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On February 23 2011 17:20 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 13:19 GMarshal wrote:
for arguments sake going to create analysis cells, use them for informational analysis
(even assuming I were scum there is no way) I could ensure each has a mafia member in it as there isn't enough mafia to go around (I am trying to put at least 1 TL vet in each) as the game progresses and people die we can have new cells form. (also you are free to create your own parallel cells)
1. Coagulation, LSB, gryffindor
2 GMarshal, seRapH, OriginalName
3 Mr. Wiggles, ICanFlyLow, kevconsim
4 Barundar, LastArgument , why
5 darmousseh, Ser Aspi, Kenpachi
6 Gofarman, chaoser, ohN
7 astroorion, CubEdIn, Jackal58
8 Beneather, annul, Conversion
9 icemac, Foolishness, LunarDestiny
10 deconduo, kitaman27, JBright
This is just a suggestion, but I think it is a good one, discuss Can you explain why this is a bad idea gryff? Your previous posts on why it's bad (weird, can lead to role reversal) don't really cut it. Roles aren't being revealed and people don't have to follow the list. Isn't it just making this 30 man game into many team mini games? Also, would being in a group with a mafia help a townie or not? More interactions in a more private setting might mean more likely for mafia to fuck up
Easily.
It leads to the sharing of information, which the mafia need in this setup to properly use their abilities of role reversing the town into submission, as opposed to straight up kill power.
If they know you are a Veteran, they can make you a PGO
We don't need cells, we have claiming
If you want scumhunting, do it yourself
The general plan for a town in a whisper/PM setup is
1) Wait on a confirm
2) Massclaim to the confirmed
3) Profit
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Going to bed now, some last thoughts
+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 17:12 gryffindor wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 17:08 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 16:58 Coagulation wrote:
this early in the game.. and with this level of pressure... mafia tend to wait and jump on town formed bandwagons.. i cant see mafia rising up and starting a bandwagon at this point. Yeah, there's a lot of accusations flying around already that mafia can choose whichever to bandwagon. What I'd watch out for, is people who start to heavily push someone else's suspicion of a player, or who start to tunnel really hard.From my experience, this early in the game, that can indicate scum. QFT It is relative to who, though. Certain players doing that would be null
Yes, there are some aggressive players, but even still, this shouldn't be enough to get them off the hook depending how they play it. I'm remembering my first game, XXXV, where annul tunneled really hard day 1 and ended up getting LSB lynched, he almost got away with it too, with people simply putting it down to tunnel vision and aggression. Turned out he was mafia and chosen GF.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 17:20 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 13:19 GMarshal wrote:
for arguments sake going to create analysis cells, use them for informational analysis
(even assuming I were scum there is no way) I could ensure each has a mafia member in it as there isn't enough mafia to go around (I am trying to put at least 1 TL vet in each) as the game progresses and people die we can have new cells form. (also you are free to create your own parallel cells)
1. Coagulation, LSB, gryffindor
2 GMarshal, seRapH, OriginalName
3 Mr. Wiggles, ICanFlyLow, kevconsim
4 Barundar, LastArgument , why
5 darmousseh, Ser Aspi, Kenpachi
6 Gofarman, chaoser, ohN
7 astroorion, CubEdIn, Jackal58
8 Beneather, annul, Conversion
9 icemac, Foolishness, LunarDestiny
10 deconduo, kitaman27, JBright
This is just a suggestion, but I think it is a good one, discuss Can you explain why this is a bad idea gryff? Your previous posts on why it's bad (weird, can lead to role reversal) don't really cut it. Roles aren't being revealed and people don't have to follow the list. Isn't it just making this 30 man game into many team mini games? Also, would being in a group with a mafia help a townie or not? More interactions in a more private setting might mean more likely for mafia to fuck up
I think it depends on the strengths of the players involved. A problem is if you get circles dominated by one veteran, because it firstly defeats the purpose of the circle, and secondly gives scum a good outlet to manipulate town behind the scenes. I think it will only work if everyone in the circle is contributing, and also isn't afraid of being frank and honest.
