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Thanks to Kavdragon for the banner
Annul will be helping me co host this game, questions can be directed towards either of us and night actions should be sent into both of us.
Team Melee Mini Mafia III Boot Camp Edition *All questions are to be directed toward me or Annul. Night 2
+ Show Spoiler [Important Posts] + Intro: Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking.
This mafia game works slightly different than the normal one (read: Mafia), so I'll explain it a bit more. During the night mafia will collectively decide on and send in their hits to me, who they want dead (it's a good idea to discuss them during day so you know ahead of time). Any player with a special role that can act during the night must PM me their actions each and every night.
If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win the game. The goal for the townspeople is to lynch all the members of the mafia by whatever analysis, teamwork, or guile they have. The goal of the mafia, of course, is to kill the townspeople with murderous precision.
The game is typically very active and there are usually numerous walls of text to wade through. If you are not a person who likes reading then I highly suggest you don't play the game because it is essential to being informed within the game. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules: (subject to change)
Posting Etiquette: In the past, many players have complained or quit because of the excessive badmouthing and pointless flaming. If you are posting aggressively and know you couldn't get away with it anywhere else on this site, it probably definitely isn't okay here. Besides, contrary to what you may think, yelling at someone is a great way to convince people to disagree with your arguments. Please do not post inappropriately, or it will earn you a warning based on mod discretion. If you choose to ignore the warning, you will be modkilled and banned from future games. Examples of inappropriate posts include excessive cursing and vulgarity, among other things. I have the final say on whether or not a post is inappropriate or not. Be warned, I will be extremely intolerant of flaming this game. You get one warning to cool down, and if it continues actions will be taken. This is supposed to be an objective game, folks. Let's keep it that way.
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to) the following and will get you banned from future games: 1. Posting after death. One polite goodbye post is acceptable but please do not post anything which could POSSIBLY affect the game. 2. Betraying your role and ruining the game for everyone by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account / checking their PMs / looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. This is not a photoshop competition. 6. Posting any PM you receive from a host. 7. Editing posts. Editing posts is not allowed for any reason. The mods can see your edits, and if you are caught, you will look suspicious. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be owned. 8. There are to be NO private messages this game for most roles. Roles that may PM will be told to them. 9. Private messaging, including IMs / IRC, is allowed between team members, and between Mafia.
Voting rules: 1. Voting is to be done in this thread. 2. Please vote in the following format, to make it easier for everyone to read: ##Vote: Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update votes whenever I get the chance. 3. You cannot autochange your vote to the losing or winning bandwagon. 4. You may not vote for yourself, anyone dead, or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first is lynched over the other person. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups: You can sign up either in pairs or individually. This game will be starting December 21st.
If you sign up as a pair, both of you need to sign up and acknowledge your partner in the thread by posting: Sign up [Your Name] and [Partner Name]
If you sign up individually, you will be placed into a team. Players after 18 will be put into an already existing team of two.
I don't mind you playing other games at the same time. It's not my fault if you're not active though. Preference will be given to players who are not in other games.
Clues: There are no clues.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a strict 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not around at the deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. The time deadline is 8PM EST
Credits: Most of this post was shamelessly stolen from Korrynne! Thanks <3
Relevant to this game: 1. You may PM your teammates, mafia can all PM each other. 2. Each team is given a role 3. Only the votes from the Juniors of the team count, if there is more than one junior each vote is worth .5. 4. Each team has one night action (Mafia only has 1KP, and Medics/Detectives only have 1 protect/check per night) 5. Only team members that do not vote and post will be modkilled. If that happens, you lose a fraction of your voting power permanently. All night powers remain the same. 6. Only members who have not posted and voted will be sent to the ban list. Roles are revealed only upon the death of all members of a team.
What makes this game different? In this game what I am aiming to do is get 9 "senior" players to sign up and 9 "junior" players. The goal is so you can reflect ideas off each other and have someone to talk and hopefully learn how to play the game a little better. I thought this would be a great way to help players improve since I found the best way to improve for myself was having other players to talk to and learn from. That is why I am referring to this game as a boot camp because the goal is to allow players to learn from more experienced people. There most likely will not be any post game analysis since the goal is to learn as you are playing not learn when the game is finished.
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Team List:
Senior Team 1. LSB 2. Ace 3. Chezinu 4. chaoser 5. Bloody_C0bbler 6. flamewheel 7. Incognito 8. Foolishness 9.KingJames01
Junior Team 1. GMarshal 2. aidnai 3. Beneather 4. Meapak_Ziphh 5. deconduo 6. Nemesis 7. Kavdragon 8. orgolove 9. Subversion 10. TheMango
Teams 1. LSB/Kavdragon - Killed Night 1 2. TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness 3. Beneather/Bloody_C0bbler - Lynched Day 1 4. Deconduo/Chezinu 5. Meapak_Ziphh/Ace 6. KingJames01/Aidnai 7. Incognito/Subversion 8. Chaoser/Nemesis 9. Flamewheel/Orgolove - Lynched Day 2
Set Up: 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 5 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Town 2 Mafia Goon, 1 Medic, 6 Town. 2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town.
Role Descriptions:
Townie You are a townie and have the power to vote on daily lynches!
Medic You may protect one person a night from mafias KP during the night phase. You may NOT self protect.
Detective You may investigate one person per night and have their role returned with the day post.
Mafia Goon You may vote during the day, and send in a hit at night.
Mafia Roleblocker Each night you may send in a hit and roleblock one target. A role blocked target is informed that they were role blocked whether they are green or blue. You may role block the same person on consecutive nights.
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I'll be on a newbies team
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Oh wait, DoctorH is playing this game. I don't know... this would be the first time I'm playing a normal game with DoctorH
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my understanding is that I would be acting like a coach and not as a real player
is that correct? whatever newbie i get paired with is just getting help from me, I wouldn't actually be playing in the game.
If I do have to play/vote then I'm /out
and that's what you think LSB
hehehehe
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Put which half you are applying as, Veteran or Newb. The doctor wants to be a noobie?
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i would be applying as veteran obv
so my role would be to direct the newer player and give him advice right? do I have to participate directly?
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On December 10 2010 11:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote: my understanding is that I would be acting like a coach and not as a real player
is that correct? whatever newbie i get paired with is just getting help from me, I wouldn't actually be playing in the game.
If I do have to play/vote then I'm /out
and that's what you think LSB
hehehehe Each 2 players function as a team. You can read a previous TMM if you want to see how it works. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142614 Each person on a team gets 1 vote each
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yeah, sorry I misread your post the first time its why I was confused ^^
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I consider myself a noob, but I'll sign up as Vet
/in Vet
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ok then /out
with the BR game upcoming and harry potter mafia i just dont have time
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I thought this game wasn't going to start for a while. When do you plan on starting it?
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kj go on skype or mirc so we can talk about the br test game plz
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game is not starting for around 2 weeks. December 21st is the start date i have set now.
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Dec. 21 is too close to xmas. I definitely won't be able to play this one, even though it looks super fun =/
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I'm thinking that if Communist mafia starts soon and gets done before this one starts I will participate. I'll keep you posted.
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Why can't people play around Xmas? I assumed most people would be done with school and free. Would after christmas be better?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On December 10 2010 12:27 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Why can't people play around Xmas? I assumed most people would be done with school and free. Would after christmas be better? I think it's more that there will be a few key days where people will be mia in general. I can definitely vouch that there would be a day or two where I'd just be unable to check the thread at all, due to visiting family and friends. But yes, perhaps waiting until a day or two after christmas would be better. However you might run into the same problem with "eh, sorry can't play going to be too busy around New Year's". =/
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United States22154 Posts
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I propose that for this game players and any analyzers try to establish a good learning environment. Let's attempt to replace the terms "noob/vet" with the less polarizing "junior/senior".
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It wasn't meant in a condescending way it was more joking. But I'd replace the terms. I don't really care. I will also change the start time for after Christmas. December 27th sound good? New years is usually a one day event so it shouldn't matter too much, or am I wrong on what most people do lol? My family stays home for Christmas and I made the dumb assumption that most people do that >.<
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I didn't mean it as a criticism towards you RoL! I think it's more that if we use the language we tend to think that way too. "Noobs" could be intimidated by the "vets" when in fact we're all still learning.
While reading over the posts, I've been seeing "vets" use the term "newbie" or "noobs" and newcomers using "noob". In a positive teaching environment, such as this one, everybody has something that they can work on. Hence my proposition to switch to more constructive terms.
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changed terms and pushing start date back TBD, but I am aiming for early January.
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nigga how many games u even play in? I will look over your play and make a discretionary call if you want but day 1 medic claiming to random peoples =/= good play!
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Time to revive interest in this?
/in n00b
don't worry KJ I don't feel intimidated by some terms.
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=) I'm not worried.
I'm just establishing my 'meta'... j/k! Or am I? =)
No, I want everyone to feel welcome, hehe.
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alright taking registrations again. Probably starting between Jan 3rd and the 7th.
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I want to be on a sane person's team.
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so chezzy in as noob? I always considered you a pretty decent player even when you posted like you had 9 different brown personalities.
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^^ One hand washes the other...
+ Show Spoiler +it's a great metaphor I just heard on some TV show
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/in as noob
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what? I'm on the junior team?
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On December 22 2010 07:52 Chezinu wrote: what? I'm on the junior team? isn't that what you asked for?
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On December 22 2010 09:59 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:isn't that what you asked for? I asked to be on a sane person's team. Are you saying that people become more sane the more experienced they are? So, it isn't the other way around..
PS:+ Show Spoiler +I'm causing a big commotion to bump your thread,
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You said earlier that we can request partners or sign up in teams, right? =)
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/in as noob
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/in as a noob/junior whatever :D
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On December 22 2010 14:12 kingjames01 wrote: You said earlier that we can request partners or sign up in teams, right? =) yes sir! Does that mean your in KJ?
also updated.
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On December 22 2010 15:55 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2010 14:12 kingjames01 wrote: You said earlier that we can request partners or sign up in teams, right? =) yes sir! Does that mean your in KJ? also updated.
I'll be back in time to join this. Which team would you assign me to? =)
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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/in [Kavdragon] and [LSB]
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/in [LSB] and [Kavdragon]
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I just looked at the setup and saw this:
1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Town What would be the point of a roleblocker if there are no blues?
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On December 23 2010 06:35 Nemesis wrote:I just looked at the setup and saw this: What would be the point of a roleblocker if there are no blues? Since the setup is randomized, the mafia shouldn't know the amount of roles either. Without the roleblocker in this instance, there would only be one setup with a roleblocker. Therefore the presence of a roleblocker would alert the mafia of the presence of a DT and Medic.
By having a roleblocker, mafia can't tell these two setups apart
1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 5 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Town
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On December 23 2010 04:23 LSB wrote: /in [LSB] and [Kavdragon]
Stacked team right here.
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Incognito, you should join to even it out! and flamewheel, early January.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
/in, want to be a team with a vet.
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still time to join?
/in if yes, i should go with the noobs tho :D
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Only accepting Senior's and back ups now.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
flamewheel and Incognito are in as coaches. Please note that we won't play but we will offer advice to the players we are paired with.
Incognito I signed you up you can't unsign now mwahahaha.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On December 23 2010 11:49 flamewheel wrote: flamewheel and Incognito are in as coaches. Please note that we won't play but we will offer advice to the players we are paired with.
Incognito I signed you up you can't unsign now mwahahaha. Wait, is this supposed to be what actually happens or are we supposed to be playing?
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Original Message From RebirthOfLeGenD: ah fine coaching is allowed. you don't have to be an active player. Both of you should come on TL TS right now into the mafia channel. PW is brown.
----------------------------------------- Original Message From flamewheel: I'd coach, but I wouldn't really want to play, given the obsessive nature of personas like Incognito and myself. In a 'team game' though it should come out to be the same thing. I can get Incognito to join if we are just permitted to coach. Neither of us want to partake in the "hardcore" though too much at the moment... ----------------------------------------- Original Message From RebirthOfLeGenD: Its a small game, I don't see the issue. Post both So does that mean you are in? Incognito can't play it right?
----------------------------------------- Original Message From flamewheel: Haha was just discussing this with Incognito. If this game's going up early January, is it appropriate to put in XXXV before it or do I wait? ----------------------------------------- Original Message From RebirthOfLeGenD: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=175638
Hey I was wondering if you were able to play in this game as a Veteran? I'd appreciate it <3
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you guys can do whatever you want. I won't be enforcing modkills for the senior/veteran players. You can be active or be advisory. At the individuals discretion.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Okay yeah, I'd like to take up that role as well. I don't mind posting here and there, but I won't do anything major; I'll leave that for my teammate!
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
edit: nm
can't play in both pyp and the bootcamp at the same time. So I'll still //in.
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I didn't see a rule in PYP that you can't play multiple games. Plus I don't think most hosts generally count the mini games as double gaming.
Still need one more vet and a few back up players.
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advisor BC will be epic bc. or completely inactive bc? ONLY TIME WILL DECIDE MUAHAHAHA
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Wait wait wait what!?!?!?!
Signing me up for a game behind my back are we?
...fine...who could possibly want to be on my team anyway...
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On December 23 2010 14:42 Incognito wrote: Wait wait wait what!?!?!?!
Signing me up for a game behind my back are we?
...fine...who could possibly want to be on my team anyway...
the bc incog team! or the flamewheel incog team!
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On December 23 2010 14:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 14:42 Incognito wrote: Wait wait wait what!?!?!?!
Signing me up for a game behind my back are we?
...fine...who could possibly want to be on my team anyway... the bc incog team! or the flamewheel incog team!
Thanks for the support, but do I really want to be on a team with a person who killed me in a game where I should've been medic protted? Or a game with someone who signed me up behind my back?
In all seriousness, are players choosing who they're partnering with or is host going to random it?
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
It appears some have already chosen.
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I'll join in as a Senior player if there is still need for one more. If not, then I'll just sit out and watch. =)
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Ace doesn't seem too interested, KJ is in <3.
I will sign people up with preferences and then balance the remainder based on skill imo. The roles however will be RNG.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Just don't give me Mafia lolol
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im going to sit out of this game
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alright fools, if you have any preferences for a teammate post in thread, or I will put teams together.
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Aidnai - Coagulation! Then we can lynch them both day one.
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^^Hahaha. I'm coming inside for your daily beating now, see you soon <3
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hehe, brotherly love. =) <3
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Does anyone want to be my partner?
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Thanks Ace! Coagulation is switched out with Ace due to his ban interfering with the start of this game which is scheduled to begin January 3rd
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United States1966 Posts
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United States1966 Posts
oh, it's full
time to check on the junior team post history and see if I can temp ban someone
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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lol mango you can be like manifesto and ban kavdragon and aidnai for double accounting even though it is two different people!
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On December 30 2010 00:31 LSB wrote: 3 Person Team? You know....This could help with any conversations that might arise between Aidnai and I. No idea what he might think, but I wouldn't mind.
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I'm willing to be on a three person team with Aidnai and Kavdragon
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uh... i'd rather not be on your team tough guy. Don't you think it'd be more fun to analyse each other than analyse with each other?
edit for clarity (and because it feels naughty in a mafia forum): tough guy = kavdragon
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w/e Mango can be in. Three person team it will be!
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err, the brothers don't have to be team mates though. I will probably shove mango with one of the lower post people who might go inactive and put them with senior/vet.
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When is this getting underway?
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Can I modkill my teammate if he goes inactive?
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Can I modkill my teammate if he doesn't post 5 times an hour?
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January 3rd is start date. I'd be willing to start sooner if everyone is alright with it. I don't like the idea of 2 days of inactivity over new years and leading up to that. I figure January 3rd gives everyone enough time to be normalized. Like in the current mafia game I can't tell if a lot of people are busy or lurking.
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Just so everyone is aware. Pick team mates now and post in the thread, tomorrow night at 10PM I will set up teams according to what I feel is balanced from the seniors/juniors. The game will start January 3rd in 2 days 10PM EST the latest.
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I updated the team list, I suggest everyone getting contact information now. I have 1 team of 3 players. The way this will work is each team is assigned 6 voting power. Teams of 2 get 3 VP each, and teams of 3 get 2 VP each.
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Ahem. Can I give all my votes to my partner? I think this might work better if only junior players votes counted. Otherwise it makes it tempting to follow the vets which won't help anyone.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I'll third that idea. I still plan on posting in the thread like I'm playing, but I'll leave the hard job to my teammates =P
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IDEA INITIATEd. Only junior's votes count. I will weigh them all accordingly.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Meaning... The two juniors in the 3 person group will be worth half a point each?
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I have a fealing that BC isn't going to be doing anything this game...
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Time to yawnrape my way through this game and lolroll over all the Scum. Wake me up when you guys wanna catch some Scum.
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Day 1 People fear heights, the dark, creepy crawlies and the icky human fluids.
But our biggest fear is not something that we can see… our biggest fear is something that hits everyone. It causes cities to shut themselves off, societies to fall, and gods to be forsaken.
It is the pathogen
Condemned by international treaties, banned by national laws, and forsaken by ethicists the bioagent is a weapon that should be left forgotten.
But… a new player has entered the field.
As federal agents RebirthOfLeGenD and Korynne investigated a report of a meth lab. They stumbled on something far worse.
I… I… Did not see what happened. I know of what happened afterwards.
Bill Murray the Mafia Bioweapon engineer was found dead, two bullets in his head.
These bullets were traced to RebirthOfLeGenD the federal investigator’s sidearm. However, it took us a while to identify his remains.
A horrible disease had ravaged Korynne and RebirthOfLeGenD They were only recognizable from DNA samples taken from the pool of gore found in the basement.
We followed up on our only leads. Bill Murray’s only known associate Ver was brought in for questioning.
During interrogation, Ver cut open his plastic handcuffs with a hidden blade and jammed the room shut by breaking the door handle. He then turned the blade on Qatol.
In mad dash to save Qatol, bullets were fired and Ver was shot. Qatol later died of his injuries at Insania General Hospital.
We do not know what happened. But we do know that if we do not stop it, we are doomed.
Bill Murrary the Mafia Bioweapon Engineer is dead RebirthOfLeGenD the Federal Investigator is dead Korynne the Narcotics Liaison is dead Ver the Mafia Smuggler is dead Qatol the Police Chief is dead
__________________________
Day 1 begins here, voting will be done in thread with the normal ## bolded votes. Thanks to LSB for the prewritten day post.
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Yess!! I stole a day post!!
All right, to start discussion.
Will Teh Cobbler actually play this game? Failing to find a mafia day 1, how about lynching inactives?
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What makes you think we won't find Scum on Day 1?
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On January 03 2011 15:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: ravaged Korynne
the images man
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Thats a reoccuring theme.
Wait! RoL! Change korr role to be a nurse!
On January 03 2011 15:20 Ace wrote: What makes you think we won't find Scum on Day 1? And since when have we actually lynched an inactive day 1?
Its an ice breaker. Like, dude the day post was awesome!
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Oh and I am shortening the first day by 3 hours. It will end in 44 hours from now on Tuesday at 10PM EST.
You know whats funny is I didn't even read the day post and who I subbed what in. Didn't even realize korynne got ravaged!
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What huh? I got ravaged? D:
*goes back into hiding*
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On October 11 2010 14:15 Korynne wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 13:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote: In a nearby cafe Korynne was enjoying a late coffee. She had just got off a very long shift at the Alfred Hitchcock Memorial Hospital and needed the energy just to make the drive home. There was only one other person in the cafe and she couldn't help but get a weird feeling from him. As she left the cafe and got into her car she could sense he was following her. She drove for a long distance and when she stopped in her driveway she could swear she heard a noise in the backseat. She looked behind her and saw nothing. Her mind was playing tricks on her.
She turned her head back to find something much worse. The man from the cafe was sitting in the passenger seat of her car and had a gun pressed to her temple. The gunshot was silenced, her body wouldn't be found until the morning.
Oh I see how it is, I'm the only female and I'm a nurse. Also I'm offended that I was not sexually assaulted before my death.
i mean you got your wish yes yes?
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No comment. =X It's not rape if I enjoy it. D:
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that must be some crazy canadian jurisprudence :O
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lol, poor Korynne
He used to be so innocent
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United States1966 Posts
Checking in, I might be away until tomorrow sometime, will be checking via phone and will be in touch with my team
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checking in, happy new year all, getting in contact with my junior =]
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On January 03 2011 19:21 Subversion wrote: lol, poor Korynne
He used to be so innocent
That's a she, and no I was never innocent.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Lynch Incognito.
Enough said.
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Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games.
A few things to talk about:
- Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives: A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive.
Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives.
We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive.
Plan Firstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM
Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas.
Generic Blue Activity plan One plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions.
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Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all.
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Good point about that. If everyone is pretty active I don't think its going to be a problem.
But even if we are in setup #2, the plan still can accomplish it's goal. The big point of the plan is its there to try to encourage activity. It's to try to change play so that people, and the mafia, will become more active.
Just the threat of DTs checking lurkers should be enough for the mafia to start posting a bit. And just the threat of medics protecting active people should be enough for the mafia to try to either A) get protected. Or B) not hit actives.
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On January 04 2011 00:59 LSB wrote: Good point about that. If everyone is pretty active I don't think its going to be a problem.
But even if we are in setup #2, the plan still can accomplish it's goal. The big point of the plan is its there to try to encourage activity. It's to try to change play so that people, and the mafia, will become more active.
Just the threat of DTs checking lurkers should be enough for the mafia to start posting a bit. And just the threat of medics protecting active people should be enough for the mafia to try to either A) get protected. Or B) not hit actives.
The mafia have an advantage in that they can eliminate 2 of the setups as possibilities as well. That kind of sucks a bit too.
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On January 04 2011 01:04 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 00:59 LSB wrote: Good point about that. If everyone is pretty active I don't think its going to be a problem.
But even if we are in setup #2, the plan still can accomplish it's goal. The big point of the plan is its there to try to encourage activity. It's to try to change play so that people, and the mafia, will become more active.
Just the threat of DTs checking lurkers should be enough for the mafia to start posting a bit. And just the threat of medics protecting active people should be enough for the mafia to try to either A) get protected. Or B) not hit actives. The mafia have an advantage in that they can eliminate 2 of the setups as possibilities as well. That kind of sucks a bit too.
Agreed, but that's always the case with mafia, right? They will will have the information advantage right from the start.
glhf all. Go town.
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Happy New Year everyone checking in. I have a problem I haven't gotten a response from my partner Bloody C0bbler yet.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
From TL Mafia XXXV:
On December 27 2010 11:11 LSB wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I wanted to wait for the day post before posting this but w/e All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Framer Issue: Framers are much better put to use framing the important townies. So any attempt by the mafia for framing the inactives would be a waste.
From this game:
On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Copy paste ftw?
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On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. Since there is NO PM'S in this game apart from your team mate, your circle is pretty much limited to those who share your role.
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On January 04 2011 05:24 Foolishness wrote:From TL Mafia XXXV: Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:11 LSB wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I wanted to wait for the day post before posting this but w/e All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Framer Issue: Framers are much better put to use framing the important townies. So any attempt by the mafia for framing the inactives would be a waste. From this game: Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Copy paste ftw? I actually copied it straight from Pokemafia, but no one noticed :D!
Still its suppose to start discussion. Which isn't happening. What do you think?
I think if nothing happens day one, lynching inactives isn't a bad idea.
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Here we go again!
Since I didn't get it and Kav explained it to me, I'll assume someone else could benefit from an explanation as well: The colors on the banner are supposed to represent teams.
Decon: I think it'd be silly to have a roleblocker and no roles to block, no? Setup 2 is the least likely imo. However, town circle is still out (no pm's).
A few rules to clear up: Are we expected to stop communicating with our senior/junior partner if they are modkilled? Do we vote to lynch teams, or individuals?
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EBWOP
A few rules to clear up: Are we expected to stop communicating with our senior/junior partner if they are modkilled? Do we vote to lynch teams, or individuals?
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Hypothetically every single setup has an equal chance of occurring. Unless the host meddled in the selection.
But either way, we shouldn't count on a role being there.
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On January 04 2011 06:36 aidnai wrote: EBWOP
A few rules to clear up: Are we expected to stop communicating with our senior/junior partner if they are modkilled? Do we vote to lynch teams, or individuals?
This game will have no modkills, I have decided it is pointless because both juniors and seniors are useless without the other. If you are inactive then its your loss on a learning experience and I will ban you from future boot camps. By joining this game and going inactive you steel someone elses opportunity to learn which is a dick move.
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and you vote to lynch teams. If at the end of the day team X has the most votes, all members of team X are lynched.
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On January 04 2011 06:22 aidnai wrote: Here we go again!
Since I didn't get it and Kav explained it to me, I'll assume someone else could benefit from an explanation as well: The colors on the banner are supposed to represent teams.
Decon: I think it'd be silly to have a roleblocker and no roles to block, no? Setup 2 is the least likely imo. However, town circle is still out (no pm's).
A few rules to clear up: Are we expected to stop communicating with our senior/junior partner if they are modkilled? Do we vote to lynch teams, or individuals?
