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On September 08 2010 12:17 Caller wrote:
Not Night Yet
Pandain was in the midst of defending himself when suddenly he was shot multiple times by a variety of hand guns, most of which were proud Soviet issued Nagants but a handful of which did not seem Soviet. One of them even sounded like an old 13th Century Hand Cannon.
In any case, whichever shot killed him, as Pandain fell so did the bags of money he was holding. Such a traitor to the Soviet cause deserved his punishment.
Pandain the Capitalist-aligned Traitor is dead.
Pending Judgement:
Zeks-10 Hours
yay well done my brothers
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![[image loading]](http://sovietrussia.su/communism_its_a_party.jpg)
Well done my brothers, I think this is the first game where mafia has been Lynched so early... that is, if he was lynched. Still puzzling over Callers flavor text....
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Err that should be modified with "that I have played in" I am sure there are examples of mafia on first lynch.
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Considering we got 1 maf, we can afford to let it go into night without killing zeks? Or can we?
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Going back over the thread with the thrilling knowledge that Pandain was capitalist yields interesting results.
Instead of doing in depth analysis I will simply list them and rely on your discerning natures.
1. Lakrismamma - One of the few people to defend Pandain, and the way he does it is very "lukewarm" typically a tell in my eyes, even at one point publically changes his mind after one post from pandain.
2. Infundibulum - Another who supports Pandain, the nature of his posts are less telling than Lakris's to me but thats speculation, to point out just one clear thing. At one point he lists all of Bumatlarge's posts and accuses him of being scum on quite poor reasoning, he does the same for Pandain although instead asserts that he believes pandain to just be playing innocent green.
3. OpZ - Apart from a post on about page 8 where he jokingly (or opportunistically!) calls Pandain homosexual there is no interaction whatsoever between OpZ and Pandain, it is quite easy to read too much into these things, but I found it odd and telling enough to list.
Suggestion: I would all do the following, firstly go over the thread, even just skim it in like 5mins all the while looking for links based on peoples interaction (or lack of) with Pandain. The above is simply the impression I got on people when I did the same, OpZ is the weakest of my suspicions, Lakris and Infundibulum have more substantial reasoning.
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I'm also wondering what is meant by the traitor role. In a normal mafia game, its just a mafia aligned townie basically. They don't know who the mafia are, and similarly the mafia don't know who they are. If that is the case here, then people against the Pandain lynch doesn't help us much.
However, considering the setup we are in, the capitalists could all be considered 'traitors' as it were. I don't know. Something to think about anyway.
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Another couple of points or to be more truthful, subjective opinions, that I'd like to throw out there.
Rastaban is clearly and unequivocally town.
Hesmyrr, whilst not to the same extent strikes me quite strongly as town at this point (contrary to what I previously thought)
Zeks is likely town, Pandain pushes for his lynching, time-wise it does not seem to me to fit with the idea that Pandain was doing so knowing he would die and to strategically protect a fellow mafia, so Zeks seems innocent to me.
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Awww fadoodle 
I thought I had lived :O
Pandain the Panda hopes you all die!
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Should be night time soon I think.
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On September 08 2010 18:33 XeliN wrote:
Going back over the thread with the thrilling knowledge that Pandain was capitalist yields interesting results.
Instead of doing in depth analysis I will simply list them and rely on your discerning natures.
1. Lakrismamma - One of the few people to defend Pandain, and the way he does it is very "lukewarm" typically a tell in my eyes, even at one point publically changes his mind after one post from pandain.
2. Infundibulum - Another who supports Pandain, the nature of his posts are less telling than Lakris's to me but thats speculation, to point out just one clear thing. At one point he lists all of Bumatlarge's posts and accuses him of being scum on quite poor reasoning, he does the same for Pandain although instead asserts that he believes pandain to just be playing innocent green.
3. OpZ - Apart from a post on about page 8 where he jokingly (or opportunistically!) calls Pandain homosexual there is no interaction whatsoever between OpZ and Pandain, it is quite easy to read too much into these things, but I found it odd and telling enough to list.
Suggestion: I would all do the following, firstly go over the thread, even just skim it in like 5mins all the while looking for links based on peoples interaction (or lack of) with Pandain. The above is simply the impression I got on people when I did the same, OpZ is the weakest of my suspicions, Lakris and Infundibulum have more substantial reasoning.
