EPTThat said, I'm certainly not voting for Pan for mayor. Mayor is a late-game position... we need to keep those 3 votes in townie hands as long as physically possible.
TL Mafia XXXVIII - Page 27
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
That said, I'm certainly not voting for Pan for mayor. Mayor is a late-game position... we need to keep those 3 votes in townie hands as long as physically possible. | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
Sorry! | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote: both those points are dumb you're mafia i'm like 80% sure How exactly are the assassins going to prey upon our bodyguards effectively? They don't have contact with the Mafia, their own tools deprecate when used on non-assassin targets, and any open action they make to try to gain some sort of edge leaves them vulnerable to Protactinium who would be invulnerable and able to kill them. The point about him being able to sell bodyguards out is a little easier to see. I still think the benefits outweigh any possible negative, even if he were to try to double agent his way to victory. I agree with DrH on this early call. I think you're trying to guide us into a defensive position, which with 4 KP a night out there I don't want to be caught up in. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:15 urashimakt wrote: How exactly are the assassins going to prey upon our bodyguards effectively? They don't have contact with the Mafia, their own tools deprecate when used on non-assassin targets, and any open action they make to try to gain some sort of edge leaves them vulnerable to Protactinium who would be invulnerable and able to kill them. The point about him being able to sell bodyguards out is a little easier to see. I still think the benefits outweigh any possible negative, even if he were to try to double agent his way to victory. I agree with DrH on this early call. I think you're trying to guide us into a defensive position, which with 4 KP a night out there I don't want to be caught up in. It dosn't matter how "effective" they are at hitting BGs it matters that they are going to be throwing more KP out there that are likely to hit town. While I agree that my greatest worry is not pissing off the other assassins at the moment, but rather losing a powerful town role in exchange for a dt check, (which is nice) and two kills (which have as much potential to hit town as scum, especially since our "friendly" assassin is going to probably go after whichever suggestions he finds most likely to be other assassins) Its not worth giving a powerful pro town role to someone who does not have our best interests at heart. I say NO to giving a pro-town role to a non-town person | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:15 urashimakt wrote: How exactly are the assassins going to prey upon our bodyguards effectively? They don't have contact with the Mafia, their own tools deprecate when used on non-assassin targets, and any open action they make to try to gain some sort of edge leaves them vulnerable to Protactinium who would be invulnerable and able to kill them. The point about him being able to sell bodyguards out is a little easier to see. I still think the benefits outweigh any possible negative, even if he were to try to double agent his way to victory. I agree with DrH on this early call. I think you're trying to guide us into a defensive position, which with 4 KP a night out there I don't want to be caught up in. sell bodyguards out for what? so they can kill him? there is absolutely no reason an assassin mayor would want mafia to know the identity of bodyguards and the mafia really have no incentive to kill him either. if i'm mafia and the mayor is an assassin I'm still thinking I want to kill: 1. good scumhunters 2. detectives 3. doctors 4. veterans/bodyguards in that order that's kind of a wacko situation imo | ||
Mig
United States4714 Posts
On April 10 2011 13:59 Kavdragon wrote: Oh man, Protact, you just made my day. That was brilliant, but not quite thought through enough. The biggest problem, first and foremost, is that other assassins will be gunning for our body guards if you were Mayor/Pardoner. You may have two KP you are willing to lend us, but is it worth it if all the other assassins are going to be attacking townies because of it? Another problem is that putting you in the position of Pardoner OR mayor would give you information about the bodyguards, something that would be quite valuable to the mafia. Since your win condition is not the same as our, I don't think that it would be wise for us to trust you with that information. I loved the idea when I first read it, because I was thinking about how the assassins don't have a conflict of interest with the town, so it'd be great to get them working for us, but the problem becomes that we have to pick one of you to work with. That will set all the others against the town, and that counteracts the usefulness in a pretty big way. I do think making an assassin the mayor would turn the other assassins against the town but they are still extremely limited in what they can do since they only have 3 kills to use. But the 2nd point doesn't make any sense at all. What motive could the assassin possibly have to tell the mafia who the body guards were? The assassin would need to protect his bodyguards just as much as anyone. As long as his body guards are alive hes free to hunt the other assassins without there being any threat to his well being. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:23 GMarshal wrote: It dosn't matter how "effective" they are at hitting BGs it matters that they are going to be throwing more KP out there that are likely to hit town. While I agree that my greatest worry is not pissing off the other assassins at the moment, but rather losing a powerful town role in exchange for a dt check, (which is nice) and two kills (which have as much potential to hit town as scum, especially since our "friendly" assassin is going to probably go after whichever suggestions he finds most likely to be other assassins) Its not worth giving a powerful pro town role to someone who does not have our best interests at heart. I say NO to giving a pro-town role to a non-town person I was thinking this earlier: -before this, assassins only have incentive to kill other assassins -now assassins have incentive to kill bodyguards -it means nothing to the town of protactinium is killed -we have no way to force him to use his powers in a pro-town way. are we really going to waste a lynch on him just because he won't hit who the town tells him to? so this basically shifts assassin KP against us, I've changed my