I'm assuming its randomly rolled, so each setup is just as likely. The idea with a roleblocker and no roles to block is just to give mafia information about which setup it is.
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Well, I guess i'm not gonna wait around for my buddy to show up before I post anything.
@Deconduo: ok, if any setup is equally likely, than I agree we should "assume" setup 2 -- no blues. It's never good to rely on blues too much anyway.
LSB, I'm pretty sick of the day 1 let's lynch inactives campaign...but with almost no activity so far, we might have to. Maybe everyone is trying to coordinate with their partner before diving in head first? I know Kav and I have had internet availability issues at home as well, I might be stuck posting from work only for a bit
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On January 04 2011 09:34 aidnai wrote:Well, I guess i'm not gonna wait around for my buddy to show up before I post anything. LSB, I'm pretty sick of the day 1 let's lynch inactives campaign...but with almost no activity so far, we might have to. Maybe everyone is trying to coordinate with their partner before diving in head first? I know Kav and I have had internet availability issues at home as well, I might be stuck posting from work only for a bit
First: Yes. Please people: Don't wait for your team mate to begin posting. You'll waste valuable time. So far we've had activity from 4 of 9 juniors. Not good.
Second: The game is about analyzing posts. Day one there is nothing to analyze, and so we have to put something out there to discuss. Since we must come to a decision as to who we lynch by the end of the day, the topic of lynching inactives fits quite nicely. It also serves the purpose of pressuring people to post. If you have something better to discuss, let's hear it.
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Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans.
On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles.
On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on.
As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity.
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On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote: Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on.
As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. I wouldn't say that encouraging activity is isn't that important. It's crucial. Right now the mafia would love if we all just kept silent and tried not do do anything. Lets start making this real. Drastic inactivity calls for drastic measures
Well Team 3 and Team 9 Haven't posted yet. And I've been poking at BC all the time. So I guess lets start off by pressuring them until they speak
##Vote Team 3: Beneather/Bloody_C0bbler + Show Spoiler [LSB Awesome PBPA] +Nothing to analyze really
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LSB I did post but since you didn't see it. I was saying that I couldn't get a hold of Bloody_C0bbler. Is this a problem for the whole game or just for me?
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Oh good point you did post
##Unvote ##Vote Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove
No idea about BC, don't expect too much activity from him. Feel free to discuss plans and activity though.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
He hasn't been on recently. I think he mentioned something a while ago about an airport.
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Well, what do you think we should do day 1 as town?
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On January 04 2011 12:24 LSB wrote: Oh good point you did post
##Unvote ##Vote Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove
No idea about BC, don't expect too much activity from him. Feel free to discuss plans and activity though. Only your junior has voting power
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On January 04 2011 12:34 flamewheel wrote: He hasn't been on recently. I think he mentioned something a while ago about an airport.
You've posted only one post at the very beginning of the game calling for the lynch of incog. A good townie (like a senior) would know that discussion is good and start talking You responded to LSB's vote within 10 min. If you are following so closely, why aren't you posting?
You covered for yourself earlier by saying that you didn't want to be very active, choosing to give advice to your team mate earlier. Games with any sort of negotiation between players are often won before they start, based on how people set themselves up before the game starts. Maybe you really are just not that interested in playing, but I'd hate to underestimate a player's ability to play the game.
##Vote Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On January 04 2011 13:00 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 12:34 flamewheel wrote: He hasn't been on recently. I think he mentioned something a while ago about an airport. You've posted only one post at the very beginning of the game calling for the lynch of incog. A good townie (like a senior) would know that discussion is good and start talking You responded to LSB's vote within 10 min. If you are following so closely, why aren't you posting? You covered for yourself earlier by saying that you didn't want to be very active, choosing to give advice to your team mate earlier. Games with any sort of negotiation between players are often won before they start, based on how people set themselves up before the game starts. Maybe you really are just not that interested in playing, but I'd hate to underestimate a player's ability to play the game. ##Vote Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove I'm honestly not playing, if that wasn't made blatantly obvious enough. I'm here to assist my junior, and we've already established that. If he doesn't post, not really much I can do about that.
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On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity.
i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected?
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
I apologize for being busy.
So we're having a day 1 lynch without any starting information huh. An open setup with unknown roleblockers gives a disadvantage to the town, but as the saying goes, "a challenge means god's afraid of your progress"
All right, lets see. ...
Looking at the past two pages, there's nothing to analyze. There's only been two votes, and the only discussion has been whether to lynch inactives.
no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage.
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on.
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United States22154 Posts
Well, I find this lack of information to be rather annoying, with nothing to go on, and having to vote, perhaps lynching an inactive is the only choice (lynching the most active person certainly dosn't seem like the best idea ), basically unless more information crops up I think we have to lynch an inactive.
What are we going to do if everyone posts though?
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On January 05 2011 01:12 GMarshal wrote:Well, I find this lack of information to be rather annoying, with nothing to go on, and having to vote, perhaps lynching an inactive is the only choice (lynching the most active person certainly dosn't seem like the best idea ), basically unless more information crops up I think we have to lynch an inactive. What are we going to do if everyone posts though?
Everyone posting is what we want. That way we can look through posts and analyse them. Its much easier to analyse someone who posts a lot. (For obvious reasons)
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On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? Exactly. That's the plan. That way the mafia will forced to stay active where it is easier to find them. You can't analyze an inactive mafia. But you can analyze one that talks
On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote: no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage.
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. Someone hasn't been paying attention.
Remember, we aren't planning on lynching an inactive. It's a last resort situation if we don't find any mafia. Think of the votes as a magic wand. We wave the wand and suddenly people start talking.
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You should just vote for whoever you think will not help you win the game.
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On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? As to mafia being active to avoid being detected, that is a bit of WIFOM as we don't even know what DT's are really doing unless they tell us(they should not) and mafia being active is better than being inactive as we actually have something to analyze. If you don't like the plan offer some alternatives.
I don't really like how we have very little activity during the first day as the day is about to end soon.
Vote: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness As to my reason for voting, not much to go on really, and they seem to be the most inactive team so far.
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EBWOP: I just realized that pretty much most teams are inactive so there really is not that much of a reason for my vote.
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Well, if we're still going to be hunting inactives. Let's break down the list
1. LSB Active/Kavdragon Active 2. TheMangoIn Pokemafia/GmarshalInactive/FoolishnessInactive 3. BeneatherInactive/Bloody_C0bblerInactive 4. DeconduoActive/ChezinuInactive 5. Meapak_ZiphhIn Pokemafia/AceInactive 6. KingJames01Inactive/AidnaiActive 7. IncognitoInactive/SubversionActive 8. ChaoserInactive/NemesisActive 9. FlamewheelInactive/OrgoloveActive
Now, we'll take out all the spam posts. And the post that are responses to other people prodding them. Leaving us with unprovoked posts 1. LSB Active/Kavdragon Active 2. TheMangoIn Pokemafia/GmarshalActive/FoolishnessInactive 3. BeneatherInactive/Bloody_C0bblerInactive 4. DeconduoActive/ChezinuInactive 5. Meapak_ZiphhIn Pokemafia/AceInactive 6. KingJames01Inactive/AidnaiActive 7. IncognitoInactive/SubversionActive 8. ChaoserInactive/NemesisActive 9. FlamewheelInactive/OrgoloveInactive
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On January 05 2011 01:43 Ace wrote: You should just vote for whoever you think will not help you win the game.
This is an interesting perspective. I'm used to hearing that killing bad townies is still killing townies. A lot of the skill in scumhunting is in differentiating scum/bad townie, afterall.
On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote: ... I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. The idea is, use your vote to make something concrete happen.
I hope we avoid lynching the most vocal/active players this game. Pressure inactives, if someone presents a good lynch great, but let's not kill someone who will be active for the rest of the game.
I'll add some pressure for now. Vote: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness
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On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote: I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. You don't just 'wait' for concrete posts. People should be trying to make concrete posts.
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Yes it's still killing a townie but it gets you closer to your win condition. Doing it later in the game has major consequences but it's Day 1 and I don't see people trying to really do much.
Alas I can't vote. Oh well.
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Btw, I don't think Chezinu is even around TL. I've sent him PMs and have gotten no response. Looks like I'm on my own for now.
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Ok just gave my goodbye post in the other game...
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United States22154 Posts
Alright, I counted up who has the least number of posts and by my count that would be Beneather/Bloody_C0bbler (if I counted right, I was slightly rushed as chem lecture was almost over). I'll remind you guys that TheMango is away for most of today and hence why he hasn't been posting. I understand that Beneather is having difficulty in reaching BC but that could just be a clever tactic on BC's part (then again its possible he is just busy). Also Ace, whats up with "You should just vote for whoever you think will not help you win the game."? That's a rather... interesting post.
Anyway, I have to go to calculus now, I'll probably check back in with a vote after that.
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^^ I sent an email (as well as a pm) to KJ and haven't heard anything yet 0.0
not that there's a whole lot of anything to discuss with him anyway.
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Current Votes:
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 1 Kavdragon
Team 2: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness - 2 Aidnai Nemesis
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Please remember to use proper ## voting tags when voting. I almost missed your vote orgolove.
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Just over 7 hours remain in the day, please vote
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Current Votes:
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 1 Kavdragon
Team 2: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness Orgolove Aidani
It would really suck if everyone got modkilled and Orgo/Aidani were actually mafia.
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Blah, I don't really see anyone good to vote for yet. I mean theres not any real inactives, as at least one person on each team has been talking. Similarly I've seen nothing scummy from anyone yet.
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arghh, this is what I am talking about ##Vote is the correct tagging for voting. I missed Aidnai's vote and somehow thought Nemesis's vote was Orgolove's.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
3 pages in almost 2 days is lol
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##Vote Beneather/BC
I don't have much to go on, but they only have 2 posts. Both from Beneather and both of them one liner spam essentially. Not beneather's fault really, but I don't see a better option yet.
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On January 05 2011 04:53 LSB wrote: Current Votes:
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 1 Kavdragon
Team 2: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness Orgolove Aidani
It would really suck if everyone got modkilled and Orgo/Aidani were actually mafia. Hey at least nobody has to worry about being banned! (This game doesn't follow the ban list, so modkills from this game don't result in bans.)
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well my junior is suppose to be voting...>_<
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United States22154 Posts
##Vote Beneather/BC
As I said earlier they only have two posts, neither of which seems contribution, I understand BC might be away or something, but I want to preempt any possibility of him being a cautious lurker
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United States22154 Posts
since I cant edit and grammar mistakes annoy me to no end, I meant "neither of which seem to be a contribution" as the sentence stands now it makes no sense
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Current Votes:
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 1 Kavdragon
Team 2: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness - 2 Aidnai Nemesis
Team 3: Beneather/BloodyC0bbler - 1.5 Gmarshal (.5) Deconduo
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Vote please -_________- 5 hours remain in the Day
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Is this the way it's gonna be? learning games so sad... I'll be very sad if we don't have any more bootcamps because of this (and salem). PYP3 is more active, and it hasn't even started yet lol.
I don't want Gmarshal to actually die. He's one of the only actives at this point. So I'll switch to beneather/BC for lack of anything better...
##unvote ##Vote Beneather/BC
sorry about the ## thing before RoL
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Vote team 9 Im on my phone so I can't qoute but theres a post by orgolove which is making me do this.
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##Vote Team 9 sorry forgot formatting
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Current Votes:
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 2 Kavdragon Meapak_Ziphh
Team 2: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness - 1 Nemesis
Team 3: Beneather/BloodyC0bbler - 2.5 Gmarshal (.5) Deconduo Aidnai
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less than 4 hour remain.
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On January 03 2011 15:20 Ace wrote: What makes you think we won't find Scum on Day 1? Discourages Day 1 Discussion on Inactives
On January 05 2011 01:43 Ace wrote: You should just vote for whoever you think will not help you win the game. Suggesting we shouldn't even scumhunt
On January 05 2011 02:31 Ace wrote: Yes it's still killing a townie but it gets you closer to your win condition. Doing it later in the game has major consequences but it's Day 1 and I don't see people trying to really do much.
Alas I can't vote. Oh well. See above, continues to discourage actual discussion or scumhunting. Insteads supports killing off people who don't matter
On January 05 2011 08:15 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: ##Vote Team 9 sorry forgot formatting Randomly comes in and votes
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On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote: I apologize for being busy.
So we're having a day 1 lynch without any starting information huh. An open setup with unknown roleblockers gives a disadvantage to the town, but as the saying goes, "a challenge means god's afraid of your progress"
All right, lets see. ...
Looking at the past two pages, there's nothing to analyze. There's only been two votes, and the only discussion has been whether to lynch inactives.
no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage.
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on.
Considering this is Orgolove's only post since the day post, I figure you must mean this one meapak?
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aidnai, can you yell for your brother to get on and vote Meapak?
(would that count as PMing?)
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you want his phone number? i'll pm it lol, if that's legal.
Anyway, I think ace is harder to read than you make him out to be. And meapak did give a reason (sort of) for voting orgolove.
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Na, I was just wondering if you guys were right next to each other or something.
I wouldn't call Meapak's post a reason. I'd called it dodging a modkill.
As for Ace, he really did kill early day 1 discussion and hasn't been helpful at all.
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so...a taste of his own medicine then?
Nah, I'm at work, he's at school. I sent him a text, but he could be commuting right now.
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[QUOTE]On January 05 2011 01:22 LSB wrote: [QUOTE]On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote: [QUOTE]On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote: Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans.
[QUOTE]On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles.
[QUOTE]On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote: Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games.
A few things to talk about:
- Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives: A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive.
Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives.
We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive.
Plan Firstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM
Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas.
Generic Blue Activity plan One plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. [/QUOTE] Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on.
As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity.[/QUOTE]
i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected?[/QUOTE] Exactly. That's the plan. That way the mafia will forced to stay active where it is easier to find them. You can't analyze an inactive mafia. But you can analyze one that talks
Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
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omg, somehow completely fucked something up in the above post, sorry for the random screwed up quotes =/
also need to bold my vote
##Vote Beneather/BC
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Sorry for being inactive and all (schoolwork and socializing) Subversion would you mind reposting it so it is easier to read?
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Yes it was mostly to dodge a modkill but I wanted to pick someone who had said something I didn't agree with. It's the last line of orgolove's post I don't like
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concret to go on. This is either a really lame excuse for lurking or a mafia trying to kill discussion. There really hasen't been much to vote on but this quote stuck out to me as the scummiest thing said so far.
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Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good.
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Lol, yes, I was commuting. My previous vote was solely placed for the purpose of stirring up conversation, something that has not really succeed. Oh well, hope they are actually scum, cause if people don't start getting vocal, this is going to be a short game.
##Unvote ##Vote team 5: Meapak_Ziphh/Ace
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LSB where did I say lets not scumhunt? Are you sure you aren't reading my posts for what you want to see over what is actually there?
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On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good.
Well it's kinda frustrating have a teammate that is not here that you absolutely have no contact with it really ruins the experience of the game of having a senior right? You can basically say that to any other inactive team out there. I'm not going to be pointing my finger at another team since people are just voting for inactivity. But it seems like your just bandwagoning since you don't have any other person to vote for.
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On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote: I apologize for being busy.
So we're having a day 1 lynch without any starting information huh. An open setup with unknown roleblockers gives a disadvantage to the town, but as the saying goes, "a challenge means god's afraid of your progress"
All right, lets see. ...
Looking at the past two pages, there's nothing to analyze. There's only been two votes, and the only discussion has been whether to lynch inactives.
no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage.
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. Orgolove comes in, makes one long post and then disappears. If you actually look at his post, he doesn't really say anything except "there's nothing to analyze." and disagrees with lynching inactives without really adding any more.
Basically he makes a long post that doesn't really say anything.
##Unvote: Team 3 ##Vote: Team 9 Flamewheel/Orgolove
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EBWOP oops ##Unvote: Team 2 ##Vote: Team 9
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Why are you guys looking at a few posts and extracting baseless information from it? If orgolove is saying he's busy and afai doesnt have a history of lurking then let him be and look at the people pushing his wagon. These are terrible reasons for lynching people.
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I agree with you ace. Wanna lynch Nemesis?
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Although we should probably note that your team is currently 'pushing his wagon' lol.
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Well I have no voting power. I'd actually vote for LSB since I believe he has better reading skills than what he saw in my posts.
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On January 05 2011 09:51 Ace wrote: LSB where did I say lets not scumhunt? Are you sure you aren't reading my posts for what you want to see over what is actually there? Lets see what you suggested to do today
1. Not discuss lynching inactives. This is a great way to kill discussion. You've played many games and you know that the inactive talk, although repetitive, is a way to get people to start discussing things.
2. To kill someone who plays poorly You're suggesting that we should just kill someone who you know won't help the town win. Firstly, why is this different from killing an inactive? Which you so easily dismissed Secondly, what does killing someone because of meta considerations have to do with scum hunting?
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Yeah, the last shitty analysis I saw from LSB was in HP mafia, directed at me. He was scum that time...but he wanted to get lynched as I recall, so...hmm.
Even though LSB is pulling at straws with that 'analysis', I don't want to lynch him. 1) he's so pro-town he sucks at being scum. 2) if we kill him activity will grind to a halt and the game will end with less than 20 pages.
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How does "What makes you think we won't find Scum on Day 1?" = being Scummy? Yea I don't want to discuss lynching inactives. Doesn't make me scum just because I don't want to do what you want. Your analysis is so bad it seems as if you're trying to force yourself to find something to nitpick at here.
You even blamed me for killing discussion when let's face it - it was dead before I posted and dead after. You are really trying to push for something that didn't happen. So I should just go your route and come to the conclusion that you must be Scum because your analysis is terrible.
2. To kill someone who plays poorly You're suggesting that we should just kill someone who you know won't help the town win. Firstly, why is this different from killing an inactive? Which you so easily dismissed Secondly, what does killing someone because of meta considerations have to do with scum hunting?
Yes, kill people who we know are terrible. What's the problem? It's different from killing an inactive because one of them is bad and won't help you win no matter what, the other is in active. You didn't really need me to explain that did you?
Meta considerations come into play here because YOU want to kill in actives. Correct? So if orgolove says he's busy but doesn't have a history of being in active then hey - he really might be busy. Don't kill him just yet.
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On January 05 2011 02:31 Ace wrote: Yes it's still killing a townie but it gets you closer to your win condition. Doing it later in the game has major consequences but it's Day 1 and I don't see people trying to really do much.
Alas I can't vote. Oh well.
Since you're around Ace, I do want to hear more about this. How does lynching bad townies get us closer to our win condition? It's just one less townie for the mafia to kill, as far as I'm concerned.
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On January 05 2011 10:21 Ace wrote: How does "What makes you think we won't find Scum on Day 1?" = being Scummy? Yea I don't want to discuss lynching inactives. Doesn't make me scum just because I don't want to do what you want. Your analysis is so bad it seems as if you're trying to force yourself to find something to nitpick at here.
You even blamed me for killing discussion when let's face it - it was dead before I posted and dead after. You are really trying to push for something that didn't happen. So I should just go your route and come to the conclusion that you must be Scum because your analysis is terrible. The discussion was not dead. It was just beginning. And the reason why it was dead afterwards was that people like you were reluctant to discuss anything
If my analysis and motives were so terrible, why is the majority of discussion based off of what I've been doing/saying? I could have just handed the baton to Kavdragon and say "Hey, I don't have to play, I'll just advise". But instead I've actually tried to do stuff.
Show nested quote + 2. To kill someone who plays poorly You're suggesting that we should just kill someone who you know won't help the town win. Firstly, why is this different from killing an inactive? Which you so easily dismissed Secondly, what does killing someone because of meta considerations have to do with scum hunting?
Yes, kill people who we know are terrible. What's the problem? It's different from killing an inactive because one of them is bad and won't help you win no matter what, the other is in active. You didn't really need me to explain that did you? So you'd rather kill an active than an inactive?
Meta considerations come into play here because YOU want to kill in actives. Correct? So if orgolove says he's busy but doesn't have a history of being in active then hey - he really might be busy. Don't kill him just yet. Clear things up right now. I'm suggesting we should kill an inactive. You are suggesting we should kill someone who plays scummy and has a history of not helping the town.
Right now Meapak isn't active, and you aren't much of a help. You team falls under the inactive category. Who do you suggest that we should kill that plays scummy?
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United States22154 Posts
Well, this is causing quite a stir. Ace you seem to be pretty upset at the vote against orgolove. I didn't see this kind of reaction to when Beneather/BloodyC0bbler were under attack. But I like LSB's question. Who do you propose Ace?
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Although there doesn't seem to be too much discussion so far, I disagree with the notion that we don't have enough information to analyze.
It's a little tough since there are 2 or 3 members to keep track of for each team.
In the following I'm going to compile all of the posts made by the team of Foolishness, TheMango and GMarshal.
TheMango
On January 03 2011 21:18 TheMango wrote: Checking in, I might be away until tomorrow sometime, will be checking via phone and will be in touch with my team
Comment
- TheMango's only post has no information relevant to the game.
Foolishness
On January 04 2011 05:24 Foolishness wrote:From TL Mafia XXXV: Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:11 LSB wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I wanted to wait for the day post before posting this but w/e All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Framer Issue: Framers are much better put to use framing the important townies. So any attempt by the mafia for framing the inactives would be a waste. From this game: Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Copy paste ftw?
On January 05 2011 06:13 Foolishness wrote: 3 pages in almost 2 days is lol
Comments
- Foolishness has 2 posts in the game thus far.
- The first was made just to point out that LSB copied and pasted.
- The second adds nothing to the game.
GMarshal
On January 05 2011 01:12 GMarshal wrote:Well, I find this lack of information to be rather annoying, with nothing to go on, and having to vote, perhaps lynching an inactive is the only choice (lynching the most active person certainly dosn't seem like the best idea ), basically unless more information crops up I think we have to lynch an inactive. What are we going to do if everyone posts though?
On January 05 2011 03:37 GMarshal wrote: Alright, I counted up who has the least number of posts and by my count that would be Beneather/Bloody_C0bbler (if I counted right, I was slightly rushed as chem lecture was almost over). I'll remind you guys that TheMango is away for most of today and hence why he hasn't been posting. I understand that Beneather is having difficulty in reaching BC but that could just be a clever tactic on BC's part (then again its possible he is just busy). Also Ace, whats up with "You should just vote for whoever you think will not help you win the game."? That's a rather... interesting post.
Anyway, I have to go to calculus now, I'll probably check back in with a vote after that.
On January 05 2011 06:49 GMarshal wrote: ##Vote Beneather/BC
As I said earlier they only have two posts, neither of which seems contribution, I understand BC might be away or something, but I want to preempt any possibility of him being a cautious lurker
On January 05 2011 06:51 GMarshal wrote: since I cant edit and grammar mistakes annoy me to no end, I meant "neither of which seem to be a contribution" as the sentence stands now it makes no sense
On January 05 2011 10:52 GMarshal wrote: Well, this is causing quite a stir. Ace you seem to be pretty upset at the vote against orgolove. I didn't see this kind of reaction to when Beneather/BloodyC0bbler were under attack. But I like LSB's question. Who do you propose Ace?
Comments
- GMarshal is the most active member of this team with 5 posts.
- The first indicates his support of lynching inactive teams.
- The second chooses the "most" inactive team and justifies why his own team is inactive. He tentatively points a finger at Ace for his "rather... interesting" post.
- The third post is an "oh, I forgot to vote before" post.
- The fourth post is an edit/clarification.
- The fifth post is another finger pointed at Ace for his lack of reaction towards Beneather/BC.
I think that we should apply a little more pressure to this team.
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Current Votes:
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 1 Meapak_Ziphh Nemesis
Team 3: Beneather/BloodyC0bbler - 3.5 Gmarshal (.5) Deconduo Aidnai Subversion
Team 5: Meapak_Ziphh/Ace -1 Kavdragon
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Well, if TheMango doesn't vote soon, he's going to get modkilled, so I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue if they are mafia.
On the other hand, Ace is such an interesting candidate.
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Well, I just read through the thread and I'm pretty sure that RoL said there would be no modkills for inactivity.
Also, I think Beneather is not mafia and his team is at risk of being lynched.
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On January 05 2011 11:34 LSB wrote: Well, if TheMango doesn't vote soon, he's going to get modkilled, so I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue if they are mafia.
On the other hand, Ace is such an interesting candidate.
On January 05 2011 11:37 kingjames01 wrote: Well, I just read through the thread and I'm pretty sure that RoL said there would be no modkills for inactivity.
Also, I think Beneather is not mafia and his team is at risk of being lynched.
On January 04 2011 07:13 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 06:36 aidnai wrote: EBWOP
A few rules to clear up: Are we expected to stop communicating with our senior/junior partner if they are modkilled? Do we vote to lynch teams, or individuals?
This game will have no modkills, I have decided it is pointless because both juniors and seniors are useless without the other. If you are inactive then its your loss on a learning experience and I will ban you from future boot camps. By joining this game and going inactive you steel someone elses opportunity to learn which is a dick move.