Well its pretty easy to be smart after a situation is out. It is much harder to actually do it while you are in a situation. I also accused Pandai even though I changed my mind later.At least I publicly stated my arguments and thoughts along the way.
I looked through Pandains posts but didnt find that muchthat hasnt already been broguth up.
On September 07 2010 10:56 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 10:52 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh I apologize for not contributing as much as you pandain. How about we kill myself pandain and divinek. Id be ok with that.
##Accuse Divinek What the fadoodle are you doing man. Seriously, now your just throwing out accusations without any reasons why. At least do the mercy of the trial portion :p. If your really town, stop and think about what your doing and how you can help. But if your mafia, as I think you are, then you wouldn't care so go along.
He was against Diviniks vote but I think that it was more to get bum killed than anything else.
Since he was accusing Zeks I will vote against it. We need a new accusation though
since at least one of our detectives are dead we have not much to gain by letting the game go into night.
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On September 08 2010 07:22 Pandain wrote:
Alright guys we have a number of options we can do, and I'd like to hear feedback on all of them.
1.Let the day go by(no lynch).
I dont like this, no pressure on mafia, they might not even have to talk. In addition, the risk of deaths during the next night are enough to outweigh the possibility of a mislynch.
2.Lynch Inactives
I like this, forces mafia to become more active, gets people talking in this dire situation. Makes mafia unable to just hide in the shadows and let the townies die off by lynching each other. In addition inactives are at best useless and usually uninformed. I would suggest lynching zeks, then moving on to possibly xelin.
3.Lynch around the Rosie
Due to NKVD dying and 3 kills last night, we might want to just start lynching every scummy person we can. However, I am personally against this right now because it may result in just us losing a bunch of townies. Its basically a matter of luck, and no more. Unfortunately, that may be all we have anyway.
4.Something else.
Ideas?
He was also pushing for lynching Xelin. Something I have done as well. Now im not so sure.
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On September 08 2010 18:33 XeliN wrote:
Going back over the thread with the thrilling knowledge that Pandain was capitalist yields interesting results.
Instead of doing in depth analysis I will simply list them and rely on your discerning natures.
1. Lakrismamma - One of the few people to defend Pandain, and the way he does it is very "lukewarm" typically a tell in my eyes, even at one point publically changes his mind after one post from pandain.
2. Infundibulum - Another who supports Pandain, the nature of his posts are less telling than Lakris's to me but thats speculation, to point out just one clear thing. At one point he lists all of Bumatlarge's posts and accuses him of being scum on quite poor reasoning, he does the same for Pandain although instead asserts that he believes pandain to just be playing innocent green.
3. OpZ - Apart from a post on about page 8 where he jokingly (or opportunistically!) calls Pandain homosexual there is no interaction whatsoever between OpZ and Pandain, it is quite easy to read too much into these things, but I found it odd and telling enough to list.
Suggestion: I would all do the following, firstly go over the thread, even just skim it in like 5mins all the while looking for links based on peoples interaction (or lack of) with Pandain. The above is simply the impression I got on people when I did the same, OpZ is the weakest of my suspicions, Lakris and Infundibulum have more substantial reasoning.
Opz, is actually the person who originally put pandain on trial (I quoted him and did the accusation) so I think he is likely town. BM earlier even says he likes Opz read on pandain being scum.
Now your mentioning of Lakrismamma is actually very interesting, I was PMing with Pandain shortly before his execution trying to see what he would reveal
Me to Pandain
...
The second strange thing is that lakrismamma says "If pandain turns red then the next vote will be about rasta imo." now this could just be bad town play so I don't want to read too much into it but this is great for the mafia.
If you are innocent and die, then they want to lynch me for it getting 2 in 1. It doesn't make sense though, as town I can't ever "KNOW" you are guilty so I could be wrong. Second, I continued Opz's trial request so I was not the originator, Third, even you haven't tried to say I was scum, only defending yourself, so why we he want to forge this link?
So if you are town, help me out and check these two players for any inconsistencies. Maybe look at a previous game and see if they are playing different than before when they were town.
