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![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
Intro:
Welcome to the firstsecond mini mafia game. While the objectives of the game are the same as those of the larger games previously hosted on here on TL.net, the setup of this game will be slightly different. As usual, the game will alternate between the day cycle, where the town will be able to discuss and vote to lynch one member of the town, and the night cycle, where the mafia will get to decide which player to kill. Also, all blue roles with night actions may act via PM during the night cycle only. A mafia player count greater than or equal to the innocent player count results in a mafia win, while the elimination of all mafia players results in a town win. If neither of these conditions are met, the day/night cycle continues as usual.
What is different about this game? Well, for one, mafia operate on 1 KP rules. This means that mafia get 1 KP per night throughout the game regardless of the number of mafia alive. Secondly, the voting rules have been slightly altered. If at any point a single player has the majority of votes, the day will end whether we have reached the time limit for the day cycle. Therefore, a day might be cut short if the town reaches a consensus quickly. Thirdly, all tie votes end with a no lynch. There is no tiebreaker in this game. Finally, the role setup is hidden. I will post a list of the possible roles that are in the game. Each role may or may not be used in the game setup. However mafia number will stay consistent at 3 for an 11 player game.
Rules: (Subject to change, please check frequently, although I will post if a rule change has been made).
Voting:
1. You must post your vote in the separate voting thread in bold.
2. Votes should be made in this format:
I vote for (insert player name here)
3. You can not autochange your vote to the losing or winning bandwagon.
4. You may abstain, but must let me know: ie: "I abstain from voting".
5. If the final vote count shows a tie between the top two candidates, the day ends with a no lynch.
6. You may vote for a no lynch. If a majority of the people vote for a no lynch, the day ends without anyone's death.
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to) the following and will get you banned from future games:
1. Creating or using an alternate ("smurf") account to play/post in this game. Players are getting very sick of this. Don't do it to have two characters in the game. Don't do it to post/PM anonymously. Don't do it for anything.
2. Posting after death. One polite goodbye post is acceptable but please do not post anything which could POSSIBLY affect the game.
3. Betraying your role and ruining the game for everyone by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
4. Logging on to someone else's account / checking their PMs / looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
5. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
6. Posting screenshots of your inbox. This is not a photoshop competition.
7. No post editing. Do not do it for any reason.
Clues:
There are no clues. So don't look for them.
Time cycle:
Day/Night cycle will be 48/24 hours, subject to change.
Ban List:
A banlist will be used at mod's discretion.
Modkills:
Hopefully I don't have to. However, if you miss more than one vote, you will be modkilled. (You may still abstain if you wish, and this won't count against you). This is a short game, so if you don't think you can actively participate, don't join please. There will (hopefully) be plenty small games in the future.
Credits:
Chuiu, Ace, Tracil, Caller, BloodyC0bbler, Qatol, LTT, Pyrrhuloxia, and Plexa for taking the time to run mafia games for us. Also to Chuiu for the TL Mafia banner.
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Roles:
All Roles with night actions may act at any day. There is no night 2 restriction for vigis.
Remember, all role counts are hidden. So just because a role is listed here does not mean it is necessarily in the game!
Town Aligned Roles
Townie:
You have no special powers other than the ability to vote. But you are necessary for a town victory! So help purify the town and be active!
Detective:
You have the ability to ask for the role of a specific player. You may only use your ability once per night and you may only act at night. However, you may use your ability every night.
Medic:
You have the ability to prevent one hit on a player of your choice during the night. As 1 KP rules apply, mafia cannot kill the person you choose to protect. However, neither you nor the person you have protected will be notified if you have made a successful save. If you protect a veteran, your ability overrides the veteran's extra life. You are allowed to protect yourself if you so choose.
Vigilante:
You may, only once during the game, kill a player of your choice during the night. If your hit overlaps with mafia, your hit will be canceled and you will be able to use your hit at any future night.
Veteran:
You've been around the block a few times and know how to escape an attack on your life. You have an additional night life, which means that you must be hit twice in order to die (these two hits may either be both mafia hits or a mafia and a vigilante hit). You will also know if your extra life has been activated. If you are being protected by a medic, the medic's ability will override yours.
Mafia Aligned Roles
Mafia:
Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in the mafia. You may choose to kill nobody if you so choose. You MAY kill other mafia. As a whole, your KP is 1 throughout the whole game, so choose wisely! The mafia also must choose the Godfather from among themselves. If they do not choose by night 1, I will randomly choose for you.
Godfather:
You are the head of the mafia, and when role checked, will show up as any role of your choice. You must choose before Day 1 is over, otherwise I will randomly choose for you.
Player List:
1. RebirthOfLeGend
2. Ace (Godfather)
3. L
4. vx70GTOJudgexv
5. Scamp
6. Zato-1
7. Chezinu
8. nemY
9. HeavOnEarth
10. Vivi57
11. ketomai
12. Mikeymoo
13. Malongo
7 of 12 players remain
? of ? Detectives remain
? of ? Medics remain
? of ? Vigilante remain
? of ? Veterans remain
1 of 3 Mafia remain (this includes the Godfather)
0 of 1 Godfather remains
6 of 9 Townies remain (This includes all town-aligned players)
Role PM Examples:
+ Show Spoiler +Welcome to Mini Mafia II! Your role is: TowniePM Incognito if you have any questions about your role. Welcome to Mini Mafia II! Your role is: DetectivePM Incognito if you have any questions about your role. Welcome to Mini Mafia II! Your role is: MedicPM Incognito if you have any questions about your role. Welcome to Mini Mafia II! Your role is: VigilantePM Incognito if you have any questions about your role. Welcome to Mini Mafia II! Your role is: VeteranPM Incognito if you have any questions about your role. Welcome to Mini Mafia II! Your role is: MafiaYour team consists of: 1. Ver2. Incognito3. ChuiuPM Incognito if you have any questions about your role.
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Signups start here. The game starts as soon as we reach 11 players. RoL if you could kindly confirm that your other post was indeed a definitive signup.
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I am in if you make me Manuel L. Hackson.
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On November 11 2009 12:03 L wrote:
I am in if you make me Manuel L. Hackson.
Sorry, no Manuel L. Hackson role. Still want in?
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sure I'll play this setup
*puffs cigar*
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On November 11 2009 12:03 L wrote:
I am in if you make me Manuel L. Hackson.
lo fuckin' L
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On November 11 2009 12:05 Incognito wrote:Sorry, no Manuel L. Hackson role. Still want in?
Sure why not.
(I see you are hiding the Manuel L. Hackson role until we start. Smart move: those other chumps won't know what hit them when we get going, right?)
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On November 11 2009 14:57 L wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2009 12:05 Incognito wrote:On November 11 2009 12:03 L wrote:
I am in if you make me Manuel L. Hackson. Sorry, no Manuel L. Hackson role. Still want in? Sure why not. (I see you are hiding the Manuel L. Hackson role until we start. Smart move: those other chumps won't know what hit them when we get going, right?)
+ Show Spoiler +
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I was debating whether or not saying Hanuel L. Mackson was stupid. It kinda works.
Oh and I'll do this.
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No more signups? 
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On November 13 2009 22:56 Camlito wrote:
O_O 11 Players
ya join it will be fast and fun.
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I'm a clue-getter, i'm not much of an analyzer.
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This would be so awesome right now because there's pretty much no Starcraft for the whole week.
Or I could, y'know, do homework.
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I'm willing to be in this game.
incognito, guess who I am and get a prize!
+ Show Spoiler +if you guess it wrong, you are an idiot 
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On November 22 2009 19:46 Ray Frost wrote:I'm willing to be in this game. incognito, guess who I am and get a prize! + Show Spoiler +if you guess it wrong, you are an idiot
By putting your name up on the list am I already an idiot?
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AFAIK, this is a different Incognito, Ray, but not 100% sure.
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awwww, it's not the same incognito? it's not not rex?
nevermind, then.
edit - I'm not /in, just to clarify
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You don't want to play
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Game would go by too quickly for me. I live in Japan =/ everybody'd consider me a lurker, etc, etc, etc.
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hmmm when is this supposed to start?
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On November 25 2009 12:04 Ace wrote:
hmmm when is this supposed to start?
As soon as we get enough players? I'll try to send out some pms after this holiday weekend.
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cool. I'm just ready to play another small game.
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Ace, can you get back to rating people so that we have flamebait to keep the forums interesting? Thx.
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Ya srsly, do you want our secret forum to DIE?
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On November 27 2009 13:59 L wrote:
Ace, can you get back to rating people so that we have flamebait to keep the forums interesting? Thx.
uhhh who do I need to rate now?
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On December 05 2009 07:38 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 13:59 L wrote:
Ace, can you get back to rating people so that we have flamebait to keep the forums interesting? Thx. uhhh who do I need to rate now?
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oh, this hasn't started yet?
I'll play if we don't start till tuesday (finals)
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I'll play but I'm a newbie, saying that now.
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Ok so now we have 11 players. Since it has been a long time since signups began, could everyone who is playing please pm me to indicate that you are still interested in the game? Thanks.
The game begins tomorrow (Tuesday, Dec. 8) at 5:00 PST provided that everyone confirms by then.
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On December 08 2009 08:59 Incognito wrote:
Ok so now we have 11 players. Since it has been a long time since signups began, could everyone who is playing please pm me to indicate that you are still interested in the game? Thanks.
The game begins tomorrow (Tuesday, Dec. 8) at 5:00 PST provided that everyone confirms by then.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
wait for finals to finish, homeboy.
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On December 08 2009 11:03 L wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 08:59 Incognito wrote:
Ok so now we have 11 players. Since it has been a long time since signups began, could everyone who is playing please pm me to indicate that you are still interested in the game? Thanks.
The game begins tomorrow (Tuesday, Dec. 8) at 5:00 PST provided that everyone confirms by then. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wait for finals to finish, homeboy.
when would that be?
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It's 16th for me, I think if you skip the week after this one then everyone will probably be done.
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17th for me. And I'm still down like Chinatown, dawg.
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16th onwards would be great by me, as well :p
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So we're going to start this game next weekish? Is that when this shit gets fucked up?
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I guess consensus says so. Although I am gone for a week over the break. Let me see what I'm going to do about that.
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On December 08 2009 14:17 ketomai wrote:
It's 16th for me, I think if you skip the week after this one then everyone will probably be done.
same
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lol fail
I'm skiing from saturday (19th?) to christmas eve, how about after christmas?
if you do start that week, just knock me off the list since i'd miss half the game
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Awesome, this game is looking up.
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Hmm looks like it might just be easier to postpone this till after the new year.
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Ok I am planning to start the game after the holidays on January 3. If anyone objects post here.
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Who will play my insane game without your sane game to counterbalance it?...oh well..
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BTW, I have an issue with voting rule #3.
With that in place, town has to wait for deadline to force a lynch on a player, and alternatively, if someone puts a player at one vote until lynch very quickly, other players can't pull their vote off to extend the day if they don't feel the town is ready, or if they suspect that mafia is going to sweep in and hammer that player.
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I'm in. Got to review the rules. Will post if I see anything I don't like.
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Aand one more vote issue:
Vote rule #4 - Self-voting can be useful in a few occasions for both town and mafia. Again, it really takes an element away if that's not allowed.
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Canada7170 Posts
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Judge I don't really have a problem with the two rules, you just need to adjust to them. For instance, if you want to put your vote on someone early but don't want to end the day early you could just say your vote is on someone but you don't want to end the day early, or something to that effect. Make it crystal clear that your vote is there even though it's not technically there. Or give a FOS. Or whatever.
I really can't think of a situation where a self-vote is needed. Can you help me out here?
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you should allow self voting 
edit: yea listen to judges reasons for voting. I agree with both of them.
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Yeah, its pretty fucking annoying to have to stay up until 3 am in order to vote properly in half of the games.
Anyways, sup.
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On January 05 2010 10:01 Ace wrote:you should allow self voting edit: yea listen to judges reasons for voting. I agree with both of them.
Um ok I get rule four, but did you mean to remove 7 not 3? Because from the description it seems like rule 7 is the one that is discussed but you mentioned 3.
Just waiting for nemY and ketomai now.
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On January 05 2010 07:44 Scamp wrote:
I really can't think of a situation where a self-vote is needed. Can you help me out here?
Sure!
I'm going to assume only one killing party in these 2 situations.
It's a 9 player game. Town has lynched one scum player so far, and there has been a lynch/night-kill combination every day/night. Day 4 is headed into LYLO (lynch-or-lose) where they must lynch scum. On Day 3, the lynch is going to be a town player who knows he can't sway the opinions, but he also knows that the scum player is going to have to work to get a win in Day 4 (whether there are two really strong pro-town players or a few players onto his case) and that the player is going to need as much time as possible to figure out his night action. If the player waits till the deadline, that is more time for the scum player. But if he self-hammers and lynches himself, it cuts the scum players time short.
Alternatively, on Day 3 with no scum lynches and a lynch/night-kill combination every night, a scum player is about to be lynched, but town is content to sit on his lynch until the deadline because they have no leads for his partner. Scum player can self-hammer to cut town planning time short and give their teammate a better shot going into D4's lylo situation.
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On January 05 2010 10:24 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 10:01 Ace wrote:you should allow self voting edit: yea listen to judges reasons for voting. I agree with both of them. Um ok I get rule four, but did you mean to remove 7 not 3? Because from the description it seems like rule 7 is the one that is discussed but you mentioned 3. Just waiting for nemY and ketomai now.
The reason I included rule #3:
Rule #3 states:
You can not autochange your vote to the losing or winning bandwagon.
If my vote is on Ace, but L is the leading lynch candidate and a single vote from being lynched, and we want to end the day because a cop investigation came forth confirming Ace as an innocent and we feel L's partner (we've found L conclusively scummy) would have too much time with a full deadline, I can't switch my vote to L according to this.
e: I'm all for KEEPING rule #7. I'm for REMOVING rule #3 to allow bandwagon hopping - it can be a big scumtell, actually.
e2: Judge plays way too much mafia to be good for his health. I was just in 5 games at the same time X_X
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On January 05 2010 14:09 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 10:24 Incognito wrote:On January 05 2010 10:01 Ace wrote:you should allow self voting edit: yea listen to judges reasons for voting. I agree with both of them. Um ok I get rule four, but did you mean to remove 7 not 3? Because from the description it seems like rule 7 is the one that is discussed but you mentioned 3. Just waiting for nemY and ketomai now. The reason I included rule #3: Show nested quote +Rule #3 states:
You can not autochange your vote to the losing or winning bandwagon. If my vote is on Ace, but L is the leading lynch candidate and a single vote from being lynched, and we want to end the day because a cop investigation came forth confirming Ace as an innocent and we feel L's partner (we've found L conclusively scummy) would have too much time with a full deadline, I can't switch my vote to L according to this. e: I'm all for KEEPING rule #7. I'm for REMOVING rule #3 to allow bandwagon hopping - it can be a big scumtell, actually. e2: Judge plays way too much mafia to be good for his health. I was just in 5 games at the same time X_X
Uh...why wouldn't you be able to switch to L? First off, this rule has been used on TL mafia forever as far as I remember, but I never heard someone think it meant no bandwagon hopping (which has happened plenty of times). I always thought this rule meant no editing your vote after the deadline is over to whoever won/lost to make you look less suspicious.
Like L and Ace are both strong lynch candidates, and L is mafia, so L's teammate votes for Ace but after Ace flips blue, L's teammate edits his vote to say "I vote for L" so he doesn't get picked on after . Which is fishy. But I guess you could argue that its legal since you can lie all you want in the game? I always thought this was just in there to stop people from doing that.
But reading L's response I'm going to remove rule 7 to keep day/night cycles of equal length. Unless of course everyone is opposed. But I doubt that. I think I just added that rule for the short 20min cycle game to speed it up a bit if there was a consensus.
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Oh sorry guys, I'm down for this.
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Day 1
It was a cold January night. Ver scanned the plaza, slowly sipping his coffee, which by now was quite cold. Noticing a man carrying a briefcase walk out of the courthouse nearby, Ver slowly began to stand up. But Qatol immediately recognized the threat and tried to duck and shield himself with his briefcase. Smiling, Ver looked up at the window above where two men stood with a giant vat of coffee. The steaming hot liquid poured out of the sixth story window above, shocking the bewildered Qatol, who expected to hear a gunshot. His cries of agony were quickly silenced by the coffee maker that also descended from the sixth story window, crushing his skull.
Now that Qatol was gone, Ver was confident that he would be able to win the lawsuit and drive his competitors out of business. Unfortunately, however, the animal activists didn't like the way his corporation was treating the chickens either. Walking back to his apartment, Ver found himself under attack by an aggressive animal activist, who waved a mutilated bloody chicken through the air. Ver reacted quickly and pulled out his gun, shooting Incognito through the chest twice before the chicken slammed down his throat head first, ending his plans to dominate the chicken industry.
On the other side of town, ketomai raced the engine, panting loudly as he fled the town for reasons unknown to anyone but himself. The police are still investigating the reason for his swift disappearance. More news will come in the next few days.
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Day 1 voting starts now. Please vote in the thread located here. You have 48 hours until the night post. Remember the game has no clues.
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Dear morans.
There's nearly nothing to talk about on the first day if no one talks, and we have no mayoral business to vote for.
Because of this, and because I like making people post stupid garbage, I propose we go round table and each say who we want to off day one.
So far, I've done around 5 minutes of thinking and I'm going to sleep directly after I type this post, so this won't be pretty or eloquent, but here's what I'm thinking so far.
1. RebirthOfLeGend
2. Ace
3. L
4. vx70GTOJudgexv
5. Scamp
6. Zato-1
7. Chezinu
8. nemY
9. HeavOnEarth
10. Vivi57
11. ketomai
12. Mikeymoo
13. Malongo
1) I normally get Ace killed really early. Its largely a barrel of fun and heaps of awesome. I doubt that Ace and I are on the same team because of the roster and the format, so he's probably red from where I'm standing. That said, Ace is probably the only person i'd be able to trust to not play like a sack of dimebags, so if he does turn out to be blue (which seems to be a trend when i kill him), the game would kinda end unless mafia were morans.
2) I hate vivi. RoL's dumb. Chezinu is a gigantic waste of a player, regardless of which side he's on, and nemy hasn't played in a while, and played somewhat subpar last game we were in due to inactivity. Granted that these are all easy "dumb" targets, I'll be extra risk and not pick any of them to see how people react.
3) Of the remaining players, we have Malongo, Mikey, ketomai, heavon, zato, scamp and judge. Scamp and Heavon typically do not post often, so this is the first and last "do shit in the thread or I'm going to push to get you killed warning". Malongo is an above average player, and I honestly don't remember anything about mikey or ketomai. Judge is very good in this type of format. Zato's a bit above average too.
$) so what does that mean? It means fucking nothing. This format sucks balls day one, but I'd go with Malongo as my day 1 pick. He's good enough to be placed with mafia as their 'strong' player, but if he dies and flips town, I'll (maybe Ace or Judge too, normally i die night 2 anyways) probably die during the night which leaves both Ace and Judge up. Granted that I assume Incog wouldn't put them both as mafia (because that would be a bit fucked), so at least 1 top tier player is still in the mix even if we miss doc protection and hit incorrectly
%) Alternate plan is to kill people who we know are fucking useless and who won't 'fuck up' because they're so fucking inactive. If that's the case, i'd hit nemY first. Not that I hate the guy or anything, but there's some weird fucking 'stupid' sympathy which keeps vivi alive when I try to get him killed and I'm kinda hoping Chezinu doesn't do his standard stupid shit. If he does, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to start killing him day 1-2 in every game he joins until he stops being a moron.
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I say we kill scamp. He'll post so little that his role won't be too transparent and we'll be forced to kill him for inactivity without gaining new information. This also helps to enforce that mafia must post or they'll be killed for inactivity.
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Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches make for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A MEDIC.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start this game off.
Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done. That will come on Day 2, but I can be. Second, it allows me to work in the open and play with mafia's head. I can make my own list towards the end of each day and force mafia to play a guessing game as to who on the list I will protect, if I will actually protect anyone from that list, or if it is worth it to try and kill me and will I protect myself.
2) As stated above, it will throw a major wrench into the mafias night-actions. They will not know if they are safe to try and kill me, or one of my targets. They don't know if there are other medics either who can protect me and/or my targets.
3) Mafia is now going to push to get me killed, either very boldly or subtly, via a lynch. This will give us a pool to work with of potential suspects.
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EBWOP: "Why?" meant to say "Why did I do this?"
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Okay well I am too lazy to read tonight too much.
On January 05 2010 16:52 Vivi57 wrote:
I say we kill scamp. He'll post so little that his role won't be too transparent and we'll be forced to kill him for inactivity without gaining new information. This also helps to enforce that mafia must post or they'll be killed for inactivity.
Just for the record. Can we wait to see who the fuck is actually inactive before deciding who we are going to kill for inactivity?
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Just for the record. Can we wait to see who the fuck is actually inactive before deciding who we are going to kill for inactivity?
Word. I actually plan to play this game through.
I'm really surprised it was Vivi who first said to kill me and not L, considering how often I seem to get L killed.
Also isn't NemY the one that's supposed to claim medic on day one? Last time this happened the town got in a major BS argument day 1 and then won when our mafia leader ragequit because Vivi logged in 2 minutes late.
Oh wait he claimed detective. Maybe this will turn out better.
I guess the evidence points to killing Vivi.
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On January 05 2010 16:52 Vivi57 wrote:
I say we kill scamp. He'll post so little that his role won't be too transparent and we'll be forced to kill him for inactivity without gaining new information. This also helps to enforce that mafia must post or they'll be killed for inactivity.
Hm. Scamp doesn't post much, but what he does post is usually telling, in my experience.
Since all we have on day 1 for choosing a Lynch target is behavioral analysis, I'd rather go after the people who are 'immune' to behavioral analysis. And by this, I mean Chezinu. Usually, all he posts are random references to 'Ace' and 'Brown', and his comments are completely unrelated to the game, its players, its roles, suggested courses of action, etc. That is, in fact, a valid mafia strategy- say a lot of shit so people don't peg you down for being inactive, but never commit to saying something relevant so that you won't be called out for something you said. As it is, the only way for the Town to ever determine his role directly will be through a DT, which I'd rather use on some other big-name players instead (L, Ace).
Leaning: Lynch Chezinu
Then, there's the matter of our other night roles: DTs, Medics, Vigis.
DTs should definitely check out the big-name players. For me, these are: Ace, L. They're basically a big boon in terms of post quality, behavioral analysis and Town leadership if they're Townies, so it's a good idea to see whether we should be rallying around them early or not. And if they're mafia... we'll want them lynched ASAP. Oh, and do remember the Godfather won't show up as mafia in a RC; if a RC comes up Red, the DT knows with 100% certainty that player's mafia. If it doesn't come up red, the DT does not know with 100% certainty whether that player's mafia or not.
Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime.
On a final note:
Player list seems to be 12 people long. Are there 12 of us? If so, please fix the "11 of 11 players remain" on the OP. Also, if there's 12 players, how many mafia and how many townies are there? The OP suggests 8 townies and 3 mafia, but that adds up to 11.
Also, is role revealed after death, or merely which side you're on?
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On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote:
I guess the evidence points to killing Vivi.
What evidence are you talking about? If it's, "He accused me so I'll accuse him", that's not valid in my book- it leads to Town infighting most of the time, which benefits none but the mafia.
If you get accused / suggested for lynching, it's just that. Defend yourself; if we deem you to be innocent / not worth lynching, you'll live. Otherwise, you'll die. Starting a public flame war with another player is not the correct reaction to being suggested for lynching.
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Relax. It wasn't a serious argument. I'm not worried about Vivi's suggestion at all.
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On January 05 2010 15:39 L wrote:
Dear morans.
There's nearly nothing to talk about on the first day if no one talks, and we have no mayoral business to vote for.
Because of this, and because I like making people post stupid garbage, I propose we go round table and each say who we want to off day one.
So far, I've done around 5 minutes of thinking and I'm going to sleep directly after I type this post, so this won't be pretty or eloquent, but here's what I'm thinking so far.
1. RebirthOfLeGend
2. Ace
3. L
4. vx70GTOJudgexv
5. Scamp
6. Zato-1
7. Chezinu
8. nemY
9. HeavOnEarth
10. Vivi57
11. ketomai
12. Mikeymoo
13. Malongo
2) I hate vivi. RoL's dumb. Chezinu is a gigantic waste of a player, regardless of which side he's on, and nemy hasn't played in a while, and played somewhat subpar last game we were in due to inactivity. Granted that these are all easy "dumb" targets, I'll be extra risk and not pick any of them to see how people react.
%) Alternate plan is to kill people who we know are fucking useless and who won't 'fuck up' because they're so fucking inactive. If that's the case, i'd hit nemY first. Not that I hate the guy or anything, but there's some weird fucking 'stupid' sympathy which keeps vivi alive when I try to get him killed and I'm kinda hoping Chezinu doesn't do his standard stupid shit. If he does, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to start killing him day 1-2 in every game he joins until he stops being a moron.
I agree that killing useless players is always a sound strategy when there isn't a better idea. Of course with the what, 15 or so mafia games played so far that list isn't exactly hard to populate at the moment:
1.) vivi57
2.) nemy
3.) RebirthofLegend
And if any of you remember last game with the huge fuck ups of 3 players in particular the prime candidate for most detrimental to the town is RoL. He doesn't read and is a sheep. He's easily influenced and lets his emotions get to him and rarely if ever helps the town. Last game he didn't even realize he was being manipulated until the very end.
Vivi57 and nemy, well you guys already know how terrible both of them are. It's just that RoL is far worse than either of them.
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blue yet again!
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On January 05 2010 17:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches make for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A MEDIC.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start this game off.
Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done. That will come on Day 2, but I can be. Second, it allows me to work in the open and play with mafia's head. I can make my own list towards the end of each day and force mafia to play a guessing game as to who on the list I will protect, if I will actually protect anyone from that list, or if it is worth it to try and kill me and will I protect myself.
2) As stated above, it will throw a major wrench into the mafias night-actions. They will not know if they are safe to try and kill me, or one of my targets. They don't know if there are other medics either who can protect me and/or my targets.
3) Mafia is now going to push to get me killed, either very boldly or subtly, via a lynch. This will give us a pool to work with of potential suspects.
Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this.
If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him.
You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers.
Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well.
Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it.
So we have 2 topics of interest now:
1) Medic claim
2) Who y'all wanna kill
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I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics?
This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format.
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I personally don't see the point of Judge's claim either. It sounds to me like he's trying something out for the sake of seeing how it goes. He did mention playing 5 mafia games at once before the game started. Let's look at his points.
1) The mafia have to play a guessing game anyway, it's just that now they know who they're guessing against. I suppose now they KNOW they're playing this game rather than knowing whether or not the game exists at all, but I don't see how that helps the town. I agree with Ace that it is extremely unlikely that there would be more than one medic in this game. If there were the mafia would have to get some powers to make up for it, and we know that's not the case.
I also noticed that the medic can protect himself. That is an exceptionally powerful weapon in my opinion, and another reason why there's unlikely to be two medics in the game. As mafia, Judge could be banking on the idea that there aren't any medics in the game and using this play to waste town resources.
I am interested in this list he'd put out, especially for day 1. It kind of sounds like a hit list though. "HEY MAFIA! KILL THESE! I DARE YOU!!!"
2) I really don't see how this is different with or without a list. There are always good and bad candidates for night-killing and those factors are always influenced by the power roles. A list kind of gives the mafia a guide, in your opinion anyway, as to who is the most trusted in the town. I'm really not seeing this major wrench.
3) They might do that. That'd be pretty ballsy considering that's exactly what you just said they'd do, like it's their only choice. Or this could be your way of defense through day 1, casting suspicion on anyone who even remotely calls you out.
So yeah, I don't see the point, and it is hard to take your claim seriously. Best I can figure you're trying to stir the pot early to make the game more interesting.
Speaking of making the game more interesting, let's talk about who to kill day 1. Well it's kind of a crapshoot right now so I oddly agree with Vivi in that we should be lynching inactives. Moreso, we should be threatening to lynch anyone who doesn't post by the end of one full day, real time. And not just post, you need to offer an opinion too. Offering an opinion on something really shouldn't be hard right now. Basically I'm giving the same warning to everyone that L gave to me and HeavOn. Contribute or die, you don't get another warning.
That warning is at the end of a lot of words, so I'll say it like this.
CONTRIBUTE OR DIE. YOU DON'T GET ANOTHER WARNING.
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On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote:
Also isn't NemY the one that's supposed to claim medic on day one? Last time this happened the town got in a major BS argument day 1 and then won when our mafia leader ragequit because Vivi logged in 2 minutes late.
Difference here is the fact that I know what I'm doing here.
On January 05 2010 20:13 Zato-1 wrote:
[1]Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime.
On a final note:
[2]Player list seems to be 12 people long. Are there 12 of us? If so, please fix the "11 of 11 players remain" on the OP. Also, if there's 12 players, how many mafia and how many townies are there? The OP suggests 8 townies and 3 mafia, but that adds up to 11.
Also, is role revealed after death, or merely which side you're on?
[1] - We'll discuss protection options as the day draws near an end. I'm leaning towards L or Ace tonight, depending on how each plays.
[2] - I think we're at 12 (9 & 3) and this should be full reveal, not limited flip.
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this.
It does a number of things - it can provide a confirmed townie which is the worst possible thing for mafia to have to go up against, because it's someone that no matter what, they cannot push a lynch on, and worst of all - I'm not one of the top players in the game, so I'm not someone they want to waste a NK on either. Even if I'm barking up the completely wrong tree they have to try and kill me because they can't get me lynched once I'm confirmed. It forces mafia to play a guessing game. Sure, they had to play one before, but it was minimized. Now, they have to try and outguess the entire town. I can ask the town directly - who do we want to keep protected tonight and form a list. Mafia players will either have to sacrifice a potential target and put him up on the list or out themselves with a ridiculous choice and/or not post at all. Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect.
Doctor can be a much more powerful role out in the open.
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him.
I wouldn't direct a vig to hit anyone and protect that, because our vigs are one-shot. There are later plans for any vigs. Regarding the DT, I have a plan for any potential DTs we have, but that steps in on D2.
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers.
I'm a medic though. And I'm trying to do something different because I've seen it work, I've seen this tactic in play. Besides, as odd of a defense as it is, this is nowhere near my scum meta, even if I was GF. I much prefer to push attention away from myself, because I'm prone to fuckups if I try and be too active.
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well.
The ability to be a confirmed townie and force mafia to adapt uncomfortably.
The ability to force mafia into a guessing game.
The ability to bring the town together and become a town leader here.
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it.
So we have 2 topics of interest now:
1) Medic claim
2) Who y'all wanna kill
It does seem odd that no one is talking about it.
On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote:
I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics?
This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format.
I can protect myself. That was the kicker. It might not make sense for there to be two medics, but there very well could be. We don't know, and I don't try and out-guess the mod, no matter what the most likely scenario of "who should be scum" or "Why would he do this".
@Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you.
Also, for a kill, I say if he doesn't really put effort into it, Chezinu should be the day 1 lynch. No matter what he flips, it's a win for town.
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Judge, please post, because there's a bunch of missing information that I need to make a chart that will tell me who to kill.
Malongo and nemY, you guys post too.
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Hey fucker, don't post while I'm writing my post.
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Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect. See, I believe you're rather correct when you say there's a guessing game going on, but I don't know why you'd do it in person, rather than through a mouth. Additionally, I don't see why pretending to be a mouth and posting late in the day rather than early would have harmed you or your goals here. So what mindgames are here that weren't here previously? The only real difference in the 'try to dodge the medic list member' roulette is the fact that you've painted a sign on your forehead. While you may have seen this used in the past, the 9 man format doesn't have a godfather, and doesn't have the possibility of multiple medics; the bluff is far simpler to make here, whereas its a massively ballsy move in a game of 9 man to claim doc as mafia; that's why its so powerful there.
Additionally, I have further issues; As you note, the timing of this is odd; you can't reveal a bunch of your 'plan' because a bunch of night roles simply aren't able to act yet. I can somewhat waive this on my own because I typically play in the same manner.
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.
How exactly are you going to confirm anyone?
The objective elements of your claim are an increase in attention on you, which speaks to a godfather, vet, vig or green role. You most certainly aren't the DT, or a normal mafia member.
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On January 06 2010 00:51 Qatol wrote: blue yet again!
lolz
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 06 2010 05:19 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Hello. Reading posts
Me too.
I'm really not sure what to make of judge's claim for the moment, but I don't immediately see the point. I hope there is more to it than "trust me".
Actually, I haven't even read the rules thoroughly yet. I'm going to go do that, and I will be back in a few hours (class).
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On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:@Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you.
That's fine for now. I'll see if you missed anything when I'm not just on a short break.
On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.
Is the mafia allowed to not hit anyone during the night?
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so a medic claim
1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done.
short of a DT role-check i don't see how you can be confirmed, and that could barely qualify as concrete evidence regardless , seeing how you openly claimed.
so obviously im missing out on your plan , as the rest of the town. why would you keep this information/plan hidden ?
also, this,
Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding.
? i suggest if there is another medic , they counterclaim. the odds of there being 2 medics in a ~11-12 player game is substantial. the fact that you posted this statement is rather godfatherly.
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On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +Just for the record. Can we wait to see who the fuck is actually inactive before deciding who we are going to kill for inactivity? Word. I actually plan to play this game through. I'm really surprised it was Vivi who first said to kill me and not L, considering how often I seem to get L killed. Also isn't NemY the one that's supposed to claim medic on day one? Last time this happened the town got in a major BS argument day 1 and then won when our mafia leader ragequit because Vivi logged in 2 minutes late. Oh wait he claimed detective. Maybe this will turn out better. I guess the evidence points to killing Vivi.
For what it was worth I R/C'd DT to try and get myself in mayoral office, but yeah... so far every game I've seen somebody R/C as a blue, the results do not turn out well...
If I were DT I would probably rolecheck someone random, because honestly if Ace and/or L are mafia, one of them almost assuredly has to be the GF. Really no point to role checking them yet then, is there?
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On January 06 2010 05:38 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:@Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you. That's fine for now. I'll see if you missed anything when I'm not just on a short break. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night. Is the mafia allowed to not hit anyone during the night?
Dunno, but its been an option in past games so I dont' see why it wouldn't be here. Even if they can't, a hit on a vet would be pretty much the equivalent, or a claim that a vet was hit would do the same thing.
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On January 06 2010 05:46 HeavOnEarth wrote:so a medic claim Show nested quote +
1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done.
short of a DT role-check i don't see how you can be confirmed, and that could barely qualify as concrete evidence regardless , seeing how you openly claimed. so obviously im missing out on your plan , as the rest of the town. why would you keep this information/plan hidden ? also, this, ? i suggest if there is another medic , they counterclaim. the odds of there being 2 medics in a ~11-12 player game is substantial. the fact that you posted this statement is rather godfatherly.
Assuming judge is a medic, I highly doubt there's another medic out there. Given that there's 11 people, 3 are mafia, and the mafia only have a KP of 1; 2+ medics would be somewhat imbalanced towards the town. Of course if another person were to roleclaim medic then that would make things very fishy between judge and the person who additionally roleclaimed medic.
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Its entirely possible there are 2 granted that they may have stacked the mafia team with very good players and used an extra medic as compensation.
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What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.
isn't that kind of risky? provided judge doesn't openly claim who he was protecting , if he listed ace and L and himself for protection, and ace was mafia, for example-
ace: Oh hey guys i was protected last night lololol
judge: uh no, i protected myself
ace: oh
ace: .. FUUUU
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How would Ace know that he was protected if neither he nor judge get a PM telling them that the hit was blocked. The very claim would prove he's a vet or a liar.
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Yeeh. Vet or liar. the point was i didn't see how mafia could really "fake" a confirmation without running risks of being caught. particularly high ones
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But that's the thing, no one can ever be confirmed BY judge without judge messaging them that they were protected last night and even then that doesn't tell them anything because the vet could have been hit or the hit could have been held.
Is this starting to make more sense?
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On January 06 2010 06:14 L wrote:
But that's the thing, no one can ever be confirmed BY judge without judge messaging them that they were protected last night and even then that doesn't tell them anything because the vet could have been hit or the hit could have been held.
Is this starting to make more sense?
So... what you are saying is that there is no real way to confirm that judge is a medic?
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Yeah, but is the costs of holding a hit really worth it ? Considering its a smallish 11-12 player game, wouldn't the mafia be better off killing someone ASAP ?
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The way i see it is, either
a) you get someone killed now, hopefully a blue, or a good townie,
- destroys their possible blue abilities
- limits town leadership
OR
b) you play it smooth and try to get that extra kill anyways, AND make town waste a lynch
but also it could backfire and you get nothing.
choice A looks a lot better to me if i was mafia
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Judge is probably vet or gf. Either way, using a rolecheck on him is a waste because it tells us nothing. Ace and L shouldn't be checked either because unless they're both mafia, they'll turn up town aligned.
Malongo and chezinu are the only people who haven't posted yet.
To anyone suggesting that judge is gf and the mafia doesn't hit anyone for a night so he can make some claim to saving someone, you're wrong. There's no way the mafia would take such a huge risk for such a small potential return.
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I just came home. Im never inactive, most of players know that. Reading the thread but initially id like to pick RoL as a first lynch based on his posting.
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On January 06 2010 06:40 Vivi57 wrote:
Judge is probably vet or gf. Either way, using a rolecheck on him is a waste because it tells us nothing.
Or I'm a medic.
And because everyone wants to know:
Yes, the plan does involve a DT R/C on me.
Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic.
On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:Show nested quote +Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect. See, I believe you're rather correct when you say there's a guessing game going on, but I don't know why you'd do it in person, rather than through a mouth. Additionally, I don't see why pretending to be a mouth and posting late in the day rather than early would have harmed you or your goals here. So what mindgames are here that weren't here previously? The only real difference in the 'try to dodge the medic list member' roulette is the fact that you've painted a sign on your forehead. While you may have seen this used in the past, the 9 man format doesn't have a godfather, and doesn't have the possibility of multiple medics; the bluff is far simpler to make here, whereas its a massively ballsy move in a game of 9 man to claim doc as mafia; that's why its so powerful there.
Actually, I read it first used in a 12 man closed setup. No clue as to whether a GF was there or not. Could have been two medics, could have been 5. Nothing was known. This is semi-open which makes it just as effective.
Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia and my mouth could be mafia providing a plethora of problems. If I pretended to be a mouth, there could be the problem of "He might be mafia." and then I would be outed as medic sooner or later, leading to questions why I chose to fake using a mouth.
On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
Additionally, I have further issues; As you note, the timing of this is odd; you can't reveal a bunch of your 'plan' because a bunch of night roles simply aren't able to act yet. I can somewhat waive this on my own because I typically play in the same manner.
Actually, it isn't because night roles can't act yet, it's because I'm keeping mafia on their toes.
On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.
How exactly are you going to confirm anyone?
The objective elements of your claim are an increase in attention on you, which speaks to a godfather, vet, vig or green role. You most certainly aren't the DT, or a normal mafia member.
I wasn't going to claim any confirmation through a protection. I was going to wait until just before day ended and bark some orders, matter of fact.
Also, in a setup like this, as a scum-gambit to false claim doc and fake confirmation there is no major gain.
BTW, you're catching on with the last part - none of my actions fit the profile of a medic, which can cause people to question the veracity. I am the medic, but how much are the mafia going to believe that?
The plan works in a few parts. The first part is the claim. The second part is making it through the day and establishing a plan for the night in terms of protections. Third part involves a DT rolechecking me.
Day 2 I will explain at the beginning of Day 2. If I lay out the entire plan right now, the plan is lost.
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Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 06 2010 05:57 L wrote:
Its entirely possible there are 2 [medics] granted that they may have stacked the mafia team with very good players and used an extra medic as compensation.
This seems unlikely. If mafia have special roles or something I suppose this could be true, but in the spirit of a small game I can't see that being a likely case either.
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Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification.
Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW?
HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo
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On January 06 2010 09:00 L wrote:Show nested quote +Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification.
Touche.
Show nested quote +Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW? HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS. Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo
Clarification: I could easily pick a mafioso as my mouth, and all information would flow through him, and thus to others. Generally, a mouth this early on is stupid. Is it the greatest position to leave me out in the open today? No. But I don't have to worry about going to a potential mouth, PMing him and having him not come forward with the information.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2010 19:27 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Okay well I am too lazy to read tonight too much. Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 16:52 Vivi57 wrote:
I say we kill scamp. He'll post so little that his role won't be too transparent and we'll be forced to kill him for inactivity without gaining new information. This also helps to enforce that mafia must post or they'll be killed for inactivity. Just for the record. Can we wait to see who the fuck is actually inactive before deciding who we are going to kill for inactivity? On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +Just for the record. Can we wait to see who the fuck is actually inactive before deciding who we are going to kill for inactivity? Word. I actually plan to play this game through. I'm really surprised it was Vivi who first said to kill me and not L, considering how often I seem to get L killed. Also isn't NemY the one that's supposed to claim medic on day one? Last time this happened the town got in a major BS argument day 1 and then won when our mafia leader ragequit because Vivi logged in 2 minutes late. Oh wait he claimed detective. Maybe this will turn out better. I guess the evidence points to killing Vivi.
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.
-For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat.
- Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side.
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Ok, I will not use my usual tactics this game L. I was thinking about changing it up even before I read your post. I just ask of you if you can tone down your language?
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On January 05 2010 20:13 Zato-1 wrote:
On a final note:
Player list seems to be 12 people long. Are there 12 of us? If so, please fix the "11 of 11 players remain" on the OP. Also, if there's 12 players, how many mafia and how many townies are there? The OP suggests 8 townies and 3 mafia, but that adds up to 11.
Also, is role revealed after death, or merely which side you're on?
Fixed. There are 12 people in the game, 9 townies 3 mafia. There is a full role reveal after death.
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On January 06 2010 09:39 Chezinu wrote:
Ok, I will not use my usual tactics this game L. I was thinking about changing it up even before I read your post. I just ask of you if you can tone down your language?