Ace is always an interesting candidate. His philosophy for Mafia games is counter-intuitive at first sight but is very effective.
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On January 05 2011 11:40 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 11:34 LSB wrote: Well, if TheMango doesn't vote soon, he's going to get modkilled, so I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue if they are mafia.
On the other hand, Ace is such an interesting candidate. Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 11:37 kingjames01 wrote: Well, I just read through the thread and I'm pretty sure that RoL said there would be no modkills for inactivity.
Also, I think Beneather is not mafia and his team is at risk of being lynched. Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 07:13 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 04 2011 06:36 aidnai wrote: EBWOP
A few rules to clear up: Are we expected to stop communicating with our senior/junior partner if they are modkilled? Do we vote to lynch teams, or individuals?
This game will have no modkills, I have decided it is pointless because both juniors and seniors are useless without the other. If you are inactive then its your loss on a learning experience and I will ban you from future boot camps. By joining this game and going inactive you steel someone elses opportunity to learn which is a dick move. Ace is always an interesting candidate. His philosophy for Mafia games is counter-intuitive at first sight but is very effective.
Ah, but effective for town, or mafia?
The thing that bugs me about Ace is that he's posting, but his posts are almost all deconstructive. He shoots down ideas and doesn't suggest others. He defends himself, but won't contribute.
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There is really nothing I could do about being lynched. Since the people that already voted hasn't been here to change their decision.
There's really no information on who to vote for since there hasn't been much activity in this game. Also aidnai is supporting different people then all of a sudden against them very confusing.
On January 05 2011 10:02 aidnai wrote: I agree with you ace. Wanna lynch Nemesis?
On January 05 2011 10:04 aidnai wrote: Although we should probably note that your team is currently 'pushing his wagon' lol.
These post show that he agrees with what Ace is saying and just spamming away 1 line post etc.
On January 05 2011 10:15 aidnai wrote: Yeah, the last shitty analysis I saw from LSB was in HP mafia, directed at me. He was scum that time...but he wanted to get lynched as I recall, so...hmm.
Even though LSB is pulling at straws with that 'analysis', I don't want to lynch him. 1) he's so pro-town he sucks at being scum. 2) if we kill him activity will grind to a halt and the game will end with less than 20 pages.
Here he is protecting Ace from LSB's attack on Ace saying that he's too pro-town that he sucks at being a mafia. So basically he's saying that LSB is scum. But don't kill him because that would make less activity. This doesn't make sense because aren't we looking to lynch mafia. If we get a mafia then we're one step closer to win the game. If we get a mafia on day 1 we'll get more activity and so on. I'm not saying LSB is a mafia I'm just saying what aidnai is saying completely is going left to right.
On January 05 2011 10:30 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 02:31 Ace wrote: Yes it's still killing a townie but it gets you closer to your win condition. Doing it later in the game has major consequences but it's Day 1 and I don't see people trying to really do much.
Alas I can't vote. Oh well. Since you're around Ace, I do want to hear more about this. How does lynching bad townies get us closer to our win condition? It's just one less townie for the mafia to kill, as far as I'm concerned.
Alright this post confuses me as lynching a bad town really confuses a town if he's a scum or if he's just a bad town. That's what we have to choose between to find scum. But aidnai is just saying that it is 1 less town that the mafia kills but that gets the closer to their own objective of out numbering the town. I believe the more town we have from not lynching them in Days is better for it will take longer for the Mafia to kill the town. It will also give the town more time to find these mafias. Yes lynching an inactive is good for the beginning but wouldn't it be better to lynch someone that is acting scummy. Near the end the DT's should have role checked the inactives to see if their scum. I think that's a better way of doing it because there is not other way of finding if their scum or towny since they're inactive.
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In the following I'm going to compile all of the posts made by the team of Beneather and bloodyc0bbler.
bloodyc0bbler
Comment
- bloodyc0bbler has not posted during this game.
Beneather
On January 04 2011 05:19 Beneather wrote: Happy New Year everyone checking in. I have a problem I haven't gotten a response from my partner Bloody C0bbler yet.
On January 04 2011 12:17 Beneather wrote: LSB I did post but since you didn't see it. I was saying that I couldn't get a hold of Bloody_C0bbler. Is this a problem for the whole game or just for me?
On January 05 2011 09:06 Beneather wrote: Sorry for being inactive and all (schoolwork and socializing) Subversion would you mind reposting it so it is easier to read?
On January 05 2011 09:52 Beneather wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good. Well it's kinda frustrating have a teammate that is not here that you absolutely have no contact with it really ruins the experience of the game of having a senior right? You can basically say that to any other inactive team out there. I'm not going to be pointing my finger at another team since people are just voting for inactivity. But it seems like your just bandwagoning since you don't have any other person to vote for.
Comments
- Beneather has posted that he has not been in touch with bloodyc0bbler.
- Subversion accuses Beneather of acting "like a scummy junior" who "would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by."
- Subversion adds more justification to his vote by pointing out that BC has not posted yet.
- Beneather has some experience playing TL Mafia and I think he would post without having to check with BC first.
I think that the Beneather/bloodyc0bbler team is not Mafia and we need to do something to save them. Also, Subversion's post that was quoted above makes me suspicious of him.
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Kingjames. So are you fingering Subversion?
Well, day is over
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I agree that I don't think that they are mafia, mostly because there has been little resistance to the lynch. What do you suggest we do to save them, and who would we push the lynch to?
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EBWDP:
I agree with KJ that Ben/BC don't look scummy to me. Also, I realized that Ace wasn't happy with the lynch, so that is resistance, but I still don't get the impression that they are scummy.
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Oh yeah forgot to vote ##Vote: Aidnai
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I hope this isn't too late
##Unvote Beneather/BC ##Vote GMarshal/Foolishness/whoever
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On January 05 2011 11:55 kingjames01 wrote: I think that the Beneather/bloodyc0bbler team is not Mafia and we need to do something to save them. Also, Subversion's post that was quoted above makes me suspicious of him.
On January 05 2011 12:17 aidnai wrote: I hope this isn't too late
##Unvote Beneather/BC ##Vote GMarshal/Foolishness/whoever
This certainly isn't helping "save" Ben and BC. If you wanted to save him, why not vote Flamewheel? Orgolove isn't particularly active either, and that would get them lynched instead of Ben/BC. (I'm not of the opinion right now that they are a better target, but if you think that Ben/BC is town, then it seems like a more logical choice...)
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After reading and thinking, wanted to post my vote as quickly as possible.
The reason I'm switching my vote off beneather is that he posted an analysis of me (quoted below) that makes me think he is town. Also, if he flips red, it will obviously mean nothing. So why would he bother writing it at all? Finally, they did nothing scummy to earn my vote in the first place, the problem was, they did nothing at all. Now that beneather has posted, it's time to move on.
The reason I'm switching to Gmarshal/Foolishness/TheMango (sorry about forgetting you in my vote) is because I'm following my senior's analysis on this one, and that's the only way to save beneather I believe.
RoL, please let my vote count or extend day or something. The inactivity is making this hard
On January 05 2011 11:55 Beneather wrote:There is really nothing I could do about being lynched. Since the people that already voted hasn't been here to change their decision. There's really no information on who to vote for since there hasn't been much activity in this game. Also aidnai is supporting different people then all of a sudden against them very confusing. Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 10:02 aidnai wrote: I agree with you ace. Wanna lynch Nemesis? Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 10:04 aidnai wrote: Although we should probably note that your team is currently 'pushing his wagon' lol. These post show that he agrees with what Ace is saying and just spamming away 1 line post etc. Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 10:15 aidnai wrote: Yeah, the last shitty analysis I saw from LSB was in HP mafia, directed at me. He was scum that time...but he wanted to get lynched as I recall, so...hmm.
Even though LSB is pulling at straws with that 'analysis', I don't want to lynch him. 1) he's so pro-town he sucks at being scum. 2) if we kill him activity will grind to a halt and the game will end with less than 20 pages. Here he is protecting Ace from LSB's attack on Ace saying that he's too pro-town that he sucks at being a mafia. So basically he's saying that LSB is scum. But don't kill him because that would make less activity. This doesn't make sense because aren't we looking to lynch mafia. If we get a mafia then we're one step closer to win the game. If we get a mafia on day 1 we'll get more activity and so on. I'm not saying LSB is a mafia I'm just saying what aidnai is saying completely is going left to right. Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 10:30 aidnai wrote:On January 05 2011 02:31 Ace wrote: Yes it's still killing a townie but it gets you closer to your win condition. Doing it later in the game has major consequences but it's Day 1 and I don't see people trying to really do much.
Alas I can't vote. Oh well. Since you're around Ace, I do want to hear more about this. How does lynching bad townies get us closer to our win condition? It's just one less townie for the mafia to kill, as far as I'm concerned. Alright this post confuses me as lynching a bad town really confuses a town if he's a scum or if he's just a bad town. That's what we have to choose between to find scum. But aidnai is just saying that it is 1 less town that the mafia kills but that gets the closer to their own objective of out numbering the town. I believe the more town we have from not lynching them in Days is better for it will take longer for the Mafia to kill the town. It will also give the town more time to find these mafias. Yes lynching an inactive is good for the beginning but wouldn't it be better to lynch someone that is acting scummy. Near the end the DT's should have role checked the inactives to see if their scum. I think that's a better way of doing it because there is not other way of finding if their scum or towny since they're inactive.
My comments on this to beneather: First, I was around this afternoon, so if you had posted earlier, i could have changed my vote earlier. Like you, I was forced to post without input from my senior. Unlike you, I was actively pushing and trying to generate some discussion. I'm not flipflopping around, either. I think Nemesis' vote was fishy to say the least, and even though I don't trust LSB or Ace per se, I don't think they are scum either.
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On January 05 2011 12:09 Beneather wrote: Oh yeah forgot to vote ##Vote: Aidnai
Beneather, aidnai is on my team. You are voting for him because he has been vocal against several teams. His intention was to apply pressure and draw out inactive players.
At the moment, we're working to try and save you. I know that the original voting deadline has passed but just in case we get an extension, switch it to someone who might be Mafia.
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Hey, I am really sorry. I was expecting to get back before 10 from the gym/dinner but it took a lot longer then expected. I will count votes only up until 10. Unless you guys feel the day should be extended. If you guys would like the Day extended 24 hours, I will allow it. Need a 75% majority on the poll. Votes up until 10 will count, and I will post the day post at 12 if the day is not voted for extension.
Poll: Extend the day?Yes. (10) 71% No. (4) 29% 14 total votes Your vote: Extend the day? (Vote): Yes. (Vote): No.
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On January 05 2011 12:06 LSB wrote: Kingjames. So are you fingering Subversion?
Well, day is over
To be honest, I think Kavdragon is Red and, by association, you.
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On January 05 2011 12:36 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 12:09 Beneather wrote: Oh yeah forgot to vote ##Vote: Aidnai Beneather, aidnai is on my team. You are voting for him because he has been vocal against several teams. His intention was to apply pressure and draw out inactive players. At the moment, we're working to try and save you. I know that the original voting deadline has passed but just in case we get an extension, switch it to someone who might be Mafia.
Alright, I understand. Now Sorry Aidnai.
##Unvote ##Vote: Flamewheel/Oroglove
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On January 05 2011 12:41 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 12:06 LSB wrote: Kingjames. So are you fingering Subversion?
Well, day is over To be honest, I think Kavdragon is Red and, by association, you.
Cool! let's get people talking about this. KJ, what do you think is scummy about me? Anybody else have some opinions to weigh in? Please, by all means discuss me. Even if it ends in me being lynched, it'll hopefully generate alot of discussion. (Though I do think that LSB is a valuable asset to the town, and I'd hate to see him go with me.)
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Are Seniors allowed to vote in the day extension poll?
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Everyone can vote who is in the game.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Voted. I do need orgolove in the game to play though, since I'm working on other stuff for TL right now. In his defense, I'd say he is busy. He hasn't even posted in my game since the last day. Can't really speak for any meta since I don't think that matters, but voting him is just a silly idea.
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On January 05 2011 12:41 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 12:06 LSB wrote: Kingjames. So are you fingering Subversion?
Well, day is over To be honest, I think Kavdragon is Red and, by association, you. That still doesn't awnser the question.
Your comments on Beneather are made assuming that Subversion should be distrusted. Can you explain why?
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Longer days are better for town, no? So every townie should be voting for a longer day. There are three votes for no extension. This would imply that all but one mafia are indeed actively checking the forum. I realize that while the mafia may be checking the forum, that's no guarantee that they are actually posting. The one vote missing is interesting however. BC, Chezinu, chaoser, and Incognito are the names that stick out to me as being people who might not be on at this time, and might not vote against. Anyone else there's anything to analyze here?
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On January 05 2011 13:12 flamewheel wrote: Voted. I do need orgolove in the game to play though, since I'm working on other stuff for TL right now. In his defense, I'd say he is busy. He hasn't even posted in my game since the last day. Can't really speak for any meta since I don't think that matters, but voting him is just a silly idea.
Wait, so just keeping track of the tallies every few minutes, this means that you voted against the time extension? Why would you vote to give us less time?
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Current Votes:
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 1 Meapak_Ziphh Nemesis
Team 2: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness - 0
Nemesis
Team 3: Beneather/BloodyC0bbler - 3.5 Gmarshal (.5) Deconduo Aidnai Subversion
Vote team 5: Meapak_Ziphh/Ace - 1 Kavdragon
______________
Final vote tally, team 3 to be lynched. Town cannot get the required +6 votes to hit a 75% majority in the next 20 minutes.
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Night 1
As half the town sit at home drunkenly flipping through the television channels, the other half of the town halfheartedly went knocking at Beneather and BloodyC0bblers door. As Beneather answered the door he looked a little panicked, and cried to the mob "Bloodyc0bbler is unconscious and not responding to my PM's!" A man in the mob snorted with laughter and shot back the wittiest thing he could think of "The two of you are about to have something in common then." Beneather kicked and screamed as they dragged him and BloodyC0bblers lifeless body to the center of town where they were hung on display for all to see. BloodyC0bbler didn't break his composure once, but Beneather twitched and moaned a couple of times before going limp.
Team 3: Beneather/BloodyC0bbler the Townie had died.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On January 05 2011 13:21 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 13:12 flamewheel wrote: Voted. I do need orgolove in the game to play though, since I'm working on other stuff for TL right now. In his defense, I'd say he is busy. He hasn't even posted in my game since the last day. Can't really speak for any meta since I don't think that matters, but voting him is just a silly idea. Wait, so just keeping track of the tallies every few minutes, this means that you voted against the time extension? Why would you vote to give us less time? Because, frankly, I'd rather not have my team lynched when orgolove isn't going to be around to offer any defense. orgolove hasn't been around in my game for more than a day, and he hasn't show any sign of being around then. Given as I don't want to play this game, the information gotten from this lynch is more important than having to present a useless defense on day 1.
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Night phase has started, everyone who has night actions please send them in. Night ends 10PM EST tomorrow (12:00 KST).
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
I apologize - my schedule is really off right now. I promise I'll be here more often.
Gmarshal (.5) Deconduo Aidnai Subversion
Huh - wait a minute - town had nothing to go on. Why did you guys vote?
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
I mean, what made you vote for Beneather?
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On January 05 2011 23:02 orgolove wrote: I mean, what made you vote for Beneather?
Most people gave reasons when voting. For myself, it was because BC hadn't posted at all and Beneather had 2 spam posts. Its unfortunate that it turned out like it did, but we are better off to have inactive towns out of the game early.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 05 2011 23:02 orgolove wrote: I mean, what made you vote for Beneather?
I think it was the whole 'vote for the inactives' strategy that LSB brought up, since there wasn't much else to go by. (aka the same strategy we are currently using to poor effect in the other mafia game). I would have voted along with my team mate Gmarshal, but I was busy yesterday and missed the vote t.t.
Not sure how different it is, but in the games I play in real life, if we dont have a clear suspect, we usually pass on voting, since in the beginning of the game the chances of voting off a town sided role is much higher. So my question is, is voting off the inactives early a more viable strategy in this type of game, or is the strategy flawed?
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I would like to apologize to all those in this game, and especially my partner.
I had informed RoL that I was going on vacation from the 29th till today (jan 5th) and have had next to no access to the net aside from airports. I did not realize the game would start within that window I was gone, nor did I realize the first day was already done. Sorry for ruining the game for my partner, and goodluck the rest of you.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
>>>> Vote for inactives strategy is... not beneficial at all for the town, to say the least. The reds can subtly direct to whoever they would know is not a red and yet inactive. :/ We as town have no information, and reds can use that to lynch a green. If we don't have any information, pressuring is fine.. but just hitting someone because they're inactive is not a good strategy at all. This is why I also like the mayor idea for the first day, as it gives a way for town to get useful info on day 1...
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On January 06 2011 01:10 orgolove wrote: >>>> Vote for inactives strategy is... not beneficial at all for the town, to say the least. The reds can subtly direct to whoever they would know is not a red and yet inactive. :/ We as town have no information, and reds can use that to lynch a green. If we don't have any information, pressuring is fine.. but just hitting someone because they're inactive is not a good strategy at all. This is why I also like the mayor idea for the first day, as it gives a way for town to get useful info on day 1...
It is beneficial in a number of ways:
1. It encourages activity. People don't want to be lynched, so they will (hopefully) start posting more.
2. It gets rid of inactive townies earlier on rather than later. Mafia have no incentive to kill an inactive townie, so they live until the end of the game if they aren't lynched. You then might need to pick a mafia out of a bunch of people with less that 3 posts each, not at all helpful to town.
3. If the mafia do push the lynch to a green rather than a mafia, we still get to look at the voting patterns and the posts. For example today, who voted for BC/Beneather over other inactives, and why? Were BC/Beneather the most inactive team?
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On January 05 2011 23:02 orgolove wrote:I apologize - my schedule is really off right now. I promise I'll be here more often. Gmarshal (.5) Deconduo Aidnai Subversion Huh - wait a minute - town had nothing to go on. Why did you guys vote? Why didn't you vote?
On January 06 2011 00:34 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 23:02 orgolove wrote: I mean, what made you vote for Beneather? I think it was the whole 'vote for the inactives' strategy that LSB brought up, since there wasn't much else to go by. (aka the same strategy we are currently using to poor effect in the other mafia game). I would have voted along with my team mate Gmarshal, but I was busy yesterday and missed the vote t.t. Not sure how different it is, but in the games I play in real life, if we dont have a clear suspect, we usually pass on voting, since in the beginning of the game the chances of voting off a town sided role is much higher. So my question is, is voting off the inactives early a more viable strategy in this type of game, or is the strategy flawed? Well, remember, we can't abstain. So in reality, the vote was a vote of confidence for Ace. Since we only had one scum candidate, it was either vote for Ace because you think he's scum. Or don't vote for Ace and try to redirect the lynch.
On January 06 2011 01:10 orgolove wrote: >>>> Vote for inactives strategy is... not beneficial at all for the town, to say the least. The reds can subtly direct to whoever they would know is not a red and yet inactive. :/ We as town have no information, and reds can use that to lynch a green. If we don't have any information, pressuring is fine.. but just hitting someone because they're inactive is not a good strategy at all. This is why I also like the mayor idea for the first day, as it gives a way for town to get useful info on day 1... Great Idea about pressuring someone. Have you been doing this?
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yeah, nice of you guys (orgo, mango) to show up now...
I got a really bad feeling from Nemesis' vote on orgolove yesterday.
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Well, I've heard some advocate silence during night, but I think that's a terrible Idea, so let's get talking.
Things to discuss: Votes: It seems like the people who were on towards the end of the day were in favor of switching the lynch to someone other than Ben/BC, but there weren't enough people on to swing the vote. To those who claim to have been away: Would you have switched your vote? Ben was certainly not the most inactive player, and while he apologized a lot for being inactive towards the beginning, he was not at all inactive in the last few hours.
Inactives: (No, i don't support lynching another one, but It's something to look at.) It seems to me that Meapak_Ziphh has been very inactive. I think that his team would be worth a DT check if we have one.
Persons that have been FoS'd Kavdragon (By KJ. Would like to hear more on this) Nemesis (By Aidnai. Would like to hear a better reason than "I got bad feelings from him")\ Orgolove (By Kavdragon. Explination/analysis to come.)
Direction for blue roles: Do we want to give suggestions to blues? If so what? I suggest the same thing that LSB was saying: DT's check inactives, Medics protect vocal players. Anyone else have opinions on this?
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United States1966 Posts
well, I think those advocating silence during the night have a valid point, as we do not know which setup this game is running yet. If there is a roleblocker in the game, narrowing down the options for DT can also backfire if his target gets roleblocked. I think early on, we should leave it to DT discretion (if there even is one this game)
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United States1966 Posts
[QUOTE]On January 06 2011 05:01 Kavdragon wrote: Well, I've heard some advocate silence during night, but I think that's a terrible Idea, so let's get talking.
Inactives: (No, i don't support lynching another one, but It's something to look at.) It seems to me that Meapak_Ziphh has been very inactive. I think that his team would be worth a DT check if we have one.
Ace has been posting a bit, but haven't seen meapak post here for a while (but he seemed fairly active on IRC in the other mafia game - he just got lynched as a townie yesterday)
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yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet.
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How would different setups mean that we should or should not keep quiet?
Look, This game is about finding reds and killing them. How do we do that? By looking at posts. We have to analyze what people are saying, and the only way that we can do that is if they have said something. We had the chance to extend the day, but enough voted against it that we had to make due with what little talk had occurred up to that point.
So we are behind on the volume of discussion, and you are advocating that we don't talk? How is this a good idea? "We can't act on it yet" Yes, we can't lynch people yet, but that certainly doesn't mean that we can't analyze people and build up more material to analyze for tomorrow.
Ver himself said that the town benefits immensely from longer days, and mafia from shorter days. Why wait to start tomorrow till the morning? Why not start the discussion right now? It makes no sense to me. Can anyone explain why "Nighttime is not towntime"?
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United States1966 Posts
the only point of discussing during nighttime is to help our blues make their decisions, and without knowing the setup, you run a serious risk of helping scum team (on who they will kill/avoid killing due to possible medic save, and a possible wasted DT check due to roleblocker.) At least that's my take on it, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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On January 06 2011 05:06 TheMango wrote: well, I think those advocating silence during the night Umm... What do you mean by this?
Are you saying that we shouldn't try to generate activity during the night? Are you implying that other people have advocated this position?
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On January 06 2011 05:31 TheMango wrote: the only point of discussing during nighttime is to help our blues make their decisions, and without knowing the setup, you run a serious risk of helping scum team (on who they will kill/avoid killing due to possible medic save, and a possible wasted DT check due to roleblocker.) At least that's my take on it, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Can't we scumhunt, or discuss the greenness/redness of Ace's team.
Speaking of which, what is your opinion of Ace?
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United States1966 Posts
On January 06 2011 05:31 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:06 TheMango wrote: well, I think those advocating silence during the night Umm... What do you mean by this? Are you saying that we shouldn't try to generate activity during the night? Are you implying that other people have advocated this position?
Please follow the whole thread, as I'm obviously quoting kavdragon who initially said that. I'm saying that at the very least people should be careful about suggesting things to our blues when mafia could easily use it against us (especially if they have a roleblocker).
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United States1966 Posts
On January 06 2011 05:32 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:31 TheMango wrote: the only point of discussing during nighttime is to help our blues make their decisions, and without knowing the setup, you run a serious risk of helping scum team (on who they will kill/avoid killing due to possible medic save, and a possible wasted DT check due to roleblocker.) At least that's my take on it, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Can't we scumhunt, or discuss the greenness/redness of Ace's team. Speaking of which, what is your opinion of Ace?
I have no opinion of Ace, but I'm suspicious of Meapak who was active on IRC even after he was incorrectly lynched in the other game, but has not posted for a while in this thread.
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On January 06 2011 05:31 TheMango wrote: the only point of discussing during nighttime is to help our blues make their decisions, and without knowing the setup, you run a serious risk of helping scum team (on who they will kill/avoid killing due to possible medic save, and a possible wasted DT check due to roleblocker.) At least that's my take on it, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Nighttime discussions can be about whatever we want them to be about. If you're afraid that talking about blues will put them at risk, then let's talk about something else. The point is that we HAVE to talk, or there will be nothing to analyze. I argue that if we start talking now, we essentially extend the day by 24 hrs, something that can only help the town.
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On January 06 2011 05:01 Kavdragon wrote: Persons that have been FoS'd Kavdragon (By KJ. Would like to hear more on this) Nemesis (By Aidnai. Would like to hear a better reason than "I got bad feelings from him")\ Orgolove (By Kavdragon. Explination/analysis to come.) Besides my push against Ace. (Ace you still have to answer my questions!) I don't believe that there is anything substantial in the three points.
Obviously Kavdragon is town aligned.
Nemesis has about 2-3 posts talking about lynching inactives. Although this does indeed seem like lurking, Nemesis isn't the only one doing this, and I'm also intrested in Aidnai's FOS
Orgolove- The thing with Orgolove is that Day 1 he literally only had one post, and after the lynch accused others of making an uninformed lynch. On the other hand, from what I glanced at his play in Mafia XXXV (Note, I don't know his alignment), it seems very similar.
