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![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
*flamewheel is helping me co-host this game. Any questions can be directed towards him/her or myself.
Mini Mafia IV
+ Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account / looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font:
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font:
This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules.
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Spam:
Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything
Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate.
Play to win.
You have been warned.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/18/lighting2_wideweb__470x332,0.jpg) Something burning-hot and life-ending this way comes.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Do not PM me your vote.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance.
3. No conditional voting.
4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
5. In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched.
6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain.
Signups:
This game is open to anyone with preference for proven active and non-abrasive players. Signups will remain open until all spots have been filled. The game has a target of 11-15 spots. The game is scheduled to start on Monday, January 17.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, you will get a warning in the ban thread but you will not be banned. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment.
Clues:
There are no clues.
PMs
PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a (24 hour night/48 hour) day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 11 EST, but that is subject to change.
Credits:
Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer.
Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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Roles:
Please read this section.
All Roles with night actions may act at any day. There is no night 2 restriction for vigis.
Remember, all role counts are hidden. So just because a role is listed here does not mean it is necessarily in the game!
Town Aligned Roles
Townie:
You have no special powers other than the ability to vote. But you are necessary for a town victory! So help purify the town and be active!
Detective:
You have the ability to ask for the role of a specific player. You may only use your ability once per night and you may only act at night. However, you may use your ability every night.
Medic:
You have the ability to prevent one hit on a player of your choice during the night. As 1 KP rules apply, mafia cannot kill the person you choose to protect. However, neither you nor the person you have protected will be notified if you have made a successful save. If you protect a veteran, your ability overrides the veteran's extra life. You are not allowed to protect yourself.
Vigilante:
You may, only once during the game, kill a player of your choice during the night. If your hit overlaps with mafia, your hit will be canceled and you will be able to use your hit at any future night.
Veteran:
You've been around the block a few times and know how to escape an attack on your life. You have an additional night life, which means that you must be hit twice in order to die (these two hits may either be both mafia hits or a mafia and a vigilante hit). You will also know if your extra life has been activated. If you are being protected by a medic, the medic's ability will override yours.
Miller:
You are a townie in every way except that if a DT role checks you, the DT will be told that you are a Mafia. However, you do not know that you are the Miller. Your role pm will say that you are a townie. The Miller will be revealed as a Miller upon their death. The miller is on the side of the Townies, and wins if they win.
Mafia Aligned Roles
Mafia:
Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in the mafia. You may choose to kill nobody if you so choose. You MAY kill other mafia. As a whole, your KP is 1 throughout the whole game, so choose wisely! The mafia also must choose the Godfather from among themselves. If they do not choose by night 1, I will randomly choose for you.
Godfather:
You are the head of the mafia, and when role checked, will show up as any role of your choice. You must choose before Day 1 is over, otherwise I will randomly choose for you.
Roleblocker:
Once per night, you may send in a PM detailing a person you would like to block. That person will be notified that they were blocked, and if the person being blocked has a night action, he or she will not be able to use it. Please note that this ability only pertains to active actions. Passive abilities, such as the Veteran's extra lives, cannot be blocked by mafia.
Player List:
1. Jackal58
2. Barundar
3. Hesmyrr
4. BloodyC0bbler Vigilante Modkilled Day 1
5. ShoCkeyy Day 1
6. Pandain
7. GGQ
8. Chaoser
9. Nemesis
10. GMarshal
11. LSB Night 1
8 of 11 players remain
? of ? Detectives remain
? of ? Medics remain
? of ? Vigilante remain
? of ? Veterans remain
3 of 3 Mafia remain (this includes the Godfather)
? of ? Roleblocker remains
1 of 1 Godfather remains
? of ? Townies remain (This includes all town-aligned players)
Role PM Examples:
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome to Mini Mafia IV! Your role is: TowniePM Incognito if you have any questions about your role. Welcome to Mini Mafia IV! Your role is: Blue RolePM Incognito if you have any questions about your role. Welcome to Mini Mafia IV! Your role is: MafiaYour team consists of: 1. Ver2. Incognito3. ChuiuPM Incognito if you have any questions about your role.
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Reserved. And now TL auto stops people from double posting? Interesting...
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/In
If you'll have me. 
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
How many people you allowing in for this?
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On January 15 2011 18:54 Incognito wrote:
Reserved. And now TL auto stops people from double posting? Interesting...
really?!
Edit: 
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On January 16 2011 05:20 Foolishness wrote:
How many people you allowing in for this?
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United States1967 Posts
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/in I guess
how many slots are avaialable?
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United States1967 Posts
/out
cant play in this one, maybe next
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Tentative Player List:
1. Jackal58
2. Barundar
3. Hesmyrr
4. Coagulation
5. ShoCkeyy
6. Pandain
7. GGQ
8. Chaoser
9. Nemesis
10. GMarshal
11.
Need more players. At least 1 more, but up to 5 more. Game will start Wednesday or when we get enough players. Flamewheel is cohosting.
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United States22154 Posts
/in hopefully I can afford to be really active this game
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Btw, this game I will be playing more of a helper style. I'll offer good advice regardless of my alignment as a way to try to bring the level of TL mafia up before XXXVI starts.
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Tentative Player List:
1. Jackal58
2. Barundar
3. Hesmyrr
4. BloodyC0bbler
5. ShoCkeyy
6. Pandain
7. GGQ
8. Chaoser
9. Nemesis
10. GMarshal
11. LSB
Game will start in a 40 minutes.
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Remember that there are NO PMs in this game.
There is also no separate voting thread.
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so did day start yet? or are we waiting for day post?
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Please do not go inactive, it only hurts town. We need input and ideas and opinions on people from everyone to prevent mafia from passive play. Even the silliest opinions are better for us than them, since it gives the rest of town something to work with. Every contribution counts.
Let's win this one.
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United States22154 Posts
I think we are waiting for a day post
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Ok lol, I just want to know exactly when day ends so I don't mess up like I did in lose yo mafia lol and get modkilled cause I read times wrong
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![[image loading]](http://www.designfloat.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/City-of-Angels.jpg)
Day 1
Due to a coffee spillage, the day post got wrecked. The only readable parts said:
Qatol the Lawyer is dead
Incognito the Townie is dead
Flamewheel the Godfather is dead
It is now day 1. You have 48 hours to decide on who to lynch. Good luck! You'll need it. Muahahahaha
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United States22154 Posts
Alright, so just to start some discussion, I feel that for our first day lynch we should try to lynch an inactive, unless we can force someone to reveal themselves as scum. It is important that we force discussion, and lots of it, as of late inactive town/mafia have been the doom of the town.
I would discuss what possible roles we might have, but that information is really limited (read, we have no idea which if any roles we have) . I think that it would be a good idea to assume that we have no blues, as it has happened in the past, and in that way we make no stupid assumptions about medic protects, or having DTs checking people. Also as usual, don’t claim unless it is a critical juncture of the game, or it guarantees a scum kill or two.
Just in case we do have blues I feel like their general pattern of activity should be for DTs to check inactives (so we don’t waste lynches on them). Vigis should save their hits until we actually have a target for them. Medics should protect whoever the most outspoken/obviously town player is. Again, I think we should operate under the assumption that we don’t have any blues untill we get proof that we do (e.g. a failed hit due to medic or vet, and additional kill from a vigi, etc)
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All right, lets get this started
Lesson number Zero, read the Newbie guide
www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180405
Lesson number one, learn from your mistakes
Most of you come from XXXVI. Are you going to do the same thing you did then?
NO! Improving at mafia is like starcraft, you analyize what you did wrong and fix it.
Things town did wrong
1. Lynch people for being to smart. Shouting down Insasious, killing rol, killing Seraph. Comeon town. If someone is smart, listen to them. Don't stick your fingers in your ears and go "blahblahblahblah"
2. Relying too much on DTs (I'll get to this later) and town circles. They don't work, unless the game is broken. This game isn't broken
3. Not doing your own analysis, and letting the mafia do it for you. Actually read the thread guys, and do your own thinking
DTs
DTs are not a replacement for analysis. They only suppliment analysis.
DTs, please claim only if
1. You have found red
2. It is close to lylo and one of your greens (plural, not singular) is about to be lynched
3. It is lylo.
Town, don't rely on DTs. Mafia is an easy game. As long as the town isn't stupid it wins.
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On January 20 2011 13:05 GMarshal wrote:
lynch an inactive, unless we can force someone to reveal themselves as scum.
I'm cool with this
I feel like their general pattern of activity should be for DTs to check inactives (so we don’t waste lynches on them). Vigis should save their hits until we actually have a target for them. Medics should protect whoever the most outspoken/obviously town player is. Again, I think we should operate under the assumption that we don’t have any blues untill we get proof that we do (e.g. a failed hit due to medic or vet, and additional kill from a vigi, etc)
I agree. Lets make this the town plan for the game.
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United States22154 Posts
I'm not surprised you agree, as these are essentially the ideas you presented in MiniMafia III, I borrowed them as they seemed like a good plan. I hope you don't mind too much.
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Np, saves me the effort of (litterally) copypasting it. Thanks!
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I'd like to recommend re-reading the whole thread throughout the game. In XXV I re-read the thread after every new day post to see what new insights I could glean after seeing what people flipped from the lynch and night kills. It may be time-consuming, but it gives you a much clearer picture of what's going on.
Also, please stay caught up with the thread... just read new posts whenever you get the chance. Once you fall behind, it's much easier to just write the game off and go inactive. Let's not do that.
I agree with the idea of lynching an inactive unless obvious scum turns up day one. If we had lynched our chosen inactive on day one in XXV (Brocket), we would have hit a red. Of course, you won't always get that lucky, but it's better than lynching an active townie.
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On January 20 2011 13:47 LSB wrote:
All right, lets get this started
Lesson number Zero, read the Newbie guide
www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180405
Lesson number one, learn from your mistakes
Most of you come from XXXVI. Are you going to do the same thing you did then?
NO! Improving at mafia is like starcraft, you analyize what you did wrong and fix it.
Things town did wrong
1. Lynch people for being to smart. Shouting down Insasious, killing rol, killing Seraph. Comeon town. If someone is smart, listen to them. Don't stick your fingers in your ears and go "blahblahblahblah"
2. Relying too much on DTs (I'll get to this later) and town circles. They don't work, unless the game is broken. This game isn't broken
3. Not doing your own analysis, and letting the mafia do it for you. Actually read the thread guys, and do your own thinking
DTs
DTs are not a replacement for analysis. They only suppliment analysis.
DTs, please claim only if
1. You have found red
2. It is close to lylo and one of your greens (plural, not singular) is about to be lynched
3. It is lylo.
Town, don't rely on DTs. Mafia is an easy game. As long as the town isn't stupid it wins.
I learned a lot from that game. Biggest mistake town made was lynching actives. Lurkers beware.
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We didn't actually lynch that many active in that game - lsb being the exception, but it cost them the godfather. Rol getting vigi'd was terrible though...
What does everyone think of the plan proposed by gmarshal? No blue talk and lynching of inactives untill something better comes up? Personally i feel we are neglecting an important subject that can make people open their mouth this way.
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On January 20 2011 20:15 Barundar wrote:
We didn't actually lynch that many active in that game - lsb being the exception, but it cost them the godfather. Rol getting vigi'd was terrible though...
What does everyone think of the plan proposed by gmarshal? No blue talk and lynching of inactives untill something better comes up? Personally i feel we are neglecting an important subject that can make people open their mouth this way.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you agreeing with the lynching of lurkers or do you see another option?
Personally I think if the people that wish to lurk understand that their inactivity is a death sentence they will post. Their posts may be all fluff and no stuff but they will post.
I'm on board with gmarshal. You don't have to beat me over the head twice to get my attention. XXXV was enough. If you're blue good for you. If you feel compelled to make a claim good for you. If you feel compelled to make a false claim you will be lynched as soon as we find out about it.
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@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started.
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On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started.
I would argue that lynching the most active players on day 1 is a mistake. Unless of course active player A states "I am scum" which probably isn't going to happen.
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On January 20 2011 22:24 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I would argue that lynching the most active players on day 1 is a mistake. Unless of course active player A states "I am scum" which probably isn't going to happen.
Duh, of course lynching the most active player day 1 is not the best idea ever (I suggested lynching inactives), but I am saying that we shouldn't be afraid to lynch active players.
We shouldn't focus too much on what blues should do. We don't know what blue roles there are and blues will do what they think is best anyways. We should just focus more on scumhunting than whatever blue plans.
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Seconding the opinion that discussing town PR action is rather pointless, since the setup isn't themed or anything. Trying to direct their actions just open up tons of WIFOM on the later days.
Is lynching inactives good idea? Hum, let me throw down the gauntlet.
##Vote BloodyC0bbler
check the thread faster 
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On January 20 2011 22:04 Jackal58 wrote:
Their posts may be all fluff and no stuff but they will post.
I'd actually want less fluff and have players post less but bigger posts cause mafia can easily blend into a whole group of people writing fluff and then we're fucked. If everyone is writing big posts then mafia is hard pressed to write big posts too and so if they write small posts they stick out like a sore thumb. If they write long posts there's more a change they'll mess up and give themselves away. Either way they react, we win. Right now the main thing we're looking for is for everyone to "check in" with a post. When does day end lol? Mad scared lol
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On January 20 2011 23:18 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:04 Jackal58 wrote:
Their posts may be all fluff and no stuff but they will post. I'd actually want less fluff and have players post less but bigger posts cause mafia can easily blend into a whole group of people writing fluff and then we're fucked. If everyone is writing big posts then mafia is hard pressed to write big posts too and so if they write small posts they stick out like a sore thumb. If they write long posts there's more a change they'll mess up and give themselves away. Either way they react, we win. Right now the main thing we're looking for is for everyone to "check in" with a post. When does day end lol? Mad scared lol
That's kinda what I was getting at. It is in Mafias best interest to say nothing. To remain non committal when they do say something. If lynching inactives forces them to post then it is actually easier for town to look at whose lips are moving but not saying anything.
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So these are the peeps that have yet to speak:
4. BloodyC0bbler
5. ShoCkeyy
6. Pandain
So to get my fellow super secret friendship club member to speak up
#Vote: Pandain =]]
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Meh, the games start really late at night and i work in the morning, so of course i can't post much since im using my phone to do this. Either way trying to see who talks the most and says the stupidest things before i start voting.
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Making a list of inactives this early is kindof silly, especially since the game started rather late in US time, and most people have classes or work during the day.
On the other hand, I support any form of activity. In an awnser to Barunders concern about not talking about blues. Yes talking about blues is an easy day 1 discussion starter (we are doing that now), but past day one, be wary about people talking about blues. Talking about blues is a great way to stay non-commital and an easy way for the mafia to say nothing.
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I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you agreeing with the lynching of lurkers or do you see another option?
Is there another option than pressuring and eventually lynching them? Things to look out for regarding lurkers is people like zeks in pyp3, who didn’t post much, but always posted game related stuff, ie. he was following the thread without contributing.
On the other hand, I support any form of activity. In an awnser to Barunders concern about not talking about blues. Yes talking about blues is an easy day 1 discussion starter (we are doing that now), but past day one, be wary about people talking about blues. Talking about blues is a great way to stay non-commital and an easy way for the mafia to say nothing.
Yup I’m trying to create some discussion – GM’s plan won’t be worth much if it’s just him suggesting it and you agreeing.
One major difference between this game and mafia xxxv is we don’t have PM’s, so we won’t have the same problem with town circles. This however means you can’t just be active scumhunting in PM land, you need to post your thoughts in the thread.
Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game.
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On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you agreeing with the lynching of lurkers or do you see another option? Is there another option than pressuring and eventually lynching them? Things to look out for regarding lurkers is people like zeks in pyp3, who didn’t post much, but always posted game related stuff, ie. he was following the thread without contributing.
I agree. That's what I meant by fluff. Day 1 will be harder to tell who's lurking but by day two it should begin to be apparent.
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Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks!
In other news, just some general thoughts:
1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo.
2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving.
##Vote Nemesis
On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started.
What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives.
Plus I want to see more contribution.
Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving.
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On January 20 2011 22:46 Hesmyrr wrote:Seconding the opinion that discussing town PR action is rather pointless, since the setup isn't themed or anything. Trying to direct their actions just open up tons of WIFOM on the later days. Is lynching inactives good idea? Hum, let me throw down the gauntlet. ##Vote BloodyC0bblercheck the thread faster
check the thread faster? There were 4-5 posts when I went to bed at 2am. Nothing to talk about then nothing to talk about.
However, your first and only post into the game day is not a FoS but a vote? aren't you brave. Pretty well a guarentee that I won't be inactive, and anyone worried of such a happenstance should take a gander over to the other game I'm in.
Now as for day 1, until someone royally messes up this will be a FoS game. For the people giving advice to blues, that is cool thing to do, but with this set of players we should all know the game by now let alone feels like forced activity.
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On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started.
Nemesis, activity was a big problem in the last two standard games.
In XXXV, the town was stupid and killed off the people doing the analysis, and left themselves with a whole bunch of inactives
In XXXIV, all the active people were killed, and lylo we were stuck with about 5 people who barely didn't get modkilled.
Inactivity won't be as much of a problem in a mini mafia, however it is something we have to worry about. Remember, if we don't kill the inactives now, they will just drag us down and lose us the game.
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On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you agreeing with the lynching of lurkers or do you see another option? Is there another option than pressuring and eventually lynching them? Things to look out for regarding lurkers is people like zeks in pyp3, who didn’t post much, but always posted game related stuff, ie. he was following the thread without contributing.
Indeed, saying things without actually contributing is a great way to find a mafia. An inactive may actually help, but a lurker just repeats nothing.
On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:
##Vote Nemesis
Nemesis wasn't here for the inactive games. So I don't fault him for not knowing the dangers of inactives.
On January 21 2011 02:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now as for day 1, until someone royally messes up this will be a FoS game. For the people giving advice to blues, that is cool thing to do, but with this set of players we should all know the game by now let alone feels like forced activity.
I don't see much wrong with forced activity.
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Since everyone seems to be piping up, I shall take on the role of Devil's Advocate. Note that the current situation is 8-3. Assuming nothing happens with town keep failing lynches:
8-3
6-3
4-3
That is 2 ML available to eliminate 3 mafia. If vig misfires the available mislynch decreases to 1. Holy jeez, I'd love to have been stuck with F11 setup with these odds. Random bantering aside I am questioning that whether it is wise to religiously throw away one of these valuable lynch opportunity in banner of activity. Of course inactivity is hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell) but it should not be given greater weight than ordinary accusation even in day 1. At least the latter would help draw towns discussion more toward post of actual players.
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United States22154 Posts
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie.
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Hesmyrr, you played Pokemafia and you probably know how badly activity screwed over the town.
Of course, remember, the activity lynch is just something we should consider as an alternative to the top scummy target of day one. If the day one lynch is actually good, rather than a bunch of random screaming that doesn't make sense, I'm all for lynching the mafia.
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On January 21 2011 02:57 LSB wrote:
Hesmyrr, you played Pokemafia and you probably know how badly activity screwed over the town.
Of course, remember, the activity lynch is just something we should consider as an alternative to the top scummy target of day one. If the day one lynch is actually good, rather than a bunch of random screaming that doesn't make sense, I'm all for lynching the mafia.
I just wanted to note that inactivity issue should be treated with less emphasis in small roster setup (Mini-mafia) like this.
Will try to look for fos suspects I can post about later on.
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On January 21 2011 02:23 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 02:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now as for day 1, until someone royally messes up this will be a FoS game. For the people giving advice to blues, that is cool thing to do, but with this set of players we should all know the game by now let alone feels like forced activity. I don't see much wrong with forced activity.
In my experience someone who does it now usually manages to slip by as hiding red longer then they should. Activity is good if its constructive and useful, but when 3-4 people start talking about how blues should operate I get concerned.
Keep in mind this is because in times long gone talking about blues usually revolved around making lists for medic prots, and lists for dt checks, etc... which at least force people to pipe up and agree or disagree, whereas at the moment its generic rehashed stuff everyone should know. I do however think the links you made two the newbie guide/last game to show why its needed was awesome.
Activity should not be forced as it comes off that way, if you want to force someone to post, just FoS them, or analyze a few of their posts and force them out of their shell, that way their activity won't be forced, and lets you get a read on them.
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On January 21 2011 02:57 GMarshal wrote:
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie.
Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects)
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On January 21 2011 04:27 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 02:57 GMarshal wrote:
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie. Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects)
Hmm, what do you mean? Wouldn't abstaining mean it takes us longer to reach lylo? it'll take 4 deaths to reach lylo. If we lynch every day then we reach lylo after two days and two nights. If we abstain then we reach lylo after four days and four nights.
Not that I'm advocating abstaining. But I'd think the problem with abstaining is that it hands the kills to the mafia instead of letting town get their turn.
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Well yeah, if we abstain twice, sure lylo will be extended a day. But wasting two lynches is a really bad idea, and as you said it yourself, if we abstain, we can't really go after the mafia.
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On January 21 2011 04:27 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 02:57 GMarshal wrote:
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie. Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects)
Assuming we have docs. Or DTs or anything. I'm assuming we are all green with a sprinkling of red. Any blues that can confirm their roles as the game goes along is a bonus. But I'm going on the premise we have none. Looking for blue help in XXXV killed us. I won't make that particular mistake again.
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On January 21 2011 04:53 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 04:27 LSB wrote:On January 21 2011 02:57 GMarshal wrote:
At this point all we have to work on is forced activity, as we don't have all that much to discuss (more now that people have started posting). I mean we could talk about GSL, but I don't think that will bring us any closer to finding scum (actually looking at the rules, we couldn't so nvm). So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure.
##Vote Nemesis
Also, I just realized something relevant, according to the rules "In the event of a tie nobody will be lynched." which means if we dont want to risk killing a townie the first day we can always force a tie. Abstaining is bad because it brings us closer to lylo (Assuming that the doctors don't make their protects) Hmm, what do you mean? Wouldn't abstaining mean it takes us longer to reach lylo? it'll take 4 deaths to reach lylo. If we lynch every day then we reach lylo after two days and two nights. If we abstain then we reach lylo after four days and four nights. Not that I'm advocating abstaining. But I'd think the problem with abstaining is that it hands the kills to the mafia instead of letting town get their turn.
The problem with abstaining is that we basically let mafia have a free turn. Rather than voting, and therefore collecting vital information and discussion, no one is lynched, and we end up on day 2 being none the wiser. It's basically as if we started on day 2.
Whether it postpones lylo for one night cycle is really irrelevant, as losing that vital lynch just for an extra night cycle(which won't mean anything if we don't get through that without town getting hurt), is not even an even trade.
Speaking of which: Vigi's do NOT use your ability until town declares a consensus on that. We don't need a townie dead because you decided to be a "hero."
Speaking of, I want people to start voting Shockkey as well as nemesis. Shockkey has barely contributed with a real post, I want to see that from him.
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United States22154 Posts
Well, at least that sparked discussion, I fully agree that abstaining is wasting one of our most valuable resources as town. I just though I would throw it out there to generate some discussion. I fully agree with the idea that vigi's need to save their shots until a good target is presented.
Nemesis I want to hear more from you, what is your opinion on not lynching on the first day? How do you think vigi's should act (if we have any) should they follow the town consensus (Acting almost as a double lynch) or is that too prone to be influenced by mafia?
(anyone else can feel free to answer these questions, I'm just poking Nemesis in particular)
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[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
[quote]Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game.[/QUOTE]
Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now.
And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home.
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The problem with abstaining is that we basically let mafia have a free turn. Rather than voting, and therefore collecting vital information and discussion, no one is lynched, and we end up on day 2 being none the wiser. It's basically as if we started on day 2.
I've thought about how if there were blue roles like DT or medic then longer time till LYLO via abstaining is actually better for town. But that assumes there are even blue roles to begin with and like others have said, dependence of blue roles is bad. Feel like that's why mafia win so often on TL Mafia. Town either tries to hatch some sort of plan or PM circles get formed too easily or everyone is inactive till a blue comes out and is like "HI! I'M BLUE! ANALYZE THIS!".
That being said, I feel like we should focus on a small set of players a day instead of making it a 5 person accusation clusterfuck. So many times I've been in a game where town had done that. 4-5 people who aren't even mafia start accusing each other and mafia just sits back and laughs. Maybe in mini games that happens less? Post big, post less, say more please. Reading through 30 pages of back and forth spam makes me a sad (panda).
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[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
[quote]Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game.[/QUOTE]
Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now.
And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home.[/QUOTE]
You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'.
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On January 21 2011 05:19 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game. Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now. And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home. You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'.
Fixed the quote problem
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[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 05:19 GGQ wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
[quote]Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game.[/QUOTE]
Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now.
And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home.[/QUOTE]
You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'.[/QUOTE]
So we actually had a chance in the end to win as a town? But that didn't happen either way.
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On January 21 2011 05:19 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game. Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now. And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home. You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'.
So we actually had a chance in the end to win as a town? But that didn't happen either way.
JESUS
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Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first
Staying low doesn't help the town. I wasn't in that game but is active players were being killed off by mafia, I don't think that's a bad thing, it just means the active players are getting somewhere with what they were saying. The point of the game isn't to stay alive but to help town win. I'd take my death over inactivity that leads to town loss any day.
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On January 21 2011 05:22 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:19 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game. Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now. And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home. You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'. So we actually had a chance in the end to win as a town? But that didn't happen either way.
How does that help you win as a town? Even if you survive to the endgame, you'll have no credibility because you haven't been active.
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United States22154 Posts
On January 21 2011 05:23 chaoser wrote:Staying low doesn't help the town. I wasn't in that game but is active players were being killed off by mafia, I don't think that's a bad thing, it just means the active players are getting somewhere with what they were saying. The point of the game isn't to stay alive but to help town win. I'd take my death over inactivity that leads to town loss any day.
I fully agree with this, its the townies job to go like lambs to the slaughter so that they can gather enough data to figure out who mafia is. I understand the urge to survive, but really as town its our goal to get as much information as possible, even if it means dying to gather it.
Also on a somewhat unrelated note, I saw the "FBI targets mafia" thread and this is the mafia I thought of.
Also quote tags are fun 
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On January 21 2011 02:53 Hesmyrr wrote:
Since everyone seems to be piping up, I shall take on the role of Devil's Advocate. Note that the current situation is 8-3. Assuming nothing happens with town keep failing lynches:
8-3
6-3
4-3
That is 2 ML available to eliminate 3 mafia. If vig misfires the available mislynch decreases to 1. Holy jeez, I'd love to have been stuck with F11 setup with these odds. Random bantering aside I am questioning that whether it is wise to religiously throw away one of these valuable lynch opportunity in banner of activity. Of course inactivity is hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell) but it should not be given greater weight than ordinary accusation even in day 1. At least the latter would help draw towns discussion more toward post of actual players.
I believe scum KP is 1/night if I am reading the OP correctly.
Am I right or did I miss something?
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On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisShow nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving.
Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day.
As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze.
##Vote Shockeyy
I haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners.
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I haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners.
To be fair, he's at work and can only post via his cell. Just saying.
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On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners.
I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it.
First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do.
When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored.
If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond.
IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond.
Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post.
Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill.
This is typical mafia to me.
I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch.
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On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:
I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it.
First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do.
When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored.
If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond.
IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond.
Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post.
Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill.
This is typical mafia to me.
I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch.
I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. There have been games where inactivity lost town the game. And I'm not talking about people being active and then becoming inactive. I'm talking about inactives staying inactive. Town doesn't want to waste lynches on them past day one and then you get like 3-4 inactives just sitting around at the end of the game making it almost impossible to weed out the last 2-3 mafia that are hiding within their ranks.
Also, you're talking about semantics. Whether we mean inactive or lurker, inactive means they ain't posting and so from the point of view of the town, it's the same thing, a bad thing. Its like our policy to lynch millers. Doesn't matter if they are real mafia or not, if someone comes up as red, its better to lynch them than not to.
Saying we're going to lynch inactive might not do anything but voting and pressuring them will get them to post so your point on that is wrong too. If they are truly "inactive", as in they are away from the comp, they won't come defend themselves and we can get a sense of whether they are "inactive" or a "lurker" as you put it.
I'm actually weary of people who go "omg he wants to lynch inactive, he's mafia!" Everyone knows what people mean when they say lets lynch inactive day one, it's just a way to generate discussion. Most games start with people saying lynch inactive. And most of the time they're not mafia. Why did you jump to quickly to say he's mafia? We got a whole day left and not everyone has said anything yet.
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On January 21 2011 07:11 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:
I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it.
First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do.
When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored.
If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond.
IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond.
Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post.
Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill.
This is typical mafia to me.
