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On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started.
Nemesis, activity was a big problem in the last two standard games.
In XXXV, the town was stupid and killed off the people doing the analysis, and left themselves with a whole bunch of inactives
In XXXIV, all the active people were killed, and lylo we were stuck with about 5 people who barely didn't get modkilled.
Inactivity won't be as much of a problem in a mini mafia, however it is something we have to worry about. Remember, if we don't kill the inactives now, they will just drag us down and lose us the game.
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On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you agreeing with the lynching of lurkers or do you see another option? Is there another option than pressuring and eventually lynching them? Things to look out for regarding lurkers is people like zeks in pyp3, who didn’t post much, but always posted game related stuff, ie. he was following the thread without contributing.
Indeed, saying things without actually contributing is a great way to find a mafia. An inactive may actually help, but a lurker just repeats nothing.
On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:
##Vote Nemesis
Nemesis wasn't here for the inactive games. So I don't fault him for not knowing the dangers of inactives.
On January 21 2011 02:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now as for day 1, until someone royally messes up this will be a FoS game. For the people giving advice to blues, that is cool thing to do, but with this set of players we should all know the game by now let alone feels like forced activity.
I don't see much wrong with forced activity.
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Since everyone seems to be piping up, I shall take on the role of Devil's Advocate. Note that the current situation is 8-3. Assuming nothing happens with town keep failing lynches:
8-3
6-3
4-3
That is 2 ML available to eliminate 3 mafia. If vig misfires the available mislynch decreases to 1. Holy jeez, I'd love to have been stuck with F11 setup with these odds. Random bantering aside I am questioning that whether it is wise to religiously throw away one of these valuable lynch opportunity in banner of activity. Of course inactivity is hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell) but it should not be given greater weight than ordinary accusation even in day 1. At least the latter would help draw towns discussion more toward post of actual players.
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United States22154 Posts
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie.
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Hesmyrr, you played Pokemafia and you probably know how badly activity screwed over the town.
Of course, remember, the activity lynch is just something we should consider as an alternative to the top scummy target of day one. If the day one lynch is actually good, rather than a bunch of random screaming that doesn't make sense, I'm all for lynching the mafia.
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On January 21 2011 02:57 LSB wrote:
Hesmyrr, you played Pokemafia and you probably know how badly activity screwed over the town.
Of course, remember, the activity lynch is just something we should consider as an alternative to the top scummy target of day one. If the day one lynch is actually good, rather than a bunch of random screaming that doesn't make sense, I'm all for lynching the mafia.
I just wanted to note that inactivity issue should be treated with less emphasis in small roster setup (Mini-mafia) like this.
Will try to look for fos suspects I can post about later on.
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On January 21 2011 02:23 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 02:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now as for day 1, until someone royally messes up this will be a FoS game. For the people giving advice to blues, that is cool thing to do, but with this set of players we should all know the game by now let alone feels like forced activity. I don't see much wrong with forced activity.
In my experience someone who does it now usually manages to slip by as hiding red longer then they should. Activity is good if its constructive and useful, but when 3-4 people start talking about how blues should operate I get concerned.
Keep in mind this is because in times long gone talking about blues usually revolved around making lists for medic prots, and lists for dt checks, etc... which at least force people to pipe up and agree or disagree, whereas at the moment its generic rehashed stuff everyone should know. I do however think the links you made two the newbie guide/last game to show why its needed was awesome.
Activity should not be forced as it comes off that way, if you want to force someone to post, just FoS them, or analyze a few of their posts and force them out of their shell, that way their activity won't be forced, and lets you get a read on them.
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On January 21 2011 02:57 GMarshal wrote:
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie.
Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects)
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On January 21 2011 04:27 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 02:57 GMarshal wrote:
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie. Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects)
Hmm, what do you mean? Wouldn't abstaining mean it takes us longer to reach lylo? it'll take 4 deaths to reach lylo. If we lynch every day then we reach lylo after two days and two nights. If we abstain then we reach lylo after four days and four nights.