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On January 06 2011 05:37 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:31 LSB wrote:On January 06 2011 05:06 TheMango wrote: well, I think those advocating silence during the night Umm... What do you mean by this? Are you saying that we shouldn't try to generate activity during the night? Are you implying that other people have advocated this position? Please follow the whole thread, as I'm obviously quoting kavdragon who initially said that. I'm saying that at the very least people should be careful about suggesting things to our blues when mafia could easily use it against us (especially if they have a roleblocker).
I was referring to people in other games, and I think that LSB thought you were referring to people in this game. A misunderstanding, most likely.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 06 2011 05:44 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:01 Kavdragon wrote: Persons that have been FoS'd Kavdragon (By KJ. Would like to hear more on this) Nemesis (By Aidnai. Would like to hear a better reason than "I got bad feelings from him")\ Orgolove (By Kavdragon. Explination/analysis to come.) Besides my push against Ace. (Ace you still have to answer my questions!) I don't believe that there is anything substantial in the three points. Obviously Kavdragon is town aligned.Nemesis has about 2-3 posts talking about lynching inactives. Although this does indeed seem like lurking, Nemesis isn't the only one doing this, and I'm also intrested in Aidnai's FOS Orgolove- The thing with Orgolove is that Day 1 he literally only had one post, and after the lynch accused others of making an uninformed lynch. On the other hand, from what I glanced at his play in Mafia XXXV (Note, I don't know his alignment), it seems very similar.
Just pointing out, its an obvious thing to say if you were a mafia team also, as you are senior on kavdragon's team :p
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Mango, I wondering whether you were suggesting that the town maintain complete silence or just silence on the blue issue
For Example
On January 06 2011 05:15 aidnai wrote: yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet. Aidnai wishes for complete silence (Assuming his post isn't sarcastic)
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On January 06 2011 05:15 aidnai wrote: yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet. What do you mean no reason to generate discussion? Generating discussion is always a good thing. We should take advantage of every minute we have in the game.
Sorry, I didn't get the chance to vote when we were extending day time.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 06 2011 05:49 LSB wrote:Mango, I wondering whether you were suggesting that the town maintain complete silence or just silence on the blue issue For Example Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:15 aidnai wrote: yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet. Aidnai wishes for complete silence (Assuming his post isn't sarcastic)
I don't see a reason why we cant have a general discussion and still put pressure on people/scum hunt. However, I think we should be very careful on giving any kind of specific direction or advice to our blues without first knowing the setup.
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On January 06 2011 05:15 aidnai wrote: yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet.
Could you please explain this further? What do you mean "we can't act on [it]"?
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United States22154 Posts
On January 06 2011 05:52 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 05:49 LSB wrote:Mango, I wondering whether you were suggesting that the town maintain complete silence or just silence on the blue issue For Example On January 06 2011 05:15 aidnai wrote: yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet. Aidnai wishes for complete silence (Assuming his post isn't sarcastic) I don't see a reason why we cant have a general discussion and still put pressure on people/scum hunt. However, I think we should be very careful on giving any kind of specific direction or advice to our blues without first knowing the setup.
I completely agree, we don't even know if we have blues but if we do the last thing we want is to spell out their moves to the mafia. I also think its a good proposition to put pressure on people. So, speaking of pressure aidnai why would you want to forestall discussion isn't that a bit suspicious? and Ace you still have some explaining to do, I believe LSB asked you a couple questions.
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I mean we townies can't act on it. Except blues, but I'm all for leaving the blues to act on their own.
Giving out information during night 1 really hurt town in experimental mini mafia (I was scum that game). We had a medic claim, another blue claim, I forget what else, but me and my scumbuddies were laughing it up in our IRC as town shot themselves in one foot then the other. KJ might remember better.
The gist of my thought is: any info you give out at night can be used against town, and can't be used by town until morning. So wait until morning. Take this time to go over the thread with your partner or something.
However if anyone really wants to go on being vocal and jolly go right ahead, it certainly will give me more to analyze.
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I disagree. I think that you are trying to excuse yourself from being active for the night, by saying that talk about blues can hurt the town. I never said we have to talk about blues, I simply suggested it as a topic we might want to discuss. We aren't just giving out information, we are discussing things we already know. We are looking at / analyzing what has been said, and building a bigger pool of posts to analyze for tomorrow.
As you say in the end of the post, the more we talk, the more we have to analyze.
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Please send in your night actions to both me and Annul if you haven't already done so. Night ends in 2.5 hours.
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Assuming that we have no blues, it seems likely to me that LSB and myself might be silenced forever, so I'm going to put out a few thoughts that may not be well formed, but I still want to share.
Aidnai's resistance to conversation makes me lightly suspicious of him. KingJames has done little, but what he has done has been decidedly pro-town imo. If they don't die soon, I'd look at them.
I'm also lightly suspicious of Teams 7 and 8 for little involvement, and general unhelpfulness.
Please don't let the inactives stay inactive. Widespread and constant discussion is good for the town. If we don't have stuff to analyze then we can't play the game. Yes, there are things to discuss right now, but there will obviously need to be more new things to talk about, so don't let the discussion die.
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Err, to be clear, I think that either Aidnai/KJ are mafia or very pro town. (Yeah, i know opposite ends, the best disguise for mafia is pro-town imo.) So, if they are mafia, then they will likely stay alive. If they are town, the mafia will likely see them as a threat, and kill them off. So if they are still alive late in the game, I'd take a close look at them.
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Day 2
It wasn’t easy shifting through the remains. The DNA samples were inconclusive, and we had no idea what we were facing or what happened. The cause of death was uncertain. The moment of death could not be determined. All we had were tubs of waste marked “Bio Hazard”
The breakthrough came when the pathologist traveled to the CDC headquarters in Atlanta to consult the world renowned research scientists LSB and Kavdragon. The scientists had no idea what was happening. They conducted numerous trials, and what they found they could not predict
Two days later, behind vacuum sealed doors and experimental anti-microbial electric fields. LSB and Kavdragon emerged. Well, bits of them at least. The pool of gore was slowly being spread around by the weak fan that no one turned off.
Something had been tampered with. One of the doctors who worked on the project had inserted defects into the equipment. All the data disappeared. This wasn’t a magic disease. This was a controlled weapon that spreads by betrayal.
Immediately we sealed off the research lab and isolated all doctors who had any contact with the samples. However, this isn’t enough. We need to know what we’re dealing with. We need the people responsible.
Find them
LSB the Townie is dead Kavdragon the Townie is dead ___ Day ends Friday 10pm EST
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Thanks again to LSB for the day post, kind of ironic that you wrote out your own death
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Well, what can I say? The call for renowned biochemists knows no bounds. I signed up for the test knowing what the risks were, and I regret nothing. GL town.
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United States22154 Posts
Well, LSB did leave us with a FOS for ace, so I propose we start by pressuring him. So Ace, care to justify your actions over the last day?
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On January 06 2011 12:35 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Thanks again to LSB for the day post, kind of ironic that you wrote out your own death Figured actually. That's why me and Kav are world renowned!
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Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked
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On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked
Forgive me if I don't believe you. If you were roleblocked, why would you even admit to that? The Roleblocker wouldn't know that he had successfully found a Blue. You could have just stayed quiet and used your power tonight.
My opinion is that you're actually Mafia and you're worried that you might get lynched today. I've pointed out that you've been suspicious and now you're panicking.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 06 2011 15:31 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked Forgive me if I don't believe you. If you were roleblocked, why would you even admit to that? The Roleblocker wouldn't know that he had successfully found a Blue. You could have just stayed quiet and used your power tonight. My opinion is that you're actually Mafia and you're worried that you might get lynched today. I've pointed out that you've been suspicious and now you're panicking.
Shouldn't a roleblocked person always out themselves? What is there to gain by keeping quiet? Since subversion has not roleclaimed, mafia should still have no new information, while it possibly helps town.
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On January 06 2011 15:42 annul wrote: nevermind
annul, you actually won Experimental Mini Mafia as a Red. Why don't you count that one?
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On January 06 2011 15:46 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 15:31 kingjames01 wrote:On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked Forgive me if I don't believe you. If you were roleblocked, why would you even admit to that? The Roleblocker wouldn't know that he had successfully found a Blue. You could have just stayed quiet and used your power tonight. My opinion is that you're actually Mafia and you're worried that you might get lynched today. I've pointed out that you've been suspicious and now you're panicking. Shouldn't a roleblocked person always out themselves? What is there to gain by keeping quiet? Since subversion has not roleclaimed, mafia should still have no new information, while it possibly helps town.
Well, let's consider what you're saying. If he is telling the truth, then what has the Town learned by Subversion revealing that he's been Roleblocked?
It let's us know that the set-up is: 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 5 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective.
It also let's the Mafia know that Subversion is a Blue. That makes him a target for tonight.
Now consider if Subversion is Red and is lying. A good reason for him to lie about being roleblocked is if there is no Roleblocker in the game.
That would mean that the set-up is one of: 2 Mafia Goon, 1 Medic, 6 Town 2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town
He can safely lie about being roleblocked since there is 1 Blue out there.
If the true Blue reveals himself, then he's a target for tonight.
Subversion will dodge the lynch especially if he gets support from his Mafia buddies.
Too bad I can't vote or I'd register my vote now. Don't believe Subversion's sub-version of the truth.
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United States1966 Posts
I see, so you only get the mesg that you've been roleblocked if you are actually a blue? What happens if you're a green?
Don't believe Subversion's sub-version of the truth.
lol cute
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On January 06 2011 16:05 TheMango wrote:I see, so you only get the mesg that you've been roleblocked if you are actually a blue? What happens if you're a green? lol cute
As far as I understand it, you only get told that you've been roleblocked if your action doesn't go through.
Greens don't have abilities so they can't be blocked.
If Subversion was telling the truth, then he can only be a Medic or a DT.
If he was a Medic, then it only matters if he was trying to save LSB/Kavdragon.
If he was a DT, then he didn't get his check.
Anyway, I don't believe him so it doesn't matter. He's doing this to dodge the lynch.
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On January 06 2011 15:47 kingjames01 wrote:annul, you actually won Experimental Mini Mafia as a Red. Why don't you count that one?
i dont count minis - they are a side game to me
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On January 06 2011 16:49 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 15:47 kingjames01 wrote:On January 06 2011 15:42 annul wrote: nevermind annul, you actually won Experimental Mini Mafia as a Red. Why don't you count that one? i dont count minis - they are a side game to me
ah, okay! That's what I figured you were doing.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On January 06 2011 16:15 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 16:05 TheMango wrote:I see, so you only get the mesg that you've been roleblocked if you are actually a blue? What happens if you're a green? Don't believe Subversion's sub-version of the truth. lol cute As far as I understand it, you only get told that you've been roleblocked if your action doesn't go through. Greens don't have abilities so they can't be blocked. If Subversion was telling the truth, then he can only be a Medic or a DT. If he was a Medic, then it only matters if he was trying to save LSB/Kavdragon. If he was a DT, then he didn't get his check. Anyway, I don't believe him so it doesn't matter. He's doing this to dodge the lynch. Actually I'm wondering if you've read the rules kingjames01. They clearly state:
Mafia Roleblocker Each night you may send in a hit and roleblock one target. A role blocked target is informed that they were role blocked whether they are green or blue. You may role block the same person on consecutive nights. And it can't be a redact. The time of your post is 16:00, and the last edit is at 12:00. So regardless of whether or not Subversion is telling the truth, that line of reason is faulty.
On January 06 2011 06:52 aidnai wrote: I mean we townies can't act on it. Except blues, but I'm all for leaving the blues to act on their own.
Giving out information during night 1 really hurt town in experimental mini mafia (I was scum that game). We had a medic claim, another blue claim, I forget what else, but me and my scumbuddies were laughing it up in our IRC as town shot themselves in one foot then the other. KJ might remember better.
The gist of my thought is: any info you give out at night can be used against town, and can't be used by town until morning. So wait until morning. Take this time to go over the thread with your partner or something.
However if anyone really wants to go on being vocal and jolly go right ahead, it certainly will give me more to analyze. That experimental mini mafia game was not really so standard, given that there were an inordinate number of action roles. F11 setting is very refined, and remember that through the presence/absence of a roleblocker, Mafia already know that this is one of two settings. It would help if town could now do the same.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
kingjames' post sounds like a kneejerk reaction due to the potentially losing the bandwagon. -_-
And I'm surprised people hasn't picked up on the scumminess of aidnai's suggestion that the town shouldn't discuss anything during the night. First he says it's sad that there's such lack of activity, then he encourages town to stay inactive? Discussion is the only weapon for townies with no information. Whether it is done during the night or during the day doesn't make any difference - this just looks like a subtle effort by a red to sabotage the town's efforts.
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The roleblocked claim is interesting.
Roleblock claim is legit: We are in setup 1 or 2, incog/sub are town.
Roleblock claim is fake: -Incog/Sub are mafia and didn't use roleblock (unlikely imo) -Incog/Sub are mafia and don't have roleblock (setup 3/4 guaranteed to have exactly 1 blue)
It seems like a fairly risky thing to do considering the circumstances. Might be a good idea to hypocop right now.
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United States22154 Posts
Ok, this is me being a noob and all that but what does hypocop mean?
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Everyone claims to be a cop and gives out a report, if/when the real cop dies town can then look at what the reports were. Its used in situations with a roleblocker or when theres no medic protection so that cop can't safely claim openly. The biggest disadvantage with it is that mafia can work out who the cop is quicker than normal by eliminating people who give wrong reports.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 06 2011 21:20 orgolove wrote: kingjames' post sounds like a kneejerk reaction due to the potentially losing the bandwagon. -_-
And I'm surprised people hasn't picked up on the scumminess of aidnai's suggestion that the town shouldn't discuss anything during the night. First he says it's sad that there's such lack of activity, then he encourages town to stay inactive? Discussion is the only weapon for townies with no information. Whether it is done during the night or during the day doesn't make any difference - this just looks like a subtle effort by a red to sabotage the town's efforts.
Does seem like an overreaction by kingjames based on faulty information about being roleblocked. I think we should at the very least wait for subversion to respond and analyze that post. Not sure about aidnai, since I agree with some of his points. Some discussion, such as what blues should do, should not be talked about at night, since that could help mafia.
I'm more worried about Ace (who has yet to respond to accusations/pressure from people) and his teammate Meapak (who has been MIA in mafia, when I have seen him active on IRC). I feel as if people have forgotten about this team which was previously brought up as a possible scum/lynch target.
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Ok So I was going to wait for Ace to PM me back but he hasn't and I'm about to go afk for the day (god damn school this'll probably be my last mafia game for a while).
Ok I actually agreee that subversion/incog could be lying mafia. Let's look at some posts.
On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? What is important about this qoute is the "Let's not check lurkers line" why is this important? Because Incog hasn't really posted at all. In fact this team has the least posts in the thread if I added right. But why should subversion be worried about dt checks if he has nothing to hide.
He then jumps on the bandwagon BC/Beneather bandwagon at a nice safe point when several others had already done so and disowns his previous comment in one fell swoop.
On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good. So he doesn't think the day one lynch is a good one but he votes for the person who is currently ahead in the votes? If he didn't like it then he should have offered a better candidate or at least not gone with the status quo. Also notice that he wilts as soon as LSB applied the tinniest amount of pressure (all LSB did was explain why threarening to lynch inactives is good) but subversion feels compelled to appologise, that's a pretty common scum tell right there.
No townie should be afraid of a dt check yet subversion opposes dt checking inactives when he is one. Also in such a small game it would probably be safer for the mafia to lurk. He claims to not like the day one vote but then goes and votes for the person currently ahead showing no interest in actually helping the town. Further more his whole I've been roleblocked /leave thread act set off alarm bells in my head and I agree with what KJ has been saying.
I'm going to vote when I get home in about 12 hours to give subversion a chance to refute what I've said but if nothing changes my vote will be on this team.
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@The Mango: I wasn't here for like 48 hours. I don't see what pressure there is for me to respond to. I've already explained my self in my last post and unless you guys have something new to throw at me I'll leave it at that. This goes for everyone, including the now dead LSB: Read my posts for what's there and stop trying to read for what you want to see.
Unfortunately bad/inexperienced players tend to have a biased habit of looking at posts and trying to force things that are said to be Scummy when that isn't what is going on.
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Wouldn't mind getting some people's opinions on doing a hypocop.
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I want to know why orgolove didn't vote the first day. I understand if this was a 30 person game and one person abstaining isn't THAT important but it's a 9 "person" game and one whole team not voting is HUGE.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
On January 07 2011 06:49 chaoser wrote: I want to know why orgolove didn't vote the first day. I understand if this was a 30 person game and one person abstaining isn't THAT important but it's a 9 "person" game and one whole team not voting is HUGE.
Right.
Did you not read my post immediately afterwards? It was still in the middle of the season, and I was unable to log on before the deadline to place my vote. Since then I've tried as well as anyone to contribute and make sense of this discussion, from which there really wasn't any.
Focusing on inactivity won't help the town, and I'm surprised you, of all people, are choosing to do that, especially without any response to deconduo's suggestion.
@deconduo: what exactly do you mean by hypocop?
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On January 06 2011 23:28 deconduo wrote: Everyone claims to be a cop and gives out a report, if/when the real cop dies town can then look at what the reports were. Its used in situations with a roleblocker or when theres no medic protection so that cop can't safely claim openly. The biggest disadvantage with it is that mafia can work out who the cop is quicker than normal by eliminating people who give wrong reports.
He means that. I don't know what I think about the plan. I feel like it'll create more confusion than it's worth and there might not even be a cop so we're just implementing a plan that goes nowhere and ends up flooding the thread with fake "reports" and people can get away with easy lying
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On January 06 2011 23:28 deconduo wrote: Everyone claims to be a cop and gives out a report, if/when the real cop dies town can then look at what the reports were. Its used in situations with a roleblocker or when theres no medic protection so that cop can't safely claim openly. The biggest disadvantage with it is that mafia can work out who the cop is quicker than normal by eliminating people who give wrong reports. I don't really see how that will be helpful to town.
Right now I am suspicious of subversion and aidnai. I will make an analysis on them later and decide my vote.
As for subversion's claim of being roleblocked, there is a possibility that he is lying, but he could also be telling the truth so it is a bit WIFOM.
My senior chaoser is rather inactive, and only pms me once in a while.
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Ooh chaoser, you're actually here :O
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Anyway. Lets get this going. ##Vote: Kingjames/aidinai
My reasons have already been posted.
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I learned today in no uncertain terms that I have better things to do with my time at work than forum games
I'm glad to see at least some conversation occurring.
@Nemesis: I am really looking forward to reading your analysis of me. As I have already mentioned a few times, I'm wary of you at the moment, and I hope my suspicions will be either allayed or confirmed by you posting something of substance. If you come to the conclusion that I'm town, I'd actually rather see an analysis on someone else though. I'm going to suggest a few people below.
@Deconduo: I understand that, if there is a cop, it would be nice for the cop to not have to worry about dying before passing on the info they have collected. However, I think we're better off going with your original suggestion of assuming no blue roles, and just scumhunting normally.
If there is a cop and the cop finds a red, I think it's worth just claiming at that point. There's only two mafia teams total afterall, if we get one we're halfway there. If the cop only finds greens, I don't think getting a green list is necessarily worth the trouble/risk of doing the hypocop. That's all my opinion anyway, I'd like to hear KJ on this too though.
BTW, I missed the same rule in the OP as KJ regarding claiming role block. I didn't realize that greens would also be notified. In any case, subversion's claim doesn't mean anything for now. If we have another claim tomorrow (different team), that will be much more interesting.
Here are my top lynch candidates.
Orgolove Every single post has been an apology for being busy, or a criticism of what the town is doing (or both). He even criticized me for wanting quiet at night when he himself refused to pressure vote or help town with activity. For what it's worth, his first post has a classic scumtell (I did the same thing in experimental mini mafia and RoL picked up on it) -- he sympathizes with town by pointing out a disadvantage given by the setup. Doesn't mean much on it's own, but it is strangely common for scum to do this exact thing. His 6 total posts for your reading pleasure: + Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote: I apologize for being busy.
So we're having a day 1 lynch without any starting information huh. An open setup with unknown roleblockers gives a disadvantage to the town, but as the saying goes, "a challenge means god's afraid of your progress"
All right, lets see. ...
Looking at the past two pages, there's nothing to analyze. There's only been two votes, and the only discussion has been whether to lynch inactives.
no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage.
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. On January 05 2011 23:02 orgolove wrote:I apologize - my schedule is really off right now. I promise I'll be here more often. Gmarshal (.5) Deconduo Aidnai Subversion Huh - wait a minute - town had nothing to go on. Why did you guys vote? On January 05 2011 23:02 orgolove wrote: I mean, what made you vote for Beneather? On January 06 2011 01:10 orgolove wrote: >>>> Vote for inactives strategy is... not beneficial at all for the town, to say the least. The reds can subtly direct to whoever they would know is not a red and yet inactive. :/ We as town have no information, and reds can use that to lynch a green. If we don't have any information, pressuring is fine.. but just hitting someone because they're inactive is not a good strategy at all. This is why I also like the mayor idea for the first day, as it gives a way for town to get useful info on day 1... On January 06 2011 21:20 orgolove wrote: kingjames' post sounds like a kneejerk reaction due to the potentially losing the bandwagon. -_-
And I'm surprised people hasn't picked up on the scumminess of aidnai's suggestion that the town shouldn't discuss anything during the night. First he says it's sad that there's such lack of activity, then he encourages town to stay inactive? Discussion is the only weapon for townies with no information. Whether it is done during the night or during the day doesn't make any difference - this just looks like a subtle effort by a red to sabotage the town's efforts. On January 07 2011 07:16 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 06:49 chaoser wrote: I want to know why orgolove didn't vote the first day. I understand if this was a 30 person game and one person abstaining isn't THAT important but it's a 9 "person" game and one whole team not voting is HUGE. Right. Did you not read my post immediately afterwards? It was still in the middle of the season, and I was unable to log on before the deadline to place my vote. Since then I've tried as well as anyone to contribute and make sense of this discussion, from which there really wasn't any. Focusing on inactivity won't help the town, and I'm surprised you, of all people, are choosing to do that, especially without any response to deconduo's suggestion. @deconduo: what exactly do you mean by hypocop? Major points: -Missed the day 1 vote! -He is continuously pointing out why this or that doesn't help town, without once attempting to actually help the town himself by doing the things he himself suggests. -Says "Discussion is the only weapon for townies with no information", has 6 total posts in the thread (since the first day post) -Criticizes me for discouraging discussion at night, when he discouraged it during day (says 'nothing to analyze' and 'not going to vote...').
Subversion As KJ and meapak have pointed out, this claim is an easy fake claim for mafia if they don't have a roleblocker. Coupled with his lackluster posts and afk-ness looks pretty bad imo. His posts (I tried to fix his quotes so it wouldn't mess up mine): + Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? On January 05 2011 09:00 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 01:22 LSB wrote:On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote:On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? Exactly. That's the plan. That way the mafia will forced to stay active where it is easier to find them. You can't analyze an inactive mafia. But you can analyze one that talks Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense. Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with: ##Vote Beneather/BC My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance. On January 05 2011 09:00 Subversion wrote: omg, somehow completely fucked something up in the above post, sorry for the random screwed up quotes =/
also need to bold my vote
##Vote Beneather/BC On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good. On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked
As for other teams that are being discussed, meapak/ace have given reasons for low activity. If the inactivity continues, we should look again a little closer, but I have not seen anything scummy yet. Gmarshal/mango looks about 90% green to me (although KJ disagrees lol). Something feels off about nemesis, but until he posts something substantial, I will wait to build my case.
Orgolove is top lynch target today. Subversion is not a bad target, but I would actually like to see if we get another roleblock claim (from someone else) tomorrow.
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On January 07 2011 01:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Ok So I was going to wait for Ace to PM me back but he hasn't and I'm about to go afk for the day (god damn school this'll probably be my last mafia game for a while). Ok I actually agreee that subversion/incog could be lying mafia. Let's look at some posts. Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote:On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? What is important about this qoute is the "Let's not check lurkers line" why is this important? Because Incog hasn't really posted at all. In fact this team has the least posts in the thread if I added right. But why should subversion be worried about dt checks if he has nothing to hide. He then jumps on the bandwagon BC/Beneather bandwagon at a nice safe point when several others had already done so and disowns his previous comment in one fell swoop. Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good. So he doesn't think the day one lynch is a good one but he votes for the person who is currently ahead in the votes? If he didn't like it then he should have offered a better candidate or at least not gone with the status quo. Also notice that he wilts as soon as LSB applied the tinniest amount of pressure (all LSB did was explain why threarening to lynch inactives is good) but subversion feels compelled to appologise, that's a pretty common scum tell right there. No townie should be afraid of a dt check yet subversion opposes dt checking inactives when he is one. Also in such a small game it would probably be safer for the mafia to lurk. He claims to not like the day one vote but then goes and votes for the person currently ahead showing no interest in actually helping the town. Further more his whole I've been roleblocked /leave thread act set off alarm bells in my head and I agree with what KJ has been saying. I'm going to vote when I get home in about 12 hours to give subversion a chance to refute what I've said but if nothing changes my vote will be on this team.