Pandain to Me
I'll look through them..but I'm unsure as to what to do even if I think they're mafia.
I mean...one misylynch...two, we lose. We have to get these right. I'll think long and hard before making a decision, and thankfully this setup allows me to do just that.
Right now I would lean more Hesmyr than lakris, in addition I don't think they would stick both there necks out just to lynch me. Hesmyr because again of the reasoning, and because lakris conceded after I explained my view.
This isn't enough to lynch, but I think we need to recheck his posts, maybe compare thme to previous games and see how he stacks up
Also here is his last post to me, which I think should clear zeks a little, though it doesn't stop him from being a useless inactive townie.
Pandain's Last Words
I actually think we should lynch some inactives for a couple of reasons.
1.Gives mafia too much wiggle room to stay in shadows, gets people talking
2. Aren't contributing at all in this dire situation
3.At the very least, we'll be getting rid of someone who probably didn't even have the time to make an informed decision in the first place.
I'm thinking of voting against zeks, and then moving on to xelin possibly. Your thoughts?
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On September 08 2010 18:33 XeliN wrote:
Going back over the thread with the thrilling knowledge that Pandain was capitalist yields interesting results.
Instead of doing in depth analysis I will simply list them and rely on your discerning natures.
1. Lakrismamma - One of the few people to defend Pandain, and the way he does it is very "lukewarm" typically a tell in my eyes, even at one point publically changes his mind after one post from pandain.
2. Infundibulum - Another who supports Pandain, the nature of his posts are less telling than Lakris's to me but thats speculation, to point out just one clear thing. At one point he lists all of Bumatlarge's posts and accuses him of being scum on quite poor reasoning, he does the same for Pandain although instead asserts that he believes pandain to just be playing innocent green.
3. OpZ - Apart from a post on about page 8 where he jokingly (or opportunistically!) calls Pandain homosexual there is no interaction whatsoever between OpZ and Pandain, it is quite easy to read too much into these things, but I found it odd and telling enough to list.
Suggestion: I would all do the following, firstly go over the thread, even just skim it in like 5mins all the while looking for links based on peoples interaction (or lack of) with Pandain. The above is simply the impression I got on people when I did the same, OpZ is the weakest of my suspicions, Lakris and Infundibulum have more substantial reasoning.
On September 08 2010 10:46 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Look, Pandain could easily be SK. I don't care about that. Pay attention to the argument though. And pay attention to who is attacking him. I went after BumAtLarge because Radfield suspected him, but didn't share too much with me. BM also did not contact me, but BM agreeing with me...That's something...I'm sure he knew something (sorry been at work). Zeks will be a fine lynch. He just showed up to defend himself when his name came up, then went away again.
Guys, stop listening to Hesmyrr. He's pretty worthless.
And LSB attacking Pandain? What?
Like seriously...BUM WAS USELESS SO FAR, so attacking Pandain, when there were EASILY 6 of us who admitted to voting for him (which the Capitalists have no reason to ever do). So obviously we should lynch someone WHO DID NOT PRESS FOR HIS LYNCH. Mafia have no reason to do anything but PM a vote. They do not need to argue whether lynching someone is beneficial or not, just spam their votes onto people. That's more important to take note of with that lynch.
LSB, my FoS is on you now.
I think that Opz quite clearly defended Pandain. I find it weird that you didn't mention that when you so clearly pointed out me and infundi.
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Oh wow awesome job LSB.
Maybe going after inactives is the incorrect play, and the other mafia are posting more actively (probably not quite as actively as Pandain, but still). I think Pandains strategy was the pursue lynching inactives, something town likes to do, because he knew they were town sided inactives. So look at the inactive posters he wants to lynch: zeks and xelin. I'd say its less likely that these guys are capitalists then, even though mafia sometimes like to put one of their own in a list like this to throw off the town. So other inactive posters are still fair game.
I'll stand by my votes. Bum was playing bad, and i thought he was red (blue?). I wasn't around when LSB started running the panda train (i voted when people were talking about the "panda clue"), and if i was, I would have voted for Pandain no question.
Do we want to do an accusation to extend the Day? that's the most immediate thing we need to figure out
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by the way I'm voting "no" on zeks
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support zeks
Pandian pushed his lynch, that gives him kudos points for being loyal.