I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. There have been games where inactivity lost town the game. And I'm not talking about people being active and then becoming inactive. I'm talking about inactives staying inactive. Town doesn't want to waste lynches on them past day one and then you get like 3-4 inactives just sitting around at the end of the game making it almost impossible to weed out the last 2-3 mafia that are hiding within their ranks. Also, you're talking about semantics. Whether we mean inactive or lurker, inactive means they ain't posting and so from the point of view of the town, it's the same thing, a bad thing. Its like our policy to lynch millers. Doesn't matter if they are real mafia or not, if someone comes up as red, its better to lynch them than not to. Saying we're going to lynch inactive might not do anything but voting and pressuring them will get them to post so your point on that is wrong too. If they are truly "inactive", as in they are away from the comp, they won't come defend themselves and we can get a sense of whether they are "inactive" or a "lurker" as you put it. I'm actually weary of people who go "omg he wants to lynch inactive, he's mafia!" Everyone knows what people mean when they say lets lynch inactive day one, it's just a way to generate discussion. Most games start with people saying lynch inactive. And most of the time they're not mafia. Why did you jump to quickly to say he's mafia? We got a whole day left and not everyone has said anything yet.
Did you just say this? :p
I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat.
Again, we want to pressure people to POST, not lynch the inactives. There is a HUGE difference between those two. We want to pressure the inactives and lynch the lurkers, not lynch the inactives themselves. Remember, mafia aren't inactive, they're lurking.
Inactives are those who are bored, who don't care about the game, who don't have time.
Lurkers are the ones who are watching yet don't contribute.
Differentiating between those will make or break it for the town. We can't just lynch all the inactives and hope for the best.
As of right now, I want Shockkey to post, but am giving him time. Meanwhile there is someone who might be scum and slipped up. There's no point not pressuring the person at the very least.
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On January 21 2011 07:11 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:
I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it.
First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do.
When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored.
If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond.
IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond.
Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post.
Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill.
This is typical mafia to me.
I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. There have been games where inactivity lost town the game. And I'm not talking about people being active and then becoming inactive. I'm talking about inactives staying inactive. Town doesn't want to waste lynches on them past day one and then you get like 3-4 inactives just sitting around at the end of the game making it almost impossible to weed out the last 2-3 mafia that are hiding within their ranks. Also, you're talking about semantics. Whether we mean inactive or lurker, inactive means they ain't posting and so from the point of view of the town, it's the same thing, a bad thing. Its like our policy to lynch millers. Doesn't matter if they are real mafia or not, if someone comes up as red, its better to lynch them than not to. Saying we're going to lynch inactive might not do anything but voting and pressuring them will get them to post so your point on that is wrong too. If they are truly "inactive", as in they are away from the comp, they won't come defend themselves and we can get a sense of whether they are "inactive" or a "lurker" as you put it. I'm actually weary of people who go "omg he wants to lynch inactive, he's mafia!" Everyone knows what people mean when they say lets lynch inactive day one, it's just a way to generate discussion. Most games start with people saying lynch inactive. And most of the time they're not mafia. Why did you jump to quickly to say he's mafia? We got a whole day left and not everyone has said anything yet.
We will have a better idea of who is truly inactive by tomorrow afternoon. That is when I will cast my vote. I have no desire to be in another game where the only person I talk to for the last 3 days is myself.
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On January 21 2011 07:16 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 07:11 chaoser wrote:On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:
I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it.
First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do.
When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored.
If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond.
IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond.
Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post.
Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill.
This is typical mafia to me.
I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. There have been games where inactivity lost town the game. And I'm not talking about people being active and then becoming inactive. I'm talking about inactives staying inactive. Town doesn't want to waste lynches on them past day one and then you get like 3-4 inactives just sitting around at the end of the game making it almost impossible to weed out the last 2-3 mafia that are hiding within their ranks. Also, you're talking about semantics. Whether we mean inactive or lurker, inactive means they ain't posting and so from the point of view of the town, it's the same thing, a bad thing. Its like our policy to lynch millers. Doesn't matter if they are real mafia or not, if someone comes up as red, its better to lynch them than not to. Saying we're going to lynch inactive might not do anything but voting and pressuring them will get them to post so your point on that is wrong too. If they are truly "inactive", as in they are away from the comp, they won't come defend themselves and we can get a sense of whether they are "inactive" or a "lurker" as you put it. I'm actually weary of people who go "omg he wants to lynch inactive, he's mafia!" Everyone knows what people mean when they say lets lynch inactive day one, it's just a way to generate discussion. Most games start with people saying lynch inactive. And most of the time they're not mafia. Why did you jump to quickly to say he's mafia? We got a whole day left and not everyone has said anything yet. Did you just say this? :p Show nested quote +I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. Again, we want to pressure people to POST, not lynch the inactives. There is a HUGE difference between those two. We want to pressure the inactives and lynch the lurkers, not lynch the inactives themselves. Remember, mafia aren't inactive, they're lurking. Inactives are those who are bored, who don't care about the game, who don't have time. Lurkers are the ones who are watching yet don't contribute. Differentiating between those will make or break it for the town. We can't just lynch all the inactives and hope for the best. As of right now, I want Shockkey to post, but am giving him time. Meanwhile there is someone who might be scum and slipped up. There's no point not pressuring the person at the very least.
Don't include me in your "we". If they aren't posting I want to kill them.
There is no difference between "lurking" and "inactive". They are one and the same. The 5 games I've read through and the one we just finished all had "inactive lurkers" at the end that were scum.
Why wait?
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On January 21 2011 07:16 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 07:11 chaoser wrote:On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:
I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it.
First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do.
When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored.
If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond.
IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond.
Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post.
Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill.
This is typical mafia to me.
I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. There have been games where inactivity lost town the game. And I'm not talking about people being active and then becoming inactive. I'm talking about inactives staying inactive. Town doesn't want to waste lynches on them past day one and then you get like 3-4 inactives just sitting around at the end of the game making it almost impossible to weed out the last 2-3 mafia that are hiding within their ranks. Also, you're talking about semantics. Whether we mean inactive or lurker, inactive means they ain't posting and so from the point of view of the town, it's the same thing, a bad thing. Its like our policy to lynch millers. Doesn't matter if they are real mafia or not, if someone comes up as red, its better to lynch them than not to. Saying we're going to lynch inactive might not do anything but voting and pressuring them will get them to post so your point on that is wrong too. If they are truly "inactive", as in they are away from the comp, they won't come defend themselves and we can get a sense of whether they are "inactive" or a "lurker" as you put it. I'm actually weary of people who go "omg he wants to lynch inactive, he's mafia!" Everyone knows what people mean when they say lets lynch inactive day one, it's just a way to generate discussion. Most games start with people saying lynch inactive. And most of the time they're not mafia. Why did you jump to quickly to say he's mafia? We got a whole day left and not everyone has said anything yet. Did you just say this? :p Show nested quote +I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. Again, we want to pressure people to POST, not lynch the inactives. There is a HUGE difference between those two. We want to pressure the inactives and lynch the lurkers, not lynch the inactives themselves. Remember, mafia aren't inactive, they're lurking. Inactives are those who are bored, who don't care about the game, who don't have time. Lurkers are the ones who are watching yet don't contribute. Differentiating between those will make or break it for the town. We can't just lynch all the inactives and hope for the best. As of right now, I want Shockkey to post, but am giving him time. Meanwhile there is someone who might be scum and slipped up. There's no point not pressuring the person at the very least.
You need to keep this up, you are impressing me =)
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Did you just say this?
I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat .
Do you disagree? I mean, I assume you do but like the example I listed, lynching inactives isn't a bad strat for day 1. While we might not hit mafia, we do weed out the forest that they can hide in once the game gets to late game. I'm not saying lets lynch an inactive every day, which you seem to be painting the people who have said "lynch inactive" as. I'm saying inactives are bad. I don't want inactives. I'd rather lynch one of them than going on a wild goose chase. That being said, if someone sees scummy, I'd go after them. But at this point, before everyone has even responded in the thread, a push to lynch someone is premature at best, scummy at worst. Not to say you're scum, fellow secret friendship club member =p
Also, I don't think this game will have the problem of inactively, everyone seems semi active so far =] so i am happy.
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Personally, I don't like this one line of Nemesis' post:
##Vote Shockeyy
I haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners.
Shockey already said he's at work like twice so I think it's unfair/weird for someone to be calling him out when we still got a day left.
But I'd rather wait till tomorrow when everyone has weighted in before just throwing FoS all willy nilly.
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Whether or not everyone has posted has nothing to do with whether or not Nemesis's posts are scummy. Pandain was right to call him out.
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On January 21 2011 07:39 GGQ wrote:
Whether or not everyone has posted has nothing to do with whether or not Nemesis's posts are scummy. Pandain was right to call him out.
Maybe not for you, but it does for me. I like to consolidate all the information I can get before I make a decision. I almost got kicked out of a game by BM cause I kept trying to consolidate vote lists/changes in votes.
I'd rather have people do that instead of people (mafia) jumping on a bandwagon early and just riding it to the end. I'm just scared of people being rash.
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United States22154 Posts
I think that being scared of people being rash is entirely reasonable, however it is true that Nemesis seems excessively aggressive, although it could just be a reasonable response to being the person pressured the most atm.
I'll defer judgment on Shockeyy until he gets a chance to actually post. Pandain it seems to me like your argument against nemesis might be trying just a little too hard, I understand his post seems somewhat scummy (at least that was my gut reaction to it), but I dont think its enough to go on. I would like to see how he justifies his aggressiveness though.
Also Pandain I feel like your differentiation between lurkers and inactive is mostly one of semantics, how do you propose we tell the difference between the two?
chaoser I understand the importance of being cautious and having as much information as possible, but it is also important that we point out what we feel are tells as soon as possible so that they dont become buried under a mass of posts/other issues. Its ok if you want to refrain from making any decisions based on that information till later, but its also important that we notice and point out the information when it crops up.
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Ok, I can get behind that point. I also want to hear how pandain purposes we differentiate between the two. I do agree that the aggressiveness of Nemesis against shockeyy is weird. Let's see what he say
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I'm going to ignore the Nemesis issue right now. I have made a decision on the bandwagon I want to see where it goes before I say anything.
Remember, although we are talking about lynching inactives, there are only two people I see that are in danger of being inactive. ShoCkeyy likes to lurk, and Chaoser can disappear at times (well, Chaoser had an excuse).
Lurker- Avoids positions, attention, and tries to pretend that he is contributing, but really isn't. For example, Annul was technically a lurker in XXXV (Notice that besides answering questions, he did not comment on anything else). Generally Mafia
Inactive- Doesn't post besides a "sorry, I'm inactive". Defiantly Ainti-town.
I'm cool with killing both Lurkers and Inactives. But remember, the Inactive kill is more of a policy lynch, while the Lurker kill should only accompany analysis proving that the lurker is mafia.
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On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners.
Wait, you're going to vote for me just because I was at work and clearly stated I wasn't going to be able to post till I get home? Ok let's see what you have posted so far:
On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started.
Meh, something that always gets discussed in the first day of the game. "Should we lynch inactives or not? "
On January 20 2011 22:30 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:24 Jackal58 wrote:On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I would argue that lynching the most active players on day 1 is a mistake. Unless of course active player A states "I am scum" which probably isn't going to happen. Duh, of course lynching the most active player day 1 is not the best idea ever (I suggested lynching inactives), but I am saying that we shouldn't be afraid to lynch active players. We shouldn't focus too much on what blues should do. We don't know what blue roles there are and blues will do what they think is best anyways. We should just focus more on scumhunting than whatever blue plans.
More of the same stuff everyone post on day one... When do people ever learn that this won't get you by. You're basically repeating what everyone has stated before you and will state after you.
On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners.
Now back to this... You seemed pretty active in the beginning of the game and then leave for about 40 post and come back instantly voting for me even though I haven't even had a chance to actually type anything. Great job... You just gained a lot more suspicion to yourself than anybody else could. Either way, I'm not voting till tomorrow, but for now I'm going to be watching you will be writing out and timing them.
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On January 21 2011 09:13 LSB wrote:
I'm going to ignore the Nemesis issue right now. I have made a decision on the bandwagon I want to see where it goes before I say anything.
Remember, although we are talking about lynching inactives, there are only two people I see that are in danger of being inactive. ShoCkeyy likes to lurk, and Chaoser can disappear at times (well, Chaoser had an excuse).
Lurker- Avoids positions, attention, and tries to pretend that he is contributing, but really isn't. For example, Annul was technically a lurker in XXXV (Notice that besides answering questions, he did not comment on anything else). Generally Mafia
Inactive- Doesn't post besides a "sorry, I'm inactive". Defiantly Ainti-town.
I'm cool with killing both Lurkers and Inactives. But remember, the Inactive kill is more of a policy lynch, while the Lurker kill should only accompany analysis proving that the lurker is mafia.
I'm going to try and be as active as possible this game since I don't really have to fly out of town, lol... But either way, I usually lurk in the mornings while I'm at work to try and keep up with the thread.
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Let's take a look at this for a moment shall we? Pandain was all about lurkers in XXXV.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2010 04:49 Pandain wrote:Okay seems like roughly 8 people have voted for me. I find that slightly disturbing and random but okay, I will defend myself? I wasn't even sure what to defend myself about but lets go forward. But first, I'd like to congragulate everyone and helping keep this thread so far much better than others, with long posts and everything. Fadoodle yeah! But going forward, I still see no reason to vote me. So far I have been doing what I do every game, that is, getting town in a postive way forward with content oriented posts. What I'm doing actually isn't so much getting more analysis(although it is), its encouraging an atmosphere of contribution and thought. I voted Mr. Wiggles because he hadn't really been contributing, he had just been spamming. But lately he has actively been contributing with long well thought out posts. Mission accomplished. I voted Jackal for the same reason, but actually am inclined now to vote for someone else with his excuse, but will actively be pressuring him in PM land to contribute more so. Jackal, that's why your being voted. Contribute more and I'll lay off you.But as I was reading, Lunar destiny was right. What if they're just afk? Then we could just spend a whole day voting osmeone but they won't even read the thread to be able to respond! Which is partly why I'm unvoting jackal as of now. I will be looking for someone else to vote. You guys are voting me. I urge you to help me in getting this town on the right track. Too many times town ends up in day 2 with nothing more than like 10 one line posts over the course of day 1, because there was just too much spam/not real discussion. So far I've been pleased with how this has been going so far. But just want to now start talking about what's currently been happening. 1.I do not think we should vote LSB. Plainly, he has been contributing alot so far, more than most of the people already. Plainly, if he is mafia, then we'll most likely catch him anyway. We should not be lynching actives, even if we have a slight suspicion that he's mafia. Obviously if we have a good inkling I suppose we should go for it(as in team melee mafia 2 incog fingered lsb day 1) but right now there's really nothing on LSB, and I wouldn't want to lynch an expierenced player. Plus there are some problems with your analysis, but I'll just name a few. 1. If you are hit, then u should claim. LSB was right. Becuase mafia can't tell if ur vet or just protected or what. 2.You're mistaking jokes for real content. (aka when lsb said coag got banned so dr. h could join) 3.The only real suspicious thing about him is his somewhat spammy nature. The most important of which being number 3, but that is certainly not a reason to lynch him when he's already contributed alot. As for the DT checks, that's more appropiate for talk during the night(less time for mafia to manipualte) but we can talk about it now. Personally I'm leaning towards checking people who "contribute without contributing." Don't just check the inactives, they're most likely bored townies. Don't just check big name players, most likely they're going to be framed/picked godfather. We should pick those who seem to be pro town, but fail to actually contribute. Obviously this can change. If you really have a good read on someone, check them But that's just some advice.
Now he's all about getting them involved. I'm not here to rehability and reintegrate. That's a different game. Is Pandain trying to make his mafia lurker nest nice and cozy?
FoS Pandain.
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Day 1 Vote Count
BloodyC0bbler (1)
Hesmyrr
Nemesis (2)
Pandain
GMarshal
ShoCkeyy (1)
Nemesis
Voting closes in 27 hours. If you see anything wrong here, please let me know.
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On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it. First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do. When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored. You are just arguing semantics here. Besides, you can't exactly tell a lurker from an inactive unless they make it obvious.If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond. IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond. Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post. If they don't respond, that does not necessarily mean that they are bored townies. Just take a look at TMM3. Subversion(he was red that game) claimed he was roleblocked, and then disappeared afterwards. There were plenty of FoS on him after that, and he was up for lynch next day, but he still didn't respond. It is pretty much impossible to tell the difference between a lurker and an inactive townie.Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill. There was pretty much nothing else that people were discussing about. I gave my opinion on what we were currently talking about. What else could I have added to the discussion? It is not like anyone else was trying to generate new topic. At least I was trying to further the discussion.
I just woke up, I was still half-asleep when I checked this forum. I rather dislike it when town loses because everyone is inactive, and when I saw Shockeyy post "sorry I'm inactive, I promise I'll be active later," I wanted to pressure him to make sure that he actually keeps his promise and doesn't disappear as soon as we forget about him.This is typical mafia to me. I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch.
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I didn't think I'd have to go in detail about this, but I guess here it goes.
In mafia, there are two different extremes of people. Those who don't post, and those who do. The active, and the inactive. Mafia will usually end up taking either one of those extremes, either posting alot but not contributing(bill murray for instance), or not posting really at all(most lurking mafia.)
There is a vital different between lurkers and inactives. Most inactives are town. Usually when people are inactive they are bored/don't have time. They didn't get a "fun" role, so just have decided to play SC2 instead of play mafia. You will NOT find mafia in the inactive category. Mafia aren't inactive, they are paying plenty of attention to the game. As you will see, they simply decide to lurk, which is different from being inactive.
Lurkers are a portion of the inactives, but different in a vital way. While inactives don't pay attention to the thread, lurkers do. Lurkers just choose NOT to post because one of mafia's favorite things to do is let each day go by, while no one has said anything. Lurkers is where you will find mafia.
Being inactive, while anti town, is not a "scummy" thing to do. Lurking, however is. That is where we must analyze. And that is where Nemesis strikes me as scummy.
Repeats old information, went for the easy lynch, and just overall strikes me as scummy. I'm not saying by any means he's 100% scum, but we should at the VERY least pressure him.
@Jackal, any concerns can be put aside by reading in the last paragraph of that post.
+ Show Spoiler +Don't just check the inactives, they're most likely bored townies. Don't just check big name players, most likely they're going to be framed/picked godfather. We should pick those who seem to be pro town, but fail to actually contribute.
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On January 21 2011 10:53 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it. First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do. When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored. You are just arguing semantics here. Besides, you can't exactly tell a lurker from an inactive unless they make it obvious.If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond. IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond. Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post. If they don't respond, that does not necessarily mean that they are bored townies. Just take a look at TMM3. Subversion(he was red that game) claimed he was roleblocked, and then disappeared afterwards. There were plenty of FoS on him after that, and he was up for lynch next day, but he still didn't respond. It is pretty much impossible to tell the difference between a lurker and an inactive townie.Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill. There was pretty much nothing else that people were discussing about. I gave my opinion on what we were currently talking about. What else could I have added to the discussion? It is not like anyone else was trying to generate new topic. At least I was trying to further the discussion.
I just woke up, I was still half-asleep when I checked this forum. I rather dislike it when town loses because everyone is inactive, and when I saw Shockeyy post "sorry I'm inactive, I promise I'll be active later," I wanted to pressure him to make sure that he actually keeps his promise and doesn't disappear as soon as we forget about him.This is typical mafia to me. I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch.
Yes? I don't see anything wrong with what he posted, it's quite true.
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Firstly I'm going to point out that there probably aren't going to be any inactives this game. But the question still stands
Pandain, why shouldn't we kill inactives?
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On January 21 2011 11:11 LSB wrote:
Firstly I'm going to point out that there probably aren't going to be any inactives this game. But the question still stands
Pandain, why shouldn't we kill inactives?
99% of time mafia do not fall into the realm of inactives. We want to find lurkers, not inactives.
Note I have always been ferevent about getting town talking, and this game should be no different. While we should pressure inactives to TALK, we should be VOTING lurkers.
For example as of now almost everyone has given a good post with the exception of shockkey. Do you really think(given 3 mafia), that mafia are going for the "inactive" role if town always says "lynch inactives."
We want to find those who seem to contribute but don't, not those who don't contribute and don't seem to either.
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Pandain all you did is define inactive/lurker. You still haven't answered how we can differentiate between them.You are just repeating the same points over and over again without really answering that question.
The only thing that we can really do is prevent everyone from heading that way in the first place by pressuring/lynching inactives.
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I didn't bother following XXXV, the game was lost on day 1. But in Pokemafia, Ocianic got by posting "I am busy" every day, as did drag_ in Mini Mafia IV.
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Note I have always been ferevent about getting town talking, and this game should be no different. While we should pressure inactives to TALK, we should be VOTING lurkers.
How exactly do you plan on pressuring inactives talk without voting them?
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Pandain, the point is, why is saying "lets kill an inactive" is a bad thing?
I'm going to say it right now.
If there are inactives, lets lynch them.
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On January 21 2011 11:17 Nemesis wrote:
Pandain all you did is define inactive/lurker. You still haven't answered how we can differentiate between them.You are just repeating the same points over and over again without really answering that question.
The only thing that we can really do is prevent everyone from heading that way in the first place by pressuring/lynching inactives.
Mafia will never go inactive if we threaten to lynch inactives. They really never do. Instead they will go "Just above" the threshhold of "contribution", while not really contributing.
As for examples?
Lurkers: Obviously paying attention, talking about unrelated stuff/not topic of debate, repeating same stuff(can fall under inactives too though so be careful), bad reasoning/mafia tells(wishy washy ness, other stuff)
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Day 1 Vote Count
BloodyC0bbler (1)
Hesmyrr
Nemesis (2)
Pandain
GMarshal
ShoCkeyy (1)
Nemesis
Pandain (1)
Chaoser
Voting closes in 25.5 hours. If you see anything wrong here, please let me know.
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Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing.
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On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing.
Go read XXXIV, or Micro Mafia IV.
That or even read XXXV. I don't know what happened at the end, but I'm assuming that inactives still lost you guys the game.
It doesn't matter, even town aligned Inactives hurt the game and Inactives in LYLO causes town loss.
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On January 21 2011 11:26 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. Go read XXXIV, or Micro Mafia IV. That or even read XXXV. I don't know what happened at the end, but I'm assuming that inactives still lost you guys the game. It doesn't matter, even town aligned Inactives hurt the game and Inactives in LYLO causes town loss.
No LSB, I lost town the game. And I was really active that game.
And you can't say "it doesn't matter". Again, we want to pressure inactives to vote, not lynch them.
Let me ask you some questions:
1.Do you think mafia will lurk, or be inactive, and why?
2.Would you rather lynch a lurker or an inactive, and why?
3.You said you had opinions on Nemesis, what is that?
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I've been dealing with inactive many many times. XXXIV was me trying to deal with inactives. Read it if you want to see how "pressuring people to vote" worked.
The town decided to off smart people instead.
The issue is who are you going to bring with you to LYLO. You aren't going to bring Shockeyy if he doesn't do anything by stare at us. You want to bring smart people who actually does analysis.
Firstly, lets set up definitions.
Lurker- Avoids positions, attention, and tries to pretend that he is contributing, but really isn't. IE Brownbear in Pokemafia
Inactive- Doesn't post besides a "sorry, I'm inactive", IE
Mafia Lurker- Lurker with in depth analysis on him proving that he is mafia. IE, Shockeyy in Pokemafia
Lurker- For example, Annul was technically a lurker in XXXV (Notice that besides answering questions, he did not comment on anything else). Generally Mafia
Inactive- . Defiantly Ainti-town.
1. Mafia does both. It is natural for mafia to lurk.
They do this because it is easy an wins game.
And inactive mafia is a mafia who doesn't want to play anymore, but is willing to show up for the team. The difference is that usually inactive townies get modkilled as they don't see any reason to actually vote
2. I'd kill both. I've explained above in a different post.
But order of
Mafia Lurker>Inactive>Lurker
3. My opinion of Nemesis is that your argument is bs and relys on purported scum-tells that aren't true.
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I think this is the extent to which either of us are going to budge.
Arguing any more will just be pointless/lead to arguments.
Moving forward, I am currently satisfied with the state of nemesis, or at least am going to wait. I have a new suspect: Hesmyrr.
On January 20 2011 22:46 Hesmyrr wrote:Seconding the opinion that discussing town PR action is rather pointless, since the setup isn't themed or anything. Trying to direct their actions just open up tons of WIFOM on the later days. Is lynching inactives good idea? Hum, let me throw down the gauntlet. ##Vote BloodyC0bblercheck the thread faster
Doesn't really say anything.
On January 21 2011 02:53 Hesmyrr wrote:
Since everyone seems to be piping up, I shall take on the role of Devil's Advocate. Note that the current situation is 8-3. Assuming nothing happens with town keep failing lynches:
8-3
6-3
4-3
That is 2 ML available to eliminate 3 mafia. If vig misfires the available mislynch decreases to 1. Holy jeez, I'd love to have been stuck with F11 setup with these odds. Random bantering aside I am questioning that whether it is wise to religiously throw away one of these valuable lynch opportunity in banner of activity. Of course inactivity is hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell) but it should not be given greater weight than ordinary accusation even in day 1. At least the latter would help draw towns discussion more toward post of actual players.
Does a common mafia tell, instead of actually analyzing just gives voting list.
On January 21 2011 03:06 Hesmyrr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 02:57 LSB wrote:
Hesmyrr, you played Pokemafia and you probably know how badly activity screwed over the town.
Of course, remember, the activity lynch is just something we should consider as an alternative to the top scummy target of day one. If the day one lynch is actually good, rather than a bunch of random screaming that doesn't make sense, I'm all for lynching the mafia. I just wanted to note that inactivity issue should be treated with less emphasis in small roster setup (Mini-mafia) like this. Will try to look for fos suspects I can post about later on.
Semi contradicts previous post that inactivity is a huge scum tell, now says we should place less emphasis on it.
Overall hasn't really said anything. For a more seasoned player, I would expect more out of him.
##Vote Hesmyrr
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On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing.
You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity...
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Hey pandain! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
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Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now?
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Shockeyy right now you are my favourite suspect. You have promised to add more in this game than last, but so far you have only added short statements, repetition of what others have said, and statements of “I will post more later”.
First real post in thread (fixed quotes for you): + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2011 00:38 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Meh, the games start really late at night and i work in the morning, so of course i can't post much since im using my phone to do this. Either way trying to see who talks the most and says the stupidest things before i start voting.
This is your first post saying you are busy. Timewise it’s posted straight after Chaoser calling you out on a list of inactives.
Second post after I call you out + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game. Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now. And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home.
First post offering content: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2011 09:24 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. Wait, you're going to vote for me just because I was at work and clearly stated I wasn't going to be able to post till I get home? Ok let's see what you have posted so far: Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. Meh, something that always gets discussed in the first day of the game. "Should we lynch inactives or not? "Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:30 Nemesis wrote:On January 20 2011 22:24 Jackal58 wrote:On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I would argue that lynching the most active players on day 1 is a mistake. Unless of course active player A states "I am scum" which probably isn't going to happen. Duh, of course lynching the most active player day 1 is not the best idea ever (I suggested lynching inactives), but I am saying that we shouldn't be afraid to lynch active players. We shouldn't focus too much on what blues should do. We don't know what blue roles there are and blues will do what they think is best anyways. We should just focus more on scumhunting than whatever blue plans. More of the same stuff everyone post on day one... When do people ever learn that this won't get you by. You're basically repeating what everyone has stated before you and will state after you. Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. Now back to this... You seemed pretty active in the beginning of the game and then leave for about 40 post and come back instantly voting for me even though I haven't even had a chance to actually type anything. Great job... You just gained a lot more suspicion to yourself than anybody else could. Either way, I'm not voting till tomorrow, but for now I'm going to be watching you will be writing out and timing them.
I like the decisiveness in this post, but there is a few problems with it. First of all you get called out, and go straight after your attacker. Secondly you aren’t adding anything to Pandain’s analysis, basicly you are just repeating his arguments. You also again mention you don’t have time to write anything, and people questioning are suspicious per default.
Next: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2011 09:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 09:13 LSB wrote:
I'm going to ignore the Nemesis issue right now. I have made a decision on the bandwagon I want to see where it goes before I say anything.
Remember, although we are talking about lynching inactives, there are only two people I see that are in danger of being inactive. ShoCkeyy likes to lurk, and Chaoser can disappear at times (well, Chaoser had an excuse).
Lurker- Avoids positions, attention, and tries to pretend that he is contributing, but really isn't. For example, Annul was technically a lurker in XXXV (Notice that besides answering questions, he did not comment on anything else). Generally Mafia
Inactive- Doesn't post besides a "sorry, I'm inactive". Defiantly Ainti-town.