I feel like you missed my point about the inactives. I was not saying its a BAD idea to check inactives, I was saying isn't ANNOUNCING who you are checking a bad idea, as mafia who are inactive can simply make sure they post, and thus completely avoid being checked.
I "gave up" this point when LSB explained to me why it was in fact a good idea. I was never challenging the idea, I was simply wondering if its not actually a bad idea. When LSB explained it made perfect sense, so I apologised for what I assumed was actually a "noob" question.
You also seemed to have misinterpreted my lynch vote. I didn't think the vote for Beneather was a bad one, I thought in this case the day one vote in general was bad, because we had so little activity and a high chance of lynching a townie. With the small amount of information we did have, I felt Beneather was the best candidate, and I did justify my vote and I stand by my justification, whether you disagree with it or not.
I'm not responding to kingjames because his arguments are ridiculous. If you're going to make these reckless aggressive posts, you can at least make sure you understand the rules of the game first.
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That's all well and good subversion, but would you care to contribute thoughts on some of the other people in the game? Instead of lurking until the pressure is on and then defending yourself?
Please tell us what you think of my analysis of orgolove. Or if you prefer, analyze someone else that you think is scum.
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United States1966 Posts
since we've largely ignored this team, what does everyone think of Deconduo/Chezinu? I haven't seen anything from them except decundo trying to convince everyone to 'hypocop'. I don't get a scum tell from that necessarily, but they have been on the quiet side so far otherwise.
@aidnai: as for flamwheel/orgolove, I don't agree with your analysis aidnai. Orgolove's activity has been spotty in the other game I'm in as well, and I don't see any major deviations in posting (I also do not get a scum feel from him in that game either)
If I had to vote now, it would be between kingjames/aidnai (kingjames for his over the top response in trying to get subversion lynched, which was based off faulty data - aidnai for pushing for 0 discussion during night) and subversion/incognito (for obvious reasons, could be lying about being roleblocked).
I'd like to hear from incognito if possible, since he's been largely MIA this game.
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On January 07 2011 17:10 TheMango wrote: since we've largely ignored this team, what does everyone think of Deconduo/Chezinu? I haven't seen anything from them except decundo trying to convince everyone to 'hypocop'. I don't get a scum tell from that necessarily, but they have been on the quiet side so far otherwise.
@aidnai: as for flamwheel/orgolove, I don't agree with your analysis aidnai. Orgolove's activity has been spotty in the other game I'm in as well, and I don't see any major deviations in posting (I also do not get a scum feel from him in that game either)
If I had to vote now, it would be between kingjames/aidnai (kingjames for his over the top response in trying to get subversion lynched, which was based off faulty data - aidnai for pushing for 0 discussion during night) and subversion/incognito (for obvious reasons, could be lying about being roleblocked).
I'd like to hear from incognito if possible, since he's been largely MIA this game.
You know, at first read through of deconduo's posts I thought he was townie but reading through it I notice that aside from the suggestion of doing hypocop, he mostly pushed for discussion but barely did any himself, mostly just answering questions. I think the post that made me think he was townie was this one:
On January 06 2011 01:52 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 01:10 orgolove wrote: >>>> Vote for inactives strategy is... not beneficial at all for the town, to say the least. The reds can subtly direct to whoever they would know is not a red and yet inactive. :/ We as town have no information, and reds can use that to lynch a green. If we don't have any information, pressuring is fine.. but just hitting someone because they're inactive is not a good strategy at all. This is why I also like the mayor idea for the first day, as it gives a way for town to get useful info on day 1... It is beneficial in a number of ways: 1. It encourages activity. People don't want to be lynched, so they will (hopefully) start posting more. 2. It gets rid of inactive townies earlier on rather than later. Mafia have no incentive to kill an inactive townie, so they live until the end of the game if they aren't lynched. You then might need to pick a mafia out of a bunch of people with less that 3 posts each, not at all helpful to town. 3. If the mafia do push the lynch to a green rather than a mafia, we still get to look at the voting patterns and the posts. For example today, who voted for BC/Beneather over other inactives, and why? Were BC/Beneather the most inactive team?
but looking at it again it's pretty standard to say that stuff whether you mafia or not, there's not a lot of info in there.
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On January 07 2011 17:10 TheMango wrote: since we've largely ignored this team, what does everyone think of Deconduo/Chezinu? I haven't seen anything from them except decundo trying to convince everyone to 'hypocop'. I don't get a scum tell from that necessarily, but they have been on the quiet side so far otherwise.
@aidnai: as for flamwheel/orgolove, I don't agree with your analysis aidnai. Orgolove's activity has been spotty in the other game I'm in as well, and I don't see any major deviations in posting (I also do not get a scum feel from him in that game either)
If I had to vote now, it would be between kingjames/aidnai (kingjames for his over the top response in trying to get subversion lynched, which was based off faulty data - aidnai for pushing for 0 discussion during night) and subversion/incognito (for obvious reasons, could be lying about being roleblocked).
I'd like to hear from incognito if possible, since he's been largely MIA this game.
Chezinu isn't around at all, and hasn't responded to any of my PMs, so I'm on my own.
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Some more thoughts:
-If we hit a town today, it goes to Lylo. Kind of important to think about.
-If sub/incog is telling the truth the cop can safely claim during the night (if he exists.) We can verify this by lynching sub/incog. This might not be a great idea however, as I think they are town. It would be a pretty ballsy thing for mafia to fake.
For myself, the only person who's posting I don't really like is orgolove. Aidnai's post sums it up pretty well, but I want to add two things. Orgolove is against lynching inactives and being quieter at night. These I feel are both anti-town things. I already explained why lynching inactives is good in a previous post. As for posting at night, I feel (as do others) that it helps mafia narrow down the blue roles. Town has no lynch power at night, and we should do most of our discussion during the day time. (This doesn't matter really if we are in setup #2 however)
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So the idea is lynch Subversion, he flips blue, then IF we have a cop, we also have medic who will protect the cop. But, if the cop claims, he will be roleblocked from then on right? unless the cop has already found a red, I really doubt he'll find anything after claiming (rules allow same target consecutive nights). Again, if the cop already found a red, push a lynch, and if you can't get it, claim.
Also, remember to vote! I want orgo to see the votes stacking up so both he and his team have to respond.
@mango: you're being a little silly. Mafia don't want all the attention, they don't want to actually contribute, and it's hard for them to point fingers and mean it because they know everyone else is innocent. It should be pretty obvious that KJ/me are not mafia. I'm also not worried about deconduo at the moment, but I suppose that could change.
Meapak is due back soon I believe. Meapak -- I know you're looking at subversion, but could I convince you to vote orgo today so we can see if someone else gets roleblocked tomorrow? I think orgo is a better lynch in any case.
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Hello everyone. I still think that subversion is scummy however as someone pointed out it's almost lylo and it would really suck to lynch a blue at this point. BUT that being said his scummyieness outweighs his possible blueness in my eyes. The fact that he magically swooped in and posted when I called him out just feels red.
BUT I will vote for Orgo right now and see if we can spike some activity. Also I never found his "reasons" for voting you guys when he said "My reasons have already been posted" which looks rather bad on his part. If orgo is genuinely inactive and doesn't appear or if no one else is pushed forward as a lynch target I might unvote and try and provoke someone else but for now I'll
##Vote Orgolove/Flamewheel
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orgolove posted in the other game about an hour ago, so he's definitely around...
@mango again, talk to foolishness about deconduo, me, and orgolove. I am fairly confident that your team is town aligned, and foolishness should be a great resource to you/us.
Actually, everyone do your best to bounce thoughts off your senior. They're basically 'playing' this game as a helpful service to us, so show some appreciation and don't let it go to waste.
I feel like we haven't heard from nemesis in a long while, despite a promised analysis from him
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United States22154 Posts
The thing about Subversion is that I dont feel like he has posted enough for me to get a good read on him, which is why I think there is a possibility that he is a red (he could also just be a bored townie, they can be hard to tell apart sometimes).
We've decided against the hypocop idea, correct?
adanai, while you seem fine right now but i'd like an explanation of why you think we should avoid discussion during the night, thats as far as I know not really beneficial for the town. At this point you seem to be doing more good than bad, and to be honest when I tried to analyze your posts I got nothing definitive(it could be the fact that I'm not very good at it ) I'll take a look at KJ later and form an opinion based on that, for now adanai you are on my undecided list, right now you seem pro-town, but that could just be a clever camouflage.
in my mind we also need to pressure the Meapak_Ziphh/Ace team a little more, as I think they may well be scum (if nothing else Ace's whole "you should lynch people who aren't going to help you win" attitude is very disturbing)
For now the reasons given are compelling enough for me to vote Orgolove
##Vote Orgolove/Flamewheel
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^^GMarshal: I answered last time you asked dude
On January 06 2011 06:52 aidnai wrote: I mean we townies can't act on it. Except blues, but I'm all for leaving the blues to act on their own.
Giving out information during night 1 really hurt town in experimental mini mafia (I was scum that game). We had a medic claim, another blue claim, I forget what else, but me and my scumbuddies were laughing it up in our IRC as town shot themselves in one foot then the other. KJ might remember better.
The gist of my thought is: any info you give out at night can be used against town, and can't be used by town until morning. So wait until morning. Take this time to go over the thread with your partner or something.
However if anyone really wants to go on being vocal and jolly go right ahead, it certainly will give me more to analyze. Do you have a more specific question about my reasoning?
We have I think 7 hours left? Votes so far: orgolove/Flamewheel: 2.5 GMarshal (0.5) Meapak_Ziphh aidnai
aidnai/KingJames01: 1 orgolove
Subversion: 0
Meapak_Ziphh
Not yet voted: Nemesis, Subversion, Deconduo, TheMango (0.5)
As I have mentioned before, I'm really keen to see what nemesis and subversion will contribute today.
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United States22154 Posts
Sorry aidnai, now that you mention it I do remember reading your response, I guess thats what lack of sleep does to my reasoning processes.
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I did promise that I will do an analysis and here it is First is Incognito/Subversion team: Incognito/Subversion
On January 03 2011 19:21 Subversion wrote: lol, poor Korynne
He used to be so innocent First post is a useless post, commenting on the story
On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? Says that checking inactives is useless if publicly announced.
But later retracts his statement after being explained to him how it still benefits the town. Nothing really scummy here, but he might be trying to paint himself an image of a noob by asking stupid question.
On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good. He votes beneather/BC because beneather seems unwilling to say anything without his senior's guidance. Not really a good reason to vote but we didn't really have much to go on last day phase.
On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked He claims that he's been roleblocked. Nothing much to really go with here.
On January 07 2011 15:39 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 01:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Ok So I was going to wait for Ace to PM me back but he hasn't and I'm about to go afk for the day (god damn school this'll probably be my last mafia game for a while). Ok I actually agreee that subversion/incog could be lying mafia. Let's look at some posts. On January 04 2011 16:25 Subversion wrote:On January 04 2011 10:46 Nemesis wrote:Ok I just got here. Just to share my ideas with the current plans. On January 04 2011 00:51 deconduo wrote: Would a good idea be to work off the assumption we are in setup #2? Basically we assume that there are no blues, and if we do have a DT or medic its a bonus. That way we focus more on scumhunting rather than relying on a DT/medic to form a circle that might not be there at all. I wouldn't make any assumptions as to what setup we are going with. We should consider all the possible setups. But yes, we should focus more on scumhunting than relying on forming circles based on blue roles. On January 04 2011 00:37 LSB wrote:Well... Activity isn't going to magically create itself. So...
All right, in many games there was an uneventful first day. Lets not make this one of those games. A few things to talk about: - Should we lynch an inactive day one? Assuming of course, there is no good alternative
- Plans for the roles
Inactives:A big problem in every mafia game is inactivity. I don't want another drag_ being able to squeak by with barely any posts. We should immediately show it is not okay to be inactive. Inactive players hurt the town as they waste lynches down the road as the town will need to try to separate the mafia from the inactives. We should therefore push to lynch an inactive day one. This will force the assassins to discuss and not be able to turtle, increasing the chance they will slip up. The key is that we have to make sure the town knows it is not okay to just simply sit back and not do anything. This way, hopefully everyone will be active and we won't need to lynch an inactive. PlanFirstly. DO NOT CLAIM DO NOT CLAIM Good now that we got that out of the way, some other ideas. Generic Blue Activity planOne plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town. The DTs should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia. The Medics should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions. Although, I myself do not like inactives, our goal is to lynch mafia. So unless we can't come up with any good target to lynch by the end of the day, then I don't advocate the lynching of inactives, but lynching them might be a good idea if we have nothing else to go on. As for dts checking inactive people(if we do indeed have dts), I think that might be a lot better plan than lynching inactives as we would be wasting town's greatest weapon. Lynching inactives is basically the same as RNG, a random chance of lynching scum. The only good thing is it prevents inactivity and encourages acitivity. i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected? What is important about this qoute is the "Let's not check lurkers line" why is this important? Because Incog hasn't really posted at all. In fact this team has the least posts in the thread if I added right. But why should subversion be worried about dt checks if he has nothing to hide. He then jumps on the bandwagon BC/Beneather bandwagon at a nice safe point when several others had already done so and disowns his previous comment in one fell swoop. On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
That's pretty much the whole post, except I also just said thanks to LSB for clarifying the check inactives plan, and why its good. So he doesn't think the day one lynch is a good one but he votes for the person who is currently ahead in the votes? If he didn't like it then he should have offered a better candidate or at least not gone with the status quo. Also notice that he wilts as soon as LSB applied the tinniest amount of pressure (all LSB did was explain why threarening to lynch inactives is good) but subversion feels compelled to appologise, that's a pretty common scum tell right there. No townie should be afraid of a dt check yet subversion opposes dt checking inactives when he is one. Also in such a small game it would probably be safer for the mafia to lurk. He claims to not like the day one vote but then goes and votes for the person currently ahead showing no interest in actually helping the town. Further more his whole I've been roleblocked /leave thread act set off alarm bells in my head and I agree with what KJ has been saying. I'm going to vote when I get home in about 12 hours to give subversion a chance to refute what I've said but if nothing changes my vote will be on this team. I feel like you missed my point about the inactives. I was not saying its a BAD idea to check inactives, I was saying isn't ANNOUNCING who you are checking a bad idea, as mafia who are inactive can simply make sure they post, and thus completely avoid being checked. I "gave up" this point when LSB explained to me why it was in fact a good idea. I was never challenging the idea, I was simply wondering if its not actually a bad idea. When LSB explained it made perfect sense, so I apologised for what I assumed was actually a "noob" question. You also seemed to have misinterpreted my lynch vote. I didn't think the vote for Beneather was a bad one, I thought in this case the day one vote in general was bad, because we had so little activity and a high chance of lynching a townie. With the small amount of information we did have, I felt Beneather was the best candidate, and I did justify my vote and I stand by my justification, whether you disagree with it or not. I'm not responding to kingjames because his arguments are ridiculous. If you're going to make these reckless aggressive posts, you can at least make sure you understand the rules of the game first. Defends himself from aidnai/kingjames01's attacks
As for incognito, he hasn't posted at all since the game started.
Overall, his post are not really scummy, but he doesn't really contribute much in his post too. And he doesn't post much except to respond to people calling him out.
Now as for the other team I promised:
kingjames01/aidnai
Let's start with aidnai In his first few post, he begins clearing up rules. Nothing much to go on from there.
On January 04 2011 09:34 aidnai wrote:Well, I guess i'm not gonna wait around for my buddy to show up before I post anything. @Deconduo: ok, if any setup is equally likely, than I agree we should "assume" setup 2 -- no blues. It's never good to rely on blues too much anyway. LSB, I'm pretty sick of the day 1 let's lynch inactives campaign...but with almost no activity so far, we might have to. Maybe everyone is trying to coordinate with their partner before diving in head first? I know Kav and I have had internet availability issues at home as well, I might be stuck posting from work only for a bit Says that we should assume setup 2 so that we don't rely on blues too much. Kinds of support lynching inactives without really committing to it.
On January 05 2011 02:25 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 01:43 Ace wrote: You should just vote for whoever you think will not help you win the game. This is an interesting perspective. I'm used to hearing that killing bad townies is still killing townies. A lot of the skill in scumhunting is in differentiating scum/bad townie, afterall. Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote: ... I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. The idea is, use your vote to make something concrete happen. I hope we avoid lynching the most vocal/active players this game. Pressure inactives, if someone presents a good lynch great, but let's not kill someone who will be active for the rest of the game. I'll add some pressure for now. Vote: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness Comments on Ace's suggestion. And pressure votes Team 1.
After this, he has some one liners and then changes his vote to Beneather/BC
On January 05 2011 07:19 aidnai wrote: Is this the way it's gonna be? learning games so sad... I'll be very sad if we don't have any more bootcamps because of this (and salem). PYP3 is more active, and it hasn't even started yet lol.
I don't want Gmarshal to actually die. He's one of the only actives at this point. So I'll switch to beneather/BC for lack of anything better...
##unvote ##Vote Beneather/BC
sorry about the ## thing before RoL He says that he doesn't really want to kill Gmarshal after Gmarshal started getting ahead in votes and instead joins the Beneather/BC bandwagon after it starts gaining some grounds.
He makes a few post about telling his partner to come in. Then makes a bunch of useless one liner.
On January 05 2011 10:02 aidnai wrote: I agree with you ace. Wanna lynch Nemesis? He says that he agrees with ace and finds me scummy. But he still doesn't change his vote and instead waits for ace to change his vote. He says he finds me scummy, but doesn't really commit to lynching me.
On January 05 2011 10:15 aidnai wrote: Yeah, the last shitty analysis I saw from LSB was in HP mafia, directed at me. He was scum that time...but he wanted to get lynched as I recall, so...hmm.
Even though LSB is pulling at straws with that 'analysis', I don't want to lynch him. 1) he's so pro-town he sucks at being scum. 2) if we kill him activity will grind to a halt and the game will end with less than 20 pages. Again, he sucks up to Ace, saying how right he is, but still doesn't commit to it and makes excuses to not lynch LSB even though he thinks he is scum.
On January 05 2011 12:17 aidnai wrote: I hope this isn't too late
##Unvote Beneather/BC ##Vote GMarshal/Foolishness/whoever After realizing that BC/beneather team isn't really a good lynch target. He tries to save them by voting for someone else who has almost no chance of being lynched.
On January 06 2011 05:15 aidnai wrote: yes, nighttime is not town time. No reason to generate discussion or information that we can't act on yet. He then says that we shouldn't discuss during anything during nighttime. This is a really questionable statement. More discussion is always beneficial for town.
He votes orgolove/flamewheel and FOS subversion because of his claim to have been roleblocked which does not really imply anything eitherway unless we can verify/reject the claim.
Overall, he makes a lot of non-committal post and tries to suck up to ace.
kingjames01: Kingjames doesn't really post until around the end of the first day phase. His first post is an analysis on Team 1 and puts FoS on them.
Comments- GMarshal is the most active member of this team with 5 posts.
- The first indicates his support of lynching inactive teams.
- The second chooses the "most" inactive team and justifies why his own team is inactive. He tentatively points a finger at Ace for his "rather... interesting" post.
- The third post is an "oh, I forgot to vote before" post.
- The fourth post is an edit/clarification.
- The fifth post is another finger pointed at Ace for his lack of reaction towards Beneather/BC.
I think that we should apply a little more pressure to this team.
He says that he thinks beneater is not mafia and is about to be lynched. But instead of voting for the person with the next most votes, his team votes for someone who has not votes at all. But then again, kingjames is not the one who controls the vote.
On January 05 2011 12:41 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 12:06 LSB wrote: Kingjames. So are you fingering Subversion?
Well, day is over To be honest, I think Kavdragon is Red and, by association, you. He thinks kavdragon/LSB is red, but doesn't really say why unlike with his other FoS where he makes an analysis on them. Maybe, he's afraid that he's going to have to make stuff up to push for a kavdragon/LSB lynch?
He then goes over the top with Subversion's claim to have been roleblocked
On January 06 2011 15:31 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked Forgive me if I don't believe you. If you were roleblocked, why would you even admit to that? The Roleblocker wouldn't know that he had successfully found a Blue. You could have just stayed quiet and used your power tonight. My opinion is that you're actually Mafia and you're worried that you might get lynched today. I've pointed out that you've been suspicious and now you're panicking. He claims that subversion has claimed to be a blue to dodge a lynch today and seems to be panicking because he can't push for his lynch.
On January 06 2011 15:31 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked Forgive me if I don't believe you. If you were roleblocked, why would you even admit to that? The Roleblocker wouldn't know that he had successfully found a Blue. You could have just stayed quiet and used your power tonight. My opinion is that you're actually Mafia and you're worried that you might get lynched today. I've pointed out that you've been suspicious and now you're panicking. He tries even more to get subversion lynched based on his claim. After it has been pointed out that to be roleblocked, you don't necessarily have to be blue, he stops posting but his partner still seems to be trying to push suspicion onto Subversion based on the roleblock claim.
Overall, aidnai has made a lot of non-committal post and sucks up a lot to Ace. And he also makes a questionable post about not generating discussion during the night. kingjames01 on the other hand has made a few analysis, but there is still that over the top reaction to Subversion's claim.
RIght now, although I am a bit suspicious of Subversion, I am more suspicious of kingjames01/aidnai's team.
##Vote Team 6 Kingjames01/Aidnai
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Nemesis, two things concern me about your post. One, you left out some really important posts I made that are certainly not 'non-committal'. Two, you have no mention of orgolove, even though he's the top lynch candidate right now, he's the lynch I'm pushing, and he's the only other person that voted for me besides you. You say I "still seems to be trying to push suspicion onto Subversion based on the roleblock claim" which shows you read my analysis post of orgolove, so don't ignore it please.
However, I will not be deterred from the task at hand. Orgolove has posted again in the other game, so I know for a fact he's read my analysis and knows the votes are mounting over here. I'm having a hard time imagining a pro-town reason for not contributing to discussion in this thread, and not defending yourself from a lynch...
4 hours left? Votes so far: orgolove/Flamewheel: 2.5 GMarshal (0.5) Meapak_Ziphh aidnai
aidnai/KingJames01: 2 orgolove Nemesis
Subversion: 0
Meapak_Ziphh
Not yet voted: Subversion, Deconduo, TheMango (0.5)
I'm counting on you deconduo. TheMango, you heard anything from foolishness yet?
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
On January 08 2011 08:06 aidnai wrote: However, I will not be deterred from the task at hand. Orgolove has posted again in the other game, so I know for a fact he's read my analysis and knows the votes are mounting over here. I'm having a hard time imagining a pro-town reason for not contributing to discussion in this thread, and not defending yourself from a lynch...
Oh really? Do I need to respond to every single post against me? What is this now - I can't even log on TL without being harassed about responding in a forum game? Nice.
I've already made my point, and in clear enough language for the town to understand. I'm hoping that flamewheel will come by and consider it as well. It'll be the town's loss if they can't see such clear inconsistencies throughout your post and yet still not vote.
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I'm reading the analyses. My problem is that I think both orgolove and kingjames are scummy (flamewheel hasn't posted enough and aidnai's posts seem legit to me), but its pretty obvious that at least one of them isn't maf.
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United States22154 Posts
On January 08 2011 08:22 deconduo wrote: I'm reading the analyses. My problem is that I think both orgolove and kingjames are scummy (flamewheel hasn't posted enough and aidnai's posts seem legit to me), but its pretty obvious that at least one of them isn't maf.
I certainly agree that orgolove feels pretty scumy, my worry is that if the kingjames/aidnai team is mafia then they are doing a very good job of hiding it and leading the lynches, which means if we dont hit a mafia tonight, I'll be almost certain that they are and need to be hung. Right now I'm in the most serious of doubts. For now I think I'll keep my vote as it is, its a vote of confidence that kingjames and aidnai are not infact scum and that orgolove is. If they are wrong though then they better have a really persuasive candidate.
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On January 08 2011 08:06 aidnai wrote: Nemesis, two things concern me about your post. One, you left out some really important posts I made that are certainly not 'non-committal'. Two, you have no mention of orgolove, even though he's the top lynch candidate right now, he's the lynch I'm pushing, and he's the only other person that voted for me besides you. You say I "still seems to be trying to push suspicion onto Subversion based on the roleblock claim" which shows you read my analysis post of orgolove, so don't ignore it please.
However, I will not be deterred from the task at hand. Orgolove has posted again in the other game, so I know for a fact he's read my analysis and knows the votes are mounting over here. I'm having a hard time imagining a pro-town reason for not contributing to discussion in this thread, and not defending yourself from a lynch...