What language? I'm positively cordial this game, my good sir.
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On January 06 2010 10:04 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 09:39 Chezinu wrote:
Ok, I will not use my usual tactics this game L. I was thinking about changing it up even before I read your post. I just ask of you if you can tone down your language? What language? I'm positively cordial this game, my good sir.
Shhhh chezinu dont unleash daa beast.
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On January 06 2010 05:38 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:@Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you. That's fine for now. I'll see if you missed anything when I'm not just on a short break. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night. Is the mafia allowed to not hit anyone during the night?
Yes, the mafia is allowed to no-kill if they wish.
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On January 06 2010 10:13 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:38 Scamp wrote:On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:@Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you. That's fine for now. I'll see if you missed anything when I'm not just on a short break. On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night. Is the mafia allowed to not hit anyone during the night? Yes, the mafia is allowed to no-kill if they wish.
How much time do we have to vote? im going to sleep soon.
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On January 06 2010 10:16 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 10:13 Incognito wrote:On January 06 2010 05:38 Scamp wrote:On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:@Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you. That's fine for now. I'll see if you missed anything when I'm not just on a short break. On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night. Is the mafia allowed to not hit anyone during the night? Yes, the mafia is allowed to no-kill if they wish. How much time do we have to vote? im going to sleep soon.
Voting ends tomorrow 8:00 PM PST (moving it up a couple hours for the east coast folks). You have plenty of time.
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First of all one thing I need to make clear: I've seen medics openly claim Day 1 before in similar formats and almost every single time they end in disaster and the town loses. Now before I go into specifics of why, Judge I know you've played on Mafiascum. Assuming they are pretty good over there you've probably seen a lot of possibilities for broken cop/medic claims that is doable in this game. That's the ONLY thing that makes me even remotely think you can be a legit medic. If that wasn't possible I'd just call for your lynch. The reasoning that Mafia wouldn't fake claim a medic because it offers little gain is moot - everyone would come to the same reasoning you just did (logically) and agree the medic is obviously real because no mafia would sac himself.
Which is wrong. Mafia KP is always 1. If we all come to that logical conclusion we in fact now have a Mafia who gained something for nothing because everyone thinks it's so stupid why would they do it.
Now the other reason Medic role claims end in disaster is that if you're lying the real medic doesn't know if you're a Vet false claiming or a Mafia in disguise. Regardless they won't talk to you, the cop can't do anything once he RCs you if you aren't a Medic and you will most certainly be dead soon. I think Scamp said it pretty well earlier: This is a guessing game, but now it's no longer a blind guessing game from the Mafia side but a potential shot of information they shouldn't have this early.
If you're gambit fails and you are really the medic and you die tonight, the game is going to be ridiculously hard for the town. You've got experience. You SHOULD know that with you not being able to be confirmed through medic protections we have no incentive to believe you at all. I'm inclined to say you're move is very anti-town at the moment.
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On January 06 2010 08:46 Zato-1 wrote:
Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia.
I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/
Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays).
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On January 06 2010 10:46 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 08:46 Zato-1 wrote:
Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia. I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/ Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays).
I never said it was easy for the rest of us to determine whether he's lying or not. But, seen from the point of view of someone who IS town-aligned, I can see how that person would want to jump into the limelight and assume a leadership role. Lurking or erring on the side of caution will just let someone else take the reins of leadership- why risk having mafia set the floor for the discussion, when you can do it yourself? It makes sense to me.
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On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote:
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.
I thought the point in RoL's post was pretty obvious: shouldn't we wait and see who's inactive before we target specific people for inactivity? I came on and agreed, the fact that Vivi was targeting me was just coincidence. I don't think that his post implies in any way that he knew I wasn't inactive. Also it was 20 minutes and not 10.
But yeah, RoL's only posted once so far, and the point he made doesn't really make a difference in the game. A few other people have only posted once offering nothing of significance, and if this continues for much longer I say we target them.
On January 06 2010 05:58 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.
isn't that kind of risky? provided judge doesn't openly claim who he was protecting , if he listed ace and L and himself for protection, and ace was mafia, for example- ace: Oh hey guys i was protected last night lololol judge: uh no, i protected myself ace: oh ace: .. FUUUU
This scenerio doesn't make any sense to me at all. I can't think of a single reason why Ace would say that if Judge isn't mafia.
Now if Ace and Judge were both mafia and Judge clamed that he protected Ace, that's the play that "clears" Judge (and Ace too) that we're worried about happening.
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On January 06 2010 10:04 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 09:39 Chezinu wrote:
Ok, I will not use my usual tactics this game L. I was thinking about changing it up even before I read your post. I just ask of you if you can tone down your language? What language? I'm positively cordial this game, my good sir.
i believe he's referring to your first post where u shit on 1/2 the town ^_^
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On January 06 2010 10:46 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 08:46 Zato-1 wrote:
Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia. I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/ Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays).
THIS IS LIKE THE FOURTH ANTI-ROL POST I HAVE SEEN.
GET THE FUCK OFF IT.
Holy shit.
I am going to go read the entire thread and just start yelling at everyone I feel like yelling at. Especially you, because I hate you for hating me. See you all in 20 minutes!
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On January 05 2010 15:39 L wrote:
Dear morans.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moran
Step one. Learn to spell properly before insulting everyone else. You suck.
Also you replaced your 4th and 5th bullets with $ %.
On January 05 2010 17:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches make for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan. I AM A MEDIC. + Show Spoiler [Bullshit] +Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start this game off.
Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done. That will come on Day 2, but I can be. Second, it allows me to work in the open and play with mafia's head. I can make my own list towards the end of each day and force mafia to play a guessing game as to who on the list I will protect, if I will actually protect anyone from that list, or if it is worth it to try and kill me and will I protect myself.
2) As stated above, it will throw a major wrench into the mafias night-actions. They will not know if they are safe to try and kill me, or one of my targets. They don't know if there are other medics either who can protect me and/or my targets.
3) Mafia is now going to push to get me killed, either very boldly or subtly, via a lynch. This will give us a pool to work with of potential suspects.
This is such a bullshit post its absurd. You are mafia. There is no fucking way to ever confirm you. You are probably just the godfather whose just going to try to dickover a DT. I would say just kill you tonight and save us the drama. There really is NO reason to keep you alive. You are either going to cause confusion in trying to confirm you as a "medic" because it just can't be done. Killing you will either A. Get rid of a mafia who tried playing some dumb ploy that just shouldn't let you live but no one wants to A. Waste a lynch and B. Kill a blue.
I am just going to say it, your move was dumb and is very mafia orientated. We can't prove your mafia or a medic, we can't prove shit. Your just going to cause confusion and probably get a DT killed. Losing the GF isn't a big deal either as long as you can trade it off for a "DT" or some town influence for a couple of days.
Lets just kill Judge and save ourselves the god damn heartache and pages of arguments. I am not even waiting, I am voting for him as a I write this. Disagree with me or not, hes playing like a retard or a mafia trying a dumb ploy that in most circumstances I could see paying off. But lets not let this become one of those circumstances.
On January 05 2010 20:13 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 16:52 Vivi57 wrote:
I say we kill scamp. He'll post so little that his role won't be too transparent and we'll be forced to kill him for inactivity without gaining new information. This also helps to enforce that mafia must post or they'll be killed for inactivity. Hm. Scamp doesn't post much, but what he does post is usually telling, in my experience. Since all we have on day 1 for choosing a Lynch target is behavioral analysis, I'd rather go after the people who are 'immune' to behavioral analysis. And by this, I mean Chezinu. Usually, all he posts are random references to 'Ace' and 'Brown', and his comments are completely unrelated to the game, its players, its roles, suggested courses of action, etc. That is, in fact, a valid mafia strategy- say a lot of shit so people don't peg you down for being inactive, but never commit to saying something relevant so that you won't be called out for something you said. As it is, the only way for the Town to ever determine his role directly will be through a DT, which I'd rather use on some other big-name players instead (L, Ace). Leaning: Lynch Chezinu Then, there's the matter of our other night roles: DTs, Medics, Vigis. DTs should definitely check out the big-name players. For me, these are: Ace, L. They're basically a big boon in terms of post quality, behavioral analysis and Town leadership if they're Townies, so it's a good idea to see whether we should be rallying around them early or not. And if they're mafia... we'll want them lynched ASAP. Oh, and do remember the Godfather won't show up as mafia in a RC; if a RC comes up Red, the DT knows with 100% certainty that player's mafia. If it doesn't come up red, the DT does not know with 100% certainty whether that player's mafia or not.
CANT WE WAIT UNTIL CHEZ FUCKING POSTS? I mean if he really posts his Brown shit we kill him.
Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime.
I also think while we are having our medics protect blue roles we should also only lynch reds. I feel like following this solid plan can win us the game.
On January 05 2010 20:22 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote:
I guess the evidence points to killing Vivi. What evidence are you talking about? If it's, "He accused me so I'll accuse him", that's not valid in my book- it leads to Town infighting most of the time, which benefits none but the mafia.
Learn to read sarcasm. He only posted that because Vivi said kill Scamp for dumb reasons before seeing how hes playing at all. If hes quiet we kill him.
On January 05 2010 21:24 Ace wrote:I agree that killing useless players is always a sound strategy when there isn't a better idea. Of course with the what, 15 or so mafia games played so far that list isn't exactly hard to populate at the moment:
1.) vivi57
2.) nemy
3.) RebirthofLegend
And if any of you remember last game with the huge fuck ups of 3 players in particular the prime candidate for most detrimental to the town is RoL. He doesn't read and is a sheep. He's easily influenced and lets his emotions get to him and rarely if ever helps the town. Last game he didn't even realize he was being manipulated until the very end.
Vivi57 and nemy, well you guys already know how terrible both of them are. It's just that RoL is far worse than either of them.
Holy shit Ace, this is ridiculous. You have no idea what happened last game to where you can judge me "manipulated"
Yeah, I sided with L that Shikyo was probably the GF because 3 DT's seemed improbable. At the same time Shikyo never communicated with me and stopped posting when L told me he was GF. He went from being really active to not posting shit for no reason at all. I also managed to do 2 succesful protects after making contact with L, which he knew I was protecting. I forgot who they were on but one was Midori. Why would the mafia waste their hits when they KNOW who I am protecting? The only time that it was an "OH SHIT" moment was when I saw a second medic die and was really confused. I didn't realize for the sake of game balance their wouldn't be two medics and a Veteran. I died like a day later.
So for you to say I played like absolute shit speaks to your ignorance. I predicted three hits which were also the SAME EXACT FUCKING PROTECTS THE OTHER MEDIC DID. So yeah, maybe a saved a mafia with one of them but if I didn't the other medic would have.
Just get off my balls please and move on with the game.
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this.
If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him.
You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers.
Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well.
Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it.
So we have 2 topics of interest now:
1) Medic claim
2) Who y'all wanna kill
There are better ways to get attention as a vet while not fucking with the town. Lying is generally a bad thing to do, it is mafia behavior. Be as honest as possible and keep plans simple. That is how you behave town orientated.
If hes trying to get the DT to check him its dumb, he would probably just be the godfather with this behavior.
I want to kill Judge and just save us this problem further down the line. I already posted how this benefits the mafia for more than it could the town. Mafia is NOT risking KP with a move like this and they can get a DT if the DT is foolish enough to role check and call to Judge. They are also getting the town off topic which doesn't help us either.
So yeah,
1. Medic is bullshit GF ploy.
2. Kill Judge.
Simple enough.
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I am on page five and just as another note. Your main point on scaring mafia with lists was dumb. You don't have to be in the open for a list check to scare mafia, either way they have to worry about it.
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T_T EBWOP: Oh and Ace, Shikyo also apparently "Forgot" to use a role check and that is why we couldn't confirm whether he was mafia or a legit DT which was even more retarded. He basically said things that were already confirmed by other people and publicly which is something the GF would have to do considering he has no real DT powers.
anyway time to keep reading!
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On January 06 2010 09:00 L wrote:Show nested quote +Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification. Show nested quote +Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW? HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS. Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo
Very simply if you wanted to use a mouth here is all you had to do.
Wait a day or a little bit, just PM someone completely fucking random and just say "Hey the way you were posting makes me think your a *TOWN ROLE* tonight I just want to start up town circle seems like a good way to start it. and yeah tonight I am protecting L.
Then just protect your fucking self. If there is no hit at all that night, chances are you PMed a mafia who is like "lol ez kill" then hit you thinking you were just sitting there for fun. They probably also would of overlooked that you could protect yourself. But you decided to do some dumbshit move.
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On January 06 2010 10:43 Ace wrote:
First of all one thing I need to make clear: I've seen medics openly claim Day 1 before in similar formats and almost every single time they end in disaster and the town loses. Now before I go into specifics of why, Judge I know you've played on Mafiascum. Assuming they are pretty good over there you've probably seen a lot of possibilities for broken cop/medic claims that is doable in this game. That's the ONLY thing that makes me even remotely think you can be a legit medic. If that wasn't possible I'd just call for your lynch. The reasoning that Mafia wouldn't fake claim a medic because it offers little gain is moot - everyone would come to the same reasoning you just did (logically) and agree the medic is obviously real because no mafia would sac himself.
Which is wrong. Mafia KP is always 1. If we all come to that logical conclusion we in fact now have a Mafia who gained something for nothing because everyone thinks it's so stupid why would they do it.
Now the other reason Medic role claims end in disaster is that if you're lying the real medic doesn't know if you're a Vet false claiming or a Mafia in disguise. Regardless they won't talk to you, the cop can't do anything once he RCs you if you aren't a Medic and you will most certainly be dead soon. I think Scamp said it pretty well earlier: This is a guessing game, but now it's no longer a blind guessing game from the Mafia side but a potential shot of information they shouldn't have this early.
If you're gambit fails and you are really the medic and you die tonight, the game is going to be ridiculously hard for the town. You've got experience. You SHOULD know that with you not being able to be confirmed through medic protections we have no incentive to believe you at all. I'm inclined to say you're move is very anti-town at the moment.
I also agree with this 100%. See Ace we can agree if we really try!
Oh and here's to my inactivity going away. I just didn't have time/patience to read the entire thread at that moment. I will post tons don't worry.
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Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please.
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On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote:
Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please.
Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself.
Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading.
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On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote:
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.
-For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat.
- Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side.
I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why?
First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side?
Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill.
I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote.
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Zato, I agree kind of. In any other person I think it would be suspicious. I can agree L is saying some stuff I do agree with, however Judge is acting like a retard/mafia. The stuff he is doing just does not benefit us. You are actually essentially using the same mentality is him. Guilt by association, just because I said something about Scamp doesn't mean we are friends and on the same note just because he mentioned them I don't think they are mafia if he is, but you are saying we should kill him because then it casts doubt on the two others. This is the same logic he just used on me and Scamp which you just disagreed with.
I honestly just think hes being a dumb townie. However that post is also from when I had not really said anything and Scamp hadn't really either. If we believe in lynching inactives to make mafia post or die then he chose two decent candidates, me having not posted anything and scamp having not really posted much. The only thing I posted was kind of in scamp's defense.
I am sure Malongo would change his mind now when he rereads the thread. That post is from at least one page ago and kind of just looks like you are trying to save Judge from having made a bad move.
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That is so stylistically ugly. I have because three times in a row.
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On January 07 2010 01:59 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Zato, I agree kind of. In any other person I think it would be suspicious. I can agree L is saying some stuff I do agree with, however Judge is acting like a retard/mafia. The stuff he is doing just does not benefit us. You are actually essentially using the same mentality is him. Guilt by association, just because I said something about Scamp doesn't mean we are friends and on the same note just because he mentioned them I don't think they are mafia if he is, but you are saying we should kill him because then it casts doubt on the two others. This is the same logic he just used on me and Scamp which you just disagreed with.
I honestly just think hes being a dumb townie. However that post is also from when I had not really said anything and Scamp hadn't really either. If we believe in lynching inactives to make mafia post or die then he chose two decent candidates, me having not posted anything and scamp having not really posted much. The only thing I posted was kind of in scamp's defense.
I am sure Malongo would change his mind now when he rereads the thread. That post is from at least one page ago and kind of just looks like you are trying to save Judge from having made a bad move.
I don't particularly care for Judge. He may very well be mafia. I just don't think it's a good decision to lynch him right now, because there are more likely mafia candidates. After night 1 comes and goes I hope to have a bit more clarity regarding him.
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RoL does bring up some good points, and Ace and L both agree with me that overall Judge's claim is probably a dumb move. As I see it it's ballsy at best and bad at worst.
*Off-topic* RoL I don't think you should criticize someone's spelling unless you want to be criticized for your mistakes too. So: You're = you are. Your = possessive. If you can say "you are" in place of "your" in the sentence and it makes sense, you used the wrong one.
Sorry, I like to be a grammar nazi even though my spelling is atrocious. */Off-topic*
Anyway, I'd like to point this out.
On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
I'm a medic though. And I'm trying to do something different because I've seen it work, I've seen this tactic in play. Besides, as odd of a defense as it is, this is nowhere near my scum meta, even if I was GF. I much prefer to push attention away from myself, because I'm prone to fuckups if I try and be too active.
Some links would be nice. I'd like to see this tactic in play and see it work well.
Chezinu needs to post more or he's getting my vote. I do like Zato's analysis on Malongo too so I'd like to see his response to that. I'm also keeping my eye on a few other people, hopefully they'll post today.
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Unfortunately the town does not see the benefits of my maneuver, but you will in time. Get me through to tomorrow and this game will be very much in our control.
Stop asking questions about the plan, because the more I lay out now, the less effective it is. Right now it is 9 hours to deadline, and a slew of people have decided to go under. Let's figure out which one of them is going to be a lynch candidate tonight, and at 10:50 PM EST I will lay out the night phase of my plan for you all to see.
I've got a pretty good feeling that this is going to catch one mafia tonight, if you just let me work my magic.
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On January 07 2010 00:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote:
Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please. Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself. Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading.
I actually forgot about the VI thing. You really just sucked last game ^_^
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My Problem with Judge
On August 24 2009 14:27 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Here's the problem with the "medic claims" plan - the mod can discretionarily leave out any of those roles. So mafia can make a gambit and say "I'm the DT." and the medic only gets one DT claim. You bus one mafioso, since KP doesn't change. Medic announces "ydg is mafia" and then people lynch him and he is, DT is trusted. NK a townie. Town is down to 9, takes 5 to lynch. The fake-DT offers up an innocent. Town lynches someone else as long as the fake-DT's partner lays low. They nightkill the innocent. Down to 7, takes 4 to lynch. Another innocent is offered up. Another non-investigated player is lynched. Said innocent is NKed. Down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. Lylo for town. fake-DT offers an innocent, lynch the other, and GG. They NK the other non-medic and 2 mafiosos vote to lynch the medic next day. One mafioso is sacced to gain the trust of the town and then it's field day.
EDIT: That's just one scenario that could play out. You could have a medic only game in this format theoretically. The semi-openness is what makes it balanced. It's very hard for a semi-open format to be broken by a massclaim because you can have as many or as little of each role.
was posted in the previous Mini-Mafia game here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99804¤tpage=20
Now Judge specifically dismisses the idea of a anyone publicly roleclaiming and now he wants us to believe that it's ok with him? Are you suppose to be an exception to your own rule? You say you have a fail-safe plan? This game isn't designed to have fail-safe 100% guaranteed plans.
Besides that, the track record with anybody publicly role-claiming before night one is zilch I believe (myself included). All they do is start needless chaos and mayhem (which is always in the best interests of the mafia). The best method for reducing this needless drama is getting rid of them early. This is why I'm voting to lynch Judge.
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haha well we can forget about the past and focus on the present!
Who do you want to kill?
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nemY - I honestly forgot about that. I also hadn't seen this plan in use when I had made that post, fwiw. That post was some 5 months ago. I've played about 9 games since then and read plenty more.
And this is a different plan from that, trust me :D
Scamp, I'm trying to remember the game # of where I last saw it used, when I do I'll link it.
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On January 07 2010 01:53 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote:
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.
-For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat.
- Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side.
I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why? First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side? Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill. I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote.
I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy.
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Wow. You guys are fucking retarded.
Do I have to spell out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ACTION for you?
Because I might as well before the lynch, if you plan on killing me tonight - let me know so I can explain how this would've worked.
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BTW - Ace is mafia, calling it now.
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BTW - Judge is mafia, calling it now.
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hey guyz can we double lynch Ace and Judge? They are both mafia according to each other.
It will go great with my plan to lynch only reds and have our medics protect only blues.
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Lol you kids are stupid. Are you serious with this voting pattern in the voting thread?
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On January 07 2010 04:25 Ace wrote:
I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy.
Well, this is how I see it.
Judge says he has a plan. In my experience from previous games, when people say they have a plan but don't want to reveal it just yet, what they usually mean is, "I'm bluffing, so just trust me, m'kay?" I have little reason to believe it will be different this time.
This does not, however, imply that Judge is mafia. He's been far too conspicuous, and for what? Wasting a DT role check? I wouldn't even check him. Anyone that comes up as anything other than a standard mafia thug could be the Godfather, so really, the best use for RCs is to try to confirm suspected mafia members. Everyone here seems to agree that he's either a) A medic, B) The Godfather, or C) A Vet trying to take a hit. So, yeah- chances are he won't show up as a regular mafia thug, and thus wouldn't even waste a DT check if the DT is smart.
Or hey, Judge could be telling the truth and actually be a medic. Mafia will be happy to jump on the "He's generally suspicious, so lynch him" bandwagon in that case.
I'm not saying he's innocent- that I can't know. What I am saying is, please think before casting your lynch vote. "He's generally suspicious because someone else said so" is not a good reason. "I think he's probably mafia based on the analysis I've made of his posts" IS a good enough reason.
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Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.
Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.
I said at the end of last mini mafia that anyone role claiming medic is destined to die. The Medic role generally wants to avoid getting hit even if he can protect himself. However he/she does it is whatever, but trying to attract fire would be unwise. Hence, Judge definitely is NOT a medic. No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go?
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On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go?
Because no matter what Judge really is we have the opportunity for some exceptional information. At the very least, I'm inclined to keep him around because he's got a plan he's going to put into action for better or for worse. Meanwhile there are several people who clearly aren't going to do jack shit, and it's very likely that there's at least one mafia in that group of people.
I agree with what Zato said about voting for people, I just don't think there's enough on Malongo to vote for him right now. That being said, I also don't expect much to go on on day 1 either. It's now about 1PM PST. Voting ends at 8PM PST. If Malongo (also Chezinu, for that matter) doesn't post anything by 5PM PST I'm voting for him, since I'm going to be gone from 5PM onwards.
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I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.
If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.
Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.
At this point, I think it's +ev for the mafia not to accuse anyone and just stay out of the way while the town hangs itself. The people who haven't posted much or accused anyone are:
chez
heavon
mikeymoo
All 3 have posted a bit, but haven't actually said anything. I'm much less inclined to kill heavon because it seems like he's putting in a decent effort. Chez has said that he is going to not do his brown crap this game and not posted anything else. Mikeymoo has responded more directly to the game, but not really to any situations that have arisen. Because of this, I'm going to put my vote there for now, but may have to change it because I think judge should live till day 2 at least.
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what exceptional information? I really want to know this.
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On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.
If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.
Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.
I actually don't even care what his plan is. The fact that he has a plan and hasn't said a word about it speaks volumes. This is an 11 player game - what plan does he really have that's so fragile but powerful that it needs to be stated on Day 2 instead of Day 1? How does that help the town?
Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING.
I'm not going through this "he might be blue" shit again. I've said in countless games I really don't give a shit about not lynching someone solely because they might have a power role. If you make a big gamble and you make a mistake you deserve to be at the center of the lynch discussion.
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On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.
No, I'm saying we shouldn't lynch him because I think others are more likely to be mafia. Like Malongo.
On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.
Fine, be that way. I'm not so fanatically opposed to day 1 roleclaiming. Yet. I've yet to see how it plays out in this game.
On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Ok, so for the sake of argument, let's say he made a mistake. It's done. So now your plan is to execute him for it? To what end? I'm not convinced.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
At this point, I think it's +ev for the mafia not to accuse anyone and just stay out of the way while the town hangs itself. The people who haven't posted much or accused anyone are:
chez
heavon
mikeymoo
All 3 have posted a bit, but haven't actually said anything. I'm much less inclined to kill heavon because it seems like he's putting in a decent effort. Chez has said that he is going to not do his brown crap this game and not posted anything else. Mikeymoo has responded more directly to the game, but not really to any situations that have arisen. Because of this, I'm going to put my vote there for now, but may have to change it because I think judge should live till day 2 at least.
Hi I have school from 8-3 Mountain Time daily. I intend on giving my thoughts today, so hold your horses, alright? Reading now. Most of the game passes while I'm at school, and I suppose that's just unfortunate timing for me.
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Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today.
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Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Who's putting blind faith in him?
Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him.
If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good.
Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.
So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game?
I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways.
Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF.
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Oh, and to respond to RoL's claim in the voting thread that Judge cannot be confirmed; that's false. There are foolproof manners of having him confirmed, but having him block a mafia hit is not one. There are, however, others.
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On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today.
A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like.
If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb.
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Since people want my opinion:
so far from what I read, the posts of RoL and vivi seem to interest me. Ace's post about townies don't lie made me laugh but L beat me to it. There is nothing I can post that is of value because of my name. My name makes all my posts a waste. No one can really take me seriously. Maybe if I change my tone people will listen? But then again I could be doing that on purpose for it fits my character. But what happens if someone's character changes?
Here I am trying not to post something of waste in the eyes of others. I have a question. What is a post in this game that isn't a waste? Everyone here has been through this game. There is no need to aid people in opening there minds to all possibilities. There is no need to state the noob mistakes some people make or if they are trying to make you think it is a noob mistake but really they did it on purpose ect....
So what are my thoughts...well, I was thinking that everyone has been accused this game except mikeymoo but vivi ended that... So really I have no thoughts that I can add. All I can do is write something that hopefully you guys dont think is a waste and wait for you guys to analysis me in this game of darkness. Really, this game takes blind faith sometimes especially on day 1. This is usually when I start messing with people for fun. But I decided to change my play...or did I really? Thats the thing, nothing I can say can mean anything thing especially because of my name.
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On January 07 2010 07:11 L wrote:Show nested quote +Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Who's putting blind faith in him? Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him. If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good.
If he does have a plan there isn't any reason to wait an entire Day to tell us. This is really one of the big signs painting him as Mafia to me. There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. This is the same thing we go through every game where for some reason people assume someone must be telling the truth IF they have a plan.
Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING.
There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.
When? In most of our games townies that lied have led to great disasters. Townies shouldn't be trying to lie to deceive anyone because hey - thats exactly what the Mafia are doing! And using your last sentences if Judge is a Medic then WHY WOULD HE BE WANTING TO GET HIT. Because he isn't a Medic.
So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game?
I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways.
Did the last game have this rule set?
I don't think so. When I claimed DT last game I was essentially invulnerable except for the Mafia having the option of switching BGs. This game has no Mayor/Pardoners so that's out of the window. There is nothing to be gained from anyone claiming to be a Medic on Day 1. Ever.
Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF.
Chances are he's Vet or Mafia. That's it. Doesn't even matter if he's plain red or GF. If he's red and he gets checked by the DT that means by Day 2 the DT is immediately outed in a game where the Mafia KP doesn't change based on Judge dying.
As for any other candidates no one else is even near as suspicious as Judge. Somehow Malongo is being talked about based on 1 post he threw out there when Judge has several and SHOULD be talked about even more. Where the hell is everyone else playing this game?
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On January 07 2010 07:25 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like. If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb.
no I'm lynching him because I think he is Mafia. I was using the way he was playing as an argument for why I think he indeed is Mafia ^_^
And yes I'm strongly opposed to Day 1 role claims in most formats.
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Canada7170 Posts
I've thought about this for almost a day now, and I still don't understand judge's move.
I agree with L and Vivi. I think there is a case for judge being Medic or Vet, and even if there's a chance for him being GF, we might want to keep him around.
On the other hand, I have been thinking about this from a Medic's point of view for about a day, and it seems just like the rest of us, have come up dry in justifying this move. (Or at least publicly) It seems too valiant to be a townie protecting the real Medic, since it is unlikely the real Medic gets lynched on day 1 anyway. Which makes me lean toward Vet, but if that's the case, why make this move during the day? So to judge: can you answer if there was a good reason you claimed during the day?
Who else is a good candidate? I'm going to look through the thread again, but nobody has struck me. I might abstain tonight if I can't find a good case (or be otherwise convinced) for someone else.
Incognito, would you like me to edit my vote, or post a new one, if i decide to switch?
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General responses:
I've said part of it before. The first objective of the claim was to allow me to work out in the open, scare scum and also because I do have a plan. The second objective is to put myself in a position to lead the town in the right direction, because otherwise we'd be voting to no-lynch today, which on Day 1 is an awful play.
You think it's scummy that I don't give out every detail of my plan? That's great. Unfortunately, as I've re-iterated before and I'll do again, giving out every detail of my plan makes it useless.
Let me help you all out and put this claim in perspective from both points of view:
From a Town-aligned point of view: I am a medic. I can sit back, hope not to draw too much attention to me during the day or the night and try and protect the right hits. OR I can come out in the open and claim. Thus, the mafia is now wondering a myriad of things. Am I the real medic? Am I bluffing? Can they hit me successfully? Will I protect the people I list? Will they hit the one I protect? If he's not the medic, we'll be able to get him lynched, but if he is, we might not. Do we try and kill him at night?
Now I have one-up on the mafia. I don't need to outguess them. I'll protect who I choose to and wait.
If you think a medic's only use is to absorb kills, you're dead wrong.
From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.
This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective.
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There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it.
1) There's a rather large reason.
2) We will be able to find out if he is.
Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out.
Did the last game have this rule set? Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle.
Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace?
Normally you aren't so short sighted .
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Additionally; I think its a rather important point that while there's a significant proportion of us that are voting for a non-judge lynch, we haven't really discussed who should be the target of that lynch.
I'm going to stay on malongo for now not out of spite for him (he's in mountain time and can't post), but because judge was 2:2 and losing the tiebreaker. Now even if malongo swings on judge to save himself, someone else needs to come out and risk their neck to kill judge.
As far as actual GOOD targets, RoL seems like the most lynchable mafia-tell producing person. I honestly don't think you're a terrible player, RoL, but I think your posts this game have been really odd.
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On January 07 2010 08:34 L wrote:Show nested quote +There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. 1) There's a rather large reason. 2) We will be able to find out if he is. Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out. Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle. Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace? Normally you aren't so short sighted .
Last game I could be invincible. What are you talking about? lol have you forgotten already? It doesn't matter if you think he's a GF. The point is no one claims medic on Day 1. It's seriously a dumb move. It's like 4 pooling on an island map. There is nothing to gain. And this hey let's wait and see his plan along with this I can't tell you guys what my plan is mentality is screaming Mafia. And to top it all off now we want to lynch Malongo based on nothing? lol right. You guys are making PERFECT sense here.
Answer me on how we are going to confirm judge is a medic.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.
This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective.
Small point: I can't see why mafia would claim medic and pass on a night kill. A night miss can still be regarded as Vet, right? It still makes some sense (I guess?) to claim medic, just not passing on a night kill.
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On January 07 2010 09:07 mikeymoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.
This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective. Small point: I can't see why mafia would claim medic and pass on a night kill. A night miss can still be regarded as Vet, right? It still makes some sense (I guess?) to claim medic, just not passing on a night kill.
It was just a possible way for mafia to try and confirm themselves being the medic. Obviously the vet throws it off as does the no confirmation via PM of a save.
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Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge?
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Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go.
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On January 07 2010 09:13 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge?
There's still some 4 hours left to the day, I will though.
Any input from players on who I should protect from the town?
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you must be a salesman in real life
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So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts.
Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead.
L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid.
RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm.
The rest are null-reads as well.
Except Malongo. He reads mafia.
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On January 07 2010 09:23 Ace wrote:
you must be a salesman in real life
Actually, I'm a student.
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I still dont see much gain from mafia to fakeclaim, thats why im inclined to think judge isnt mafia. Im really trusting the "other" blues here. Btw some votes on me are really lol votes, im not gonna defend myself but the only guy that has a "reason" to lynch me is L and he is based on previous games. Zato thinks im mafia because I was making separate groups. Funny shit the guys that i say im inclined to trust are insta voting me (L and judge) what do you think zato-1?
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On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts.
Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead.
L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid.
RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm.
The rest are null-reads as well.
Except Malongo. He reads mafia.
because.. ? o.O
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On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts.
Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead.
L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid.
RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm.
The rest are null-reads as well.
Except Malongo. He reads mafia.
LOLWHERE?
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^ well zato and some others have made posts, but i was just asking mostly because i wanted his opinion
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On January 07 2010 09:33 Malongo wrote:
I still dont see much gain from mafia to fakeclaim, thats why im inclined to think judge isnt mafia. Im really trusting the "other" blues here. Btw some votes on me are really lol votes, im not gonna defend myself but the only guy that has a "reason" to lynch me is L and he is based on previous games. Zato thinks im mafia because I was making separate groups. Funny shit the guys that i say im inclined to trust are insta voting me (L and judge) what do you think zato-1?
I originally voted you to force a no-lynch and save my sorry ass from being idiot-lynched.
Now I'm voting you because your one "real" post in the thread reeked of active lurking, a wonderful scum tactic, of coming in and providing nothing but fluff and lack of contribution to the game. You barely put anything new on the table, then disappeared for a lovely 24 hours. You come back and again provide nothing new to the discussion, and get all OMGUS on me for calling you out.
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HoE, does that answer your post?
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I just voted for Malongo, because he abstained when he is about to get lynched and he didn't even bother to tie the score. That's why I said "for now" just as he stated.
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On January 07 2010 09:36 HeavOnEarth wrote:
^ well zato and some others have made posts, but i was just asking mostly because i wanted his opinion
I know. The thing is that i have a lot less time now. I can post from about 8 KST to 12:00 KST and 1 hour near 7:00 KST. Mods cant confirm that im working but they can confirm i have no post record in about 4/5 months. Not really a defence, just clarifying why i cant post that much.
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On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go.
Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge.
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Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too.
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there is definitely enough time to switch L...Most people are active right now. the pm's don't lie.
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On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too.
I find it very odd that given that judge won't be killed that you aren't pressing to get RoL killed, and that RoL, who absolutely hates you, has been toddling around and towing your line.
Sup with that, bro?
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On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge.
Does him being blue even matter? He hasn't done anything suspicious at all.
And I don't have an argument for anyone else. Seriously Judge is the only person that seems suspect to me.
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On January 07 2010 09:45 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. I find it very odd that given that judge won't be killed that you aren't pressing to get RoL killed, and that RoL, who absolutely hates you, has been toddling around and towing your line. Sup with that, bro?
why would I want RoL killed again?
How is him echoing me even relevant?
:/
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On January 07 2010 09:45 Chezinu wrote:
there is definitely enough time to switch L...Most people are active right now. the pm's don't lie.
K, well, if nemy or Ace switch to RoL, i'd be cool with switching too.
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On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too.
The first part still reeks of anti-town nature at minimum, mafia nature more likely.
The second part - huh?
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BTW, Ace, might want to work on getting that tunnel vision checked out.
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It seems to me that the mafia are giving us one of their member to kill so that we can trust them. Should we accept their gift? Why not?
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how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument.
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On January 07 2010 09:39 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:33 Malongo wrote:
I still dont see much gain from mafia to fakeclaim, thats why im inclined to think judge isnt mafia. Im really trusting the "other" blues here. Btw some votes on me are really lol votes, im not gonna defend myself but the only guy that has a "reason" to lynch me is L and he is based on previous games. Zato thinks im mafia because I was making separate groups. Funny shit the guys that i say im inclined to trust are insta voting me (L and judge) what do you think zato-1? I originally voted you to force a no-lynch and save my sorry ass from being idiot-lynched. Now I'm voting you because your one "real" post in the thread reeked of active lurking, a wonderful scum tactic, of coming in and providing nothing but fluff and lack of contribution to the game. You barely put anything new on the table, then disappeared for a lovely 24 hours. You come back and again provide nothing new to the discussion, and get all OMGUS on me for calling you out.
Not really. The thing is Zato-1 posted about me trying to "separate" the town (forming a group with you, L and me). If you read my post I dont even defend against you. Im providing a direct reason why zatos argument is beyond stupidity: I say Im inclined to believe 2 guys are not mafia and they insta band against me... you get the point. Im gonna abstain until the end and i could even vote myself in case i see theres gain for the town in this because its me in the spotlight now.
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I'm waiting for Malongo to change his vote..Hurry up!
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On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge.
READ ME BRO READ ME.
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I can see just fine. Someone claims to be a Medic Day 1 and I'm supposed to just sit back and be like omg fine!
Right Judge. Right ^_^
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On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument.
The convincing argument is pretty obvious; He's a poor player as you've already accepted, his 6 consecutive posts are emotive and generally content poor. If you prefer him dying to malongo, then you'll switch.
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On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument.
Generally, a player voicing opposition to a bandwagon with little case is a mafia member trying to either prevent his partner from being lynched or trying to get townie credit by opposing a wagon on a townie.
This is my experience.
Also, I see no reason to switch to RoL at the moment. He's a null read to me.
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On January 07 2010 06:25 Ace wrote:
what exceptional information? I really want to know this.
To answer this question from way back, I have no idea what exceptional information. Judge says he's going to work his magic, that'll provide exceptional information one way or another. Perhaps I dressed up the wording too much.
Anyway, I personally do not have a strong read on anybody at this point. I do not see the strength of the argument against Malongo, but if there's a tie between him and Judge at the end of the day I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him in that case.
My strongest suspicion right now, however, is Mikeymoo. "Strongest suspicion" is kind of a misnomer since I don't have a strong read on anybody, but something about his posts so far have given me suspicion. I think he's being overly careful not to attract attention to himself while trying to provide some content.
I will be able to get back to my computer about 20 minutes before the deadline. I'll make any necessary vote changes then.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
[...]Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on.[...]
On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
[...]
At this point, I think it's +ev for the mafia not to accuse anyone and just stay out of the way while the town hangs itself. The people who haven't posted much or accused anyone are:
chez
heavon
mikeymoo
All 3 have posted a bit, but haven't actually said anything. I'm much less inclined to kill heavon because it seems like he's putting in a decent effort. Chez has said that he is going to not do his brown crap this game and not posted anything else. Mikeymoo has responded more directly to the game, but not really to any situations that have arisen. Because of this, I'm going to put my vote there for now, but may have to change it because I think judge should live till day 2 at least.
If you were still wondering, vivi doesn't seem to be here right now.
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@L: The only person I'd want to see die is Judge.
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent.
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On January 07 2010 09:51 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge. READ ME BRO READ ME.
Your first post and this subsequent post set has no real content in it. I really don't see why you wouldn't have posted more during the first round unless you were actively trying to stay under the radar. You might have restricted posting times, but that doesn't explain the lack of volume of content; why a single tiny post?
I called you out in my first post, but you actively ignored it.
The risk/reward for killing you with your activity is pretty favorable compared to killing judge. If judge is telling the truth, he's going to be an active asset to the town. If he isn't, his influence is going to be checked by me and ace at the minimum.
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On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@L: The only person I'd want to see die is Judge.
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent.
Well, i'm somewhat the opposite, The only person i'm sure shouldn't die today is judge, whereas i'm flexible on who else we could lynch, hence why I have given you a choice.
Its also a nice way of getting information about you, since you're somewhat forced to pick between Malongo and RoL.
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On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent.
I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense.
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indeed L.
Except I didn't pick because neither of them seem more fishy to me than Judge.
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On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense.
I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME.
If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role.
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On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role.
Then you can't use it as a defense. And I don't use meta as a way to clear people, I use it as a way to crucify them if they play to a certain meta overall.
Plus, the hole in your logic is "I do it all the time" which means you can still be scum.
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On January 07 2010 09:56 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:51 Malongo wrote:On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge. READ ME BRO READ ME. Your first post and this subsequent post set has no real content in it. I really don't see why you wouldn't have posted more during the first round unless you were actively trying to stay under the radar. You might have restricted posting times, but that doesn't explain the lack of volume of content; why a single tiny post? I called you out in my first post, but you actively ignored it. The risk/reward for killing you with your activity is pretty favorable compared to killing judge. If judge is telling the truth, he's going to be an active asset to the town. If he isn't, his influence is going to be checked by me and ace at the minimum.
Now this is odd. Where did I say lynch judge over me? where? . So the thing is: you want a volume of post for day1 over nothing? I understand that a veteran like you like to post a lot about some stuff and try to call people out. However you are directly impliying some fake stuff a)I post a lot a the start of the games (this is absolutely fake and checkeable). b) If I try to stay under the radar im not blue (again fake and checkeable). So the thing here is how much are you going to push on your own will against a no contender.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 07 2010 09:54 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 06:25 Ace wrote:
what exceptional information? I really want to know this. To answer this question from way back, I have no idea what exceptional information. Judge says he's going to work his magic, that'll provide exceptional information one way or another. Perhaps I dressed up the wording too much. Anyway, I personally do not have a strong read on anybody at this point. I do not see the strength of the argument against Malongo, but if there's a tie between him and Judge at the end of the day I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him in that case. My strongest suspicion right now, however, is Mikeymoo. "Strongest suspicion" is kind of a misnomer since I don't have a strong read on anybody, but something about his posts so far have given me suspicion. I think he's being overly careful not to attract attention to himself while trying to provide some content. I will be able to get back to my computer about 20 minutes before the deadline. I'll make any necessary vote changes then.
Wow bad timing by me if that's what you think. I'm not even sure how that makes me suspicious when other people are also trying to keep attention away from themselves.
I'm just really confused right now. Usually my day 1 vote is pretty clear cut. This time though, I see no reason to kill Malongo (apart from keeping judge alive), and I don't care one way or the other if judge lives. I'm probably going to abstain in the end.
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I still say this (from the begginning of the game btw) if i have to pick someone its Rol to get lynched. Why im not voting him? ezpz: see theres a ton of discussion about me getting lynched. Even in the case im gone the town im sure the town will get the tradeback.