I'm cool with killing both Lurkers and Inactives. But remember, the Inactive kill is more of a policy lynch, while the Lurker kill should only accompany analysis proving that the lurker is mafia. I'm going to try and be as active as possible this game since I don't really have to fly out of town, lol... But either way, I usually lurk in the mornings while I'm at work to try and keep up with the thread.
Another 1 liner promising us more, and admitting to lurking.
And lastly+ Show Spoiler +On January 21 2011 11:06 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 10:53 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it. First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do. When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored. You are just arguing semantics here. Besides, you can't exactly tell a lurker from an inactive unless they make it obvious.If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond. IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond. Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post. If they don't respond, that does not necessarily mean that they are bored townies. Just take a look at TMM3. Subversion(he was red that game) claimed he was roleblocked, and then disappeared afterwards. There were plenty of FoS on him after that, and he was up for lynch next day, but he still didn't respond. It is pretty much impossible to tell the difference between a lurker and an inactive townie.Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill. There was pretty much nothing else that people were discussing about. I gave my opinion on what we were currently talking about. What else could I have added to the discussion? It is not like anyone else was trying to generate new topic. At least I was trying to further the discussion.
I just woke up, I was still half-asleep when I checked this forum. I rather dislike it when town loses because everyone is inactive, and when I saw Shockeyy post "sorry I'm inactive, I promise I'll be active later," I wanted to pressure him to make sure that he actually keeps his promise and doesn't disappear as soon as we forget about him.This is typical mafia to me. I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. Yes? I don't see anything wrong with what he posted, it's quite true.
1 liner, doesn’t add anything.
It’s been at least 24 hours without you adding anything that hasn’t been said by others. You can’t have been working the whole time. Last game you spend tunnelling the active townie Pandain the whole game, distrubting the town discussion to a point where I considered stopping defending Pandain, just so we could go back to scumhunting. Even if you aren’t scum, I have no problem offing you on day 1.
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You also again mention you don’t have time to write anything, and people questioning are suspicious per default.
EBWODP: You also again mention you don't have time to write anything, and that people questioning you are suspecious per default.
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Good morning all. So the debate rages on. I think it's now time to start attempting to identify lurkers/inactives rather than to continue debating whether or not it's wise to do so. We appear to have a clear consensus on the issue. Having everyone on board is not a requirement since the player with the most votes wins anyways.
Shockeyy - Yes he may be at work. Yes he may be unable to post. Or he may be something else. In either case if he continues at his present rate of participation he is a detriment to us.
BloodyC0bbler - Hello!!!! You're the worst of the bunch so far.
GGQ - Your lips are moving but you're not really saying much.
I'm heading off to work. I'll catch up with you guys in a couple of hours.
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My god, you guys are still going on about dealing with inactives? You went from talking about what blues should do which is self explanatory
moved on into talking about how to deal with inactives which again, is self explanatory. Do you guys seriously just make posts for the sake of posting? You guys all should know better than this by now.
The only saving grace is that people are still posting for the sake of fitting in.
Pandain, talked about defining what a lurker and an inactive is and which we have to aim for, awesome. However this was not included with much analysis. Now its only day 1 so i'm giving him a bit of breathing room here, but if someone tells people how a game should be played, all eyes should be flickering back there periodically to make sure he's coming through.
Jackal. FoS a player based on a previous game and uses that as analysis to justify FoS them. After the crapshoot of the last game any player with a brain would have learned from it. Aside from that most posts have been fluff posts
To my eyes these are the most notable people right now playing the "fit in game" you all seem to be discussing. Which I will now also mention is a really dumb way to play day 1. Day 1 you have no idea if people are busy at work, busy with school, etc...
There is no trend in which to analyze to base their behaviour off of. Metaing the player gets you know where as you need multiple days worth of information typically to fully match them to one of their previous play styles. Anyone who continues the discussion of how to deal with inactives at this point in the game should be massive FoS. It is a moot point now and just gives the mafia an easy discussion to blend in with. You need to apply pressure to people or have a general point in which everyone would be compelled to give their piece on, yet make it much harder for a red to blend in.
Inactivity/lurkers, generic blue roles discussions don't do jack to narrow down reds.
IF you want to talk about blues you go into things like
zodiac lists
dt check lists
or the like day 1. Those generate discussion, and usually get good reactions.
However, these are my recommendations and general observations. You guys have to learn these things at some point, might as well be now.
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On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity...
And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no?
On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote:
Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now?
I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken.
And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance.
Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
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On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:
Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
Shockkey's 'semi analysis' of Nemesis was a FOS for Nemesis targeting him.
I'm going to support the Shockkey lynch because
1) Indirect FoS on Pandain.
Pandain has detracted from his initial posts on activity back in XXXV, one possible explanation could be that Pandain is on a scum team with an inactive, shockeyy.
2) He's not going to be very active anyways
3) He hasn't posted anything besides excusing himself for lurking,+ Show Spoiler +On January 21 2011 05:22 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 05:19 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 05:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 21 2011 01:30 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy, you where laying really low in mafia xxxv, I hope to see more out of you in this game. Of course I was laying low seeing as all the active kids kept dying first, because everyone in that game was so dumb to realize who were the mafia either way. I was dumb as well, but hey it happens. That game actually has showed me a lot more that the way I played mafia back in the day has changed than the way we play it now. And Pandain, if you read the thread, I clearly state I can't post till I get out of work. I will try and post from my phone as much as possible, but that is such a pain in my ass. Either way, I will post some more when I do get home. You were green, why would you need to stay alive if you weren't actively posting. That's a really bad reason for 'laying low'. So we actually had a chance in the end to win as a town? But that didn't happen either way. JESUS
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I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken.
You've spoken but all you've given is definitions and what we SHOULD do with no clear plans/idea on how we're going to even go about doing it (differentiate between town lurkers/inactives and mafia lurkers/inactives). You stated that your main goal is get town to be active which is a non-committal thing to do. Your analysis of Nemesis was pretty bad, pretty much calling him out on saying pretty much the same things everyone else was saying/everyone else usually says on Day 1 (Lynch inactives, blah blah blah). Though I do think Nemesis' over aggressiveness was a bit weird, I think your actions/posts haven't been much better. So I'm keeping my vote on you for the time being.
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Quickly dropping into say (and yes, my access to internet is currently being very wanky, enough to declare hiatus on My Starcraft translation efforts and I don't like breaking promises) I cannot understand Pandain's accusation.
Can you specify what do you mean by "a common mafia tell"? I mean, I know you say more immediately after but none of them seems to be relevant to my post. I have not mentioned any single players, so I fail to understand where you got the impression of me giving out the voting list. More importantly, I think it is clear that the post you quote is analyzing the setup to see why lynching someone b/c inactivity is a bad thing. (There is a reason why I emphasized word anti-town instead of scumtell, because as all good players know they aren't necessary the same thing)
So what you say on the next paragraph about being contradictory, doesn't hold any water.
That out of the way, since the day ends in 12 hours to my knowledge, I'll try to drop by once again during that time to see who I can vote. @Mod: If I do not make another post before the day ends, replace me.
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P.S. (treat this is continuation of my previous post, considering the green comment I just made)
I added everyone in this game to my buddy list and turned on 'Allow your Mutual Buddies to see when you're online?' thing, just to ensure people know I am not bsing.
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I mean, so you can add me to the buddy list and you can see whether I am online or not. Really going now.
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On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity... And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no?Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote:
Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now? I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance. Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
Do you really think that's a relevant reply to what I was saying? You initial point was that we shouldn't lynch inactives because mafia are never inactive. I pointed out the undeniable fact that two mafia were inactive in the last big game, proving your point wrong. Now you are trying to say we don't want to lynch inactives because they will get modkilled (which might not even happen if they're careful enough to post once or twice and vote), and you're saying it as though that was your point all along. Maybe you just weren't keeping up with the logic, but this feels sketchy to me.
Also, why so uncomfortable with having just one vote on you? Your play seems nervous to me.
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On January 22 2011 04:12 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. You've spoken but all you've given is definitions and what we SHOULD do with no clear plans/idea on how we're going to even go about doing it (differentiate between town lurkers/inactives and mafia lurkers/inactives). You stated that your main goal is get town to be active which is a non-committal thing to do. Your analysis of Nemesis was pretty bad, pretty much calling him out on saying pretty much the same things everyone else was saying/everyone else usually says on Day 1 (Lynch inactives, blah blah blah). Though I do think Nemesis' over aggressiveness was a bit weird, I think your actions/posts haven't been much better. So I'm keeping my vote on you for the time being.
I'm not just going to say "If someone does this: then I suspect them as mafia". Should I? It just seems to me that would enable mafia to easily hide from me even more.
And me thinks I've gotten town active. By accusing two people, I started discussion, got people talking, and so forth.
On January 22 2011 04:53 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity... And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no?On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote:
Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now? I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance. Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all. Do you really think that's a relevant reply to what I was saying? You initial point was that we shouldn't lynch inactives because mafia are never inactive. I pointed out the undeniable fact that two mafia were inactive in the last big game, proving your point wrong. Now you are trying to say we don't want to lynch inactives because they will get modkilled (which might not even happen if they're careful enough to post once or twice and vote), and you're saying it as though that was your point all along. Maybe you just weren't keeping up with the logic, but this feels sketchy to me. Also, why so uncomfortable with having just one vote on you? Your play seems nervous to me.
Tevo made a very long post, and actually was quite content-full when he actually contributed. Then he died on day 2. We don't know what would've happened with his activity. Furthormore, Brockett was lurking, not inactive. I'm unsure about Tevo, he may have just been inactive as well.
But as a very consistent trend those who are inactive are not mafia. While you can name two(and only really one might be inactive mafia), I can name at least 4. George clooney, soulfire, DTA, treehugger.
Seeing as I doubt I'll get any more from Hesmyrr seeing as he's going to be gone, it's time to pressure a more seasoned player.
I'm going to be voting Bloody Cobblar. He actually hasn't played anti town. But the thing is he hasn't contributed at all really to the discussion of who to lynch. He's talked about "forced activity" and "watch out for lurkers", but then hasn't done anything. I know your in another game, but you need to start posting more.
##Vote BC
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On January 21 2011 19:32 Jackal58 wrote:
Good morning all. So the debate rages on. I think it's now time to start attempting to identify lurkers/inactives rather than to continue debating whether or not it's wise to do so. We appear to have a clear consensus on the issue. Having everyone on board is not a requirement since the player with the most votes wins anyways.
Shockeyy - Yes he may be at work. Yes he may be unable to post. Or he may be something else. In either case if he continues at his present rate of participation he is a detriment to us.
BloodyC0bbler - Hello!!!! You're the worst of the bunch so far.
GGQ - Your lips are moving but you're not really saying much.
Yeah, I haven't done as much analysis as I would like, but honestly I could say the same thing about you. You've made a good number of posts, but almost every one is a one liner. The activity is good, but more content would be appreciated.
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I'm going to say I don't like Pandain's butterfly flirting around the issue. He isn't actually committing to any position, besides lets not lynch shockeyy.
How about we lynch shockeyy and see what Pandain thinks????
:D!
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On January 22 2011 04:12 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. You've spoken but all you've given is definitions and what we SHOULD do with no clear plans/idea on how we're going to even go about doing it (differentiate between town lurkers/inactives and mafia lurkers/inactives). You stated that your main goal is get town to be active which is a non-committal thing to do. Your analysis of Nemesis was pretty bad, pretty much calling him out on saying pretty much the same things everyone else was saying/everyone else usually says on Day 1 (Lynch inactives, blah blah blah). Though I do think Nemesis' over aggressiveness was a bit weird, I think your actions/posts haven't been much better. So I'm keeping my vote on you for the time being.
Chaoser, lets lynch shockeyy instead!
On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:
Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
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On January 22 2011 05:39 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 04:12 chaoser wrote:I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. You've spoken but all you've given is definitions and what we SHOULD do with no clear plans/idea on how we're going to even go about doing it (differentiate between town lurkers/inactives and mafia lurkers/inactives). You stated that your main goal is get town to be active which is a non-committal thing to do. Your analysis of Nemesis was pretty bad, pretty much calling him out on saying pretty much the same things everyone else was saying/everyone else usually says on Day 1 (Lynch inactives, blah blah blah). Though I do think Nemesis' over aggressiveness was a bit weird, I think your actions/posts haven't been much better. So I'm keeping my vote on you for the time being. Chaoser, lets lynch shockeyy instead! Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:
Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
Go ahead and lynch me so you can get no information what so ever, now you're really being stupid and playing horribly. Either way, still at work, then I have school tonight, so I won't be able to post till like 10pm Eastern.
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Chaoser, lets lynch shockeyy instead!
Aside from not posting much, I don't know how I feel about shockeyy. i'm going to stick to my vote on pandain. Why go for someone he supports when you can just go for the main target. His jumping around on votes really makes me suspicious.
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On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity... And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no? Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote:
Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now? I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance. Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
Thats your problem. Stop expecting vets to perform and win games and learn to do it yourself. I was asked to join this game, and I am playing, but compared to pyp I am not solo winning this game. I am here purely to help town win, but I am not doing all the heavy lifting. I told you already where the days errors were, and how to redirect them, its now up to you guys to listen or not listen. Its your call.
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On January 22 2011 06:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity... And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no? On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote:
Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now? I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance. Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all. Thats your problem. Stop expecting vets to perform and win games and learn to do it yourself. I was asked to join this game, and I am playing, but compared to pyp I am not solo winning this game. I am here purely to help town win, but I am not doing all the heavy lifting. I told you already where the days errors were, and how to redirect them, its now up to you guys to listen or not listen. Its your call.
Alright, didn't know you were purposely going to not be as active as you were in pyp3.
Since I really don't know who to lynch, I'm just going to stick with the Shockkey lynch. Because while I don't think he's mafia, I'm unsure about everyone. And at the very least, there is merit in lynching lurkers, as he has himself addmitted to be one. I think he's been to "I'm town screw off", but as for right now no one else comes to mind.
##Unvote BC
##Vote Shockkey
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On January 22 2011 06:37 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 06:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity... And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no? On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote:
Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now? I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance. Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all. Thats your problem. Stop expecting vets to perform and win games and learn to do it yourself. I was asked to join this game, and I am playing, but compared to pyp I am not solo winning this game. I am here purely to help town win, but I am not doing all the heavy lifting. I told you already where the days errors were, and how to redirect them, its now up to you guys to listen or not listen. Its your call. Alright, didn't know you were purposely going to not be as active as you were in pyp3. Since I really don't know who to lynch, I'm just going to stick with the Shockkey lynch. Because while I don't think he's mafia, I'm unsure about everyone. And at the very least, there is merit in lynching lurkers, as he has himself addmitted to be one. I think he's been to "I'm town screw off", but as for right now no one else comes to mind. ##Unvote BC
##Vote Shockkey
dude the level of commitment and level of play required to win pyp3 is retarded. I have never had to play that hard as town period. In a game where you are playing vs mafia and sk, you should not also be worried about town offing you when your role is clearly town aligned.
As such I just refuse to do that every game, I think for obvious reasons. Games are not fun if your the only one working for the in. However, I will do my best to steer bad conversations back on track, and once day 2 hits spend time analyzing people. By then patterns will have formed and at least one red will have stuck his head out too far.
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Alright, reading all of the posts from top to bottom. Hopefully there will be some analysis-worthy ones in the midst.
Bunch of inactive/active discussion and random votes; all null tells.
GMarshal
Two things to note:
1) "So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure" is awfully convenient reason to join a bandwagon. I mean, joining bandwagon for pressure reason isn't that bad, but it is when someone specifically state their reasoning along with such vote I begin to raise eyebrows. Could be attempt to decrease personal responsibility, and is enough for me to think of the vote as scummy.
2) It is always good idea to pay attention to someone who suggest ideas detrimental to the town such as no lynch.
Minus townie points.
BloodyC0bbler
I actually like this post somewhat. On first sight this is one of those another advice or reiterate the obvious post that run rampant in day 1 (and they are essentially null tells as they can be either from mafia seeking town credit or townie actually wanting to be helpful), but he is the first one to advise the town that they should shift focus of discussion to the players.
That's all good, but it is noteworthy he himself is not doing anything to promote said discussion. He clearly knows what to do. If he does not actively talk about specific individuals the time I finish reading this thread, I'd be keeping a very good watchful eye on him.
Group of people parroting that no lynching is bad, but one that is definitely excusable with them posted in same time I guess.
GMarshal
WTF this bastion of scumminess. He is saying he suggested idea of no lynch "to generate some discussion" while "fully [agreeing] that abstaining is wasting one of our most valuable resources as town".
On most favourable light it's just backtracking. But let's think about this more, GMarshal suggests the idea which is factually bad; everyone is clearly going to argue against it. More importantly he knows that abstaining is terrible idea and therefore not worth raising discussion about.
Now consider that talking about abstaining really contributes nothing to the game. No insight about players or setup is gained from pursuing this topic. Only thing that is going to happen is everyone saying 'I disagree'. So GMarshal has effectively DERAILED TOWN'S DISCUSSION. Anyone with some thought should figure out exactly what I said, and realize bringing up idea of abstaining is just a poor waste of time. But what does he do?
Nemesis I want to hear more from you, what is your opinion on not lynching on the first day? ... (anyone else can feel free to answer these questions, I'm just poking Nemesis in particular)
He refuses to let the freaking topic die despite of fully seeing how people just responded to it, and basically ensures that Nemesis is going to waste at least his next post saying 'OMG I think abstaining is bad thing' too.
I'm sorry, but this is really scummy. Vote-worthy scummy.
##Unvote BloodyC0bbler
##Vote GMarshal
I'm impartial toward ShoCkeyy. I have done the same thing after all, and if he persists in such behaviour we can lynch him later on. At least his inactivity is less scummy than what I just felt while writing about GMarshal above.
Nemesis
This post is meh-ish, Pandain perfectly got the gist of it. Really like his response to the chaoser's statement as well. Actually enough to reconsider my opinion on him after his disastrous attack on me, but more on that later.
also minus townie points (to Nemesis).
BloodyC0bbler
DO SOMETHING
Lot of people are actually rising up about Shockeyy thing, so I'll have to write out my detailed opinion too argh. My thinking is that while inactive is bad, it is noteworthy to keep inactive who is showing sign of willingness to participate around for more than day one. To my memory Shockeyy has repeatedly posted in the thread that he is busy with work, and that is perfectly possible (look at me). But what those one-liners show me is that he is interested in this game and may make viable analysis giving opportunity. This is why I am willing to keep him alive for day one, personally I don't see why people would suddenly be less encouraged to vote for inactives in day two compared to day one like some people are suggesting (I wouldn't).
GMarshal
First paragraphs wishy-washy nature interesting. Might look for GMarshal-Nemesis connections if either of them flips red. On irrelevant note don't see why people say Nemesis is being aggressive against Shockeyy. My impression is that he just made somewhat scummy vote, but that one is definitely up to interpretation.
I mean if you want aggressive, you have this post as perfect example to look at 
Shockeyy really need to talk about other players instead of OMGUSing up.
Hmm, Pandain is actually taking a very strong stance. Possible connections to look at if inactives keep insisting on being inactive (eg. Shockeyy) and Pandain refuses to vote for that individual.
LSB and Pandain duels over semantics. Really guys, I really don't think there is concrete formula for dealing with inactives/lurkers. It's just all case-to-case basis.
Pandain
Ah, yes. "his disastrous attack on me" =/ See my prior post for response. What I want to discuss is the thing I found worth noting.
While I can see why he would vote me for pressure purposes, this is just poorly supported. I mean really poorly supported. Check the third quote by me he writes about, I will go into detail there. Okay, I realized that thing about "huge scum tell" could have come from me writing "hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell)" which can be read wrongly I guess. But the thing is how the hell could he believe that my previous post was about inactivity being huge scum tell when LSB's post I was replying to was basically arguing why lynching inactive is a good thing. His line of attack on me just felt really unnecessarily forced.
Overall I really don't know what to think about this for moment. Will probably have an idea when I read the rest of his posts though.
Taking a break for moment here. Will continue the rest later on. I probably need to iso few individuals I found interesting too.
==CURRENT LIST OF SCUMMINESS, FROM MOST TO LEAST.==
1. GMarshal
2. Nemesis
3. BloodyC0bbler
4. ShoCkeyy
Jackal58, Barundar, Pandain, GGQ, Chaoser, LSB bunched together in neutral territory.
Oh yeah, and in case you guys missed it, GMARSHAL!!! (I voted him). Seriously guys, read my WoT.
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On January 22 2011 06:02 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 05:39 LSB wrote:On January 22 2011 04:12 chaoser wrote:I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. You've spoken but all you've given is definitions and what we SHOULD do with no clear plans/idea on how we're going to even go about doing it (differentiate between town lurkers/inactives and mafia lurkers/inactives). You stated that your main goal is get town to be active which is a non-committal thing to do. Your analysis of Nemesis was pretty bad, pretty much calling him out on saying pretty much the same things everyone else was saying/everyone else usually says on Day 1 (Lynch inactives, blah blah blah). Though I do think Nemesis' over aggressiveness was a bit weird, I think your actions/posts haven't been much better. So I'm keeping my vote on you for the time being. Chaoser, lets lynch shockeyy instead! On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:
Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all. Go ahead and lynch me so you can get no information what so ever, now you're really being stupid and playing horribly. Either way, still at work, then I have school tonight, so I won't be able to post till like 10pm Eastern.
If I did my time zone conversion correctly, that means that you won't be appearing until an hour after the day is finished.
In addition, the shockeyy lynch has never been about information. (Then again a side benefit if Shockeyy is red, Pandain is red). It's about clearing away the inactive players day one so we can get some good work done later
On January 22 2011 06:12 chaoser wrote:Aside from not posting much, I don't know how I feel about shockeyy. i'm going to stick to my vote on pandain. Why go for someone he supports when you can just go for the main target. His jumping around on votes really makes me suspicious.
Is it suspicious or is it another attempt by Pandain to try to promote activity day 1? If I remember correctly, he did this back in another game, just 'pressuring people'. By pressuring I mean what he is doing now.
On January 22 2011 07:58 Hesmyrr wrote: PandainAh, yes. "his disastrous attack on me" =/ See my prior post for response. What I want to discuss is the thing I found worth noting. While I can see why he would vote me for pressure purposes, this is just poorly supported. I mean really poorly supported. Check the third quote by me he writes about, I will go into detail there. Okay, I realized that thing about "huge scum tell" could have come from me writing "hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell)" which can be read wrongly I guess. But the thing is how the hell could he believe that my previous post was about inactivity being huge scum tell when LSB's post I was replying to was basically arguing why lynching inactive is a good thing. His line of attack on me just felt really unnecessarily forced.
Discussing the setup is supposedly a mafia tell in Mafiascum Wiki, but it does not apply to TL mafia. Discussing the setup here is a null tell, generally townie, as the mafia here don't feel its necessary to do anything. However, discussing the setup can be used to augment an argument about not taking any positions.
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United States22154 Posts
Finally, some analysis! and an accusation against me too! ok, let me answer the attack against me.
(Im going to use spoiler tags because I dont want to screw around with quotes
first you say
+ Show Spoiler + GMarshal
Two things to note:
1) "So for now I'm going to go ahead and help Pandain pressure" is awfully convenient reason to join a bandwagon. I mean, joining bandwagon for pressure reason isn't that bad, but it is when someone specifically state their reasoning along with such vote I begin to raise eyebrows. Could be attempt to decrease personal responsibility, and is enough for me to think of the vote as scummy.
2) It is always good idea to pay attention to someone who suggest ideas detrimental to the town such as no lynch.
1.) Pressure dosn't work if it is a single person applying it, hence why I supported Pandain pressure, also alow me to throw out there that if I had just gone ahead and voted against Nemesis that would have also raised eyebrows, all in all I generally try to give some reason why I'm voting the way I am, even if its evident
2.) The reason I proposed we discuss the no lynch idea was to see if someone would support it either directly or indirectly, as either of those would have made me suspicious of the person, you might consider it a derailment of the topic at hand, but I felt like the discussion was starting to slow down anyway, although I understand why you would be suspicious of anyone proposing such an idea, kudos for pointing it out.
+ Show Spoiler +WTF this bastion of scumminess. He is saying he suggested idea of no lynch "to generate some discussion" while "fully [agreeing] that abstaining is wasting one of our most valuable resources as town".
On most favourable light it's just backtracking. But let's think about this more, GMarshal suggests the idea which is factually bad; everyone is clearly going to argue against it. More importantly he knows that abstaining is terrible idea and therefore not worth raising discussion about.
Now consider that talking about abstaining really contributes nothing to the game. No insight about players or setup is gained from pursuing this topic. Only thing that is going to happen is everyone saying 'I disagree'. So GMarshal has effectively DERAILED TOWN'S DISCUSSION. Anyone with some thought should figure out exactly what I said, and realize bringing up idea of abstaining is just a poor waste of time. But what does he do?
Nemesis I want to hear more from you, what is your opinion on not lynching on the first day? ... (anyone else can feel free to answer these questions, I'm just poking Nemesis in particular)
He refuses to let the freaking topic die despite of fully seeing how people just responded to it, and basically ensures that Nemesis is going to waste at least his next post saying 'OMG I think abstaining is bad thing' too.
I'm sorry, but this is really scummy. Vote-worthy scummy.
##Unvote BloodyC0bbler
##Vote GMarshal
I agree, you could consider what I said to be backtracking, but if you go over my original post where I mention going no lynch, i merely said I was throwing it out there, not actually suggesting we use it. I was just pointing out something I found of particular note in the rules. Indirectly i was also using it to probe for scum, but I guess it was perhaps a little to evident. As to not letting the topic die I was just trying to get a response out of Nemesis, perhaps I chose the wrong topic to probe him on, but I really wanted to get something out of him. Also, I honestly wasn't sure that everyone was going to say "I disagree" it would have been stupid to post it otherwise. Also in my mind on the first day if it generates discussion of some sort then its not a waste of time at all. Again I posted the abstaining from lynching idea to get people to talk, as it seemed that the inactive people we were pressuring weren't going to respond any time soon
+ Show Spoiler +First paragraphs wishy-washy nature interesting. Might look for GMarshal-Nemesis connections if either of them flips red. On irrelevant note don't see why people say Nemesis is being aggressive against Shockeyy. My impression is that he just made somewhat scummy vote, but that one is definitely up to interpretation.
I agree, I do come off as wishy-washy in that post, to be honest its because that's ow unsure I feel right now.
Either way kudos for writing a well thought out analysis, I'm glad that you are pointing out what you feel are scum tells, as I said earlier those have to be pointed out asap, so they don't become lost.
for now I'm going to ##unvote I'm still not sure who I should vote for, and theres a good chance I'll be gone for the rest of the night, since I don't want to be modkilled but I don't also want to leave a vote out that might hurt the town I'm going to leave it as
##Vote: GMarshal
if I get back in time tonight to for a good opinion I'll change it to whomever I see as scummiest, if I don't get back I'll trust you people to make a good choice as of who to hang
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On January 22 2011 08:15 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 06:02 ShoCkeyy wrote:On January 22 2011 05:39 LSB wrote:On January 22 2011 04:12 chaoser wrote:I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. You've spoken but all you've given is definitions and what we SHOULD do with no clear plans/idea on how we're going to even go about doing it (differentiate between town lurkers/inactives and mafia lurkers/inactives). You stated that your main goal is get town to be active which is a non-committal thing to do. Your analysis of Nemesis was pretty bad, pretty much calling him out on saying pretty much the same things everyone else was saying/everyone else usually says on Day 1 (Lynch inactives, blah blah blah). Though I do think Nemesis' over aggressiveness was a bit weird, I think your actions/posts haven't been much better. So I'm keeping my vote on you for the time being. Chaoser, lets lynch shockeyy instead! On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:
Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all. Go ahead and lynch me so you can get no information what so ever, now you're really being stupid and playing horribly. Either way, still at work, then I have school tonight, so I won't be able to post till like 10pm Eastern. If I did my time zone conversion correctly, that means that you won't be appearing until an hour after the day is finished. In addition, the shockeyy lynch has never been about information. (Then again a side benefit if Shockeyy is red, Pandain is red). It's about clearing away the inactive players day one so we can get some good work done later Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 06:12 chaoser wrote:Chaoser, lets lynch shockeyy instead! Aside from not posting much, I don't know how I feel about shockeyy. i'm going to stick to my vote on pandain. Why go for someone he supports when you can just go for the main target. His jumping around on votes really makes me suspicious. Is it suspicious or is it another attempt by Pandain to try to promote activity day 1? If I remember correctly, he did this back in another game, just 'pressuring people'. By pressuring I mean what he is doing now. Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 07:58 Hesmyrr wrote: PandainAh, yes. "his disastrous attack on me" =/ See my prior post for response. What I want to discuss is the thing I found worth noting. While I can see why he would vote me for pressure purposes, this is just poorly supported. I mean really poorly supported. Check the third quote by me he writes about, I will go into detail there. Okay, I realized that thing about "huge scum tell" could have come from me writing "hugely anti-town (thus a scumtell)" which can be read wrongly I guess. But the thing is how the hell could he believe that my previous post was about inactivity being huge scum tell when LSB's post I was replying to was basically arguing why lynching inactive is a good thing. His line of attack on me just felt really unnecessarily forced. Discussing the setup is supposedly a mafia tell in Mafiascum Wiki, but it does not apply to TL mafia. Discussing the setup here is a null tell, generally townie, as the mafia here don't feel its necessary to do anything. However, discussing the setup can be used to augment an argument about not taking any positions.