4 hours left? Votes so far: orgolove/Flamewheel: 2.5 GMarshal (0.5) Meapak_Ziphh aidnai
aidnai/KingJames01: 2 orgolove Nemesis
Subversion: 0
Meapak_Ziphh
Not yet voted: Subversion, Deconduo, TheMango (0.5)
I'm counting on you deconduo. TheMango, you heard anything from foolishness yet? Well as to what I think about orgolove. Although, he has not really been helpful, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's scum.
Really, your only reason for voting him is because of being apologetic and how he's pointing out that town is at a disadvantage in the setup. I hardly find those strong reasons to lynch someone.
Also, there was no resistance at all when the bandwagon formed around him until my post which I find disconcerting.
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KJ made a mistake about the rules, that's all. I had the same wrong assumption as KJ actually (that subversion was claiming blue), until flamewheel pointed out that he could be green and still know he was blocked. I wish KJ would come back and post some more, both to clear us a little and because I want his take on a few players, but I know he's pretty busy...
Look at the rest of his posts too. When everyone was saying "not enough to analyze" or talking about lynching inactives, KJ was one of the first to post an analysis (of GM/Foolishness/mango). He also did his best (along with me) to avoid Beneather's lynch. No reason to do that as a scum...just afk ftw in that situation (I mean, beneather gave us all of five minutes to respond to his pre-death post).
Anyway, a defense coming from me won't mean much, so I'll leave it to you to figure out.
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United States1966 Posts
##Vote: Kingjames/aidinai
As stated in my previous post, I am pretty sure orgolove/flamewheel is not scum, so I'm voting for Kingjames/aidinai. Me and GMarshall are of differing opinions this time it seems. I have not been able to talk to Foolishness yet, but hopefully he will show up before the vote deadline is over. What happens if the votes are tied?
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United States1966 Posts
so deconduo and Subversion have yet to vote, and votes are tied at 2.5 for both Kingjames/aidinai and orgolove/Flamewheel
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##Vote Orgolove/Flamewheel
I feel orgolove is the scummier of the two, I hope I'm not wrong.
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## Vote Team 7
My partner has a pretty good read on this team so I'm going with this vote. When he comes back you can ask him to explain it for you.
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Yeah Ace and I are switching. I've decided to go back to my original analysis since voting orgolove hasn't really provoked any noticable response from him or his partner. I'm still undecided on KJ/Aidnai but an orgolove or a subversion lynch will be about the same in value in determining KJ/Aidnai's towness because both were called out by them.
##Unvote Orgolove/Flamewheel ##Vote Subversion/Incognito
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Meapak, you leave the votes tied. If/when subversion comes along and votes, where do you imagine his vote will go?
From my perspective, the two scum are between orgolove, nemesis, and subversion. We have imo a stronger case against orgolove than anyone else. If we wait on subversion and we get another roleblock claim, we either have both mafia caught lying or subversion is telling the truth.
I understand that I'm being scrutinized because I'm attracting attention. It happens to every town leader. But please, remember mafia don't want attention. They want to blend in...
Meapak, there's only two hours left, and it would be pretty miraculous if you were actually able to swing the vote to subversion. If you're gonna insist on voting for him instead of playing along with me, will you at least provide the pretty good read (on subversion) Ace told us about?
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Ace is actually a little behind the times, my "lead" was pretty much what I posted in the thread that most people ignored. I will go back to Orgo. I thought there was more time for the day but at this point my argument isn't going to catch and I don't want to risk someone I don't consider scummy being lynched. They'd better be red Aidnai.
##Unvote ##Vote orgolove/flamewheel
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
I'll help Meapak along in that since orgolove isn't around, and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to really lay it out, but take a look at Subversion's day 1 voting post. Take a look at his reasoning for the vote, and ask yourself if it makes sense.
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On January 08 2011 10:48 flamewheel wrote: I'll help Meapak along in that since orgolove isn't around, and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to really lay it out, but take a look at Subversion's day 1 voting post. Take a look at his reasoning for the vote, and ask yourself if it makes sense. Would you mind to elaborate on this?
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uh closing day. gimme a few minutes. Sorry about that, I thought Annul was supposed to count up votes because I had work.
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Hmm... subversion never even voted? I'll give you a hint RoL, we lynched orgolove/flamewheel. I'm stuck hitting f5 until I find out if we got scum or not, so...wanna just flip him and skip the flavor text?
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Team 6: KingJames01/Aidnai - 2.5 Orgolove Nemesis TheMango
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 3.5 Aidnai
Meapak_Ziphh GMarshal deconduo Meapak_Ziphh
Team 7: Subversion/Incognito - 0
Meapak_ziphh
______________ Day over, team 9 to be lynched.
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On January 08 2011 12:52 aidnai wrote: Hmm... subversion never even voted? I'll give you a hint RoL, we lynched orgolove/flamewheel. I'm stuck hitting f5 until I find out if we got scum or not, so...wanna just flip him and skip the flavor text? I am fine with that.
Night 2
Team 9: Orgolove/flamewheel have been lynched.
___________ Please send in night actions. Day ends 10pm EST/12:00 KST tomorrow.
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On January 08 2011 13:04 aidnai wrote: FML Ya'll in big trouble now boiiiiiii. It's lylo tomorrow (baring a medic save) so we had better make some headway tonight. I'm still all for lynching Subversion, even more so now.
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Ok, so, there's a 50/50 chance that we have a DT in our setup. If we have one PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE check me, and help me out tomorrow.
I don't think I'll be killed tonight, since i'll be a lynch target tomorrow anyway. Remember, being wrong doesn't make me scum, and nothing I've done makes sense for scum.
Orgo let us down. I guess he didn't care about town winning this game, as I see it, he did have a responsibility to show up and DO SOMETHING to show he was town.
I guess meapak's concern about no one showing up to defend orgo was a good intuition. But on the flip side, when RoL accused me in Experimental mini, my mafia buddies completely ignored it. Even when it picked up steam, they did nothing. I only avoided the lynch because RoL was replaced and pandain (a townie) decided to defend me.
I'm going to halt town leadership activities for now. Someone else please step up, I don't even want to nominate someone. I think there's a good chance we have a DT, if I get checked i'll be clear in the morning.
Mafia still have a quandry on their hands with the roleblock thing. If they roleblocked subversion, they cannot use their roleblock on anyone else without proving subversion's innocence. If subversion is mafia, they don't have a roleblock anyway to stop a DT from checking me. So I'm hopeful...
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
gg.
On January 08 2011 13:26 aidnai wrote: Orgo let us down. I guess he didn't care about town winning this game, as I see it, he did have a responsibility to show up and DO SOMETHING to show he was town.
Don't blame your ineptitude on my actions. I've posted enough to show what I thought, and my interpretations of the events. It is on you for not heeding my words.
And it's poor form to shittalk on someone who technically won't be able to respond to anything, as per the rules.
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Orgolove you walked in here and said "I have more important things in life than to play stupid internet games so don't vote for me I've made my case" when you really hadn't. I wouldn't blame this lynch on the town I'd blame it on a player who gave up. While it may be poor form to talk to you when you can't respond, you did come in here and call the town inept because you got lynched so I feel compelled to point out that it really wasn't the towns fault.
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Get night actions in please
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I'm doing the f5 thing again lol... anyone else around or care at all?
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I was waiting for day post
I'm still trying to redecide which one among you(subversion or aidnai) should I lynch.
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United States22154 Posts
well, it looks like I didn't miss much while my power was out. I am waiting for the day post with some anticipation as well
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Sorry. Day post incoming.
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Day 3
It was late into the foggy night as Deconduo and Chezinu were on there way back from the weekly Brown Alliance meeting when Chezinu finally broke the silence between the. "You feel it too, don't you?" Chezinu whispered to Deconduo who had been gazing blankly into the darkness just a bit too long. As Deconduo looked back to his partner, it was clear how overcome he was by the presence that had been following them all night. "Don't be afraid, we will approach our fate with our heads held high." Chezinu said with a reassuring look. Deconduo looked up and forced himself to smile, just as the two figures began to take shape through the endless fog.
A few seconds later Chezinu and Deconduo found themselves standing face to face with what had been following them. "I don't sense any fear in these two." the figure said to his partner in a curious tone. "We will have to do something about that then, won't we?" the hooded man laughed back to his cohort.
As the hooded man began to reach for his weapon, Chezinu lunged at him knocking him to the ground. This surprised the hooded man as he didn't usually get much resistance from his victims. "Help, Damnit!" he shouted to his partner who was still a tad surprised by Chezinu's aggression. Deconduo mustered up his strength and ran at the tall man. Just as Deconduo was about to make contact the man quickly side stepped Deconduo and used his own momentum against him by redirecting him into a fire hydrant, rendering Deconduo unconscious.
Chezinu got distracted by his partner's folly and accidentally gave the upper hand to his adversary. The hooded man called for his partner "I have him held down. FINISH HIM!" Chezinu lay helplessly pinned down as the tall man removed his blade and slowly walked towards them. Chezinu knew the end was coming but took solace knowing he at least put up a fight as the knife pierced his chest Chezinu a faint scream as his eyes grew wide, and then blinked shut for what would be the last time.
As the two men stood back up, they felt a little surprised at the effort this kill took. As they surveyed the scene they noticed Deconduo beginning to stir again. The hooded man glared at his partner as he walked over to Deconduo and began to step on his throat. Deconduo began to struggle at the man's leg, but eventually the hooded man heard that ever distinctive crunching noise as Deconduo's body went limp.
Team 4: Chezinu/Deconduo had died. _____________
Sorry about such a delayed day post. I slept till around 2 then had to pick my sister up from a party o_O I will extend the day to 11:59pm EST on Monday. 45 hours remain in the day
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goodbye deconduo.
I was thinking/hoping that deconduo was the DT. I really like the way he played this game, he definitely drew a blue snipe attempt in my opinion. I am extremely surprised to see him flip green.
Do we have a DT? did I get checked?
I think I understand what flamewheel was talking about here
On January 08 2011 10:48 flamewheel wrote: I'll help Meapak along in that since orgolove isn't around, and probably won't be for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to really lay it out, but take a look at Subversion's day 1 voting post. Take a look at his reasoning for the vote, and ask yourself if it makes sense. For reference, here's subversion's reasoning:
On January 05 2011 09:44 Subversion wrote: ... ##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance. ...
Does this reasoning make sense? It does, right? but why did Subversion come up with this reason? Is it possible that he was experiencing that same feeling himself? My idea is that Subversion was posting what was on his mind, just applying it to Beneather/BC instead of himself. Any other thoughts on this?
Thanks for the day extension RoL
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GG good luck. Thanks for the complement aidnai, that was exactly the way I was trying to play it I was even considering fake claiming DT to draw a hit tonight, but I'm glad I didn't need to.
Hope you guys can win this <3
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Confirmed innocent teams:
LSB/Kavdragon Beneather/Bloody_C0bbler Meapak_Ziphh/Ace Flamewheel/Orgolove Chezinu/Deconduo
Currently we're in LYLO and 2 of these 4 teams are Scum:
TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness KingJames01/Aidnai Incognito/Subversion Chaoser/Nemesis
One thing I'm going to assume is that we do not have a Detective. I find it very hard to believe that at this point a Detective is still alive and still has no idea who is Scum. If anything they would have role claimed by now and told us who is confirmed innocent via DT check.
We're in one of these 2 setups:
1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Town 2 Mafia Goon, 1 Medic, 6 Town.
Now let's get to the heart of the matter.
On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked
My partner already had suspicions on Subversion before but this might be the icing on the cake. For this claim to be true, there has to be no medic in the game. If you are a medic you have to roleclaim right now. If no one role claims medic then we can decide on leaving Subversion alone for now since his claim is pretty much impossible to figure out. There could be a medic hiding but at this point that would be bad Town play. So let's just assume for now that Subversion is telling the truth.
That leaves 2 of these 3 teams as Scum:
TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness KingJames01/Aidnai Chaoser/Nemesis
As of now I'm going to say that KingJames01/Aidnai should be our top priority to lynch. Mainly because of this post right after subversion claimed:
On January 06 2011 15:31 kingjames01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 14:39 Subversion wrote: Morning everyone.
Since mafia already knows, I've been roleblocked Forgive me if I don't believe you. If you were roleblocked, why would you even admit to that? The Roleblocker wouldn't know that he had successfully found a Blue. You could have just stayed quiet and used your power tonight. My opinion is that you're actually Mafia and you're worried that you might get lynched today. I've pointed out that you've been suspicious and now you're panicking.
Scum would definitely like to keep the town in the dark about which setup we are in. If they have a roleblocker then they automatically know 2 of the 4 setups - we don't. But the kicker here is that bold part. If you are so sure why didn't you push for his lynch? Where is you vote?
Secondly the Day 1 vote:
Team 3: Beneather/BloodyC0bbler - 3.5 Gmarshal (.5) Deconduo Aidnai Subversion
The Day 2 vote:
Team 9: Flamewheel/Orgolove - 3.5 Aidnai Meapak_Ziphh GMarshal deconduo
Aidnai was on the lynch wagon for 2 confirmed innocents. Sure you could say you did it to save yourself but based on your post right after the lynch went down:
On January 08 2011 13:04 aidnai wrote: FML
You seemed to be a little upset here that a Towny died. Even though you had to save yourself in this instance so why would you be upset? I'm going to say a genuine townie reaction would have been something a long the lines of "shit, we had 2 innocent wagons going this entire time!".
So really this comes down to a claim. If there is no claim we have no choice but to look past Subversion for now. The only thing that imo delays aidnai/KJ's case is that GMarshal was also on both wagons. Which might actually point out that both teams are Scum. So for now, now that I know I can actually vote:
## vote Team 6
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Ok, I think it's time to finally roleclaim since it's LYLO. I am Detective Here are my scans so far: Meapak_Ziphh/Ace Subversion/Incognito
##Vote Team 7 Subversion/Incognito
This is why I was waiting for day post, I was waiting for the results of my check to come out.
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oh cool. Things just got interesting.
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Ace, why haven't you analyzed my posts? you're main case against me is
1- KJ didn't push subversion hard enough (he's been afk/inactive) 2- Aidnai was on the wagon for two innocents (so was gmarshal AND deconduo)
You took a lot of time and effort to make a nice big post to convince everyone to lynch me, but it's like you didn't read my posts or make any attempt to do behavioural analysis.
The only reason your team has escaped scrutiny so far is because you both gave reasons for being inactive. But I'm rethinking this right now.
I'm currently considering Meapak/Nemesis scum team. Something I need to think through is why would they risk fakeclaiming... well, if subversion was telling the truth all along, then we are almost certainly in setup 2. I've asked a DT to check/claim, Ace asked for either the medic or DT to claim, it's been day for a while now and no one has claimed, so more than likely there are no blues -> safe to fake claim. Subversion is an easy target, probably won't even show up to defend himself.
Going back and re-reading now, if anyone chimes in while i'm re-reading, that'd be nice.
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I don't do giant post analysis. No need for it.
Deonduo is dead and I already mentioned Gmarshal. KJ may be inactive or whatever but he still didn't vote or try to convince anyone to vote for Subversion. If he's so sure of it then why wouldn't he vote?
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you still haven't figured out that senior members don't have a vote? lol
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I thought I saw RoL post everyone has a vote now.
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damn, that was for the Day extension poll. Sigh :/
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On January 10 2011 04:10 aidnai wrote: Ace, why haven't you analyzed my posts? you're main case against me is
1- KJ didn't push subversion hard enough (he's been afk/inactive) 2- Aidnai was on the wagon for two innocents (so was gmarshal AND deconduo)
You took a lot of time and effort to make a nice big post to convince everyone to lynch me, but it's like you didn't read my posts or make any attempt to do behavioural analysis.
The only reason your team has escaped scrutiny so far is because you both gave reasons for being inactive. But I'm rethinking this right now.
I'm currently considering Meapak/Nemesis scum team. Something I need to think through is why would they risk fakeclaiming... well, if subversion was telling the truth all along, then we are almost certainly in setup 2. I've asked a DT to check/claim, Ace asked for either the medic or DT to claim, it's been day for a while now and no one has claimed, so more than likely there are no blues -> safe to fake claim. Subversion is an easy target, probably won't even show up to defend himself.
Going back and re-reading now, if anyone chimes in while i'm re-reading, that'd be nice. aidnai, if it is setup 2, then where is the new roleblock now?
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If mafia are confident enough that we have setup 2 to fake roleclaim, there's no need to roleblock anyone. That's frighteningly obvious I thought....
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On January 10 2011 04:59 aidnai wrote: If mafia are confident enough that we have setup 2 to fake roleclaim, there's no need to roleblock anyone. That's frighteningly obvious I thought.... If mafia does indeed have a roleblocker, they wouldn't have known it was setup 2 until after their supposed blue snipe on deconduo.
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The only 100% confirmed townies are the dead ones. 1. LSB/Kavdragon - Killed Night 1 3. Beneather/Bloody_C0bbler - Lynched Day 1 4. Deconduo/Chezinu - Killed Night 2 9. Flamewheel/Orgolove - Lynched Day 2
leaving 2. TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness 5. Meapak_Ziphh/Ace 6. KingJames01/Aidnai 7. Incognito/Subversion 8. Chaoser/Nemesis
Based on my prior analysis of team 2, I am convinced that they are green. I know that I'm green, and I think it should be possible to come to this conclusion by analyzing my behavior as well.
That leaves 2 scum out of 5. Meapak_Ziphh/Ace 7. Incognito/Subversion 8. Chaoser/Nemesis
There are only two options here. 1) Nemesis is telling the truth. -Nemesis/meapak are clear, subversion is scum. -subversion fake claimed the roleblock, there is no roleblocker -We are in setup 4: 2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town -Either aidnai/KJ or Gmarshal/foolishness/mango are the remaining scum team.
Problems: -Assuming Nemesis is really a DT, why not pick orgolove night one? why not pick me night two? -I don't believe Gmarshal et al are scum. -Doesn't explain Subversion's complete lack of interest in the game.
or 2) Nemesis is lying -Scum team is pushing an easy lynch to finish us off -Subversion is an apathetic townie, he told the truth about his roleblock claim -With no blues claiming and a mafia roleblocker, we are in setup 2 -The remaining scum team is between aidnai/meapak/mango-gmarshal -most likely remaining scum is meapak (since nemesis tried to clear them, and other teams are likely greens)
Problems: -why would scum do something so bold when they were doing just fine without a fakeclaim? It's almost certain one of subversion/aidnai would have been lynched today anyway.
For me right now, it comes down to Gmarshal being town. That right there proves to me that nemesis is lying. Of course, I need to convince Gmarshal/mango and subversion that I am town as well. Have you been able to talk to foolishness yet? I feel weird tooting my own horn, but if I have to, I will go back and analyze myself to show I can't be mafia.
A HUGE issue for town right now is subversion being afk. If he doesn't show up and he is town, then the only way we get a town lynch done today is if we get our votes on a scum before they get their votes on us. Therefore, Gmarshal/Mango, I'm urging you to vote nemesis immediately, even if you aren't 100% convinced by what I say at the moment. If subversion really is scum, then town will be able to get a majority vote whether or not he shows up. If subversion is innocent, then it is imperative that we get our lynch votes ASAP.
##Vote Nemesis/Chaoser
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On January 10 2011 05:12 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 04:59 aidnai wrote: If mafia are confident enough that we have setup 2 to fake roleclaim, there's no need to roleblock anyone. That's frighteningly obvious I thought.... If mafia does indeed have a roleblocker, they wouldn't have known it was setup 2 until after their supposed blue snipe on deconduo.
Even so, the only person they could have roleblocked would be subversion, who is not around to tell us about it. If they roleblocked anyone else, subversion would be somewhat cleared.
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United States1966 Posts
I'm really torn on this one, I am still suspicious of aidnai/kingjames, but I agree mostly with your analysis above. We have to be very careful about who we vote though, since if we mess up, its game over. From my point of view:
Incognito/Subversion (fake roleblock claim?) or Chaoser/Nemesis (fake DT claim?) are mafia.
which leaves one more mafia among: KingJames01/Aidnai or Meapak_Ziphh/Ace.
There is no 100% auto lynch candidate for me as of now, so I'm going to do some more indepth analysis later today before voting. I will say this though, the DT claim now from Nemesis to point out subversion as mafia seems a lot more convenient/suspicious, than a fake roleblock claim from Subversion that early into the game. I dont think I can pick between KJ/aidnai or meapak/ace and be sure at this point, so I'll probably focus on picking from the 'fake claim' pairs.
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I died...
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either way mango, I need you to vote nemesis right now. I'll post this again it's too important to be missed.
A HUGE issue for town right now is subversion being afk. If he doesn't show up and he is town, then the only way we get a town lynch done today is if we get our votes on a scum before they get their votes on us. Therefore, Gmarshal/Mango, I'm urging you to vote nemesis immediately, even if you aren't 100% convinced by what I say at the moment. If subversion really is scum, then town will be able to get a majority vote whether or not he shows up. If subversion is innocent, then it is imperative that we get our lynch votes ASAP.
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United States1966 Posts
I see, because if it's tied, it's whoever got their vote in first?
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There is no need for mafia to fakeclaim at this point in the game. I could have easily pushed for your lynch and it would have been game over.
Why didn't I scan orgolove night 1? Because I wasn't really suspicious of orgolove. Chaoser just told me to put pressure on orgolove.
Night 2, why did I scan subversion instead of you? Well day 2, as I have said previously, I was torn between voting subversion and you. I know that one of you is mafia, but I wasn't sure which one. Although, I voted you that day phase, I decided to check subversion as you seem to be going for his throat. Since you seem to be on opposite sides, If I check one of you, I thought it would be the same as checking both of you.
Think long and hard on this one as this is LYLO and another mistake would mean game over for town.
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See the problem here is that not only is subversion pretty much inactive but no one else has reported being role blocked. While Nemesis may be a fake DT claim I don't think so. For one I still think aidnai isn't Town oriented. Here aidnai, here's a post of yours I was just looking at here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7488394
Specifically this:
think Nemesis' vote was fishy to say the least, and even though I don't trust LSB or Ace per se, I don't think they are scum either.
I mean really. You don't even have a solid stance + the fact you appeared on both innocent wagons. I mean seriously how many times do I have to look back at your posts and see "I have a really bad feeling". You haven't exactly been committed to anything this game.But for now we'll ignore you. I think we have to roll with Nemesis here.
1.) No one else has been reportedly role blocked 2.) If Nemesis is faking a DT claim that's a sick play because of this:
On January 07 2011 08:13 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 23:28 deconduo wrote: Everyone claims to be a cop and gives out a report, if/when the real cop dies town can then look at what the reports were. Its used in situations with a roleblocker or when theres no medic protection so that cop can't safely claim openly. The biggest disadvantage with it is that mafia can work out who the cop is quicker than normal by eliminating people who give wrong reports. I don't really see how that will be helpful to town. Right now I am suspicious of subversion and aidnai. I will make an analysis on them later and decide my vote. As for subversion's claim of being roleblocked, there is a possibility that he is lying, but he could also be telling the truth so it is a bit WIFOM. My senior chaoser is rather inactive, and only pms me once in a while.
Nemesis did say he was suspicious of Subversion. If he's a real Detective then his Night Check would make sense since it follows up with him claiming he's suspect of Subversion right here. So with this in mind and no other role block claims I think it's best we lynch Subversion.
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On January 10 2011 05:48 TheMango wrote: I see, because if it's tied, it's whoever got their vote in first?
That's correct Mango. I hope to god gmarshal shows up like right now because ace/nemesis are both here and about to vote for subversion...
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United States1966 Posts
##Vote Nemesis/Chaoser
voting now in case it comes down to a tie, but this is not a 100% confirmed vote for me, I may switch before the day is up.
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United States1966 Posts
I'll see if I can get in touch with gmarshall
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Mango take your vote off of Nemesis. It's majority lynch and you could end up costing us the game. If you think you may switch later take your vote off now. If you aren't sure DONT VOTE.
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On January 10 2011 05:49 Ace wrote:See the problem here is that not only is subversion pretty much inactive but no one else has reported being role blocked. While Nemesis may be a fake DT claim I don't think so. For one I still think aidnai isn't Town oriented. Here aidnai, here's a post of yours I was just looking at here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7488394Specifically this: Show nested quote + think Nemesis' vote was fishy to say the least, and even though I don't trust LSB or Ace per se, I don't think they are scum either.
I mean really. You don't even have a solid stance + the fact you appeared on both innocent wagons. I mean seriously how many times do I have to look back at your posts and see "I have a really bad feeling". You haven't exactly been committed to anything this game.But for now we'll ignore you. I think we have to roll with Nemesis here. 1.) No one else has been reportedly role blocked 2.) If Nemesis is faking a DT claim that's a sick play because of this: Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:13 Nemesis wrote:On January 06 2011 23:28 deconduo wrote: Everyone claims to be a cop and gives out a report, if/when the real cop dies town can then look at what the reports were. Its used in situations with a roleblocker or when theres no medic protection so that cop can't safely claim openly. The biggest disadvantage with it is that mafia can work out who the cop is quicker than normal by eliminating people who give wrong reports. I don't really see how that will be helpful to town. Right now I am suspicious of subversion and aidnai. I will make an analysis on them later and decide my vote. As for subversion's claim of being roleblocked, there is a possibility that he is lying, but he could also be telling the truth so it is a bit WIFOM. My senior chaoser is rather inactive, and only pms me once in a while. Nemesis did say he was suspicious of Subversion. If he's a real Detective then his Night Check would make sense since it follows up with him claiming he's suspect of Subversion right here. So with this in mind and no other role block claims I think it's best we lynch Subversion.