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On January 07 2010 10:05 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. Then you can't use it as a defense. And I don't use meta as a way to clear people, I use it as a way to crucify them if they play to a certain meta overall. Plus, the hole in your logic is "I do it all the time" which means you can still be scum.
But you made it sound earlier that defending innocents is a Mafia trait when I just proved to you that it is not. Hence why I called you out on it. You can't say me defending Malongo makes one or both of us scummy. There is no hole in my logic because I already admitted I do it regardless of my role.
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On January 07 2010 10:08 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:05 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. Then you can't use it as a defense. And I don't use meta as a way to clear people, I use it as a way to crucify them if they play to a certain meta overall. Plus, the hole in your logic is "I do it all the time" which means you can still be scum. But you made it sound earlier that defending innocents is a Mafia trait when I just proved to you that it is not. Hence why I called you out on it. You can't say me defending Malongo makes one or both of us scummy. There is no hole in my logic because I already admitted I do it regardless of my role.
I generally find it to be a scumtell, yes. I'm not going to beat a dead horse with this, I find it to be generally scummy, and combined with some other plays you've made, I think it's a scum attempt, not a town attempt.
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thats nice Judge. But like I've said before you shouldn't be surprised I'm not going for fake Medic claims.
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Now, assuming Judge is blue, i made this little list. Obviously this is just to offer up my thoughts/and summarize the thread, moreso, then actual concrete accusations, because , at least to me, there aren't any.
1. RebirthOfLeGend - obv. against judge , posts a lot of irrelevant info. about previous games. red
2. Ace - likewise, find it funny they agree with each other for once(not like, omg fish funny, just funny in general ) red
3. L green
4. vx70GTOJudgexv blue
5. Scamp - usually quiet when mafia, probably quiet if given a blue role as well. green
6. Zato-1 green
7. Chezinu - i dont see why he wouldn't keep up with his masquerade-ish style of posting if given a blue/red role therefore green
8. nemY - makes a case against judge red
+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 04:21 nemY wrote:My Problem with JudgeShow nested quote +On August 24 2009 14:27 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Here's the problem with the "medic claims" plan - the mod can discretionarily leave out any of those roles. So mafia can make a gambit and say "I'm the DT." and the medic only gets one DT claim. You bus one mafioso, since KP doesn't change. Medic announces "ydg is mafia" and then people lynch him and he is, DT is trusted. NK a townie. Town is down to 9, takes 5 to lynch. The fake-DT offers up an innocent. Town lynches someone else as long as the fake-DT's partner lays low. They nightkill the innocent. Down to 7, takes 4 to lynch. Another innocent is offered up. Another non-investigated player is lynched. Said innocent is NKed. Down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. Lylo for town. fake-DT offers an innocent, lynch the other, and GG. They NK the other non-medic and 2 mafiosos vote to lynch the medic next day. One mafioso is sacced to gain the trust of the town and then it's field day.
EDIT: That's just one scenario that could play out. You could have a medic only game in this format theoretically. The semi-openness is what makes it balanced. It's very hard for a semi-open format to be broken by a massclaim because you can have as many or as little of each role. was posted in the previous Mini-Mafia game here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99804¤tpage=20Now Judge specifically dismisses the idea of a anyone publicly roleclaiming and now he wants us to believe that it's ok with him? Are you suppose to be an exception to your own rule? You say you have a fail-safe plan? This game isn't designed to have fail-safe 100% guaranteed plans. Besides that, the track record with anybody publicly role-claiming before night one is zilch I believe (myself included). All they do is start needless chaos and mayhem (which is always in the best interests of the mafia). The best method for reducing this needless drama is getting rid of them early. This is why I'm voting to lynch Judge.
9. HeavOnEarth - seems to be the general consensus- green
10. Vivi57 - points out inactivity and gives some information in past games referring to scamp, also used the term +EV so <3 green
12. Mikeymoo - seems to be genuinely busy green
13. Malongo - reason im making this post, seems green to me green
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Now this is odd. Where did I say lynch judge over me? where? . So the thing is: you want a volume of post for day1 over nothing? I understand that a veteran like you like to post a lot about some stuff and try to call people out. However you are directly impliying some fake stuff a)I post a lot a the start of the games (this is absolutely fake and checkeable). b) If I try to stay under the radar im not blue (again fake and checkeable). So the thing here is how much are you going to push on your own will against a no contender. I didn't say you wanted to lynch judge over yourself. Other people did.
You were specifically called out as my first target to be lynched in my first post when I opened up the first day lynch discussion and you completely ignored it, posted nearly nothing. I really don't give a shit what you 'normally' do. I want people posting. I gave people fair warning, and specifically singled you out.
I'm not enamored with the idea of killing you; i'd rather kill RoL. I don't, however, want to risk getting judge killed by switching off and having you and another player swinging to get him killed.
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L if you're concerned about RoL why isn't anyone else voting for him? (besides me of course)
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mikey and malongo.... You guys are good.... "I abstain til the end".. Its like the ultimate defense... Its like saying I care more about the team than myself... How can I even vote for someone like that? It would be so cruel..
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Canada7170 Posts
I don't want malongo to die. I'm voting judge to get a no-lynch. I'm pretty sure malongo is innocent. I'm still 50/50 on judge, maybe 60/40 that he's town. I'd vote for a no-lynch but at this stage it's not going to happen.
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If anyone else wants it : judge's posting history. gonna read/review offer thoughts in a bit
+ Show Spoiler [Judge] ++ Show Spoiler [1] +On January 05 2010 17:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches make for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A MEDIC.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start this game off.
Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done. That will come on Day 2, but I can be. Second, it allows me to work in the open and play with mafia's head. I can make my own list towards the end of each day and force mafia to play a guessing game as to who on the list I will protect, if I will actually protect anyone from that list, or if it is worth it to try and kill me and will I protect myself.
2) As stated above, it will throw a major wrench into the mafias night-actions. They will not know if they are safe to try and kill me, or one of my targets. They don't know if there are other medics either who can protect me and/or my targets.
3) Mafia is now going to push to get me killed, either very boldly or subtly, via a lynch. This will give us a pool to work with of potential suspects. On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote:
Also isn't NemY the one that's supposed to claim medic on day one? Last time this happened the town got in a major BS argument day 1 and then won when our mafia leader ragequit because Vivi logged in 2 minutes late. Difference here is the fact that I know what I'm doing here. Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 20:13 Zato-1 wrote:
[1]Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime.
On a final note:
[2]Player list seems to be 12 people long. Are there 12 of us? If so, please fix the "11 of 11 players remain" on the OP. Also, if there's 12 players, how many mafia and how many townies are there? The OP suggests 8 townies and 3 mafia, but that adds up to 11.
Also, is role revealed after death, or merely which side you're on? [1] - We'll discuss protection options as the day draws near an end. I'm leaning towards L or Ace tonight, depending on how each plays. [2] - I think we're at 12 (9 & 3) and this should be full reveal, not limited flip. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this. It does a number of things - it can provide a confirmed townie which is the worst possible thing for mafia to have to go up against, because it's someone that no matter what, they cannot push a lynch on, and worst of all - I'm not one of the top players in the game, so I'm not someone they want to waste a NK on either. Even if I'm barking up the completely wrong tree they have to try and kill me because they can't get me lynched once I'm confirmed. It forces mafia to play a guessing game. Sure, they had to play one before, but it was minimized. Now, they have to try and outguess the entire town. I can ask the town directly - who do we want to keep protected tonight and form a list. Mafia players will either have to sacrifice a potential target and put him up on the list or out themselves with a ridiculous choice and/or not post at all. Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect. Doctor can be a much more powerful role out in the open. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him.
I wouldn't direct a vig to hit anyone and protect that, because our vigs are one-shot. There are later plans for any vigs. Regarding the DT, I have a plan for any potential DTs we have, but that steps in on D2. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers. I'm a medic though. And I'm trying to do something different because I've seen it work, I've seen this tactic in play. Besides, as odd of a defense as it is, this is nowhere near my scum meta, even if I was GF. I much prefer to push attention away from myself, because I'm prone to fuckups if I try and be too active. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well. The ability to be a confirmed townie and force mafia to adapt uncomfortably. The ability to force mafia into a guessing game. The ability to bring the town together and become a town leader here. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it.
So we have 2 topics of interest now:
1) Medic claim
2) Who y'all wanna kill It does seem odd that no one is talking about it. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote:
I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics?
This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format. I can protect myself. That was the kicker. It might not make sense for there to be two medics, but there very well could be. We don't know, and I don't try and out-guess the mod, no matter what the most likely scenario of "who should be scum" or "Why would he do this". @Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you. Also, for a kill, I say if he doesn't really put effort into it, Chezinu should be the day 1 lynch. No matter what he flips, it's a win for town. On January 06 2010 08:28 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 06:40 Vivi57 wrote:
Judge is probably vet or gf. Either way, using a rolecheck on him is a waste because it tells us nothing. Or I'm a medic. And because everyone wants to know: Yes, the plan does involve a DT R/C on me. Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect. See, I believe you're rather correct when you say there's a guessing game going on, but I don't know why you'd do it in person, rather than through a mouth. Additionally, I don't see why pretending to be a mouth and posting late in the day rather than early would have harmed you or your goals here. So what mindgames are here that weren't here previously? The only real difference in the 'try to dodge the medic list member' roulette is the fact that you've painted a sign on your forehead. While you may have seen this used in the past, the 9 man format doesn't have a godfather, and doesn't have the possibility of multiple medics; the bluff is far simpler to make here, whereas its a massively ballsy move in a game of 9 man to claim doc as mafia; that's why its so powerful there. Actually, I read it first used in a 12 man closed setup. No clue as to whether a GF was there or not. Could have been two medics, could have been 5. Nothing was known. This is semi-open which makes it just as effective. Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia and my mouth could be mafia providing a plethora of problems. If I pretended to be a mouth, there could be the problem of "He might be mafia." and then I would be outed as medic sooner or later, leading to questions why I chose to fake using a mouth. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
Additionally, I have further issues; As you note, the timing of this is odd; you can't reveal a bunch of your 'plan' because a bunch of night roles simply aren't able to act yet. I can somewhat waive this on my own because I typically play in the same manner. Actually, it isn't because night roles can't act yet, it's because I'm keeping mafia on their toes. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.
How exactly are you going to confirm anyone?
The objective elements of your claim are an increase in attention on you, which speaks to a godfather, vet, vig or green role. You most certainly aren't the DT, or a normal mafia member. I wasn't going to claim any confirmation through a protection. I was going to wait until just before day ended and bark some orders, matter of fact. Also, in a setup like this, as a scum-gambit to false claim doc and fake confirmation there is no major gain. BTW, you're catching on with the last part - none of my actions fit the profile of a medic, which can cause people to question the veracity. I am the medic, but how much are the mafia going to believe that? The plan works in a few parts. The first part is the claim. The second part is making it through the day and establishing a plan for the night in terms of protections. Third part involves a DT rolechecking me. Day 2 I will explain at the beginning of Day 2. If I lay out the entire plan right now, the plan is lost. On January 06 2010 09:16 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 09:00 L wrote:Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification. Touche. Show nested quote +Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW? HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS. Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo Clarification: I could easily pick a mafioso as my mouth, and all information would flow through him, and thus to others. Generally, a mouth this early on is stupid. Is it the greatest position to leave me out in the open today? No. But I don't have to worry about going to a potential mouth, PMing him and having him not come forward with the information. On January 07 2010 03:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Unfortunately the town does not see the benefits of my maneuver, but you will in time. Get me through to tomorrow and this game will be very much in our control.
Stop asking questions about the plan, because the more I lay out now, the less effective it is. Right now it is 9 hours to deadline, and a slew of people have decided to go under. Let's figure out which one of them is going to be a lynch candidate tonight, and at 10:50 PM EST I will lay out the night phase of my plan for you all to see.
I've got a pretty good feeling that this is going to catch one mafia tonight, if you just let me work my magic. On January 07 2010 04:25 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
nemY - I honestly forgot about that. I also hadn't seen this plan in use when I had made that post, fwiw. That post was some 5 months ago. I've played about 9 games since then and read plenty more.
And this is a different plan from that, trust me :D
Scamp, I'm trying to remember the game # of where I last saw it used, when I do I'll link it. On January 07 2010 04:30 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Wow. You guys are fucking retarded.
Do I have to spell out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ACTION for you?
Because I might as well before the lynch, if you plan on killing me tonight - let me know so I can explain how this would've worked. On January 07 2010 04:30 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
BTW - Ace is mafia, calling it now. On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
General responses:
I've said part of it before. The first objective of the claim was to allow me to work out in the open, scare scum and also because I do have a plan. The second objective is to put myself in a position to lead the town in the right direction, because otherwise we'd be voting to no-lynch today, which on Day 1 is an awful play.
You think it's scummy that I don't give out every detail of my plan? That's great. Unfortunately, as I've re-iterated before and I'll do again, giving out every detail of my plan makes it useless.
Let me help you all out and put this claim in perspective from both points of view:
From a Town-aligned point of view: I am a medic. I can sit back, hope not to draw too much attention to me during the day or the night and try and protect the right hits. OR I can come out in the open and claim. Thus, the mafia is now wondering a myriad of things. Am I the real medic? Am I bluffing? Can they hit me successfully? Will I protect the people I list? Will they hit the one I protect? If he's not the medic, we'll be able to get him lynched, but if he is, we might not. Do we try and kill him at night?
Now I have one-up on the mafia. I don't need to outguess them. I'll protect who I choose to and wait.
If you think a medic's only use is to absorb kills, you're dead wrong.
From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.
This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective. On January 07 2010 09:11 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:07 mikeymoo wrote:On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.
This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective. Small point: I can't see why mafia would claim medic and pass on a night kill. A night miss can still be regarded as Vet, right? It still makes some sense (I guess?) to claim medic, just not passing on a night kill. It was just a possible way for mafia to try and confirm themselves being the medic. Obviously the vet throws it off as does the no confirmation via PM of a save. On January 07 2010 09:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:13 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge? There's still some 4 hours left to the day, I will though. Any input from players on who I should protect from the town? On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts.
Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead.
L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid.
RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm.
The rest are null-reads as well.
Except Malongo. He reads mafia. On January 07 2010 09:39 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:33 Malongo wrote:
I still dont see much gain from mafia to fakeclaim, thats why im inclined to think judge isnt mafia. Im really trusting the "other" blues here. Btw some votes on me are really lol votes, im not gonna defend myself but the only guy that has a "reason" to lynch me is L and he is based on previous games. Zato thinks im mafia because I was making separate groups. Funny shit the guys that i say im inclined to trust are insta voting me (L and judge) what do you think zato-1? I originally voted you to force a no-lynch and save my sorry ass from being idiot-lynched. Now I'm voting you because your one "real" post in the thread reeked of active lurking, a wonderful scum tactic, of coming in and providing nothing but fluff and lack of contribution to the game. You barely put anything new on the table, then disappeared for a lovely 24 hours. You come back and again provide nothing new to the discussion, and get all OMGUS on me for calling you out. On January 07 2010 09:40 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
HoE, does that answer your post? On January 07 2010 09:46 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. The first part still reeks of anti-town nature at minimum, mafia nature more likely. The second part - huh? On January 07 2010 09:47 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
BTW, Ace, might want to work on getting that tunnel vision checked out. On January 07 2010 09:52 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. Generally, a player voicing opposition to a bandwagon with little case is a mafia member trying to either prevent his partner from being lynched or trying to get townie credit by opposing a wagon on a townie. This is my experience. Also, I see no reason to switch to RoL at the moment. He's a null read to me. On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense.
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Canada7170 Posts
Wow bad timing again lol, but my vote is still just!
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That voting thread sure is something else.
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Canada7170 Posts
I was typing in this page when you were typing in the vote thread, Chez.
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I noticed, I'm still thinking about my vote..
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Canada7170 Posts
I find it funny that I have to tell the mafia forum that I will brb because of groceries.
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On January 07 2010 10:22 Ace wrote:
L if you're concerned about RoL why isn't anyone else voting for him? (besides me of course)
Because they're similarly constrained.
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On January 07 2010 09:52 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. The convincing argument is pretty obvious; He's a poor player as you've already accepted, his 6 consecutive posts are emotive and generally content poor. If you prefer him dying to malongo, then you'll switch.
Just to respond to this shit which I have seen mentioned like 8 times.
Where the hell does emotion come up in my post at all? I will be as aggressive as I want because I am trying to play devil's advocate in games.
Also L, your right. Lynch me I am a bad player. Way worse than Malongo, you or the other 9 people in this game at the moment.
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ok, we have 2.5 hours left so I'm going to offer another option:
Zato
read the posts between zato and judge carefully. They have a dialogue going where they agree about the big things while arguing about fairly small details. There's definitely some kind of alliance going on there. Right when the wagon seemed to be gaining speed against judge, he comes out and accuses malongo.
I feel like there's a really good chance that judge flips gf if zato flips red so we gain alot of information from zato's death.
I was going to get mikeymoo for inactivity, but that's changed and I really don't like the wagon of scamp and chez following me so I'm going to change my vote to zato.
I still strongly believe judge should live until tomorrow.
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I also REALLY REALLY want this one fucking question answered L.
HOW DO WE CONFIRM JUDGE?
Me, Ace and a few others have said how it is literally impossible. You say it is, please. Give me a reason to believe he CAN be confirmed and I will change my vote.
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On January 07 2010 10:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Where the hell does emotion come up in my post at all?
is that anger?
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On January 07 2010 10:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:52 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. The convincing argument is pretty obvious; He's a poor player as you've already accepted, his 6 consecutive posts are emotive and generally content poor. If you prefer him dying to malongo, then you'll switch. Just to respond to this shit which I have seen mentioned like 8 times. Where the hell does emotion come up in my post at all? I will be as aggressive as I want because I am trying to play devil's advocate in games. Also L, your right. Lynch me I am a bad player. Way worse than Malongo, you or the other 9 people in this game at the moment.
Where is the emotion? I don't even need to go back; I've bolded your current post to highlight the emotive content. The sarcasm in the last part is a rather nice cherry on the top.
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I know L is laughing very hard right now
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On January 07 2010 10:48 Ace wrote:
I know L is laughing very hard right now
You have no idea.
As for how to confirm judge, I'd rather not tell the mafia prior their hit tonight. Once tomorrow rolls around you'll know a lot more.
Suffice it to say, you should be smart enough to think of at least 2 methods of confirming him.
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On January 07 2010 10:45 Vivi57 wrote:
ok, we have 2.5 hours left so I'm going to offer another option:
Zato
read the posts between zato and judge carefully. They have a dialogue going where they agree about the big things while arguing about fairly small details. There's definitely some kind of alliance going on there. Right when the wagon seemed to be gaining speed against judge, he comes out and accuses malongo.
I feel like there's a really good chance that judge flips gf if zato flips red so we gain alot of information from zato's death.
I was going to get mikeymoo for inactivity, but that's changed and I really don't like the wagon of scamp and chez following me so I'm going to change my vote to zato.
I still strongly believe judge should live until tomorrow.
There's no alliance that I know of.
Zato, do we have an alliance?
You're barking up the wrong tree. Malongo has defined active lurking in this game and people refuse to put an end to it. They would rather see a no-lynch and give mafia a freebie than take action. -_-
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On January 07 2010 10:18 HeavOnEarth wrote:Now, assuming Judge is blue, i made this little list. Obviously this is just to offer up my thoughts/and summarize the thread, moreso, then actual concrete accusations, because , at least to me, there aren't any. 1. RebirthOfLeGend - obv. against judge , posts a lot of irrelevant info. about previous games. red2. Ace - likewise, find it funny they agree with each other for once(not like, omg fish funny, just funny in general ) red3. L green4. vx70GTOJudgexv blue5. Scamp - usually quiet when mafia, probably quiet if given a blue role as well. green6. Zato-1 green7. Chezinu - i dont see why he wouldn't keep up with his masquerade-ish style of posting if given a blue/red role therefore green8. nemY - makes a case against judge red[spoiler] 9. HeavOnEarth - seems to be the general consensus- green10. Vivi57 - points out inactivity and gives some information in past games referring to scamp, also used the term +EV so <3 green12. Mikeymoo - seems to be genuinely busy green13. Malongo - reason im making this post, seems green to me green
This is just dumb. I referenced last game because I was attacked about it. Literally EVERYTHING else I wrote refers to Judge role claiming.
Me and Ace have agreed on previous occasions, it just usually breaks up somewhere down the line. I am sure it will happen again when we disagree on something. Killing Judge is in the best interest of the town because of what I said before. Any claimer hopes the town is just indecisive enough to not kill him because he just might be blue. This is the shit that will just drag us down with the same argument until we eventually kill Judge.
I am too lazy to point out most of your list, but I generally disagree with almost the entire thing. At this point I would say L, Zato-1, and Judge look the most likely mafia to me.
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I forgot using swear words to convey a stronger meaning on a sentence all of a sudden means emotion.
Sorry, I will post like spock from now on.
On January 07 2010 09:56 L wrote:
The risk/reward for killing you with your activity is pretty favorable compared to killing judge. If judge is telling the truth, he's going to be an active asset to the town. If he isn't, his influence is going to be checked by me and ace at the minimum.
This is the exact mentality any role caller goes for. Lets hope they really really worry about killing me IF I am blue. Feeding into that mentality just gets us more confused down the road because we still have that UNCONFIRMED role caller.
You still haven't said it though L, How do we confirm Judge? There is no harm in saying it. In fact there is less harm in saying it. Imagine if you die without this confirmation plan being revealed? Everyone else is clearly too dumb to realize he can be confirmed.
Killing judge is the best plan so far, and I will stick it through. You guys voting Malongo are most likely about to kill a Townie.
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EBWOP: I meant to have those both as one post but I got distracted by girlfriend.
OH WELL +3 FOR ME LAWLLLLL
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it wasn't meant for accusations RoL- you missed the point entirely =/
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This is the exact mentality any role caller goes for. Lets hope they really really worry about killing me IF I am blue. Feeding into that mentality just gets us more confused down the road because we still have that UNCONFIRMED role caller.
You still haven't said it though L, How do we confirm Judge? There is no harm in saying it. In fact there is less harm in saying it. Imagine if you die without this confirmation plan being revealed? Everyone else is clearly too dumb to realize he can be confirmed. I've already told you: you will find out tomorrow. Feel free to kill me if I can't magically produce a confirmation method, because I can.
There's PLENTY of harm that can come from saying it.
On the other side; that's the rationale of every rolecaller; no shit. That's why people claim in response to being put up for lynch; judge put himself up when he was a 0% chance first day lynch. Think about it.
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On January 07 2010 10:59 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:45 Vivi57 wrote:
ok, we have 2.5 hours left so I'm going to offer another option:
Zato
read the posts between zato and judge carefully. They have a dialogue going where they agree about the big things while arguing about fairly small details. There's definitely some kind of alliance going on there. Right when the wagon seemed to be gaining speed against judge, he comes out and accuses malongo.
I feel like there's a really good chance that judge flips gf if zato flips red so we gain alot of information from zato's death.
I was going to get mikeymoo for inactivity, but that's changed and I really don't like the wagon of scamp and chez following me so I'm going to change my vote to zato.
I still strongly believe judge should live until tomorrow. There's no alliance that I know of. Zato, do we have an alliance? You're barking up the wrong tree. Malongo has defined active lurking in this game and people refuse to put an end to it. They would rather see a no-lynch and give mafia a freebie than take action. -_-
You damn fadsafads how can you possibly say im active lurking? im participating as much as im able to. I dont care about your rocleclaim: its useless in terms of trustability thats obvious. Its gain if your town (decieves mafia) and its gain if you are mafia (keeps you in the spotlight). I said it before: im going with the other blues playing solid. If you want to lynch me go ahead, still i better lynch Rol instead of me or a no lynch. Im not voting RoL for the simple reason that at this point its not in my choice.
Now this is basic logic:
I say: hey i think judge and L are town side, then zato: hey malongo is mafia because he thinks L and judge are town he is trying to make separate groups..... now zato1, judge and HOV insta-call (chezinu semibluffs) the preflop raise from L that im mafia. Now if you have 1 brain cell you can tell my allignment.
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On January 07 2010 11:19 Malongo wrote:
You damn fadsafads how can you possibly say im active lurking? im participating as much as im able to. I dont care about your rocleclaim: its useless in terms of trustability thats obvious. Its gain if your town (decieves mafia) and its gain if you are mafia (keeps you in the spotlight). I said it before: im going with the other blues playing solid. If you want to lynch me go ahead, still i better lynch Rol instead of me or a no lynch. Im not voting RoL for the simple reason that at this point its not in my choice.
You may also have a hint of passive lurking due to constraints. But the bottom line is, you have given the town FUCKING NOTHING today. I don't care where you stand on the claim. I care what you have contributed to the town, and that's a big fat fucking 0. But you're claiming you've done something.
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Im inclined to believe L and judge are town. I think theres a gain on lynching RoL because RoL red=> Scamp red (I posted the reasoning clearly). I dont see a bad thing a medic claim because theres gain and no-lose as long as the other blues keep playing smart. Just to add more Milkymoo and Ace can see (or they know) im not really mafia. You can find better candidates to active_lurking boy (and yet again no im not active_lurking i proposed first post to lynch RoL). Given all the post garbage against me im now almost sure all this come from my first post aka lynch RoL.
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Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later.
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On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote:
Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later.
thats a lie, it wasn't Ace! I think I forgot to tell you who it was..
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On January 07 2010 11:33 Malongo wrote:Im inclined to believe L and judge are town. I think theres a gain on lynching RoL because RoL red=> Scamp red (I posted the reasoning clearly). I dont see a bad thing a medic claim because theres gain and no-lose as long as the other blues keep playing smart. Just to add more Milkymoo and Ace can see (or they know) im not really mafia. You can find better candidates to active_lurking boy (and yet again no im not active_lurking i proposed first post to lynch RoL). Given all the post garbage against me im now almost sure all this come from my first post aka lynch RoL.
Why are you still fighting? I'm going to die anyways :D
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I'm gonna leave for a bit - if I'm not back by deadline and I get lynched, I'll explain everything in postgame.
If I do live, I need a DT to investigate me to further carry out this plan. It WILL continue this as long as you play along with it, got it?
Good.
Peace.
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On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote:
Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later.
stop grasping at straws. I haven't even spoken to Chezinu all game.
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On January 07 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote:
Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later. stop grasping at straws. I haven't even spoken to Chezinu all game.
hi Ace!
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shit, the claim was dubious, but wanting to absorb a dt check is just awful. Everyone knows you're going to turn up blue no matter what so the check is 100% wasted regardless of whether you're medic, vet, or gf.
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On January 07 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote:
Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later. stop grasping at straws. I haven't even spoken to Chezinu all game.
Stop arguing with your alter ego... pfff way to go with the multi-personality disorder.
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On January 07 2010 07:40 mikeymoo wrote:
I've thought about this for almost a day now, and I still don't understand judge's move.
I agree with L and Vivi. I think there is a case for judge being Medic or Vet, and even if there's a chance for him being GF, we might want to keep him around.
On the other hand, I have been thinking about this from a Medic's point of view for about a day, and it seems just like the rest of us, have come up dry in justifying this move. (Or at least publicly) It seems too valiant to be a townie protecting the real Medic, since it is unlikely the real Medic gets lynched on day 1 anyway. Which makes me lean toward Vet, but if that's the case, why make this move during the day? So to judge: can you answer if there was a good reason you claimed during the day?
Who else is a good candidate? I'm going to look through the thread again, but nobody has struck me. I might abstain tonight if I can't find a good case (or be otherwise convinced) for someone else.
Incognito, would you like me to edit my vote, or post a new one, if i decide to switch?
If you decide to change your vote please make a new post; do not edit your votes.
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one more hour...and no one is yelling...does that mean the mafia are happy with the votes?
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On January 07 2010 08:40 L wrote:
Additionally; I think its a rather important point that while there's a significant proportion of us that are voting for a non-judge lynch, we haven't really discussed who should be the target of that lynch.
I'm going to stay on malongo for now not out of spite for him (he's in mountain time and can't post), but because judge was 2:2 and losing the tiebreaker. Now even if malongo swings on judge to save himself, someone else needs to come out and risk their neck to kill judge.
As far as actual GOOD targets, RoL seems like the most lynchable mafia-tell producing person. I honestly don't think you're a terrible player, RoL, but I think your posts this game have been really odd.
There is no tie-breaker. Tie votes end in a no lynch.
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hmm, so I get to decide who I want to kill or I can make it a tie...
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Im going to sleep around 13:00 KST. Please people stop telling im lurking or not adding stuff.
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On January 07 2010 12:01 Chezinu wrote:
one more hour...and no one is yelling...does that mean the mafia are happy with the votes?
Yeah, why would you say that if you're the one who threw the deciding vote?
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I'm waiting here too! I can't wait to vote change last second!
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On January 07 2010 11:46 Vivi57 wrote:
shit, the claim was dubious, but wanting to absorb a dt check is just awful. Everyone knows you're going to turn up blue no matter what so the check is 100% wasted regardless of whether you're medic, vet, or gf.
Stop being so narrowminded. The check will not be wasted, I guarantee.
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Yeah, my plans fizzled out. People are bitches, so I'm back -_-
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so judge why should I let you live?
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30 minutes... Do you want me to kill you judge?
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On January 07 2010 12:25 Chezinu wrote:
so judge why should I let you live?
I haven't outlined this yet? How about the fact that I have a plan that will elevate the towns chances of success, and I'm the medic.
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On January 07 2010 12:30 Chezinu wrote:
30 minutes... Do you want me to kill you judge?
What are you going to say when i flip town? upss... shit happens?
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Malongo you can save yourself...
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On January 07 2010 12:44 Chezinu wrote:
Malongo you can save yourself...
The fact that you are "forcing" me to save my ass is quite strange to say the least for a player that has a very random voting pattern care to explain why now you want to pick me?
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Scamp still hasn't voted yet he is pming me...
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On January 07 2010 12:44 Chezinu wrote:
Malongo you can save yourself...
?
are you serious?
so you just flip flop voted multiple times, and now if Malongo dies and flips innocent you can say he had a chance to "save himself". lol interesting really.
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I just got back and I finished reading the thread.
Also: Hi NemY!
The only thing I don't want is a no-lynch. I'd prefer Malongo over Judge. I think those are my only options.
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good you vote malongo then and malongo may chose to save himself
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chezinu if you are town you are just walking over a pile of lurkers.
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You see there are no mafia fighting therefore I want no lynch.
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No lynch = no information at all. That's the worst result IMO.
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Everyone fast lynch Chezinu XD
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EBWOP:
I mean really, what are we going to lose?
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so you want to die judge?
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On January 07 2010 12:50 Scamp wrote:
I just got back and I finished reading the thread.
Also: Hi NemY!
The only thing I don't want is a no-lynch. I'd prefer Malongo over Judge. I think those are my only options.
This is nice. Why exactly? Remember my first post? Quite interesting given the fact that you where ultra-tight up to now.
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Canada7170 Posts
My vote stays, I'm afraid with potential flip flopping I might mess something up -_-
This is kinda funny though.
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On January 07 2010 12:55 Chezinu wrote:
so you want to die judge?
More of you're playing like a jackass and shouldn't be permitted into another game of Mafia for the rest of your life.
Once again, you're at the stupid shit.
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Because I want information. I don't want another day one.
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On January 07 2010 12:57 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 12:50 Scamp wrote:
I just got back and I finished reading the thread.
Also: Hi NemY!
The only thing I don't want is a no-lynch. I'd prefer Malongo over Judge. I think those are my only options. This is nice. Why exactly? Remember my first post? Quite interesting given the fact that you where were ultra-tight up to now.
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both of you don't want each other dead, yet you both don't want a no lynch..
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On January 07 2010 11:33 Malongo wrote:Im inclined to believe L and judge are town. I think theres a gain on lynching RoL because RoL red=> Scamp red (I posted the reasoning clearly). I dont see a bad thing a medic claim because theres gain and no-lose as long as the other blues keep playing smart. Just to add more Milkymoo and Ace can see (or they know) im not really mafia. You can find better candidates to active_lurking boy (and yet again no im not active_lurking i proposed first post to lynch RoL). Given all the post garbage against me im now almost sure all this come from my first post aka lynch RoL.
I tried defending you earlier and giving you the benefit of the doubt but this is just retarded. You want to kill me because I simply said we shouldn't kill people based on INACTIVITY in previous games? That is ridiculous.
On January 07 2010 11:41 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
I'm gonna leave for a bit - if I'm not back by deadline and I get lynched, I'll explain everything in postgame.
If I do live, I need a DT to investigate me to further carry out this plan. It WILL continue this as long as you play along with it, got it?
Good.
Peace.
How could a DT checking you do anything we wouldn't expect it to do? I mean the only surprise would be if you actually flip red and make the DT out himself by announcing that you came back red.
Also there doesn't have to be a DT. Why do you guys keep assuming there is one? Last game i assumed there must bet a Vet and the only vet in the game was L as godfather.
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On January 07 2010 12:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Everyone fast lynch Chezinu XD
seriously I would
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I'm very sure my motivations will be questioned a lot.
I don't think I've been ultra-tight. I just haven't gotten a strong read on anyone, though my gut says Mikey.
Thanks for correcting your own grammar.
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On January 07 2010 13:00 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 12:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Everyone fast lynch Chezinu XD seriously I would
Too late now.
@RoL. I will EXPLAIN in the Day 2 phase of things. FFS show a little more trust and a little less paranoia about "OMG HE'S BURNING A DT CHECK."
If anything, a DT check will be burned regardless of whether he checks me or someone else in your eyes. He's going to have to second guess his result no matter what.
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Alright Judge, well I guess you get the benefit of the doubt from most of the town now. Lets see what you have in store for the next day.
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Also please find those links I asked for a while back.
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On January 07 2010 13:02 Scamp wrote:
I'm very sure my motivations will be questioned a lot.
I don't think I've been ultra-tight. I just haven't gotten a strong read on anyone, though my gut says Mikey.
Thanks for correcting your own grammar.
you just got out of nowhere to change your vote.
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EBWOP because I'm just posting off the hilt atm.
@RoL - I'm making the assumption that there is a DT off of the constant nagging of people saying on this forum "There has to be a DT/Medic combo or else it's rape against Town."
For the record, DT/Medic is an overpowered combination in pretty much every open game if it isn't balanced out by multiple KP or a mafia roleblocker. DT can outright claim and have the medic stay in hiding and just protect him every night while he investigates while the mafia has to blindly try and snipe the medic. By then a slew of confirmed townies pop up and it's GG for mafia. We luck out in the fact that we generally use multiple KP or these games would be busted wide open by any competent two players.
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Scamp - I have one link of it working a perfect success in the semi-open 9 man setup that I frequent. I cannot for the life of me remember the Mini 12 man closed that it was in and there's about 900 games on MS. I will try and find it, but bear with me if I don't.
Also, my plan is a modification on the tactic.
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On January 07 2010 13:07 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
EBWOP because I'm just posting off the hilt atm.
@RoL - I'm making the assumption that there is a DT off of the constant nagging of people saying on this forum "There has to be a DT/Medic combo or else it's rape against Town."
For the record, DT/Medic is an overpowered combination in pretty much every open game if it isn't balanced out by multiple KP or a mafia roleblocker. DT can outright claim and have the medic stay in hiding and just protect him every night while he investigates while the mafia has to blindly try and snipe the medic. By then a slew of confirmed townies pop up and it's GG for mafia. We luck out in the fact that we generally use multiple KP or these games would be busted wide open by any competent two players.
I said this a few pages back. DT/Medic is also somewhat busted by GF roles, but only somewhat.
And the reason you need DT/Medic is because without both Mafia is just going to run wild killing everyone and people will be scared to post knowing they have no protection.
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Night 1:
After a lot of commotion and a lunatic-changing-his-vote-50-times, the town decided to lop off Malongo's head. So he was lead to the guillotine, where his head rolled into a basket and was baked into a pie.
All roles send in your actions for the night. You have until 8:00 PM tomorrow.
I apologize if my post confused anybody, but I am going to end the day nevertheless.
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On January 07 2010 13:06 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:02 Scamp wrote:
I'm very sure my motivations will be questioned a lot.
I don't think I've been ultra-tight. I just haven't gotten a strong read on anyone, though my gut says Mikey.
Thanks for correcting your own grammar. you just got out of nowhere to change your vote.
I got out of the gym, actually. And now that I think about it you didn't save yourself, which means you're town. Which means I fucked up.
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On January 07 2010 13:09 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:07 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
EBWOP because I'm just posting off the hilt atm.
@RoL - I'm making the assumption that there is a DT off of the constant nagging of people saying on this forum "There has to be a DT/Medic combo or else it's rape against Town."
For the record, DT/Medic is an overpowered combination in pretty much every open game if it isn't balanced out by multiple KP or a mafia roleblocker. DT can outright claim and have the medic stay in hiding and just protect him every night while he investigates while the mafia has to blindly try and snipe the medic. By then a slew of confirmed townies pop up and it's GG for mafia. We luck out in the fact that we generally use multiple KP or these games would be busted wide open by any competent two players. I said this a few pages back. DT/Medic is also somewhat busted by GF roles, but only somewhat. And the reason you need DT/Medic is because without both Mafia is just going to run wild killing everyone and people will be scared to post knowing they have no protection.
GF, Millers and such can slightly hinder it, but in the setting I described (open game, 1 mafia KP and just "goons" with a GF") it can't out and out break it. If you know there are millers, you can obviously be like "I had a blank read" and with GF eventually there's going to be a point where you have 1 cop, 2 townies (1 GF) and no one else, and the cop and townie are going to figure out the GF.
In semi-open or closed setups, you don't need anything. I've seen town win 12 man closed mountainous setups. Is it more difficult? Absolutely, but it's not impossible. Setups without PRs are not bastardized setups by any means.
But this is more mafia discussion and not so much game-related. I'm just using our general assumption that we have a DT.
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Malongo: (5)
Zato-1
vx70GTOJudgexv
L
HeavOnEarth
Scamp
Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do.
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On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do.
Yeah, shoulda switched your vote to RoL, eh Ace?
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Not at all. More like the random out of the blue bandwagon that you guys put on Malongo was the wrong call.
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On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do.
I'm much more inclined to believe mafia was off of this lynch, but that's my opinion right now.
I feel that mafia sit back and let this one happen.
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On January 07 2010 13:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Malongo: (5)
Zato-1
vx70GTOJudgexv
L
HeavOnEarth
Scamp
Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. I'm much more inclined to believe mafia was off of this lynch, but that's my opinion right now. I feel that mafia sit back and let this one happen.
Thats what I was thinking, tried to tie it at the end, was hoping Malongo would tie it.
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lol im dead. thank you mr.... wtf goodbye post.
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On January 07 2010 13:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Malongo: (5)
Zato-1
vx70GTOJudgexv
L
HeavOnEarth
Scamp
Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. I'm much more inclined to believe mafia was off of this lynch, but that's my opinion right now. I feel that mafia sit back and let this one happen.
I don't. 5 out of 12 possible votes and not one of them Mafia? I highly doubt it.
Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects:
Judge, obviously ^_^
Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping
Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle
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Canada7170 Posts
Okay, I'm sleeping now and have school until 5 local tomorrow. Once I get home I get to witness 3 hours of night phase, so please nobody hop on my ass for being "inactive". I'll try to check in the morning but no promises. Oh well, I guess it's night phase anyway.
Also, I don't know why Malongo didn't save himself. What info did we gain from this? Malongo's not mafia, which I suspected. Cool. Am I missing something?
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On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote:
Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects:
Judge, obviously ^_^
Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping
Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle
Yes, I would be very surprised if I wasn't heavily interrogated day 2 for my actions at the end of day one.
I would like to know, however, your opinions of my decision to try to avoid a no-lynch. No one commented on this. I think that a no-lynch is worse than any lynch day one.
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On January 07 2010 13:31 mikeymoo wrote:
Okay, I'm sleeping now and have school until 5 local tomorrow. Once I get home I get to witness 3 hours of night phase, so please nobody hop on my ass for being "inactive". I'll try to check in the morning but no promises. Oh well, I guess it's night phase anyway.
Also, I don't know why Malongo didn't save himself. What info did we gain from this? Malongo's not mafia, which I suspected. Cool. Am I missing something? He could have tied it up, but I suppose he was worried about someone tipping judge over the top, which would have probably resulted in his death the next day. If judge was town, town would lose 2 lynches and that would largely be gg
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On January 07 2010 13:32 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote:
Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects:
Judge, obviously ^_^
Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping
Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle Yes, I would be very surprised if I wasn't heavily interrogated day 2 for my actions at the end of day one. I would like to know, however, your opinions of my decision to try to avoid a no-lynch. No one commented on this. I think that a no-lynch is worse than any lynch day one.
I'd actually rather we have had a no lynch. I was already against the Malongo band wagon from jump and since he didn't really do much his death wasn't going to reveal anything major. Well now that he's dead everyone that voted for him is rightfully going to be questioned.
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On January 07 2010 13:31 mikeymoo wrote:
Okay, I'm sleeping now and have school until 5 local tomorrow. Once I get home I get to witness 3 hours of night phase, so please nobody hop on my ass for being "inactive". I'll try to check in the morning but no promises. Oh well, I guess it's night phase anyway.
Also, I don't know why Malongo didn't save himself. What info did we gain from this? Malongo's not mafia, which I suspected. Cool. Am I missing something?
Braaaaaaaains!!!!
am i allowed to this no?
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well, what were you guys expecting honestly?
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On January 07 2010 13:31 mikeymoo wrote:
Okay, I'm sleeping now and have school until 5 local tomorrow. Once I get home I get to witness 3 hours of night phase, so please nobody hop on my ass for being "inactive". I'll try to check in the morning but no promises. Oh well, I guess it's night phase anyway.
Also, I don't know why Malongo didn't save himself. What info did we gain from this? Malongo's not mafia, which I suspected. Cool. Am I missing something?
Yeah, your missing something. I confirmed you 100% mafia. I was fishing for mafia via pm's and caught you. Then you were "too scared to vote". GG. One mafia down.