And this is not how you play mafia. I would say that this post is just scummy all around. You don't even consider the fact that I have two jobs and I go to school, but still I try to post as much as possible to try and show I'm not inactive. Just because I don't post a whole analysis in each of my post doesn't mean I'm inactive. Why don't you actually look at the people who really have been inactive and target them.
Besides what kind of "analysis" can I make in the first day when all of you keep arguing and fighting about the same thing? All your post sound like the rest of them. There isn't enough information to even try and come up with a "analysis". All you guys keep talking about is to lynch or not to lynch inactives. Really, what can I come up with out of that? What can I do to "prove" that I am not an inactive. All I know is that I'm voting for LSB now because the way he's been posting is just disgusting to me.
##Vote LSB
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Oh and btw this is my last post for the night; I'm on a school computer since it's my break. Since it seems that I will get lynched tonight either way because LSB just always seems to want to lynch me first in every game we play together. Anyways, you're going to lynch me and learn nothing other than LSB in this game is Pandain in Mafia XXXV.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Vote Count for Day 1
Votes for Pandain (1): Chaoser
Votes for ShOckeyy (3): Nemesis, LSB, Pandain
Votes for GMarshal (2): Hesmyrr, GMarshall
Votes for LSB (1): ShoCkeyy
Jackal58, Barundar, BloodyC0bbler, and GGQ have to vote or face the lightning. Day 1 ends in 3 hours and 44 minutes.
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Here look I'll do it for you guys
Player List:
1. Jackal58 - Has posted 7 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Jackal58&gb=date
2. Barundar - Has posted 4 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Barundar&gb=date
3. Hesmyr - Has posted 6 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Hesmyrr&gb=date
4. BloodyC0bbler - Has posted 6 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=BloodyC0bbler&gb=date
5. ShoCkeyy - Has posted 9 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=ShoCkeyy&gb=date
6. Pandain - Has posted 14 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Pandain&gb=date
7. GGQ - Has posted 8 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=GGQ&gb=date
8. Chaoser - Has posted 14 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=chaoser&gb=date
9. Nemesis - Post way more in the Anime Discussion thread than here........ He's posted only 6 times here.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=nemesis&gb=date
10. GMarshal - Has posted 5 times since the game has started
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=GMarshal&gb=date
11. LSB - Has posted 21 times since the game has started.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=LSB&gb=date
And now I'm late to class.
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On January 22 2011 09:16 flamewheel wrote:
Vote Count for Day 1
Votes for Pandain (1): Chaoser
Votes for Nemesis (1): GMarshal
Votes for ShOckeyy (3): Nemesis, LSB, Pandain
Votes for GMarshal (2): Hesmyrr, GMarshall
Votes for LSB (1): ShoCkeyy
Jackal58, Barundar, and GGQ have to vote or face the lightning. Day 1 ends in 3 hours and 44 minutes.
You are also forgetting BC he hasn't voted yet I think.
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I'm home now. A brutal day at work prevented me from posting since I left this morning. Although I did get a chance to read through it this afternoon.
BloodyC0bbler- Help out an ignorant noob. What is this "Zodiac" you refer too?
ShoCkeyy- I just want to say I understand commitment and prior responsibilities.
Will you be active on the weekend?
I am undecided on my vote atm. Am leaning towards Pandain but nothing is set in stone.
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Right now our votes are too spread out, with new candidates popping up, and people voting for themself. I’m going to go with Shockeyy, who I think has tried laying low the most, and who I feel will be the least usefull for the town in the long run.
##Vote Shockeyy
I think however it’s too early to try and look for obvious connections between players, if anything, mafia xxxv taught me to take one lynch at a time. Pandain is hardly linked to Shockeyy just by stating his opinion on him, but let’s see what happens when we get close to lynch...
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Day 1 Vote Count
BloodyC0bbler (0)
Hesmyrr
Nemesis (0)
Pandain
GMarshal
ShoCkeyy (4)
Nemesis
LSB
Pandain
Barundar
Pandain (1)
Chaoser
Hesmyrr (0)
Pandain
BloodyC0bbler (0)
Hesmyrr
Pandain
GMarshal (2)
Hesmyrr
GMarshal
LSB (1)
ShoCkeyy
Jackal58, BloodyC0bbler, and GGQ have not yet voted and are in danger of being modkilled. Voting closes in a little under 3 hours. If you see anything wrong here, please let me know.
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On January 22 2011 10:07 Barundar wrote:
Right now our votes are too spread out, with new candidates popping up, and people voting for themself. I’m going to go with Shockeyy, who I think has tried laying low the most, and who I feel will be the least usefull for the town in the long run.
##Vote Shockeyy
I think however it’s too early to try and look for obvious connections between players, if anything, mafia xxxv taught me to take one lynch at a time. Pandain is hardly linked to Shockeyy just by stating his opinion on him, but let’s see what happens when we get close to lynch...
Laying low? Have you seen my post above? If anybody is laying low it's you Mr. 4 post in this thread alone.
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On January 22 2011 10:09 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 10:07 Barundar wrote:
Right now our votes are too spread out, with new candidates popping up, and people voting for themself. I’m going to go with Shockeyy, who I think has tried laying low the most, and who I feel will be the least usefull for the town in the long run.
##Vote Shockeyy
I think however it’s too early to try and look for obvious connections between players, if anything, mafia xxxv taught me to take one lynch at a time. Pandain is hardly linked to Shockeyy just by stating his opinion on him, but let’s see what happens when we get close to lynch...
Laying low? Have you seen my post above? If anybody is laying low it's you Mr. 4 post in this thread alone.
It's not about the nr of posts...
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##VOTE: Pandain
I gotta go get some sleep. See you guys in the morning.
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##Unvote Shockkey
##Vote LSB
Yeah shockkey isn't mafia. If you really think mafia have decided to just let us have a free kill on day 1 with NO resistance, that's a bit of a silly willy thought.
Posts LSB has made just have made me suspicious of him.
(Then again a side benefit if Shockeyy is red, Pandain is red)
He knows better than to think "if X defends Y, and y is mafia, X is definitely red"
2. I'd kill both. I've explained above in a different post.
But order of
Mafia Lurker>Inactive>Lurker
Hasn't shown shockkey to be mafia lurker
Indeed, saying things without actually contributing is a great way to find a mafia. An inactive may actually help, but a lurker just repeats nothing.
HEAVILY contradicts what he's been saying this whole time. Especially the above post for instance, and several others.
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also are we really gonna have 2 modkills
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To be honest I agree. LSB voted for Shockeyy as an indirect FoS on Pandain, which seems like false logic to me. Shockeyy would be the perfect easy target for mafia, and LSB seems to have tried to bandwagon him without letting Shockeyy defend himself. Lastly it seems like noone has stepped forward to defend Shockeyy, except Pandain...
##Vote LSB
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I explained why lynching Shockeyy is bad idea until further examining his behaviour. I promise I'll bandwagon the hell out of him in absence of any contribution & no mafia starts acting stupid. My thinking is just that he got further end of the stick b/c he is the one who repeatedly stated he was busy instead of parroting meaningless posts initially (seriously, there are players other than him that have not offered any comments about other players at all- active lurking which is just as dangerous and should be watched out.)
Are we seriously lynching one of the most active players on the basis that he is active & accused many players? True, Pandain may do as well focusing his efforts on single one of his suspects, but it is still d1 after all and he did much more than most of the players here. I'd at least let him leave a day to see how his opinion solidifies.
If town is really going for these two candidates then I am going to say GMarshal lynch is going to have just much merit.
"but he's being pro-town!" (the last post)
No, what he does is just quip basic pro-town ideas without any insightful opinion about other players at all, then votes for himself. Now, as a townie, knowing that it might be the last post you might make for a day, voting for yourself - confirmed town - is going to be the single worst move available. Why is he so afraid of voting for any of his suspects? Has he given any opinion about other players at all instead of asking others to do so? That vote screams of trying to look pro-town.
I am confident about this, at least it is just as justifiable as some candidates people are throwing around here. Vote GMarshal.
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Ok wait, why are people voting for LSB?
This is a rather a bit of a weird bandwagon. There has been too much speculation on people's actions so far. It's day 1, and people are trying to analyze out of a few posts.
Shockeyy is pulling an OMGUS. Barundar is just bandwagoning. Pandain just seems to be flip flopping looking for a target that people are willing to follow him with.
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(LSB)
Shockeyy
Pandain
Barunder
(GMarshal)
Hesmyrr
GMarshal
(Shockeyy)
Nemesis
LSB
(Pandain)
chaoser
Jackal58
NOT VOTING: BloodyC0bbler, GGQ
When is the deadline? Might try to iso LSB.
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On January 22 2011 12:35 Nemesis wrote:
Ok wait, why are people voting for LSB?
This is a rather a bit of a weird bandwagon. There has been too much speculation on people's actions so far. It's day 1, and people are trying to analyze out of a few posts.
Shockeyy is pulling an OMGUS. Barundar is just bandwagoning. Pandain just seems to be flip flopping looking for a target that people are willing to follow him with.
Would you consider voting for GMarshal if someone else votes for him? I'd ask you to switch now but then it becomes 3-3 tie which is the last thing I want. Want to avoid LSB lynch for now since I did not analyze him much, and this bandwagon seems to have come out of nowhere.
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I don't think G marshal is mafia. While he hasn't been superb, he hasn't been bad either. Constantly contributed, generating new discussion. Usually mafia wants town to just stagnate in discussion.
The only thing worrying me about LSB's lynch is that barundar just suddenly changed from "I'ma do two analysis on shockkey, he's mafia", to "shockkey is just the easy lynch, let's vote lsb."
And normally I would be more upset with lynching an active player if everyone wasn't really talking. Thus far almost everyone has been posting a decent amount.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Vote Tally for Day 1:
ShoCkeyy (2): Nemesis, LSB
Pandain (2): Chaoser, Jackal58
GMarshal (2): Hesmyrr, GMarshal
LSB (3): ShoCkeyy, Pandain, Barundar
BloodyC0bbler and GGQ need to vote. Deadline is in 14 minutes.
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On January 22 2011 12:42 Hesmyrr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 12:35 Nemesis wrote:
Ok wait, why are people voting for LSB?
This is a rather a bit of a weird bandwagon. There has been too much speculation on people's actions so far. It's day 1, and people are trying to analyze out of a few posts.
Shockeyy is pulling an OMGUS. Barundar is just bandwagoning. Pandain just seems to be flip flopping looking for a target that people are willing to follow him with. Would you consider voting for GMarshal if someone else votes for him? I'd ask you to switch now but then it becomes 3-3 tie which is the last thing I want. Want to avoid LSB lynch for now since I did not analyze him much, and this bandwagon seems to have come out of nowhere.
I am not really sure about voting for Gmarshal. He seems to be trying a bit of forced activity, but at least he is trying, while shockeyy on the other hand has pretty much been useless.
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My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too.
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I'm also worried about this lynch out of nowhere. I'm going to vote for the person that I feel made the least convincing defense, which is ShocCeyy. I also dislike his 'Kill me and you'll see!' defense.
##Vote ShocCeyy
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On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too.
1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all
2.Contradictory statements
Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB.
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Village Idiot =/= Mafia
Inactive =/= Mafia
Either way this makes it a 3-3 tie (no lynch) We might want to quickly negotiate, only 10 minutes left.
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frick your right.
The point I'm trying to make though is LSB is NOT a village idiot, he knows better than this.
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I'll unvote to avoid no lynching if necessary
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I'd be willing to revote either one of them. Don't want to see a revote and I'm reconsidering my vote on pandain. What Hes said makes sense, mafia usually wouldn't want to draw that much attention to themselves by jumping all over voting people. Don't know how to pick over LSB and shockey
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Well pick quick then, two minutes.
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I meant non-lynch, not revote p90x is messing with my head x_x
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make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie
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Fadoodle
##Unvote LSB
##Vote Shockkey
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Vote Tally for Day 1:
ShoCkeyy (4): Nemesis, LSB, GGQ, Pandain
Pandain (2): Chaoser, Jackal58
GMarshal (2): Hesmyrr, GMarshal
LSB (2): ShoCkeyy, Barundar
BloodyC0bbler is to be modkilled. ShoCkeyy is to be lynched. Night post coming shortly.
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Oh good, I didn't have to switch to Shockkey. This switch makes me pretty certain this will be fail lynch though =/ I guess lesser of two evils.
(Thought Shockey lynch might have revealed more about Pandain & Barunder if they persisted).
##Unvote GMarshal
##Vote Shockkey
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@Mod: you made the day post at 13:03, but I guess it is irrelevant now.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
![[image loading]](http://spyhunter007.com/Images/epcot_city_at_night.jpg)
TL Mini Mafia IV: Night 1 Start
Seriously what's with these coffee stains? Luckily, the bottom is readable.
ShoCkeyy the Townie is lynched.
BloodyC0bbler the Vigilante is modkilled.
It is now Night 1. If you have an action to use, get it to Incognito and myself. You have roughly 24 hours.
+ Show Spoiler +LOL I SO POSTED THIS IN THE WRONG THREAD AT FIRST
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On January 22 2011 13:03 Hesmyrr wrote:
@Mod: you made the day post at 13:03, but I guess it is irrelevant now.
@Hesmyrr:
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a (24 hour night/48 hour) day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 11 EST, but that is subject to change.
^^
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facepalm....seriously....
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The only thing worrying me about LSB's lynch is that barundar just suddenly changed from "I'ma do two analysis on shockkey, he's mafia", to "shockkey is just the easy lynch, let's vote lsb."
I changed vote because there was noone defending Shockeyy. A bunch of people came out to post suddenly when the pressure lifted. I'm glad we avoided a tie, but there was a bunch of lurkers that suddenly popped up when the lynch wasn't already settled.
Mafia was way too happy letting Shockeyy die.
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Heh, i guess i havve more time for work and for school...
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On January 22 2011 13:25 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +The only thing worrying me about LSB's lynch is that barundar just suddenly changed from "I'ma do two analysis on shockkey, he's mafia", to "shockkey is just the easy lynch, let's vote lsb." I changed vote because there was noone defending Shockeyy. A bunch of people came out to post suddenly when the pressure lifted. I'm glad we avoided a tie, but there was a bunch of lurkers that suddenly popped up when the lynch wasn't already settled. Mafia was way too happy letting Shockeyy die.
Lets look at the last few votes
On January 22 2011 11:51 Pandain wrote:##Unvote Shockkey
##Vote LSBYeah shockkey isn't mafia. If you really think mafia have decided to just let us have a free kill on day 1 with NO resistance, that's a bit of a silly willy thought. Posts LSB has made just have made me suspicious of him. He knows better than to think "if X defends Y, and y is mafia, X is definitely red" Show nested quote +2. I'd kill both. I've explained above in a different post.
But order of
Mafia Lurker>Inactive>Lurker Hasn't shown shockkey to be mafia lurker Show nested quote +Indeed, saying things without actually contributing is a great way to find a mafia. An inactive may actually help, but a lurker just repeats nothing. HEAVILY contradicts what he's been saying this whole time. Especially the above post for instance, and several others.
Looks familiar? Yeah, he's been throwing FOS on everyone. Which is very interesting, since once you accuse everyone, you basically accusing no one at all.
On January 22 2011 12:16 Barundar wrote:
To be honest I agree. LSB voted for Shockeyy as an indirect FoS on Pandain, which seems like false logic to me. Shockeyy would be the perfect easy target for mafia, and LSB seems to have tried to bandwagon him without letting Shockeyy defend himself. Lastly it seems like noone has stepped forward to defend Shockeyy, except Pandain...
##Vote LSB
Interesting. The key issue is that I voted for Shockeyy for another reason, he wasn't going to be very active or useful anyways. Indeed look at what he did. Pull up a tally of votes, and throw around OMGUS.
The point is, Barundar suddenly forgets this and says that this means Shockeyy is an easy target for the mafia. + Show Spoiler +On January 22 2011 10:07 Barundar wrote:
Right now our votes are too spread out, with new candidates popping up, and people voting for themself. I’m going to go with Shockeyy, who I think has tried laying low the most, and who I feel will be the least usefull for the town in the long run.
##Vote Shockeyy
I think however it’s too early to try and look for obvious connections between players, if anything, mafia xxxv taught me to take one lynch at a time. Pandain is hardly linked to Shockeyy just by stating his opinion on him, but let’s see what happens when we get close to lynch...
On January 22 2011 12:53 GGQ wrote:
I'm also worried about this lynch out of nowhere. I'm going to vote for the person that I feel made the least convincing defense, which is ShocCeyy. I also dislike his 'Kill me and you'll see!' defense.
##Vote ShocCeyy
Doesn't really offer an analysis of Shockeyy's post, just a small reason to seem like he is contributing.
On January 22 2011 12:59 Pandain wrote:
Fadoodle
##Unvote LSB
##Vote Shockkey
Doesn't even bother to give a reason
On January 22 2011 12:59 chaoser wrote:
#VOTE SHOCKEY
Well... not much reasoning behind this. But Chaoser did suspect Pandain.
Hesmyrr then votes, but he knows that his vote is useless.
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Btw, do you guys actually want me to answer Pandain's post?
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As per what BC suggested, lets start working on Night Actions.
We should keep the Medic Protect List as small as possible, maybe 2-3 people so the mafia won't be tempted to shoot inside it.
On the other hand, the DT check list can be pretty large. But it should be used as a way that people can make FOS
Medic Protect List
Hesmyrr- He has no real suspicion on him, making him an attractive target
DT Check Lists
Pandain
Barunder- weird vote switching
GGQ
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Pretty sure all the last minute switching was due to people thinking 1) Shockeyy isn't getting any defense, mafia would defend if it's a day 1 lynch of them and 2) the way the votes came down, it was going to be a tie and no one wanted mafia to get away with a free day/night.
The only thing I'm worried about is the last minute switching by Pandain and Barundar to LSB though I don't know what it means. At first it looked like they were switching to save Shockeyy last minute but then he flipped green...I suggest, like LSB said, on a check of barundar and pandain but with a check on Barundar more important than Pandain. While pandain gave a reason, barundar seems like he just followed along.
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On January 23 2011 00:46 LSB wrote:
As per what BC suggested, lets start working on Night Actions.
We should keep the Medic Protect List as small as possible, maybe 2-3 people so the mafia won't be tempted to shoot inside it.
On the other hand, the DT check list can be pretty large. But it should be used as a way that people can make FOS
Medic Protect List
Hesmyrr- He has no real suspicion on him, making him an attractive target
DT Check Lists
Pandain
Barunder- weird vote switching
GGQ
While Hesmyrr is a good choice for medic protection, having only one possibility for medics to protect is a very bad idea. Medic, you should RNG between Hesmyrr and another person you think is blue/going to get hit.
As for the DT check list, here's my list:
Barundar-I agree, that vote switch did catch my attention. Something about him just isn't right. However, he has been performing analysis, but his playstyle has been off(for example, doesn't post as much.)
LSB Has been playing suspiciously
Jackal This guy really catches my eyes. Either he is just showing how he's new, or he's mafia. It's somewhat consistent with the previous game so that helps him a little, but as of now i think he's a good check.
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And I changed my vote so we didn't have a tie.
Note if I was mafia, then if I had not done so, there would'be been no lynch.
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Hmmm, town is in a bit of a bad position right now with BC getting modkilled.
Right now it is
6-3
5-3 (after tonight)
3-3 (the next day if we mislynch)
So next day is pretty much LYLO, unless medic succesfully protects someone. We need to be careful about the next lynch and not be too rash.
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I don't know about that. I only thought of it afterwards, but since BC was slated to be modkilled, we should have left it as a tie. Now we have a double death and unless there's a doc/vet save tonight, we will be in mylo tomorrow.
@LSB, I didn't have time before the deadline to explain why I thought ShocCeyy's defense was worse than anyone else's. It's too late now, but I can still explain if you want. And yes, I would like you to answer Pandain's post.
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Quick impressions:
* What I want to state first is that there is literally nothing distinguishing mafia going "oh look nobody is bandwagoning this guy so he must be inno!" from town going... well, you know what I am going to say.
Shockeyy flipping green might seem favourable to Pandain and Barunder, but note that given choice between inactive, highly suspected townie and somewhat-active townie mafia obviously is going to aim for the latter. Thus LSB may as well be the good investigation target considering that his alignment somewhat gives indication on that of the other two.
If LSB is town, their switch can be thought as minor scum-tells.
If LSB is mafia, townie points to Pandain and Barunder.
Something to keep in mind.
Hesmyrr then votes, but he knows that his vote is useless.
Not necessarily. It was 4-2-2-2, thought someone might actually switch and cause 3-3 and feign ignorance after causing a tie. Unlikely, but I like to cover all the bases.
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On January 23 2011 03:52 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 00:46 LSB wrote:
As per what BC suggested, lets start working on Night Actions.
We should keep the Medic Protect List as small as possible, maybe 2-3 people so the mafia won't be tempted to shoot inside it.
On the other hand, the DT check list can be pretty large. But it should be used as a way that people can make FOS
Medic Protect List
Hesmyrr- He has no real suspicion on him, making him an attractive target
DT Check Lists
Pandain
Barunder- weird vote switching
GGQ While Hesmyrr is a good choice for medic protection, having only one possibility for medics to protect is a very bad idea. Medic, you should RNG between Hesmyrr and another person you think is blue/going to get hit. As for the DT check list, here's my list:Barundar-I agree, that vote switch did catch my attention. Something about him just isn't right. However, he has been performing analysis, but his playstyle has been off(for example, doesn't post as much.) LSB Has been playing suspiciously Jackal This guy really catches my eyes. Either he is just showing how he's new, or he's mafia. It's somewhat consistent with the previous game so that helps him a little, but as of now i think he's a good check.
Check away.
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Regarding my vote switch, lack of activity around the day 2 key for a late switch onto annul in mafia xxxv. The sudden activity when LSB was actually pressured makes me regret it didn’t get through.
We spend a whole day discussing inactives, without getting any better candidates than Shockeyy. In my opinion we needed to make something happen, and hope for a mafia reaction. I picked LSB over Gmarshal beceause of his reasons for voting Shockeyy:+ Show Spoiler + On January 22 2011 03:55 LSB wrote:
I'm going to support the Shockkey lynch because
1) Indirect FoS on Pandain.
Pandain has detracted from his initial posts on activity back in XXXV, one possible explanation could be that Pandain is on a scum team with an inactive, shockeyy.
[…] On January 22 2011 05:38 LSB wrote:
I'm going to say I don't like Pandain's butterfly flirting around the issue. He isn't actually committing to any position, besides lets not lynch shockeyy.
How about we lynch shockeyy and see what Pandain thinks????
:D!
It struck me as suspicious that he would vote Shockeyy, while suspecting Pandain. Firstly, the connection was too flimsy to be of real value, Shockeyy had simply used some of Pandain’s arguments, while Pandain had stated his opinion on Shockeyy. Secondly a mislynch could easily be explained as just a way of testing Pandain.
Add to this that my initial analysis of Pandain is town. His playstyle resembles that from my last game with him, plenty of finger pointing and last minute vote switches, while trying to lead the town. All that’s missing is a fake claim. While it’s a moot point, I don’t see a reason for a mafia to draw attention to himself like that.
Lastly I have had to /out of mafia xxxvi due to time constraints, but I'm doing my best to be active in this.
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On January 23 2011 06:16 Barundar wrote:Regarding my vote switch, lack of activity around the day 2 key for a late switch onto annul in mafia xxxv. The sudden activity when LSB was actually pressured makes me regret it didn’t get through. We spend a whole day discussing inactives, without getting any better candidates than Shockeyy. In my opinion we needed to make something happen, and hope for a mafia reaction. I picked LSB over Gmarshal beceause of his reasons for voting Shockeyy: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2011 03:55 LSB wrote:
I'm going to support the Shockkey lynch because
1) Indirect FoS on Pandain.
Pandain has detracted from his initial posts on activity back in XXXV, one possible explanation could be that Pandain is on a scum team with an inactive, shockeyy.
[…] On January 22 2011 05:38 LSB wrote:
I'm going to say I don't like Pandain's butterfly flirting around the issue. He isn't actually committing to any position, besides lets not lynch shockeyy.
How about we lynch shockeyy and see what Pandain thinks????
:D! It struck me as suspicious that he would vote Shockeyy, while suspecting Pandain. Firstly, the connection was too flimsy to be of real value, Shockeyy had simply used some of Pandain’s arguments, while Pandain had stated his opinion on Shockeyy. Secondly a mislynch could easily be explained as just a way of testing Pandain. Add to this that my initial analysis of Pandain is town. His playstyle resembles that from my last game with him, plenty of finger pointing and last minute vote switches, while trying to lead the town. All that’s missing is a fake claim. While it’s a moot point, I don’t see a reason for a mafia to draw attention to himself like that. Lastly I have had to /out of mafia xxxvi due to time constraints, but I'm doing my best to be active in this.
I concur with your analysis of Pandain. His play is almost identical to XXXV. An almost paranoid rush to change the vote in the last few minutes. I don't understand it but it is the same behavior. If I were on at the end of day yesterday I would have switched my vote to force a tie just to see if his head exploded.
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United States22154 Posts
So this is what happens when I forget to check in for a day. Kind of depressing losing a blue this early in the game. Anyway I want to point something out:
Pandain said:
"And I changed my vote so we didn't have a tie.
Note if I was mafia, then if I had not done so, there would'be been no lynch."
This seems to me to be faulty logic, mafia would have been more than happy to have a lynch as long as it wasn't one of them, in this case since it was a townie, there is no reason why mafia wouldn't have been more than satisfied to have a lynch rather than an abstention. I dont find the vote switch that suspicious, I find the idea that mafia would have preferred a no lynch to be faulty though.
As far as giving blues instructions, I prefer not, you guys are smart enough to figure out what to do. Anything I might say would probably end up helping mafia more than town anyway.
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On January 23 2011 07:56 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 06:16 Barundar wrote:Regarding my vote switch, lack of activity around the day 2 key for a late switch onto annul in mafia xxxv. The sudden activity when LSB was actually pressured makes me regret it didn’t get through. We spend a whole day discussing inactives, without getting any better candidates than Shockeyy. In my opinion we needed to make something happen, and hope for a mafia reaction. I picked LSB over Gmarshal beceause of his reasons for voting Shockeyy: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2011 03:55 LSB wrote:
I'm going to support the Shockkey lynch because
1) Indirect FoS on Pandain.
Pandain has detracted from his initial posts on activity back in XXXV, one possible explanation could be that Pandain is on a scum team with an inactive, shockeyy.
[…] On January 22 2011 05:38 LSB wrote:
I'm going to say I don't like Pandain's butterfly flirting around the issue. He isn't actually committing to any position, besides lets not lynch shockeyy.
How about we lynch shockeyy and see what Pandain thinks????
:D! It struck me as suspicious that he would vote Shockeyy, while suspecting Pandain. Firstly, the connection was too flimsy to be of real value, Shockeyy had simply used some of Pandain’s arguments, while Pandain had stated his opinion on Shockeyy. Secondly a mislynch could easily be explained as just a way of testing Pandain. Add to this that my initial analysis of Pandain is town. His playstyle resembles that from my last game with him, plenty of finger pointing and last minute vote switches, while trying to lead the town. All that’s missing is a fake claim. While it’s a moot point, I don’t see a reason for a mafia to draw attention to himself like that. Lastly I have had to /out of mafia xxxvi due to time constraints, but I'm doing my best to be active in this. I concur with your analysis of Pandain. His play is almost identical to XXXV. An almost paranoid rush to change the vote in the last few minutes. I don't understand it but it is the same behavior. If I were on at the end of day yesterday I would have switched my vote to force a tie just to see if his head exploded.
Firstly, that behavior is decidedly anti town. Rushing off into a lynch that isn't thought out is a bad way to play and a great way to kill a lot of greens
Secondly, it isn't unique to his town behavior. He does this every game, regardless of being mafia or town. The thing is, he's not to careful as mafia, and spends time defending scumbuddies.
