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On January 13 2010 04:49 nemY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 01:10 L wrote:On January 12 2010 16:22 nemY wrote:On January 12 2010 05:10 L wrote:
When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that. You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future  . Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey. You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move. Uhhh, where did I say he was someone I didn't like? I said his play (from a townie's perspective) was dumb. Everyone knew he wasn't medic. Trying to disregard that I was mafia and think like a townie (which is somewhat difficult when you have so much inside information obv) I put Judge from a Vet at best to GF at worst, hence why I pushed for his lynch. Regardless of my role next game, if someone role claims Day 1, I'm going to push for their lynch again.
Generally when you paint someone like that, you probably want to just scrutinize that player. Push at them, but you don't actually want to get them killed, especially since there was literally no gain for Judge in making the claim that he made when he did it. All he wanted was a rolecheck thrown in his direction. I mean, I guess a godfather could be that blatant, but that is just about the riskiest move I could ever think of to try and pull as a godfather. Godfathers are far better served by detectives deciding of their own free will to rolecheck rather than vice versa.
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On January 13 2010 03:43 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 01:10 L wrote:On January 12 2010 16:22 nemY wrote:On January 12 2010 05:10 L wrote:
When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that. You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future . Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey. You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move. Lynching Judge had nothing to do with not liking him, stop making that up. We know he was lying because Day 1 medic claims are almost always a lie or at the very least bad. From a town perspective it made sense to get rid of him. It's that simple. *nods @ Qatol's analysis: I tried to play a laid back, nonforceful role because people bitch and moan when I yell at them. Looking at this game they still bitch and moan though. Guess I just have that effect on people ^_^ *nods @ Dreamflower: yea I forgot to include HoE. I don't think anyone would have believed his post (yay I guessed right) partially because the tone it was posted with wasn't a confirmation but more of a hunch.
I was wondering about that actually, if the new role was deliberate because it was SO out of character for you. Either way, it put you pretty squarely on my radar and you didn't really do anything to take yourself off.
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I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling).
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On January 13 2010 07:46 Malongo wrote:
I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling).
I don't think you did. From what I could tell, you were lynched because you were inactive in comparison to everyone else.
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On January 13 2010 08:02 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 07:46 Malongo wrote:
I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling). I don't think you did. From what I could tell, you were lynched because you were inactive in comparison to everyone else.
yeah but zato-1, lawl was so sure i was making good/bad sides (in fact: yeah bro i was giving you the "good side"). From an outsider perspective this is what i wrote to Ace in pm *brag*brag*:
To: Ace [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: lolololol
Date: 1/9/10 16:14
I had about 2/3 theories about mafia gaming plan. The most solid included a first player going full into my defense once some votes piled on me (i mean not defending me directly but making big notes about how stupid was to lynch me). So i had Ace/MM in that spot. The second guy was one of the flip floppers Chezinu/Scamp with Scamp being the most likely choice (related to a couple of posts on me). Last guy in my carpet was one of the quiet guys (i put nemy on that spot).
The other theories involved more inactive mafia but that was not really likely in a small game (but still possible) or a full crazy mafia with a sacrifice on the judge first move (but again too risky in a small game).
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On January 13 2010 07:46 Malongo wrote:
I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling).
You didn't at all. I was pretty sure you weren't blue, and I couldn't save judge by getting anyone else killed.
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On January 13 2010 04:23 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting. You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed. You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1. That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1.
We never knew his plan, thus we could never know he wanted death. Plus his death would be by like Day 3 or something anyway. In Judge's case, I wanted the confusion and doubt out of the way. As I say, I view lying as a mafia ploy 99% of the time, Judge was the 1% exception.
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On January 13 2010 23:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 04:23 L wrote:On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting. You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed. You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1. That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1. We never knew his plan, thus we could never know he wanted death. Plus his death would be by like Day 3 or something anyway. In Judge's case, I wanted the confusion and doubt out of the way. As I say, I view lying as a mafia ploy 99% of the time, Judge was the 1% exception.
I told you he could be confirmed 100% and also told you there was no way to confirm him using his medic protection or DTs. That would leave him vig hitting someone or being killed as the only methods of confirmation.
Why do you think I kept telling you to think about it?