Your analysis of me is laughable Ace. I'm the most outstanding figure in this game, I am pretty much singlehandedly responsible for orgolove's lynch, yet you say I never really take a stand?
Here's a stand for you: Nemesis dies today, you die tomorrow.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 10 2011 05:55 Ace wrote: Mango take your vote off of Nemesis. It's majority lynch and you could end up costing us the game. If you think you may switch later take your vote off now. If you aren't sure DONT VOTE.
what? I dont understand, as long as I switch before day is over, should I change my mind, its still safe right?
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On January 10 2011 05:55 Ace wrote: Mango take your vote off of Nemesis. It's majority lynch and you could end up costing us the game. If you think you may switch later take your vote off now. If you aren't sure DONT VOTE.
Rofl ace, just switch your vote to subversion already and be done with it. Unless you're scared to be that obvious in case subversion really does show up?
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Mango, yes, leave your vote until you have made up your mind. The votes aren't counted until day ends.
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I can't vote remember?
So if you are claiming you were responsible for Orgo's lynch, and appeared on another innocent lynch wagon then why should I believe you? I just quoted a post of yours where you said you don't really think myself or LSB are scum but don't exactly trust us. You say Nemesis is fishy but you didn't vote for him. That's wishy washy.
If you believe you are the most outstanding figure in this game and we haven't caught any mafia then yea, I think it's safe to say I don't mind lynching you. If you can present a scenario where Subversion is telling the truth about being role blocked and Nemesis must be a fake DT then show it.
@Mango: If your vote is there and someone else comes in and quickvotes then it's an instant lynch.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 10 2011 06:04 Ace wrote: I can't vote remember?
So if you are claiming you were responsible for Orgo's lynch, and appeared on another innocent lynch wagon then why should I believe you? I just quoted a post of yours where you said you don't really think myself or LSB are scum but don't exactly trust us. You say Nemesis is fishy but you didn't vote for him. That's wishy washy.
If you believe you are the most outstanding figure in this game and we haven't caught any mafia then yea, I think it's safe to say I don't mind lynching you. If you can present a scenario where Subversion is telling the truth about being role blocked and Nemesis must be a fake DT then show it.
@Mango: If your vote is there and someone else comes in and quickvotes then it's an instant lynch.
Moderators, can you please confirm? I thought votes didn't count until day was over? Ace's explanation doesn't make sense to me...
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This game is following Majority Lynch rules isn't it? If not then you can ignore what I said.
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On January 10 2011 06:04 Ace wrote: I can't vote remember?
So if you are claiming you were responsible for Orgo's lynch, and appeared on another innocent lynch wagon then why should I believe you? I just quoted a post of yours where you said you don't really think myself or LSB are scum but don't exactly trust us. You say Nemesis is fishy but you didn't vote for him. That's wishy washy.
If you believe you are the most outstanding figure in this game and we haven't caught any mafia then yea, I think it's safe to say I don't mind lynching you. If you can present a scenario where Subversion is telling the truth about being role blocked and Nemesis must be a fake DT then show it.
@Mango: If your vote is there and someone else comes in and quickvotes then it's an instant lynch.
That is false, it's not majority lynch ending day early or anything of the sort mango. Just like the previous nights, the votes will be tallied at day end and in the event of a tie, the person to receive the votes first gets lynched.
Ace, you're now saying I should be lynched for being part of two bad lynches. First of all, in no way does being part of bad lynches make me scum, and second, I tried my best to prevent the beneather inactivity lynch when he showed up with 5minutes to go and posted. obvious scum tell amirite?
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Being part of 2 bad lynches doesn't mean you are Scum. Taken into account with everything else though I don't see how you aren't Scum.
Also if you wanted to prevent the beneather lynch because he was inactive then why didn't orgolove get the same treatment?
Like I said before. If you can make a case for Subversion telling the truth about the roleblock and Nemesis lying about his DT claim I'm all ears.
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By the way if Nemesis is telling the truth then this exists:
2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town.
If he is telling the truth AND Subversion is also then this exists:
1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 5 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective
However no one has claimed medic and no one has counter-claimed DT. Subversion isn't here defending himself either. Why would you believe him over Nemesis? Don't you think it's something that no one else has been role blocked?
Otherwise you must be making the claim that Mafia figured out the setup a day ago and wanted to claim DT in advance or weren't afraid of a counter-claim. This also means they purposely wouldn't roleblock anyone again.
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On January 10 2011 06:49 Ace wrote:Being part of 2 bad lynches doesn't mean you are Scum. Taken into account with everything else though I don't see how you aren't Scum. Everything else: -Took initiative to change the inactive town atmosphere -Tried to stop the beneather lynch at the last minute because of new information -applied pressure to various people (nemesis, ace, subversion, orgolove, beneather) who were not contributing or appeared questionable -expressed my thoughts fearlessly and frequently -attracted all manner of attention to myself
Also if you wanted to prevent the beneather lynch because he was inactive then why didn't orgolove get the same treatment? I wanted to stop the beneather lynch because when he did post, he convinced me that he was a townie. Orgolove on the other hand was inactive but not afk, and nothing he did gave me any reason to believe he was town. Additionally, the only other lynch option yesterday was subversion. Would that have been better?Like I said before. If you can make a case for Subversion telling the truth about the roleblock and Nemesis lying about his DT claim I'm all ears. I already presented the case for nemesis being a lying scum.Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 05:23 aidnai wrote: ...
There are only two options here. 1) Nemesis is telling the truth. -Nemesis/meapak are clear, subversion is scum. -subversion fake claimed the roleblock, there is no roleblocker -We are in setup 4: 2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town -Either aidnai/KJ or Gmarshal/foolishness/mango are the remaining scum team.
Problems: -Assuming Nemesis is really a DT, why not pick orgolove night one? why not pick me night two? -I don't believe Gmarshal et al are scum. -Doesn't explain Subversion's complete lack of interest in the game.
or 2) Nemesis is lying -Scum team is pushing an easy lynch to finish us off -Subversion is an apathetic townie, he told the truth about his roleblock claim -With no blues claiming and a mafia roleblocker, we are in setup 2 -The remaining scum team is between aidnai/meapak/mango-gmarshal -most likely remaining scum is meapak (since nemesis tried to clear them, and other teams are likely greens)
Problems: -why would scum do something so bold when they were doing just fine without a fakeclaim? It's almost certain one of subversion/aidnai would have been lynched today anyway.
For me right now, it comes down to Gmarshal being town. That right there proves to me that nemesis is lying. Of course, I need to convince Gmarshal/mango and subversion that I am town as well. Have you been able to talk to foolishness yet? I feel weird tooting my own horn, but if I have to, I will go back and analyze myself to show I can't be mafia. ...
On January 10 2011 06:53 Ace wrote: By the way if Nemesis is telling the truth then this exists:
2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town. I already pointed this out -_- If he is telling the truth AND Subversion is also then this exists: If nemesis is telling the truth, Subversion is scum, extremely unlikely to have been roleblocked 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 5 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective
However no one has claimed medic and no one has counter-claimed DT. Subversion isn't here defending himself either. Why would you believe him over Nemesis? I think it's much more likely that a green will completely fail to show up to defend himself than a red. Unfortunately, neither of my lynch targets showed up yesterday... Don't you think it's something that no one else has been role blocked?no, it's pretty much expected whether subversion was telling the truth or not. Mafia would never confirm subversion's innocence by blocking someone else, especially since he's an easy lynch target.
Otherwise you must be making the claim that Mafia figured out the setup a day ago and wanted to claim DT in advance or weren't afraid of a counter-claim. This also means they purposely wouldn't roleblock anyone again.Mafia didn't have to know the setup to figure out it's smarter to only block subversion or no one at all
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If Mafia don't know the setup they don't know if there is a medic or DT. Why would they take that chance and not roleblock anyone else?
Regardless Subversion nor Incognito are not here defending themselves. I'll believe Nemesis over an absent player.
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I'm not talking to you anymore Ace. I'm not getting in a spam war when I need my townies to be able to decide clearly and quickly.
Gmarshal -- this is for you when you get here.
A HUGE issue for town right now is subversion being afk. If he doesn't show up and he is town, then the only way we get a town lynch done today is if we get our votes on a scum before they get their votes on us. Therefore, Gmarshal/Mango, I'm urging you to vote nemesis immediately, even if you aren't 100% convinced by what I say at the moment. If subversion really is scum, then town will be able to get a majority vote whether or not he shows up. If subversion is innocent, then it is imperative that we get our lynch votes ASAP.
On January 10 2011 05:53 TheMango wrote: ##Vote Nemesis/Chaoser
voting now in case it comes down to a tie, but this is not a 100% confirmed vote for me, I may switch before the day is up.
On January 10 2011 05:54 TheMango wrote: I'll see if I can get in touch with gmarshall
Please vote first, talk later for the reasons listed above. If I'm right, town is dead the moment meapak shows up. This is basically a race. I'll be around if you have questions.
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United States22154 Posts
##Vote Nemesis/Chaoser
Persuaded by the above arguments, there's still time for me to change it if I change my mind but for now this is it
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United States22154 Posts
##Vote Nemesis/Chaoser forgot to bold
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Thank you. Remember, all this vote does is buy us time to decide properly. Now you have to make your real decision.
So here's the issues you need to think through.
Assuming that you (team 2) are not mafia, then you only have two options. Nemesis is DT: Subversion/aidnai for scum team. OR Nemesis is liar: Nemesis/meapak for scum team. There's no other possibilities, thanks to Nemesis' claim.
All you have to do is decide is which combo it is.
Subversion, just in case you do show up, 1) I hope you have a good reason for your activity level (but hopefully nothing horrible happened), and 2), I don't believe there's any rush for your vote, so take your time ask questions and decide well.
Nemesis/Chaoser: 2 GMarshal (0.5) (safety vote) TheMango (0.5) (safety vote) aidnai
Subversion: 1 Nemesis
Not yet voted: Subversion, Meapak_ziphh
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Hmm, I am not sure as to who Subversion's mafia partner is but if town don't vote together in this scenario, town will lose for sure. If mafia manages to convince even 1 person to vote with them, town loses.
Really think about this carefully. Aidnai, you seem to be pretty convinced that I am scum and Subversion is town, when a day ago you were all over him for his roleclaim. What made you change your opinion of him?
On January 10 2011 06:53 Ace wrote: By the way if Nemesis is telling the truth then this exists:
2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town. I already pointed this out -_- If he is telling the truth AND Subversion is also then this exists: If nemesis is telling the truth, Subversion is scum, extremely unlikely to have been roleblocked 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 5 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective
However no one has claimed medic and no one has counter-claimed DT. Subversion isn't here defending himself either. Why would you believe him over Nemesis? I think it's much more likely that a green will completely fail to show up to defend himself than a red. Unfortunately, neither of my lynch targets showed up yesterday... Don't you think it's something that no one else has been role blocked?no, it's pretty much expected whether subversion was telling the truth or not. Mafia would never confirm subversion's innocence by blocking someone else, especially since he's an easy lynch target.
Otherwise you must be making the claim that Mafia figured out the setup a day ago and wanted to claim DT in advance or weren't afraid of a counter-claim. This also means they purposely wouldn't roleblock anyone again.Mafia didn't have to know the setup to figure out it's smarter to only block subversion or no one at all You seem to be WIFOMing all over the place here trying to make the situation fit with your opinion. Really, green is more likely to fail to defend himself? Where the hell did you get that info from?
And tell me, gMarshall/theMango, what makes me fake claiming DT more likely than subversion fakeclaiming to have been roleblocked?
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headed out and about for the evening. Nemesis, the problem with your claim is that it means either GMango or me are scum, and I don't believe that. I went back over the posting history, and meapak/nemesis scum team makes a lot more sense.
If Gmango comes to any conclusions (sorry just getting tired of typing both names), please post in the thread at the very least for the sake of subversion who may/may not show up to vote at some point. You guys have an advantage in having a few perspectives you can trust (3 man team I mean), so I trust you to get this one right.
Be back later tonight.
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A meapak/nemesis Scum team makes a lot more sense? Explain. Show the series of posts that helped you arrive at that conclusion.
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On January 10 2011 09:59 aidnai wrote: headed out and about for the evening. Nemesis, the problem with your claim is that it means either GMango or me are scum, and I don't believe that. I went back over the posting history, and meapak/nemesis scum team makes a lot more sense.
If Gmango comes to any conclusions (sorry just getting tired of typing both names), please post in the thread at the very least for the sake of subversion who may/may not show up to vote at some point. You guys have an advantage in having a few perspectives you can trust (3 man team I mean), so I trust you to get this one right.
Be back later tonight. Can you at least post what makes you think that meapak/Nemesis scum team makes more sense?
Also, if you really are town, I suggest you ask kingjames01 to asess the situation himself.
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Problems: -Assuming Nemesis is really a DT, why not pick orgolove night one? why not pick me night two? -I don't believe Gmarshal et al are scum. -Doesn't explain Subversion's complete lack of interest in the game.
We checked Ace first night because 1) he was semi inactive and 2) Ace is the best player in this game, to not check him would stupid. If he's alive then I don't have to suspect him when he makes it past two days. If he's dead, we'll have wasted a check but I would rather not have to worry about the alignment of Ace.
Why would we pick you over Subversion? He claimed he got role blocked. That's suspicious enough for a check. That added in with the fact that he basically came in, said he got blocked and then never even joined in the conversation about the block and discussing the incident at all reeked of scum to me so we decided to check him.
I'm pretty sure Mango ain't scum either so obviously you would be trying very very hard to say we're fake claiming cause you red =]
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United States22154 Posts
an in depth discussion of what the mafia may have been thinking
Lets take it from day 1 shall we
Day 1: Mafia discovers which setup they are up against, sort of, they either have a role blocker or they don’t. Lets see where both paths lead
Day 1 with a role blocker, basically here the mafia has one goal, to try to establish whether they are up against 2 blues or no blues, if they are up against two blues then they have to try to get them to claim asap to take them out
Day 1 without a roleblocker. The mafia knows they are up either against a medic or a DT, the challenge is to establish which and take it out as soon as possible, if they play their hand right they may be able to fake claim the other role. Night 1 with or without- the mafia chooses to take out LSB the most vocal person in the town, this is the obvious choice for the medic to protect and as LSB dies the mafia can essentially conclude that there is no medic or that the medic is rather stupid
Night 1 with a role blocker- Here is where things get interesting, if the mafia has a role blocker then they chose to role block Subversion, this would make sense if there is a possibility they might be up against two blues, also they don’t know whether their hit on LSB has been successful yet, hence their only real choice was to use it. Why Subversion? If the mafia is moderately intelligent they noticed that he was essentially just lurking and hence could possibly be a blue trying to avoid the mafia’s attention on the first day.
Night 1 without a role blocker – this one assumes that Subversion is Mafia, and is claiming to be role blocked to make the town think that they are in setup 1 or 2. However this to me seems like a less than wise choice, unless the mafia is prepared to have the other member claim to be role blocked the following day, honestly if the mafia did this it had to be to setup a fake role claim, if this is so where is it and why hasn’t it manifested? Also why did the second member not claim his role block today allowing one the members to claim a probable setup 2 and thus a “fake claim” from Nemesis? For this reason this seems unlikely. It just feels way too ballsy for mafia no real tangible benefit.
Day 2 with a role blocker - The mafia is pretty content with the fact that Subversion is gathering suspicion for telling the town he was role blocked, since none of their members are under suspicion (the only threatened people are subversion and the aidnai teams, as well as Orgolove all of which they know to be innocent. (Since the mafia would have to be Nemesis and meapak or Aidnai, and nemesis’ attack on Aidnai clears him in my mind if we assume this setup, hence leaving meapak as the only viable other scum)
Day 2 without a role blocker, this incriminates aidnai as he seems to push for Orgolove/Flamewheel and barely manages to escape the push forming against him, in this case subversion and aidnai basically have to be mafia, and they are just happy that they avoided death, it still doesn’t account for why aidnai didn’t either claim to have been role blocked the following morning, thus clearing subversion and setting up Nemesis for a rather harsh fall or claim the missing role, medic. This leads me to suspect that the mafia does in fact have a role blocker, and that they’ve been very wise about how to use him.
Night 2 with a role blocker – the mafia hits and either role blocks Subversion again (as claiming hey I was role blocked for the second time would make him doubly suspicious) or chooses to save the block, knowing that if they can get Sub to hang then the game is in the bag for them.
Day 3 – here nemesis role claims, leading to our current predicament, one of two situations, either Nemesis and meapak are scum or Nemesis is clear and subversion and aidnai are scum.
As I see it would make no sense for a member of the mafia to claim to have been role blocked and then have no follow up on the following day, and no fake roleclaim, for this reason I believe the mafia has a role blocker and that Nemesis is most certainly mafia, with meapak almost certainly being the other.
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Sometimes it's just better to think of a simple answer. You have no idea what the Mafia know and don't know their motives. Hence it's just a simple decision on who is more believable here.
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Have you forgotten about the fact that after Subversion claimed he got roleblocked, he pretty much disappeared from the game? What kind of townie would do that? Why would it make no sense for a mafia to claim to be role blocked and then have no follow up? Mafia want to cause chaos, no matter how it comes about. Look at Mafia XXIV (I think), where mafia claimed to have been hit and then hit and left the rest of the analysis of what happened to the town. When a townie gets hit or saved or whatever, most of the time they themselves want to get to the bottom of the situation because it involved THEM. To just say something and leave is very scummy. Not to mention look at his posts:
i dont really see what the point is of DTs checking inactives if its publicly announced. Surely then mafia will just make sure they're not inactive to avoid being detected?
It's a good thing for mafia to be active, active mafia=mafia that's easy spot since they can't hide.
His next few posts are just of him repeating that he's voting for BC/Beneather cause they aren't active
On January 05 2011 09:00 Subversion wrote: omg, somehow completely fucked something up in the above post, sorry for the random screwed up quotes =/
also need to bold my vote
##Vote Beneather/BC
Oh okay, soz, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Ugh this Day 1 vote is really just.. meh. Really not much to go on. For now I'm going with:
##Vote Beneather/BC
My main reasoning here is that Beneather seems reluctant to say anything without BC being here to give him advice. Seems like a scummy junior would be scared of exposing himself without a senior to run his posts by. Also, BC yet to make an appearance.
and finally his last two posts are of him claiming to be roleblocked and then responding to an FoS on him.
There's been no contribution or actively of his that in anyway has helped the town. Lynch his ass.
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Wow, many grammar errors, my bad.
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GMarshall, you seem to be WIFOMing all over the place.
If you want to go to WIFOM land, then let me just pose this to you:
You said it yourself that if there was a roleblocker, mafia is content Subversion and Aidnai was gathering suspicion during day 2, and that I was pretty much not in the spotlight.
Third day, I could have easily pushed for either of them without fake-claiming. By fake-claiming, I have pretty much put myself in the spotlight where I was pretty safe before. Why go for a risky fake-claim to push for their lynch when I can just as easily push for their lynch without fake-claiming?
Do you see the hole in your thought process now?
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Back. I'm trying to re-read everything from gmarshal/mango with an open mind to see if I could be wrong about them. I was wrong about orgo and I don't want to tunnel.
If I throw out my assumption that team 2 is town, then I'm open to the possibility of a subversion/gmango scum team.
Chaoser, I know subversion has looked pretty damn scummy. But scum try their best NOT to look scummy, and that's what's missing from the picture with Subversion. In any case, I made my earlier posts on the basis of reading gmango as green, not based on my read of subversion. Assuming you're really the DT, and you get your way today with lynching subversion: Who's next, me or gmango? It's not too early to talk about and it will help me think things through today.
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There is no reason to talk about what Nemesis/chaoser are going to do next. Lets keep the focus on what matters right now since we are in LYLO after all ok?
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Nemesis, that is the one unsolved problem for me. You fake claiming...just doesn't make sense. You have a free lynch on either me or subversion anyway. I end up in WIFOM land whenever I try to figure this out.
Gmarshal - gonna have to agree with Ace that you should keep it simple. The kind of argument you went through is way too fragile.
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The reason I want to hear is I need another perspective on gmango. KJ is not around, and even though I can't fully trust the rest of you, I want to hear some arguments about why gmango is scum or not. Remember my entire line of reasoning is resting on team 2 being town...
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##Vote Subversion
Aidnai was the person behind the orgo lynch, a lynch which magically appeared right as I fos'd subversion. If you are town vote subversion now, don't let Aidnai pull wool over your eyes.
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Oh and Aidnai what happened to letting someone else lead the town?
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Hey Aidnai why are you so sure the gm/mango are town? I'm not saying they're scum in fact I think they're town because of the emphasis you place on them. Only mafia have absolute knowledge of alignment so they can easily call out someone as "probably town" in order to gain that persons trust. Gm/mango you guys need to Unvote now and stop sheeping for Aidnai. Take a good long look at the thread then come back and vote. You'll find Aidnai actualy stopped us from lynching scum by drawing attention away from subversion onto orgo. I voted for orgo at aidnai's behest but look at his reaction when I switched my vote, he wanted to make sure attention stayed off his scum buddy. Personally I won't be suprised if subversion doesnt show up, he's trying to avoid attention. Read the thread well mango/gm and choose your vote carefully.
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Hi meapak. What's your read on team 2?
Also, look me in the eyes and tell me you're town.
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I think they're town because you think they're town, I think you're trying to use them to get your final lynch, you're trying to make them trust you by saying they're town. What I want them to do is reread the thread and decide if they really trust you.
I am town
There I said it. You already knew that but this was for the benefit of everyone else. And if you doubt me then reread the thread. I encourage everyone to reread the thread before making their final decision.
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I'm rethinking my read of team 2 right now meapak. If I was actually wrong about them, that means virtually every single opinion I have formed this game was incorrect... I thought orgolove was red, I thought deconduo was blue, I thought gmango was green, I thought nemesis was suspicious.
I'm gonna sleep on this one. see you all in the morning.
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Glad to hear we've all calmed down a little. Gm/mango unvote now so we're not lynching anyone yet. I don't like you guys haveing hammer power but even worse would be a misslynch. I too am going to bed and I encourage everyone to take a step back and go over everything again. This is lylo, we absolutely cannot screw this up.
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Bump Why aren't people discusing? gm/mango where are you? We need to hear other voices other than Aidnai and myself. I want to understand why everyone is doing what they're doing. Nemisis and I are understandable, I've been the major push on subervsion and Nemisis checked subversion as red. Aidnai is understandable as well but for the wrong reasons I firmly believe Aidnai is wrong about subversion. I'm still on the fence about Aidnai being red or not, as wrong as I think he is, he has been one of the more vocal players and since he's said he's going to take another look at gm/mango I'm willing to give him the benifit of the doubt. However we need to hear from everyone else. This is our most important day and the town is silent
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this feels like a duel at high noon. Who will flinch first?
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whoa, i didn't see you had just posted weird timing.
I am going to switch to subversion. But because it's irreversible if I do (unless subversion shows up, which I doubt), I'll still postpone changing my vote.
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United States1966 Posts
Just got done with work, so I've been reading the recent posts. I'm really surprised the aidnai is suddenly switching to subversion, when he was dead set on nemesis...
basically it comes down to this for me: Nemesis/Chaos & Meapak/Ace are mafia team, or it's aidnai/KJ & Subversion/Incognito are mafia team.
Although I was suspicious of aidnai, the last couple posts had me leaning towards him being town, and Nemesis DT claim is more suspicious to me than Subversion roleblocked claim. I think Subversion is more likely just a really inactive townie, while Nemesis claim of DT seems like a desperate measure to win the game. I'm currently writing up an analysis of why I think Nenemsis/Chaos & Meapak/Ace are mafia, might take me 15 mins or so.
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Why is it a desperate measure to win the game? Subversion's roleblock still wasn't brought up. If we were mafia, wouldn't it be easier to just bring that issue back up? There was barely any heat on Ace/Nemesis so why would we bring the heat on us by stirring the pot for no reason?
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It's games like these where I really appreciate the power of Vigilantes.
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You know, with the way that aidnai is unsure and how themango is 100% dead set and pulling for the lynch of ace/meapak and me/nemesis hardcore, the teams might be subversion of mango. Either way, if Sub is lynched, I is dead tonight from mafia lol
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On January 11 2011 07:44 TheMango wrote: Just got done with work, so I've been reading the recent posts. I'm really surprised the aidnai is suddenly switching to subversion, when he was dead set on nemesis...
basically it comes down to this for me: Nemesis/Chaos & Meapak/Ace are mafia team, or it's aidnai/KJ & Subversion/Incognito are mafia team.
