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On January 11 2010 18:29 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 18:15 Vivi57 wrote:The minute Judge claimed Medic I was expecting a town lynch. It was actually the perfect reaction no matter what role I had : any Day 1 claims especially something that can't be proven should be looked at as a Mafia ploy. We've been through this like almost every game but it's impossible to know when the town is thinking straight.
wrong. there's very little to gain from lynching judge at that point
No it's right. We know he's lying. Its no longer even a question of "oh gee why would Mafia do that?!". You don't know what the Mafia knows. You don't know if someone slipped up some info in PMs. It comes down to is this guy lying or not? And townies that lie aren't going to get you very far. This very game showed you that because for all the praise of Judge's plan it didn't even come through.
I immediately told Incognito to make me a Medic and I started accusing Judge. Even with Judge's bad play I was hoping I'd get DT checked. Amazingly I didn't, nor did Judge. This was my alibi for calling Judge out - I knew he was lying not only because it was a dumb move but because I was the real medic.
mistake 2. We agreed that judge would turn up blue whether he was gf medic or vet. We were wrong, but there was still a 100% chance he wouldn't turn up red. We also knew that if you were mafia, you'd be gf so checking you was stupid.
Wrong again. You have NO idea about anything relating to Judge. Nothing. There was no one connected to Judge in any way. All you know is this: Judge claimed Medic on Day 1. Stop trying to make it sound like there was some hidden condition by which Judge had to be innocent. There isn't one. You also didn't know I was GF. This is the same logic that was used last game I was Mafia and look what happened then. Chezinu role claims the next day, and then Zato does right after. This was SWEET for us because no matter what Chez said it wasn't going to stick. I went to bed knowing it was highly possible for chez to die. mistake 3. Going over all the possible scenarios, it was an extremely easy decision to hit mikey then vig chez if necessary. You keep playing under the assumption that killing all claimers is the best way to go about it and that's made you make many mistakes this game. What is this bs? Can you list all the possible scenarios? The only claimer I wanted to kill was Judge. He lied, he had a plan, and it was on a role that couldn't be verified. Whether I'm town or Mafia why in the hell would I want him in a leadership role? So all in all I think we did well considering the town had 0 clue what was going on, and it was Malongo's play and Chez's Ids that got the game sealed away. The town was making mistake after mistake and before this time frame no one was doing anything.
The best players will make you think they played like shit and just get lucky while in reality, they're so many levels ahead of you that you can't begin to comprehend what they're thinking. Your continual cries to lynch the claimer hurt you badly because everyone could ignore you instead of having to respond to constructive play.
Amazing, because the best players this game were 2, possibly even a 3rd person no one would have expected. Don't even try to post drivel like this and make it sound like there was some major mind game going on here. There was no major comprehension that was missing at all this game - everyone was playing screwy and letting things that normally would lead to death, like lying, just go. The site Judge even plays on his this in plain sight. Then again you can just ask other Mafia players on this forum that didn't play but watched this game what they think. Either way I had fun this game but in no way should anyone think Medic claims on Day 1 is some brilliant strategy that only Einstein could come up with - especially when it didn't even help you win.
I followed the game relatively closely from the outside (so I can only give analysis on the thread itself) and can write up my thoughts about the game if anyone is interested. Let me know if anyone cares.
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Yeah, I think it has always been instantly get your info, although I guess just like mafia hits you could argue that the DT's start their investigation and get their results by morning, but I am cool either way. I think it would make DT's weaker and make the DT and the Vigi not able to act at the exact same time like we saw earlier even though these didn't directly effect each other because Zato didn't use any of Chezinu's info.
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On January 12 2010 02:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Yeah, I think it has always been instantly get your info, although I guess just like mafia hits you could argue that the DT's start their investigation and get their results by morning, but I am cool either way. I think it would make DT's weaker and make the DT and the Vigi not able to act at the exact same time like we saw earlier even though these didn't directly effect each other because Zato didn't use any of Chezinu's info.
However, that ability has made a difference in the past. In particular, it mattered when DTs could rolecheck during the day and we got roleclaims right away (usually resulting in Ace dying). When you throw in Vigis or any other way to make night kills, the principle still holds. It's just a gameplay choice.
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Yea Qatol I don't mind your input. Whether you agree with me or not I read your posts anyway ^_^
and for all those who think I'm in the wrong here's another take on the situation:
Lynch All Liars
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On January 12 2010 02:47 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 18:29 Ace wrote:On January 11 2010 18:15 Vivi57 wrote:The minute Judge claimed Medic I was expecting a town lynch. It was actually the perfect reaction no matter what role I had : any Day 1 claims especially something that can't be proven should be looked at as a Mafia ploy. We've been through this like almost every game but it's impossible to know when the town is thinking straight.
wrong. there's very little to gain from lynching judge at that point
No it's right. We know he's lying. Its no longer even a question of "oh gee why would Mafia do that?!". You don't know what the Mafia knows. You don't know if someone slipped up some info in PMs. It comes down to is this guy lying or not? And townies that lie aren't going to get you very far. This very game showed you that because for all the praise of Judge's plan it didn't even come through.