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On January 23 2011 11:11 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 07:56 Jackal58 wrote:On January 23 2011 06:16 Barundar wrote:Regarding my vote switch, lack of activity around the day 2 key for a late switch onto annul in mafia xxxv. The sudden activity when LSB was actually pressured makes me regret it didn’t get through. We spend a whole day discussing inactives, without getting any better candidates than Shockeyy. In my opinion we needed to make something happen, and hope for a mafia reaction. I picked LSB over Gmarshal beceause of his reasons for voting Shockeyy: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2011 03:55 LSB wrote:
I'm going to support the Shockkey lynch because
1) Indirect FoS on Pandain.
Pandain has detracted from his initial posts on activity back in XXXV, one possible explanation could be that Pandain is on a scum team with an inactive, shockeyy.
[…] On January 22 2011 05:38 LSB wrote:
I'm going to say I don't like Pandain's butterfly flirting around the issue. He isn't actually committing to any position, besides lets not lynch shockeyy.
How about we lynch shockeyy and see what Pandain thinks????
:D! It struck me as suspicious that he would vote Shockeyy, while suspecting Pandain. Firstly, the connection was too flimsy to be of real value, Shockeyy had simply used some of Pandain’s arguments, while Pandain had stated his opinion on Shockeyy. Secondly a mislynch could easily be explained as just a way of testing Pandain. Add to this that my initial analysis of Pandain is town. His playstyle resembles that from my last game with him, plenty of finger pointing and last minute vote switches, while trying to lead the town. All that’s missing is a fake claim. While it’s a moot point, I don’t see a reason for a mafia to draw attention to himself like that. Lastly I have had to /out of mafia xxxvi due to time constraints, but I'm doing my best to be active in this. I concur with your analysis of Pandain. His play is almost identical to XXXV. An almost paranoid rush to change the vote in the last few minutes. I don't understand it but it is the same behavior. If I were on at the end of day yesterday I would have switched my vote to force a tie just to see if his head exploded. Firstly, that behavior is decidedly anti town. Rushing off into a lynch that isn't thought out is a bad way to play and a great way to kill a lot of greens Secondly, it isn't unique to his town behavior. He does this every game, regardless of being mafia or town. The thing is, he's not to careful as mafia, and spends time defending scumbuddies.
It was a joke. I'm slowly getting a feel for the way various people approach this game. Pandains approach is akin to chicken little.
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The day post may be delayed tonight. Future day/night cycles have been moved to 10 PM EST
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On January 23 2011 12:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 11:11 LSB wrote:On January 23 2011 07:56 Jackal58 wrote:On January 23 2011 06:16 Barundar wrote:Regarding my vote switch, lack of activity around the day 2 key for a late switch onto annul in mafia xxxv. The sudden activity when LSB was actually pressured makes me regret it didn’t get through. We spend a whole day discussing inactives, without getting any better candidates than Shockeyy. In my opinion we needed to make something happen, and hope for a mafia reaction. I picked LSB over Gmarshal beceause of his reasons for voting Shockeyy: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2011 03:55 LSB wrote:
I'm going to support the Shockkey lynch because
1) Indirect FoS on Pandain.
Pandain has detracted from his initial posts on activity back in XXXV, one possible explanation could be that Pandain is on a scum team with an inactive, shockeyy.
[…] On January 22 2011 05:38 LSB wrote:
I'm going to say I don't like Pandain's butterfly flirting around the issue. He isn't actually committing to any position, besides lets not lynch shockeyy.
How about we lynch shockeyy and see what Pandain thinks????
:D! It struck me as suspicious that he would vote Shockeyy, while suspecting Pandain. Firstly, the connection was too flimsy to be of real value, Shockeyy had simply used some of Pandain’s arguments, while Pandain had stated his opinion on Shockeyy. Secondly a mislynch could easily be explained as just a way of testing Pandain. Add to this that my initial analysis of Pandain is town. His playstyle resembles that from my last game with him, plenty of finger pointing and last minute vote switches, while trying to lead the town. All that’s missing is a fake claim. While it’s a moot point, I don’t see a reason for a mafia to draw attention to himself like that. Lastly I have had to /out of mafia xxxvi due to time constraints, but I'm doing my best to be active in this. I concur with your analysis of Pandain. His play is almost identical to XXXV. An almost paranoid rush to change the vote in the last few minutes. I don't understand it but it is the same behavior. If I were on at the end of day yesterday I would have switched my vote to force a tie just to see if his head exploded. Firstly, that behavior is decidedly anti town. Rushing off into a lynch that isn't thought out is a bad way to play and a great way to kill a lot of greens Secondly, it isn't unique to his town behavior. He does this every game, regardless of being mafia or town. The thing is, he's not to careful as mafia, and spends time defending scumbuddies. It was a joke. I'm slowly getting a feel for the way various people approach this game. Pandains approach is akin to chicken little.
Wow I fail at sarcasm, kicks self for skimming
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Day 2
LSB the Townie is dead.
It is now day 2. Day ends on Monday at 10 EST.
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United States22154 Posts
well, I guess that clears LSB of all suspicion...
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United States22154 Posts
there was a day post there 10 seconds ago...
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United States22154 Posts
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United States22154 Posts
Wow, it appears I'm rather poor at this whole "say everything you want to say in one post thing" so for now I'm going to try to say everything I want to in only this post. First, allow me to reveal the fact that I have been role-blocked, as to weather I have a role or not I will not say.
For now I want to FoS Pandain and Barunder as both of them wanted to hang LSB who has now flipped green. Jackal58 also wrote an interesting accusation of Pandain earlier, which I think merits looking at, its on page 6 if anyone wants to look at it.
TBH the only person I feel for sure is town right now is Hesmyrr.
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LSB dies again. He is pulling Radfield left and right.
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On January 22 2011 12:54 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too. 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB.
Yet you switched.
On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie
Why couldn't we have a tie? At the point you posted this it was painfully obvious we were going to have a modkill.
I'm just gonna keep sitting on you man.
We have a 37% chance of lynching a red today. Unless we lynch you. Then it goes up to 100%.
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On January 23 2011 22:39 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 12:54 Pandain wrote:On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too. 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB. Yet you switched. Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie Why couldn't we have a tie? At the point you posted this it was painfully obvious we were going to have a modkill. I'm just gonna keep sitting on you man. We have a 37% chance of lynching a red today. Unless we lynch you. Then it goes up to 100%.
What is this? Is this just bluster? Over-confidence for humour's sake? Or do you really think that your post justify's calling Pandain 100% confirmed scum?
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On January 23 2011 23:50 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 22:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 22 2011 12:54 Pandain wrote:On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too. 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB. Yet you switched. On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie Why couldn't we have a tie? At the point you posted this it was painfully obvious we were going to have a modkill. I'm just gonna keep sitting on you man. We have a 37% chance of lynching a red today. Unless we lynch you. Then it goes up to 100%. What is this? Is this just bluster? Over-confidence for humour's sake? Or do you really think that your post justify's calling Pandain 100% confirmed scum?
Damnit, justifies*
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On January 23 2011 23:50 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 22:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 22 2011 12:54 Pandain wrote:On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too. 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB. Yet you switched. On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie Why couldn't we have a tie? At the point you posted this it was painfully obvious we were going to have a modkill. I'm just gonna keep sitting on you man. We have a 37% chance of lynching a red today. Unless we lynch you. Then it goes up to 100%. What is this? Is this just bluster? Over-confidence for humour's sake? Or do you really think that your post justify's calling Pandain 100% confirmed scum?
All of the above.
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On January 24 2011 00:03 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2011 23:50 GGQ wrote:On January 23 2011 22:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 22 2011 12:54 Pandain wrote:On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too. 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB. Yet you switched. On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie Why couldn't we have a tie? At the point you posted this it was painfully obvious we were going to have a modkill. I'm just gonna keep sitting on you man. We have a 37% chance of lynching a red today. Unless we lynch you. Then it goes up to 100%. What is this? Is this just bluster? Over-confidence for humour's sake? Or do you really think that your post justify's calling Pandain 100% confirmed scum? All of the above.
Answer seriously, please.
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On January 24 2011 00:10 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 00:03 Jackal58 wrote:On January 23 2011 23:50 GGQ wrote:On January 23 2011 22:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 22 2011 12:54 Pandain wrote:On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too. 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB. Yet you switched. On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie Why couldn't we have a tie? At the point you posted this it was painfully obvious we were going to have a modkill. I'm just gonna keep sitting on you man. We have a 37% chance of lynching a red today. Unless we lynch you. Then it goes up to 100%. What is this? Is this just bluster? Over-confidence for humour's sake? Or do you really think that your post justify's calling Pandain 100% confirmed scum? All of the above. Answer seriously, please.
I was.
His last minute rush to break a tie between in order to lynch Shockkey or LSB makes no sense with an obvious mod kill on the way. All 3 are town. The odds of that are reaching the point of being ridiculously improbable. I think he has to be aware of who the reds are and his rush to get a 2 for 1 deal is extremely scummy looking.
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On January 24 2011 00:24 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 00:10 GGQ wrote:On January 24 2011 00:03 Jackal58 wrote:On January 23 2011 23:50 GGQ wrote:On January 23 2011 22:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 22 2011 12:54 Pandain wrote:On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too. 1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all 2.Contradictory statements Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB. Yet you switched. On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie Why couldn't we have a tie? At the point you posted this it was painfully obvious we were going to have a modkill. I'm just gonna keep sitting on you man. We have a 37% chance of lynching a red today. Unless we lynch you. Then it goes up to 100%. What is this? Is this just bluster? Over-confidence for humour's sake? Or do you really think that your post justify's calling Pandain 100% confirmed scum? All of the above. Answer seriously, please. I was. His last minute rush to break a tie between in order to lynch Shockkey or LSB makes no sense with an obvious mod kill on the way. All 3 are town. The odds of that are reaching the point of being ridiculously improbable. I think he has to be aware of who the reds are and his rush to get a 2 for 1 deal is extremely scummy looking.
Why would you not vote for someone that you consider to be 100% scum?
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On January 24 2011 00:43 GGQ wrote:Why would you not vote for someone that you consider to be 100% scum?
I'm not sure I understand your question.
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Let's all just step back for a moment. Jackal, I think you're misunderstand the events of the day. Pandain had initially voted Shockey and then switched to LSB when it seemed like "no one was defending shockey on day 1". Pandain thought he was "green" and so switched. Now, if Pandain was actually mafia, do you think he would switch? We now know that both LSB and Shockey are townies. It doesn't make sense for mafia to switch between the two, especially so late in the day. Mafia is usually content on sticking to one vote and sitting on it. If Pandain was actually mafia, he could have avoided the tie situation all together by just sitting on his vote of shockey. This makes me less suspicious of Pandain now than before.
So the thing that make me think Pandain isn't [r]red[/r]:
1) Both Shockey and LSB were green, why would mafia switch from one to the other? It makes no sense since a dead townie is still a dead townie.
At first I thought like you too, but stepping back, I noticed it was a weird thing that happened last night. What do others think? Might be wrong lol.
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Once again probably will return in about ~24 hrs with individual iso analysis to bandwagon the hell out of someone, which hopefully should be more convincing than my earlier efforts.
Shockeyy flipping green might seem favourable to Pandain and Barunder, but note that given choice between inactive, highly suspected townie and somewhat-active townie mafia obviously is going to aim for the latter.
I also admit to being clueless about Pandain, maybe I'll try to iso him before I have to leave for today.
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On January 24 2011 01:32 chaoser wrote:
Let's all just step back for a moment. Jackal, I think you're misunderstand the events of the day. Pandain had initially voted Shockey and then switched to LSB when it seemed like "no one was defending shockey on day 1". Pandain thought he was "green" and so switched. Now, if Pandain was actually mafia, do you think he would switch? We now know that both LSB and Shockey are townies. It doesn't make sense for mafia to switch between the two, especially so late in the day. Mafia is usually content on sticking to one vote and sitting on it. If Pandain was actually mafia, he could have avoided the tie situation all together by just sitting on his vote of shockey. This makes me less suspicious of Pandain now than before.
So the thing that make me think Pandain isn't [r]red[/r]:
1) Both Shockey and LSB were green, why would mafia switch from one to the other? It makes no sense since a dead townie is still a dead townie.
At first I thought like you too, but stepping back, I noticed it was a weird thing that happened last night. What do others think? Might be wrong lol.
He would switch in order to guarantee a lynch. You're right of course a dead townie is a dead townie but his last minute change ensured that there would be a dead townie.
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I have to go out for a while. If I make it back before football starts I'll get caught up and post some more. If I don't I won't be back on until tomorrow morning.
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He would switch in order to guarantee a lynch.
There was already a guaranteed lynch though. At that point I think it was like 4 on Shockey and 1 of LSB. It was only because of Pandain's switch that caused the "tie". Which is why I'm so confused.
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Really hope there's more activity soon guys...it's 5-3 right now...
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On January 24 2011 01:56 chaoser wrote:There was already a guaranteed lynch though. At that point I think it was like 4 on Shockey and 1 of LSB. It was only because of Pandain's switch that caused the "tie". Which is why I'm so confused.
GGQ's vote on LSB created the tie.
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On January 24 2011 04:32 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 01:56 chaoser wrote:He would switch in order to guarantee a lynch. There was already a guaranteed lynch though. At that point I think it was like 4 on Shockey and 1 of LSB. It was only because of Pandain's switch that caused the "tie". Which is why I'm so confused. GGQ's vote on LSB created the tie.
Yeah but if Pandain hadn't switched to LSB/posted about it GGQ's vote would have meant nothing and no tie would have happened.
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United States22154 Posts
Ok, so here is a post by post analysis of Pandain, I'll be putting the quotes in spoilers as usual, with my comments in italics inside the quotes
+ Show Spoiler +Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! This is mildly amusing but not all that relevant
In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. This is more of the generic advice for blues, its really not very useful as we all already know this, but since I was kind of giving the same type of advice I can't really be all that judgmental about it, still I expected more from a vet 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. The traditional pressure inactive status, common early game, nothing out of the ordinary with this
##Vote Nemesis + Show Spoiler +On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives.
This feels like nitpicking to me, as far as I could tell, Nemesis' message was pretty clear, "our real goal is to hang scum, but for now pressuring inactives is a good strategy"Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. this post is not all that suspicious all considered, it just seems to be a townie putting on some pressure
Post 2
+ Show Spoiler +
~quote snipped~
The problem with abstaining is that we basically let mafia have a free turn. Rather than voting, and therefore collecting vital information and discussion, no one is lynched, and we end up on day 2 being none the wiser. It's basically as if we started on day 2.
This is the expected reaction to the no lynch idea, a majorly negative one, its a appropriate reaction for a townie, and not at all suspicious
Whether it postpones lylo for one night cycle is really irrelevant, as losing that vital lynch just for an extra night cycle(which won't mean anything if we don't get through that without town getting hurt), is not even an even trade.
More of the same
Speaking of which: Vigi's do NOT use your ability until town declares a consensus on that. We don't need a townie dead because you decided to be a "hero."
Generic town advice, this is self evident and to me at least feels like a piece of common sense masquerading as advice
Speaking of, I want people to start voting Shockkey as well as nemesis. Shockkey has barely contributed with a real post, I want to see that from him.
This is interesting, Panadian is starting to lead the discussion away from Nemesis and towards Shockkey...however he'll reverse this opinion soon enough
Post 3
+ Show Spoiler +
~nemesis post suggesting lynching Shockeyy~
I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it.
ohhh, an analysis, this should be revealing
First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do.
Didn't Panadian say earlier that it was a working strategy? ah yes, he said "Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking." so is it a good start? or is it a horrible thing to do? Still though since Shokeyy turned out to be a townie and this is essentially a defense of him I can forgive it, although on the flip side it could be part of the mafia strategy in earlier games of killing off the active players first (note how Panadian accuses LSB one of the most active players later)
When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored.
This feels like nitpicking
If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond.
IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond.
Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post.
I actually agree with this, but iirc that wasn't his attitude in other games, also, allowing inactive to survive simply seems to make a nice little nest for mafia to hide in
Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill.
again, going straight for the throat, if Panadian flips green then I would take a good look at Nemesis while if Nemesis flips green then I would take a look at Panadian
This is typical mafia to me.
I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch.
this seems a little rushed, but I guess its one way to apply pressure
Post 4
+ Show Spoiler +
~post of chaoser saying "I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat."~
Again, we want to pressure people to POST, not lynch the inactives. There is a HUGE difference between those two. We want to pressure the inactives and lynch the lurkers, not lynch the inactives themselves. Remember, mafia aren't inactive, they're lurking.
Here Panadian insists with his distinction between "lurking" and "inactive", my main issue with this is that he fails to provide a way to distinguish between the two. However this is consistent with his earlier post in regard to lynching inactive, this attitude is either pro town (dosn't want to risk killing townies) or pro mafia (wants a nice little lurker nest), atm I feel like its more of a mafia strategy since inactive townies aren't all that useful. Still not a tell either way
Inactives are those who are bored, who don't care about the game, who don't have time.
Lurkers are the ones who are watching yet don't contribute.
Differentiating between those will make or break it for the town. We can't just lynch all the inactives and hope for the best.
I agree, but he provides no method to distinguish, so its just essentially saying "lynch mafia not town" not a great contribution, but at least he defines his terms
As of right now, I want Shockkey to post, but am giving him time. Meanwhile there is someone who might be scum and slipped up. There's no point not pressuring the person at the very least.
Pressuring people is always good, and as I said earlier its vital to point out any perceived scummieness
Post 5
+ Show Spoiler +I didn't think I'd have to go in detail about this, but I guess here it goes.
In mafia, there are two different extremes of people. Those who don't post, and those who do. The active, and the inactive. Mafia will usually end up taking either one of those extremes, either posting alot but not contributing(bill murray for instance), or not posting really at all(most lurking mafia.)
This is something we should all know, but I guess there is no harm in pointing it out
There is a vital different between lurkers and inactives. Most inactives are town. Usually when people are inactive they are bored/don't have time. They didn't get a "fun" role, so just have decided to play SC2 instead of play mafia. You will NOT find mafia in the inactive category. Mafia aren't inactive, they are paying plenty of attention to the game. As you will see, they simply decide to lurk, which is different from being inactive.
Lurkers are a portion of the inactives, but different in a vital way. While inactives don't pay attention to the thread, lurkers do. Lurkers just choose NOT to post because one of mafia's favorite things to do is let each day go by, while no one has said anything. Lurkers is where you will find mafia.
I think this definition makes sense, however it still dosn't provide us with a way to distinguish between the two
Being inactive, while anti town, is not a "scummy" thing to do. Lurking, however is. That is where we must analyze. And that is where Nemesis strikes me as scummy.
Repeats old information, went for the easy lynch, and just overall strikes me as scummy. I'm not saying by any means he's 100% scum, but we should at the VERY least pressure him.
I agree with the idea to pressure, but for some reason I feel as if this massive post hasn't contributed much at all
Post 6
+ Show Spoiler +
99% of time mafia do not fall into the realm of inactives. We want to find lurkers, not inactives.
Note I have always been ferevent about getting town talking, and this game should be no different. While we should pressure inactives to TALK, we should be VOTING lurkers.
For example as of now almost everyone has given a good post with the exception of shockkey. Do you really think(given 3 mafia), that mafia are going for the "inactive" role if town always says "lynch inactives."
We want to find those who seem to contribute but don't, not those who don't contribute and don't seem to either.
This is a rehash of what he said earlier, "find lurkers, pressure inactives, scum is spotted because they seem to contribute without contributing"
Post 7
+ Show Spoiler +Mafia will never go inactive if we threaten to lynch inactives. They really never do. Instead they will go "Just above" the threshhold of "contribution", while not really contributing.
As for examples?
Lurkers: Obviously paying attention, talking about unrelated stuff/not topic of debate, repeating same stuff(can fall under inactives too though so be careful), bad reasoning/mafia tells(wishy washy ness, other stuff)
This is another post talking about lurkers, talk about beating a dead horse, this post in its entirety feels like a non-contributing contribution
Post 7
+ Show Spoiler +
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing.
Says that our current strategy isn't working but does not offer any alternate suggestions, still its not a bad point, except when you consider the amount of games that an inactive/lurking mafia have cost us, in which case it comes out under a more suspicious light
Post 8
+ Show Spoiler +
~LSB mentions how inactives have cost us games before~
No LSB, I lost town the game. And I was really active that game.
And you can't say "it doesn't matter". Again, we want to pressure inactives to vote, not lynch them.
Let me ask you some questions:
1.Do you think mafia will lurk, or be inactive, and why?
2.Would you rather lynch a lurker or an inactive, and why?
3.You said you had opinions on Nemesis, what is that?
Forcing LSB to answer questions and fostering discussion is not a bad thing, but questions 1 and 2 seem rather forced to me, they are self evident and #2 in particular has the obvious answer everyone who doesn't want to look suspicious will give, #3 is good though, this almost feels like a non-contributing contribution to me, but I think it has enough to squeak by
Post 9 (god Panadian, could you post less, you are making me do all this work )
+ Show Spoiler +Panadian analyzes Hesmyrr, since this one is full of quotes and I really dont want to mess with the format, I'll just write my opinions here, you guys can go look up the post if you wish, essentially Panadian argues that Hesmyrr hasn't posted much and then proceeds to tell us that we should pressure him
Post 10
+ Show Spoiler +
~Snipped irrelevant top part~
~snipped quote of Barundar saying Panadian is all over the place with his pressure and asks why he switched off nemesis~
I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken.
a fair explanation of why he is switching votes, although personally I would have piled on more pressure to see nemesis' reaction
And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance.
Just wanted to point out the irony of BC being modkilled after this post
Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
This in my mind gives Panadian some townie points, as he decides against continuing to pressure/bandwagon Shockkey, its pretty common for for mafia to just stick with the easy target
Post 11
+ Show Spoiler +
~snip chaoser justifying his vote against Panadian~
I'm not just going to say "If someone does this: then I suspect them as mafia". Should I? It just seems to me that would enable mafia to easily hide from me even more.
And me thinks I've gotten town active. By accusing two people, I started discussion, got people talking, and so forth.
Sounds pretty logical and is a fair defense, nothing suspicious, and it is true he has promoted discussion
Tevo made a very long post, and actually was quite content-full when he actually contributed. Then he died on day 2. We don't know what would've happened with his activity. Furthormore, Brockett was lurking, not inactive. I'm unsure about Tevo, he may have just been inactive as well.
Discussion of a previous game, no comment
But as a very consistent trend those who are inactive are not mafia. While you can name two(and only really one might be inactive mafia), I can name at least 4. George clooney, soulfire, DTA, treehugger.
Pointing out that inactivity == mafia its pretty consistent with his whole lurker/inactive stance from earlier, and its not necessarily a bad thing
Seeing as I doubt I'll get any more from Hesmyrr seeing as he's going to be gone, it's time to pressure a more seasoned player.
Ok
I'm going to be voting Bloody Cobblar. He actually hasn't played anti town. But the thing is he hasn't contributed at all really to the discussion of who to lynch. He's talked about "forced activity" and "watch out for lurkers", but then hasn't done anything. I know your in another game, but you need to start posting more.
##Vote BC
Again a fair target for pressure, but at this point I'm going to throw out there that 3/5 people Panadian has accused have flipped pro town, if either of the other two flip green then that will make me really suspicious of Panadian.
Post 12
+ Show Spoiler +
Alright, didn't know you were purposely going to not be as active as you were in pyp3.
Dosn't seem like a good reason to stop pressuring a lurker, but ok I guess
Since I really don't know who to lynch, I'm just going to stick with the Shockkey lynch. Because while I don't think he's mafia, I'm unsure about everyone. And at the very least, there is merit in lynching lurkers, as he has himself addmitted to be one. I think he's been to "I'm town screw off", but as for right now no one else comes to mind.
And this is supicious in my mind, suspicious as hell, as Panadian said earlier he was pretty sure Shockkey was not mafia, as Panadian said earlier its not our goal to kill inactive but rather to kill mafia, also he calls Shockkey a lurker, while under his definition he is more of an inactive, thats quite a mistake for someone who insisted that it was an important distinction
Post 13
+ Show Spoiler +its full of quotes again, so here are my thoughts, here Pandain switches froms Shockkey to LSB claiming he is sure that Shockkey isn't mafia and accuses LSB of being inconsistent, its ironic that because of this the final tie comes down to two targets, both of which are town, both of which Pandain pushed for at one time or another
Post 14
+ Show Spoiler +
~in reference to LSB~
1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all
2.Contradictory statements
Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB.
This is actually what I thought too, so I can't really be judgmental about it, although I did not think it enough for a lynch
Post 15 + Show Spoiler +Fadoodle
##Unvote LSB
##Vote Shockkey
seeing as how Panadian was sure Shockkey was not mafia, would it not be better to go ahead and have a tie? (Im actually unsure about what the answer to that is)
+ Show Spoiler +While Hesmyrr is a good choice for medic protection, having only one possibility for medics to protect is a very bad idea. Medic, you should RNG between Hesmyrr and another person you think is blue/going to get hit.
As for the DT check list, here's my list:
Barundar-I agree, that vote switch did catch my attention. Something about him just isn't right. However, he has been performing analysis, but his playstyle has been off(for example, doesn't post as much.)
LSB Has been playing suspiciously
Jackal This guy really catches my eyes. Either he is just showing how he's new, or he's mafia. It's somewhat consistent with the previous game so that helps him a little, but as of now i think he's a good check.
Nothing all that odd here, plus Im getting tired of all this reading
Post 16 + Show Spoiler +And I changed my vote so we didn't have a tie.
Note if I was mafia, then if I had not done so, there would'be been no lynch.
Im not sure if knowing there was going to be a modkill and being sure of the innocence of the target, that a tie wouldn't have been better for the town, so this argument is pretty much null
Ok thats the lot of them, In conclusion right now Panadian is only coming off as slightly scummy in my eyes, here's hoping some one will catch something I missed, also note how continent it is that LSB who suspected Panadian drops dead (then again LSB did push for the Shockkey lynch)
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Okay sorry for not posting. I wanted to see a couple things beforehand.
First off, this is very bad for town. From now on we need to get every lynch right unless there is a medic protection/they hit a vet.
In defense of myself, there are a plethora of reasons which show I am not mafia:
1.LSB died-why would, if I'm mafia, I shoot him. It would only bring suspicion upon myself
2.Why would I be frantically changing between two townies. Why not just stick with one?
Furthormore, we need to band together and this next vote. Since its 5 v3, if even 1 other person sides with who the mafia want to get lynched, then its going to at least be a tie, which is not good for us.
My top suspect is Nemesis. Note how he hasn't been contributing at all this day, when its so important. Yet in previous games when he's town he contributes a lot, making analysis and the such. Along with going for the "easy lynch" in Shockkey, he's hardly contributed to the game. He's a classic "contributing without really contributing".
##Vote Nemesis
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##Vote Nemesis
and Gmarshal, for the love of god its Pandain, not Panadian.
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United States22154 Posts
My apologies for getting your name wrong, In my mind its Paladian (which is nothing like Pandain) for some reason, I'll try to get it right in the future.
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We can't allow discussion to die out like this. Nemesus was one of the lurkers that came out of hiding during yesterdays voting, and gmarshal didn't comment at all. I find it really strange that noone seemed to give attention to the posts against gmarshal.
Gmarshal i apreciate your analysis on pandain, but what are your thoughts on tonights lynch?
Nemesus whats with the lurking?
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United States22154 Posts
Gahh, an inactive town is a soon to be dead town. Alright, as far as tonight lynch goes there are two major people I suspect, one is Jackal, I feel like he hasn't contributed anything at all and has been rather aggressive, the other person I suspect is you Barundar, I see you posts as somewhat flipflopy, I need to look more at you, but I think someone else said they were going to do an analysis of you at some point. Also it just hit me that there are 3 scum left out of 8 people which means we need to get mafia today or we are royaly screwed. anyway, I'll check here again before I go to bed.
Pandain (I got it right this time!) given your current track record with accusing people and them turning out to be town, I'm not sure weather to trust your thoughts on Nemesis, when I have time (read chem lecture tomorrow) I'll go over his behavior in past game and compare it to his current behavior to see if I agree with you.
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So I finally got online today after a busy day today, and I find more of Pandain's crappy accusations again.
Let's analyze his latest post then:
On January 24 2011 05:59 Pandain wrote:
Okay sorry for not posting. I wanted to see a couple things beforehand.
First off, this is very bad for town. From now on we need to get every lynch right unless there is a medic protection/they hit a vet.
In defense of myself, there are a plethora of reasons which show I am not mafia:
1.LSB died-why would, if I'm mafia, I shoot him. It would only bring suspicion upon myself
2.Why would I be frantically changing between two townies. Why not just stick with one?
WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM. That is your entire defense. There could be a million reason for mafia to do this. They could be blue-sniping or they could really just want LSB dead.