Also, your 99%/1% scenario is interesting. So far, every day 1 claim has been 100% town BECAUSE of the risk to mafia garnered by our heavy metagaming of claims. While I understand the prophylactic effect on subsequent games, I rather wanted to win this one because I kinda gave up early on the last one and tried to blow myself up.
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On January 14 2010 04:15 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 23:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 13 2010 04:23 L wrote:On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting. You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed. You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1. That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1. We never knew his plan, thus we could never know he wanted death. Plus his death would be by like Day 3 or something anyway. In Judge's case, I wanted the confusion and doubt out of the way. As I say, I view lying as a mafia ploy 99% of the time, Judge was the 1% exception. I told you he could be confirmed 100% and also told you there was no way to confirm him using his medic protection or DTs. That would leave him vig hitting someone or being killed as the only methods of confirmation. Why do you think I kept telling you to think about it? Also, your 99%/1% scenario is interesting. So far, every day 1 claim has been 100% town BECAUSE of the risk to mafia garnered by our heavy metagaming of claims. While I understand the prophylactic effect on subsequent games, I rather wanted to win this one because I kinda gave up early on the last one and tried to blow myself up.
Which, amusingly, didn't happen only because RoL blocked the bomb.
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That game was hilarious in retrospect.
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On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect.
I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol.
That game was just funny.
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lol yeah that game was hilarious. I remember someone saying that the mafia seemed so fucked that the only reason they would stay is if somehow they still had hope from having really good positions.
IE GF coverage on you and Pyrr having been elected.
lol@game
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On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny.
Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper.
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On January 15 2010 07:55 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect. I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny. Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper.
I messaged all of them on Day 1.
I got MSNs for L and Pyrry. Pyrry and I discussed random shit about nothing, except he was running for office. L and I decided he should be GF because Pyrry was getting the office.
Chez PMed me once saying he was alone. Then after someone had apparently claimed to him, I PMed him asking for info and he was like "I can't tell you, you might be mafia"
There was no communication going on at all that game.
Then I got bombed on my birthday. Fuckin' gay lol.
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On January 15 2010 08:24 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2010 07:55 Qatol wrote:On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect. I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny. Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper. I messaged all of them on Day 1. I got MSNs for L and Pyrry. Pyrry and I discussed random shit about nothing, except he was running for office. L and I decided he should be GF because Pyrry was getting the office. Chez PMed me once saying he was alone. Then after someone had apparently claimed to him, I PMed him asking for info and he was like "I can't tell you, you might be mafia" There was no communication going on at all that game. Then I got bombed on my birthday. Fuckin' gay lol.
Now you're making dreamflower feel guilty! She thought you said it was okay!
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On January 15 2010 09:00 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2010 08:24 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 15 2010 07:55 Qatol wrote:On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect. I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny. Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper. I messaged all of them on Day 1. I got MSNs for L and Pyrry. Pyrry and I discussed random shit about nothing, except he was running for office. L and I decided he should be GF because Pyrry was getting the office. Chez PMed me once saying he was alone. Then after someone had apparently claimed to him, I PMed him asking for info and he was like "I can't tell you, you might be mafia" There was no communication going on at all that game. Then I got bombed on my birthday. Fuckin' gay lol. Now you're making dreamflower feel guilty! She thought you said it was okay!
Haha she's not at fault. I blame Ace, actually, for R/Cing me and calling me out as a medic. It seems to be a common pattern:
If there is belief that I am a medic, I am not a medic. LOL.
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On January 15 2010 09:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2010 09:00 Qatol wrote:On January 15 2010 08:24 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 15 2010 07:55 Qatol wrote:On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect. I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny. Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper. I messaged all of them on Day 1. I got MSNs for L and Pyrry. Pyrry and I discussed random shit about nothing, except he was running for office. L and I decided he should be GF because Pyrry was getting the office. Chez PMed me once saying he was alone. Then after someone had apparently claimed to him, I PMed him asking for info and he was like "I can't tell you, you might be mafia" There was no communication going on at all that game. Then I got bombed on my birthday. Fuckin' gay lol. Now you're making dreamflower feel guilty! She thought you said it was okay! Haha she's not at fault. I blame Ace, actually, for R/Cing me and calling me out as a medic. It seems to be a common pattern: If there is belief that I am a medic, I am not a medic. LOL.
Dunno, it got you, a mafia, bombed day 2. Seems like a pretty good move for a pro-town player.
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EPT