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Well this is fun. I can't believe anyone fucking lynched malongo. What the fuck was the point? He clearly wasn't mafia.
But whatever that's in the past now. Lets see Judge's plan in action and then L somehow confirming that judge is the medic.
Just for fun, the three people I suspected of being mafia voted malongo. Zato-1, L, and Judge. I just want that said for whatever happens in the future.
But hey Judge, I guess I am done with the kill you bandwagon. Lets see some results!
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Wow be smarter town please?
So let me get this straight Judge, your plan hinges on a modification of a somewhat solid plan used in a previous mafia game? Love it! That being said I almost feel like we should keep you alive since you maybe have a halfway decent plan... oh wait that's right you role claimed medic at the start of the game and are now trying to convince us to believe your plan based on trust!, what a nobel idea! Because nobody ever lies in a game of mafia!
I seriously feel like everyone that voted malongo is either mafia, idiots or most likely both. There's seriously no reason for anyone to have fucking voted for him; yes i get that it's hard to peg someone in the beginning and that the first lynch is essentially a random pick, but there are plenty worse players to pick from than him. I mean come on both L and Ace made a list of people who essentially suck, or don't contribute anything productive! I was a better pick to lynch then malongo, yet you guys decided to blindly stumble upon a solid player and kill him over what? someone who did something fishy/shady/stupid? Great thinking guys! Any other bright ideas?
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By the way don't take anything I say as me slamming the town and saying the game is over, its far from it. Merely take it as constructive criticism from how I feel the town has handled certain situations so far.
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Malongo isn't really a solid player. But I do agree with you on rest of it. The lynch was fucking stupid.
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I like how the two players I specifically prodded into switching votes, so that we wouldn't end up killing malongo are now raging about the fact that we killed malongo rather than a poorer player.
Can't have it both ways, champ.
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I guess inactivity is to be expected for this night?
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Night ends in about 4.5 hours. If you have not yet gotten your night actions in please send them in before then.
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I curious is the mafia are going to attempt to kill me...I'm oh so paranoid! So, I'll be here if you want to talk RoL. I almost wanted to say some other stuff but I resisted...
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On January 08 2010 08:34 Chezinu wrote:
I curious is the mafia are going to attempt to kill me...I'm oh so paranoid! So, I'll be here if you want to talk RoL. I almost wanted to say some other stuff but I resisted...
Oh, so my guess was right? RoL was the one that you were talking to in PMs?
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On January 08 2010 08:48 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 08:34 Chezinu wrote:
I curious is the mafia are going to attempt to kill me...I'm oh so paranoid! So, I'll be here if you want to talk RoL. I almost wanted to say some other stuff but I resisted... Oh, so my guess was right? RoL was the one that you were talking to in PMs?
Ding Ding
It is true
Exactly what happened
My life is now at stake
I don't know if I will live
Keep up the good work
Every effort counts
You can do it!
Move toward the goal!
Oh, yes you can!
Oh, yes you must!
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That is ludacris. I would never lower myself down and speak to someone like chezinu.
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Ok, so let's say I die tonight and then mikeymoo gets lynched tomorrow. Who else do you think is mafia?
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dunno I think if you two die then all mafia are dead.
Right?
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I told you in the pm that I wasn't after big names at first, as you can not see until me or mikey is dead, I got one mafia!
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On January 08 2010 04:04 L wrote:
I like how the two players I specifically prodded into switching votes, so that we wouldn't end up killing malongo are now raging about the fact that we killed malongo rather than a poorer player.
Can't have it both ways, champ.
I like how a long time before that I said killing malongo was a bandwagon move and we should have just killed Judge instead. It's ok though, if I survive tonight there's going to be hell on Day 2.
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On January 08 2010 07:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I guess inactivity is to be expected for this night?
yea seems so
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Canada7170 Posts
Chezinu, I suppose you waited until I slept so you could try to build up momentum against me until I got back? That's kinda low, even if my smurf dissed yours.
You say you were fishing for mafia, but it's just as likely you were mafia fishing for blues, imo.
Your "confidence" in your read seems to me as if you're unsure and you're trying to fish for more information, which is cool. But you shouldn't mislead town into jumping on a bandwagon. Especially one that is based on something as loose as this.
Anyway, how does one catch a mafia in PMs? Short of admitting "I'm mafia", I don't ever give anyone credit for having this skill, maybe maybe maybe Ver or MBH at best. Saying I'm 100% mafia and that it's "gg" is just overconfident and foolish. Your posting timing and attitude just reek, I'm sorry.
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Well Ace lets hope you survive. But it probably won't happen lulz.
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On January 08 2010 09:40 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 04:04 L wrote:
I like how the two players I specifically prodded into switching votes, so that we wouldn't end up killing malongo are now raging about the fact that we killed malongo rather than a poorer player.
Can't have it both ways, champ. I like how a long time before that I said killing malongo was a bandwagon move and we should have just killed Judge instead. It's ok though, if I survive tonight there's going to be hell on Day 2.
I like how that has nothing to do with picking malongo over RoL, and how there was a bandwagon of exactly the same size thrown at judge which you didn't bother stopping, but rather helped to start.
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The bandwagon at Judge was very justified: A guy claiming medic on day with a "wait and let me live" approach vs a guy who got one of his posts randomly plucked out of no where and accused.
Yes, the votes against Judge were so unjustified. Either way Day 2 someone is going to have to answer some tough questions.
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On January 08 2010 10:02 mikeymoo wrote:
Chezinu, I suppose you waited until I slept so you could try to build up momentum against me until I got back? That's kinda low, even if my smurf dissed yours.
You say you were fishing for mafia, but it's just as likely you were mafia fishing for blues, imo.
Your "confidence" in your read seems to me as if you're unsure and you're trying to fish for more information, which is cool. But you shouldn't mislead town into jumping on a bandwagon. Especially one that is based on something as loose as this.
Anyway, how does one catch a mafia in PMs? Short of admitting "I'm mafia", I don't ever give anyone credit for having this skill, maybe maybe maybe Ver or MBH at best. Saying I'm 100% mafia and that it's "gg" is just overconfident and foolish. Your posting timing and attitude just reek, I'm sorry.
So I guess that means your going to let me live! Thank you!!!
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Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before.
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On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before.
Save yourself RoL and lynch mikeymoo next.The best option for the two remaining mafia is to lynch mikeymoo and gain town trust.
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On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before.
I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen.
The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard?
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i have never taunted the mafia so much in one game before...I guess sanity is not an option when I play this game... I tried... At least, I never said anything about you know what (It starts with a B).
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lynch chez.
Actually guys lets just hit him tonight.
Or I can vigi him in the next night phase.
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Just know if I die mikeymoo dies!
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*as dawn comes closer the mad detective becomes more sane*
I like to see the mafia try to bury my actions tonight...
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On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard?
Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed.
Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'.
See the difference?
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On January 08 2010 10:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
lynch chez.
Actually guys lets just hit him tonight.
Or I can vigi him in the next night phase.
Are you claiming vig? Or are you claiming to know the vig?
Either way, this is going to get hilarious REALLY fast.
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You have 1.5 hours to turn in your night actions.
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I find it worrysome that we're still pretty much in the dark about who the mafia are. Some people have pointed their finger at me, which is why I feel the need to post now.
I explained my reasoning for suspecting Malongo. I was wrong about him. I have another suspicion for someone who could be mafia, but only after the night ends can that suspicion be cleared up. If my suspicion proves to be misplaced... I would look more carefully at the people who haven't made meaningful contributions to the Town.
As to me and Judge... seriously. I've said I don't care about him, and I mean it. If it turns out he's been wasting our time all along on Day 2, I'll vote to lynch him. I'm going to go ahead and look at the times people submitted their votes, and the times they have been posting for now. I can hope to find people lurking at best, or nothing at worst- which is what we seem to have going for us right now as far as finding mafia is concerned.
Off the top of my head, I'll look closely at Mikeymoo and nemY, iirc they weren't terribly active before day 1 ended.
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On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference?
What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on.
And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense.
Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo).
So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through.
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On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through.
All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game.
But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you.
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T_T Can't wait for this day post.
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On January 08 2010 11:44 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game. But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you.
more leadership? lol nice I didn't even know I was a leader yet. The 5 of you that voted malongo off are all top suspects. Especially when ya know, you were the one who started the bs bandwagon and the others hopped on to it with lame excuses.
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On January 08 2010 12:04 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:44 Zato-1 wrote:On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game. But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you. more leadership? lol nice I didn't even know I was a leader yet. The 5 of you that voted malongo off are all top suspects. Especially when ya know, you were the one who started the bs bandwagon and the others hopped on to it with lame excuses.
Actually, it was you and RoL that started the bs bandwagon, and we counterwagoned, the exact same activity that you said you were doing.
Go check the goddam voting thread. I even gave you an option to change the lynch target and you didn't take it.
As for last game; the fact that town didn't follow the plan was expressly not brought up by me because i happened to be mafia and the plan was actually quite a lot better than what you proposed.
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mikeymoo is 100% mafia
+ Show Spoiler +From: mikeymoo [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: who of three?
Date: 1/7/10 09:52
Well as long as we can have discussion, I don't mind if you suspect me. It's not as if you're clean in my point of view, either.
My thoughts:
L: Always high profile, just as aggressive as usual, not deviating from his play style. He's making a big push for Malongo. This is probably him just trying to keep votes off of judge, as Malongo hasn't really done anything to deserve lynching imo. I'm inclined to think if judge is mafia, so is L. But if either are not mafia, it doesn't necessarily tell us anything.
Malongo: Wrong place, wrong time. I want to give him some time to see how he reacts to the votes against him.
Vivi: Makes the same points as L, just not as aggressively. I mentioned that I tend to agree with them, but I'm not sure anymore. He's a bit more passive in his posting, which could mean he's trying not to stick his neck out. I haven't played much with Vivi so I don't have too much analysis on him.
Ace: Another high profile player. Also staying aggressive, like L. The problem is that the two of them always clash, and never agree anyway. He's someone I want to watch out for.
Judge: Made a gutsy play early that makes no sense at all to me. Makes me want to lynch him because he tends to argue that he can't be mafia because there is 0 gain. However, imo, there is 0 gain for him to make this move if he's town. So wtf this is where I'm really confused.
I bet I've missed a bajillion posts by typing this out.
~mikey
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Original Message:
I think it could be you, L, and malongo. Or maybe Judge for one of you guys. If I didnt name all mafia then I will look at vivi. After that Ace? nah, it cant be Ace...
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Original Message:
I'm thinking judge, but I'm still very on-the-fence and generally confused. My problem with voting Malongo is that he's more likely to be innocent than judge, imo, and starting a late train on L is going to prove difficult, given time constraints.
What are your thoughts?
~mikey
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Original Message:
Judge, Malongo, or L?
+ Show Spoiler +From: mikeymoo [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: judge
Date: 1/7/10 12:44
*sigh*
I really don't know anymore.
All I think I know is that Malongo is innocent, at the least. The way you've set it up is alright if Malongo realizes that a vote will save his life here. I don't even know if he's on, though. Are you still PMing everyone and trying to see who is active?
~mikey
+ Show Spoiler +From: mikeymoo [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: ffs
Date: 1/7/10 12:44
my timing is atrocious this game
~mikey
no mikey you role is atrocious this game. If this makes no sense then it shouldn't. Just trust me he is 100% mafia. I just know.
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Day 2
It was relieving to be able to escape from today's hard day's work and go to a party. But something went wrong. Confused, HeavOnEarth awoke from his sleep. At first he panicked, but then he remembered that he may have just woken up from his drunkenness. But for some reason, he did not feel any side effects from the intoxication. Thinking he was truly in heaven on earth, he suddenly saw a flash of light. HeavOnEarth was first in denial, but that quickly turned into fear as he was struck by lightning. "No Drinking," said God. A few seconds later, HeavOnEarth felt really hot. I mean, really really hot. Like on fire hot.
***
Day 2 voting starts now. Please vote in the thread located here. You have 48 hours until the night post. Remember the game has no clues.
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ok, everyone vote mikeymoo. Mafia is gambling on the fact that they don't think I can persuade the town.
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Canada7170 Posts
Those PMs are so out of context. The bad timing PM was because after I sent the one about Malongo was sent as Malongo was posting.
I'm actually really surprised that you think those PMs incriminate me in any way, but at least you posted some of them so the town can decide for itself. Sleeping now.
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Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches made for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A DECTECTIVE.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start the second day.
Other detectives (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
BLIND FAITH. It is needed. For once trust somebody who you think is crazy for once. What if I really am the detective? What if I found out mikeymoo is mafia? Let me think....
Why else would one abandon the brown? I have seen the light! Never before have this happen! Crazy things happen in incog's world! Last time I visited this world my father Ace betrayed me! This is not a world for brown but of blue! Listen to my words! I truly am the Detective! Mikeyoo is mafia!!!
I could not think of any reasonable way to tell you guess im blue. Just look at the statistics. I have never been blue before not once. You think I would ever abandon the brown for any other reason?
So I call upon the GREAT LACES to help me lead this town to lynch mikeymoo!
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On January 08 2010 13:25 Chezinu wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches made for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A DECTECTIVE.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start the second day.
Other detectives (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
BLIND FAITH. It is needed. For once trust somebody who you think is crazy for once. What if I really am the detective? What if I found out mikeymoo is mafia? Let me think....
Why else would one abandon the brown? I have seen the light! Never before have this happen! Crazy things happen in incog's world! Last time I visited this world my father Ace betrayed me! This is not a world for brown but of blue! Listen to my words! I truly am the Detective! Mikeyoo is mafia!!!
I could not think of any reasonable way to tell you guess im blue. Just look at the statistics. I have never been blue before not once. You think I would ever abandon the brown for any other reason?
So I call upon the GREAT LACES to help me lead this town to lynch mikeymoo!
Oh jesus here we go.
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On January 07 2010 07:29 Chezinu wrote:
Since people want my opinion:
so far from what I read, the posts of RoL and vivi seem to interest me. Ace's post about townies don't lie made me laugh but L beat me to it. There is nothing I can post that is of value because of my name. My name makes all my posts a waste. No one can really take me seriously. Maybe if I change my tone people will listen? But then again I could be doing that on purpose for it fits my character. But what happens if someone's character changes?
Here I am trying not to post something of waste in the eyes of others. I have a question. What is a post in this game that isn't a waste? Everyone here has been through this game. There is no need to aid people in opening there minds to all possibilities. There is no need to state the noob mistakes some people make or if they are trying to make you think it is a noob mistake but really they did it on purpose ect....
So what are my thoughts...well, I was thinking that everyone has been accused this game except mikeymoo but vivi ended that... So really I have no thoughts that I can add. All I can do is write something that hopefully you guys dont think is a waste and wait for you guys to analysis me in this game of darkness. Really, this game takes blind faith sometimes especially on day 1. This is usually when I start messing with people for fun. But I decided to change my play...or did I really? Thats the thing, nothing I can say can mean anything thing especially because of my name.
Because of my name explaining to people that I have a detective role becomes hard. Imagine if you were me and have a detective role and found out that mikeymoo is mafia. What would you do? I can't be calm about it and no one will believe me if I told them via pm. So this time I am going for the overly dramatic like never before. I want everyone to lynch me or lynch mikeymoo. If I die then I'm detective then you guys will know I'm telling the truth. If mikeymoo dies, he will appear mafia and then I'm either a detective or a crazy mafia.
So please vote Mikeymoo
and if you can't vote me.
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What can I say, mikeymoo looks like a better lynch option than Malongo did on day 1. Sounds reasonable so far, but I'll wait until tomorrow to cast my vote.
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Well I do still have a suspicion of Mikey but there's a lot that needs to be discussed before I vote for him.
Judge has a plan.
L mentioned something about confirming Judge.
Ace is going to go apeshit.
And Zato's post above mine is quite curious.
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zato: oshit, i only get to lead one witch hunt as mafia, guess I'd better let a townie lead the next one
I'm really intrigued by chez's accusation. He needs to talk more.
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Chezinu, you are a fucking idiot.
WILL THE DT WHO CHECKED ME PLEASE CONFIRM WITH ME VIA PM. CONFIRM WITH YOUR INVESTIGATION RESULT. IF I HAVE NO CONFIRMATION WITHIN 12 HOURS, I WILL ASSUME NO DT CHECKED ME, FUCKING UP THE PLAN.
If anyone believes that Chez is a DT, you are a fucking idiot. This is a clean and simple bus by mafia as a ploy to throw my plan off. Mikeymoo is probably going to be mafia. Chez is going to sacc a mafioso to attempt to gain trust. Mafia KP does not go down. Chez will start naming off innocents and just cruize mafia to victory with this.
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T_T We already went over like 60 times how checking you would be pointless. You are either GF or a blue. Either way you will appear as blue.
I just don't get this shit judge, what are you aiming for? Everything you just said seems like its mafia trying to save their own. I have yet to see your plan either.
Why do you think Chezinu isn't a DT?
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I am also inclined to go with Chez's check. I feel like we are far enough behind at this point where thats more solid then continuing to go off what Judge is saying T_T
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You guys are too narrow-minded and retarded if you can't see from all of my posts how checking me would confirm me.
My aim is to bring the town together into a situation where we can win this game. I don't know how many more fucking times I have to say it.
And I don't believe Chez is a DT because this whole thing is too convenient. Do you really believe that he just happened to check a player and find mafia? Do you really think that Chezinu was able to use the PMs he sent out to people to figure out who is who?
You know what he PMed me?
"Bye."
What kind of read is he going to get off of any response from that.
FUCKING. NONE.
Right now, mafia are scared shitless. I managed to convince the town that I'm legit and that I have a plan to break them. And they know by my constant insistence on this plan, I ain't bullshitting them, I'm shooting straight. So they're scrambling.
They have at least one intelligent player on their squad who realizes sacrificing one mafia for the greater good won't alter their KP. So they take MikeyMoo, a player who people had been slightly suspicious of, and they sacrifice him. He's obviously not the GF. They now have Chezinu, who might be the GF covering himself as a DT, and who has been acting arbitrarily all game long, claim that he is a DT and out of nowhere has a guilty. It fits Chez's profile no matter what he draws - he plays like a jackass. He will get the town to lynch Mikeymoo. Mikey will flip mafia. People will buy into "Woo! Chez is DT." Knowing this site's whole "FOLLOW THE PR LOLZ" mentality in the games, they will either a) manipulate his results to push mislynches and kill their cleared or b) get a town circle "established" and have a full list.
BTW, I said my plan would come as soon as I got my confirmed DT check. Without it, my plan is null.
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So judge has no plan and is firing off at chez who just claimed dt and claims to have found a 100% mafia through a rc. He also complains that if chez is right, we'd blindly follow him meanwhile tell us to follow *his* plan that he still can't announce.
Looks like its between judge and mikeymoo tonight.
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Alright lets debunk each part of this.
On January 08 2010 17:21 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
You guys are too narrow-minded and retarded if you can't see from all of my posts how checking me would confirm me.
This has been said like 50 times by you and L. Yet there has been NO DISTINCTION to how the fuck that would work. You are wasting a check since you are probably a GF. We know you are most likely one of three roles. GF, Vet, or Medic like you claimed. In any of those situations you would be seen as blue.
I don't see where checking you benefits us here. Can anyone else?
My aim is to bring the town together into a situation where we can win this game. I don't know how many more fucking times I have to say it.
You have given no ideas or support, only a link to a mafia game from mafiascum that most people probably won't bother reading. Plus the game rules are different the main thing is THERE IS NO GF IN THAT GAME.
And I don't believe Chez is a DT because this whole thing is too convenient. Do you really believe that he just happened to check a player and find mafia? Do you really think that Chezinu was able to use the PMs he sent out to people to figure out who is who?
You know what he PMed me?
"Bye."
What kind of read is he going to get off of any response from that.
FUCKING. NONE.
Believe it or not, Chez is actually a very competent player in his own retarded way. While he is annoying as fuck and doesn't make sense and spams the shit out of the thread for a LOT of the time, behind the scenes he actually gathers good info and stays under the radar regardless of his role. That same thing makes him a very annoying and very deadly player if he is blue/red. When he is green its just annoying.
Looking at just statistics there is a 1/4 chance that the DT will check a mafia with his first check.
The odds of getting someone are 1/4 thinking you are blind guessing. There are some players who come out obviously town aligned as well as other situations that dumb that number down. MM was already under suspicion for some other reasons from some other people. I guess Chez opted to check him out.
I would also like to know how you think this play would benefit the mafia in any way if Chezinu really is mafia. I mean at most we kill MM then kill Chezinu when he flips green. Your plan is thrown off by a day and we kind of lean on trusting you I suppose. Chezinu tried saying MM was mafia covertly but the way he acts make most people not listen to him when he talks.
For anyone who can't remember what he does, he role claims basically every role, accuses almost everyone of being mafia and threatens to kill almost everyone while preaching some random shit about being Brown.
Right now, mafia are scared shitless. I managed to convince the town that I'm legit and that I have a plan to break them. And they know by my constant insistence on this plan, I ain't bullshitting them, I'm shooting straight. So they're scrambling.
Who the fuck have you convinced really? You have never really mentioned this plan except referenced a game WITH A DIFFERENT RULE AND ROLE SET.
Yeah, your insisting on some plan that might as well not exist in the way you have verbalized it.
They have at least one intelligent player on their squad who realizes sacrificing one mafia for the greater good won't alter their KP. So they take MikeyMoo, a player who people had been slightly suspicious of, and they sacrifice him. He's obviously not the GF. They now have Chezinu, who might be the GF covering himself as a DT, and who has been acting arbitrarily all game long, claim that he is a DT and out of nowhere has a guilty. It fits Chez's profile no matter what he draws - he plays like a jackass. He will get the town to lynch Mikeymoo. Mikey will flip mafia. People will buy into "Woo! Chez is DT." Knowing this site's whole "FOLLOW THE PR LOLZ" mentality in the games, they will either a) manipulate his results to push mislynches and kill their cleared or b) get a town circle "established" and have a full list.
BTW, I said my plan would come as soon as I got my confirmed DT check. Without it, my plan is null.
Where to start here? Alright got it. Lets start and the whole Chezinu faking DT part.
WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY DO THAT? Here is what would happen 1. Chezinu fakes DT kills one of his own. The real DT which most people agreed HAS to be in the game goes "wtf? 2 DT's? Bullshit." and checks Chezinu. Then probably just role claims in the thread and gets Chezinu killed. Then we have two solid lynches in a row. But yeah you are right. In this entire situation they lost no KP, only 2/3rds of their mafia. This makes perfect sense.
The entire concept of chezinu forming town circle and them getting a complete role list is insane.
Everything in that last paragraph is the perfect scenario from a mission impossible movie.
Because the chances of EVERYTHING fucking happening EXACTLY like that are so absurdly low its not even funny.
But hey, way to most likely out yourself as well. This shit just keeps getting dumber and dumber. I feel like we are battling a mafia strait off a short bus.
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Dear Judge,
I totally agree with you that mikeymoo is mafia.
I totally agree with you that I’m a bit crazy in this game… well maybe more than a bit.
If I’m mafia please accept my gift of Mikeymoo – I’m sure he would be really mad that I would turn on him after he tried so hard to be a good brownie. Oh and I totally beat you on thinking I was a crazy mafia. Just saying..
If I’m detective please accept my finding. You know, you demanded Blind Faith but are unwilling to give it. Tis tis. I even tried to copy your format…
Okay, as for the pm’s. I do it for the laughs.However, mikey responded so weird… he actually spent a lot of time writing his stuff. He like could of missed a bujillion posts writing that stuff. He also said he was going to abstain all the way. But he didn’t, mafia had better plans (that’s for you Ace – you said townies don’t lie). Mikeymoo was last to be accused. I guessed his mafia friends were trying to hide him. So obviously we can conclude that if Pyrr was playing this game, he wouldn’t be mafia. Another give away was that mikeymoo was too confused yet he bothered to talk about each player… Do you know anyone who talks about players when they are in a state of confusion? He wasted so much time writing about his opinion about players in this game when he himself was confused. Come on…
So I chose mikeymoo to rolecheck because I like to play solo and I’m a rebel in your eyes. Except now I’m playing for my team by revealing my role…so I’m kind of a crazy person…yeah..crazy..
You can call me an idiot but I am putting my faith that Chezinu is telling the truth.
Your favorite mad detective,
Chezinu
+ Show Spoiler +I guess I have to use my 500 post. Tried to make it a little longer than usual with some useless information. You guys wanted need me to talk more..
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this is all interesting. I guess tomorrow I'll have to make a long post about Zato-1, Judge, MM and Chezinu.
However at this point Chez I'm pretty sure you know you're like, almost guaranteed a lynch (seriously after seeing judge RC the first day and take shit, you'd have to AT LEAST be able to find a way to convince people). Also the other reason I don't really believe you is because on the Day 1 vote you flip flopped so many times that you came off as Mafia. Seriously, why would you flip flop if you wanted to save Malongo or Judge? Just abstain if that's the case.
And yea I read your PM Chezinu, but I'm not helping you get MikeyMoo killed unless you really flip DT. Either way it's really funny how every single time someone is "on the radar" ANOTHER person comes from left field with some new info and knocks shit out of whack.
After the Chezinu/MM debacle is cleared up we'll move on to past transgressions.
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It's sad that RoL and Scamp know me better than you Ace... You seriously can't read me by now?
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Ace I don't see the point in wasting more time. I get the point in lynching role callers but it can be confirmed the same way doing it in reverse.
And yes I get chez could just be trying to earn trust by killing one of his own, but that seems highly unlikely. Even if that is the case though, if we do indeed have a DT (which apparently is assumed we do?) it will most likely check Chezinu the next possible opportunity and if we see a dead DT pop up the next night we can kill Chezinu to be safe.
I don't really see any reason not to go with it. We essentially put ourselves off until day 4 to kill a mafia if Chezinu isn't lying.
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Okay, so. By now, many people seem to be impatient. I know stuff that makes me be less impatient- for instance, I now know Judge not to be mafia with a pretty high degree of certainty, due to a few PMs. I will proceed to publicly post those PMs which explain why he has gained my trust. But before that, I'd like to announce I'm a Vigilante. Call my roleclaiming retarded all you want- I think it's more important for the Town to throw some information out into the open and organize ourselves, than it is to keep my blue role hidden for fear of getting hit at night. I mean, I'm basically a green townie with a bonus kill, which I'll probably use tonight anyway, so I wouldn't be such a huge loss even if mafia hit me tonight due to my roleclaim.
My original PM to Judge:
"To: vx70GTOJudgexv [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Mini Mafia 2
Date: 1/6/10 06:03
I've played with you before, read your posts, and thoroughly considered your role claim. You may be mafia, in which case I'm condemning myself with this PM, but I think you're not.
So, I just wanted to let you know. I'm the vigi."
It's a risky move, because in case Judge was mafia, I'd probably die on night 1. This is the reply I got:
"From: vx70GTOJudgexv [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Mini Mafia 2
Date: 1/6/10 08:06
Thanks for trusting me.
I am not in fact mafia.
I will have a purpose for you in the coming days. Right now, play enough to avoid being lynched, but not enough to become a NK target. I need you alive N2 for my plan to work out."
The fact that he wanted me to save my kill for night 2 made me a bit suspicious- maybe he just wanted me to save it while he killed me at night 1. At any rate, if mafia hit me on Night 1, it'd be very likely Judge would be responsible for it, so I sent another PM to L, incriminating Judge in case I died, just before Night 1 ended:
PM TO L BEGINS HERE, SO MANY QUOTATION SIGNS MAY MAKE IT CONFUSING:
"To: L [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Before night ends
Date: 1/8/10 11:18
Hey L. I wanted to inform you of these PMs I had with Judge, in case I don't survive the night:
"Thanks for trusting me.
I am not in fact mafia.
I will have a purpose for you in the coming days. Right now, play enough to avoid being lynched, but not enough to become a NK target. I need you alive N2 for my plan to work out.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
I've played with you before, read your posts, and thoroughly considered your role claim. You may be mafia, in which case I'm condemning myself with this PM, but I think you're not.
So, I just wanted to let you know. I'm the vigi."
Starts with a reply from Judge, and my own message which initiated the conversation is below. As you can see, I roleclaim Vigilante to him (which I'm not, by the way), and he says he'll need me to hit something on Night 2. In case Judge is mafia, he'll likely take my bait and kill me on Night 1.
So yeah. If I die, it's probably because of that PM, and because Judge is mafia."
PM TO L ENDS HERE.
If Judge was mafia, and L wasn't, I would die on night 1 and L would know Judge to be mafia. If Judge was Town and L was mafia, I wasn't putting myself on any more immediate danger- I lied to L, telling him I'm not a Vigilante, in order to look like a less desirable target for night 1.
At this point, I'm fairly convinced Judge is Town-aligned. The fact that I lived through night 1 does little to confirm L, however, so he isn't confirmed yet as far as I'm concerned.
I won't expect everyone to believe me or to begin trusting Judge now. But know that I do trust him now, and from this post onwards, you know my reasons for placing that trust; I thought he wasn't mafia on day 1, and after night 1 came and went, this hunch has gained some substance. Yes, he isn't 100% confirmed to be Town-aligned just yet. However, he certainly looks more Town-aligned to me than anyone else, at the moment.
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Since Zato is a vigi, how about we lynch mikey and Zato can kill me tonight? Omg! This works out too well me and Zato must be mafia!
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If you guys decide to lynch me, I just want yall to know that I'm suspicious of Ace.
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On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote:
WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!?
Because of all these accusations that are running around Town. You know, these people vote, too- I hate dealing behind closed doors and keeping everyone in the dark, and my posted PMs would only make people more restless unless I gave them closure about whether I am a Vigilante or not. So, it's all out in the open now. I was kind of expecting you'd be outraged at me and maybe push for my lynching today, but I just don't see a winning plan in what you're doing, Ace. At least, not for the Town.
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I still shocked that Ace can't see that I'm blue..
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On January 08 2010 21:39 Chezinu wrote:
If you guys decide to lynch me, I just want yall to know that I'm suspicious of Ace.
Same, actually. The only thing that casts a doubt in my mind, is the fact that he was leading the bandwagon to lynch someone OTHER than a person he'd know to be Town-aligned (Malongo) if he was mafia. Maybe Judge was a bigger target? Still a ballsy move if he's mafia.
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On January 08 2010 21:41 Zato-1 wrote:Because of all these accusations that are running around Town. You know, these people vote, too- I hate dealing behind closed doors and keeping everyone in the dark, and my posted PMs would only make people more restless unless I gave them closure about whether I am a Vigilante or not. So, it's all out in the open now. I was kind of expecting you'd be outraged at me and maybe push for my lynching today, but I just don't see a winning plan in what you're doing, Ace. At least, not for the Town.
Yea I was (still am) outraged at you. But there was no need to role claim. I mean seriously, is everyone going to roleclaim now when we have a GF in the game? Come on man, you just saw Chez and his nonsense. I don't even think you would have gotten put on the chopping block today since chez just pulled that stunt and that path gives us a faster way to finding Mafia.
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On January 08 2010 21:42 Chezinu wrote:
I still shocked that Ace can't see that I'm blue..
how many times do I have to tell you if you didn't pull that stupid voting stunt on Day 1 I would have been more inclined to believe you? You said you didn't want to kill Judge or Malongo, told them to save themselves yet kept your vote flip flopping instead of simply abstaining. If you saw someone do that do you honestly think you'd believe they were legit?
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I wonder what chez was the last time I saw him do that. I should check previous mafia games. I still think just might of just avoided killing you in order to gain trust. But I guess we just have to see what happens now. My vote is staying where it is.
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lolfuck.Whatever, this game has officially gone to shit.
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As far as roleclaiming goes, I don't see the problem with someone claiming Vig.
1) It's easy as hell to confirm.
2) No GF is going to choose Vig as his cover.
3) As long as the Vig uses his power the night after he claims, there really isn't any downside to the town.
The only thing it affects as far as I can tell is that mafia are going to be more careful this day to avoid being the target.
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On January 09 2010 04:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
lolfuck.Whatever, this game has officially gone to shit.
Isn't that part of the fun? 
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On January 09 2010 04:39 Scamp wrote:
As far as roleclaiming goes, I don't see the problem with someone claiming Vig.
1) It's easy as hell to confirm.
2) No GF is going to choose Vig as his cover.
3) As long as the Vig uses his power the night after he claims, there really isn't any downside to the town.
The only thing it affects as far as I can tell is that mafia are going to be more careful this day to avoid being the target.
Vigi isn't exactly easy to confirm, check the rules ^_^
But either way it only looks bad because Chezinu DT claimed first. No point in mass roleclaims on the Second Day of the game when there isn't even anything to panic about.
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Geez, if I was mafia my teammates would hate me.
Assuming you are not mafia, i mind as well answer your question about the flip-flop
1. I voted malongo because he was talking funny and he said he abstained for now.
2. malongo was acting too selfless so I decided to vote mikeymoo.
3. Both malongo and mikeymoo were abstaining to show that they were on our side. So I abstained.
4. mikeymoo made a selfish move and changed his vote. "I abstain til the end" was a lie.
5. I get this pm from RoL to vote Judge. Well, if you know me I always respond to pm - at least for the short run (oh and by this time vivi57 gave up on scamp because of me and Scamp so I needed to change my vote anyways).
6. After being away from the game for a while I come back to see that incog tallied the votes. To my surprise I was a deciding vote. The weird things was that there were no arguments occurring trying to sway people from votes. So I started to think that maybe they were both innocent. This is when I taunt Judge and Malongo while at the same time Scamp is pming me. So I decided to call out scamp to vote.
7. Scamp votes.Malongo.
8. I change my vote to Zato, which vivi57 changed his vote to. (7 and 8 may be swapped, I'm too lazy to check -- feel free to double check)
9. I beg malongo to save himself to create a tie. He refuses and I start questioning all the more.
10. mikeymoo abstains because he was scared.
11. At this point there were a lot of active players who could easily changed the vote. So I decided to abstain with mikeymoo. This left like 7 minutes for Malongo to decide what he was going to do. ( My thoughts are that Malongo thought Judge was blue so he decided he rather die than Judge).
btw, Ace what is a good way to convince people that I'm blue besides death?
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Zato, I thought you were Vig from those PMs, hence my reply to RoL's insinuation that he was going to vigi someone.
Guess i'm bad at reading.
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Canada7170 Posts
Chez wtf are you talking about?
4. wasn't selfish. It was to make it a tie.
10 didn't happen?
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On January 09 2010 05:59 mikeymoo wrote:
Chez wtf are you talking about?
4. wasn't selfish. It was to make it a tie.
10 didn't happen?
oh 10 was that you voted Judge and said you weren't going to change because you were scared.
On January 07 2010 12:57 mikeymoo wrote:
My vote stays, I'm afraid with potential flip flopping I might mess something up -_-
This is kinda funny though.
it was fun! Self-made suspense!
4. Your mafia, everything you do has to be bad!
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Wow guys wow... I'll post my thoughts in a bit, but seriously...
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 09 2010 06:06 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 05:59 mikeymoo wrote:
Chez wtf are you talking about?
4. wasn't selfish. It was to make it a tie.
10 didn't happen? oh 10 was that you voted Judge and said you weren't going to change because you were scared. Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 12:57 mikeymoo wrote:
My vote stays, I'm afraid with potential flip flopping I might mess something up -_-
This is kinda funny though. it was fun! Self-made suspense! 4. Your mafia, everything you do has to be bad!
You were flipflopping your votes like a moron. You set it up for a tie by voting Malongo. Then, ideally, Malongo comes and ties the vote. Then you switch off and judge dies. That's what I was afraid of. I was ready to switch at the last moment but doing so earlier makes it so Malongo can't save himself.
I bet you Malongo didn't vote for judge because he was afraid of the same thing.
You're unpredictable and chaotic. I think I see why people don't like it when you play. It doesn't make you unreadable, it just screws up the game.
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On January 09 2010 06:13 mikeymoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:06 Chezinu wrote:On January 09 2010 05:59 mikeymoo wrote:
Chez wtf are you talking about?
4. wasn't selfish. It was to make it a tie.
10 didn't happen? oh 10 was that you voted Judge and said you weren't going to change because you were scared. On January 07 2010 12:57 mikeymoo wrote:
My vote stays, I'm afraid with potential flip flopping I might mess something up -_-
This is kinda funny though. it was fun! Self-made suspense! 4. Your mafia, everything you do has to be bad! You were flipflopping your votes like a moron. You set it up for a tie by voting Malongo. Then, ideally, Malongo comes and ties the vote. Then you switch off and judge dies. That's what I was afraid of. I was ready to switch at the last moment but doing so earlier makes it so Malongo can't save himself. I bet you Malongo didn't vote for judge because he was afraid of the same thing. You're unpredictable and chaotic. I think I see why people don't like it when you play. It doesn't make you unreadable, it just screws up the game.
I know, telling everyone you were mafia... That must have made you sad... But look on the bright side! You didn't kill me last night so you might have granted yourself an extra day. Or I might be lucky and the town believes me for once.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 09 2010 06:16 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:13 mikeymoo wrote:On January 09 2010 06:06 Chezinu wrote:On January 09 2010 05:59 mikeymoo wrote:
Chez wtf are you talking about?
4. wasn't selfish. It was to make it a tie.
10 didn't happen? oh 10 was that you voted Judge and said you weren't going to change because you were scared. On January 07 2010 12:57 mikeymoo wrote:
My vote stays, I'm afraid with potential flip flopping I might mess something up -_-
This is kinda funny though. it was fun! Self-made suspense! 4. Your mafia, everything you do has to be bad! You were flipflopping your votes like a moron. You set it up for a tie by voting Malongo. Then, ideally, Malongo comes and ties the vote. Then you switch off and judge dies. That's what I was afraid of. I was ready to switch at the last moment but doing so earlier makes it so Malongo can't save himself. I bet you Malongo didn't vote for judge because he was afraid of the same thing. You're unpredictable and chaotic. I think I see why people don't like it when you play. It doesn't make you unreadable, it just screws up the game. I know, telling everyone you were mafia... That must have made you sad... But look on the bright side! You didn't kill me last night so you might have granted yourself an extra day. Or I might be lucky and the town believes me for once.
I'm going to respond to this just to let you know I read it.
I like to bring issues to the table. You contribute nothing. Maybe if you didn't post in an ADHD manner and actually addressed my points, I would give you some respect. This is the attitude that causes chaos in this game. Guess who gains an advantage from chaos?
Yeah I'm sad. I'm not mafia and you try to pin me while I'm sleeping/at school? Have some manner ffs. I even told you I would be away.
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On January 09 2010 06:22 mikeymoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:16 Chezinu wrote:On January 09 2010 06:13 mikeymoo wrote:On January 09 2010 06:06 Chezinu wrote:On January 09 2010 05:59 mikeymoo wrote:
Chez wtf are you talking about?
4. wasn't selfish. It was to make it a tie.
10 didn't happen? oh 10 was that you voted Judge and said you weren't going to change because you were scared. On January 07 2010 12:57 mikeymoo wrote:
My vote stays, I'm afraid with potential flip flopping I might mess something up -_-
This is kinda funny though. it was fun! Self-made suspense! 4. Your mafia, everything you do has to be bad! You were flipflopping your votes like a moron. You set it up for a tie by voting Malongo. Then, ideally, Malongo comes and ties the vote. Then you switch off and judge dies. That's what I was afraid of. I was ready to switch at the last moment but doing so earlier makes it so Malongo can't save himself. I bet you Malongo didn't vote for judge because he was afraid of the same thing. You're unpredictable and chaotic. I think I see why people don't like it when you play. It doesn't make you unreadable, it just screws up the game. I know, telling everyone you were mafia... That must have made you sad... But look on the bright side! You didn't kill me last night so you might have granted yourself an extra day. Or I might be lucky and the town believes me for once. I'm going to respond to this just to let you know I read it. I like to bring issues to the table. You contribute nothing. Maybe if you didn't post in an ADHD manner and actually addressed my points, I would give you some respect. This is the attitude that causes chaos in this game. Guess who gains an advantage from chaos? Yeah I'm sad. I'm not mafia and you try to pin me while I'm sleeping/at school? Have some manner ffs. I even told you I would be away.
Now that is cruel. Trying to pull the sympathy card. Well, can't you see I'm trying really hard to die? You see if I die you die! The thing is it doesn't matter what I say, the only thing that matters is that I voice may opinion against yours. This is no sound logic in this game. Especially since no one here is new to this game. Thinking there is sound logic in this game is a lie.
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question for vets:
last game, chez did the voteswitching crap and ended up being mafia. Has he done this while town before?
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On January 09 2010 06:56 Vivi57 wrote:
question for vets:
last game, chez did the voteswitching crap and ended up being mafia. Has he done this while town before?
no, I don't think so. But that means nothing because im blue!
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On January 09 2010 05:45 L wrote:
Zato, I thought you were Vig from those PMs, hence my reply to RoL's insinuation that he was going to vigi someone.
Guess i'm bad at reading.
lolol if you read that post I actually say I want to lynch someone, hit someone, and Vigi someone.
I was joking around with Chezinu since when you PM with him he is likely to claim every single role while also telling you not to kill him among other shit.
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On January 08 2010 13:25 Chezinu wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches made for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A DECTECTIVE.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start the second day.
Other detectives (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
BLIND FAITH. It is needed. For once trust somebody who you think is crazy for once. What if I really am the detective? What if I found out mikeymoo is mafia? Let me think....
Why else would one abandon the brown? I have seen the light! Never before have this happen! Crazy things happen in incog's world! Last time I visited this world my father Ace betrayed me! This is not a world for brown but of blue! Listen to my words! I truly am the Detective! Mikeyoo is mafia!!!
I could not think of any reasonable way to tell you guess im blue. Just look at the statistics. I have never been blue before not once. You think I would ever abandon the brown for any other reason?
So I call upon the GREAT LACES to help me lead this town to lynch mikeymoo!