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On February 23 2011 17:26 gryffindor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:20 chaoser wrote:On February 23 2011 13:19 GMarshal wrote:
for arguments sake going to create analysis cells, use them for informational analysis
(even assuming I were scum there is no way) I could ensure each has a mafia member in it as there isn't enough mafia to go around (I am trying to put at least 1 TL vet in each) as the game progresses and people die we can have new cells form. (also you are free to create your own parallel cells)
1. Coagulation, LSB, gryffindor
2 GMarshal, seRapH, OriginalName
3 Mr. Wiggles, ICanFlyLow, kevconsim
4 Barundar, LastArgument , why
5 darmousseh, Ser Aspi, Kenpachi
6 Gofarman, chaoser, ohN
7 astroorion, CubEdIn, Jackal58
8 Beneather, annul, Conversion
9 icemac, Foolishness, LunarDestiny
10 deconduo, kitaman27, JBright
This is just a suggestion, but I think it is a good one, discuss Can you explain why this is a bad idea gryff? Your previous posts on why it's bad (weird, can lead to role reversal) don't really cut it. Roles aren't being revealed and people don't have to follow the list. Isn't it just making this 30 man game into many team mini games? Also, would being in a group with a mafia help a townie or not? More interactions in a more private setting might mean more likely for mafia to fuck up Easily. It leads to the sharing of information, which the mafia need in this setup to properly use their abilities of role reversing the town into submission, as opposed to straight up kill power. If they know you are a Veteran, they can make you a PGO We don't need cells, we have claiming If you want scumhunting, do it yourself The general plan for a town in a whisper/PM setup is 1) Wait on a confirm 2) Massclaim to the confirmed 3) Profit
Part 3 is more like
"pray you dont get raped by GF"
MASSCLAIM IS NOT THE WAY TO GO FOLKS.
REMEMBER SALEM thats all i gotta say.
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It leads to the sharing of information, which the mafia need in this setup to properly use their abilities of role reversing the town into submission, as opposed to straight up kill power.
Except in this situation if the groups are known publicly, then a blue getting dicked over by role reversal will immediately give town two very big suspects in the form of his circle mates. There's some pitfalls in the plan obviously, but i can see it working if we play it right. It cuts down on lurking/inactivity too and that's usually a big help. Also, why am I not on your list =[
Do you have a plan for town and can you comment on foolishness' statement about now anyone asking for his opinion means they're mafia?
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CHAOSER DONT WORRY BUD YOU CAN BE ON MY LIST
COAGS LIST
chaoser
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OK LAWL YOU CAN BE ON MY LIST TOO!!!
VOTE COAGULATION
OOPS!
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On February 23 2011 17:06 gryffindor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 16:52 LunarDestiny wrote:@gryffindor Ser Aspi attempted to make a well formulated case after putting an FoS out on me. I'm not mafia, so if he was mafia, I would expect him to have done that differently. It could be WIFOM off of an associative tell, but I'm not sure if he's good enough to do that. Given that I doubt he wasn't genuine, and I like that he is attempting to create a bandwagon, I'm comfortable with him in my town category. I didn't want to just put "town", as it can be misleading. People will be moving up and down on my list as their play improves/degrades. You are saying that Ser Aspi read you as mafia and tried to convince town and not sucessful in doing do. While I agree that mafia won't recklessly risk themselves at leading lynches, I believe that they want to form a quick bandwagon on town. But you also said Ser Aspi tried to create a bandwagon which is what mafia wants to do. That should be a scum tell instead of a defense why he is town. No, he made a well formulated case (on someone else, the person he is voting...),"after putting an F.o.S. on me" should then read as "after making a post addressing inconsistencies he had with me" This isn't what happened, either, so not only are you not brushed up on the topic in the voting thread, apparently you don't read the one with words in it either. You have moved down my list, to somewhere in between neutral and leaning. Shape it up or ship it out.
Ser Aspi attempted to make a well formulated case after putting an FoS out on me.
This is exactly what you said. Then you say that it isn't what happened exactly.
So you put in misinformation on purpose to catch people off guard. Also you can get away with it because afterward you say that it is done on purpose.
If your kind of play is classify as a pro town move, then mafia can use this excuse to slip away after getting caught. Your posts got a lot of lies in them if you keep this up. I know there are pro town lies but consistent lying will just degrade the value of your posts.
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'sup gueyz?
Just got to work. So I won't post much now. More to come tonight.
I did get to skim through the thread a bit and I must say I love the idea of being placed in a cell with Jackal after what we did in Mafia 36. 
But yeah I don't think "cells" are a good idea. If you are sharing sensitive information, mafia may know a great deal of it. If you are not, then they don't really have much use. Using the thread for throwing around ideas is much more useful as it can uncover scum faster in case of a slip.