As to why not stick with one townie, again this is pure WIFOM. For example, You could've been trying to find a chance to lynch an active townie. Notice how he kept changing votes after his crappy logic has been pointed out. He was essentially looking for an easy person to bandwagon day 1.
That is not really much of a defense.
Furthormore, we need to band together and this next vote. Since its 5 v3, if even 1 other person sides with who the mafia want to get lynched, then its going to at least be a tie, which is not good for us.
My top suspect is Nemesis. Note how he hasn't been contributing at all this day, when its so important. Yet in previous games when he's town he contributes a lot, making analysis and the such. Along with going for the "easy lynch" in Shockkey, he's hardly contributed to the game. He's a classic "contributing without really contributing".
##Vote Nemesis
So your main reason for voting me is having not gone on today until now? Why aren't you taking a look at the people who have posted day 1 but have not really contributed much like your buddy barundar there?
I know that having bad logic =/= mafia, but having consistent bad logic for ALL your FoS and votes is really making me suspicious of you. I am going to be thinking a bit before I decide to lynch you as it is LYLO.
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Why I believe Nemesis is mafia.
Summary: Nemesis to me is scum. From "contributing without really contributing", weak contribution compared to his previous game(such as lack of analysis) to his general posts this game, Nemesis has been playing scummy. Note how when he was town he would contribute alot, and I even waited a day for Nemesis to perhaps post something, but its very likely in my eyes that he's scum, and just wanted the day to go by.
I'm unsure about nearly everyone, but Nemesis in my eyes is our best bet.
An analysis of his posts this game
+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I don't like this post. I'm going to be a little lenient since it's a somewhat confusing concept, but again, we don't want to lynch inactives. We want to lynch lurkers. Every person we lynch who's "inactive." is not going to be mafia. On January 20 2011 22:30 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:24 Jackal58 wrote:On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I would argue that lynching the most active players on day 1 is a mistake. Unless of course active player A states "I am scum" which probably isn't going to happen. Duh, of course lynching the most active player day 1 is not the best idea ever (I suggested lynching inactives), but I am saying that we shouldn't be afraid to lynch active players. We shouldn't focus too much on what blues should do. We don't know what blue roles there are and blues will do what they think is best anyways. We should just focus more on scumhunting than whatever blue plans. Okay, focus on scum hunting. However, Nemesis hasn't scum hunted or helped with blues. On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. Explains himself, but the main problem about this post is his vote. Votes with a one line answer, going for the easy lynch. On January 21 2011 10:53 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it. First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do. When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored. You are just arguing semantics here. Besides, you can't exactly tell a lurker from an inactive unless they make it obvious.If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond. IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond. Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post. If they don't respond, that does not necessarily mean that they are bored townies. Just take a look at TMM3. Subversion(he was red that game) claimed he was roleblocked, and then disappeared afterwards. There were plenty of FoS on him after that, and he was up for lynch next day, but he still didn't respond. It is pretty much impossible to tell the difference between a lurker and an inactive townie.Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill. There was pretty much nothing else that people were discussing about. I gave my opinion on what we were currently talking about. What else could I have added to the discussion? It is not like anyone else was trying to generate new topic. At least I was trying to further the discussion.
I just woke up, I was still half-asleep when I checked this forum. I rather dislike it when town loses because everyone is inactive, and when I saw Shockeyy post "sorry I'm inactive, I promise I'll be active later," I wanted to pressure him to make sure that he actually keeps his promise and doesn't disappear as soon as we forget about him.This is typical mafia to me. I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. Okay, note what he's saying. 1."I'm just pressuring Shockkey". Yet Nemesis never ends up unvoting him, despite Shockkey becoming considerably more active. 2."Hey, no one else is adding new content." Well for one, that doesn't give you an excuse at all and second, you've done some pretty decent analysis in previous games. Furthormore, other people had actually been actively talking about stuff. On January 21 2011 11:17 Nemesis wrote:
Pandain all you did is define inactive/lurker. You still haven't answered how we can differentiate between them.You are just repeating the same points over and over again without really answering that question.
The only thing that we can really do is prevent everyone from heading that way in the first place by pressuring/lynching inactives. Keeps saying "Lynch inactives!" Again, we want to lynch lurkers. But that's really moot, and it's more the philosophy of how to play mafia rather than mafia itself. Notice how rather than actually contributing at all Nemesis has just defended himself and argued over the definitions. On January 22 2011 12:52 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 12:42 Hesmyrr wrote:On January 22 2011 12:35 Nemesis wrote:
Ok wait, why are people voting for LSB?
This is a rather a bit of a weird bandwagon. There has been too much speculation on people's actions so far. It's day 1, and people are trying to analyze out of a few posts.
Shockeyy is pulling an OMGUS. Barundar is just bandwagoning. Pandain just seems to be flip flopping looking for a target that people are willing to follow him with. Would you consider voting for GMarshal if someone else votes for him? I'd ask you to switch now but then it becomes 3-3 tie which is the last thing I want. Want to avoid LSB lynch for now since I did not analyze him much, and this bandwagon seems to have come out of nowhere. I am not really sure about voting for Gmarshal. He seems to be trying a bit of forced activity, but at least he is trying, while shockeyy on the other hand has pretty much been useless. Note how Shockkey has by this point actually been contributing somewhat. At least more than Nemesis. He's changed from "just make sure he doesn't dissapear" to "lynch him, he's useless." On January 23 2011 03:58 Nemesis wrote:
Hmmm, town is in a bit of a bad position right now with BC getting modkilled.
Right now it is
6-3
5-3 (after tonight)
3-3 (the next day if we mislynch)
So next day is pretty much LYLO, unless medic succesfully protects someone. We need to be careful about the next lynch and not be too rash. States the obvious.
His posts, as town, in TMM2
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7478150 Contributes ALOT Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 09:54 Nemesis wrote:On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote:
I apologize for being busy.
So we're having a day 1 lynch without any starting information huh. An open setup with unknown roleblockers gives a disadvantage to the town, but as the saying goes, "a challenge means god's afraid of your progress"
All right, lets see.
...
Looking at the past two pages, there's nothing to analyze. There's only been two votes, and the only discussion has been whether to lynch inactives.
no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage.
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. Orgolove comes in, makes one long post and then disappears. If you actually look at his post, he doesn't really say anything except "there's nothing to analyze." and disagrees with lynching inactives without really adding any more. Basically he makes a long post that doesn't really say anything. ##Unvote: Team 3
##Vote: Team 9 Flamewheel/Orgolove gives a decent reason and vote http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7517284contributes alot again
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Ok, well I decided to do an analysis on Pandain to decide on whether to lynch him or not.
I'm just going to summarize the main things I see here:
Day 1 - he starts off with a vote on me for "pressure".
On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it. First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do. When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored. If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond. IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond. Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post. Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill. This is typical mafia to me. I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch.
Ok this is when things get interesting...he now turns his pressure into a real lynch with his main reasoning being that lynching inactives is bad, and goes on to ramble about the definitions of inactives/lurkers.
After this, Pandain has pretty much derailed the whole thread into a discussion of what is inactive/lurkers and whether it is a good idea to lynch inactives. Town wasted half of day 1 talking about the definition inactives/lurkers because of Pandain, instead of discussing who to lynch.
Once it was clear that no one agrees with him, he pushes for another target: hesmyrr. After his crappy accusation was addresssed, he uses this to justify derailing the whole thread:
And me thinks I've gotten town active. By accusing two people, I started discussion, got people talking, and so forth.
Then, he goes out to accuse BC for pretty much the same reason as hesmyrr. After he was told how stupid his reason for voting is, he moves on to shockeyy.
After this he accuses LSB in the last hour before day ends. After barundar bandwagoned with him and once again being told how stupid his reason for lynching is, he changes his vote back to shockeyy.
Notice a pattern here? He basically goes from target to target and after being pointed out how bad his reasoning for lynching is, he changes it until his vote lands back on shockeyy, a person that most people suspected at the time. He is basically trying to find an easy target to lynch that town will agree with. I would also take a look at the people he didn't FoS during the first day: gmarshal, chaoser, ggq, barundar(who also bandwagoned with him in his last minute vote switch to LSB).
Now as for his later post, I have pretty much covered it in my previous post.
In Summary:
- he derails the thread with his whole inactive/lurker thing
- he tries to look for an easy lynch target day 1 and changes votes after being told off for his bad logic
- he uses WIFOM to justify his actions not being scummy
- he constantly has bad reasoning for his votes. Townies sometimes have bad reasons for voting, but when it happens ALL the time, I can't think of it as as anything but scummy combined with all the other reasons, and I think we have a pretty good lynch target.
##Vote Pandain
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On January 24 2011 00:59 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 00:43 GGQ wrote:Why would you not vote for someone that you consider to be 100% scum? I'm not sure I understand your question.
You said that lynching Pandain would be lynching a red 100%. I asked if that was blustering overconfidence or if you were serious. You said both, which doesn't make sense, but from your posts I gather that you were being serious. So I asked why you would not vote for him if you actually believe he is 100% mafia. It feels scummy to me, like you are scum trying to sling mud without having to back it up. You did the same thing yesterday, accusing pandain then waiting to see if anyone else would vote him first.
Your play this whole game has been ringing alarm bells for me. You've been posting aggressively but with little analysis. I think your accusations of pandain are not nearly strong enough for the confidence you are saying you have in them. What gives? What do you think of Nemesis or GMartshal?
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On January 24 2011 11:31 Pandain wrote:
Why I believe Nemesis is mafia.
Summary: Nemesis to me is scum. From "contributing without really contributing", weak contribution compared to his previous game(such as lack of analysis) to his general posts this game, Nemesis has been playing scummy. Note how when he was town he would contribute alot, and I even waited a day for Nemesis to perhaps post something, but its very likely in my eyes that he's scum, and just wanted the day to go by.
I'm unsure about nearly everyone, but Nemesis in my eyes is our best bet.
You confuse me this game Pandain...I don't understand your logic at all and maybe that's the ploy, to do crazy random shit that no one can follow. You say Nemesis is "contributing without really contributing" but you're even worse. Before this analysis, you were basically "contributing so much that you weren't contributing at all." By jumping from target to target and playing up the fact that you were only doing this to "start up conversation", you basically had no opinion on the game because you pointed fingers at everything and everyone. You realize that isn't helping town right? Making conversation is good, making the topic change every 10 minutes is bad. We went from Nemesis to BC to Shockey to LSB. I think there was someone else in there but basically by doing that, we can't pin you down for anything. Do you see how you're doing the same thing as "contributing without really contributing"?
Also, you're riding on him for not contributing today when more than half the town didn't contribute. I don't think that's a strong claim at all. Does that mean GGQ and Hesmyrr and Me are mafia too? Even you barely contributed today until a few hours ago. It's the semi finals for the NFL so maybe that's why some people aren't here? I know that's what I was doing all day.
I really don't understand...I don't think you're mafia just cause you're playing so randomly and loud but at the same time that's so WIFOM...for all I know, in a few hours, you're going to jump to trying to lynch someone else...can someone else weigh in on this? I'm confused as fuck on Pandain's actions. What do you think GGQ...I just don't even...sigh
Pandain, can you explain what your logic was for your actions on Day 1? Would make my life easier.
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BZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
What's up with the inactivity?
I am not going to be able to get back on until around 8pm tomorrow, so hopefully people pick up the discussion by then.
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And Hesmyrr too, what do you think about Pandain, I remember you or GGQ said they were going to analysis pandain
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And you're not in the clear Nemesis, I just want to clear up this whole Pandain thing first and then I'm going to look at all your posts and analyze them.
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On January 24 2011 13:31 chaoser wrote:
And you're not in the clear Nemesis, I just want to clear up this whole Pandain thing first and then I'm going to look at all your posts and analyze them.
Not clear of what? I didn't know you had something against me. Feel free to analyze away.
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Day 2 Vote Count
Nemesis (1)
Pandain
Pandain (1)
Nemesis
Voting closes in 21 hours. If you see anything wrong here, please let me know.
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##vote Jackal58
Justify yourself, please.
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On January 24 2011 13:01 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 11:31 Pandain wrote:
Why I believe Nemesis is mafia.
Summary: Nemesis to me is scum. From "contributing without really contributing", weak contribution compared to his previous game(such as lack of analysis) to his general posts this game, Nemesis has been playing scummy. Note how when he was town he would contribute alot, and I even waited a day for Nemesis to perhaps post something, but its very likely in my eyes that he's scum, and just wanted the day to go by.
I'm unsure about nearly everyone, but Nemesis in my eyes is our best bet.
You confuse me this game Pandain...I don't understand your logic at all and maybe that's the ploy, to do crazy random shit that no one can follow. You say Nemesis is "contributing without really contributing" but you're even worse. Before this analysis, you were basically "contributing so much that you weren't contributing at all." By jumping from target to target and playing up the fact that you were only doing this to "start up conversation", you basically had no opinion on the game because you pointed fingers at everything and everyone. You realize that isn't helping town right? Making conversation is good, making the topic change every 10 minutes is bad. We went from Nemesis to BC to Shockey to LSB. I think there was someone else in there but basically by doing that, we can't pin you down for anything. Do you see how you're doing the same thing as "contributing without really contributing"? Also, you're riding on him for not contributing today when more than half the town didn't contribute. I don't think that's a strong claim at all. Does that mean GGQ and Hesmyrr and Me are mafia too? Even you barely contributed today until a few hours ago. It's the semi finals for the NFL so maybe that's why some people aren't here? I know that's what I was doing all day. I really don't understand...I don't think you're mafia just cause you're playing so randomly and loud but at the same time that's so WIFOM...for all I know, in a few hours, you're going to jump to trying to lynch someone else...can someone else weigh in on this? I'm confused as fuck on Pandain's actions. What do you think GGQ...I just don't even...sigh Pandain, can you explain what your logic was for your actions on Day 1? Would make my life easier.
It's called creating your own information. Day 1 is all about that. In most day 1's, we have no information at all. With the exception of Nemesis, all of my accusations day 1 were not serious, they were just to get them talking as well as generate discussion from others. I do this in all my games as town, I pressure people until they talk enough. For example, the reason why I unvoted Nemesis and waited was to see if he would actually start to help scum hunt.
Take me out of the equation. What information would we have had?
As for Jackal, he's my number two suspect. However I think he is being too "brazen" for a scum. Like saying I'm mafia "100%", what mafia would do that? Mafia want to seem level headed, not "omg this guy is red 100%".
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On January 24 2011 16:10 GGQ wrote:
##vote Jackal58
Justify yourself, please.
Sure
##Vote: Pandain
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Posting from airport, should be home in time for tonight. Quick thoughts:
- Since it's quite possibly lylo, dt should claim if he has found red. Another night of check won't help us if we have already lost. Also please stop us if we are about to lynch someone you have found town. Personally i doubt we have any dt's, but hey...
- It appears Gmarshal claimed to have gotten roleblocked, so we should probably not look at lynching him tonight. We have atleast 2 other reds to look into.
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On January 25 2011 00:50 Barundar wrote:
Posting from airport, should be home in time for tonight. Quick thoughts:
- Since it's quite possibly lylo, dt should claim if he has found red. Another night of check won't help us if we have already lost. Also please stop us if we are about to lynch someone you have found town. Personally i doubt we have any dt's, but hey...
- It appears Gmarshal claimed to have gotten roleblocked, so we should probably not look at lynching him tonight. We have atleast 2 other reds to look into.
Who do ya have in mind as the 3rd one?
In my mind it's Pandain #1. Nobody is that unlucky.
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On January 25 2011 01:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 00:50 Barundar wrote:
Posting from airport, should be home in time for tonight. Quick thoughts:
- Since it's quite possibly lylo, dt should claim if he has found red. Another night of check won't help us if we have already lost. Also please stop us if we are about to lynch someone you have found town. Personally i doubt we have any dt's, but hey...
- It appears Gmarshal claimed to have gotten roleblocked, so we should probably not look at lynching him tonight. We have atleast 2 other reds to look into. Who do ya have in mind as the 3rd one? In my mind it's Pandain #1. Nobody is that unlucky.
What do you mean nobody is that unlucky?
You mean because I thought LSB was red on day 1, and then it turns out he's green? Let me repeat on day 1?
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It's called creating your own information. Day 1 is all about that. In most day 1's, we have no information at all. With the exception of Nemesis, all of my accusations day 1 were not serious, they were just to get them talking as well as generate discussion from others. I do this in all my games as town, I pressure people until they talk enough. For example, the reason why I unvoted Nemesis and waited was to see if he would actually start to help scum hunt.
If they weren't serious, why did you vote for Shockey? And why did you switch to LSB, not Nemesis, if he was the exception? Something's not adding up...
Take me out of the equation. What information would we have had?
We still have no information...just you saying that you think Nemesis is mafia with no real solid backing, in my opinion. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like you're grasping at empty straws. Post a better analysis please. And leave out the "he didn't scum hunt, only went after inactives" argument, it's getting stale.
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On January 25 2011 01:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 00:50 Barundar wrote:
Posting from airport, should be home in time for tonight. Quick thoughts:
- Since it's quite possibly lylo, dt should claim if he has found red. Another night of check won't help us if we have already lost. Also please stop us if we are about to lynch someone you have found town. Personally i doubt we have any dt's, but hey...
- It appears Gmarshal claimed to have gotten roleblocked, so we should probably not look at lynching him tonight. We have atleast 2 other reds to look into. Who do ya have in mind as the 3rd one? In my mind it's Pandain #1. Nobody is that unlucky.
My analysis of him is town, his play style is similar to mafia xxxv with plenty of finger pointing and vote switching. Even the being wrong part is similar. Unless he screws up majorly I'm convinced that this is just his town play.
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On January 25 2011 01:22 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +It's called creating your own information. Day 1 is all about that. In most day 1's, we have no information at all. With the exception of Nemesis, all of my accusations day 1 were not serious, they were just to get them talking as well as generate discussion from others. I do this in all my games as town, I pressure people until they talk enough. For example, the reason why I unvoted Nemesis and waited was to see if he would actually start to help scum hunt. If they weren't serious, why did you vote for Shockey? And why did you switch to LSB, not Nemesis, if he was the exception? Something's not adding up... We still have no information...just you saying that you think Nemesis is mafia with no real solid backing, in my opinion. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like you're grasping at empty straws. Post a better analysis please. And leave out the "he didn't scum hunt, only went after inactives" argument, it's getting stale.
I voted for Shockkey because I didn't want to have a tie. Note how I never accused Shockkey, I defended him. Yet between lynching a person I FELT was a "bad" townie(I'm using that word lightly), and not lynching at all, the choice was obvious.
As for Nemesis, I agree. I'm not certain about anyone. However Nemesis is my best bet, and that's why I'm voting him. Playing vastly different from his previous playstyle when town, going for the easy lynch, and just general scum traits(which you don't want me to talk about), lead him to be my #1 suspect. However of course, its day 2. Do you have anyone better?
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On January 25 2011 00:50 Barundar wrote:
Posting from airport, should be home in time for tonight. Quick thoughts:
- Since it's quite possibly lylo, dt should claim if he has found red. Another night of check won't help us if we have already lost. Also please stop us if we are about to lynch someone you have found town. Personally i doubt we have any dt's, but hey...
- It appears Gmarshal claimed to have gotten roleblocked, so we should probably not look at lynching him tonight. We have atleast 2 other reds to look into.
I missed this first time through. Not in your post but in Gmarshal's. If he does have a role we can probably assume we'll never benefit from it. I feel we're back to XXXV. No blues.
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Ah darn it, this is starting to become a bad trend. Deadline for major project on my university is about ~1 week from now so I can't see how I can participate in this game without going that unhelpful-doing-unexplained-actions-in-one-lines route which I absolutely cannot see contributing to the town's well-being.
Thereafter, I will be asking for replacement and will take the ban if necessary. Really not happy about this as I truly wanted to annihilate mafia- I really did
Quickly throwing out my last nugget of contribution before I disappear: my gut tells that Pandain is town. Admittedly I did not even choose to iso him yet, so feel free to judge this opinion with some degree of skepticism :p
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Goddamnit Hess...it's like 6 hours till the vote. You couldn't last 5 more hours?
After much deliberation I've decided to vote Pandain. It was hard but it ultimately came down to this question:
Show nested quote +It's called creating your own information. Day 1 is all about that. In most day 1's, we have no information at all. With the exception of Nemesis, all of my accusations day 1 were not serious, they were just to get them talking as well as generate discussion from others. I do this in all my games as town, I pressure people until they talk enough. For example, the reason why I unvoted Nemesis and waited was to see if he would actually start to help scum hunt. If they weren't serious, why did you vote for Shockey? And why did you switch to LSB, not Nemesis, if he was the exception? Something's not adding up...
If you were only serious about Nemesis, why vote for Shockey? Why switch to LSB? Could have broken the tie with a vote on Nemesis as well. If you're town, please don't play like this in the future, there are better ways of getting info and conversation. If you're mafia, nice try, but just cause you played the same style as previous games does not mean much to me. I don't enjoy looking at things from a meta-perspective and I think some games are lost solely because people depend too much on it, especially if they only looked at it in a shallow manner.
##Vote: Pandain
Going to class, it ends at 9:30. Hopefully I'll be back before 10.
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I was serious on LSB too >.>. Sorry if I can't remember all of the 5 people I pressured.
And how could I have broken the tie with a vote on nemesis? If I switched to nemesis, Shockkey still would've gotten lynched.
As for my playstyle, I heavily disagree. I feel I have done well this game so far, albeit I admit whether Nemesis is mafia will determine just how well I've gone. I've been THE most active player this game, generated the most information(and how is it bad for town, getting people to talk is ALWAYS good).
Great, now if even one townie voted for me, we lose.
Jackal, if you're really serious about wanting me lynched, and not just mafia, then please respond to my coments to you. You still have really nothing that you yourself are lynching me for besides "I'm unlucky"(got one thing wrong? wtf?).
And still, I'm the only person actually trying to scum hunt. I'm the only person pressuring people.
How am I mafia?
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hai jackal u just posted in the other mafia game -.-
sup?
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On January 25 2011 07:09 Pandain wrote:
I was serious on LSB too >.>. Sorry if I can't remember all of the 5 people I pressured.
And how could I have broken the tie with a vote on nemesis? If I switched to nemesis, Shockkey still would've gotten lynched.
As for my playstyle, I heavily disagree. I feel I have done well this game so far, albeit I admit whether Nemesis is mafia will determine just how well I've gone. I've been THE most active player this game, generated the most information(and how is it bad for town, getting people to talk is ALWAYS good).
Great, now if even one townie voted for me, we lose.
Jackal, if you're really serious about wanting me lynched, and not just mafia, then please respond to my coments to you. You still have really nothing that you yourself are lynching me for besides "I'm unlucky"(got one thing wrong? wtf?).
And still, I'm the only person actually trying to scum hunt. I'm the only person pressuring people.
How am I mafia?
You didn't miss one. You missed two. Shockevvy = green
LSB = Green and then BC mod killed = green. You were voting for all 3 at various times. Pushing hard for LSB and then voting Shockevvy when you were afraid of a tie. It's just too convenient.
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United States22154 Posts
##Vote Nemesis
Nemesis is the only player that feels defiantly scummy to me, Pandain I don't have a definite feel for, and I feel like people are jumping on him for being mistaken, rather than actually acting scummy. I think Jackal is just acting like a hyper aggressive townie, it is possible he is mafia, but I believe he is just town, and happens to be tunneling on another member of the town.
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On January 25 2011 07:21 Pandain wrote:
hai jackal u just posted in the other mafia game -.-
sup?
I'm at work. My posting opportunities are hit or miss.
I'll be home in about an hour and a half. Will be able to put more time into it.
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On January 25 2011 07:23 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 07:09 Pandain wrote:
I was serious on LSB too >.>. Sorry if I can't remember all of the 5 people I pressured.
And how could I have broken the tie with a vote on nemesis? If I switched to nemesis, Shockkey still would've gotten lynched.
As for my playstyle, I heavily disagree. I feel I have done well this game so far, albeit I admit whether Nemesis is mafia will determine just how well I've gone. I've been THE most active player this game, generated the most information(and how is it bad for town, getting people to talk is ALWAYS good).
Great, now if even one townie voted for me, we lose.
Jackal, if you're really serious about wanting me lynched, and not just mafia, then please respond to my coments to you. You still have really nothing that you yourself are lynching me for besides "I'm unlucky"(got one thing wrong? wtf?).
And still, I'm the only person actually trying to scum hunt. I'm the only person pressuring people.
How am I mafia? You didn't miss one. You missed two. Shockevvy = green LSB = Green and then BC mod killed = green. You were voting for all 3 at various times. Pushing hard for LSB and then voting Shockevvy when you were afraid of a tie. It's just too convenient.
Let's see:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=9#162-say shockkey is town
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=9#174
I THINK lsb is mafia
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#145
That is the only post in which I voted shockkey, and note how I said I don't think he's mafia, but didn't have anyone else to vote for. Later on I thought LSB was our best bet, so I tried for him.
As for BC, originally I thought he was scummy(and keep in mind when I say that I mean keeping in mind that its day1), but then when he was like "you guys have to learN" instead of the typical"I'm busy", that made me think he's town.
Are you really voting me because I was wrong on day1? Because I got ONE person wrong on day 1?
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Well I managed to come home a bit early. Ok, I can't believe I'm wasting my 1500th post on you Pandain.
First of all, you still haven't addressed my post. I also have to add that you are playing like the way you were playing Insane Mafia when you were hyper aggressive and basically mostly used WIFOM as your argument to FoS DoctorH. A lot of your arguments Day 1 was pretty much WIFOM. "He's not contributing so he must be scum" was your main argument for all your FOS.
Just to address your reasons for voting me:
On January 24 2011 11:31 Pandain wrote:Why I believe Nemesis is mafia.Summary: Nemesis to me is scum. From "contributing without really contributing", weak contribution compared to his previous game(such as lack of analysis) to his general posts this game, Nemesis has been playing scummy. Note how when he was town he would contribute alot, and I even waited a day for Nemesis to perhaps post something, but its very likely in my eyes that he's scum, and just wanted the day to go by.
I'm unsure about nearly everyone, but Nemesis in my eyes is our best bet. An analysis of his posts this game + Show Spoiler +On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I don't like this post. I'm going to be a little lenient since it's a somewhat confusing concept, but again, we don't want to lynch inactives. We want to lynch lurkers. Every person we lynch who's "inactive." is not going to be mafia. On January 20 2011 22:30 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:24 Jackal58 wrote:On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I would argue that lynching the most active players on day 1 is a mistake. Unless of course active player A states "I am scum" which probably isn't going to happen. Duh, of course lynching the most active player day 1 is not the best idea ever (I suggested lynching inactives), but I am saying that we shouldn't be afraid to lynch active players. We shouldn't focus too much on what blues should do. We don't know what blue roles there are and blues will do what they think is best anyways. We should just focus more on scumhunting than whatever blue plans. Okay, focus on scum hunting. However, Nemesis hasn't scum hunted or helped with blues. On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. Explains himself, but the main problem about this post is his vote. Votes with a one line answer, going for the easy lynch. On January 21 2011 10:53 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it. First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do. I believe that I've already went through this, and I'm not gonna repeat myself.When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored. You are just arguing semantics here. Besides, you can't exactly tell a lurker from an inactive unless they make it obvious.If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond. IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond. Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post. If they don't respond, that does not necessarily mean that they are bored townies. Just take a look at TMM3. Subversion(he was red that game) claimed he was roleblocked, and then disappeared afterwards. There were plenty of FoS on him after that, and he was up for lynch next day, but he still didn't respond. It is pretty much impossible to tell the difference between a lurker and an inactive townie.Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill. There was pretty much nothing else that people were discussing about. I gave my opinion on what we were currently talking about. What else could I have added to the discussion? It is not like anyone else was trying to generate new topic. At least I was trying to further the discussion.
I just woke up, I was still half-asleep when I checked this forum. I rather dislike it when town loses because everyone is inactive, and when I saw Shockeyy post "sorry I'm inactive, I promise I'll be active later," I wanted to pressure him to make sure that he actually keeps his promise and doesn't disappear as soon as we forget about him.This is typical mafia to me. I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. Okay, note what he's saying. 1."I'm just pressuring Shockkey". Yet Nemesis never ends up unvoting him, despite Shockkey becoming considerably more active. 2."Hey, no one else is adding new content." Well for one, that doesn't give you an excuse at all and second, you've done some pretty decent analysis in previous games. Furthormore, other people had actually been actively talking about stuff. On January 21 2011 11:17 Nemesis wrote:
Pandain all you did is define inactive/lurker. You still haven't answered how we can differentiate between them.You are just repeating the same points over and over again without really answering that question.