This move is so unbelievably dumb on every aspect of the game that I feel forced to disregard it all-together. If you really are the DT why would you do this? SACRIFICING YOURSELF FOR ONE MAFIA IS NOT A JUST CAUSE ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOESN'T ALTER THE KP. No rather I think you think you're so sure mikeymoo is mafia that you're willing to lie to convince the town. Why you're so sure of mikeymoo being mafia? I don't know the exact reason but I know you're not a dt, BECAUSE A DT WOULD NEVER GIVE THEMSELVES UP UNLESS THEY'RE SURE THEY HAVE PROTECTION.
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This is so stupid, which is likely going to require me to do something equally stupid to cancel it out.
Gimme a bit.
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On January 08 2010 17:21 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
You guys are too narrow-minded and retarded if you can't see from all of my posts how checking me would confirm me.
My aim is to bring the town together into a situation where we can win this game. I don't know how many more fucking times I have to say it.
And I don't believe Chez is a DT because this whole thing is too convenient. Do you really believe that he just happened to check a player and find mafia? Do you really think that Chezinu was able to use the PMs he sent out to people to figure out who is who?
You know what he PMed me?
"Bye."
What kind of read is he going to get off of any response from that.
FUCKING. NONE.
Right now, mafia are scared shitless. I managed to convince the town that I'm legit and that I have a plan to break them. And they know by my constant insistence on this plan, I ain't bullshitting them, I'm shooting straight. So they're scrambling.
They have at least one intelligent player on their squad who realizes sacrificing one mafia for the greater good won't alter their KP. So they take MikeyMoo, a player who people had been slightly suspicious of, and they sacrifice him. He's obviously not the GF. They now have Chezinu, who might be the GF covering himself as a DT, and who has been acting arbitrarily all game long, claim that he is a DT and out of nowhere has a guilty. It fits Chez's profile no matter what he draws - he plays like a jackass. He will get the town to lynch Mikeymoo. Mikey will flip mafia. People will buy into "Woo! Chez is DT." Knowing this site's whole "FOLLOW THE PR LOLZ" mentality in the games, they will either a) manipulate his results to push mislynches and kill their cleared or b) get a town circle "established" and have a full list.
BTW, I said my plan would come as soon as I got my confirmed DT check. Without it, my plan is null.
I believe your plan is going to remain null, because nobody is concerned for you and your plan. Role-claiming Day 1 is retarded and should never ever happen (I speak from experience).
Convince the town that you're legit? Who have you convinced? Certainly not me, because YOU'VE DONE NOTHING to convince me you're legit. Judging by the fact that you were 2nd in votes to be lynched, then i'd say you haven't convinced the town of too much yet either. You keep speaking of a plan (that I think will be flawed and/or manipulated) that will never happen because the real DT is not going to check you! You can't just role claim and expect people to follow you on "blind faith" alone. I'm sticking to my guns on this one and I'm voting to lynch you because unlike the other people who have falsely role-claimed so far, I believe you are smarter then they are and your plan is mafia-oriented.
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nemY, sup, you're posting a lot of emotional, rather content poor posts today. what's up with that?
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he needs to plit the votes in order to save mikeymoo obv? Or is he saving me? Oh nemY, you are so nice!
+ Show Spoiler +I think I should start doing this, above was a joke
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Why wouldn't he get protection from the medic? We can just have Judge protect him tonight and he can't die. Either way the mafia wouldn't kill him knowing that we might kill him in order to find out if hes trying to be a mole.
The reason I could see Chezinu role claiming is this. We all know his play style, half the people won't even read his PM's/posts because of the way he posts shit is annoying sometimes. He says hes a billion roles and accuses everyone he talks to in order to try to get a read. On this same note a DT is supposed to try and tell the town about a check in a very subtle way like pointing at a bunch of other reasons why Mikey could be mafia (which Chezinu did a few pages back but got ignored) then he had no choice and role called. He could of waited a night and tried finding a mouth to speak through but maybe he was afraid of dying for some other reasons or just didn't think to look for a mouth.
Either way here we are.
Now why I think we should lynch MikeyMoo and not Chezinu is this. We saw Judge's crazy defense of mikey that involved an unrealistic scenario happening. It felt like a mafia trying to save a friend from dying. If we kill Mikeymoo and hes not red we vigi Chezinu since Zato pretty much assured that he has to use his powers tonight. However if Mikey is red (which seems most likely scenario) we should lynch Judge.
This is mainly for Zato-1 I know you trust him because you role claimed and didn't die to him, but I think that he might of just chose to hold off on killing you in order to gain town trust and have someone whose not mafia on his side. What you did is an example of that. Simply by not killing you YET he has gotten a powerful blue role to vouch for him which makes him look better.
So today we should lynch Mikeymoo and then Vigi either Judge or Chezinu based on our findings.
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On January 09 2010 07:26 L wrote:
nemY, sup, you're posting a lot of emotional, rather content poor posts today. what's up with that?
lol why do you think everything everyone posts is filled with emotions? You sound like Dr. Phil.
Nemy it doesn't make sense to vote for Judge tonight, this lynch is either going to be Mikeymoo or Chezinu. Killing Judge is something you needed to vote for yesterday instead of people voting Malongo like a bunch of retards.
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On January 08 2010 21:15 Zato-1 wrote:
Okay, so. By now, many people seem to be impatient. I know stuff that makes me be less impatient- for instance, I now know Judge not to be mafia with a pretty high degree of certainty, due to a few PMs. I will proceed to publicly post those PMs which explain why he has gained my trust. But before that, I'd like to announce I'm a Vigilante. Call my roleclaiming retarded all you want- I think it's more important for the Town to throw some information out into the open and organize ourselves, than it is to keep my blue role hidden for fear of getting hit at night. I mean, I'm basically a green townie with a bonus kill, which I'll probably use tonight anyway, so I wouldn't be such a huge loss even if mafia hit me tonight due to my roleclaim.
My original PM to Judge:
"To: vx70GTOJudgexv [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Mini Mafia 2
Date: 1/6/10 06:03
I've played with you before, read your posts, and thoroughly considered your role claim. You may be mafia, in which case I'm condemning myself with this PM, but I think you're not.
So, I just wanted to let you know. I'm the vigi."
It's a risky move, because in case Judge was mafia, I'd probably die on night 1. This is the reply I got:
"From: vx70GTOJudgexv [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Mini Mafia 2
Date: 1/6/10 08:06
Thanks for trusting me.
I am not in fact mafia.
I will have a purpose for you in the coming days. Right now, play enough to avoid being lynched, but not enough to become a NK target. I need you alive N2 for my plan to work out."
The fact that he wanted me to save my kill for night 2 made me a bit suspicious- maybe he just wanted me to save it while he killed me at night 1. At any rate, if mafia hit me on Night 1, it'd be very likely Judge would be responsible for it, so I sent another PM to L, incriminating Judge in case I died, just before Night 1 ended:
PM TO L BEGINS HERE, SO MANY QUOTATION SIGNS MAY MAKE IT CONFUSING:
"To: L [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Before night ends
Date: 1/8/10 11:18
Hey L. I wanted to inform you of these PMs I had with Judge, in case I don't survive the night:
"Thanks for trusting me.
I am not in fact mafia.
I will have a purpose for you in the coming days. Right now, play enough to avoid being lynched, but not enough to become a NK target. I need you alive N2 for my plan to work out.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
I've played with you before, read your posts, and thoroughly considered your role claim. You may be mafia, in which case I'm condemning myself with this PM, but I think you're not.
So, I just wanted to let you know. I'm the vigi."
Starts with a reply from Judge, and my own message which initiated the conversation is below. As you can see, I roleclaim Vigilante to him (which I'm not, by the way), and he says he'll need me to hit something on Night 2. In case Judge is mafia, he'll likely take my bait and kill me on Night 1.
So yeah. If I die, it's probably because of that PM, and because Judge is mafia."
PM TO L ENDS HERE.
If Judge was mafia, and L wasn't, I would die on night 1 and L would know Judge to be mafia. If Judge was Town and L was mafia, I wasn't putting myself on any more immediate danger- I lied to L, telling him I'm not a Vigilante, in order to look like a less desirable target for night 1.
At this point, I'm fairly convinced Judge is Town-aligned. The fact that I lived through night 1 does little to confirm L, however, so he isn't confirmed yet as far as I'm concerned.
I won't expect everyone to believe me or to begin trusting Judge now. But know that I do trust him now, and from this post onwards, you know my reasons for placing that trust; I thought he wasn't mafia on day 1, and after night 1 came and went, this hunch has gained some substance. Yes, he isn't 100% confirmed to be Town-aligned just yet. However, he certainly looks more Town-aligned to me than anyone else, at the moment.
Or maybe Judge is smart enough to see the scenario you pointed out thus leaving you alive for another day? Or maybe he doesn't believe you to be vigi(I certainly don't)? Or maybe you two are both mafia and fabricated this whole thing to try and gain the towns trust? I don't know, but the situation isn't so black/white as you presented it.
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NemY I said it about 5 minutes before you
Oh and I meant to also say that IF Chezinu isn't the real DT, the other one should check him asap.
This is once again assuming that we actually have DT's which was said earlier is most likely scenario.
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On January 09 2010 07:43 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:NemY I said it about 5 minutes before you Oh and I meant to also say that IF Chezinu isn't the real DT, the other one should check him asap. This is once again assuming that we actually have DT's which was said earlier is most likely scenario.
I was replying to posts in the order that I've seen them, I can't really help if i'm echoing your sentiments. I'm going to take a break from this a bit, this game's been... interesting to say the least lol.
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On January 09 2010 07:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 07:26 L wrote:
nemY, sup, you're posting a lot of emotional, rather content poor posts today. what's up with that? lol why do you think everything everyone posts is filled with emotions? You sound like Dr. Phil. Nemy it doesn't make sense to vote for Judge tonight, this lynch is either going to be Mikeymoo or Chezinu. Killing Judge is something you needed to vote for yesterday instead of people voting Malongo like a bunch of retards.
Dunno, my doctor phil side probably saw you write two short posts that were 50% in caps and figured that you had something to say, then I read it and noticed that you were trying to trick my doctor phil side, so I had to call you out, like he often does with skanky teens or deadbeat fathers.
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NemY is posting like scum or an irrational townie. I hope it's the latter.
He is right that Judge hasn't convinced anyone yet. I thought there was supposed to be a flurry of activity and fun guessing games. But the only person who's posted a list is dead.
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1) Lol I thought nemY wrote that first segment of the last post I quoted, so change all 'you' instances to 'nemY'.
2) What are we going to do today? In order to summarize our situation, I will recap the history of this game in another post.
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L What the hell are you talking about rofl? Where did I post anything in 50% caps? Who am I trying to trick with what? and what did I just get called out on?
I swear to god, I really think I have seen you contribute NOTHING for the entire thread.
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On January 09 2010 09:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L What the hell are you talking about rofl? Where did I post anything in 50% caps? Who am I trying to trick with what? and what did I just get called out on?
I swear to god, I really think I have seen you contribute NOTHING for the entire thread.
I said I meant nemy in that post.
10/10 for reading comprehension.
As for contribution; I've introduced every relevant topic we've talked about thus far. What have you done, by contrast? Lash out in a 6 post spree? Not even going to bother wasting time on your stupidity.
______________
Okay, recap time:
Recap time:
Day 1: Judge claimed. I told him he was retarded for doing so. RoL/Ace led a charge to get Judge killed. I did not agree with killing him, and we ended up killing malongo because we couldn't switch votes to someone else.
During day 1, Judge told me what was supposed to happen today and tomorrow, and I'll be honest; the plan doesn't have holes in it beyond the standard "someone didn't listen" which is what happened. We can run it tomorrow, but if chez really is the DT, I don't think he'll listen to it. Worst case scenario, we trade the DT for the godfather, best case scenario, we probably win the game. Granted judge's prior comments about how powerful a dt/medic combo would be in this format without a roleblocker, I can actually see him attempting to make this trade. That said, there's a slight modification of his plan which removes the possibility of a trade, which I would have presented during the day when it was revealed.
RoL and Ace vote Judge, others vote malongo to stop judge from getting killed. An option to switch the kill target is given and passed on. Malongo dies, is green as most assumed.
Most importantly, Heavonerth is killed.
SOMEONE PLEASE GET A LIST OF ALL HIS POSTS
Why is this important? Because it wasn't me, ace, rol, judge, zato or any of the 'content' posters
Day 2: Chez claims he's the DT and has checked mikeymoo. People go batshit. Zato claims to be vig. People go double batshit.
So we can examine this from two points of view: If you were mafia, how would you react to a bunch of town members claiming? Well, maybe you'd claim too! Throw a wrench into their gears. Alternatively, you could attack the credibility of their claims. This has happened for pretty much every claim thusfar.
If you were town and people claimed, what would your reaction be? Well, you can be somewhat angry that a dt and medic 'revealed' themselves, because they would be likely to die, but at the same time given the volume of claims, its likely that some of these claimants are lying, and that one of them is probably going to get protected. But would you assume immediately that they had to be mafia?
While one of the claimants might be mafia, it is highly unlikely that all 3 are.
Zato is nearly 100% town; if he hits someone tonight, barring a medic protection, we can be certain its him. If someone objects, we kill them both and we net a mafia.
Chez is a retard, but we can make sure he's telling the truth by having him check someone else; We can discuss who during the night because I'd rather not have people fishing in PMs to find out the roles beforehand.
Judge is probably town too, but even if he's godfather, I can force him to die for no benefit if we go along with his plan.
So overall, it seems like mikey is the best shot right now; If chez is lying, we vig him tonight.
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Every post. This actually took a bit of effort.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2010 05:19 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Hello. Reading posts
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2010 05:33 HeavOnEarth wrote:lolz
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2010 05:46 HeavOnEarth wrote:so a medic claim Show nested quote +
1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done.
short of a DT role-check i don't see how you can be confirmed, and that could barely qualify as concrete evidence regardless , seeing how you openly claimed. so obviously im missing out on your plan , as the rest of the town. why would you keep this information/plan hidden ? also, this, ? i suggest if there is another medic , they counterclaim. the odds of there being 2 medics in a ~11-12 player game is substantial. the fact that you posted this statement is rather godfatherly.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2010 05:58 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.
isn't that kind of risky? provided judge doesn't openly claim who he was protecting , if he listed ace and L and himself for protection, and ace was mafia, for example- ace: Oh hey guys i was protected last night lololol judge: uh no, i protected myself ace: oh ace: .. FUUUU
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2010 06:12 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Yeeh. Vet or liar. the point was i didn't see how mafia could really "fake" a confirmation without running risks of being caught. particularly high ones
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2010 06:21 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Yeah, but is the costs of holding a hit really worth it ? Considering its a smallish 11-12 player game, wouldn't the mafia be better off killing someone ASAP ?
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2010 06:24 HeavOnEarth wrote:
The way i see it is, either
a) you get someone killed now, hopefully a blue, or a good townie,
- destroys their possible blue abilities
- limits town leadership
OR
b) you play it smooth and try to get that extra kill anyways, AND make town waste a lynch
but also it could backfire and you get nothing.
choice A looks a lot better to me if i was mafia
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2010 14:57 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 10:04 L wrote:On January 06 2010 09:39 Chezinu wrote:
Ok, I will not use my usual tactics this game L. I was thinking about changing it up even before I read your post. I just ask of you if you can tone down your language? What language? I'm positively cordial this game, my good sir. i believe he's referring to your first post where u shit on 1/2 the town ^_^
+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 09:13 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge?
+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 09:33 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts.
Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead.
L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid.
RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm.
The rest are null-reads as well.
Except Malongo. He reads mafia. because.. ? o.O
+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 09:36 HeavOnEarth wrote:
^ well zato and some others have made posts, but i was just asking mostly because i wanted his opinion
+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 10:18 HeavOnEarth wrote:Now, assuming Judge is blue, i made this little list. Obviously this is just to offer up my thoughts/and summarize the thread, moreso, then actual concrete accusations, because , at least to me, there aren't any. 1. RebirthOfLeGend - obv. against judge , posts a lot of irrelevant info. about previous games. red2. Ace - likewise, find it funny they agree with each other for once(not like, omg fish funny, just funny in general ) red3. L green4. vx70GTOJudgexv blue5. Scamp - usually quiet when mafia, probably quiet if given a blue role as well. green6. Zato-1 green7. Chezinu - i dont see why he wouldn't keep up with his masquerade-ish style of posting if given a blue/red role therefore green8. nemY - makes a case against judge red+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 04:21 nemY wrote:My Problem with JudgeShow nested quote +On August 24 2009 14:27 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Here's the problem with the "medic claims" plan - the mod can discretionarily leave out any of those roles. So mafia can make a gambit and say "I'm the DT." and the medic only gets one DT claim. You bus one mafioso, since KP doesn't change. Medic announces "ydg is mafia" and then people lynch him and he is, DT is trusted. NK a townie. Town is down to 9, takes 5 to lynch. The fake-DT offers up an innocent. Town lynches someone else as long as the fake-DT's partner lays low. They nightkill the innocent. Down to 7, takes 4 to lynch. Another innocent is offered up. Another non-investigated player is lynched. Said innocent is NKed. Down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. Lylo for town. fake-DT offers an innocent, lynch the other, and GG. They NK the other non-medic and 2 mafiosos vote to lynch the medic next day. One mafioso is sacced to gain the trust of the town and then it's field day.
EDIT: That's just one scenario that could play out. You could have a medic only game in this format theoretically. The semi-openness is what makes it balanced. It's very hard for a semi-open format to be broken by a massclaim because you can have as many or as little of each role. was posted in the previous Mini-Mafia game here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99804¤tpage=20Now Judge specifically dismisses the idea of a anyone publicly roleclaiming and now he wants us to believe that it's ok with him? Are you suppose to be an exception to your own rule? You say you have a fail-safe plan? This game isn't designed to have fail-safe 100% guaranteed plans. Besides that, the track record with anybody publicly role-claiming before night one is zilch I believe (myself included). All they do is start needless chaos and mayhem (which is always in the best interests of the mafia). The best method for reducing this needless drama is getting rid of them early. This is why I'm voting to lynch Judge. 9. HeavOnEarth - seems to be the general consensus- green10. Vivi57 - points out inactivity and gives some information in past games referring to scamp, also used the term +EV so <3 green12. Mikeymoo - seems to be genuinely busy green13. Malongo - reason im making this post, seems green to me green
+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 10:31 HeavOnEarth wrote:If anyone else wants it : judge's posting history. gonna read/review offer thoughts in a bit + Show Spoiler [Judge] ++ Show Spoiler [1] +On January 05 2010 17:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches make for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A MEDIC.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start this game off.
Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done. That will come on Day 2, but I can be. Second, it allows me to work in the open and play with mafia's head. I can make my own list towards the end of each day and force mafia to play a guessing game as to who on the list I will protect, if I will actually protect anyone from that list, or if it is worth it to try and kill me and will I protect myself.
2) As stated above, it will throw a major wrench into the mafias night-actions. They will not know if they are safe to try and kill me, or one of my targets. They don't know if there are other medics either who can protect me and/or my targets.
3) Mafia is now going to push to get me killed, either very boldly or subtly, via a lynch. This will give us a pool to work with of potential suspects. On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote:
Also isn't NemY the one that's supposed to claim medic on day one? Last time this happened the town got in a major BS argument day 1 and then won when our mafia leader ragequit because Vivi logged in 2 minutes late. Difference here is the fact that I know what I'm doing here. Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 20:13 Zato-1 wrote:
[1]Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime.
On a final note:
[2]Player list seems to be 12 people long. Are there 12 of us? If so, please fix the "11 of 11 players remain" on the OP. Also, if there's 12 players, how many mafia and how many townies are there? The OP suggests 8 townies and 3 mafia, but that adds up to 11.
Also, is role revealed after death, or merely which side you're on? [1] - We'll discuss protection options as the day draws near an end. I'm leaning towards L or Ace tonight, depending on how each plays. [2] - I think we're at 12 (9 & 3) and this should be full reveal, not limited flip. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this. It does a number of things - it can provide a confirmed townie which is the worst possible thing for mafia to have to go up against, because it's someone that no matter what, they cannot push a lynch on, and worst of all - I'm not one of the top players in the game, so I'm not someone they want to waste a NK on either. Even if I'm barking up the completely wrong tree they have to try and kill me because they can't get me lynched once I'm confirmed. It forces mafia to play a guessing game. Sure, they had to play one before, but it was minimized. Now, they have to try and outguess the entire town. I can ask the town directly - who do we want to keep protected tonight and form a list. Mafia players will either have to sacrifice a potential target and put him up on the list or out themselves with a ridiculous choice and/or not post at all. Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect. Doctor can be a much more powerful role out in the open. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him.
I wouldn't direct a vig to hit anyone and protect that, because our vigs are one-shot. There are later plans for any vigs. Regarding the DT, I have a plan for any potential DTs we have, but that steps in on D2. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers. I'm a medic though. And I'm trying to do something different because I've seen it work, I've seen this tactic in play. Besides, as odd of a defense as it is, this is nowhere near my scum meta, even if I was GF. I much prefer to push attention away from myself, because I'm prone to fuckups if I try and be too active. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well. The ability to be a confirmed townie and force mafia to adapt uncomfortably. The ability to force mafia into a guessing game. The ability to bring the town together and become a town leader here. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it.
So we have 2 topics of interest now:
1) Medic claim
2) Who y'all wanna kill It does seem odd that no one is talking about it. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote:
I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics?
This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format. I can protect myself. That was the kicker. It might not make sense for there to be two medics, but there very well could be. We don't know, and I don't try and out-guess the mod, no matter what the most likely scenario of "who should be scum" or "Why would he do this". @Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you. Also, for a kill, I say if he doesn't really put effort into it, Chezinu should be the day 1 lynch. No matter what he flips, it's a win for town. On January 06 2010 08:28 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 06:40 Vivi57 wrote:
Judge is probably vet or gf. Either way, using a rolecheck on him is a waste because it tells us nothing. Or I'm a medic. And because everyone wants to know: Yes, the plan does involve a DT R/C on me. Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect. See, I believe you're rather correct when you say there's a guessing game going on, but I don't know why you'd do it in person, rather than through a mouth. Additionally, I don't see why pretending to be a mouth and posting late in the day rather than early would have harmed you or your goals here. So what mindgames are here that weren't here previously? The only real difference in the 'try to dodge the medic list member' roulette is the fact that you've painted a sign on your forehead. While you may have seen this used in the past, the 9 man format doesn't have a godfather, and doesn't have the possibility of multiple medics; the bluff is far simpler to make here, whereas its a massively ballsy move in a game of 9 man to claim doc as mafia; that's why its so powerful there. Actually, I read it first used in a 12 man closed setup. No clue as to whether a GF was there or not. Could have been two medics, could have been 5. Nothing was known. This is semi-open which makes it just as effective. Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia and my mouth could be mafia providing a plethora of problems. If I pretended to be a mouth, there could be the problem of "He might be mafia." and then I would be outed as medic sooner or later, leading to questions why I chose to fake using a mouth. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
Additionally, I have further issues; As you note, the timing of this is odd; you can't reveal a bunch of your 'plan' because a bunch of night roles simply aren't able to act yet. I can somewhat waive this on my own because I typically play in the same manner. Actually, it isn't because night roles can't act yet, it's because I'm keeping mafia on their toes. Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.
How exactly are you going to confirm anyone?
The objective elements of your claim are an increase in attention on you, which speaks to a godfather, vet, vig or green role. You most certainly aren't the DT, or a normal mafia member. I wasn't going to claim any confirmation through a protection. I was going to wait until just before day ended and bark some orders, matter of fact. Also, in a setup like this, as a scum-gambit to false claim doc and fake confirmation there is no major gain. BTW, you're catching on with the last part - none of my actions fit the profile of a medic, which can cause people to question the veracity. I am the medic, but how much are the mafia going to believe that? The plan works in a few parts. The first part is the claim. The second part is making it through the day and establishing a plan for the night in terms of protections. Third part involves a DT rolechecking me. Day 2 I will explain at the beginning of Day 2. If I lay out the entire plan right now, the plan is lost. On January 06 2010 09:16 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 09:00 L wrote:Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification. Touche. Show nested quote +Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW? HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS. Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo Clarification: I could easily pick a mafioso as my mouth, and all information would flow through him, and thus to others. Generally, a mouth this early on is stupid. Is it the greatest position to leave me out in the open today? No. But I don't have to worry about going to a potential mouth, PMing him and having him not come forward with the information. On January 07 2010 03:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Unfortunately the town does not see the benefits of my maneuver, but you will in time. Get me through to tomorrow and this game will be very much in our control.
Stop asking questions about the plan, because the more I lay out now, the less effective it is. Right now it is 9 hours to deadline, and a slew of people have decided to go under. Let's figure out which one of them is going to be a lynch candidate tonight, and at 10:50 PM EST I will lay out the night phase of my plan for you all to see.
I've got a pretty good feeling that this is going to catch one mafia tonight, if you just let me work my magic. On January 07 2010 04:25 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
nemY - I honestly forgot about that. I also hadn't seen this plan in use when I had made that post, fwiw. That post was some 5 months ago. I've played about 9 games since then and read plenty more.
And this is a different plan from that, trust me :D
Scamp, I'm trying to remember the game # of where I last saw it used, when I do I'll link it. On January 07 2010 04:30 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Wow. You guys are fucking retarded.
Do I have to spell out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ACTION for you?
Because I might as well before the lynch, if you plan on killing me tonight - let me know so I can explain how this would've worked. On January 07 2010 04:30 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
BTW - Ace is mafia, calling it now. On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
General responses:
I've said part of it before. The first objective of the claim was to allow me to work out in the open, scare scum and also because I do have a plan. The second objective is to put myself in a position to lead the town in the right direction, because otherwise we'd be voting to no-lynch today, which on Day 1 is an awful play.
You think it's scummy that I don't give out every detail of my plan? That's great. Unfortunately, as I've re-iterated before and I'll do again, giving out every detail of my plan makes it useless.
Let me help you all out and put this claim in perspective from both points of view:
From a Town-aligned point of view: I am a medic. I can sit back, hope not to draw too much attention to me during the day or the night and try and protect the right hits. OR I can come out in the open and claim. Thus, the mafia is now wondering a myriad of things. Am I the real medic? Am I bluffing? Can they hit me successfully? Will I protect the people I list? Will they hit the one I protect? If he's not the medic, we'll be able to get him lynched, but if he is, we might not. Do we try and kill him at night?
Now I have one-up on the mafia. I don't need to outguess them. I'll protect who I choose to and wait.
If you think a medic's only use is to absorb kills, you're dead wrong.
From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.
This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective. On January 07 2010 09:11 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:07 mikeymoo wrote:On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.
This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective. Small point: I can't see why mafia would claim medic and pass on a night kill. A night miss can still be regarded as Vet, right? It still makes some sense (I guess?) to claim medic, just not passing on a night kill. It was just a possible way for mafia to try and confirm themselves being the medic. Obviously the vet throws it off as does the no confirmation via PM of a save. On January 07 2010 09:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:13 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge? There's still some 4 hours left to the day, I will though. Any input from players on who I should protect from the town? On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts.
Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead.
L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid.
RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm.
The rest are null-reads as well.
Except Malongo. He reads mafia. On January 07 2010 09:39 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:33 Malongo wrote:
I still dont see much gain from mafia to fakeclaim, thats why im inclined to think judge isnt mafia. Im really trusting the "other" blues here. Btw some votes on me are really lol votes, im not gonna defend myself but the only guy that has a "reason" to lynch me is L and he is based on previous games. Zato thinks im mafia because I was making separate groups. Funny shit the guys that i say im inclined to trust are insta voting me (L and judge) what do you think zato-1? I originally voted you to force a no-lynch and save my sorry ass from being idiot-lynched. Now I'm voting you because your one "real" post in the thread reeked of active lurking, a wonderful scum tactic, of coming in and providing nothing but fluff and lack of contribution to the game. You barely put anything new on the table, then disappeared for a lovely 24 hours. You come back and again provide nothing new to the discussion, and get all OMGUS on me for calling you out. On January 07 2010 09:40 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
HoE, does that answer your post? On January 07 2010 09:46 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. The first part still reeks of anti-town nature at minimum, mafia nature more likely. The second part - huh? On January 07 2010 09:47 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
BTW, Ace, might want to work on getting that tunnel vision checked out. On January 07 2010 09:52 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. Generally, a player voicing opposition to a bandwagon with little case is a mafia member trying to either prevent his partner from being lynched or trying to get townie credit by opposing a wagon on a townie. This is my experience. Also, I see no reason to switch to RoL at the moment. He's a null read to me. On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 11:15 HeavOnEarth wrote:
it wasn't meant for accusations RoL- you missed the point entirely =/
+ Show Spoiler +On January 08 2010 09:42 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 07:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I guess inactivity is to be expected for this night? yea seems so
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L I disagreed with so much of what you said but I'm going to go with it because it involves lynching Mikey first.
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Everyone seems so supportive with lynching mikey, however I see no votes with their words...
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It seems everything revolves around Mikey. Even Judge has said, indirectly, that he thinks Mikey is scum.
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Every one of heavon's posts were about not believing judge. I'm going to beat the mafia at their leveling war and say that they killed heavon to make us react and lynch judge. At this point, I'm fairly sure judge is town.
Right now, either chez or mikey is mafia. 4 scenarios:
we lynch chez and he flips blue so we vig mikeymoo tonight. After the mafia hit, we are left in a situation of 5v2 without a dt
we lynch chez and he's red. This confirms mikey as innocent lets us use the vig on someone else with a good chance of hitting red. 5v2 or 6v1 with our dt alive
we lynch mikey and he flips town. vig chez and back at 5v2, but still with a dt
lynch mikey and he's red. Town autowin
losing our dt would really suck, so it looks like its mikey today
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On January 09 2010 10:47 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 09:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L What the hell are you talking about rofl? Where did I post anything in 50% caps? Who am I trying to trick with what? and what did I just get called out on?
I swear to god, I really think I have seen you contribute NOTHING for the entire thread. I said I meant nemy in that post. 10/10 for reading comprehension. As for contribution; I've introduced every relevant topic we've talked about thus far. What have you done, by contrast? Lash out in a 6 post spree? Not even going to bother wasting time on your stupidity. ______________
10/10 for misquoting and being a prick in general. You didn't make it clear if you meant the post above the one you quoted or the quote inside the quote.
Okay, recap time:
Recap time:
Day 1: Judge claimed. I told him he was retarded for doing so. RoL/Ace led a charge to get Judge killed. I did not agree with killing him, and we ended up killing malongo because we couldn't switch votes to someone else.
During day 1, Judge told me what was supposed to happen today and tomorrow, and I'll be honest; the plan doesn't have holes in it beyond the standard "someone didn't listen" which is what happened. We can run it tomorrow, but if chez really is the DT, I don't think he'll listen to it. Worst case scenario, we trade the DT for the godfather, best case scenario, we probably win the game. Granted judge's prior comments about how powerful a dt/medic combo would be in this format without a roleblocker, I can actually see him attempting to make this trade. That said, there's a slight modification of his plan which removes the possibility of a trade, which I would have presented during the day when it was revealed.
RoL and Ace vote Judge, others vote malongo to stop judge from getting killed. An option to switch the kill target is given and passed on. Malongo dies, is green as most assumed.
I swear to fucking god if I have to ask this one more time I am just going to spam your inbox until I get a response I deem acceptable.
How does checking Judge prove anything? There is a godfather in the game. Do I need to say this again? Checking Judge can show us anything, most likely a Vet or Medic yet you insist on wasting our valuable checks on it? We said in thread before night how it wasn't a good idea to check judge for those reasons yet you and Judge kept going on about confirming Judge which just never got explained.
GIVE ME FUCKING ANSWERS.
Oh and just a quick thing about the hit on HoE. I feel like that was done to draw the least suspicion to anyone. Why would ANYONE hit HoE? He isn't particularly good nor was he really looking like a blue. The only reason I can see to hit HoE is either a misread on a blue or to just try to create as little controversy between players. Imagine if me or Ace died last night the two people who were attacking Judge/L and their plan so much. They would be under scrutiny. But what did HoE really do? Look at his posts above. He didn't really do or say much of anything.
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On January 09 2010 12:55 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 10:47 L wrote:On January 09 2010 09:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L What the hell are you talking about rofl? Where did I post anything in 50% caps? Who am I trying to trick with what? and what did I just get called out on?
I swear to god, I really think I have seen you contribute NOTHING for the entire thread. I said I meant nemy in that post. 10/10 for reading comprehension. As for contribution; I've introduced every relevant topic we've talked about thus far. What have you done, by contrast? Lash out in a 6 post spree? Not even going to bother wasting time on your stupidity. ______________ 10/10 for misquoting and being a prick in general. You didn't make it clear if you meant the post above the one you quoted or the quote inside the quote. Show nested quote +
Okay, recap time:
Recap time:
Day 1: Judge claimed. I told him he was retarded for doing so. RoL/Ace led a charge to get Judge killed. I did not agree with killing him, and we ended up killing malongo because we couldn't switch votes to someone else.
During day 1, Judge told me what was supposed to happen today and tomorrow, and I'll be honest; the plan doesn't have holes in it beyond the standard "someone didn't listen" which is what happened. We can run it tomorrow, but if chez really is the DT, I don't think he'll listen to it. Worst case scenario, we trade the DT for the godfather, best case scenario, we probably win the game. Granted judge's prior comments about how powerful a dt/medic combo would be in this format without a roleblocker, I can actually see him attempting to make this trade. That said, there's a slight modification of his plan which removes the possibility of a trade, which I would have presented during the day when it was revealed.
RoL and Ace vote Judge, others vote malongo to stop judge from getting killed. An option to switch the kill target is given and passed on. Malongo dies, is green as most assumed.
I swear to fucking god if I have to ask this one more time I am just going to spam your inbox until I get a response I deem acceptable. How does checking Judge prove anything? There is a godfather in the game. Do I need to say this again? Checking Judge can show us anything, most likely a Vet or Medic yet you insist on wasting our valuable checks on it? We said in thread before night how it wasn't a good idea to check judge for those reasons yet you and Judge kept going on about confirming Judge which just never got explained. GIVE ME FUCKING ANSWERS. Oh and just a quick thing about the hit on HoE. I feel like that was done to draw the least suspicion to anyone. Why would ANYONE hit HoE? He isn't particularly good nor was he really looking like a blue. The only reason I can see to hit HoE is either a misread on a blue or to just try to create as little controversy between players. Imagine if me or Ace died last night the two people who were attacking Judge/L and their plan so much. They would be under scrutiny. But what did HoE really do? Look at his posts above. He didn't really do or say much of anything.
So since I totally plan on active lurking from here on out until you guys lynch me or mafia kills me, does anyone want to hear my plan?
Because it was brilliant, mind you.
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Sure why not, but I really just want to hear how we would confirm you. That's all I really care about.
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10/10 for misquoting That's why i issued an edit with a new post.
As for the rest; you're really not worth the time.
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holy shit. I hate you. I don't get why you can't simply explain how we would go about confirming Judge.
If you guys could just give me that there would not be an issue.
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Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe.
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On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe.
Ace, you need to be more active! You seem so lost this game..
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On January 09 2010 04:42 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 04:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
lolfuck.Whatever, this game has officially gone to shit. Isn't that part of the fun?
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On January 09 2010 14:33 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. Ace, you need to be more active! You seem so lost this game..
I'm active enough? Seriously though I've been in meetings and shit. And tomorrow from 12-9 ET (cringe) I'll be tutoring kids. Hopefully they let me use the internet.
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On January 09 2010 14:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 14:33 Chezinu wrote:On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. Ace, you need to be more active! You seem so lost this game.. I'm active enough? Seriously though I've been in meetings and shit. And tomorrow from 12-9 ET (cringe) I'll be tutoring kids. Hopefully they let me use the internet.
OK, good. You had me thinking you were mafia. You being busy and not paying attention would be the only reason why I could think you were not mafia.
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You've told me I'm Mafia about 7 times already. But you can keep screaming it for your own pleasure ^_^
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On January 09 2010 14:40 Ace wrote:
You've told me I'm Mafia about 7 times already. But you can keep screaming it for your own pleasure ^_^
It's for your own protection! <3 ya!
lol
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On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe.
I would go with what you said except for one thing. I believe killing mikeymoo gives us a better vigi candidate. While if we lynch Chezinu we only learn to either A. Vigi MM or B. Vigi someone else?
If we kill MM first and hes not mafia then we know killing chez gives us scum, if MM is mafia then we should hit either L or Judge. Judge posts how MM probably is mafia but we should kill Chezinu because its some evil plan from mafia to infiltrate using Chezinu as decoy.
Summary, Lynch Chez we either don't know who to vigi or we vigi MM. Lynch MM first we either kill Chez or Judge. Doesn't matter either way.
Hey judge you can even confirm yourself this way too! If we have Zato hit you and you protect yourself his hit won't go through!
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When you guys hear the full plan, you'll be shocked at how simple confirming judge is. In a foolproof 100% closed manner.
More importantly, lynch MM first; If chez is lying, we can vig him during the night cycle and both die. If he's telling the truth, then he might be killed during the night by mafia if he really is the dt, and if he isn't, he'll die soon thereafter.
There's no reason to kill chez prior to mikey, unless we're certain that chez is lying.
So are we certain chez is lying? Is it worth the risk of killing our DT?
RoL, i find it kinda interesting how you suggest killing me, but not Ace, given your rationale for killing judge. He's in nearly the exact same position judge is regarding this lynch whereas I'm quite the opposite.
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lynch MM first
Emphasis.
If we're going to kill either chez OR mikey, this is the way to go. If we have other leads, we can discuss those too.
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On January 09 2010 15:36 L wrote:
He's in nearly the exact same position judge is regarding this lynch whereas I'm quite the opposite.
I haven't seen you vote yet...hehe
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On January 09 2010 15:43 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 15:36 L wrote:
He's in nearly the exact same position judge is regarding this lynch whereas I'm quite the opposite. I haven't seen you vote yet...hehe
I normally vote late. gives me more time to think and gives me more voting information to look at when making my choice. My assumption that we're going to kill mikey or chez, however, is just that; an assumption. I'd rather kill a few other people, but i don't think we'd have support for it. I also don't like switching my vote unlike someone.
HO HO HO, I MEANT YOU.
:D?
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On January 09 2010 15:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. I would go with what you said except for one thing. I believe killing mikeymoo gives us a better vigi candidate. While if we lynch Chezinu we only learn to either A. Vigi MM or B. Vigi someone else? If we kill MM first and hes not mafia then we know killing chez gives us scum, if MM is mafia then we should hit either L or Judge. Judge posts how MM probably is mafia but we should kill Chezinu because its some evil plan from mafia to infiltrate using Chezinu as decoy. Summary, Lynch Chez we either don't know who to vigi or we vigi MM. Lynch MM first we either kill Chez or Judge. Doesn't matter either way. Hey judge you can even confirm yourself this way too! If we have Zato hit you and you protect yourself his hit won't go through!
Ok I understand why you're for killing MM...but how does that confirm Judge or even L?
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If you look right when Chez comes out and claims Judge says some crazy shit about how MM will be mafia but that doesn't mean Chez isn't and it seemed a really really fucking weird angle to come from. L might of been a stretch. I would say L only if Judge came back red too. They both have just been harping on this plan for way too long and not giving us anything. I thought we were supposed to learn about it today.
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This is the quote I am talking about. This would just generally be a really bad ploy.
On January 08 2010 16:44 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Chezinu, you are a fucking idiot.
WILL THE DT WHO CHECKED ME PLEASE CONFIRM WITH ME VIA PM. CONFIRM WITH YOUR INVESTIGATION RESULT. IF I HAVE NO CONFIRMATION WITHIN 12 HOURS, I WILL ASSUME NO DT CHECKED ME, FUCKING UP THE PLAN.
If anyone believes that Chez is a DT, you are a fucking idiot. This is a clean and simple bus by mafia as a ploy to throw my plan off. Mikeymoo is probably going to be mafia. Chez is going to sacc a mafioso to attempt to gain trust. Mafia KP does not go down. Chez will start naming off innocents and just cruize mafia to victory with this.
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Tomorrow I cannot post the day post at the regular 8:00 PM PST. So the night post will go up at 10:00 PM PST. Do you guys want me to extend the voting till then also? Or do you want me to close voting at the regular time? Please post your opinions in the voting thread. I will announce the decision 4~6 hours before voting closes.
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Prepare.
To.
Be.
Amazed.
At.
How.
Much.
You.
Suck.
RoL.
And.
Ace.
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L & idiots, I present you:
THE PLAN
I am a vanilla townie. The medic claim was to have a few things happen. First, it does fuck with mafia, because they don't know if I'm telling the truth. Second, because a lot of times, the real medic will protect that player on D1 just to see how it goes. They have no other people to protect and if it's mafia, it's not like they would've made a successful prot on N1 anyways. I was going to call for a DT investigation and to PM me to confirm. The DT would've confirmed himself by pming me "I got town as your role". At that point, I would come clean as VT and act as a mouth for said DT and funnel information to him. Have all players claim to me, funnel to him - let town lynch me to confirm my VT-ness, but send out directions for the night before I died.
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So you get confirmed by death but by that time you already have the DT's name as well as everyone elses.
Sure hope you aren't godfather...
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Oh...oh my god! Brilliant!
Surely the DT wouldn't think that the fact you purposely claimed Medic to draw an investigation to yourself and a GF isn't in the game you'd never even attempt to pull a stunt!
So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time.
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you get confirmed by death
HEY LOOK YOU FIGURED IT OUT.
So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time. Nah, the plan was pretty good if you funneled the DT confirmation through someone that was more certain to be green (me for instance, or through zato after his vigi hit goes off, for instance) it essentially pays huge dividends; the only way mafia can fake into it is by risking 2 members. If he's GF, the trade is DT for GF, which is a net plus for mafia because the other two members get off the "dt clock", so to speak, but he never even gets that option if the information is funneled elsewhere: ie through me. Pretty much everything objectively pointed to him not being a medic when he claimed day 1, which is why you should have interpreted the event as someone fake claiming medic for another purpose.
Either way, today we lynch mikey unless someone comes up with something better.