Although I was suspicious of aidnai, the last couple posts had me leaning towards him being town, and Nemesis DT claim is more suspicious to me than Subversion roleblocked claim. I think Subversion is more likely just a really inactive townie, while Nemesis claim of DT seems like a desperate measure to win the game. I'm currently writing up an analysis of why I think Nenemsis/Chaos & Meapak/Ace are mafia, might take me 15 mins or so. Hmm...it's been over half an hour, nice analysis.
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remember Mango, once you switch your vote it's final, because of the tie situation. So don't do it until you're absolutely certain. Just saying.
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United States1966 Posts
Ok, so I was in the middle of typing up a long analysis on Nemesis's voting/posting pattern, but I'm going to do a setup analysis first:
Set Up: 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 5 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective (Not likely, that means, 2 of the 5 teams are blue, and we haven't had a save yet, nor do we have people claiming themselves at this critical day period)
1 Mafia Role Blocker, 1 Mafia Goon, 7 Town (The most likely scenario if Subversion roleblock claim is correct, and Nemsis is fake claiming DT)
2 Mafia Goon, 1 Medic, 6 Town. (Not likely at all, since then both Subversion AND Nemesis are lying, which makes zero sense)
2 Mafia Goon, 1 Detective, 6 Town. (The most likely scenario if Subversion is lying and Nemesis is actually DT)
Here is my 'read' on Subversion. He just doesn't care and is super inactive. The role block claim was legit. I think a fake roleblock claim by an inactive mafia makes so sense, and him being inactive actually reinforces my opinion that he is in fact green. Everything points to someone that just doesn't care enough to be active (btw mods, I think he should at least get a warning for this game at least, because his inactivity is borderline modkill level.)
I'll post a more detailed post on Nemesis after I eat dinner, but looking at both team pairs as a whole, I have to go with the nemesis/chaose & meapak/ace over kj/aidnai & subversion/incog. Basically it comes down to the latter team feeling way more green than the first team pair.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 11 2011 08:31 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2011 07:44 TheMango wrote: Just got done with work, so I've been reading the recent posts. I'm really surprised the aidnai is suddenly switching to subversion, when he was dead set on nemesis...
basically it comes down to this for me: Nemesis/Chaos & Meapak/Ace are mafia team, or it's aidnai/KJ & Subversion/Incognito are mafia team.
Although I was suspicious of aidnai, the last couple posts had me leaning towards him being town, and Nemesis DT claim is more suspicious to me than Subversion roleblocked claim. I think Subversion is more likely just a really inactive townie, while Nemesis claim of DT seems like a desperate measure to win the game. I'm currently writing up an analysis of why I think Nenemsis/Chaos & Meapak/Ace are mafia, might take me 15 mins or so. Hmm...it's been over half an hour, nice analysis.
I got interrupted couple times IRL, don't you worry, analysis on you is incoming.
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United States1966 Posts
On January 11 2011 08:36 aidnai wrote: remember Mango, once you switch your vote it's final, because of the tie situation. So don't do it until you're absolutely certain. Just saying.
yea, I dont want to get vote sniped either, but I'm pretty certain that Nemesis/Chaoser & meapak/Ace are mafia team, pending some explanations from Subversion/Incog (they better show up)
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United States1966 Posts
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How does being inactive = green?
Being inactive does not imply the role of anyone.
And I guess I'll be waiting for your real analysis then.
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RoL can you confirm the time left? I believe we have just over 4 hours today?
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United States1966 Posts
Nemesis vote history (counting the ones he retracted)
Vote: TheMango/Gmarshal/Foolishness (Day 1 vote) - retracted ##Vote: Team 9 Flamewheel/Orgolove (Day 1 vote) - townie ##Vote Team 6 Kingjames01/Aidnai (Day 2 vote) - townie ##Vote Team 7 Subversion/Incognito (Day 3 vote) - based on DT claim checks
small game/small sample size, could have easily just made wrong votes as a townie, I think some of us may have similar records, so not really too suspicious by itself...
Day 1 Votes - Votes on the 'inactives', which to be fair, both me and Gmarshall were inactive for most of Day 1, then he switches to another town team.
Day 2 Votes - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=175638¤tpage=16#316
says Subversion is NOT scummy, then votes KJ/aidnai, and then 'CHECKS' subversion???
Day 3 - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=175638¤tpage=16#316 and read the post right below. Looks like mafia team work to me imo.
I've had my suspicions about Meapak/Ace as well, due to Meapak's suspicious inactivity around the time he got killed in the Mafia game (he was active on the IRC channel even after his death, but was inactive in this game for at least a day or so). But other than that, my case on them is pretty weak. My main suspicion is on Nemesis, and by association, I'm saying Meapak/Ace has to be mafia for obvious reasons.
It looks like the swing vote rests with KJ/aidnai. I do not want to make a mistake and lose the game at this point, so I hope Subversion/Incog shows up ASAP and says something. Also, it would help if KJ spoke up, being the senior on that team.
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United States1966 Posts
I'm going to be playing sc2 for about 2 hours so brb, but I'll definitely be here for the last 2 hours or so.
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United States1966 Posts
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Aidnai you need to switch your vote. Mango is dragging his feet and I'm almost certain now that the scum team is gm/mango and subversion. Notice how he's active right when things appear to be about to swing out of his favor but he hasn't really added anything except for an "analysis" of voting patterns which falls under "contributing without contributing" he's promising a big analysis but look at his posts, he's probably going to delay it right until the end. You need to switch now Aidnai, don't let mango run railroad this one through.
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oh and lol mango, by "active in the irc channel" you mean that I asked if I could lurk even though I was dead and then proceded to leave my computer. Basing you suspicions off of inactivity is laughable at best and scummy at worst. I'm one of the only people who did a decent analysis so far and you don't even consider that. That also reminds me, read my analysis and subversions sibsequent "response" subversion barely explains his actions. Aidnai I hope you read this in time because you're the only hope the town's got since mango is acting so scummy.
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United States1966 Posts
becoming desperate? so now I'm obviously mafia since I called you guys out? The truth is, my analysis doesnt prove 100% on way or the other, or we wouldnt be in this situation. But im now convinced based on your reaction.
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United States1966 Posts
I have irc logs that prove you were chatting in that channel while people were wondering where you were in our game. I dont think I can even post them here, but I'm not the only one that called you out on it.
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lawl at your "analysis" if you can even call it that. You can't even draw connections between nemesis/me and Ace/meatpak's team at all can you? While I can 100% draw connections between you and subversion. You're all over his ass right now trying hard as fuck to shove this idea that he's townie while I/nemesis haven't done a single thing past claiming we checked ace and found he was townie. We didn't try to do any analysis, any bullshit logic, nothing of that sort. Aidnai, vote Gmango and lets win this game
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lol no I'm just pissed the town is going to lose because no one analyzed anything. This game has been pretty pathetic in terms of actual analysis. You don't have any "analysis" so of course it doesn't prove 100 percent either way. We have a DT telling us "Subversion is red" We have an analysis done that points to subversion being red and we have no counter claim of DT, if you are a DT you should claim now because guess what, if we mislynch we lose. I don't see how I can be any clearer here people, Aidnai this lynch is in your hands.
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On January 11 2011 11:24 TheMango wrote: I have irc logs that prove you were chatting in that channel while people were wondering where you were in our game. I dont think I can even post them here, but I'm not the only one that called you out on it. Oh and lol at this... just lol. I bolded my favorite part.
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United States1966 Posts
? whats so lol about it. I wish gmarshal was here so he could back me up, or tell me I'm being stupid. But you're acting very scummy right now. I like how you ask the DT to come out, as someone wouldnt have come out already if they were DT, LOL
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It's basically a personality contest between you and me mango because you're calling me scummy without any evidence so it'll just depend on who Aidnai decides to vote for.
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=[ how come I'm not in that contest?? sadface
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United States1966 Posts
people better start coming on and posting because this would be really sad if we lost cause of lack of information due to inactives. Need gmarshal, subversion to post asap, and seniors KJ and foolishness would be of great help right now.
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when is deadline for day's end? =/
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United States1966 Posts
1.5 hours... I'm not hopeful, if they haven't shown up by now, its unlikely they will show up last minute. Means vote lies with aidnai, which is why I'm praying KJ will log on and advise.
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I haven't heard anything from KJ yet. I'm not gonna count on any more people showing up to the party.
All the spam from the last page or two is hilarious, but kinda meaningless. So it all boils down to me?
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im here for the day ending don't worry. Half hour left int he day and about to do a vote tally
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Yes it does lol. It's pretty clear that either mango or I is scum, the question is who is the other mafia. Mango says it's nemisis because he came forward and said he checked subversion as scum. I say it's subversion, someone I've had my eye on, done an analysis on and has been called out as red by a dt. Mango is scum. He has no analysis to back him up and his case revolve around nemisis fakeclaiming and me be inactive/desperate. I'm town. I've done the only real analysis and have been I've got a scum cornered right now. You can tell by mango's posting.
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Current vote:
Team 7: Subversion/Incognito - 2 Nemesis Meapak_Ziphh
Team 8: Nemesis/Chaoser - 2 Aidnai TheMango(.5) GMarshal(.5)
____
Current voting. Team 8 is to be lynched because they received 2 votes first. Please let me know if I made any mistakes.
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Gah well, day is almost over
gg I guess
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gg wp mafia, it got kinda pathetic towards the end but this has been one of the more fun games I've played in. Nice job mango at the end and thank you Ace for being my senior. Sorry I wasnt more active in the beginning
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I'm not going to change my vote after all. Sorry for being stubborn, my (apparently poor) analysis got us this far, might as well go all the way. My sincere apologies if I am wrong, but regardless this has been an excellent learning experience for me. But the game isn't over yet, so i'll save that for later.
The reason nemesis had to fake claim: Mafia wants to say subversion fake claimed role block, i.e. there isn't really a roleblocker. That means we're in a setup with 1 blue role. Where's the blue? they had to fake claim. Was hoping some team would come along and point this out, but nobody did. Still wanted to believe in ace/meapak, but I really can't now.
Ace was all over LSB for his poor read of Ace's posts, but Ace's read of me was even worse. This has been a hard game for me to decipher, and if I turn out wrong my poor ego may never recover (actually it might be good for me). But in the end, I'm going to go with my analysis and trust myself one last time.
I already voted, but it feels like I should say something epic but I can't think of anything. oh well. Let's see what happens next...
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and that was my #600 post too... Oh god i hope i don't regret this...
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meh, I had fun too meapak. back to f5ing I guess...
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On January 11 2011 14:00 Subversion wrote: ##Vote Nemesis/Chaoser ninja...
but if you vote at 14:00, then you missed the deadline since deadline is 14:00 and TL doesn't show the second. So it is impossible for you to vote at exactly 14:00:00.
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Feeling your mistake yet Aidnai
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still crossing my fingers...
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I was expecting a last minute vote from subversion, but honestly it doesn't matter, aidnai's decision was what mattered the most.
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It seems like a town victory is just something very rare here in TL mafia
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On January 04 2011 07:13 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 06:36 aidnai wrote: EBWOP
A few rules to clear up: Are we expected to stop communicating with our senior/junior partner if they are modkilled? Do we vote to lynch teams, or individuals?
This game will have no modkills, I have decided it is pointless because both juniors and seniors are useless without the other. If you are inactive then its your loss on a learning experience and I will ban you from future boot camps. By joining this game and going inactive you steel someone elses opportunity to learn which is a dick move.
I want to hear your excuse, subversion, but really, dick move. Was this just to prove that town will destroy itself if mafia just afk's? I wish the modkill rule hadn't been modified, would have saved us a lot of trouble this game...
I guess I get the mafia's BFF award this game rofl. I'm gonna be bitter I think.
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Night 3
As nemesis and chaoser were dragged up by the panic stricken down they asked him if he had any last words. Nemesis glared back at them and shouted back "GUYS I AM SERIOUSLY THE MOTHER FUCKING DT"
Famous last words on TL mafia...
Team 8: Nemesis/Chaoser the Detective had died.
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i'm going to crawl in a hole and forget what the sun looks like. When I reemerge, you shall know me as smeagol. Farewell.
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The reason nemesis had to fake claim: Mafia wants to say subversion fake claimed role block, i.e. there isn't really a roleblocker. That means we're in a setup with 1 blue role. Where's the blue? they had to fake claim. Was hoping some team would come along and point this out, but nobody did. Still wanted to believe in ace/meapak, but I really can't now.
how did that make sense lol
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On January 11 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 07:13 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 04 2011 06:36 aidnai wrote: EBWOP
A few rules to clear up: Are we expected to stop communicating with our senior/junior partner if they are modkilled? Do we vote to lynch teams, or individuals?
This game will have no modkills, I have decided it is pointless because both juniors and seniors are useless without the other. If you are inactive then its your loss on a learning experience and I will ban you from future boot camps. By joining this game and going inactive you steel someone elses opportunity to learn which is a dick move. I want to hear your excuse, subversion, but really, dick move. Was this just to prove that town will destroy itself if mafia just afk's? I wish the modkill rule hadn't been modified, would have saved us a lot of trouble this game... I guess I get the mafia's BFF award this game rofl. I'm gonna be bitter I think.
Its quite the opposite actually. I've been extremely active, just not on the thread. Me and Incognito have been in constant communication and strategy talks. There were lots of plans to make big posts, but then someone else did the work for us or the attention shifted, and it just became best to sit back. This continued pretty much thoughout the game, with other people taking the charge to protect us.
The inactivity wasn't real, it was simply the best thing to do at the time. I learnt a hell of a lot from Incognito, who criticised the few posts I did make, and showed me how to analyse the town, how to not sound scummy, how I should play basically. It was a really great experience for me, sorry if I took some of that experience away from others, was simply doing what was best to win.
Sorry aidnai And the ninjavote was just to poke fun, I've been actively watching this thread the whole time
Also, pic fixed
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alright cool GG guys. Early lack of activity pissed me off but you guys stepped it up in the end.
So what did you guys think? Was being able to talk to a more experienced player knowing you shared a role and fate helpful? I know one of the big things is you have to wonder if in PM games if someone has an alternate agenda and I thought this would help in learning. I thought it failed at first but apparently for some it worked.
So I would like if everyone would post there thoughts about this. What you think could be done different if we choose to host another TMM boot camp game? All thoughts pertaining to concept and execution are appreciated.
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also subversion put on auto picture resizing through your profile. It makes reading the funny pictures thread way more bearable.
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@ chaoser, i and others posted several times something to the effect of "why would mafia need to fake claim when they had an easy lynch in the bag". the idea being it was an unnecessary risk. But, in fact, it would have been a necessary risk. I wanted someone to point this out just to see if anyone was trying, paying attention, and at least half-truthful. Nobody did.
There was no easy, logical choice for me. I had to go with my analysis, and even though i practically begged people to help me see why mango/gmarshal were scum, nobody did an analysis of them either.
I don't want to lay blame for the loss on anyone though. The truth is, my play was horribly flawed and there was a bunch of times I shoulda stayed quiet but was too paranoid to trust anyone else to make decisions for the town. Not to mention my analysis 'skills'.
In the end though I had fun, so there's no reason to go around making people feel bad. Not as much fun as if I had won, but maybe I learned more this way. GG everyone.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I was certainly impressed by my buddies. After the first day I think I PMed spammed them to post more and not be inactive lol and I'm glad they did just that. We didn't get to talk as much as I had hoped, but I was impressed when we did. They had good ideas and questions to ask. Props to them for getting a few townies to think they were also townie.
Good job to Nemesis/chaoser, I didn't suspect you of being blue. Incognito thought deconduo was blue so that's why we killed him the previous night. Personally I thought meapakh/Ace was medic, especially after deconduo flipped green. doh
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@Rebirth - personally I really enjoyed the setup, I learnt a LOT and if it hasn't been for incog I no doubt woulda gotten myself lynched within the 1st day
@aidnai - I don't think you should feel bad. You had strong convictions, you had reasoning, and you stuck by what you thought despite a lot of pressure. It may not have worked out this time, but in my noobish opinion, I think thats what makes a good mafia player. You were either going to be a total baller hero, or look a bit silly. Could have gone either way really.
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On January 11 2011 14:37 aidnai wrote: making people feel bad. Not as much fun as if I had won, but maybe I learned more this way. GG everyone.
my bad dude lol, wasn't trying to make you feel bad. The reason I was going grr over the fake claim is no one fake claims and then just disappears, never to talk about it. Should have been major sign when he claimed and then never showed up again, even at the end of the game when we were discussing it and I kept bringing it up. If anything, he should be the most vocal one cause fuck, he just got targetted by mafia, gotta get those fuckers back. If you were town and you got roleblocked, you wouldn't try to find out who did it? Adding in the fact that he basically said nothing all game and voted for Beneather for being inactive when he was just as inactive, was scum tells all over. Us checking him was just icing on the cake.
I don't think most people could do much analysis on mango's previous things in the game cause he played a decent fake townie. He didn't say much but he was active and fuck, most people didn't say much so he fell in with those. Even I thought he wasn't mafia till the very end when he basically threw everything away to save Subversion and pin mafia role on nemesis and me.
I told nemesis to play it a bit inactive and post not so much but say what he needed to say in his posts so no one would think we were blue and we were right =] too bad that also caused you to think we were mafia =/
Overall it was a good game though the midgame was semi inactive, I'd do this again lol, it's nicer than having 30 people screaming at each other (or in the case of XXXV, not due to inactivity lol). I think having the modkill but no ban would have been nice. Would have forced subversion to speak a bit more
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? Oh, I said no reason to make people feel bad talking about myself laying blame around. I had fun, why should I criticize anyone? I actually have really thick skin and never thought to take offense.
as for what worked: -feeling comfortable being able to trust SOMEBODY -seeing the game through someone else's eyes really helps avoiding simple mistakes like tunneling or going off of bad scumtells.
what didn't work: -too hard to coordinate schedules, I got very little back and forth with my partner (although in my past game with KJ I learned more than ever before or since thanks to his tutelage) -inactivity right off the bat while people try to coordinate -no modkills
My advice for the future would be to help define the senior's role more clearly. Voting partner or not? are they expected to post? should their posts be limited? etc. I personally like Ace's stricter inactivity guidelines too i.e. post every 24 hours. Although that's a lot harder to enforce.
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Also, I have to apologize to Nemesis, wasn't around at night on 7th and 8th, had a birthday party and ended up sleeping at someone else's house and then had a secret santa the very next day so I didn't get to check TL fully till the 9th, hope I was ok as a senior =[
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On January 11 2011 15:21 aidnai wrote: My advice for the future would be to help define the senior's role more clearly. Voting partner or not? are they expected to post? should their posts be limited? etc. I personally like Ace's stricter inactivity guidelines too i.e. post every 24 hours. Although that's a lot harder to enforce.
Oh yeah, I was also confused about what my exact role was going to be. Since we were blue, I didn't want to post in thread all that much and say something that somehow went against what Nemesis wrote and end up giving shit away so I tried not to post that much at all. Plus with the fact that I couldn't vote, I didn't know how to act in thread lol. Maybe next time make it uniform role?
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I really enjoyed this game however I'm kicking myself in the face right now for not being more active in the beginning. I only had a few PMs with Ace because I was very busy trying to save myself in the other game and then i went away for the weekend so I would have loved to have been more active. Anyway I'm proud of myself for actually fingering a red by pure analysis (now I just gotta learn to convince people ) and on that note I think I'll be taking a break from mafia for a while because school has started again and I don't have enough time to play. GG everyone and thanks Ace for being my senior and RoL for running the game.
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The size of this game is like perfect... you mess up twice, it's lylo, but you still got a good shot...you don't have to sift through posts from thirty people... It did feel inactive, and this thread is only page 24, but at least there was no spam problem... nice setup overall RoL. I liked the balance/size.
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On January 11 2011 15:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I really enjoyed this game however I'm kicking myself in the face right now for not being more active in the beginning. I only had a few PMs with Ace because I was very busy trying to save myself in the other game and then i went away for the weekend so I would have loved to have been more active. Anyway I'm proud of myself for actually fingering a red by pure analysis (now I just gotta learn to convince people ) and on that note I think I'll be taking a break from mafia for a while because school has started again and I don't have enough time to play. GG everyone and thanks Ace for being my senior and RoL for running the game. That's a real shame actually. If you wanted to learn how to argue better Ace is probably one of the best people to do that with. He attacks and defends very well and makes very strong points. Hem would of been a great person to learn from, but I don't blame you.
As for aidnai, sorry about that. I actually paired you two up on purpose because I figured you were familiar enough with each other as well as having similar enough schedules where there wouldn't be much conflict so you could get more out of it.
I am going to try to add in some more balance changes, like making DT's alignment cops. Removing roleblock information (unless your power fails). I really want to try to brainstorm and figure out whats the best set up to have for voting so I would like opinions on that too. Should seniors be voting? Should they be posting? What should I do in regards to mod kills?
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kudos to Nemesis and chaoser for being clutch and not thinking like idiots.
Also for future reference of why I believed Subversion had to be Scum:
On January 10 2011 07:34 Ace wrote: I'll believe Nemesis over an absent player.
Why would you side with someone that isn't even defending himself?
On January 10 2011 11:52 Ace wrote: Sometimes it's just better to think of a simple answer. You have no idea what the Mafia know and don't know their motives. Hence it's just a simple decision on who is more believable here.
Stop WIFOMing yourself. This was a really simple decision but you got caught up in stuff that really made no sense. Trying to find out who is the other Scum before getting on with the current lynch was a bad idea.
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Well it was fun being dt for the first time ever
I felt that there really wasn't enough communication between me and chaoser. We basically pmed each other once or twice a day. I would've liked a bit more guidance on what I was doing.
It was still nice to hear from another perspective though.
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Lets start another one up RoL lolol
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United States22154 Posts
I felt this game was really awesome, Its kind of a shame I missed the last day, but I was buried under tones of work I had to get done. Overall it was a pretty epic first game for me, and I certainly intend to participate in more mafia games. gg wp guys.
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I get killed way to early...
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United States1966 Posts
On January 12 2011 06:21 LSB wrote: I get killed way to early...
hahaha, too vocal, had to get rid of you asap! :D
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its a compliment LSB
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XD I've come to expect it in games.
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I would also like to say that in the short time that I played in this game, i too liked the small number of players. I also liked being able to talk to someone who i know is better than me, and KNOW without a doubt that what they are telling me is not a scum trying to mess me up. I wouldn't mind playing again, only next time I'll have to pick a partner who isn't slated for a night kill before the game begins...
LSB wasn't just vocal in the thread. While there wasn't a lot to talk about towards the beginning, we still were able to communicate a good deal after the game. Oh, and Ace. I don't know if you followed Merc Mafia, but I took something that you said earlier and made it my strategy. "You should just vote for whoever you think will not help you win the game." Except I replaced "Vote for" with "Blow up". It almost worked, too. I like that idea.
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I think this is a good format. The size makes it easy to play the game without being overwhelmed, especially as a learning game. I don't know how active all the seniors were, but I know this was helpful for subversion and a few others. As for modkills, I'm neutral. Maybe have modkills, except no bans associated with them. As a learning experience it would be souring to have bans come out of it, but posting is necessary.
As for the role of the seniors, I think each team took it differently. Some played quietly behind the scenes, while others took an active role posting and calling people out. I'm kinda on the fence about this. I know everyone has their own style, but I feel like seniors should take a more back seat role. Yes, calling out people and being dominant in thread may get things rolling, but I feel like it could intimidate or take detract from the whole learning experience. Sometimes its just scary to get out there and try to argue with a big bad vet. And sometimes it seems like there's some following going around. I saw a few posts where people made decisions because thats what their senior thought/told them. I'm not sure if they actually agreed with the thought process or were just following along. I think having only juniors voting went ok, but it didn't come with the activity I hoped for. I'd still think its a good idea to have in the next game though.
Its too bad that some seniors were afk the whole time. But its hard to prevent. I had an idea I discussed with RoL earlier that involved a larger game + a couple seniors just posting a bit in the thread to give general thoughts during the game. Sometimes its difficult to know exactly what's going on or where to go. The biggest slips from both town and mafia come from not knowing what to do and how to do it. Execution is critical, but it seems to be getting messed up all the time when there's all sorts of chaos going around. Some sort of general guidance in a larger game might be appropriate to get people thinking about their role in larger games.
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I took a super laid back approach until LYLO. I was just letting Meapak figure out things unless he asked for help ^_^
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On January 12 2011 00:49 chaoser wrote: Lets start another one up RoL lolol SINCE NO ONE WANTS TO HOST UP A MINI GAME! Round two? F-F-F-ight?????
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yeah, if you're serious RoL, I'm in. I had a blast this game...and I want to redeem myself somewhat as well
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On January 14 2011 22:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:SINCE NO ONE WANTS TO HOST UP A MINI GAME! Round two? F-F-F-ight?????
REhost so i can play
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