The only thing that we can really do is prevent everyone from heading that way in the first place by pressuring/lynching inactives. Keeps saying "Lynch inactives!" Again, we want to lynch lurkers. But that's really moot, and it's more the philosophy of how to play mafia rather than mafia itself. Notice how rather than actually contributing at all Nemesis has just defended himself and argued over the definitions. You were the one who was arguing over the definition, you basically derailed the thread with your whole lurkers/inactive thing.On January 22 2011 12:52 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 12:42 Hesmyrr wrote:On January 22 2011 12:35 Nemesis wrote:
Ok wait, why are people voting for LSB?
This is a rather a bit of a weird bandwagon. There has been too much speculation on people's actions so far. It's day 1, and people are trying to analyze out of a few posts.
Shockeyy is pulling an OMGUS. Barundar is just bandwagoning. Pandain just seems to be flip flopping looking for a target that people are willing to follow him with. Would you consider voting for GMarshal if someone else votes for him? I'd ask you to switch now but then it becomes 3-3 tie which is the last thing I want. Want to avoid LSB lynch for now since I did not analyze him much, and this bandwagon seems to have come out of nowhere. I am not really sure about voting for Gmarshal. He seems to be trying a bit of forced activity, but at least he is trying, while shockeyy on the other hand has pretty much been useless. Note how Shockkey has by this point actually been contributing somewhat. At least more than Nemesis. He's changed from "just make sure he doesn't dissapear" to "lynch him, he's useless." And what exactly has shockey contributed? All that shockeyy contributed is pull an OMGUS on LSB and then disappeared again. At this point, I refuse to believe that you are just a bad townie, since you are now making stuff up.
Also who would you rather have my lynch at that point of the game? The only other people that was up for lynch was Gmarshal and LSB, both of which I didn't think was scummy.On January 23 2011 03:58 Nemesis wrote:
Hmmm, town is in a bit of a bad position right now with BC getting modkilled.
Right now it is
6-3
5-3 (after tonight)
3-3 (the next day if we mislynch)
So next day is pretty much LYLO, unless medic succesfully protects someone. We need to be careful about the next lynch and not be too rash. States the obvious. Show nested quote +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7478150 Contributes ALOT On January 05 2011 09:54 Nemesis wrote:On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote:
I apologize for being busy.
So we're having a day 1 lynch without any starting information huh. An open setup with unknown roleblockers gives a disadvantage to the town, but as the saying goes, "a challenge means god's afraid of your progress"
All right, lets see.
...
Looking at the past two pages, there's nothing to analyze. There's only been two votes, and the only discussion has been whether to lynch inactives.
no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage.
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. Orgolove comes in, makes one long post and then disappears. If you actually look at his post, he doesn't really say anything except "there's nothing to analyze." and disagrees with lynching inactives without really adding any more. Basically he makes a long post that doesn't really say anything. ##Unvote: Team 3
##Vote: Team 9 Flamewheel/Orgolove gives a decent reason and vote http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7517284contributes alot again Note how he failed to mention that flamewheel/orgolove turned up townie even though I had a "good" reason to vote him. What I realized that game is that it is pointless to analyze base on a few post on day 1, which is why I went for who I think would be a useless person to town later in the game(inactives). Also, it would also have the benefit of encouraging activity.
You want analysis? I've been doing analysis since I've come online this day phase. You are just drawing at straws for me not having been online during the first 15 hours or so of day phase.
In summary, Pandain is making a lot of shit up and is mafia.
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Also, chaoser, I have yet to see your analysis on me that you so promised me.
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And Hesmyrr, wtf we have like 4 hours left. :/
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1. Jackal58-What he says doesn't make alot of sense. He could just be really confused, but for instance saying I thought Shockkey was town. So either he is just not understanding everything, or is mafia.
2. Barundar I'm unsure too. But he just isn't as active as before, and while he's done "an" analysis, he isn't really "active" per se. Like he's not actively trying to figure everything out, and seems like he's just chillaxing.
3. Hesmyrr-long analysis, getting replace when you wouldn't need to when mafia(as mafia, don't need to do so much thinking and "real" analysis.
6. Pandain
7. GGQ- Unsure, but he seems to fit his playstyle as town, albeit he's more active/seems to contribute more this game. I think he's town, but unsure.
8. Chaoser- still not getting a "good read", but my gut tells me he's town. Well actually my gut says he's mafia, but my logic says he's town :p. Contributes alot, and really theres only one thing that I can really say might prove:1.Not defending me when he switched to shockkey as well(albeit thats a small thing)..
9. Nemesis Ironically I'm not as sure as before, but I don't really have anyone else that I'm more sure of.
10. GMarshalFor one his vote on Nemesis. If he was mafia, then that means that out of the 3 votes on me, at least one would be town. That means if Gmarshall had voted me, he could've just said "yeah I think he's scum" and gotten me lynched. And mafia would win the game as long as no one got vigi'd/no vet hit/medic protection. Finally has contributed at least a decent amount.
Here's the current list from my perspective.
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What do you think of Barundar, Nemesis?
Or jackal?
Maybe I'm tunneling a bit.
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Actually now I don't think Barundar is mafia. I didn't realize he was at an airport.
Which also means your more likely scum based on my list.
First off, the fact is you really haven't analyzed at all, contrary to beforehand. Just because you got someone wrong doesn't mean you stop trying. Then you've said "well even if he wasn't scummy, then who would I lynch". The point is you find new people.
And I'm tired of people saying I'm derailing the thread so much. Like last time, with my fake claim. People hardly even talked about that, and in return it could've guranteed about 3 days worth of blue actions. Plus at least it generated discussion.
And now just because we're talking about "lynching inactives:yes or no" and the typical day 1 jazz, just because I helped forward that discussion, I'm derailing the thread.
As for what Shockkey had contributed:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=5#100
A semi analysis on you
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#150
A decent post
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#153
Showed he had been at least helping somewhat
Shockkey had started contributing, that isn't a lie.
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Barundar, I am slightly of suspicious of him. He seems to be lurking(or inactive) quite a bit, and he suddenly seemed to bandwagon with you on your vote for LSB.
jackal, I just took a quick skim over his posts right now. And hmm, he seems to be posting a lot but most of his post seems to be either stating the obvious or useless one liners.
He put some FoS on bc, hesmyrr, and ggq for not contributing but doesn't vote for them. He then proceeds to vote for you but doesn't really say why beyond I'm suspicious of him, and then disappears.
He seems to be lurking quite a bit too. He's been going under the radar for a while now with his "contributing without really contributing" play style.
Hmm, I think he is scummy, but my main bet is still on you Pandain.
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Frick.
I'm 75% sure out of you and Jackal, one or both of you are mafia .
Cmon, where are other people? Why am I always nearly alone in trying to figure stuff out?
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I'm sorry but you call shockeyy's posts contributing?
The first post that you mentioned was I admit that he was at least trying.
But really he only responds when he is called out. It was the same thing with the other 2 post that you mentioned. His second post was an OMGUS for him having "2 jobs and school", and his last post is counting the number of post to "prove" he's not lurking/inactive which is pretty useless as it doesn't take into account the content of the posts.
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Hmm where is everyone? :X
We can't win this game without people actually voting :/
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On January 25 2011 08:46 Nemesis wrote:
I'm sorry but you call shockeyy's posts contributing?
The first post that you mentioned was I admit that he was at least trying.
But really he only responds when he is called out. It was the same thing with the other 2 post that you mentioned. His second post was an OMGUS for him having "2 jobs and school", and his last post is counting the number of post to "prove" he's not lurking/inactive which is pretty useless as it doesn't take into account the content of the posts.
Which is the same as you. You've really only been either defending(and then attacking) from your accuser(me.)
I'm going to be honest I literally I have no idea what to do right now. BC getting modkilled was .
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On January 25 2011 08:48 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 08:46 Nemesis wrote:
I'm sorry but you call shockeyy's posts contributing?
The first post that you mentioned was I admit that he was at least trying.
But really he only responds when he is called out. It was the same thing with the other 2 post that you mentioned. His second post was an OMGUS for him having "2 jobs and school", and his last post is counting the number of post to "prove" he's not lurking/inactive which is pretty useless as it doesn't take into account the content of the posts. Which is the same as you. You've really only been either defending(and then attacking) from your accuser(me.) I'm going to be honest I literally I have no idea what to do right now. BC getting modkilled was .
I only had 2 post defending myself day 1. As for day 2, I don't exactly have much of a choice when I'm one the current lynch target right now.
I am not attacking you for attacking me. I really think that you are scum, just like my back and forth with L in Insane.
Bzzz, well I'm going to be heading over to the other mafia game until someone actually comes on.
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If anyone wants to replace in for Hesmyrr, or knows anyone who wants to replace in, shoot me a PM. Preferably, Hesmyrr would find his own replacement. Otherwise I'm just going to be forced to modkill.
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United States22154 Posts
Well, at this point I've made my stance pretty clear, I dont think Pandain is mafia based on the analysis I did, nothing of his comes off as really scummy and its easy to mislynch day one, so I wont hold it against him (I thought LSB was fishy that day too). The thing is I'm really unsure about who is scum, just as in the start of the day the only person I was certain was town was Hesmyrr, he's still the only person I am convinced is town. I'm going to hold on to my vote for nemesis because he is the person I feel is the scummyest, but I'm not 100% sure(hell I'm not even 30% sure, but its all I have to go on), as far as I can tell mafia is GGQ, Nemesis and Barundar, I'm convinced jackal isn't mafia because if he is he is playing really poorly, mafia do not usually go hyper aggressive on us. GGQ just feels like he is lurking for me which is why he is on my mafia list for now.
and in all seriousness people, vote, its going to suck if half the people here are modkilled, no?
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On January 25 2011 07:50 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 07:23 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 07:09 Pandain wrote:
I was serious on LSB too >.>. Sorry if I can't remember all of the 5 people I pressured.
And how could I have broken the tie with a vote on nemesis? If I switched to nemesis, Shockkey still would've gotten lynched.
As for my playstyle, I heavily disagree. I feel I have done well this game so far, albeit I admit whether Nemesis is mafia will determine just how well I've gone. I've been THE most active player this game, generated the most information(and how is it bad for town, getting people to talk is ALWAYS good).
Great, now if even one townie voted for me, we lose.
Jackal, if you're really serious about wanting me lynched, and not just mafia, then please respond to my coments to you. You still have really nothing that you yourself are lynching me for besides "I'm unlucky"(got one thing wrong? wtf?).
And still, I'm the only person actually trying to scum hunt. I'm the only person pressuring people.
How am I mafia? You didn't miss one. You missed two. Shockevvy = green LSB = Green and then BC mod killed = green. You were voting for all 3 at various times. Pushing hard for LSB and then voting Shockevvy when you were afraid of a tie. It's just too convenient. Let's see: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=9#162-say shockkey is town http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=9#174I THINK lsb is mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#145That is the only post in which I voted shockkey, and note how I said I don't think he's mafia, but didn't have anyone else to vote for. Later on I thought LSB was our best bet, so I tried for him. As for BC, originally I thought he was scummy(and keep in mind when I say that I mean keeping in mind that its day1), but then when he was like "you guys have to learN" instead of the typical"I'm busy", that made me think he's town. Are you really voting me because I was wrong on day1? Because I got ONE person wrong on day 1?
No you're scummy for encouraging a tie breaker when it was painfully obvious that BC was going to be mod killed.
On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie
Why couldn't we? There are only 11 of us at the start. Why not have a tie? Why not let BC be mod killed and no lynch. If BC was red we win. If BC was green we lose 1. But you wanted 2. A freebie. There is no other reason for pushing a lynch 5 minutes before a mod kill was going to happen. Unless of course you're scum. If you were town your reasons make no sense what so ever and just by dumb luck we should have hit a red.
On January 22 2011 12:59 Pandain wrote:
Fadoodle
##Unvote LSB
##Vote Shockkey
And this one. Sure just in case BC does show up in the next five minutes you're making sure there is no possibility of a tie.
You are mafia. 100% through and through.
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Except again, I would rather lynch a person who wouldn't contribute THAT much anyway, than not lynch at all. And how am I encouraging a tie breaker? By trying to save Shockkey, who later turned green?
Finally, I thought BC was green. So I didn't want him lynched anyway.
What your doing right now is analyzing me in the MINDSET that I'm mafia, rather than in the mindset of "I'll find out." My actions make just as much sense when you put them in the perspective of "Pandain is town."
Finally, that was my vote, since no one else was changing. Since they didn't make a choice, I had to. And it was better to lynch an inactive, then not lynch at all.
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On January 25 2011 08:21 Pandain wrote:
1. Jackal58-What he says doesn't make alot of sense. He could just be really confused, but for instance saying I thought Shockkey was town. So either he is just not understanding everything, or is mafia.
I didn't say it. You said it.
On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:
Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
Right there. And you said it again after that.
Hang this scum.
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On January 25 2011 09:28 Pandain wrote:
Except again, I would rather lynch a person who wouldn't contribute THAT much anyway, than not lynch at all. And how am I encouraging a tie breaker? By trying to save Shockkey, who later turned green?
Finally, I thought BC was green. So I didn't want him lynched anyway.
What your doing right now is analyzing me in the MINDSET that I'm mafia, rather than in the mindset of "I'll find out." My actions make just as much sense when you put them in the perspective of "Pandain is town."
Finally, that was my vote, since no one else was changing. Since they didn't make a choice, I had to. And it was better to lynch an inactive, then not lynch at all.
There are only two possible reasons for the way you played day 1. ! is you're mafia. 2 is you're an idiot. I think 1 is the most likely scenario.
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That's actually an honest mistake. You can tell by looking at the post above, which says "This is where I say Shockkey is town". You however said I was unlucky with Shockkey because I thought he was red.
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On January 25 2011 09:31 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 09:28 Pandain wrote:
Except again, I would rather lynch a person who wouldn't contribute THAT much anyway, than not lynch at all. And how am I encouraging a tie breaker? By trying to save Shockkey, who later turned green?
Finally, I thought BC was green. So I didn't want him lynched anyway.
What your doing right now is analyzing me in the MINDSET that I'm mafia, rather than in the mindset of "I'll find out." My actions make just as much sense when you put them in the perspective of "Pandain is town."
Finally, that was my vote, since no one else was changing. Since they didn't make a choice, I had to. And it was better to lynch an inactive, then not lynch at all. There are only two possible reasons for the way you played day 1. ! is you're mafia. 2 is you're an idiot. I think 1 is the most likely scenario.
How about you actually answer the content rather than say "If you do that your an idiot".
I don't deny I'm an idiot, but at least show me the way.
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And my apologies if you think I'm too aggressive.I am aggressive.
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On January 25 2011 09:32 Pandain wrote:
That's actually an honest mistake. You can tell by looking at the post above, which says "This is where I say Shockkey is town". You however said I was unlucky with Shockkey because I thought he was red.
No. I said if you were town you were the unluckiest person ever. I've never commented on what you believe or why. My comments are all based on your day one rush to lynch. It only makes sense if you're red. Quit putting words in my mouth.
On January 25 2011 09:32 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 09:31 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 09:28 Pandain wrote:
Except again, I would rather lynch a person who wouldn't contribute THAT much anyway, than not lynch at all. And how am I encouraging a tie breaker? By trying to save Shockkey, who later turned green?
Finally, I thought BC was green. So I didn't want him lynched anyway.
What your doing right now is analyzing me in the MINDSET that I'm mafia, rather than in the mindset of "I'll find out." My actions make just as much sense when you put them in the perspective of "Pandain is town."
Finally, that was my vote, since no one else was changing. Since they didn't make a choice, I had to. And it was better to lynch an inactive, then not lynch at all. There are only two possible reasons for the way you played day 1. ! is you're mafia. 2 is you're an idiot. I think 1 is the most likely scenario. How about you actually answer the content rather than say "If you do that your an idiot". I don't deny I'm an idiot, but at least show me the way.
I did answer it. How much more clear can I be in my reasons? Flail all you want.
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GMarshal, Pandain is playing like he was playing in Insane Mafia this game. He usually at least has decent(although not the best) analysis in his town games.
And it would really suck if hesmyrr got modkilled :/
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On January 25 2011 09:38 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 09:32 Pandain wrote:
That's actually an honest mistake. You can tell by looking at the post above, which says "This is where I say Shockkey is town". You however said I was unlucky with Shockkey because I thought he was red. No. I said if you were town you were the unluckiest person ever. I've never commented on what you believe or why. My comments are all based on your day one rush to lynch. It only makes sense if you're red. Quit putting words in my mouth. Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 09:32 Pandain wrote:On January 25 2011 09:31 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 09:28 Pandain wrote:
Except again, I would rather lynch a person who wouldn't contribute THAT much anyway, than not lynch at all. And how am I encouraging a tie breaker? By trying to save Shockkey, who later turned green?
Finally, I thought BC was green. So I didn't want him lynched anyway.
What your doing right now is analyzing me in the MINDSET that I'm mafia, rather than in the mindset of "I'll find out." My actions make just as much sense when you put them in the perspective of "Pandain is town."
Finally, that was my vote, since no one else was changing. Since they didn't make a choice, I had to. And it was better to lynch an inactive, then not lynch at all. There are only two possible reasons for the way you played day 1. ! is you're mafia. 2 is you're an idiot. I think 1 is the most likely scenario. How about you actually answer the content rather than say "If you do that your an idiot". I don't deny I'm an idiot, but at least show me the way. I did answer it. How much more clear can I be in my reasons? Flail all you want.
I said why am I unlucky. You said(or what did you mean) by that is because I thought shockkey was red.
On January 25 2011 07:23 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 07:09 Pandain wrote:
I was serious on LSB too >.>. Sorry if I can't remember all of the 5 people I pressured.
And how could I have broken the tie with a vote on nemesis? If I switched to nemesis, Shockkey still would've gotten lynched.
As for my playstyle, I heavily disagree. I feel I have done well this game so far, albeit I admit whether Nemesis is mafia will determine just how well I've gone. I've been THE most active player this game, generated the most information(and how is it bad for town, getting people to talk is ALWAYS good).
Great, now if even one townie voted for me, we lose.
Jackal, if you're really serious about wanting me lynched, and not just mafia, then please respond to my coments to you. You still have really nothing that you yourself are lynching me for besides "I'm unlucky"(got one thing wrong? wtf?).
And still, I'm the only person actually trying to scum hunt. I'm the only person pressuring people.
How am I mafia? You didn't miss one. You missed two. Shockevvy = green LSB = Green and then BC mod killed = green. You were voting for all 3 at various times. Pushing hard for LSB and then voting Shockevvy when you were afraid of a tie. It's just too convenient.
Here you say I'm unlucky because I missed three. However, I thought Shockkey and BC were green. So because I got one person wrong ON DAY 1, for the love of god its day 1, I'm red?
And what do you mean "day 1 rush to lynch"
Furthormore, how many times do I have to say that the day 1 analysis was mostly forced up until I offered Nemesis as a viable lynched, because I was just generating discussion.
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cross out i said why am i unlucky. I don't know what I mean by that
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And what do you mean "day 1 rush to lynch"
Furthormore, how many times do I have to say that the day 1 analysis was mostly forced up until I offered Nemesis as a viable lynched, because I was just generating discussion.
On January 22 2011 12:58 Pandain wrote:
make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie
On January 22 2011 12:59 Pandain wrote:
Fadoodle
##Unvote LSB
##Vote Shockkey
That rush. Town was going lose 1. That wasn't good enough for you.
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Wth?
Just because someone was probably going to get modkilled means its suddenly okay if no lynch happens?
There was no discussion on BC(besides my SLIGHT accusation which I later revoked.) Him dying told us nothing. And I thought he was town.
Part of why lynches are so important is because it provides us information. Otherwise, we're still in the dark.
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##vote nemesis
Im going to go with my gut. Where the hell is ggq?
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It's a numbers game. What were you going to learn from lynching a person you though was green when another person you thought was green was about to be mod killed? You weren't going to learn anything but you sure saw a shift in balance that availed itself to you. Gj.
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On January 25 2011 10:24 Barundar wrote:
##vote nemesis
Im going to go with my gut. Where the hell is ggq?
He'll show up 5 minutes before vote just like day 1.
He's #2 on my list.
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Yeah, so at the very least what do we find out:
Keeping in mind its day 1, meaning I'm only 60-75% sure he's town, meaning theres still a chance he's mafia. And at the very least a useless townie.
Keeping in mind that if BC, who i thought was green, died, then it would be as if we started off a townie down, and mafia got a free hit.
Keeping in mind that its better at the very least to lynch than not lynch, when a modkill won't gurantee us any information...
I don't see why you're so insistent on believing I'm mafia. Either your scum or tunneling, and need to think.
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On January 25 2011 10:31 Pandain wrote:
Yeah, so at the very least what do we find out:
Keeping in mind its day 1, meaning I'm only 60-75% sure he's town, meaning theres still a chance he's mafia. And at the very least a useless townie.
Keeping in mind that if BC, who i thought was green, died, then it would be as if we started off a townie down, and mafia got a free hit.
Keeping in mind that its better at the very least to lynch than not lynch, when a modkill won't gurantee us any information...
I don't see why you're so insistent on believing I'm mafia. Either your scum or tunneling, and need to think.
A lynch puts us into an almost immediate lylo on day 2. Why would a townie do that?
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On January 25 2011 10:39 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 10:31 Pandain wrote:
Yeah, so at the very least what do we find out:
Keeping in mind its day 1, meaning I'm only 60-75% sure he's town, meaning theres still a chance he's mafia. And at the very least a useless townie.
Keeping in mind that if BC, who i thought was green, died, then it would be as if we started off a townie down, and mafia got a free hit.
Keeping in mind that its better at the very least to lynch than not lynch, when a modkill won't gurantee us any information...
I don't see why you're so insistent on believing I'm mafia. Either your scum or tunneling, and need to think. A lynch puts us into an almost immediate lylo on day 2. Why would a townie do that?
Okay I'm sorry I don't have knowledge in hindsight to aid me.
You can tell the atmosphere of panic, there wasn't much time to think. What your saying is what would've been "ideal". Just because I didn't do that, and keep in mind no one even mentioned not lynching, so it was on NO ONE's mind. So why do you think I am to blame?
This is why I am a sad panda sometimes. Because I'm the most active, I get the blame for everything.
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On January 25 2011 10:47 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 10:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 10:31 Pandain wrote:
Yeah, so at the very least what do we find out:
Keeping in mind its day 1, meaning I'm only 60-75% sure he's town, meaning theres still a chance he's mafia. And at the very least a useless townie.
Keeping in mind that if BC, who i thought was green, died, then it would be as if we started off a townie down, and mafia got a free hit.
Keeping in mind that its better at the very least to lynch than not lynch, when a modkill won't gurantee us any information...
I don't see why you're so insistent on believing I'm mafia. Either your scum or tunneling, and need to think. A lynch puts us into an almost immediate lylo on day 2. Why would a townie do that? Okay I'm sorry I don't have knowledge in hindsight to aid me. You can tell the atmosphere of panic, there wasn't much time to think. What your saying is what would've been "ideal". Just because I didn't do that, and keep in mind no one even mentioned not lynching, so it was on NO ONE's mind. So why do you think I am to blame? This is why I am a sad panda sometimes. Because I'm the most active, I get the blame for everything.
Your activity hasn't been an issue. But the day 1 lynch can only be explained in 1 way. Well 2 but option 2 doesn't seem to fit. If I'm wrong it's only because you pulled an exceptionally bonehead play at the end of day 1 that guaranteed 3 dead town at the start of day 2. What else am I supposed to think?
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On January 25 2011 11:02 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 10:47 Pandain wrote:On January 25 2011 10:39 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 10:31 Pandain wrote:
Yeah, so at the very least what do we find out:
Keeping in mind its day 1, meaning I'm only 60-75% sure he's town, meaning theres still a chance he's mafia. And at the very least a useless townie.
Keeping in mind that if BC, who i thought was green, died, then it would be as if we started off a townie down, and mafia got a free hit.
Keeping in mind that its better at the very least to lynch than not lynch, when a modkill won't gurantee us any information...
I don't see why you're so insistent on believing I'm mafia. Either your scum or tunneling, and need to think. A lynch puts us into an almost immediate lylo on day 2. Why would a townie do that? Okay I'm sorry I don't have knowledge in hindsight to aid me. You can tell the atmosphere of panic, there wasn't much time to think. What your saying is what would've been "ideal". Just because I didn't do that, and keep in mind no one even mentioned not lynching, so it was on NO ONE's mind. So why do you think I am to blame? This is why I am a sad panda sometimes. Because I'm the most active, I get the blame for everything. Your activity hasn't been an issue. But the day 1 lynch can only be explained in 1 way. Well 2 but option 2 doesn't seem to fit. If I'm wrong it's only because you pulled an exceptionally bonehead play at the end of day 1 that guaranteed 3 dead town at the start of day 2. What else am I supposed to think?
Wtf?
How am I in charge of LSB's death?
How am I in charge of BC's deatH?
I'm not even in charge of Shockkeys death, I didn't even want that.
Furthormore, Shockkey was going to be lynched BEFORE I did anything. In fact, I only ALMOST saved him.
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If I was mafia, by your logic, I should've just let shockkey die.
Why, one hour beforehand, would I change.
Some people have said because I wanted to "kill a more active townie" but really I just wanted to save shockkey.
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You were aware that there was going to be a mod kill plus a night kill. Why add a lynch? The names aren't important. The numbers are.
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So how does the night kill affect me?
The mod kill just left us with a townie dead and no info. It's as if we started off a day late.
You're missing the point of day1:information. That's really the main thing about day 1. And lynches provide a crucial part.
I didn't want Shockkey to be lynched, I wanted LSB to be lynched(who I was wrong about on day 1). I tried to save shockkey an hour before(why would i do that as mafia). However, because I didn't want us to end up in the "one day later" scenario, I voted shockkey so at least in the 30-40% chance he was mafia, we would gain info. And in the scenario that he was town, we would still be instutituing the "no lurking" policy.
I'm sorry that I didn't realize it brought us to lylo. But as I'm going to point out again, no one else did.
And really, if you don't even acknowledge the possibility of what I'm saying is true, I give up -
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btw if hesmyrr is modkilled town loses me thinks
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Vote Tally for Day 2
Nemesis (3): Pandain, GMarshal, Barundar
Pandain (3): Nemesis, Jackal58, Chaoser
Jackal58 (1): GGQ
Hesmyrr needs to vote or will face the lightning. You have about thirty minutes.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Hesmyrr has been replaced by kitaman27.
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Bzzz, Pandain/jackal you guys are just repeating the same thing over and over again -.-
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Again we are faced with a tie. Mod kill has apparently been averted.
I'm going to be brutally honest and say that towns best interest atm is to allow the tie to go forward.
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On January 25 2011 11:43 Nemesis wrote:
Bzzz, Pandain/jackal you guys are just repeating the same thing over and over again -.-
Sorry. I've tried to stop but I'm like a moth to the flame.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Trying to read through the thread real quick......if someone wants to summarize the current situation that would be helpful ^_^
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On January 25 2011 11:43 Jackal58 wrote:
Again we are faced with a tie. Mod kill has apparently been averted.
I'm going to be brutally honest and say that towns best interest atm is to allow the tie to go forward.
Back from class. I concur, lets let it tie, it buys us a day and lets us have better chances at finding mafia.
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On January 25 2011 11:46 kitaman27 wrote:
Trying to read through the thread real quick......if someone wants to summarize the current situation that would be helpful ^_^
Me- No You
Pandain- No You.
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On January 25 2011 11:46 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 11:43 Jackal58 wrote:
Again we are faced with a tie. Mod kill has apparently been averted.
I'm going to be brutally honest and say that towns best interest atm is to allow the tie to go forward. Back from class. I concur, lets let it tie, it buys us a day and lets us have better chances at finding mafia.
I'm willing to admit that if I'm wrong on Pandain town loses. If we only lose one to NK we are still in control of our destiny with a much higher percentage of a righteous lynch tomorrow.
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And where the hell is ggq?
It doesn't seem like he's going to show up until last minute like last time :/
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He voted for me earlier today.
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Pandain instead of WIFOMing all this time about why you are NOT scum.
Maybe, you should follow your advice and scumhunt.
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United States22154 Posts
do you guys all want to switch our votes to ggq now?
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On January 25 2011 11:53 GMarshal wrote:do you guys all want to switch our votes to ggq now?
That would be too funny.
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Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled.
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kitaman put down a placeholder on yourself
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled.
Sigh you're going to hate me.
##vote nemesis
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis
unvote
##vote kita
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On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis
I'm only going to hate you if he flips green.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2011 12:00 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis I'm only going to hate you if he flips green.
looks like Barundar trumps my choice anyways.
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Hahahaha that was quite close, good thing my timer was perfect
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On January 25 2011 12:02 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 12:00 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis I'm only going to hate you if he flips green. looks like Barundar trumps my choice anyways.