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There's little to say at this point, other than the fact that Judge's plan was kinda clever. Too bad the DT didn't check him on N1.
As has been suggested by many, it's either Chez or Mikeymoo tonight. Based on their posts, I find Mikeymoo more likely to be mafia than Chez (he's only begun posting more since he was pointed at by Chez, and didn't have any defense to speak of). Besides, if he was Town, he'd have tried to give us useful last words before his death- since he knows he'll just flip red, he's not even bothering to do that.
I find this post from L summarizes the game so far nicely- except for the fact that I did, in fact, think Malongo could've been mafia when I originally voted for him:
On January 09 2010 10:47 L wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I said I meant nemy in that post.
10/10 for reading comprehension.
As for contribution; I've introduced every relevant topic we've talked about thus far. What have you done, by contrast? Lash out in a 6 post spree? Not even going to bother wasting time on your stupidity.
______________
Okay, recap time:
Recap time:
Day 1: Judge claimed. I told him he was retarded for doing so. RoL/Ace led a charge to get Judge killed. I did not agree with killing him, and we ended up killing malongo because we couldn't switch votes to someone else.
During day 1, Judge told me what was supposed to happen today and tomorrow, and I'll be honest; the plan doesn't have holes in it beyond the standard "someone didn't listen" which is what happened. We can run it tomorrow, but if chez really is the DT, I don't think he'll listen to it. Worst case scenario, we trade the DT for the godfather, best case scenario, we probably win the game. Granted judge's prior comments about how powerful a dt/medic combo would be in this format without a roleblocker, I can actually see him attempting to make this trade. That said, there's a slight modification of his plan which removes the possibility of a trade, which I would have presented during the day when it was revealed.
RoL and Ace vote Judge, others vote malongo to stop judge from getting killed. An option to switch the kill target is given and passed on. Malongo dies, is green as most assumed.
Most importantly, Heavonerth is killed.
SOMEONE PLEASE GET A LIST OF ALL HIS POSTS
Why is this important? Because it wasn't me, ace, rol, judge, zato or any of the 'content' posters
Day 2: Chez claims he's the DT and has checked mikeymoo. People go batshit. Zato claims to be vig. People go double batshit.
So we can examine this from two points of view: If you were mafia, how would you react to a bunch of town members claiming? Well, maybe you'd claim too! Throw a wrench into their gears. Alternatively, you could attack the credibility of their claims. This has happened for pretty much every claim thusfar.
If you were town and people claimed, what would your reaction be? Well, you can be somewhat angry that a dt and medic 'revealed' themselves, because they would be likely to die, but at the same time given the volume of claims, its likely that some of these claimants are lying, and that one of them is probably going to get protected. But would you assume immediately that they had to be mafia?
While one of the claimants might be mafia, it is highly unlikely that all 3 are.
Zato is nearly 100% town; if he hits someone tonight, barring a medic protection, we can be certain its him. If someone objects, we kill them both and we net a mafia.
Chez is a retard, but we can make sure he's telling the truth by having him check someone else; We can discuss who during the night because I'd rather not have people fishing in PMs to find out the roles beforehand.
Judge is probably town too, but even if he's godfather, I can force him to die for no benefit if we go along with his plan.
So overall, it seems like mikey is the best shot right now; If chez is lying, we vig him tonight.
Mikeymoo had better be mafia, Chez, for your own sake. Then again, if he does flip red, figuring out my target for the night won't be so easy.
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On January 09 2010 20:30 Ace wrote:
Oh...oh my god! Brilliant!
Surely the DT wouldn't think that the fact you purposely claimed Medic to draw an investigation to yourself and a GF isn't in the game you'd never even attempt to pull a stunt!
So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time.
Hey Ace.
It's not my fault you're in all honesty a shitty mafia player who relies on broken setups where you can follow the PR to victory and thus can't wrap your feeble mind around a well thought out plan.
Quit raging at the fact that someone who isn't you had a plan to lead the town to victory.
GG fucker.
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Judge.. you sound so sure about your statements about Ace... it's like your a detective or something...
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None of the mafia is pming me anymore... Mikeymoo hasn't talk to me in a long time and I sent him so many pm's. He didn't even tell me if he forwarded the pm's to his mafia buddies. I know he had school, but it is Saturday now.. So I'm just wondering, has the other two mafia talked to him recently? Is he upset that you guys went with my plan and voted to lynch him today to gain trust?
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 10 2010 07:42 Chezinu wrote:
None of the mafia is pming me anymore... Mikeymoo hasn't talk to me in a long time and I sent him so many pm's. He didn't even tell me if he forwarded the pm's to his mafia buddies. I know he had school, but it is Saturday now.. So I'm just wondering, has the other two mafia talked to him recently? Is he upset that you guys went with my plan and voted to lynch him today to gain trust?
Hi.
You're spamming my inbox with shit.
Who says I can't be busy on a Saturday? It's called homework.
For posterity:
Chezinu Dear mikey 1/10 07:35 Save / Delete / U
Chezinu is it him? 1/9 15:15 Save / Delete / U
Chezinu dun dun dun 1/9 12:09 Save / Delete / U
Chezinu what role do you think I am> 1/9 06:55 Save / Delete / U
Chezinu you having fun? 1/9 06:22 Save / Delete / U
Chezinu Hey guys! 1/8 20:52 Save / Delete / U
Chezinu Dear Mafia 1/8 10:35 Save / Delete / U
ffs. You're on my personal ban list. I now remember why I stopped playing mafia. It wasn't because of school, it's because of players like you that continually post/PM bs. I think it makes the game unenjoyable for everybody involved. If I fail to respond to a PM, stfu.
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On January 09 2010 19:01 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:L & idiots, I present you: THE PLAN I am a vanilla townie. The medic claim was to have a few things happen. First, it does fuck with mafia, because they don't know if I'm telling the truth. Second, because a lot of times, the real medic will protect that player on D1 just to see how it goes. They have no other people to protect and if it's mafia, it's not like they would've made a successful prot on N1 anyways. I was going to call for a DT investigation and to PM me to confirm. The DT would've confirmed himself by pming me "I got town as your role". At that point, I would come clean as VT and act as a mouth for said DT and funnel information to him. Have all players claim to me, funnel to him - let town lynch me to confirm my VT-ness, but send out directions for the night before I died.
I think it would be easier for the DT to make people think he is mafia so that he can live. Then he could rolecheck mafia on the first night. Now, throughout the night and the next morning he can run through the streets yelling that "mikeymoo is mafia!" His bluff shields that he put up that night could to protect him from the mafia. The following day mikeymoo could get lynched! BAM! One mafia down! Now after mikeymoo dies, The DT could actually get real protection from the town, hopefully *hint hint*. Now he can yell throughout streets all he wants!
Not only is my plan easier; it is way more fun!
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On January 10 2010 07:57 mikeymoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 07:42 Chezinu wrote:
None of the mafia is pming me anymore... Mikeymoo hasn't talk to me in a long time and I sent him so many pm's. He didn't even tell me if he forwarded the pm's to his mafia buddies. I know he had school, but it is Saturday now.. So I'm just wondering, has the other two mafia talked to him recently? Is he upset that you guys went with my plan and voted to lynch him today to gain trust? Hi. You're spamming my inbox with shit. Who says I can't be busy on a Saturday? It's called homework. For posterity: Chezinu Dear mikey 1/10 07:35 Save / Delete / U Chezinu is it him? 1/9 15:15 Save / Delete / U Chezinu dun dun dun 1/9 12:09 Save / Delete / U Chezinu what role do you think I am> 1/9 06:55 Save / Delete / U Chezinu you having fun? 1/9 06:22 Save / Delete / U Chezinu Hey guys! 1/8 20:52 Save / Delete / U Chezinu Dear Mafia 1/8 10:35 Save / Delete / U ffs. You're on my personal ban list. I now remember why I stopped playing mafia. It wasn't because of school, it's because of players like you that continually post/PM bs. I think it makes the game unenjoyable for everybody involved. If I fail to respond to a PM, stfu.
all you had to do was ask. I won't pm you anymore!
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Canada7170 Posts
As for what Zato is saying, there is nothing for me to "defend". Either you believe Chezinu or you don't. Then you vote based on what makes sense to you. Zato, you assume that I have something useful to give town. I don't. Neither does Chez. What useful last words should I post? Basic fundamentals of the game? How not to lynch people that are 100% town?
This game is beyond belief.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:00 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 07:57 mikeymoo wrote:On January 10 2010 07:42 Chezinu wrote:
None of the mafia is pming me anymore... Mikeymoo hasn't talk to me in a long time and I sent him so many pm's. He didn't even tell me if he forwarded the pm's to his mafia buddies. I know he had school, but it is Saturday now.. So I'm just wondering, has the other two mafia talked to him recently? Is he upset that you guys went with my plan and voted to lynch him today to gain trust? Hi. You're spamming my inbox with shit. Who says I can't be busy on a Saturday? It's called homework. For posterity: Chezinu Dear mikey 1/10 07:35 Save / Delete / U Chezinu is it him? 1/9 15:15 Save / Delete / U Chezinu dun dun dun 1/9 12:09 Save / Delete / U Chezinu what role do you think I am> 1/9 06:55 Save / Delete / U Chezinu you having fun? 1/9 06:22 Save / Delete / U Chezinu Hey guys! 1/8 20:52 Save / Delete / U Chezinu Dear Mafia 1/8 10:35 Save / Delete / U ffs. You're on my personal ban list. I now remember why I stopped playing mafia. It wasn't because of school, it's because of players like you that continually post/PM bs. I think it makes the game unenjoyable for everybody involved. If I fail to respond to a PM, stfu. all you had to do was ask. I won't pm you anymore!
It really should be obvious, and it's kind of childish to keep going. No hard feelings, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't want to play with you. Mafia's not the only thing in my inbox/life.
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On January 10 2010 07:57 mikeymoo wrote:
I now remember why I stopped playing mafia. It wasn't because of school, it's because of players like you that continually post/PM bs. I think it makes the game unenjoyable for everybody involved.
Yup, you remember correctly:
On August 10 2009 14:37 mikeymoo wrote:
Good effort overall. I think the players/roles were fairly balanced.
Showtime fuck you I'm never playing a game with you again. And before your large ego decides that it's because you're too good at this game, I suggest that you take a look at your "confirmed" list of pretty much non-mafia.
Pyrr, thank you for hosting. This must be such a pain in the ass.
mikeymoo out.
Can you enlighten me what you consider a waste/bs post? I asked this question earlier, but no one answered me.
Does it have to do with coloring your name red to mean it is accurate? Or do you think my filler posts in between aren't enjoyable?
On May 24 2009 15:12 mikeymoo wrote:
This is how players generally read posts when there's 4+ pages to catch up on.
"filler... filler... OOH BIG POST WITH COLOURS MUST BE ACCURATE...
filler... filler... malongo's an idiot... L is lashing out... filler...
OOH COLOURS"
I think it was Caller's strategy to blend in not making informative posts but still posting.
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Voting has been extended until 10:00 PM PST.
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On January 10 2010 02:24 L wrote: HEY LOOK YOU FIGURED IT OUT. Show nested quote +So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time. Nah, the plan was pretty good if you funneled the DT confirmation through someone that was more certain to be green (me for instance, or through zato after his vigi hit goes off, for instance) it essentially pays huge dividends; the only way mafia can fake into it is by risking 2 members. If he's GF, the trade is DT for GF, which is a net plus for mafia because the other two members get off the "dt clock", so to speak, but he never even gets that option if the information is funneled elsewhere: ie through me. Pretty much everything objectively pointed to him not being a medic when he claimed day 1, which is why you should have interpreted the event as someone fake claiming medic for another purpose. Either way, today we lynch mikey unless someone comes up with something better.
You forgot the second part of my post. If you can kill the DT and trade for GF you become in good shape T_T
I still don't think this plan clears Judge.
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Something is wrong here. I just can't put my finger on it, though.
L is okay with Chezinu's thoughts, and is relying on someone else to come up with something better.
Zato was pretty proactive day 1 then disappeared.
Ace isn't mad at anyone day 2, apparently.
And RoL is the most active.
Something is most definitely wrong.
Well anyway even if Mikey and Chez are both townies and we kill them both and the mafia gets one more kill, we'll have 7 people left with 3 mafia. MYLO at the worst.
But still, I just can't shake the feeling that there's something missing.
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On January 10 2010 10:25 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 02:24 L wrote:you get confirmed by death HEY LOOK YOU FIGURED IT OUT. So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time. Nah, the plan was pretty good if you funneled the DT confirmation through someone that was more certain to be green (me for instance, or through zato after his vigi hit goes off, for instance) it essentially pays huge dividends; the only way mafia can fake into it is by risking 2 members. If he's GF, the trade is DT for GF, which is a net plus for mafia because the other two members get off the "dt clock", so to speak, but he never even gets that option if the information is funneled elsewhere: ie through me. Pretty much everything objectively pointed to him not being a medic when he claimed day 1, which is why you should have interpreted the event as someone fake claiming medic for another purpose. Either way, today we lynch mikey unless someone comes up with something better. You forgot the second part of my post. If you can kill the DT and trade for GF you become in good shape T_T I still don't think this plan clears Judge.
The GF only trades for the DT if the information isn't funneled through a green third party. Otherwise, if judge was the GF, put himself up for lynch and dies while funneling his information through another party, he would die and obtain no information besides knowing who the DT's mouth would be.
Trading the GF for the DT is a fantastic setup.
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On January 10 2010 13:28 Scamp wrote:
Something is wrong here. I just can't put my finger on it, though.
L is okay with Chezinu's thoughts, and is relying on someone else to come up with something better.
Zato was pretty proactive day 1 then disappeared.
Ace isn't mad at anyone day 2, apparently.
And RoL is the most active.
Something is most definitely wrong.
Well anyway even if Mikey and Chez are both townies and we kill them both and the mafia gets one more kill, we'll have 7 people left with 3 mafia. MYLO at the worst.
But still, I just can't shake the feeling that there's something missing.
I'm not so much 'okay' with chez's thoughts, so much as I think that regardless of if he's bullshitting or not, mikey should be killed first. If mikey is mafia, we don't vig chez. If mikey is innocent, we vig chez.
Even if mikey flips mafia, I don't think that clears chez.
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Canada7170 Posts
On January 10 2010 14:16 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 13:28 Scamp wrote:
Something is wrong here. I just can't put my finger on it, though.
L is okay with Chezinu's thoughts, and is relying on someone else to come up with something better.
Zato was pretty proactive day 1 then disappeared.
Ace isn't mad at anyone day 2, apparently.
And RoL is the most active.
Something is most definitely wrong.
Well anyway even if Mikey and Chez are both townies and we kill them both and the mafia gets one more kill, we'll have 7 people left with 3 mafia. MYLO at the worst.
But still, I just can't shake the feeling that there's something missing. I'm not so much 'okay' with chez's thoughts, so much as I think that regardless of if he's bullshitting or not, mikey should be killed first. If mikey is mafia, we don't vig chez. If mikey is innocent, we vig chez. Even if mikey flips mafia, I don't think that clears chez.
This last sentence. This is why you always kill the roleclaimer.
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Night 2:
Kicking and screaming about the injustice of his death, mikeymoo was slowly lowered into the mouth of a cannon. The executioner gave the signal, and ignited the cannon. The town cheered as mikeymoo flew through the air and was impaled as he landed on the horns of a large 800 pound cow. moo.
All roles send in your actions for the night. You have until 9:00 PM tomorrow.
Night post may be irregular again. Hopefully not too late though.
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? lol, he was mafia...wow!
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woo, chez is 99.9% legit now
based on his voting pattern and his lack of yelling at people in the thread, I suggest the vig hits ace tonight to hit the gf.
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Sweet, one down two to go.
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woo, chez is 99.9% legit now Not really. Could have been a sacrifice to gain trust.
But hey mikey. That's why we kill the roleclaimer, right?
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On January 10 2010 14:16 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 13:28 Scamp wrote:
Something is wrong here. I just can't put my finger on it, though.
L is okay with Chezinu's thoughts, and is relying on someone else to come up with something better.
Zato was pretty proactive day 1 then disappeared.
Ace isn't mad at anyone day 2, apparently.
And RoL is the most active.
Something is most definitely wrong.
Well anyway even if Mikey and Chez are both townies and we kill them both and the mafia gets one more kill, we'll have 7 people left with 3 mafia. MYLO at the worst.
But still, I just can't shake the feeling that there's something missing. I'm not so much 'okay' with chez's thoughts, so much as I think that regardless of if he's bullshitting or not, mikey should be killed first. If mikey is mafia, we don't vig chez. If mikey is innocent, we vig chez. Even if mikey flips mafia, I don't think that clears chez.
I agree with this. TBH I don't really understand the killing of HeavenOnEarth... he didn't carry that much power within the town; I would have expected someone like L, Ace or Vivi to get the first hit.
I don't know about Chez. While I doubt he's mafia, I also seriously doubt he's DT, so nobody should RC to him.
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Hey bros, Some people didn't vote to kill mikey. They are suspicious.
Sup Ace :3
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Canada7170 Posts
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On January 10 2010 14:16 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 13:28 Scamp wrote:
Something is wrong here. I just can't put my finger on it, though.
L is okay with Chezinu's thoughts, and is relying on someone else to come up with something better.
Zato was pretty proactive day 1 then disappeared.
Ace isn't mad at anyone day 2, apparently.
And RoL is the most active.
Something is most definitely wrong.
Well anyway even if Mikey and Chez are both townies and we kill them both and the mafia gets one more kill, we'll have 7 people left with 3 mafia. MYLO at the worst.
But still, I just can't shake the feeling that there's something missing. I'm not so much 'okay' with chez's thoughts, so much as I think that regardless of if he's bullshitting or not, mikey should be killed first. If mikey is mafia, we don't vig chez. If mikey is innocent, we vig chez. Even if mikey flips mafia, I don't think that clears chez.
I think another DT would role claim within the next night phase if Chezinu isn't really a DT. That is why its a gambit, they can lose 2/3 mafia if there is a DT and they bull that shit. That is why I am not too worried about it in this game as I would be in other mafia games with more mafia members.
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On January 10 2010 15:38 mikeymoo wrote:
X_X
^o^
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On January 10 2010 15:25 L wrote: Not really. Could have been a sacrifice to gain trust. But hey mikey. That's why we kill the roleclaimer, right?
Really now L. The mafia would have to be really stupid to risk this and lose one of their own just to chez get the trust of the town. The only time mafia EVER have caused the death of one of their own was pyrr fucking up a couple games ago.
so yeah, don't claim to chez, but I'm pretty sure he's town
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On January 10 2010 15:26 nemY wrote:
I agree with this. TBH I don't really understand the killing of HeavenOnEarth... he didn't carry that much power within the town; I would have expected someone like L, Ace or Vivi to get the first hit.
It's called a frame. Myself and L were prime lynch possibilities walking into today - myself because I was claiming, L because he kept advocating my plan which I kept under wraps. HeavOnEarth was a nightkill who didn't draw attention to anyone, something a smart-scum in mine or L's positions would have been happy with. It was meant to look like L or myself would've made the NK.
BTW, does everyone fucking understand why I kept saying "I can't tell you everything." now? Ace is excluded, although I must've hit a nerve or something with my post.
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On January 10 2010 15:59 Vivi57 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 15:25 L wrote:woo, chez is 99.9% legit now Not really. Could have been a sacrifice to gain trust. But hey mikey. That's why we kill the roleclaimer, right? Really now L. The mafia would have to be really stupid to risk this and lose one of their own just to chez get the trust of the town. The only time mafia EVER have caused the death of one of their own was pyrr fucking up a couple games ago. so yeah, don't claim to chez, but I'm pretty sure he's town
KP isn't affected this game. So losing one, especially with a GF still remaining, is no big loss.
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On January 10 2010 16:02 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 15:59 Vivi57 wrote:On January 10 2010 15:25 L wrote:woo, chez is 99.9% legit now Not really. Could have been a sacrifice to gain trust. But hey mikey. That's why we kill the roleclaimer, right? Really now L. The mafia would have to be really stupid to risk this and lose one of their own just to chez get the trust of the town. The only time mafia EVER have caused the death of one of their own was pyrr fucking up a couple games ago. so yeah, don't claim to chez, but I'm pretty sure he's town KP isn't affected this game. So losing one, especially with a GF still remaining, is no big loss.
but giving the town a 1 day advantage in a ~5 day game is a big loss
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On January 10 2010 16:17 Vivi57 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 16:02 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 10 2010 15:59 Vivi57 wrote:On January 10 2010 15:25 L wrote:woo, chez is 99.9% legit now Not really. Could have been a sacrifice to gain trust. But hey mikey. That's why we kill the roleclaimer, right? Really now L. The mafia would have to be really stupid to risk this and lose one of their own just to chez get the trust of the town. The only time mafia EVER have caused the death of one of their own was pyrr fucking up a couple games ago. so yeah, don't claim to chez, but I'm pretty sure he's town KP isn't affected this game. So losing one, especially with a GF still remaining, is no big loss. but giving the town a 1 day advantage in a ~5 day game is a big loss
Let's assume that we mislynch every day, and mafia kills every night. No vigi for the sake of easyness.
D1: 12 (3), N1: 11 (3)
D2: 10 (3), N2: 9 (3)
D3: 8 (3), N3: 7(3)
D4 6(3) [LYLO]
Now lets assume they give us a freebie on D2 (basically, let's assume Chez is scum). No vigi again.
D1: 12(3), N1: 11(3)
D2: 10 (3), N2: 9(2)
Now. At this point, Chez is believed to be town. People WILL claim to him. He can claim to investigate someone, clear them and then kill them later on. He just avoids his mafia buddy and keeps him under the radar.
D3: 8(2), N3: 7(2)
D4: 6(2), N4: 5(2)
D5: 4(2) [LYLO]
Hell, on D5 he can claim to have a guilty and lead a mislynch and gg.
It really doesn't set Mafia back to do this. The other benefit is, if we kill Chez tomorrow - who the fuck can we link him to? He's been as arbitrary as possible this entire game, votehopping on D1, PMing everyone and quoting them. Who is safe?
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My day 1 instincts have been verified.
+Confidence.
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hmmm, I have a question for everyone. If someone asked you to be their mouth in order to lynch someone who turned out to be mafia, could the person who asked you be mafia? It's just a hypothetical question..
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I think the most important question we have for tonight is whom do we vig hit? Assuming Zato (or is it Scamp? I'm kinda drunk and too lazy to check) are our vigilante, he is likely to get hit right now unless we make a vig hit on someone. Do we hit Chez, cuz we don't trust him (I know I don't)? Do we hit Ace cuz of his suspicious behavior? Do we hit Judge because we believe him to be GF? I guess i feel like this should be discussed because we're basically given a second lynch opportunity, bu with a limitied timeline to use it.
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On January 10 2010 19:44 nemY wrote:
I think the most important question we have for tonight is whom do we vig hit? Assuming Zato (or is it Scamp? I'm kinda drunk and too lazy to check) are our vigilante, he is likely to get hit right now unless we make a vig hit on someone. Do we hit Chez, cuz we don't trust him (I know I don't)? Do we hit Ace cuz of his suspicious behavior? Do we hit Judge because we believe him to be GF? I guess i feel like this should be discussed because we're basically given a second lynch opportunity, bu with a limitied timeline to use it.
stop rushing to get people killed... You are drunk and are not thinking clearly! Wait til tomorrow and I will make a decision on who to kill maybe.. maybe... we will see. Until then ignore any suspicion I may cast in my next post.
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Scamp....scamp...scamp...why!!!!!
So I was just looking at some pms I had with Scamp...
+ Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 1/7/10 12:38
Well I don't have a reason not to answer, and I like anything interesting or different no matter where it comes from, as long as it doesn't injure me or affect my gag reflex.
For the hell of it, I will roleclaim back. I am a simple townie. Now you have absolutely no reason to kill me if you are mafia unless somehow I make myself worth more than I really am.
Also your should be you're. Grammar nazi me. I explained this somewhere in the thread already.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Very good answer!!! I like you! You always answer my questions no matter how crazy they are in all the games I played. With that I shall do the unspeakable!!! ROLECLAIM!!!!!! ON DAY 1!!!!!! I am....
the detective
Now if your mafia, you have no choice but to kill me tonight! muhahhahahhahahahhhaha!!!! Tell nemy hi for me, k.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Well they do seem to be getting along abnormally well. By that I mean they haven't threatened to kill each other yet. Sure they're arguing and disagreeing, but that's not enough when it comes to these two. So L and Ace being on the same team is not out of the question.
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Original Message:
alright thanks. So Judge isn't an ally with both L and Ace. So do you think L and Ace are of the same team?
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Original Message:
You need to be more specific, but if I were a Judge I wouldn't wear anything anywhere that couldn't be seen anyway.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Do you think a judge wears shoe laces?
I told Scamp to say hi to nemY and you know what he does? do you?
he did this!:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 12:50 Scamp wrote:
I just got back and I finished reading the thread.
Also: Hi NemY!
The only thing I don't want is a no-lynch. I'd prefer Malongo over Judge. I think those are my only options.
Then the following conversation occured the next day!:
+ Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: If I die tonight
Date: 1/8/10 08:43
Yep, shouldn't be a problem.
That is, if they kill you and you flip detective.
Also, why don't you post the PMs that incriminate Mikey?
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
YOU MUST GET MIKEYMOO KILLED!!! If I die, he must be lynched!
Finally, the worse of them all
+ Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: uh oh...
Date: 1/9/10 12:48
Hmmm....good point. Hopefully someone else will compile a list before the day ends.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Yay! I <3 you. Btw, Heavonearth was the last person I know who compiled a list.
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Original Message:
No, but I guess I'll find out.
Also I need to check what Judge has said so far. I'll probably be voting Mikey soon, unless Judge has said nothing on the topic at all.
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Original Message:
Do you know what happens to those who compile other people's quotes?
Scamp has been playing nice all game, just way too nice! He seems too much like a townie to me...
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On January 10 2010 19:59 Chezinu wrote:Scamp....scamp...scamp...why!!!!! So I was just looking at some pms I had with Scamp... + Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 1/7/10 12:38
Well I don't have a reason not to answer, and I like anything interesting or different no matter where it comes from, as long as it doesn't injure me or affect my gag reflex.
For the hell of it, I will roleclaim back. I am a simple townie. Now you have absolutely no reason to kill me if you are mafia unless somehow I make myself worth more than I really am.
Also your should be you're. Grammar nazi me. I explained this somewhere in the thread already.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Very good answer!!! I like you! You always answer my questions no matter how crazy they are in all the games I played. With that I shall do the unspeakable!!! ROLECLAIM!!!!!! ON DAY 1!!!!!! I am....
the detective
Now if your mafia, you have no choice but to kill me tonight! muhahhahahhahahahhhaha!!!! Tell nemy hi for me, k.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Well they do seem to be getting along abnormally well. By that I mean they haven't threatened to kill each other yet. Sure they're arguing and disagreeing, but that's not enough when it comes to these two. So L and Ace being on the same team is not out of the question.
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Original Message:
alright thanks. So Judge isn't an ally with both L and Ace. So do you think L and Ace are of the same team?
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Original Message:
You need to be more specific, but if I were a Judge I wouldn't wear anything anywhere that couldn't be seen anyway.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Do you think a judge wears shoe laces? I told Scamp to say hi to nemY and you know what he does? do you? he did this!: + Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 12:50 Scamp wrote:
I just got back and I finished reading the thread.
Also: Hi NemY!
The only thing I don't want is a no-lynch. I'd prefer Malongo over Judge. I think those are my only options. Then the following conversation occured the next day!: + Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: If I die tonight
Date: 1/8/10 08:43
Yep, shouldn't be a problem.
That is, if they kill you and you flip detective.
Also, why don't you post the PMs that incriminate Mikey?
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
YOU MUST GET MIKEYMOO KILLED!!! If I die, he must be lynched! Finally, the worse of them all + Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: uh oh...
Date: 1/9/10 12:48
Hmmm....good point. Hopefully someone else will compile a list before the day ends.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Yay! I <3 you. Btw, Heavonearth was the last person I know who compiled a list.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
No, but I guess I'll find out.
Also I need to check what Judge has said so far. I'll probably be voting Mikey soon, unless Judge has said nothing on the topic at all.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Do you know what happens to those who compile other people's quotes? Scamp has been playing nice all game, just way too nice! He seems too much like a townie to me...
ok, sounds like we have our dt target for tonight. If scamp turns out to be town, I think we can go ahead and vig ace.
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On January 10 2010 20:11 Vivi57 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 19:59 Chezinu wrote:Scamp....scamp...scamp...why!!!!! So I was just looking at some pms I had with Scamp... + Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 1/7/10 12:38
Well I don't have a reason not to answer, and I like anything interesting or different no matter where it comes from, as long as it doesn't injure me or affect my gag reflex.
For the hell of it, I will roleclaim back. I am a simple townie. Now you have absolutely no reason to kill me if you are mafia unless somehow I make myself worth more than I really am.
Also your should be you're. Grammar nazi me. I explained this somewhere in the thread already.
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Original Message:
Very good answer!!! I like you! You always answer my questions no matter how crazy they are in all the games I played. With that I shall do the unspeakable!!! ROLECLAIM!!!!!! ON DAY 1!!!!!! I am....
the detective
Now if your mafia, you have no choice but to kill me tonight! muhahhahahhahahahhhaha!!!! Tell nemy hi for me, k.
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Original Message:
Well they do seem to be getting along abnormally well. By that I mean they haven't threatened to kill each other yet. Sure they're arguing and disagreeing, but that's not enough when it comes to these two. So L and Ace being on the same team is not out of the question.
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Original Message:
alright thanks. So Judge isn't an ally with both L and Ace. So do you think L and Ace are of the same team?
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Original Message:
You need to be more specific, but if I were a Judge I wouldn't wear anything anywhere that couldn't be seen anyway.
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Original Message:
Do you think a judge wears shoe laces? I told Scamp to say hi to nemY and you know what he does? do you? he did this!: + Show Spoiler +On January 07 2010 12:50 Scamp wrote:
I just got back and I finished reading the thread.
Also: Hi NemY!
The only thing I don't want is a no-lynch. I'd prefer Malongo over Judge. I think those are my only options. Then the following conversation occured the next day!: + Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: If I die tonight
Date: 1/8/10 08:43
Yep, shouldn't be a problem.
That is, if they kill you and you flip detective.
Also, why don't you post the PMs that incriminate Mikey?
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Original Message:
YOU MUST GET MIKEYMOO KILLED!!! If I die, he must be lynched! Finally, the worse of them all + Show Spoiler +From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: uh oh...
Date: 1/9/10 12:48
Hmmm....good point. Hopefully someone else will compile a list before the day ends.
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Original Message:
Yay! I <3 you. Btw, Heavonearth was the last person I know who compiled a list.
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Original Message:
No, but I guess I'll find out.
Also I need to check what Judge has said so far. I'll probably be voting Mikey soon, unless Judge has said nothing on the topic at all.
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Original Message:
Do you know what happens to those who compile other people's quotes? Scamp has been playing nice all game, just way too nice! He seems too much like a townie to me... ok, sounds like we have our dt target for tonight. If scamp turns out to be town, I think we can go ahead and vig ace.
Lol? Are you serious?
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Ace, come post! You must save yourself! Oh wait that sounds familiar,,,,save yourself....hmmm....can't seem to place it....
Oh well! Ace just post that long post of yours! You should be done by now!
On January 08 2010 20:51 Ace wrote:
this is all interesting. I guess tomorrow I'll have to make a long post about Zato-1, Judge, MM and Chezinu.
Hurry up and say something and start accusing people so that I can hijack the lynch again!
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Someone mentioned my posting activity has dropped since the first few days. I has, and mostly because I felt the Town was either going in a good direction or I couldn't make meaningful contributions at those moments in time. Day 1 was important, because we had to decide lynch targets and I thought Malongo was a better target than Judge; Night 1, there wasn't a whole lot to do. I could've hit someone then and there, but I wasn't terribly certain I'd get a mafia with my hit, especially after I'd just misread Malongo.
Day 2, Chez presented a very easy choice for the rest of us. Not much to say until that lynch was made so we could draw some conclusions. That said, thank you Chez for helping us lynch a mafia. This does not mean you're a confirmed Town member now, for the reason many posted before me- you could just be mafia making a sacrifice to gain Town trust.
So now we're here, Night 2. I have a decision to make, and I'll inform you of my decision prior to sending Incognito the PM. I just want to check a few things before I make my decision.
As to Medic actions for the night? Good targets would be, IMO:
* Zato-1: Some strongly suspect me of being Town already, and after my hit tonight, I'll be in a good position to ask Townies for roleclaims via PM.
* L: He's a player with name-brand recognition, people will take him seriously and more importantly will be influenced by him, and he's been unambiguously pro-Town in his posts so far, both in form and substance. On top of that, I think he probably is Town-aligned so far.
I can't think of many others. As I mentioned previously, I also think Judge is on the Town side, but since his plan couldn't be completed, it'll be hard for him to garner much leadership in the days to come. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of trust in the Town for his figure. As to Chezinu, he might be a DT and thus warrant a medic cover. But based on his posts thus far, I don't think he'd merit it. He'd need to make a strong case for himself soon if he wanted to be on my medic cover list.
DT check for tonight...
You could check me, but you're gonna get Vigilante anyway, even if I was the Godfather. As I mentioned previously, the _only_ RC that you can be 100% sure is accurate is the one in which your target comes up as a vanilla mafia member. If I had to suggest a list of who I think could come up as vanilla mafia members in a RC, it'd be something like:
*nemY
*Vivi57
It's a weak hunch so if someone has a better idea, hopefully backed up with arguments, please let us know. And btw, this does not mean those two are my prime mafia suspects for killing tonight. My prime mafia suspect for tonight would probably be the Godfather, if I'm right about him.
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That's it? You dropped off because you didn't have anything to say, and you come back with a medic list of yourself and L?
I don't know why people keep including L on their medic list even when he doesn't do anything. Incognito did the same thing the last game I was in. I don't suspect him as strongly as I did the last game but I certainly don't see the unambiguous town-aligned posting.
My strongest suspicion right now lies with Ace. Ace was supposed to interrogate those responsible for the Malongo lynch and he made it very clear that he was going to do so, but he never did. So the way I see it he's either mafia or a townie that doesn't care anymore. I don't see a reason to keep him around.
I was thinking that either L or Ace has to be mafia, based on the way they're acting. It could be that they're both town-aligned, but they aren't trying to kill each other so I think that option is out. Ace isn't getting himself killed at all, so I'm suspicious. L could be posting just enough to look active and town-aligned, mostly asking easy questions and commenting on plans. Not as suspicious as last game, but certainly not unquestionably town.
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Also: Nemy sent me a PM titled "sup" with no content.
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On January 11 2010 03:26 Scamp wrote:
That's it? You dropped off because you didn't have anything to say, and you come back with a medic list of yourself and L?
I don't know why people keep including L on their medic list even when he doesn't do anything. Incognito did the same thing the last game I was in. I don't suspect him as strongly as I did the last game but I certainly don't see the unambiguous town-aligned posting.
My strongest suspicion right now lies with Ace. Ace was supposed to interrogate those responsible for the Malongo lynch and he made it very clear that he was going to do so, but he never did. So the way I see it he's either mafia or a townie that doesn't care anymore. I don't see a reason to keep him around.
I was thinking that either L or Ace has to be mafia, based on the way they're acting. It could be that they're both town-aligned, but they aren't trying to kill each other so I think that option is out. Ace isn't getting himself killed at all, so I'm suspicious. L could be posting just enough to look active and town-aligned, mostly asking easy questions and commenting on plans. Not as suspicious as last game, but certainly not unquestionably town.
But...Ace said town doesn't lie...Are you saying he lied?
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On January 11 2010 03:30 Scamp wrote:
Also: Nemy sent me a PM titled "sup" with no content.
obvious he is replaying to your message in the forum saying hi to him!
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No editing rule is getting annoying, I keep writing the wrong words. Maybe, I should think before I type? Nah...
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Okay, so. Tonight, I'm hitting Ace. Why? Here's a list of Ace's posts from the last mafia game I played, in which he was mafia:
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [1] +On August 20 2009 10:54 Ace wrote:
o shit wtf 5 hours passed fast On August 20 2009 10:58 Ace wrote:
can someone update me on everything that happened? I skimmed and saw people suggesting to lynch me? On August 20 2009 11:03 Ace wrote:
ok so Sato snitched on himself lulz
Medics aren't informed of prots? :/ That sucks.
Vigi shouldn't hit anyone until they are solid the person is red. On August 20 2009 11:10 Ace wrote:
:/
Well enough about me, what are we doing right now? On August 20 2009 11:23 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:21 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
zato was the one that brought up Satoux That pretty much ups Zeto's innocence. If he was really anti-town I doubt he'd want to cast a spotlight on his own Mafia ally. Especially in a game this small. Other than this there aren't even any patterns yet are there? Day 1 votes don't seem too telling. On August 20 2009 11:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:24 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
on the other hand both Foolishness and Midori accused Chezinu yesterday Why would we kill him then if we were mafia? Why not? Just because you accused someone doesn't hold weight. It would be one thing if you accused Chezinu and the town rallied behind you but you didn't have time to lynch. Then it would have been dumb to kill him. However that didn't happen. You accused him, but no one really went with it. By killing Chezinu you lose nothing since you didn't have any support in the first place. On August 20 2009 11:33 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:30 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:28 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:24 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
on the other hand both Foolishness and Midori accused Chezinu yesterday Why would we kill him then if we were mafia? Why not? Just because you accused someone doesn't hold weight. It would be one thing if you accused Chezinu and the town rallied behind you but you didn't have time to lynch. Then it would have been dumb to kill him. However that didn't happen. You accused him, but no one really went with it. By killing Chezinu you lose nothing since you didn't have any support in the first place. It would seem rather out of place, more than anything. I don't particularly think Chezinu was a good hit, unless there was reason to think he was blue. Chezinu drew a lot of attention to himself, he seemed more beneficial to the mafia alive than dead. I understand what you're saying but it just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Chezinu seemed normal :/ Either way I guess the good news is no one super valuable has been killed yet (lol sorry Chez) On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. On August 20 2009 11:39 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:37 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. Do you have a better candidate? Outside of me since I can't really vote for myself well between you, Qatol and Pyrr something isn't right 1.) You voted for Inf 2.) Qatol votes for Inf and THEN posts a reason for it 3.) Pyrr votes for inf and also posts a reason Seems odd doesn't it? Especially since you're vote came in first before any reasonings. On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:42 Qatol wrote:On August 20 2009 11:39 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:37 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. Do you have a better candidate? Outside of me since I can't really vote for myself well between you, Qatol and Pyrr something isn't right 1.) You voted for Inf 2.) Qatol votes for Inf and THEN posts a reason for it 3.) Pyrr votes for inf and also posts a reason Seems odd doesn't it? Especially since you're vote came in first before any reasonings. You're really worried that I voted before posting my reasoning? Maybe I voted while figuring out exactly what to write because it's a speed game? no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? On August 20 2009 11:56 Ace wrote:
also Midori too, I didn't even realize he voted. On August 20 2009 12:02 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:57 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? As a matter of fact, I would. I can defend myself by saying that my behavior against infundibulum has been consistent with the previous days, as I have previously said. infundibulum did a great job roleclaiming to the town too, especially telling Qatol at the last minute. To give my reasonings again, I have been moving around votes all game to get discussion going. I started the lynch on Satoux, which helps proves my innocence. Pyrry has laid out some important information pertaining to this as well. I can understand if you want to think Pyrry and I as the two remaining mafia, as that would make sense, but that's simply not the case. I cannot speak on behalf of other people though. Qatol's posts in the thread annoy me to death, Pyrry is unusually quiet (of course without clues he's nearly useless). The Sato thing is over and done with but it does look good for you. I'm just saying you can't go around starting bandwagons, and when they turn out wrong act like it's just an oops moment. One of you guys has to pay. @Midori: Ok be suspicious of me but I didnt get a medic killed did I. On August 20 2009 12:06 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? I can understand your suspicion of foolish, qatol, and myself at this point but why Zato, if I may ask? He changed his vote a lot but that last minute switch from me to infun wouldn't seem like something a mafia would do since infun looked dead already and a mafia would have known infun was innocent. Which would actually be a good Mafia defense don't you think? "I can't be Mafia, my vote didn't even change anything!" On August 20 2009 12:12 Ace wrote:Qatol if Infundibulum was a Medic how could he safely make that claim to you? He'd never know your role On August 20 2009 12:18 Ace wrote:
@Vivi: How has he sacrificed his own? You guys all said Sato pretty much told on himself so how is that relevant? On August 20 2009 12:21 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:19 Zato-1 wrote:
Ace, you haven't been very active this game. Why is that? Your kidding right? You mean I haven't just started accusing everyone of being mafia all willy nilly is more like it. I've only focused on the mistakes that I've seen this game and the fact that some of you except Foolishness won't even embrace is it is suspicious. Pyrr had a so-so defense. But you and Qatol have pretty much ignored me. On August 20 2009 12:22 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:20 Zato-1 wrote:
By 'inactive', I mean unhelpful in finding mafia. @Ace we've only found 1, what do you want me to do magically pull one out my hat? On August 20 2009 12:26 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:23 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 12:21 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 12:19 Zato-1 wrote:
Ace, you haven't been very active this game. Why is that? Your kidding right? You mean I haven't just started accusing everyone of being mafia all willy nilly is more like it. I've only focused on the mistakes that I've seen this game and the fact that some of you except Foolishness won't even embrace is it is suspicious. Pyrr had a so-so defense. But you and Qatol have pretty much ignored me. I convinced Zato to vote for infundibulum at the last minute. I do not believe we should be looking at Zato, but rather other people. just because you did that doesn't mean he's town aligned. On August 20 2009 12:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:25 Foolishness wrote:
Okay this needs to come out right now.
I am the detective. I have checked both Qatol and Pyrry, and both have turned up green. This should help explain why things happened the way they did. Ok Foolishness, you see the wagon right? Seriously man. Just look at the voting thread. On August 20 2009 12:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:30 Qatol wrote:On August 20 2009 12:28 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 12:25 Foolishness wrote:
Okay this needs to come out right now.