Also, Mafia could do things like killing one/two people out of a cell where there's no mafia, and if they flip blue then town will think that the remaining member(s) have to be mafia. And stuff like that.
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On February 23 2011 18:01 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:06 gryffindor wrote:On February 23 2011 16:52 LunarDestiny wrote:@gryffindor Ser Aspi attempted to make a well formulated case after putting an FoS out on me. I'm not mafia, so if he was mafia, I would expect him to have done that differently. It could be WIFOM off of an associative tell, but I'm not sure if he's good enough to do that. Given that I doubt he wasn't genuine, and I like that he is attempting to create a bandwagon, I'm comfortable with him in my town category. I didn't want to just put "town", as it can be misleading. People will be moving up and down on my list as their play improves/degrades. You are saying that Ser Aspi read you as mafia and tried to convince town and not sucessful in doing do. While I agree that mafia won't recklessly risk themselves at leading lynches, I believe that they want to form a quick bandwagon on town. But you also said Ser Aspi tried to create a bandwagon which is what mafia wants to do. That should be a scum tell instead of a defense why he is town. No, he made a well formulated case (on someone else, the person he is voting...),"after putting an F.o.S. on me" should then read as "after making a post addressing inconsistencies he had with me" This isn't what happened, either, so not only are you not brushed up on the topic in the voting thread, apparently you don't read the one with words in it either. You have moved down my list, to somewhere in between neutral and leaning. Shape it up or ship it out. Ser Aspi attempted to make a well formulated case after putting an FoS out on me.This is exactly what you said. Then you say that it isn't what happened exactly. So you put in misinformation on purpose to catch people off guard. Also you can get away with it because afterward you say that it is done on purpose. If your kind of play is classify as a pro town move, then mafia can use this excuse to slip away after getting caught. Your posts got a lot of lies in them if you keep this up. I know there are pro town lies but consistent lying will just degrade the value of your posts.
You just typed 3 paragraphs about how I didn't correctly use a comma, and you are still misrepresenting what I said; learn how to read.
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On February 23 2011 17:46 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +It leads to the sharing of information, which the mafia need in this setup to properly use their abilities of role reversing the town into submission, as opposed to straight up kill power. Except in this situation if the groups are known publicly, then a blue getting dicked over by role reversal will immediately give town two very big suspects in the form of his circle mates. There's some pitfalls in the plan obviously, but i can see it working if we play it right. It cuts down on lurking/inactivity too and that's usually a big help. Also, why am I not on your list =[ Do you have a plan for town and can you comment on foolishness' statement about now anyone asking for his opinion means they're mafia?
it's hard to read you
i guess i'll put you in neutral?
everyone else is just a lack of a good read, so neutral
sorry.
I believe what you're talking about would just lead to WIFOM. Lurkers/inactives will be that way regardless of what cell they're in. I don't see how that is a valid point.
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'Just finished catching up
My thoughts:
Cells are a good idea but GMarshal giving us predetermined groups that he thinks we should work with is pretty scummy. They weren't just like 1-3, 4-6 either, he moved them around to his liking.
Not a good candidate for day1 lynch because I don't feel that that alone is enough to incriminate him but definitely FoS on him.
I dont see how people think
+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 12:40 chaoser wrote:
Ok, so like Gmarshal said, we shouldn't depend on blues this game. Especially since RoL specifically said this game was to punish us for what happened in Salam. At the same thing, I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about. PMs are allowed but PLEASE don't just give out crazy info in them (roleclaim, etc.). The point of town is not to have 1 leader controlling everything but small circles that are separated so that if one goes down, the others can still operate. Let's all work together and not let a few players handle all the work (which always seems to happen). This means contributing pleaseee.
Him noting that mafia isn't that powerful is something anybody could point out. Role reversal has huge potential but only if mafia has a confirmed blue. They still have to give up an entire kp to use it so they will not be open to using it without being absolutely sure. Role reversal on a townie does nothing except waste a kp.
I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't posted anything useful or that guy who thought annul was inactive(lol).
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Oh yeah and gryff claiming vet?
wtf why would you do that?
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initial reads, volume 3:
+ Show Spoiler +people to keep alive:
gryffindor
foolishness
kenpachi
ser aspi
ohN
leaning town:
LastArgument (you're thinking, WUT?, but i'll explain if questioned)
MrWiggles
neutral:
coagulation
chaoser
leaning scum:
lunardestiny
GMarshal
Lynch, Lynch, Lynch:
accidentally "edited" a post a page ago, however, I didn't change a single thing intentionally. It was a mistake, as I was just retrieving that list to update it.