Although pandian could be trying to kill zeks to gain a pro-soviet reputation, I doubt it.
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i wont put my vote on him, but id really like it if zeks was around mooooore
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The time seems prudent now, an #Accusation against Lakrismamma
I aim for this to be concise and simple so to start, the clue:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 08 2010 12:17 Caller wrote:
Pandain was in the midst of defending himself when suddenly he was shot multiple times by a variety of hand guns, most of which were proud Soviet issued Nagants but a handful of which did not seem Soviet. One of them even sounded like an old 13th Century Hand Cannon.
This suggests one thing, among the people publically supporting the Pandain lynch, at least one of them are capitalist.
Here the most suggestive part for clue making is “One of them even sounded like an old 13th Century Hand Cannon”.
Now look at Lakrismamma’s quotation in his profile “I hear thunder but theres no rain. This type of thunder breaks walls and window panes. ”. Here is where I believe the clue to be linked, my idea being a 13th Century Hand Cannon is exactly the type of “thunder” that might break walls and window panes”
I spent a fairly long time trying to analyse this clue, even spent about 10minutes scanning a Wikipedia article on Cannons and their history but missed this entirely, I did not make the link but it is strong imo, just as strong as the clue that led us to Pandain becoming Deadpan (LOL PUN!)
And now to Lakris’ posting, and as were on the subject of Pandains clue here is the first thing I found telling. This is Lakrismamma’s post immediately after Caller wrote the clue about a mauling panda.
+ Show Spoiler + On September 06 2010 07:21 lakrismamma wrote:
I don't think that we should focus on clues day one. We should analyze posts instead.
Especially when we don't know if there are clues in the game.
Does Caller usually have this?
I think the panda clue was of the type that the mafia would instantly know it reffered to Pandain and would naturally be quite anxious for people not to make the association or, if it came to that, to be able to dismiss it as ambiguous.
Now onto other posts
+ Show Spoiler + On September 07 2010 22:22 lakrismamma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 14:38 Infundibulum wrote:
ugh i keep forgetting to consolidate my thoughts.
The following posters have yet to make an appearance during Day 2:
zeks (most inactive player in the game)
Hesmyrr
lakrismamma
rastaban
You guys all need to start speaking up.
I know it's Labor Day weekend so some people probably have a valid excuse for being afk, but cmon now Fair enough! Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:26 LSB wrote:Only problem with Pandian On September 06 2010 02:50 Pandain wrote:
So here's what I say we do:
We make no accusations, whatsover. We let the NSVD work his way through checking everybody and then go with what he says. However, I'm thinking the NSVD should only claim like maybe after finding 2 scum(maybe even after checking everyone? n.n).
Than we lynch. The only problem I can see is that if there is a mafia role involving killing someone. I already PMed Caller and mafia themselves do not have the ability to kill someone. But roles are hidden so they might very well have a role that can kill people at night.
Either way, waiting at least until this day ends will both help stop an unnecessary death and let us wait until we see if the mafia have any really dangerous roles. Pandain PMed Caller to see if the Mafia have any KP. This means either A) Pandain is mafia and trying to make up some reason that will get us not to think he is mafia B) Pandain is town and was confused I believe Pandain is town he has written useful posts, and that he even asks Caller means that he is more likely town than not. That the town is confused is allright because it is a confusing game and the rules was not clear in the begining. Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 08:51 Divinek wrote:i most definitely support this trial. I always assume if bum is on the evil side im gonna die night one, but i suppose that is less likely when they have a lower kp, and last game he didnt even want me to die . It's weird he pushes for my lynch all the time when he's town but never kills me as mafia. He always posts stupid innocuous posts that dont really say much, but make it look like he's here. Like once a day. But when the fire is on his ass he starts talking up so yes. But for actual reasoning, he acts like the typical confused mafia, and does a little light fanning of flames like lets kill Y! etc ##Accuse BumatLargeI dont think it's too likely we had more than one nkvd... sad times. I agree that bum hasn't been very useful so far (neither have I ) I don't think he has acted very scummy but he is usually more helpful I believe. I think he is a good lynch. What makes me vote yes is this. Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 10:52 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh I apologize for not contributing as much as you pandain. How about we kill myself pandain and divinek. Id be ok with that.