He tied you. And then time ran out.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Vote Tally for Day 2
Nemesis (2): Pandain, GMarshal
Pandain (4): Nemesis, Jackal58, Chaoser, Barundar
Jackal58 (1): GGQ
kitaman27 (1): kitaman27
Pandain is to be lynched. Night post coming shortly.
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On January 25 2011 12:03 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 12:02 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 12:00 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis I'm only going to hate you if he flips green. looks like Barundar trumps my choice anyways. He tied you. And then time ran out.
Looks like you missed this
On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis unvote ##vote kita
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2011 12:04 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 12:03 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 12:02 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 12:00 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis I'm only going to hate you if he flips green. looks like Barundar trumps my choice anyways. He tied you. And then time ran out. Looks like you missed this Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis unvote ##vote kita
Didn't matter, would have been 4-3 anyways. I pulled off nemesis to try to figure out what happened, but time was out by then.
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On January 25 2011 12:04 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 12:03 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 12:02 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 12:00 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis I'm only going to hate you if he flips green. looks like Barundar trumps my choice anyways. He tied you. And then time ran out. Looks like you missed this Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:59 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:56 Nemesis wrote:
Gah, well at least we get one more day to rethink things if kitaman doesn't get modkilled that is.
At least put down a placeholder vote so you don't get modkilled. Sigh you're going to hate me. ##vote nemesis unvote ##vote kita
No I didn't.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
![[image loading]](http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs15/f/2007/114/7/f/The_City_by_Night_by_Mohain.jpg)
TL Mini Mafia IV: Night 2 Start
Don't you guys know that pandas are endangered? They're also really, really chill, like my AIM picture.
Pandain the Townie has been lynched.
Night actions, please.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2011 11:59 Barundar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Pandain
I think you've got some explaining to do?
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On January 25 2011 12:09 kitaman27 wrote:I think you've got some explaining to do?
He switched his vote to re-establish the tie. Then you changed yours.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2011 12:10 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 12:09 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:59 Barundar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Pandain I think you've got some explaining to do? He switched his vote to re-establish the tie. Then you changed yours.
No he didn't.
Nemesis (3): Pandain, GMarshal, kitaman27
Pandain (4): Nemesis, Jackal58, Chaoser, Barundar
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2011 12:02 Nemesis wrote:Hahahaha that was quite close, good thing my timer was perfect
Hmm, your timer?
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On January 25 2011 12:11 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 12:10 Jackal58 wrote:On January 25 2011 12:09 kitaman27 wrote:On January 25 2011 11:59 Barundar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Pandain I think you've got some explaining to do? He switched his vote to re-establish the tie. Then you changed yours. No he didn't. Nemesis (3): Pandain, GMarshal, kitaman27 Pandain (4): Nemesis, Jackal58, Chaoser, Barundar
He was voting for Nemesis until you did.
Moot point.
I'm as dumb as Pandain.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 25 2011 12:18 Barundar wrote:
Meh I fail at counting
So you're saying you were trying to tie up the vote after you saw my vote?
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On January 25 2011 12:19 kitaman27 wrote:So you're saying you were trying to tie up the vote after you saw my vote?
Saying fml.
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United States22154 Posts
so unless we get a successful medic protect its gg, right? we're down to 7 players and if 1 more green dies, we lose
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Or if we got a vet and they hit him
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
At least they revealed the Nemesis, Barundar, Jackal/chaoser scumteam with the ninja in the case that town does survive.
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Well we know who we lynching tomorrow if we survive. Nemesis.
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On January 25 2011 12:28 kitaman27 wrote:
At least they revealed the Nemesis, Barundar, Jackal/chaoser scumteam with the ninja in the case that town does survive.
Hi guys, busy as fuck today, genuinely sorry it took so long for me to get to this game. I apologize.
As kitaman27 just said, I think we're in a decent spot if town survives. Barundar apparently was willing to risk at least 2/3 mafia on the chance that they'll win tonight, but the game is still going so apparently we still have hope to see the morning. When Nemesis was going to be lynched 4:3, Barundar switched over to Pandain. Pandain was green. This should be clear enough that Baranduar and Nemesis are scum (looking back at their posts, Nemesis has been pretty scummy since the start, and Barundar has stayed pretty lurky with few posts and some questionable vote switching already on day 1). It is highly likely that the last scum is also voting for Pandain, which makes it either jackal58 or chaoser.
Jackal58 may be surprised to hear that I think the last mafia is almost certainly chaoser. The guy has been posting noncommittal, meaningless fluff since the start of the game. Far too cautious, he was also the first person to soft-defend Nemesis after Pandain's initial vote. chaoser has done little to no analysis, parroting things that others have already said, or making posts that say nothing at all.
IF we survive, we will need each lynch correct for the rest of the game. I strongly feel that these are our targets. What do you all think?
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On January 25 2011 13:02 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 12:28 kitaman27 wrote:
At least they revealed the Nemesis, Barundar, Jackal/chaoser scumteam with the ninja in the case that town does survive. Hi guys, busy as fuck today, genuinely sorry it took so long for me to get to this game. I apologize. As kitaman27 just said, I think we're in a decent spot if town survives. Barundar apparently was willing to risk at least 2/3 mafia on the chance that they'll win tonight, but the game is still going so apparently we still have hope to see the morning. When Nemesis was going to be lynched 4:3, Barundar switched over to Pandain. Pandain was green. This should be clear enough that Baranduar and Nemesis are scum (looking back at their posts, Nemesis has been pretty scummy since the start, and Barundar has stayed pretty lurky with few posts and some questionable vote switching already on day 1). It is highly likely that the last scum is also voting for Pandain, which makes it either jackal58 or chaoser. Jackal58 may be surprised to hear that I think the last mafia is almost certainly chaoser. The guy has been posting noncommittal, meaningless fluff since the start of the game. Far too cautious, he was also the first person to soft-defend Nemesis after Pandain's initial vote. chaoser has done little to no analysis, parroting things that others have already said, or making posts that say nothing at all. IF we survive, we will need each lynch correct for the rest of the game. I strongly feel that these are our targets. What do you all think?
Busing your own teammates and throwing me in as the last mafia huh? How convenient of you to suddenly post right after night starts with your vote yesterday on Jackal of all people.
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United States22154 Posts
I fully agree with GGQ, I think that Jackal was playing far too aggressive to be mafia, I actually suspected chaoser, but was waiting till our nemesis lynch panned out to make up my mind either way. So this means that mafia is almost certainly Nemesis, chaoser, and Barundar. I really hope we survive the night to start hanging them, but I dont think our chances are that good.
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URGH I wasn't aware of that. I thought deadline was more than >24 hrs for some reason. I'll try to find a replacement for myself too.
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On January 25 2011 22:28 Hesmyrr wrote:
URGH I wasn't aware of that. I thought deadline was more than >24 hrs for some reason. I'll try to find a replacement for myself too.
kitaman27 has already replaced you.
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On January 25 2011 23:13 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 22:28 Hesmyrr wrote:
URGH I wasn't aware of that. I thought deadline was more than >24 hrs for some reason. I'll try to find a replacement for myself too. kitaman27 has already replaced you.
Oh ok thanks.
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Barundar/Nemesis, anything to say for yourselves? Or are you just gonna stay quiet and hope your roleblocker hits doc tonight?
I doubt you'll convince anyone, but you might as well try.
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epic fail. LSB must remind himself that even with the 'preview function', he is probably forgetting something when trying to start a new topic. Please ignore these few posts.
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On January 26 2011 02:38 GGQ wrote:
Barundar/Nemesis, anything to say for yourselves? Or are you just gonna stay quiet and hope your roleblocker hits doc tonight?
I doubt you'll convince anyone, but you might as well try.
Hey I didn't afk all day yesterday. Nice of you to show up 5 min too late though?
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Wow, I've been bussed rather big time here.
Barundar suddenly ninjaing the vote to Pandain, and Pandain turning out to be green. And then ggq coming out right after night to lay the finishing blow on me. :/
If we survive through the night we should lynch barundar first, then we can discuss what to do later on.
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Ah, how convenient. All three of you OMGUS me and try to start casting suspicion on each other. Too late, guys. It's painful that we're still probably going to lose tonight when it's so obvious who the mafia are.
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On January 26 2011 05:38 GGQ wrote:
Ah, how convenient. All three of you OMGUS me and try to start casting suspicion on each other. Too late, guys. It's painful that we're still probably going to lose tonight when it's so obvious who the mafia are.
Don't know why they need to. It's going to be 3-3 shortly. Unless they already know their NK failed but I don't know how that half of the game works.
I'm going bowling. I'll be back around 10ish to find out if I wrecked our chances to win or not.
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On January 26 2011 08:38 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 05:38 GGQ wrote:
Ah, how convenient. All three of you OMGUS me and try to start casting suspicion on each other. Too late, guys. It's painful that we're still probably going to lose tonight when it's so obvious who the mafia are. Don't know why they need to. It's going to be 3-3 shortly. Unless they already know their NK failed but I don't know how that half of the game works. I'm going bowling. I'll be back around 10ish to find out if I wrecked our chances to win or not.
Eh, if we lose I'll take responsibility for not getting home on time yesterday to switch my vote to Nemesis. Regardless, the mods wouldn't keep the game running if we didn't have a chance to survive, so we must have a vet or doc. Keep your fingers crossed.
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damn Pandain you got lynched as Town? v_v
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United States22154 Posts
4 minutes or so, I'm just going to sit here hitting f5 until I discover weather we lived or died
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Day 3
Jackal58 the Townie is dead.
Barundar the Godfather is dead.
It is now day 3. Day ends on Thursday at 10 EST.
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United States22154 Posts
NOOOOOOOOOO! does that mean its gg? or is there something I'm missing?
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GG guys. Go get the bastards.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
##Vote Nemesis
Heh probable no lynch today with the possibility of a double medic save the next two nights? -_-
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Hi vigi here, I hit Barundar.
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Oh I get it, nice one incognito
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United States22154 Posts
##Vote Nemesis
well if we do have a medic he should get working on saving townies, also thats dosn't work if we have a medic and thats it then we can never win as mafia will always at least tie us, this means we have to have a vig lying around somewhere (at least thats the only solution that occurs to me)
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United States22154 Posts
oh, that makes much more sense
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On January 26 2011 12:13 GMarshal wrote:
##Vote Nemesis
well if we do have a medic he should get working on saving townies, also thats dosn't work if we have a medic and thats it then we can never win as mafia will always at least tie us, this means we have to have a vig lying around somewhere (at least thats the only solution that occurs to me)
I wonder why he hasn't shot yet! Hmmm
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United States22154 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 26 2011 12:11 GGQ wrote:
Hi vigi here, I hit Barundar.
High-Five ^_^
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United States22154 Posts
On January 26 2011 12:14 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:13 GMarshal wrote:
##Vote Nemesis
well if we do have a medic he should get working on saving townies, also thats dosn't work if we have a medic and thats it then we can never win as mafia will always at least tie us, this means we have to have a vig lying around somewhere (at least thats the only solution that occurs to me) I wonder why he hasn't shot yet! Hmmm
It wasn't originally in the day post, which is why I was confused.
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Well, GG lol. Isn't two vigi kinda imba? Town KP is 3 in one day...
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On January 26 2011 12:13 Barundar wrote:
##Vote GGQ
^.^
Yer dead. Shut up.
Voice from beyond.
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On January 26 2011 12:17 Jackal58 wrote:Yer dead. Shut up. Voice from beyond.
Look whos talking!
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On January 26 2011 12:16 chaoser wrote:
Well, GG lol. Isn't two vigi kinda imba? Town KP is 3 in one day...
I suspect that there are no other blue roles. Thanks for not roleblocking me
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Hahaha, so town setup was 2 vigi? Totally didn't expect that. Town wins it, obviously there's no way mafia can win anymore =P. GG. Went for the quick play and lost lol.
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We thought Gmarshal might have been medic and the setup was vigi/medic/vet or something like that. We thought you were blue but didn't know what lol.
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United States22154 Posts
well, we know who they are and they can't outvote us, so pretty much yeah
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What would have happened if we shot GGQ btw? It was between him and jackal.
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United States22154 Posts
I think his shot still goes off, but I'm not sure of what the ruling on that is
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Hes' leaving was real bad for us cause there was no way Kita was red lol. I decided to end it quick since people were starting to catch on to 2/3 of the three mafia.
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When'd you guys start thinking I was mafia? I think I played it pretty well, contributing as much as I did lol
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On January 26 2011 12:22 chaoser wrote:
What would have happened if we shot GGQ btw? It was between him and jackal.
You might have won. I was borderline scum with everybody but scum.
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On January 26 2011 12:19 chaoser wrote:
Hahaha, so town setup was 2 vigi? Totally didn't expect that. Town wins it, obviously there's no way mafia can win anymore =P. GG. Went for the quick play and lost lol.
Except my job wasn't so much to analyze as it was to policy shoot people. Really obvious mafia or really retarded townies were going to get shot. Had I not been modkilled I was going to going to coin flip shoot pandain/someone else. Both were town, but both were posting terribly day 1 lol.
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We didn't plan on going for this quick win - I personally got really pissed off with Hesmyrr leaving the scene asking to get modkilled. Kitaman replacing 30 min before final vote left us no time to plan ahead. Our original plan was to kill either Jackal or GGQ with the votes of the day or bus Nemesis to play for the long game, but what is the fun winning vs a modkilled town?
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Nah, I'm pretty sure with GGQ/GMarshal pulling me/Barundar/Nemesis we would have lsot. Kita ws going to follow them and you weren't going to vote yourself.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Just curious, did mafia intend to do the ninja vote swap to pandain regardless of my vote or were you guys waiting it see which way I went? I tried to put mine in at the last minute, but it was probably like 30 seconds too early.
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United States22154 Posts
@chaoser you played a pretty awesome mafia in my opinion, what gave you away was the fact that you never seemed sure about anything and always wanted more information (in my rather noobish opinion ofc) , there's also the fact that you defended nemesis when I was certain he was mafia.
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On January 26 2011 12:25 chaoser wrote:
When'd you guys start thinking I was mafia? I think I played it pretty well, contributing as much as I did lol
When Pandain flipped green.
I really should apologize to Pandain but dammit he put us into a lylo situation on day 2 and I really couldn't see anybody but red doing that.
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On January 26 2011 12:27 kitaman27 wrote:
Just curious, did mafia intend to do the ninja vote swap to pandain regardless of my vote or were you guys waiting it see which way I went? I tried to put mine in at the last minute, but it was probably like 30 seconds too early.
We didn't intend it at all, it was cause Hes switched out. At the point we were all like ughhhh, no way people going to think he's mafia. There's 4 hours left in the day, why would mafia leave? There's no reason to leave cause you can just leave it to the rest of your team and just vote.
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Barundar was the last mafia I picked up on. If he had bussed the other two, I would have had a harder time picking him out. Nemesis/chaoser I was pretty sure of pretty quickly.
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On January 26 2011 12:28 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:25 chaoser wrote:
When'd you guys start thinking I was mafia? I think I played it pretty well, contributing as much as I did lol When Pandain flipped green. I really should apologize to Pandain but dammit he put us into a lylo situation on day 2 and I really couldn't see anybody but red doing that.
It's not the first time it has happened to pandain... Try looking through the last 10 pages or so of the "Don't lose yo village". It's pandain as mafia arguing with glasse. This looked so similar
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On January 26 2011 12:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:19 chaoser wrote:
Hahaha, so town setup was 2 vigi? Totally didn't expect that. Town wins it, obviously there's no way mafia can win anymore =P. GG. Went for the quick play and lost lol. Except my job wasn't so much to analyze as it was to policy shoot people. Really obvious mafia or really retarded townies were going to get shot. Had I not been modkilled I was going to going to coin flip shoot pandain/someone else. Both were town, but both were posting terribly day 1 lol.
You scared me. I wasn't disappointed when you were mod killed. I really had no idea where you were playing from
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On January 26 2011 12:30 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:27 kitaman27 wrote:
Just curious, did mafia intend to do the ninja vote swap to pandain regardless of my vote or were you guys waiting it see which way I went? I tried to put mine in at the last minute, but it was probably like 30 seconds too early. We didn't intend it at all, it was cause Hes switched out. At the point we were all like ughhhh, no way people going to think he's mafia. There's 4 hours left in the day, why would mafia leave? There's no reason to leave cause you can just leave it to the rest of your team and just vote.
To be honest, I think we all had Hes as the most pro-town player in the game anyways... even if he stayed I wouldnt have thought he could be maf
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On January 26 2011 12:31 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 26 2011 12:19 chaoser wrote:
Hahaha, so town setup was 2 vigi? Totally didn't expect that. Town wins it, obviously there's no way mafia can win anymore =P. GG. Went for the quick play and lost lol. Except my job wasn't so much to analyze as it was to policy shoot people. Really obvious mafia or really retarded townies were going to get shot. Had I not been modkilled I was going to going to coin flip shoot pandain/someone else. Both were town, but both were posting terribly day 1 lol. You scared me. I wasn't disappointed when you were mod killed. I really had no idea where you were playing from
Just for the next little while assume if I'm in a game that I will sit back and step out if people are playing horrifically (which is what I was doing here). You guys were doing a couple of realllly big no no discussions during day 1.
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United States22154 Posts
BC what do you define as "realllly big no no discussions"?
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On January 26 2011 12:31 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:30 chaoser wrote:On January 26 2011 12:27 kitaman27 wrote:
Just curious, did mafia intend to do the ninja vote swap to pandain regardless of my vote or were you guys waiting it see which way I went? I tried to put mine in at the last minute, but it was probably like 30 seconds too early. We didn't intend it at all, it was cause Hes switched out. At the point we were all like ughhhh, no way people going to think he's mafia. There's 4 hours left in the day, why would mafia leave? There's no reason to leave cause you can just leave it to the rest of your team and just vote. To be honest, I think we all had Hes as the most pro-town player in the game anyways... even if he stayed I wouldnt have thought he could be maf
What gave me away =p Any improvements/advice? I want to know what BC thought of my play lol
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On January 26 2011 12:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:31 Jackal58 wrote:On January 26 2011 12:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 26 2011 12:19 chaoser wrote:
Hahaha, so town setup was 2 vigi? Totally didn't expect that. Town wins it, obviously there's no way mafia can win anymore =P. GG. Went for the quick play and lost lol. Except my job wasn't so much to analyze as it was to policy shoot people. Really obvious mafia or really retarded townies were going to get shot. Had I not been modkilled I was going to going to coin flip shoot pandain/someone else. Both were town, but both were posting terribly day 1 lol. You scared me. I wasn't disappointed when you were mod killed. I really had no idea where you were playing from Just for the next little while assume if I'm in a game that I will sit back and step out if people are playing horrifically (which is what I was doing here). You guys were doing a couple of realllly big no no discussions during day 1.
I did the same all through day 2. Pandain - No you. Me - No You. I'm guilty of tunneling on one event. I'm really hoping I do learn from every game I play.
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On January 26 2011 12:33 GMarshal wrote:
BC what do you define as "realllly big no no discussions"?
You guys made it really easy for me to just contribute with discussions that just had no purpose. "What's the difference btw lurker/inactive, how do we find them, what should blue do, lets lynch inactive".
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Hah BC's comments on forced discussion felt bullseye on my play in the start. Funny how Pandain and Gmarshal took offense, when it was exactly the trick I was pulling off.
Really wish you had stayed BC, think it's easier to fail as mafia if you feel you are outwitting the town.
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Oh wow 2 vigi setup, I totally didn't expect that :X
I was debating with them whether to roleblock ggq or gmarshal, but in the end we went with Gmarshal as barundar thought you were playing your normal game.
haha yeah we kind of went for the fast win after town decided to be inactive and some townies were (almost) modkilled as we got bored.
On January 26 2011 12:27 kitaman27 wrote:
Just curious, did mafia intend to do the ninja vote swap to pandain regardless of my vote or were you guys waiting it see which way I went? I tried to put mine in at the last minute, but it was probably like 30 seconds too early.
As I said with my pre-celebration, my timing was perfect, I left you with 10-15 sec to change your vote
Any feedback on what I could improve upon?
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I was debating with them whether to roleblock ggq or gmarshal, but in the end we went with Gmarshal as barundar thought you were playing your normal game.
Lies! We had both of them as blue, just too afraid to hit vet
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Yeah, i was banging on my keyboard "VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTEEEE!" and nemesis was like nah chill, my timer is perfect lolol
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Did I ever convince anybody that Pandain was red?
I really thought he was.
Just curious if my bull headed play worked.
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I claim responsibility for the Mafia loss
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Our original plan was to have chaoser push for jackal's lynch, barundar to bus me, and me to push for either ggq or pandain.
But we just got bored and tried to go for the easy win, but we didn't realize that there could be two vigis.
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Technically I did everything I could to help you this game.
I generated pointless day 1 discussion that helped barunder hide (I now figured out something else I want to talk about that isn't pointless)
And then I defended Nemesis day 1.
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On January 26 2011 12:43 LSB wrote:
I claim responsibility for the Mafia loss
I claim responsibility for your conception.
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United States22154 Posts
LSB if you hadn't gotten killed that night we might have hung you day 2, as I thought you were being pretty suspicious.
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How dare you being green when you talk about blues all the time GMarshal Completely threw me off.
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On January 26 2011 12:50 GMarshal wrote:
LSB if you hadn't gotten killed that night we might have hung you day 2, as I thought you were being pretty suspicious.
Pah, I'm (kingof) impossible to hang!
I probably would have bused Nemesis if I did survive. Half of the reason why I defended Nemesis was because I hoped that he was mafia, and by defending him I could survive another night.
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This is a game played by very paranoid peoples.
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United States22154 Posts
On January 26 2011 12:53 Barundar wrote:How dare you being green when you talk about blues all the time GMarshal Completely threw me off.
I was actually trying to bait a hit so that some of the better players would survive till late game, I'm glad I at least lured out a roleblock, part of it is the fact that I'm not really sure how to write a good analysis, so I figured I'd work better as a meatsheild.
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On January 26 2011 12:37 Barundar wrote:
Hah BC's comments on forced discussion felt bullseye on my play in the start. Funny how Pandain and Gmarshal took offense, when it was exactly the trick I was pulling off.
Really wish you had stayed BC, think it's easier to fail as mafia if you feel you are outwitting the town.
Just go read some games the mafia destroyed town in (in terms of equal level of play) and just emulate that if you can. It will destroy bad towns while making yourself feel good.
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On January 26 2011 12:33 GMarshal wrote:
BC what do you define as "realllly big no no discussions"?
talking about blues but not specifying medic lists/dt/vig lists, etc... If you talk generalities anyone can weigh in and appear active without contributing productively.
For instance saying "dts should check scummy players" vs "dts should check bc, ver and incog"
One prompts people to discuss why those players are being checked, the other lets people go "yeah, check scummy people."
its the difference between specifics and semantics.
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On January 26 2011 12:34 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:31 GGQ wrote:On January 26 2011 12:30 chaoser wrote:On January 26 2011 12:27 kitaman27 wrote:
Just curious, did mafia intend to do the ninja vote swap to pandain regardless of my vote or were you guys waiting it see which way I went? I tried to put mine in at the last minute, but it was probably like 30 seconds too early. We didn't intend it at all, it was cause Hes switched out. At the point we were all like ughhhh, no way people going to think he's mafia. There's 4 hours left in the day, why would mafia leave? There's no reason to leave cause you can just leave it to the rest of your team and just vote. To be honest, I think we all had Hes as the most pro-town player in the game anyways... even if he stayed I wouldnt have thought he could be maf What gave me away =p Any improvements/advice? I want to know what BC thought of my play lol
When you first soft defended Nemesis against Pandain when I suspected Nemesis for the same reasons as Pandain, you got on my radar. When you made that big post later on and said you were uncertain and asked what I thought about stuff, I thought you seemed way to uncertain. Then I read back over your posts and noticed that the uncertainty permeated many posts, and all your other posts were either repeating things others had said or just null-tell information.
Barundar was lurking but I had a soft-townie read on him for no reason up until he switched the vote to hammer Pandain. If I had gotten home on time before that lynch I would have posted my analysis of you two and finished the lynch on Nemesis. If Barundar had worked with town, he might have won later. But that's not what happened!
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LSB You're a faggot always trying to get me lynched first in every game ._.
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Any improvements I can make with my scum game as I seemed to be in a lot of people's radar the whole time?
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On January 26 2011 14:04 Nemesis wrote:
Any improvements I can make with my scum game as I seemed to be in a lot of people's radar the whole time?
Your first post was worded strangely and made it seem like you were contradicting yourself. That's why you got picked out right away, but if you responded well to that, I would have passed over you. The problem was that you made a quick vote on ShocKeyy. Shockeyy had already been discussed and you didn't bring anything new to the discussion. Plus it was still an inactive lynch. I guess I'd suggest either not voting for anyone, just explain your post and allow the conversation to move on (the weaker option), or make an analysis on a player with new information or insight that no one else had brought up. Either of those would have been more pro-town. After that, you were in trouble and I don't know what you should have done.
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On January 26 2011 08:59 Ace wrote:
damn Pandain you got lynched as Town? v_v
by 3 mafia and jackal :p
On January 26 2011 12:28 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:25 chaoser wrote:
When'd you guys start thinking I was mafia? I think I played it pretty well, contributing as much as I did lol When Pandain flipped green. I really should apologize to Pandain but dammit he put us into a lylo situation on day 2 and I really couldn't see anybody but red doing that.
Honestly if you expect someone to always remember the lylo count, that's pretty silly. Plus the fact everyone then was like "WE CAN'T HAVE TIE"(not just me).
I actually felt I did pretty well, although aparently not. I nailed nemesis, suspected Barundar, and the only one I didn't suspect was Chaoser. Was there anything that gave him away in particular?
Anyway, since Incognito hasn't responded yet, I'd like to ask if anyone(paritcularly veterans) have anything to say in my pm to him?
This game has been pretty interesting. Even though its only been two days, I still feel like I would have enough information to get this lynch right. However, I am clueless. I was wondering, if, after this game ends, you could shed your light on a number of things:
A)What I should've been thinking
B)Role of "Metagame" in Mafia-As in, would mafia stick their necks out? Is that wifomish? To what extent should I use that? Furthormore, how other people have played in previous games, to what extent should that be used in analyzing them.
C) Role of "Dumb" townies. How should I do this? Do mafia usually stick their neck out? And can I even analyze based on what "mafia usually do", since they would change that anyway?
For example I would think Jackal is mafia based on how much he's accusing me. But just because he's SO rash, and actually pretty active makes me think he's town.
D)Generating information? Did I derail the thread or help? I thought I was generating information, but apparently I didn't.
Anyway, if you would so kindly shed light on these issues, I'd be forever grateful. If you don't, its koo.
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On January 27 2011 01:48 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 08:59 Ace wrote:
damn Pandain you got lynched as Town? v_v by 3 mafia and jackal :p Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:28 Jackal58 wrote:On January 26 2011 12:25 chaoser wrote:
When'd you guys start thinking I was mafia? I think I played it pretty well, contributing as much as I did lol When Pandain flipped green. I really should apologize to Pandain but dammit he put us into a lylo situation on day 2 and I really couldn't see anybody but red doing that. Honestly if you expect someone to always remember the lylo count, that's pretty silly. Plus the fact everyone then was like "WE CAN'T HAVE TIE"(not just me). I actually felt I did pretty well, although aparently not. I nailed nemesis, suspected Barundar, and the only one I didn't suspect was Chaoser. Was there anything that gave him away in particular? Anyway, since Incognito hasn't responded yet, I'd like to ask if anyone(paritcularly veterans) have anything to say in my pm to him? Show nested quote +This game has been pretty interesting. Even though its only been two days, I still feel like I would have enough information to get this lynch right. However, I am clueless. I was wondering, if, after this game ends, you could shed your light on a number of things:
A)What I should've been thinking
B)Role of "Metagame" in Mafia-As in, would mafia stick their necks out? Is that wifomish? To what extent should I use that? Furthormore, how other people have played in previous games, to what extent should that be used in analyzing them.
C) Role of "Dumb" townies. How should I do this? Do mafia usually stick their neck out? And can I even analyze based on what "mafia usually do", since they would change that anyway?
For example I would think Jackal is mafia based on how much he's accusing me. But just because he's SO rash, and actually pretty active makes me think he's town.
D)Generating information? Did I derail the thread or help? I thought I was generating information, but apparently I didn't.
Anyway, if you would so kindly shed light on these issues, I'd be forever grateful. If you don't, its koo.
I will respond...later today. Just busy atm
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That was surprising. So chaoser/Nemesis/Barunder was scum team? Not proud of my performance in this game =/ (one way or another). Probably will refrain from signing for another game for awhile, and well played everyone!
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Lol, I knew Barunder was scum, check out my earlier post in the games.
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