@ohN, reaction test
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On February 23 2011 19:14 gryffindor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 18:01 LunarDestiny wrote:On February 23 2011 17:06 gryffindor wrote:On February 23 2011 16:52 LunarDestiny wrote:@gryffindor Ser Aspi attempted to make a well formulated case after putting an FoS out on me. I'm not mafia, so if he was mafia, I would expect him to have done that differently. It could be WIFOM off of an associative tell, but I'm not sure if he's good enough to do that. Given that I doubt he wasn't genuine, and I like that he is attempting to create a bandwagon, I'm comfortable with him in my town category. I didn't want to just put "town", as it can be misleading. People will be moving up and down on my list as their play improves/degrades. You are saying that Ser Aspi read you as mafia and tried to convince town and not sucessful in doing do. While I agree that mafia won't recklessly risk themselves at leading lynches, I believe that they want to form a quick bandwagon on town. But you also said Ser Aspi tried to create a bandwagon which is what mafia wants to do. That should be a scum tell instead of a defense why he is town. No, he made a well formulated case (on someone else, the person he is voting...),"after putting an F.o.S. on me" should then read as "after making a post addressing inconsistencies he had with me" This isn't what happened, either, so not only are you not brushed up on the topic in the voting thread, apparently you don't read the one with words in it either. You have moved down my list, to somewhere in between neutral and leaning. Shape it up or ship it out. Ser Aspi attempted to make a well formulated case after putting an FoS out on me.This is exactly what you said. Then you say that it isn't what happened exactly. So you put in misinformation on purpose to catch people off guard. Also you can get away with it because afterward you say that it is done on purpose. If your kind of play is classify as a pro town move, then mafia can use this excuse to slip away after getting caught. Your posts got a lot of lies in them if you keep this up. I know there are pro town lies but consistent lying will just degrade the value of your posts. You just typed 3 paragraphs about how I didn't correctly use a comma, and you are still misrepresenting what I said; learn how to read.
My post was about you posting misinformation and using the excuse of catching people off guard.
I'll analyze line by line:
No, he made a well formulated case (on someone else, the person he is voting...),"after putting an
F.o.S. on me" should then read as "after making a post addressing inconsistencies he had with me"
This says
"Ser Aspi post reason why Chaoser is scum and vote Chaoser after he placed F.o.S. on you"
SHOULD BE READ AS
"Ser Aspi post reason why Chaoser is scum and vote Chaoser after he finds inconsistencies in your post"
I am find with this part because you further describe his F.o.S. on you.
This isn't what happened, either, so not only are you not brushed up on the topic in the voting thread, apparently you don't read the one with words in it either.
You say "this isn't what happened." Either you and I are reading Ser Aspi differently or you are using misinformation to catch people off guard. This is what I was referring to as your misinformation.
No comment on the parts below.
Now your turn to disect my previous post and explain about what exactly didn't happened.
You are saying that Ser Aspi read you as mafia and tried to convince town and not sucessful in doing do. While I agree that mafia won't recklessly risk themselves at leading lynches, I believe that they want to form a quick bandwagon on town.
But you also said Ser Aspi tried to create a bandwagon which is what mafia wants to do. That should be a scum tell instead of a defense why he is town.
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I disagree.
Mafia will bandwagon, or let town vote town. They're not going to stack votes unless it is Lylo and they absolutely have to. They'd rather sit back, and let us tear each others throats open, which we are doing by not coming to a mutual understanding that we are just not understanding each other. I didn't mean to feed you any misinformation, and I felt it was a misinterpretation... first on your part, and then on mine realizing that you sort of understood what I meant.
I'm taking our argument to be town on town, due to the sheer amount of confusion I have in what you're trying to say exactly.
Do you agree with me that our arguing could have simply been a misunderstanding?
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GENERAL WARNING: Please stop spamming. Holy shit. You guys literally just did more than a page an hour while I was asleep. I have gotten some complaints about the spam, so please condense your posting and avoid senseless posts. While I reread I will try to PM some of the offenders to let them know.
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On February 23 2011 17:21 gryffindor wrote:
@Mod: You say the blue font is off limits, but what if I am making a list of power roles and need to use it momentarily, is it acceptable on a word-to-word basis and not like I am doing now with the color green?