I am the detective. I have checked both Qatol and Pyrry, and both have turned up green. This should help explain why things happened the way they did. Ok Foolishness, you see the wagon right? Seriously man. Just look at the voting thread. Wagon's a bit big for the remaining of mafia, don't you think? 2 mafia left 3 people claiming to be working together being coordinated by rolechecks. So the conclusion is mafia? Yea because it's the SAME people that got it wrong the first time. You mean to tell me you guys shouldn't be looking at your little group for the answers as to where the suspicions should go? On August 20 2009 12:32 Ace wrote:
and look at the shit you did now On August 20 2009 12:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:34 Zato-1 wrote:
If we have a Vigi... you need to hit Foolishness. He is most definitely mafia. ....
You can easily categorize all of his posts in two categories:
Chaff: He talks but essentially says nothing. Posts # 1 through 6, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, 19 and 20 are of this kind.
Guilt Trips: Since he's basically committed to nothing all game, he weighs down on those who have done something whenever they were wrong. Posts #7, 11, 13, 17, 18, 21, 22 and 23 are of this kind.
Ace's strategy was to sit back, feign activity, and pounce on Town members whenever they made a mistake.
Now, take a look at Ace's posts in the current game:
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [1] +On January 05 2010 21:24 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 15:39 L wrote:
Dear morans.
There's nearly nothing to talk about on the first day if no one talks, and we have no mayoral business to vote for.
Because of this, and because I like making people post stupid garbage, I propose we go round table and each say who we want to off day one.
So far, I've done around 5 minutes of thinking and I'm going to sleep directly after I type this post, so this won't be pretty or eloquent, but here's what I'm thinking so far.
1. RebirthOfLeGend
2. Ace
3. L
4. vx70GTOJudgexv
5. Scamp
6. Zato-1
7. Chezinu
8. nemY
9. HeavOnEarth
10. Vivi57
11. ketomai
12. Mikeymoo
13. Malongo
2) I hate vivi. RoL's dumb. Chezinu is a gigantic waste of a player, regardless of which side he's on, and nemy hasn't played in a while, and played somewhat subpar last game we were in due to inactivity. Granted that these are all easy "dumb" targets, I'll be extra risk and not pick any of them to see how people react.
%) Alternate plan is to kill people who we know are fucking useless and who won't 'fuck up' because they're so fucking inactive. If that's the case, i'd hit nemY first. Not that I hate the guy or anything, but there's some weird fucking 'stupid' sympathy which keeps vivi alive when I try to get him killed and I'm kinda hoping Chezinu doesn't do his standard stupid shit. If he does, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to start killing him day 1-2 in every game he joins until he stops being a moron. I agree that killing useless players is always a sound strategy when there isn't a better idea. Of course with the what, 15 or so mafia games played so far that list isn't exactly hard to populate at the moment: 1.) vivi57 2.) nemy 3.) RebirthofLegend And if any of you remember last game with the huge fuck ups of 3 players in particular the prime candidate for most detrimental to the town is RoL. He doesn't read and is a sheep. He's easily influenced and lets his emotions get to him and rarely if ever helps the town. Last game he didn't even realize he was being manipulated until the very end. Vivi57 and nemy, well you guys already know how terrible both of them are. It's just that RoL is far worse than either of them. On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote:
I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics?
This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format. On January 06 2010 10:43 Ace wrote:
First of all one thing I need to make clear: I've seen medics openly claim Day 1 before in similar formats and almost every single time they end in disaster and the town loses. Now before I go into specifics of why, Judge I know you've played on Mafiascum. Assuming they are pretty good over there you've probably seen a lot of possibilities for broken cop/medic claims that is doable in this game. That's the ONLY thing that makes me even remotely think you can be a legit medic. If that wasn't possible I'd just call for your lynch. The reasoning that Mafia wouldn't fake claim a medic because it offers little gain is moot - everyone would come to the same reasoning you just did (logically) and agree the medic is obviously real because no mafia would sac himself.
Which is wrong. Mafia KP is always 1. If we all come to that logical conclusion we in fact now have a Mafia who gained something for nothing because everyone thinks it's so stupid why would they do it.
Now the other reason Medic role claims end in disaster is that if you're lying the real medic doesn't know if you're a Vet false claiming or a Mafia in disguise. Regardless they won't talk to you, the cop can't do anything once he RCs you if you aren't a Medic and you will most certainly be dead soon. I think Scamp said it pretty well earlier: This is a guessing game, but now it's no longer a blind guessing game from the Mafia side but a potential shot of information they shouldn't have this early.
If you're gambit fails and you are really the medic and you die tonight, the game is going to be ridiculously hard for the town. You've got experience. You SHOULD know that with you not being able to be confirmed through medic protections we have no incentive to believe you at all. I'm inclined to say you're move is very anti-town at the moment. On January 06 2010 10:46 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 08:46 Zato-1 wrote:
Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia. I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/ Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays). On January 07 2010 04:15 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 00:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote:
Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please. Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself. Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading. I actually forgot about the VI thing. You really just sucked last game ^_^ On January 07 2010 04:25 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 01:53 Zato-1 wrote:On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote:
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.
-For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat.
- Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side.
I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why? First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side? Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill. I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote. I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy. On January 07 2010 04:35 Ace wrote:
BTW - Judge is mafia, calling it now. On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.
Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.
I said at the end of last mini mafia that anyone role claiming medic is destined to die. The Medic role generally wants to avoid getting hit even if he can protect himself. However he/she does it is whatever, but trying to attract fire would be unwise. Hence, Judge definitely is NOT a medic. No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go? On January 07 2010 06:25 Ace wrote:
what exceptional information? I really want to know this. On January 07 2010 06:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.
If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.
Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.
I actually don't even care what his plan is. The fact that he has a plan and hasn't said a word about it speaks volumes. This is an 11 player game - what plan does he really have that's so fragile but powerful that it needs to be stated on Day 2 instead of Day 1? How does that help the town? Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. I'm not going through this "he might be blue" shit again. I've said in countless games I really don't give a shit about not lynching someone solely because they might have a power role. If you make a big gamble and you make a mistake you deserve to be at the center of the lynch discussion. On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. On January 07 2010 07:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 07:11 L wrote:Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Who's putting blind faith in him? Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him. If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good. If he does have a plan there isn't any reason to wait an entire Day to tell us. This is really one of the big signs painting him as Mafia to me. There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. This is the same thing we go through every game where for some reason people assume someone must be telling the truth IF they have a plan. Show nested quote +Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. Show nested quote +
There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.
When? In most of our games townies that lied have led to great disasters. Townies shouldn't be trying to lie to deceive anyone because hey - thats exactly what the Mafia are doing! And using your last sentences if Judge is a Medic then WHY WOULD HE BE WANTING TO GET HIT. Because he isn't a Medic. Show nested quote +
So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game?
I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways.
Did the last game have this rule set? I don't think so. When I claimed DT last game I was essentially invulnerable except for the Mafia having the option of switching BGs. This game has no Mayor/Pardoners so that's out of the window. There is nothing to be gained from anyone claiming to be a Medic on Day 1. Ever. Show nested quote +
Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF.
Chances are he's Vet or Mafia. That's it. Doesn't even matter if he's plain red or GF. If he's red and he gets checked by the DT that means by Day 2 the DT is immediately outed in a game where the Mafia KP doesn't change based on Judge dying. As for any other candidates no one else is even near as suspicious as Judge. Somehow Malongo is being talked about based on 1 post he threw out there when Judge has several and SHOULD be talked about even more. Where the hell is everyone else playing this game? On January 07 2010 07:37 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 07:25 Zato-1 wrote:On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like. If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb. no I'm lynching him because I think he is Mafia. I was using the way he was playing as an argument for why I think he indeed is Mafia ^_^ And yes I'm strongly opposed to Day 1 role claims in most formats. On January 07 2010 08:59 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 08:34 L wrote:There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. 1) There's a rather large reason. 2) We will be able to find out if he is. Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out. Did the last game have this rule set? Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle. Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace? Normally you aren't so short sighted . Last game I could be invincible. What are you talking about? lol have you forgotten already? It doesn't matter if you think he's a GF. The point is no one claims medic on Day 1. It's seriously a dumb move. It's like 4 pooling on an island map. There is nothing to gain. And this hey let's wait and see his plan along with this I can't tell you guys what my plan is mentality is screaming Mafia. And to top it all off now we want to lynch Malongo based on nothing? lol right. You guys are making PERFECT sense here. Answer me on how we are going to confirm judge is a medic. On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. On January 07 2010 09:23 Ace wrote:
you must be a salesman in real life On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. On January 07 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge. Does him being blue even matter? He hasn't done anything suspicious at all. And I don't have an argument for anyone else. Seriously Judge is the only person that seems suspect to me. On January 07 2010 09:46 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:45 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. I find it very odd that given that judge won't be killed that you aren't pressing to get RoL killed, and that RoL, who absolutely hates you, has been toddling around and towing your line. Sup with that, bro? why would I want RoL killed again? How is him echoing me even relevant? :/ On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. On January 07 2010 09:52 Ace wrote:
I can see just fine. Someone claims to be a Medic Day 1 and I'm supposed to just sit back and be like omg fine!
Right Judge. Right ^_^ On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@L: The only person I'd want to see die is Judge.
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. On January 07 2010 10:01 Ace wrote:
indeed L.
Except I didn't pick because neither of them seem more fishy to me than Judge.
On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. On January 07 2010 10:08 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:05 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. Then you can't use it as a defense. And I don't use meta as a way to clear people, I use it as a way to crucify them if they play to a certain meta overall. Plus, the hole in your logic is "I do it all the time" which means you can still be scum. But you made it sound earlier that defending innocents is a Mafia trait when I just proved to you that it is not. Hence why I called you out on it. You can't say me defending Malongo makes one or both of us scummy. There is no hole in my logic because I already admitted I do it regardless of my role. On January 07 2010 10:14 Ace wrote:
thats nice Judge. But like I've said before you shouldn't be surprised I'm not going for fake Medic claims. On January 07 2010 10:22 Ace wrote:
L if you're concerned about RoL why isn't anyone else voting for him? (besides me of course) On January 07 2010 10:32 Ace wrote:
That voting thread sure is something else. On January 07 2010 10:48 Ace wrote:
I know L is laughing very hard right now On January 07 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote:
Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later. stop grasping at straws. I haven't even spoken to Chezinu all game. On January 07 2010 12:48 Ace wrote:? are you serious? so you just flip flop voted multiple times, and now if Malongo dies and flips innocent you can say he had a chance to "save himself". lol interesting really. On January 07 2010 13:00 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 12:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Everyone fast lynch Chezinu XD seriously I would On January 07 2010 13:09 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:07 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
EBWOP because I'm just posting off the hilt atm.
@RoL - I'm making the assumption that there is a DT off of the constant nagging of people saying on this forum "There has to be a DT/Medic combo or else it's rape against Town."
For the record, DT/Medic is an overpowered combination in pretty much every open game if it isn't balanced out by multiple KP or a mafia roleblocker. DT can outright claim and have the medic stay in hiding and just protect him every night while he investigates while the mafia has to blindly try and snipe the medic. By then a slew of confirmed townies pop up and it's GG for mafia. We luck out in the fact that we generally use multiple KP or these games would be busted wide open by any competent two players. I said this a few pages back. DT/Medic is also somewhat busted by GF roles, but only somewhat. And the reason you need DT/Medic is because without both Mafia is just going to run wild killing everyone and people will be scared to post knowing they have no protection. On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. On January 07 2010 13:18 Ace wrote:
Not at all. More like the random out of the blue bandwagon that you guys put on Malongo was the wrong call. On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Malongo: (5)
Zato-1
vx70GTOJudgexv
L
HeavOnEarth
Scamp
Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. I'm much more inclined to believe mafia was off of this lynch, but that's my opinion right now. I feel that mafia sit back and let this one happen. I don't. 5 out of 12 possible votes and not one of them Mafia? I highly doubt it. Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects: Judge, obviously ^_^ Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle On January 07 2010 13:37 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:32 Scamp wrote:On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote:
Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects:
Judge, obviously ^_^
Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping
Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle Yes, I would be very surprised if I wasn't heavily interrogated day 2 for my actions at the end of day one. I would like to know, however, your opinions of my decision to try to avoid a no-lynch. No one commented on this. I think that a no-lynch is worse than any lynch day one. I'd actually rather we have had a no lynch. I was already against the Malongo band wagon from jump and since he didn't really do much his death wasn't going to reveal anything major. Well now that he's dead everyone that voted for him is rightfully going to be questioned. On January 08 2010 09:40 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 04:04 L wrote:
I like how the two players I specifically prodded into switching votes, so that we wouldn't end up killing malongo are now raging about the fact that we killed malongo rather than a poorer player.
Can't have it both ways, champ. I like how a long time before that I said killing malongo was a bandwagon move and we should have just killed Judge instead. It's ok though, if I survive tonight there's going to be hell on Day 2. On January 08 2010 10:14 Ace wrote:
The bandwagon at Judge was very justified: A guy claiming medic on day with a "wait and let me live" approach vs a guy who got one of his posts randomly plucked out of no where and accused.
Yes, the votes against Judge were so unjustified. Either way Day 2 someone is going to have to answer some tough questions. On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. On January 08 2010 12:04 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:44 Zato-1 wrote:On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game. But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you. more leadership? lol nice I didn't even know I was a leader yet. The 5 of you that voted malongo off are all top suspects. Especially when ya know, you were the one who started the bs bandwagon and the others hopped on to it with lame excuses. On January 08 2010 20:51 Ace wrote:
this is all interesting. I guess tomorrow I'll have to make a long post about Zato-1, Judge, MM and Chezinu.
However at this point Chez I'm pretty sure you know you're like, almost guaranteed a lynch (seriously after seeing judge RC the first day and take shit, you'd have to AT LEAST be able to find a way to convince people). Also the other reason I don't really believe you is because on the Day 1 vote you flip flopped so many times that you came off as Mafia. Seriously, why would you flip flop if you wanted to save Malongo or Judge? Just abstain if that's the case.
And yea I read your PM Chezinu, but I'm not helping you get MikeyMoo killed unless you really flip DT. Either way it's really funny how every single time someone is "on the radar" ANOTHER person comes from left field with some new info and knocks shit out of whack.
After the Chezinu/MM debacle is cleared up we'll move on to past transgressions. On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote:
WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!?
On January 08 2010 22:04 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 21:41 Zato-1 wrote:On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote:
WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!?
Because of all these accusations that are running around Town. You know, these people vote, too- I hate dealing behind closed doors and keeping everyone in the dark, and my posted PMs would only make people more restless unless I gave them closure about whether I am a Vigilante or not. So, it's all out in the open now. I was kind of expecting you'd be outraged at me and maybe push for my lynching today, but I just don't see a winning plan in what you're doing, Ace. At least, not for the Town. Yea I was (still am) outraged at you. But there was no need to role claim. I mean seriously, is everyone going to roleclaim now when we have a GF in the game? Come on man, you just saw Chez and his nonsense. I don't even think you would have gotten put on the chopping block today since chez just pulled that stunt and that path gives us a faster way to finding Mafia. On January 08 2010 22:06 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 21:42 Chezinu wrote:
I still shocked that Ace can't see that I'm blue.. how many times do I have to tell you if you didn't pull that stupid voting stunt on Day 1 I would have been more inclined to believe you? You said you didn't want to kill Judge or Malongo, told them to save themselves yet kept your vote flip flopping instead of simply abstaining. If you saw someone do that do you honestly think you'd believe they were legit? On January 09 2010 05:07 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 04:39 Scamp wrote:
As far as roleclaiming goes, I don't see the problem with someone claiming Vig.
1) It's easy as hell to confirm.
2) No GF is going to choose Vig as his cover.
3) As long as the Vig uses his power the night after he claims, there really isn't any downside to the town.
The only thing it affects as far as I can tell is that mafia are going to be more careful this day to avoid being the target. Vigi isn't exactly easy to confirm, check the rules ^_^ But either way it only looks bad because Chezinu DT claimed first. No point in mass roleclaims on the Second Day of the game when there isn't even anything to panic about. On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. On January 09 2010 14:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 14:33 Chezinu wrote:On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. Ace, you need to be more active! You seem so lost this game.. I'm active enough? Seriously though I've been in meetings and shit. And tomorrow from 12-9 ET (cringe) I'll be tutoring kids. Hopefully they let me use the internet. On January 09 2010 14:40 Ace wrote:
You've told me I'm Mafia about 7 times already. But you can keep screaming it for your own pleasure ^_^ On January 09 2010 15:53 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 15:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. I would go with what you said except for one thing. I believe killing mikeymoo gives us a better vigi candidate. While if we lynch Chezinu we only learn to either A. Vigi MM or B. Vigi someone else? If we kill MM first and hes not mafia then we know killing chez gives us scum, if MM is mafia then we should hit either L or Judge. Judge posts how MM probably is mafia but we should kill Chezinu because its some evil plan from mafia to infiltrate using Chezinu as decoy. Summary, Lynch Chez we either don't know who to vigi or we vigi MM. Lynch MM first we either kill Chez or Judge. Doesn't matter either way. Hey judge you can even confirm yourself this way too! If we have Zato hit you and you protect yourself his hit won't go through! Ok I understand why you're for killing MM...but how does that confirm Judge or even L? On January 09 2010 20:30 Ace wrote:
Oh...oh my god! Brilliant!
Surely the DT wouldn't think that the fact you purposely claimed Medic to draw an investigation to yourself and a GF isn't in the game you'd never even attempt to pull a stunt!
So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time.
Yeah, that's a lot of posts alright. But, I've done some work and categorized them for you again:
Chaff posts where he makes comments and maybe triest to set a mood or give an idea of his thoughts: Posts #1 through 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 40, 41, 44, 45, 46, 47, 49, 50, 51 and 52.
Posts with content:
Posts #34, 36, 37, 38, 42 and 43 are essentially guilt trips; someone did a mistake, and he's calling them out on it. Posts #8, 13, 15, 18, 23 and 39 are posts in which he justifies attempts to lynch Judge for his day 1 roleclaiming.
Now for the analysis:
- There's nothing suspicious about making Chaff posts. Everyone makes them, some more than others.
- Guilt Trip posts are of a different kind; when the Town makes a mistake, instead of trying to pick up the broken pieces and move on to the next course of action, Ace focuses on kicking the parties responsible for the mistake while they're down. This is done to lower Town morale and attempt to make Town players bitter, and recriminate themselves about who's responsible for what- while he sits back and watches.
- His posts against Judge are probably just the fact that his dislike for day 1 roleclaiming happened to coincide with a daring Town initiative for getting organized. Two birds with one stone there (personal satisfaction & lynching a potential Town organizer), and he can just blame his zeal against day 1 roleclaiming for persecuting Judge.
- What seems to be the connecting trend between Ace's posts? The only thing he's actually committed to, was persecuting Judge, and for a pretty bad reason at that ("I think he's lying about being a Medic, so he has to be mafia"). Other than that, he's content to sit back, make a lot of posts with little substance, and punish Town members when they make a wrong call. Does this seem like a game-winning plan for Town to you? 'cause it looks a lot more like a mafia trying to sow dissent among the Town while appearing to be active, to me.
For this reason, tonight I am going to kill Ace.
|
On January 11 2010 03:26 Scamp wrote:
That's it? You dropped off because you didn't have anything to say, and you come back with a medic list of yourself and L?
I don't know why people keep including L on their medic list even when he doesn't do anything. Incognito did the same thing the last game I was in. I don't suspect him as strongly as I did the last game but I certainly don't see the unambiguous town-aligned posting.
My strongest suspicion right now lies with Ace. Ace was supposed to interrogate those responsible for the Malongo lynch and he made it very clear that he was going to do so, but he never did. So the way I see it he's either mafia or a townie that doesn't care anymore. I don't see a reason to keep him around.
I was thinking that either L or Ace has to be mafia, based on the way they're acting. It could be that they're both town-aligned, but they aren't trying to kill each other so I think that option is out. Ace isn't getting himself killed at all, so I'm suspicious. L could be posting just enough to look active and town-aligned, mostly asking easy questions and commenting on plans. Not as suspicious as last game, but certainly not unquestionably town.
I'm not posting 'just enough' to be active and town-aligned, I'm the most prolific poster in this game, and I'm driving a huge amount of content. When Chez was originally set up as the fall guy for the claims, I drove to push his target to get killed. I kept judge alive day one because I knew what he was doing. I called out Ace, did most of the analysis on the judge claim, asked questions NO ONE asked prior to me; Why was no one talking about judge's claim prior to my 'why are you guys not talking about it?!' Why was no one talking about Heavonerth's selection for the mafia hit? Why was no one talking about lynch targets day 1.
I'll tell you why no one was talking about it; because there are a few consistent posters that posted prior to me opening up the discussions that simply didn't want to talk about said subjects. If there's an active godfather this game, he's likely in that group.
I mean, what exactly has anyone else done that puts them above that threshold? I can see a case being made for putting chez on the list given mikey's death, and no one else, really.
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I want to see RoL's reaction to this.
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Easy, yo. I said "could be".
Time to wait and see how this night turns out.
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7 more hours until the night day post (hopefully, unless I am delayed). Please get your orders in ASAP.
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OK GUYS I'M READY!!!!!!!!!!1
KILL NEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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NEMY is MAFIA!!!!!
ZOMH ZOMH OZMZOM
THIS IS FOR REAL! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!
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I am the MAD DETECTIVE!!!!
I say nemY is mafia!!!!
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Here is proof of nemY's evilness:
don't forget read bottom up:
From: nemY [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: so I was like
Date: 1/7/10 09:34
I'm the AntiChrist in this one. Quit fishing for roles buddy.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
So are you the medic?
and here I like to spread info:
Me: Original Message:
Judge, Malongo, or L?
Mikey: I'm thinking judge, but I'm still very on-the-fence and generally confused. My problem with voting Malongo is that he's more likely to be innocent than judge, imo, and starting a late train on L is going to prove difficult, given time constraints.
What are your thoughts?
~mikey
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
it was from a previous mafia game in which i role claimed DT and pretty much fucked the town over for the rest of the game. I was a legitimate DT, but in doing what I did, I basically caused a shit ton of chaos and mayhem which far benefited the mafia over the town... this is why i'm in favor of lynching Judge and against anyone ever publicly role claiming this early in the game...
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
looking at your profile and was like:
"I'm the detective"
Start above here^^
You see nemY's answer? Yeah, thats what I thought as you can see he is evil!!!
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nemY "this is why i'm in favor of lynching Judge and against anyone ever publicly role claiming this early in the game..." What??? What??? What???? I didn't mention anything about Judge in my post.... Why so defense??? CAUSE YOU ARE MAFIA!!!!!
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WOOT!!!!! You mafia's can't bury me now!!!!! Oh, you want to kill me??? TOOO LATE!!!!!! If I die, YOU DIE!!!!!!! Oh and who is left? The Godfather???? LOLOLOLOLOl... oh wait let me use my detective skills on him....lololololololol
GG!!!! TWO MAFIAs DOWN!!!! WOOOOTOTOTOTOTOO
+ Show Spoiler +Taunting mafia is sooo much fun!!1 You guys should try it!
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Oh jesus here we go again. Again.
|
Chezinu, just for the record:
1. Do you still claim you're the Detective?
2. Did you role check nemY? If so, did you get a mafia result?
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I guess I should reclaim again...
I AM DETECTIVE!!!!!
NEMY IS MAFIA!!!!!!
I ROLECHECK HIM!!! THEREFORE YOU SHOULD BELIEVE ME!!!!
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On January 09 2010 07:11 nemY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 13:25 Chezinu wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches made for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A DECTECTIVE.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start the second day.
Other detectives (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
BLIND FAITH. It is needed. For once trust somebody who you think is crazy for once. What if I really am the detective? What if I found out mikeymoo is mafia? Let me think....
Why else would one abandon the brown? I have seen the light! Never before have this happen! Crazy things happen in incog's world! Last time I visited this world my father Ace betrayed me! This is not a world for brown but of blue! Listen to my words! I truly am the Detective! Mikeyoo is mafia!!!
I could not think of any reasonable way to tell you guess im blue. Just look at the statistics. I have never been blue before not once. You think I would ever abandon the brown for any other reason?
So I call upon the GREAT LACES to help me lead this town to lynch mikeymoo! This move is so unbelievably dumb on every aspect of the game that I feel forced to disregard it all-together. If you really are the DT why would you do this? SACRIFICING YOURSELF FOR ONE MAFIA IS NOT A JUST CAUSE ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOESN'T ALTER THE KP. No rather I think you think you're so sure mikeymoo is mafia that you're willing to lie to convince the town. Why you're so sure of mikeymoo being mafia? I don't know the exact reason but I know you're not a dt, BECAUSE A DT WOULD NEVER GIVE THEMSELVES UP UNLESS THEY'RE SURE THEY HAVE PROTECTION.
I IS ARE THE DT!!!!!!!
On January 09 2010 07:28 Chezinu wrote:he needs to plit the votes in order to save mikeymoo obv? Or is he saving me? Oh nemY, you are so nice! + Show Spoiler +I think I should start doing this, above was a joke
THIS IS NOT A JOKE!!!!
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I guess I should share more pm's that I had with nemY!
To: nemY [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Just need a little faith
Date: 1/9/10 07:21
You are really close to figuring me out. But I know 100% that mikey is mafia. *hint hint*
He didn't even respond to me!! Reminds me of mikey... Stupid mafia trying to ignore me!!!
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nemY I would suggest using Judge's argument! It has proven not to work for mikey!
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2 enemies down! two enemy down! dienemy down!
DIENEMY!!!
DIENEMY!!!
DIENEMY!!!
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As much as I'd like to share in your enthusiasm and just kill nemY instead tonight... if you checked him and he came out red, then nemY cannot be the godfather.
We've already established Mikeymoo was mafia. If nemY is mafia as well, then they clearly chose the third and final mafia member to be the godfather. How would they choose? Well, they'd probably choose the person who would be under most scrutiny- a kind of player DTs are more likely to check in any given game. By now, you can probably tell I'm talking about Ace. Much better to shield him from RCs than another mafia member, usually.
So, I could be wrong, but I'm still going to kill Ace tonight. It saves me the hassle of having to convince people to kill him democratically, which will be far easier to do with nemY on Day 3. Even if Chezinu ends up being the detective to end them all, he still can't figure out who the godfather is through a RC, and this night, I'm betting on Ace.
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On an unrelated note: These are the voting tallies for Day 2 lynching:
+ Show Spoiler +
Chezinu: (3)
Ace
vx70GTOJudgexv
mikeymoo
mikeymoo: (6)
RebirthOfLeGend
Chezinu
Scamp
Vivi57
Zato-1
L
vx70GTOJudgexv: (1)
nemY
Note how the only people who don't vote for mikeymoo are Ace, mikeymoo, nemY and Judge. Judge I can sort of understand given how pissed off he was at Chezinu for screwing up his plan. Same for mikeymoo, usually people won't vote to lynch themselves. nemY and Ace look suspicious, again; the argument to lynch mikeymoo first and Chez second (assuming mikeymoo didn't turn out red) was sound, from the Town's point of view.
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I'm going to try to respond to Chezinu's claims in a succinct and logical manner and then I'm not going to respond to any of what he says because frankly... it's bullshit.
1.)
Original Message:
it was from a previous mafia game in which i role claimed DT and pretty much fucked the town over for the rest of the game. I was a legitimate DT, but in doing what I did, I basically caused a shit ton of chaos and mayhem which far benefited the mafia over the town... this is why i'm in favor of lynching Judge and against anyone ever publicly role claiming this early in the game...
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
looking at your profile and was like:
"I'm the detective"
Start above here^^
You see nemY's answer? Yeah, thats what I thought as you can see he is evil!!!
He asked me why my profile pic is what it is. If you haven't seen it yet click here: + Show Spoiler +
I'm pretty sure most of you know it's from a previous mafia game in which RC'd DT at the start of the game and essentially fucked up the game. The only reason the town actually won was because the mafia alt+QQ'd the game. Hence why I am now 100% against ANYONE role claiming (especially blues). DT, Medic, Vigi, Vet, whatever the role is, it starts a shit ton of crap that once started, is difficult to calm down! Makes sense? That's why I'm all for lynching Judge, we all knew he WASN'T the medic after he RC'd, yet we've allowed him to live so that he can carry on what... some possibly flawed plan?
2.)From: nemY [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: so I was like
Date: 1/7/10 09:34
I'm the AntiChrist in this one. Quit fishing for roles buddy.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
So are you the medic?
and here I like to spread info:
Me: Original Message:
Judge, Malongo, or L?
Mikey: I'm thinking judge, but I'm still very on-the-fence and generally confused. My problem with voting Malongo is that he's more likely to be innocent than judge, imo, and starting a late train on L is going to prove difficult, given time constraints.
What are your thoughts?
~mikey
There is nothing incriminating at all in this post. You are fishing for my role, I'm not telling you shit and I'm still not telling you shit about what my true role is. You try to buy my acceptance by offering up some bullshit info from mikeymoo. I ignored it (as I often have a habit of doing with your PMs) because I doubt it's integrity.
3.) Nice try buddy, but this PM is incriminating towards YOU not me.
I guess I should share more pm's that I had with nemY!
To: nemY [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Just need a little faith
Date: 1/9/10 07:21
You are really close to figuring me out. But I know 100% that mikey is mafia. *hint hint*
He didn't even respond to me!! Reminds me of mikey... Stupid mafia trying to ignore me!!!
You sent me this PM after I blasted you for being an idiot for R/Cing DT. Here's the post I'm talking about:
On January 09 2010 07:11 nemY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 13:25 Chezinu wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches made for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.
I AM A DECTECTIVE.
Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start the second day.
Other detectives (if you exist), stay in hiding.
Why?
BLIND FAITH. It is needed. For once trust somebody who you think is crazy for once. What if I really am the detective? What if I found out mikeymoo is mafia? Let me think....
Why else would one abandon the brown? I have seen the light! Never before have this happen! Crazy things happen in incog's world! Last time I visited this world my father Ace betrayed me! This is not a world for brown but of blue! Listen to my words! I truly am the Detective! Mikeyoo is mafia!!!
I could not think of any reasonable way to tell you guess im blue. Just look at the statistics. I have never been blue before not once. You think I would ever abandon the brown for any other reason?
So I call upon the GREAT LACES to help me lead this town to lynch mikeymoo! This move is so unbelievably dumb on every aspect of the game that I feel forced to disregard it all-together. If you really are the DT why would you do this? SACRIFICING YOURSELF FOR ONE MAFIA IS NOT A JUST CAUSE ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOESN'T ALTER THE KP. No rather I think you think you're so sure mikeymoo is mafia that you're willing to lie to convince the town. Why you're so sure of mikeymoo being mafia? I don't know the exact reason but I know you're not a dt, BECAUSE A DT WOULD NEVER GIVE THEMSELVES UP UNLESS THEY'RE SURE THEY HAVE PROTECTION.
Read that last part again. I blast Chez on how I don't think he's DT and he sends me a PM saying essentially saying that I'm right and that is mikey is mafia. We all know he had it out for mikey before the night even ended, then he conveniently "role checks" and mikey comes up mafia which he uses in an attempt to gain the town's trust. Now he's after me and posting PMs completely out of context. If that isn't mafiaish, then I don't know what is. I feel like I should still be voting for Judge (because I doubt the validity to his statements although my doubts are fading), but your shit reeks oh so much more than his. Provided I survive the night (which I'm sure you've guaranteed) I'm voting to lynch you ASAP.
I eagerly await ignoring your wave of 1-2 line posts saying essentially nothing.
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On January 11 2010 09:17 Zato-1 wrote:On an unrelated note: These are the voting tallies for Day 2 lynching: + Show Spoiler +
Chezinu: (3)
Ace
vx70GTOJudgexv
mikeymoo
mikeymoo: (6)
RebirthOfLeGend
Chezinu
Scamp
Vivi57
Zato-1
L
vx70GTOJudgexv: (1)
nemY
Note how the only people who don't vote for mikeymoo are Ace, mikeymoo, nemY and Judge. Judge I can sort of understand given how pissed off he was at Chezinu for screwing up his plan. Same for mikeymoo, usually people won't vote to lynch themselves. nemY and Ace look suspicious, again; the argument to lynch mikeymoo first and Chez second (assuming mikeymoo didn't turn out red) was sound, from the Town's point of view.
Incriminating somewhat. It would be expected that at least one of the mafia would vote for mikeymoo to stay under the radar. I'm not saying you're wrong (although yeah I kinda am since you're incriminating ME), I'm merely countering your statement.
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You don't get.... The pm's mean nothing compared to my rolecheck against you! Rolecheck says your an evil evil mafia player! well, not the evil part...It's just that your pm stated you were the bad guy..
I guess I'll just wait... nemY has a higher chance of dieing tonight than me. You know my weakness and are using it against me. For I do not fear the mafia but the TOWN! I'm tried of writing essentially nothing as well. For that purpose is now fading. I'm allowed to die now.
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I agree with zato's move
vig ace tonight, lynch nemy tomorrow. Getting a vote for ace will be much harder than a vote for nemy
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Let's see. If the mafia are a team of NemY, Ace, and Mikey that means they all dogpiled on Judge day 1 and they also piled on Chez day 2. Well NemY was kind of off on his own day 2 but his vote wouldn't have made a difference and it wasn't on Mikey.
This just reeks of terrible mafia play, and somehow it's not right.
But hey, we'll see more soon.
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On January 11 2010 10:24 Scamp wrote:
Let's see. If the mafia are a team of NemY, Ace, and Mikey that means they all dogpiled on Judge day 1 and they also piled on Chez day 2. Well NemY was kind of off on his own day 2 but his vote wouldn't have made a difference and it wasn't on Mikey.
This just reeks of terrible mafia play, and somehow it's not right.
But hey, we'll see more soon.
Do you think Scamp, nemY, and Mikeymoo would be a better combination?
or
would L, Zato-1, Vivi57, or Judge be a better GF?
L: We will skip him for now. He is kinda of crazy like me but isn't retarded and therefore can only catch the logical ones.
Zato-1:I don't know him that well. He doesn't know me either. He thinks I'm a noob along with Vivi57.
Vivi57: ignores me in pm's like the other mafia. First one to vote mikeymoo. Loves the town trust.
Judge: You be the Judge.
now me: I am either like Batman or the Joker. Batman punishes bad guys without the town's permission. The Joker he sometimes kill bad guys when they don't do things his way. He does things for laughs a lot.... oh uh this isn't looking good for me. OK, Chezinu is not the Joker! He isn't batman either! Is he a question mark...no that is an evil guy! I am hmmm.... Iron man? no.... I got it!!! I am Chezinu!!!
Mafia fear my posts of nothingness!!!
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On January 11 2010 06:05 Zato-1 wrote:Okay, so. Tonight, I'm hitting Ace. Why? Here's a list of Ace's posts from the last mafia game I played, in which he was mafia: + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [1] +On August 20 2009 10:54 Ace wrote:
o shit wtf 5 hours passed fast On August 20 2009 10:58 Ace wrote:
can someone update me on everything that happened? I skimmed and saw people suggesting to lynch me? On August 20 2009 11:03 Ace wrote:
ok so Sato snitched on himself lulz
Medics aren't informed of prots? :/ That sucks.
Vigi shouldn't hit anyone until they are solid the person is red. On August 20 2009 11:10 Ace wrote:
:/
Well enough about me, what are we doing right now? On August 20 2009 11:23 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:21 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
zato was the one that brought up Satoux That pretty much ups Zeto's innocence. If he was really anti-town I doubt he'd want to cast a spotlight on his own Mafia ally. Especially in a game this small. Other than this there aren't even any patterns yet are there? Day 1 votes don't seem too telling. On August 20 2009 11:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:24 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
on the other hand both Foolishness and Midori accused Chezinu yesterday Why would we kill him then if we were mafia? Why not? Just because you accused someone doesn't hold weight. It would be one thing if you accused Chezinu and the town rallied behind you but you didn't have time to lynch. Then it would have been dumb to kill him. However that didn't happen. You accused him, but no one really went with it. By killing Chezinu you lose nothing since you didn't have any support in the first place. On August 20 2009 11:33 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:30 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:28 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:24 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
on the other hand both Foolishness and Midori accused Chezinu yesterday Why would we kill him then if we were mafia? Why not? Just because you accused someone doesn't hold weight. It would be one thing if you accused Chezinu and the town rallied behind you but you didn't have time to lynch. Then it would have been dumb to kill him. However that didn't happen. You accused him, but no one really went with it. By killing Chezinu you lose nothing since you didn't have any support in the first place. It would seem rather out of place, more than anything. I don't particularly think Chezinu was a good hit, unless there was reason to think he was blue. Chezinu drew a lot of attention to himself, he seemed more beneficial to the mafia alive than dead. I understand what you're saying but it just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Chezinu seemed normal :/ Either way I guess the good news is no one super valuable has been killed yet (lol sorry Chez) On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. On August 20 2009 11:39 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:37 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. Do you have a better candidate? Outside of me since I can't really vote for myself well between you, Qatol and Pyrr something isn't right 1.) You voted for Inf 2.) Qatol votes for Inf and THEN posts a reason for it 3.) Pyrr votes for inf and also posts a reason Seems odd doesn't it? Especially since you're vote came in first before any reasonings. On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:42 Qatol wrote:On August 20 2009 11:39 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:37 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:36 Ace wrote:
hold on a sec. Three of you voted for Inf out of no where with barely any reasoning except that he's throwing names out. That happens every mafia game. And Foolishness voted for Inf out of no where first with no reasoning. Do you have a better candidate? Outside of me since I can't really vote for myself well between you, Qatol and Pyrr something isn't right 1.) You voted for Inf 2.) Qatol votes for Inf and THEN posts a reason for it 3.) Pyrr votes for inf and also posts a reason Seems odd doesn't it? Especially since you're vote came in first before any reasonings. You're really worried that I voted before posting my reasoning? Maybe I voted while figuring out exactly what to write because it's a speed game? no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? On August 20 2009 11:56 Ace wrote:
also Midori too, I didn't even realize he voted. On August 20 2009 12:02 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 11:57 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? As a matter of fact, I would. I can defend myself by saying that my behavior against infundibulum has been consistent with the previous days, as I have previously said. infundibulum did a great job roleclaiming to the town too, especially telling Qatol at the last minute. To give my reasonings again, I have been moving around votes all game to get discussion going. I started the lynch on Satoux, which helps proves my innocence. Pyrry has laid out some important information pertaining to this as well. I can understand if you want to think Pyrry and I as the two remaining mafia, as that would make sense, but that's simply not the case. I cannot speak on behalf of other people though. Qatol's posts in the thread annoy me to death, Pyrry is unusually quiet (of course without clues he's nearly useless). The Sato thing is over and done with but it does look good for you. I'm just saying you can't go around starting bandwagons, and when they turn out wrong act like it's just an oops moment. One of you guys has to pay. @Midori: Ok be suspicious of me but I didnt get a medic killed did I. On August 20 2009 12:06 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On August 20 2009 11:53 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 11:49 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 11:47 Ace wrote:
no, that was more for Foolishness. As in 2 of you had reasons, he didn't. And he voted first of all 3 of you. Right now our vote is practically a crapshoot. You have yet to accuse/do anything, so I'm pretty sure we're all in the same boat here. It's better to vote for someone to get discussion going. I have been changing votes all game, it fits with what I'm trying to do here. actually no, I've been watching. I always try to play in a way that avoids innocent deaths. You guys bandwagoned Inf to death. Switching around votes randomly just makes it easier for Mafia to bandwagon. Right now you, Qatol, Pyrr, and Zato are all suspects. Wouldn't you agree? I can understand your suspicion of foolish, qatol, and myself at this point but why Zato, if I may ask? He changed his vote a lot but that last minute switch from me to infun wouldn't seem like something a mafia would do since infun looked dead already and a mafia would have known infun was innocent. Which would actually be a good Mafia defense don't you think? "I can't be Mafia, my vote didn't even change anything!" On August 20 2009 12:12 Ace wrote:Qatol if Infundibulum was a Medic how could he safely make that claim to you? He'd never know your role On August 20 2009 12:18 Ace wrote:
@Vivi: How has he sacrificed his own? You guys all said Sato pretty much told on himself so how is that relevant? On August 20 2009 12:21 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:19 Zato-1 wrote:
Ace, you haven't been very active this game. Why is that? Your kidding right? You mean I haven't just started accusing everyone of being mafia all willy nilly is more like it. I've only focused on the mistakes that I've seen this game and the fact that some of you except Foolishness won't even embrace is it is suspicious. Pyrr had a so-so defense. But you and Qatol have pretty much ignored me. On August 20 2009 12:22 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:20 Zato-1 wrote:
By 'inactive', I mean unhelpful in finding mafia. @Ace we've only found 1, what do you want me to do magically pull one out my hat? On August 20 2009 12:26 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:23 Foolishness wrote:On August 20 2009 12:21 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 12:19 Zato-1 wrote:
Ace, you haven't been very active this game. Why is that? Your kidding right? You mean I haven't just started accusing everyone of being mafia all willy nilly is more like it. I've only focused on the mistakes that I've seen this game and the fact that some of you except Foolishness won't even embrace is it is suspicious. Pyrr had a so-so defense. But you and Qatol have pretty much ignored me. I convinced Zato to vote for infundibulum at the last minute. I do not believe we should be looking at Zato, but rather other people. just because you did that doesn't mean he's town aligned. On August 20 2009 12:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:25 Foolishness wrote:
Okay this needs to come out right now.
I am the detective. I have checked both Qatol and Pyrry, and both have turned up green. This should help explain why things happened the way they did. Ok Foolishness, you see the wagon right? Seriously man. Just look at the voting thread. On August 20 2009 12:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:30 Qatol wrote:On August 20 2009 12:28 Ace wrote:On August 20 2009 12:25 Foolishness wrote:
Okay this needs to come out right now.