mind. | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:23 GMarshal wrote: It dosn't matter how "effective" they are at hitting BGs it matters that they are going to be throwing more KP out there that are likely to hit town. While I agree that my greatest worry is not pissing off the other assassins at the moment, but rather losing a powerful town role in exchange for a dt check, (which is nice) and two kills (which have as much potential to hit town as scum, especially since our "friendly" assassin is going to probably go after whichever suggestions he finds most likely to be other assassins) Its not worth giving a powerful pro town role to someone who does not have our best interests at heart. I say NO to giving a pro-town role to a non-town person I don't think the other assassins (if they're wise) are going to be throwing KP at town. It just wouldn't be an effective way to achieve their win condition unless they knew who the bodyguards are, which they aren't going to. As far as giving a powerful green role to a black, I don't agree. He has no reason to pardon anyone that we wouldn't, as far as I can tell. He does, however, bring abilities to the table that I think are more powerful than the pardon. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I was thinking this earlier: -before this, assassins only have incentive to kill other assassins -now assassins have incentive to kill bodyguards -it means nothing to the town of protactinium is killed -we have no way to force him to use his powers in a pro-town way. are we really going to waste a lynch on him just because he won't hit who the town tells him to? so this basically shifts assassin KP against us, I've changed my mind. i realize this was basically kavdragons first point but I don't like the way he phrased it. I don't think the assassins will be "gunning" for townies but rather trying to kill eachother off and wait until the late game to deal with protactinium, but it still puts us in a weird late game situation and I'd rather avoid that. as far as the assassin game, I'd prefer if the town treated it pretty much with complete indifference | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
##vote chaoser | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:28 urashimakt wrote: I don't think the other assassins (if they're wise) are going to be throwing KP at town. It just wouldn't be an effective way to achieve their win condition unless they knew who the bodyguards are, which they aren't going to. As far as giving a powerful green role to a black, I don't agree. He has no reason to pardon anyone that we wouldn't, as far as I can tell. He does, however, bring abilities to the table that I think are more powerful than the pardon. Let me be utterly honest here if I were an assassin and another assassin got elected I would probably say "fuck this" and start gunning for townies out of frustration. Or worse, trying to help the mafia snipe the bgs so I could have a shot at my target. One way an assassin could do this is by detecting a BG with his DT ability and then giving out that information. And yes he has reasons to pardon someone who we would not, lets say the second place person in a vote is someone who he thinks is an assassin he'll happily pardon the first place to get the other person hanged, and potentially win. Also we have no way to make him use his abilities for us, lets say he uses his KP on whoever the fuck he wants, what are we going to do waste a lynch on him and give the mafia another free round of kills? No, more likely than not we'll say "damn you, shoot who we want" and let him live, because we cannot afford to waste a lynch. or if we do lynch him we helped the scum team, congratulations a true lose/lose situation This is a BAD IDEA, we want townies in power, not assassins who are out only for themselves. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:35 DoctorHelvetica wrote: medics shouldn't protect protactinium just let him die lol what a douche... | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On April 10 2011 14:34 GMarshal wrote: Let me be utterly honest here if I were an assassin and another assassin got elected I would probably say "fuck this" and start gunning for townies out of frustration. Or worse, trying to help the mafia snipe the bgs so I could have a shot at my target. One way an assassin could do this is by detecting a BG with his DT ability and then giving out that information. And yes he has reasons to pardon someone who we would not, lets say the second place person in a vote is someone who he thinks is an assassin he'll happily pardon the first place to get the other person hanged, and potentially win. Also we have no way to make him use his abilities for us, lets say he uses his KP on whoever the fuck he wants, what are we going to do waste a lynch on him and give the mafia another free round of kills? No, more likely than not we'll say "damn you, shoot who we want" and let him live, because we cannot afford to waste a lynch. or if we do lynch him we helped the scum team, congratulations a true lose/lose situation This is a BAD IDEA, we want townies in power, not assassins who are out only for themselves. While I still think that any assassin playing to win (which should be all of them) going around on a green killing spree is a ridiculous assumption, I agree with everything else and I change my mind. You should say the good stuff first all the time, mate. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
here is my "policy" mayor: -use my votes on whoever i think is scummiest not who the "town" tells me to vote for -lynch kavdragon on day 1 pardoner: -pardon whoever i think is getting lynched on a dumb bandwagon even if the rest of the town is pretty sure they are scum that's it also as far as the assassin game like i said we should post who we suspect of being an assassin so they dont kill townies but 90% of posts in this thread should be geared toward finding mafia so really i think this game should be kinda disregarded unless it becomes important later i have a bad reputation of getting too much attention in games though but i came pretty close to nailing the entire scumteam in salem and in insane mafia so i think i'll just get better every game vote 4 me | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
why he isn't town so who cares if he is dead other assassins just kill him medics should protect big town targets and try to block mafia kp, not assassin kp | ||
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
Anyways, since there's no voting thread, I guess we sit tight for a bit? And read over posts, of course. | ||
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