This is acceptable. Besides, I bold my font.
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On February 23 2011 17:25 gryffindor wrote:
@mod: If a Veteran is visited by a Framer/Lawyer, and Role Reversal is substituted for KP, would said visit still enact the kill clause? I know it would if it was a town power role, but would scum visiting do this?
Thanks
Like I said, game is designed to punish the town. If a vet lets his role get known then he deserves to only cost 1.5 KP for his death. The kill would still happen
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United States22154 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:21 ohN wrote:'Just finished catching up My thoughts: Cells are a good idea but GMarshal giving us predetermined groups that he thinks we should work with is pretty scummy. They weren't just like 1-3, 4-6 either, he moved them around to his liking. Not a good candidate for day1 lynch because I don't feel that that alone is enough to incriminate him but definitely FoS on him. I dont see how people think + Show Spoiler +On February 23 2011 12:40 chaoser wrote:
Ok, so like Gmarshal said, we shouldn't depend on blues this game. Especially since RoL specifically said this game was to punish us for what happened in Salam. At the same thing, I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about. PMs are allowed but PLEASE don't just give out crazy info in them (roleclaim, etc.). The point of town is not to have 1 leader controlling everything but small circles that are separated so that if one goes down, the others can still operate. Let's all work together and not let a few players handle all the work (which always seems to happen). This means contributing pleaseee. is scummy. Him noting that mafia isn't that powerful is something anybody could point out. Role reversal has huge potential but only if mafia has a confirmed blue. They still have to give up an entire kp to use it so they will not be open to using it without being absolutely sure. Role reversal on a townie does nothing except waste a kp. I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't posted anything useful or that guy who thought annul was inactive(lol).
If you want feel free to RNG the groups, I just made it so each group had at least one veteran player so that new players could get good feedback, if you want you could slide one of the columns up or down a random number to change the groups around
also
On February 23 2011 17:20 gryffindor wrote:
Easily.
It leads to the sharing of information, which the mafia need in this setup to properly use their abilities of role reversing the town into submission, as opposed to straight up kill power.
If they know you are a Veteran, they can make you a PGO
We don't need cells, we have claiming
If you want scumhunting, do it yourself
The general plan for a town in a whisper/PM setup is
1) Wait on a confirm
2) Massclaim to the confirmed
3) Profit
I have issues with this post of your gryffindor, 1 it looks suspiciously like the plan that ended up with town getting raped in salem, 2 what benfit do you get from a mass claim when the DTs can be easily fooled? All the other roles don't require any kind of exposure as Vigi and Hatters can use their own discretion and medics should have clear cut choices. What does mass claiming to a "confirmed" (you still haven't set out a mechanism to confirm a townie) do for them other than expose them to getting hit by mafia?
Also I agree that if you want scumhunting you should do it yourself, but like many other things it benefits from peer review, again this is partially to stimulate activity as in PM games newer players often feel left out of the backstage conversations and post less for that reason, its extremely frustrating in that situation.
Also assuming the setup is 5-7 mafia they still have 3-4 kill points which is average for a 30 person game, this means that they don't need to use their role reversing powers successfully to win, they just need to slaughter the town, if they can do that by using role reversal then it will be faster, but ultimately they don't have to.
TBH I think you are town, I just think your plan would cost us the game if we were to follow it
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On February 23 2011 17:26 gryffindor wrote:
Easily.
It leads to the sharing of information, which the mafia need in this setup to properly use their abilities of role reversing the town into submission, as opposed to straight up kill power.
If they know you are a Veteran, they can make you a PGO
We don't need cells, we have claiming
If you want scumhunting, do it yourself
On February 23 2011 18:51 CubEdIn wrote:
But yeah I don't think "cells" are a good idea. If you are sharing sensitive information, mafia may know a great deal of it. If you are not, then they don't really have much use. Using the thread for throwing around ideas is much more useful as it can uncover scum faster in case of a slip.
PMs are a town weapon. The fact that multiple people are discouraging their use is concerning. Town should be able to extract information from mafia, not the other way around. You force the scum to give an opinion when you directly contact them 1:1. People complain that mafia have too much influence through PMs. How about you use that against them and identify the motives behind what they are saying instead? I don't like the idea of being told which two people I should talk to, but I certainly wouldn't advocate keeping all discussion in the thread.
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EPT