I immediately told Incognito to make me a Medic and I started accusing Judge. Even with Judge's bad play I was hoping I'd get DT checked. Amazingly I didn't, nor did Judge. This was my alibi for calling Judge out - I knew he was lying not only because it was a dumb move but because I was the real medic.
mistake 2. We agreed that judge would turn up blue whether he was gf medic or vet. We were wrong, but there was still a 100% chance he wouldn't turn up red. We also knew that if you were mafia, you'd be gf so checking you was stupid.
Wrong again. You have NO idea about anything relating to Judge. Nothing. There was no one connected to Judge in any way. All you know is this: Judge claimed Medic on Day 1. Stop trying to make it sound like there was some hidden condition by which Judge had to be innocent. There isn't one. You also didn't know I was GF. This is the same logic that was used last game I was Mafia and look what happened then. Chezinu role claims the next day, and then Zato does right after. This was SWEET for us because no matter what Chez said it wasn't going to stick. I went to bed knowing it was highly possible for chez to die. mistake 3. Going over all the possible scenarios, it was an extremely easy decision to hit mikey then vig chez if necessary. You keep playing under the assumption that killing all claimers is the best way to go about it and that's made you make many mistakes this game. What is this bs? Can you list all the possible scenarios? The only claimer I wanted to kill was Judge. He lied, he had a plan, and it was on a role that couldn't be verified. Whether I'm town or Mafia why in the hell would I want him in a leadership role? So all in all I think we did well considering the town had 0 clue what was going on, and it was Malongo's play and Chez's Ids that got the game sealed away. The town was making mistake after mistake and before this time frame no one was doing anything.
The best players will make you think they played like shit and just get lucky while in reality, they're so many levels ahead of you that you can't begin to comprehend what they're thinking. Your continual cries to lynch the claimer hurt you badly because everyone could ignore you instead of having to respond to constructive play.
Amazing, because the best players this game were 2, possibly even a 3rd person no one would have expected. Don't even try to post drivel like this and make it sound like there was some major mind game going on here. There was no major comprehension that was missing at all this game - everyone was playing screwy and letting things that normally would lead to death, like lying, just go. The site Judge even plays on his this in plain sight. Then again you can just ask other Mafia players on this forum that didn't play but watched this game what they think. Either way I had fun this game but in no way should anyone think Medic claims on Day 1 is some brilliant strategy that only Einstein could come up with - especially when it didn't even help you win. I followed the game relatively closely from the outside (so I can only give analysis on the thread itself) and can write up my thoughts about the game if anyone is interested. Let me know if anyone cares.
I'd love to hear your viewpoint on the game.
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Seconded on hearing Qatol's point of view.
In my opinion it wasn't too difficult to find Mikey, Ace, and Nemy this game.
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Yeah, that's typically why you don't want to have every mafia member agreeing with each other and voting similarly and producing no content and starting fights.
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We agreed with each other? when?
MM and nemy weren't even starting fights so I don't know where you got that from.
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When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that.
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You have to remember when I pushed for Chez's lynch MM was just being put into the limelight. It was a tie vote with no discussion going on and then I missed the rest of the game.
nemy played it solid. It made no sense to not push to lynch the claimer because it was the most pro-town play at the moment. Either way you never saw any of us going around agreeing with each other on everything all game. Remember from the outside looking in we all came off as pro-town so it doesn't even matter if you get a feeling we agreed.
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On January 12 2010 04:15 Ace wrote:Yea Qatol I don't mind your input. Whether you agree with me or not I read your posts anyway ^_^ and for all those who think I'm in the wrong here's another take on the situation: Lynch All Liars
Liar!
On May 01 2009 14:05 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2009 13:49 Qatol wrote:
I didn't want to post this right now because talking about me is unimportant to night actions. However, you just won't let the issue go. Ace, for the last time
1. VERSATILE CALLED YOU OUT
2. SHE FLIPPED BLUE
3. SHE KNOWS YOU BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THIS GAME
4. THEREFORE YOU ARE A SUSPECT
How hard is that to understand?
Um...Versatile has never been able to catch my playing style. How can you go off of that bs info like that guarantees I'm mafia? So someone says "hey I know how this guy plays, I think he's mafia", then dies flips innocent and then we all go OH SHIT THEY WERE RIGHT!? No. Mafia doesn't work like that. Versatile's death has no bearings on my status because ding - she can't possibly know my role because she wasn't a DT. This post right here just cements you as guilty. The town doesn't learn anything from Versatile's death - why? Because she is connected with no one. We actually learned more about you because you vote switched to try and appear siding with the town. Hi, Mr. Mafia want some pie? as for the rest - tl;dr. I'm also no longer responding to posts that try to make something out that isn't there. Ace's list of people who are invisible posters... Qatol (he's mafia, I don't talk to mafia people)
In all seriousness, I'll write something up in a few hours when I get home and have access to the logs of my conversations with Ver, just to make sure I don't forget anything.