Not that I'm advocating abstaining. But I'd think the problem with abstaining is that it hands the kills to the mafia instead of letting town get their turn.
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Well yeah, if we abstain twice, sure lylo will be extended a day. But wasting two lynches is a really bad idea, and as you said it yourself, if we abstain, we can't really go after the mafia.
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On January 21 2011 04:27 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 02:57 GMarshal wrote:
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie. Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects)
Assuming we have docs. Or DTs or anything. I'm assuming we are all green with a sprinkling of red. Any blues that can confirm their roles as the game goes along is a bonus. But I'm going on the premise we have none. Looking for blue help in XXXV killed us. I won't make that particular mistake again.
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On January 21 2011 04:53 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 04:27 LSB wrote:On January 21 2011 02:57 GMarshal wrote:
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie. Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects) Hmm, what do you mean? Wouldn't abstaining mean it takes us longer to reach lylo? it'll take 4 deaths to reach lylo. If we lynch every day then we reach lylo after two days and two nights. If we abstain then we reach lylo after four days and four nights. Not that I'm advocating abstaining. But I'd think the problem with abstaining is that it hands the kills to the mafia instead of letting town get their turn.
The problem with abstaining is that we basically let mafia have a free turn. Rather than voting, and therefore collecting vital information and discussion, no one is lynched, and we end up on day 2 being none the wiser. It's basically as if we started on day 2.
Whether it postpones lylo for one night cycle is really irrelevant, as losing that vital lynch just for an extra night cycle(which won't mean anything if we don't get through that without town getting hurt), is not even an even trade.
Speaking of which: Vigi's do NOT use your ability until town declares a consensus on that. We don't need a townie dead because you decided to be a "hero."
Speaking of, I want people to start voting Shockkey as well as nemesis. Shockkey has barely contributed with a real post, I want to see that from him.
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United States22154 Posts
Well, at least that sparked discussion, I fully agree that abstaining is wasting one of our most valuable resources as town. I just though I would throw it out there to generate some discussion. I fully agree with the idea that vigi's need to save their shots until a good target is presented.
Nemesis I want to hear more from you, what is your opinion on not lynching on the first day? How do you think vigi's should act (if we have any) should they follow the town consensus (Acting almost as a double lynch) or is that too prone to be influenced by mafia?
(anyone else can feel free to answer these questions, I'm just poking Nemesis in particular)
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[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
[quote]Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game.[/QUOTE]
Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now.
And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home.
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The problem with abstaining is that we basically let mafia have a free turn. Rather than voting, and therefore collecting vital information and discussion, no one is lynched, and we end up on day 2 being none the wiser. It's basically as if we started on day 2.
I've thought about how if there were blue roles like DT or medic then longer time till LYLO via abstaining is actually better for town. But that assumes there are even blue roles to begin with and like others have said, dependence of blue roles is bad. Feel like that's why mafia win so often on TL Mafia. Town either tries to hatch some sort of plan or PM circles get formed too easily or everyone is inactive till a blue comes out and is like "HI! I'M BLUE! ANALYZE THIS!".
That being said, I feel like we should focus on a small set of players a day instead of making it a 5 person accusation clusterfuck. So many times I've been in a game where town had done that. 4-5 people who aren't even mafia start accusing each other and mafia just sits back and laughs. Maybe in mini games that happens less? Post big, post less, say more please. Reading through 30 pages of back and forth spam makes me a sad (panda).
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[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
[quote]Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game.[/QUOTE]
Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now.
And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home.[/QUOTE]
You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'.
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On January 21 2011 05:19 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game. Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now. And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home. You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'.
Fixed the quote problem
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[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 05:19 GGQ wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
[quote]Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game.[/QUOTE]
Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now.
And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home.[/QUOTE]
You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'.[/QUOTE]
So we actually had a chance in the end to win as a town? But that didn't happen either way.
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On January 21 2011 05:19 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game. Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now. And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home. You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'.
So we actually had a chance in the end to win as a town? But that didn't happen either way.
JESUS
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EPT