##Accuse Divinek You know better than to accuse someone without a motivation. The thing about not knowing what the color red means is an indication but I think we need more than that. Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 14:05 Divinek wrote:On September 07 2010 13:29 XeliN wrote:
since when am I a safe lynching option? other than being slightly inactive in the early stages.
don't get me wrong im not suggesting there is better candidates but explain why im the "safe" option.
Also pandain why the no PM respond! im reminded of a game where you were a suicide bomber. And now you only start to talk AFTER someone says 'hmm good lynch option' I agree Xelin is acting vey much alike the game when he was the suicide bomber. But lets take one step at the time. It doesent help if we throw too many accusations around at the same time. If bums lynch doesnt go through then I think that Xelin is a decent alternative to prlong the time.
Here the two things to highlight are simple, he supports Pandain being town, and also asserts just enough against Bumatlage in order to justify placing his vote on Bum.
He also plants the seed of me acting like I did when I was a mafia Serial Killer, other than inactivity I can’t see where he makes this connection and it seems to me to idea planting, but that isn’t too relevant, inactivity was a huge aspect of my play in the serial killer game so it’s not too off that he claimed thus.
Later on, when the case against Pandain is becoming stronger he posts this
+ Show Spoiler + On September 08 2010 05:18 lakrismamma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 04:57 rastaban wrote:
Ok I can now talk about the information I didn't want to make public before, it is this. Pandain I want to know everything about your PMs with caller regarding alignments.
I asked and got no response but couldn't confirm that it was just because they hadn't been overlooked (the reason I didn't make it public). It was then asked and confirmed that we can change our votes, so obviously my PM had been read but ignored. I followed up and it was confirmed the Caller wasn't going to tell anything about any roles. I was asking about if the scum had KP roles or innate KP.
Now Pandain claims to have discussed this with Caller. The only way I see this being discussed is if you were scum since you would be asking about your role. Caller isn't going to tell any commies anything since that is the point, we are to figure it out. The fact that Pandain conversed with Caller on these roles makes me believe that he is mafia.
Now pandain, I don't want to lynch you, you are my favorite Mafia Poster because your posting is so much fun, but I really feel that you are mafia this game and it is my job to root them out. This has finally convinced me I will vote for Pandain. If he isn't mafia then at least we get a lot of information. If pandain turns red then the next vote will be about rasta imo. The case against Panda according to me. 1. He pushed for the execution of bum 2. He has not launched any plans which he usually does. 3. The clues could be pointing at him. 4. The assumption that the panda role where mafia. 5. The PMs to caller about the roles I also have to stress that if we don't reach a majority someone needs to make an accusation. I think that Xelin is still a good choice.
Not overly telling in and off itself, but then directly after Pandain responds he posts this:
+ Show Spoiler + On September 08 2010 05:31 lakrismamma wrote:
Ok maybe im beeing easily pursuaded but I will unvote.
This to me is clearly a sign of someone trying to cover themselves, he can claim “I supported the lynch on Pandain and argued why” if Pandain is lynched and revealed to be capitalist whilst at the same time try to avoid that supporting Pandain, saying he will change his vote and perhaps hoping others will follow suit. Mild tendancies in argument can often be a tell in mafia play and IMO Lakris’ posting is an example of it.
I’m of the opinion that simply the strength of the clue (subjective but I believe it is a strong one, or as strong as clues are likely to be in this game) as well as his support of Bum’s lynch and mild way in not committing for or against Pandains lynch are enough in and off themselves for the lynch, but if you go over his posts there are other more subtle things I can find but they are more WIFOMy//more subjective.
And so gentlemen there’s my evidence mingled with my opinion. Blood is that most precious of substances yet in this example I think it ought be spilled.
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And for Zeks just to state I'm against it, Pandain pushed for him and than in itself makes up my mind. At least at this point it would be a mistake in my eyes.
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Do we think Pandain was in contact with mafia...or that his role acted like traitors real role?
If it functioned like Traitor usually functions, then even me defending Pandain would be USELESS to go against me with.
=/
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EPT