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It made no sense to not push to lynch the claimer because it was the most pro-town play at the moment. Wrong. I don't even see how you can say this with a straight face. If Chez was a DT: free kill. If Chez was mafia, we vig hit him the same night. The only reason you'd hit chez first is because you want to kill the DT as mafia.
I mean, this was pretty transperant, check the vote list.
The reason we've used 'lynch the claimer' in the past was because we had large underground confirmed townie groups in certain games and we wanted to dissuade mafia from faking DT. That simply doesn't apply here; mafia can't trade 1 for 1 starting on day 2 and hope to succeed.
Remember from the outside looking in we all came off as pro-town so it doesn't even matter if you get a feeling we agreed. No, you didn't look pro town. Why do you think you three were chain killed? Magic? Clairvoyance?
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On January 12 2010 05:52 L wrote:Show nested quote + It made no sense to not push to lynch the claimer because it was the most pro-town play at the moment. Wrong. I don't even see how you can say this with a straight face. If Chez was a DT: free kill. If Chez was mafia, we vig hit him the same night. The only reason you'd hit chez first is because you want to kill the DT as mafia. I mean, this was pretty transperant, check the vote list. The reason we've used 'lynch the claimer' in the past was because we had large underground confirmed townie groups in certain games and we wanted to dissuade mafia from faking DT. That simply doesn't apply here; mafia can't trade 1 for 1 starting on day 2 and hope to succeed.
I thought we were talking about Judge here?
We use lynch the claimer all the time when the claimer can't be confirmed (almost always on Day 1) because it dissuades Mafia from claiming on Day 1. It's a general metagame strategy that you'll find everywhere.
Show nested quote +Remember from the outside looking in we all came off as pro-town so it doesn't even matter if you get a feeling we agreed. No, you didn't look pro town. Why do you think you three were chain killed? Magic? Clairvoyance?
We did look Pro-town. If we didn't how come none of you pinned us on Day 2 with the exception of Chez and Zato? Oh right, all those "this game is weird, the town seems lost, wtf is going on" references clearly made it obvious we were easily spotted. Right.
Amazing how after the game everyone seems to say they were right all along but during the game barely any of you could get anything going. How about you just give Chez, Zato and Malongo the credit for winning the game? If we were so easily Mafia looking you should have had us Vigi'd on Night 1 but instead you sitting there asking for RoL to be lynched. You were just as lost as the rest of the town.
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Ace babbling is hilarious.
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Judge trying to implement plans the very site he plays on says is bad is really hilarious.
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On January 12 2010 06:48 Ace wrote:
Judge trying to implement plans the very site he plays on says is bad is really hilarious.
Mmm.. where did you see that? Yes, some players disagreed with the plans. Of course I do more than read the threads there - I talk to a number of the better players there - this was one of my conversations as soon as I knew this game was going down.
BTW - that site doesn't have broken games with no way to keep PRs in check. So that's why someone disapproved of it there, it's not nearly as powerful. There's no open communication, so no funneling roles, and half the time they don't have medic/dt combos because it is such a broken setup (but it's ok, I understand how shitty you are and you need to rely on it to actually look competent.)
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On January 12 2010 06:17 Ace wrote:
How about you just give Chez, Zato and Malongo the credit for winning the game? If we were so easily Mafia looking you should have had us Vigi'd on Night 1 but instead you sitting there asking for RoL to be lynched. You were just as lost as the rest of the town.
From the perspective of another outsider (much more casual than Qatol, who has both too much and not enough time on his hands  ), I think Heavonearth did pretty well too. That list of players he posted on Day One correctly identified 2 out of 3 Mafia, which is impressive. Granted, his reasoning was mostly circumstantial and I partially suspect he posted it just to goad activity and responses, 0cz3c/Ver-style, rather than out of sincere, well-founded convictions. Still, I imagine that list was what got him killed.
Apropos, I thought it was strange that not many people seemed to go back and read Heavonearth's posts after he died, considering how many people agreed that Heavonearth was an unusual target for the Mafia. I remember L did say (in all caps) that people should go back and study Heavonearth's posts, and Scamp actually compiled all of Heavonearth's posts together. But I guess no one noticed the list or took it seriously. Still, I think Heavonearth deserves credit for spotting 2 Mafia so early, however he did it.
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But I guess no one noticed the list or took it seriously. That's not really true.
The game kinda didn't require us to do any forceful pinning work as town because the moment day 2 rolled around, all our lynches were set. I was going to push to have Ace and RoL killed, then Zato's like "lol i'll kill him for you", then chez ends the game.
It was more of an issue of no one needing to promote the list to get the kills we wanted.
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I guess the biggest question is: why did Chez pick Mikey and Nemy to check?
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On January 12 2010 11:02 Scamp wrote:
I guess the biggest question is: why did Chez pick Mikey and Nemy to check?
They must've looked the most suspicious from his research, which included their posts in the main thread plus his role fishing PMs.
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EPT