I am the detective. I have checked both Qatol and Pyrry, and both have turned up green. This should help explain why things happened the way they did. Ok Foolishness, you see the wagon right? Seriously man. Just look at the voting thread. Wagon's a bit big for the remaining of mafia, don't you think? 2 mafia left 3 people claiming to be working together being coordinated by rolechecks. So the conclusion is mafia? Yea because it's the SAME people that got it wrong the first time. You mean to tell me you guys shouldn't be looking at your little group for the answers as to where the suspicions should go? On August 20 2009 12:32 Ace wrote:
and look at the shit you did now On August 20 2009 12:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 12:34 Zato-1 wrote:
If we have a Vigi... you need to hit Foolishness. He is most definitely mafia. .... You can easily categorize all of his posts in two categories: Chaff: He talks but essentially says nothing. Posts # 1 through 6, 8, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, 19 and 20 are of this kind. Guilt Trips: Since he's basically committed to nothing all game, he weighs down on those who have done something whenever they were wrong. Posts #7, 11, 13, 17, 18, 21, 22 and 23 are of this kind. Ace's strategy was to sit back, feign activity, and pounce on Town members whenever they made a mistake. Now, take a look at Ace's posts in the current game: + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [1] +On January 05 2010 21:24 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2010 15:39 L wrote:
Dear morans.
There's nearly nothing to talk about on the first day if no one talks, and we have no mayoral business to vote for.
Because of this, and because I like making people post stupid garbage, I propose we go round table and each say who we want to off day one.
So far, I've done around 5 minutes of thinking and I'm going to sleep directly after I type this post, so this won't be pretty or eloquent, but here's what I'm thinking so far.
1. RebirthOfLeGend
2. Ace
3. L
4. vx70GTOJudgexv
5. Scamp
6. Zato-1
7. Chezinu
8. nemY
9. HeavOnEarth
10. Vivi57
11. ketomai
12. Mikeymoo
13. Malongo
2) I hate vivi. RoL's dumb. Chezinu is a gigantic waste of a player, regardless of which side he's on, and nemy hasn't played in a while, and played somewhat subpar last game we were in due to inactivity. Granted that these are all easy "dumb" targets, I'll be extra risk and not pick any of them to see how people react.
%) Alternate plan is to kill people who we know are fucking useless and who won't 'fuck up' because they're so fucking inactive. If that's the case, i'd hit nemY first. Not that I hate the guy or anything, but there's some weird fucking 'stupid' sympathy which keeps vivi alive when I try to get him killed and I'm kinda hoping Chezinu doesn't do his standard stupid shit. If he does, I'm pretty sure we're going to have to start killing him day 1-2 in every game he joins until he stops being a moron. I agree that killing useless players is always a sound strategy when there isn't a better idea. Of course with the what, 15 or so mafia games played so far that list isn't exactly hard to populate at the moment: 1.) vivi57 2.) nemy 3.) RebirthofLegend And if any of you remember last game with the huge fuck ups of 3 players in particular the prime candidate for most detrimental to the town is RoL. He doesn't read and is a sheep. He's easily influenced and lets his emotions get to him and rarely if ever helps the town. Last game he didn't even realize he was being manipulated until the very end. Vivi57 and nemy, well you guys already know how terrible both of them are. It's just that RoL is far worse than either of them. On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote:
I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics?
This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format. On January 06 2010 10:43 Ace wrote:
First of all one thing I need to make clear: I've seen medics openly claim Day 1 before in similar formats and almost every single time they end in disaster and the town loses. Now before I go into specifics of why, Judge I know you've played on Mafiascum. Assuming they are pretty good over there you've probably seen a lot of possibilities for broken cop/medic claims that is doable in this game. That's the ONLY thing that makes me even remotely think you can be a legit medic. If that wasn't possible I'd just call for your lynch. The reasoning that Mafia wouldn't fake claim a medic because it offers little gain is moot - everyone would come to the same reasoning you just did (logically) and agree the medic is obviously real because no mafia would sac himself.
Which is wrong. Mafia KP is always 1. If we all come to that logical conclusion we in fact now have a Mafia who gained something for nothing because everyone thinks it's so stupid why would they do it.
Now the other reason Medic role claims end in disaster is that if you're lying the real medic doesn't know if you're a Vet false claiming or a Mafia in disguise. Regardless they won't talk to you, the cop can't do anything once he RCs you if you aren't a Medic and you will most certainly be dead soon. I think Scamp said it pretty well earlier: This is a guessing game, but now it's no longer a blind guessing game from the Mafia side but a potential shot of information they shouldn't have this early.
If you're gambit fails and you are really the medic and you die tonight, the game is going to be ridiculously hard for the town. You've got experience. You SHOULD know that with you not being able to be confirmed through medic protections we have no incentive to believe you at all. I'm inclined to say you're move is very anti-town at the moment. On January 06 2010 10:46 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2010 08:46 Zato-1 wrote:
Actually, I kind of disagree with many regarding Judge's claim. One of the mafia's most powerful weapons is deception; if they can pass the ball along to one another in order to point the finger at townies as mafia suspects and then shrug responsibility off somehow, the flow of the game is favorable to them. If the Town members assume strong leading roles and set the pace of the game, it's advantageous to us. Overall, I agree with Judge's move. I find it likely that he's not, in fact, mafia. I agree, except how do you know they are town? :/ Also remember we've seen plenty of times where Townies themselves contributed to the deception and cluster fuck of the game (see RoL in any game he plays). On January 07 2010 04:15 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 00:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 07 2010 00:45 Zato-1 wrote:
Get a hold of yourself, man. Trying to vindicate your actions in a previous game, fighting back at random insults and posting 6 times consecutively while sounding really passionate at the same time just makes it look like you're lashing out. Not conducive to a smart, organized Town at all. So, yeah- less talk-back and discussing other games, more discussing what we should be doing this game please. Read more please, 90% of what I wrote was about this game and Judge's actions. The other 10% was about talking about past games. I just simply said that Ace can't continue being a dick because hes mad I fucked him over when I was a VI like 2 years ago. This grudge shit is annoying and not productive. Ace assumes he knows everything about everything when in reality most people in my situation would of done the same shit most likely including himself. Can we please just focus on Judge? and i was posting as I was reading and knowing that a lot of people just skip text blocks I repeated a few things as I was reading. I actually forgot about the VI thing. You really just sucked last game ^_^ On January 07 2010 04:25 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 01:53 Zato-1 wrote:On January 06 2010 09:18 Malongo wrote:
-I really dont see the point in RoLs post and i dont like the fact that scamp came up just 10 minutes later to support his own defence. How did RoL knew scamp wasnt inactive? Why is RoL too lazy to read tonight but has his time to half defend scamp? Maybe this is just a coincidence but since we are lynching almost on blind i like RoL. At least we can autofire at scamp if RoL flips red.
-For Judges claim its really not that important its not like he was a primary target for the town to lynch and if he is town alligned he can keep mafia guessing. Its something like claiming Im a cat.
- Ls posting seem almost smart so im inclined to tell judge and L are town/side.
I'm grasping here, but this is the only post so far that hints at someone being mafia. This someone being its author, Malongo. Why? First paragraph, he supports lynching RoL just because 'if he flips red, Scamp is also mafia'. I see no good reason to suspect RoL is mafia, and I don't see this chummy mafioso friendship between RoL and Scamp. In essence, his argument is, "I think if we kill RoL and he flips red, we'll get two birds in one stone! If we kill him and he's Townie, well then, too bad". How convenient does that sound if you're actually Mafia and you know RoL is not on your side? Third paragraph, he's saying L and Judge are trustworthy, and putting himself by their sides. He's basically creating two small groups; "Good Guys" which includes L, Judge and himself (He might even know L and Judge to be Townies; he can just kill them off at night and vindicate his good game sense, saying "I told you so!"), and "Bad Guys", which right now is just RoL, the person he wants to kill. I am in no way certain Malongo is mafia, but it does look like mafia mentality to me. Malongo, you've earned my vote. I understand what you're trying to do it but it's not concrete enough. Judge is far more suspicious than Malongo posting about how he randomly thinks RoL is scummy. On January 07 2010 04:35 Ace wrote:
BTW - Judge is mafia, calling it now. On January 07 2010 05:55 Ace wrote:
Well I'm going to keep my vote on him because my standard policy for standard games still applies here: lynch Day 1 roleclaimers unless they have some serious proof or compelling argument.
Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
So because he MIGHT be a blue we shouldn't lynch him? That argument happens every game and I'm pretty sure we can all agree it's a useless platform to go on.
I said at the end of last mini mafia that anyone role claiming medic is destined to die. The Medic role generally wants to avoid getting hit even if he can protect himself. However he/she does it is whatever, but trying to attract fire would be unwise. Hence, Judge definitely is NOT a medic. No one has ever gotten a free pass for role claiming on Day 1 and those were almost always Detective claims. So why are we letting a Medic claim go? On January 07 2010 06:25 Ace wrote:
what exceptional information? I really want to know this. On January 07 2010 06:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 06:24 Vivi57 wrote:
I really hate the idea of lynching judge now. If he's gf, we get him now and save a little potential damage.
If he's medic/vet, we just massively fucked up.
Basically, by not wanting to wait to lynch judge, you're saying that you think he could completely fuck us over and that you're not good enough to poke holes in his plan and see him as the gf. Collectively, we *are* that good so there's really no point in lynching him now.
I actually don't even care what his plan is. The fact that he has a plan and hasn't said a word about it speaks volumes. This is an 11 player game - what plan does he really have that's so fragile but powerful that it needs to be stated on Day 2 instead of Day 1? How does that help the town? Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. I'm not going through this "he might be blue" shit again. I've said in countless games I really don't give a shit about not lynching someone solely because they might have a power role. If you make a big gamble and you make a mistake you deserve to be at the center of the lynch discussion. On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. On January 07 2010 07:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 07:11 L wrote:Look at what Judge has just done.
Hey I'm a Medic!
this can't be proven or disproved by anyone
I have a plan, trust me!
why are we putting blind faith in him?
Who's putting blind faith in him? Its one thing to trust someone's telling us the truth, its completely another to kill him. If he's got a plan, he's on the hook to make it look good. If he does have a plan there isn't any reason to wait an entire Day to tell us. This is really one of the big signs painting him as Mafia to me. There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. This is the same thing we go through every game where for some reason people assume someone must be telling the truth IF they have a plan. Show nested quote +Secondly Townies shouldn't lie. Which means that if Judge is town he HAS TO BE A MEDIC. But in my last post I outlined that there is no possible way Judge can be a medic. Which means HE IS LYING. Show nested quote +
There are plenty of townies who've lied for great, great profit in our games; its generally a fantastic idea for them to do so if their deception doesn't fuck the town over in any way. A vet would NEVER want to say "hey fuckers, I'm a vet", because the entire idea behind his role is to attract some rape to his face. A plain green townie should always be throwing off blue vibes so that mafia hit him over someone proper.
When? In most of our games townies that lied have led to great disasters. Townies shouldn't be trying to lie to deceive anyone because hey - thats exactly what the Mafia are doing! And using your last sentences if Judge is a Medic then WHY WOULD HE BE WANTING TO GET HIT. Because he isn't a Medic. Show nested quote +
So you can't just make a "if he's medic, he wouldn't have done this" play. See, the way I see it is this; Last game you claimed DT, and I got you killed for it. Its clear that blues DO claim, and by our general series of day 1 claims, typically many do. You, nemY and quite a few others have balls'd up and gone for it. So why would you apply this rule to him now, yet not apply it to yourself during the last game?
I mean, shit. Can't have it both ways.
Did the last game have this rule set? I don't think so. When I claimed DT last game I was essentially invulnerable except for the Mafia having the option of switching BGs. This game has no Mayor/Pardoners so that's out of the window. There is nothing to be gained from anyone claiming to be a Medic on Day 1. Ever. Show nested quote +
Either way, judge is not the best risk/reward kill today by a longshot. Chances are he's medic/green/vet, nearly nil chance he's plain red, DT or vig, and I've never seen a godfather claim nearly immediately after the start of day 1, so this would be the ballsiest play I've ever seen as GF.
Chances are he's Vet or Mafia. That's it. Doesn't even matter if he's plain red or GF. If he's red and he gets checked by the DT that means by Day 2 the DT is immediately outed in a game where the Mafia KP doesn't change based on Judge dying. As for any other candidates no one else is even near as suspicious as Judge. Somehow Malongo is being talked about based on 1 post he threw out there when Judge has several and SHOULD be talked about even more. Where the hell is everyone else playing this game? On January 07 2010 07:37 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 07:25 Zato-1 wrote:On January 07 2010 07:07 Ace wrote:
Zato that would be a really odd mistake wouldn't it? Judge has experience playing Mafia on this site and another. If he never made that post I would have been fine with a no lynch for today. A mistake as far as you're concerned is what I meant. Call it 'he did something stupid' or however you like- my point is, lynching Judge for doing something you'd rather he hadn't done seems overkill, unless you're really serious about deterring people from day 1 roleclaiming. Lynching people should predominantly be our way to deal with mafia, rather than our way of dealing with people who play in a way you don't like. If you still want to lynch him because you think he's mafia, fine. But really, lynching him for any other reason is just dumb. no I'm lynching him because I think he is Mafia. I was using the way he was playing as an argument for why I think he indeed is Mafia ^_^ And yes I'm strongly opposed to Day 1 role claims in most formats. On January 07 2010 08:59 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 08:34 L wrote:There is no reason to hold back. Secondly we do not know if he's telling the truth because we can't confirm it. 1) There's a rather large reason. 2) We will be able to find out if he is. Ace, feel free to examine what's going on objectively, because it makes things rather easy to sort out. Did the last game have this rule set? Last game's ruleset made it even more retarded to try to do what you did. Don't see how you're helping your case here; Clear example of pot and kettle. Either way, even if this was a 'mistake' from a medic's point of view, it would most certainly be a double mistake from a godfather's point of view; Again, there are ZERO instances of godfathers claiming this early, and there ARE ways of confirming him as town or mafia. Nothing point to the fact that he should be killed tonight, unless you're scared that you won't be smart enough to sway the town away from his plan if its bad, right Ace? Normally you aren't so short sighted . Last game I could be invincible. What are you talking about? lol have you forgotten already? It doesn't matter if you think he's a GF. The point is no one claims medic on Day 1. It's seriously a dumb move. It's like 4 pooling on an island map. There is nothing to gain. And this hey let's wait and see his plan along with this I can't tell you guys what my plan is mentality is screaming Mafia. And to top it all off now we want to lynch Malongo based on nothing? lol right. You guys are making PERFECT sense here. Answer me on how we are going to confirm judge is a medic. On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. On January 07 2010 09:23 Ace wrote:
you must be a salesman in real life On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. On January 07 2010 09:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:43 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:17 Ace wrote:
Interesting. So Malongo who was fucking randomly plucked out of no where for doing nothing wrong is all of a sudden about to die?
Really smart guys. Just look at that wagon go. Well, you had ample time to make an argument for someone other than judge; I already stated why I think malongo is a fairly safe first day lynch; he's obviously not blue otherwise he'd be active and care a bit more about his impending death. I'd rather lynch someone else, but there's not enough time to get people to switch, especially with you trying to kill judge. Does him being blue even matter? He hasn't done anything suspicious at all. And I don't have an argument for anyone else. Seriously Judge is the only person that seems suspect to me. On January 07 2010 09:46 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 09:45 L wrote:On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.
Oh and argue with RoL too. I find it very odd that given that judge won't be killed that you aren't pressing to get RoL killed, and that RoL, who absolutely hates you, has been toddling around and towing your line. Sup with that, bro? why would I want RoL killed again? How is him echoing me even relevant? :/ On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.
The second part was sarcasm.
L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument. On January 07 2010 09:52 Ace wrote:
I can see just fine. Someone claims to be a Medic Day 1 and I'm supposed to just sit back and be like omg fine!
Right Judge. Right ^_^ On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@L: The only person I'd want to see die is Judge.
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. On January 07 2010 10:01 Ace wrote:
indeed L.
Except I didn't pick because neither of them seem more fishy to me than Judge.
On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. On January 07 2010 10:08 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 10:05 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 10:02 Ace wrote:On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent. I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense. I've done it more than once. I do it ALL THE TIME. If you want we can pause the discussion and make a poll. You can also PM everyone that has played past Mafia games. They'll all tell you I stop town bandwagons from killing innocents regardless of my role. Then you can't use it as a defense. And I don't use meta as a way to clear people, I use it as a way to crucify them if they play to a certain meta overall. Plus, the hole in your logic is "I do it all the time" which means you can still be scum. But you made it sound earlier that defending innocents is a Mafia trait when I just proved to you that it is not. Hence why I called you out on it. You can't say me defending Malongo makes one or both of us scummy. There is no hole in my logic because I already admitted I do it regardless of my role. On January 07 2010 10:14 Ace wrote:
thats nice Judge. But like I've said before you shouldn't be surprised I'm not going for fake Medic claims. On January 07 2010 10:22 Ace wrote:
L if you're concerned about RoL why isn't anyone else voting for him? (besides me of course) On January 07 2010 10:32 Ace wrote:
That voting thread sure is something else. On January 07 2010 10:48 Ace wrote:
I know L is laughing very hard right now On January 07 2010 11:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 11:34 L wrote:
Lol, so chezinu changed his vote because Ace promised that if he was mafia he would kill him a day later. stop grasping at straws. I haven't even spoken to Chezinu all game. On January 07 2010 12:48 Ace wrote:? are you serious? so you just flip flop voted multiple times, and now if Malongo dies and flips innocent you can say he had a chance to "save himself". lol interesting really. On January 07 2010 13:00 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 12:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Everyone fast lynch Chezinu XD seriously I would On January 07 2010 13:09 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:07 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
EBWOP because I'm just posting off the hilt atm.
@RoL - I'm making the assumption that there is a DT off of the constant nagging of people saying on this forum "There has to be a DT/Medic combo or else it's rape against Town."
For the record, DT/Medic is an overpowered combination in pretty much every open game if it isn't balanced out by multiple KP or a mafia roleblocker. DT can outright claim and have the medic stay in hiding and just protect him every night while he investigates while the mafia has to blindly try and snipe the medic. By then a slew of confirmed townies pop up and it's GG for mafia. We luck out in the fact that we generally use multiple KP or these games would be busted wide open by any competent two players. I said this a few pages back. DT/Medic is also somewhat busted by GF roles, but only somewhat. And the reason you need DT/Medic is because without both Mafia is just going to run wild killing everyone and people will be scared to post knowing they have no protection. On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. On January 07 2010 13:18 Ace wrote:
Not at all. More like the random out of the blue bandwagon that you guys put on Malongo was the wrong call. On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 07 2010 13:14 Ace wrote:Malongo: (5)
Zato-1
vx70GTOJudgexv
L
HeavOnEarth
Scamp
Oh boy. Somebody has some explaining to do. I'm much more inclined to believe mafia was off of this lynch, but that's my opinion right now. I feel that mafia sit back and let this one happen. I don't. 5 out of 12 possible votes and not one of them Mafia? I highly doubt it. Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects: Judge, obviously ^_^ Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle On January 07 2010 13:37 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2010 13:32 Scamp wrote:On January 07 2010 13:25 Ace wrote:
Either way I'm going to start going back through this whole debacle. But right now my top suspects:
Judge, obviously ^_^
Scamp and Chezinu because of the last minute voting and flip flopping
Zato-1 because he was the one who proposed lynching Malongo in the midst of the Judge debacle Yes, I would be very surprised if I wasn't heavily interrogated day 2 for my actions at the end of day one. I would like to know, however, your opinions of my decision to try to avoid a no-lynch. No one commented on this. I think that a no-lynch is worse than any lynch day one. I'd actually rather we have had a no lynch. I was already against the Malongo band wagon from jump and since he didn't really do much his death wasn't going to reveal anything major. Well now that he's dead everyone that voted for him is rightfully going to be questioned. On January 08 2010 09:40 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 04:04 L wrote:
I like how the two players I specifically prodded into switching votes, so that we wouldn't end up killing malongo are now raging about the fact that we killed malongo rather than a poorer player.
Can't have it both ways, champ. I like how a long time before that I said killing malongo was a bandwagon move and we should have just killed Judge instead. It's ok though, if I survive tonight there's going to be hell on Day 2. On January 08 2010 10:14 Ace wrote:
The bandwagon at Judge was very justified: A guy claiming medic on day with a "wait and let me live" approach vs a guy who got one of his posts randomly plucked out of no where and accused.
Yes, the votes against Judge were so unjustified. Either way Day 2 someone is going to have to answer some tough questions. On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. On January 08 2010 12:04 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 11:44 Zato-1 wrote:On January 08 2010 11:31 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 11:22 L wrote:On January 08 2010 10:28 Ace wrote:On January 08 2010 10:22 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Why do you guys keep mentioning me like I was even close to a lynch candidate?
Malongo accused me so we must either lynch me or him?
I don't remember ever seeing that logic before. I didn't want to lynch you. L said because you're a bad player you should be lynched. I said because Judge was lying and because he made a bad play he should be lynched. They both kept their votes on Malongo. L said I should switch my votes to you and I flat out told him that wasn't going to happen. The game I claimed DT L said it was a terrible play. Judge claims Medic Day 1 and L says no, no way a Mafia would do that. Seriously L, why the double standard? Because your 'plan' was to get everyone to claim to you nearly immediately, get all of the bodyguard information, ignore the currently in place town plan for confirming DT sanity, and then proceed. Judge has made no such requests besides 'don't kill me tonight'. See the difference? What town plan? You mean the one after I died that everyone conveniently decided not to follow? There wasn't a town plan unless you mean the stupidity you tried to sell the town on. And I didn't want everyone to claim to me. I asked for BG information which when I died made sense. Judge's request of don't kill him shouldn't be held in higher regards than anyone else begging not to die (see Malongo). So you're wrong on what I did last game and you still haven't even given good reasoning as to why Judge should have been blindly trusted in the first place. But it's ok, all this pales in comparison to what Zato-1 is going to go through. All seven levels of hell, because I didn't follow your plan blindly like a good little puppet? I'm sorry Ace, that course of action only works for me if I'm on the same team as you. And I'm not quite certain you're Town-aligned this game. But hey, as long as you attack me with well-constructed arguments (unlike your "I don't trust Judge, ergo autolynch"), I'll be happy to defend myself. It would be a waste to lynch me when there's actual mafia out there, especially if yet more leadership were to fall to you. more leadership? lol nice I didn't even know I was a leader yet. The 5 of you that voted malongo off are all top suspects. Especially when ya know, you were the one who started the bs bandwagon and the others hopped on to it with lame excuses. On January 08 2010 20:51 Ace wrote:
this is all interesting. I guess tomorrow I'll have to make a long post about Zato-1, Judge, MM and Chezinu.
However at this point Chez I'm pretty sure you know you're like, almost guaranteed a lynch (seriously after seeing judge RC the first day and take shit, you'd have to AT LEAST be able to find a way to convince people). Also the other reason I don't really believe you is because on the Day 1 vote you flip flopped so many times that you came off as Mafia. Seriously, why would you flip flop if you wanted to save Malongo or Judge? Just abstain if that's the case.
And yea I read your PM Chezinu, but I'm not helping you get MikeyMoo killed unless you really flip DT. Either way it's really funny how every single time someone is "on the radar" ANOTHER person comes from left field with some new info and knocks shit out of whack.
After the Chezinu/MM debacle is cleared up we'll move on to past transgressions. On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote:
WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!?
On January 08 2010 22:04 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 21:41 Zato-1 wrote:On January 08 2010 21:21 Ace wrote:
WHY DID YOU ROLECLAIM!?
Because of all these accusations that are running around Town. You know, these people vote, too- I hate dealing behind closed doors and keeping everyone in the dark, and my posted PMs would only make people more restless unless I gave them closure about whether I am a Vigilante or not. So, it's all out in the open now. I was kind of expecting you'd be outraged at me and maybe push for my lynching today, but I just don't see a winning plan in what you're doing, Ace. At least, not for the Town. Yea I was (still am) outraged at you. But there was no need to role claim. I mean seriously, is everyone going to roleclaim now when we have a GF in the game? Come on man, you just saw Chez and his nonsense. I don't even think you would have gotten put on the chopping block today since chez just pulled that stunt and that path gives us a faster way to finding Mafia. On January 08 2010 22:06 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 21:42 Chezinu wrote:
I still shocked that Ace can't see that I'm blue.. how many times do I have to tell you if you didn't pull that stupid voting stunt on Day 1 I would have been more inclined to believe you? You said you didn't want to kill Judge or Malongo, told them to save themselves yet kept your vote flip flopping instead of simply abstaining. If you saw someone do that do you honestly think you'd believe they were legit? On January 09 2010 05:07 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 04:39 Scamp wrote:
As far as roleclaiming goes, I don't see the problem with someone claiming Vig.
1) It's easy as hell to confirm.
2) No GF is going to choose Vig as his cover.
3) As long as the Vig uses his power the night after he claims, there really isn't any downside to the town.
The only thing it affects as far as I can tell is that mafia are going to be more careful this day to avoid being the target. Vigi isn't exactly easy to confirm, check the rules ^_^ But either way it only looks bad because Chezinu DT claimed first. No point in mass roleclaims on the Second Day of the game when there isn't even anything to panic about. On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. On January 09 2010 14:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 14:33 Chezinu wrote:On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. Ace, you need to be more active! You seem so lost this game.. I'm active enough? Seriously though I've been in meetings and shit. And tomorrow from 12-9 ET (cringe) I'll be tutoring kids. Hopefully they let me use the internet. On January 09 2010 14:40 Ace wrote:
You've told me I'm Mafia about 7 times already. But you can keep screaming it for your own pleasure ^_^ On January 09 2010 15:53 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 15:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 09 2010 14:30 Ace wrote:
Because Judge can't be confirmed. They've been giving us this runaround for 2 days and get upset when we ask for it and we're the ones being labeled as irrational.
I'll try and make a post before I get out of here tonight, but Chez should definitely be lynched first unless we all come to the consensus MM is definitely scum. At this point it's one guy's word against the other and Chez's play before he claimed was scummy. And like I said before if he didn't do that I would have believed him.
As for Judge being town I still don't believe that. Zato-1 on the other hand I do believe. I would go with what you said except for one thing. I believe killing mikeymoo gives us a better vigi candidate. While if we lynch Chezinu we only learn to either A. Vigi MM or B. Vigi someone else? If we kill MM first and hes not mafia then we know killing chez gives us scum, if MM is mafia then we should hit either L or Judge. Judge posts how MM probably is mafia but we should kill Chezinu because its some evil plan from mafia to infiltrate using Chezinu as decoy. Summary, Lynch Chez we either don't know who to vigi or we vigi MM. Lynch MM first we either kill Chez or Judge. Doesn't matter either way. Hey judge you can even confirm yourself this way too! If we have Zato hit you and you protect yourself his hit won't go through! Ok I understand why you're for killing MM...but how does that confirm Judge or even L? On January 09 2010 20:30 Ace wrote:
Oh...oh my god! Brilliant!
Surely the DT wouldn't think that the fact you purposely claimed Medic to draw an investigation to yourself and a GF isn't in the game you'd never even attempt to pull a stunt!
So basically like I said the instant you "came up with such a brilliant plan" you were just lying and wasting everyone's time. Yeah, that's a lot of posts alright. But, I've done some work and categorized them for you again: Chaff posts where he makes comments and maybe triest to set a mood or give an idea of his thoughts: Posts #1 through 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 35, 40, 41, 44, 45, 46, 47, 49, 50, 51 and 52. Posts with content: Posts #34, 36, 37, 38, 42 and 43 are essentially guilt trips; someone did a mistake, and he's calling them out on it. Posts #8, 13, 15, 18, 23 and 39 are posts in which he justifies attempts to lynch Judge for his day 1 roleclaiming. Now for the analysis: - There's nothing suspicious about making Chaff posts. Everyone makes them, some more than others. - Guilt Trip posts are of a different kind; when the Town makes a mistake, instead of trying to pick up the broken pieces and move on to the next course of action, Ace focuses on kicking the parties responsible for the mistake while they're down. This is done to lower Town morale and attempt to make Town players bitter, and recriminate themselves about who's responsible for what- while he sits back and watches. - His posts against Judge are probably just the fact that his dislike for day 1 roleclaiming happened to coincide with a daring Town initiative for getting organized. Two birds with one stone there (personal satisfaction & lynching a potential Town organizer), and he can just blame his zeal against day 1 roleclaiming for persecuting Judge. - What seems to be the connecting trend between Ace's posts? The only thing he's actually committed to, was persecuting Judge, and for a pretty bad reason at that ("I think he's lying about being a Medic, so he has to be mafia"). Other than that, he's content to sit back, make a lot of posts with little substance, and punish Town members when they make a wrong call. Does this seem like a game-winning plan for Town to you? 'cause it looks a lot more like a mafia trying to sow dissent among the Town while appearing to be active, to me. For this reason, tonight I am going to kill Ace.
I have actually thought this for a while. I hope you are right. I thought the GF was either L, Ace, or Judge. Which is why I thought Judge was a good target for Day 1, it made things a lot less confusing down the road.
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On January 11 2010 06:06 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 03:26 Scamp wrote:
That's it? You dropped off because you didn't have anything to say, and you come back with a medic list of yourself and L?
I don't know why people keep including L on their medic list even when he doesn't do anything. Incognito did the same thing the last game I was in. I don't suspect him as strongly as I did the last game but I certainly don't see the unambiguous town-aligned posting.
My strongest suspicion right now lies with Ace. Ace was supposed to interrogate those responsible for the Malongo lynch and he made it very clear that he was going to do so, but he never did. So the way I see it he's either mafia or a townie that doesn't care anymore. I don't see a reason to keep him around.
I was thinking that either L or Ace has to be mafia, based on the way they're acting. It could be that they're both town-aligned, but they aren't trying to kill each other so I think that option is out. Ace isn't getting himself killed at all, so I'm suspicious. L could be posting just enough to look active and town-aligned, mostly asking easy questions and commenting on plans. Not as suspicious as last game, but certainly not unquestionably town. I'm not posting 'just enough' to be active and town-aligned, I'm the most prolific poster in this game, and I'm driving a huge amount of content. When Chez was originally set up as the fall guy for the claims, I drove to push his target to get killed. I kept judge alive day one because I knew what he was doing. I called out Ace, did most of the analysis on the judge claim, asked questions NO ONE asked prior to me; Why was no one talking about judge's claim prior to my 'why are you guys not talking about it?!' Why was no one talking about Heavonerth's selection for the mafia hit? Why was no one talking about lynch targets day 1. I'll tell you why no one was talking about it; because there are a few consistent posters that posted prior to me opening up the discussions that simply didn't want to talk about said subjects. If there's an active godfather this game, he's likely in that group. I mean, what exactly has anyone else done that puts them above that threshold? I can see a case being made for putting chez on the list given mikey's death, and no one else, really.
Get the fuck off yourself, holy shit. You are not that fucking important.
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On December 31 2008 05:17 Night[Mare wrote:
Mikeymoo is mafia lynch him asap
See this guy understands what is going on...
On December 31 2008 05:12 ShadowDrgn wrote:
You're an insane dt.... or mafia.
No, you got it wrong! I'm either a mad dt or an insane mafia!
On August 04 2009 15:12 Ace wrote:
I am the god of Mafia. I keep trying to tell you guys I don't do the secret IRC thing, account exchanging, comparing PM notes, fishing for roles a million times over which is quite sad also, or even really need to keep probing people for info. You can deny it all you want but like I said before if you've ever seen me give bad advice that hasn't turned out to be the right thing by the end of the game then you can question me. I really don't care how many roles Ver knows, how much info you're little circle has, or even if you keep fishing for roles till the game ends (P.S. you guys are bad at it, the PMs I have confirms it) - just realize you have no idea what I know and that you are acting against the town's best interest. There is NO incentive to hide the names right now.
Random Guy: I know 2 mafiaz!
Town: So tell us!
Random Guy: noez
Town: y not? QQ
Random Guy: I has a plan!
Town: :/
I didn't hide the names!! Now, your acting against the town's best interest!! Save yourself Ace before it is too late!! You can't say I didn't give you a chance! Please, do not mimic Malongo! And if you pull the whole I didn't have bodyguards so I didn't care...It would be sad but believable! Or you could say that you were too busy to play...
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah... I'm bored waiting for night to come so I can beat nemY in a race to see who will vote first...If we both make it that is...
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On January 11 2010 11:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 06:06 L wrote:On January 11 2010 03:26 Scamp wrote:
That's it? You dropped off because you didn't have anything to say, and you come back with a medic list of yourself and L?
I don't know why people keep including L on their medic list even when he doesn't do anything. Incognito did the same thing the last game I was in. I don't suspect him as strongly as I did the last game but I certainly don't see the unambiguous town-aligned posting.
My strongest suspicion right now lies with Ace. Ace was supposed to interrogate those responsible for the Malongo lynch and he made it very clear that he was going to do so, but he never did. So the way I see it he's either mafia or a townie that doesn't care anymore. I don't see a reason to keep him around.
I was thinking that either L or Ace has to be mafia, based on the way they're acting. It could be that they're both town-aligned, but they aren't trying to kill each other so I think that option is out. Ace isn't getting himself killed at all, so I'm suspicious. L could be posting just enough to look active and town-aligned, mostly asking easy questions and commenting on plans. Not as suspicious as last game, but certainly not unquestionably town. I'm not posting 'just enough' to be active and town-aligned, I'm the most prolific poster in this game, and I'm driving a huge amount of content. When Chez was originally set up as the fall guy for the claims, I drove to push his target to get killed. I kept judge alive day one because I knew what he was doing. I called out Ace, did most of the analysis on the judge claim, asked questions NO ONE asked prior to me; Why was no one talking about judge's claim prior to my 'why are you guys not talking about it?!' Why was no one talking about Heavonerth's selection for the mafia hit? Why was no one talking about lynch targets day 1. I'll tell you why no one was talking about it; because there are a few consistent posters that posted prior to me opening up the discussions that simply didn't want to talk about said subjects. If there's an active godfather this game, he's likely in that group. I mean, what exactly has anyone else done that puts them above that threshold? I can see a case being made for putting chez on the list given mikey's death, and no one else, really. Get the fuck off yourself, holy shit. You are not that fucking important.
I did call upon the Great Laces but only L responded with me. Ace went against me... A good GF would have went with me...
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we have 2 hours until day post?
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hopefully 40 mins, if he waits till 10, another day he won't be able to post till midnight and it'll just keep being pushed back >_<
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On January 11 2010 11:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 06:06 L wrote:On January 11 2010 03:26 Scamp wrote:
That's it? You dropped off because you didn't have anything to say, and you come back with a medic list of yourself and L?
I don't know why people keep including L on their medic list even when he doesn't do anything. Incognito did the same thing the last game I was in. I don't suspect him as strongly as I did the last game but I certainly don't see the unambiguous town-aligned posting.
My strongest suspicion right now lies with Ace. Ace was supposed to interrogate those responsible for the Malongo lynch and he made it very clear that he was going to do so, but he never did. So the way I see it he's either mafia or a townie that doesn't care anymore. I don't see a reason to keep him around.
I was thinking that either L or Ace has to be mafia, based on the way they're acting. It could be that they're both town-aligned, but they aren't trying to kill each other so I think that option is out. Ace isn't getting himself killed at all, so I'm suspicious. L could be posting just enough to look active and town-aligned, mostly asking easy questions and commenting on plans. Not as suspicious as last game, but certainly not unquestionably town. I'm not posting 'just enough' to be active and town-aligned, I'm the most prolific poster in this game, and I'm driving a huge amount of content. When Chez was originally set up as the fall guy for the claims, I drove to push his target to get killed. I kept judge alive day one because I knew what he was doing. I called out Ace, did most of the analysis on the judge claim, asked questions NO ONE asked prior to me; Why was no one talking about judge's claim prior to my 'why are you guys not talking about it?!' Why was no one talking about Heavonerth's selection for the mafia hit? Why was no one talking about lynch targets day 1. I'll tell you why no one was talking about it; because there are a few consistent posters that posted prior to me opening up the discussions that simply didn't want to talk about said subjects. If there's an active godfather this game, he's likely in that group. I mean, what exactly has anyone else done that puts them above that threshold? I can see a case being made for putting chez on the list given mikey's death, and no one else, really. Get the fuck off yourself, holy shit. You are not that fucking important.
Lol, just because you suck as much as Ace, doesn't mean you have to get in a hissy fit.
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And we have ~1.5 hours until day post.
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On January 11 2010 12:34 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 11:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 11 2010 06:06 L wrote:On January 11 2010 03:26 Scamp wrote:
That's it? You dropped off because you didn't have anything to say, and you come back with a medic list of yourself and L?
I don't know why people keep including L on their medic list even when he doesn't do anything. Incognito did the same thing the last game I was in. I don't suspect him as strongly as I did the last game but I certainly don't see the unambiguous town-aligned posting.
My strongest suspicion right now lies with Ace. Ace was supposed to interrogate those responsible for the Malongo lynch and he made it very clear that he was going to do so, but he never did. So the way I see it he's either mafia or a townie that doesn't care anymore. I don't see a reason to keep him around.
I was thinking that either L or Ace has to be mafia, based on the way they're acting. It could be that they're both town-aligned, but they aren't trying to kill each other so I think that option is out. Ace isn't getting himself killed at all, so I'm suspicious. L could be posting just enough to look active and town-aligned, mostly asking easy questions and commenting on plans. Not as suspicious as last game, but certainly not unquestionably town. I'm not posting 'just enough' to be active and town-aligned, I'm the most prolific poster in this game, and I'm driving a huge amount of content. When Chez was originally set up as the fall guy for the claims, I drove to push his target to get killed. I kept judge alive day one because I knew what he was doing. I called out Ace, did most of the analysis on the judge claim, asked questions NO ONE asked prior to me; Why was no one talking about judge's claim prior to my 'why are you guys not talking about it?!' Why was no one talking about Heavonerth's selection for the mafia hit? Why was no one talking about lynch targets day 1. I'll tell you why no one was talking about it; because there are a few consistent posters that posted prior to me opening up the discussions that simply didn't want to talk about said subjects. If there's an active godfather this game, he's likely in that group. I mean, what exactly has anyone else done that puts them above that threshold? I can see a case being made for putting chez on the list given mikey's death, and no one else, really. Get the fuck off yourself, holy shit. You are not that fucking important. Lol, just because you suck as much as Ace, doesn't mean you have to get in a hissy fit.
Judge, it has nothing to do with that. L is just so arrogant and never really does anything significant. He acts like no one was going to talk about Judge claiming until he mentioned it, it was obviously going to be a topic of conversation on day one. The day one lynch was discussed you guys ended up killing malongo for some retarded reason instead of you Judge which would of made shit a lot less confusing.
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god damn I just got back. What shall I do?
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I mean every game has some players that do pretty well and accomplish shit, but we always have a handful of arrogant players who don't really do shit. I mean I try to be active and I don't perform horribly all the time and am not a complete condescending douche all the time. Players like BC/Ver usually accomplish the most and aren't douches when posting.
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RoL's angry that he's probably going to be lynched soon and flip red.
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Why are you even paying Judge any attention? He's played a few games on MS and thinks he's pro now lol.
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I agree, I think regardless of your alignment Ace his plan was dumb as shit with a godfather in the game. However I have thought your lack of content and posting was kind of suspicious. Zato's post was awesome.
If Ace is GF games most likely over in a day.
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Meh I missed about 36 hours of critical game time. I told everyone I'd be gone from 12-9 PM ET time and I got back at 1~ AM last night.
Then went back out at 11AM this morning.
:'(
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Day 3
The sirens blared in the background as Ace realized that he had been discovered. He quickly put away his dagger and frantically proceeded to bandage vx70GTOJudgexv's wounds. When the police car arrived, Ace turned around, pointing in the westerly direction while assertively stating, "They went that way. I can take care of these wounds, they're not fatal."
But the shadowy figure that emerged from the car was not fooled by Ace's guise and pulled out a red hot iron, shoving it at Ace's face, cracking his skull and scarring him with the message: GGNORE.
"Two down, one to go," said the man as he drove away, leaving Ace the godfather behind in the dust
***
Day 3 voting starts now. Please vote in the thread located here. You have until 8:00 PM PST the night post. Remember the game has no clues.
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GG!!!!! DEATH TO NEMY!!!!!
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btw, I really am the detective..
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lol chillin L. whats good brotha?
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Yo, bro, you gotta be more active if you're mafia. Your zero content made it obv you were mafs. Shoulda jumped on the 'rape mikey' train.
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Behold pm's I had with Ace
+ Show Spoiler +From: Ace [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Dear Father
Date: 1/8/10 09:38
lol be patient my son. My Brown heart still beats!
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Don't kill me tonight. I know incog always pits us against eachother. But can I have a chance to get you killed first? Tomorrow, mikeymoo is getting lynched so you will live another day, so please spare me another day. ok thanks! If you kill me again.....that would be sad...But I wont be mad....but it would be bad...because im just a lad...so much I could have had...It wouldn't be rad...and I wouldn't be glad...and you wouldn't be my dad!
To: Ace [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Dear Mafia
Date: 1/8/10 21:25
whatever, mafia!
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
ok, mafia!
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Original Message:
ok, mafia!
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Original Message:
why wouldn't I doubt you? You flip flopped one your Day 1 votes. If that didn't happen I probably would have believed you but if you know anything about me I don't trust anyone easily.
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Original Message:
come on, you doubting me was the biggest give away that your mafia.
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Original Message:
what lol?
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Original Message:
I abandon the brown, that is the biggest proof that I'm blue. I guess your going to kill me since I'm blue? This is incog's world. The world you betrayed me.
To: Ace [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: plan sent to mikey
Date: 1/8/10 21:52
I sent a plan for you to mikey earlier..I'm sad now that I know your mafia... There is no other logical explanation..
To: Ace [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: T-R-U-S-T
Date: 1/9/10 14:41
I'm helping you live right now. I'm casting suspicion on you. Now the mafia won't kill you! Oh wait.. what if you are the mafia?
Faith > logic when dealing with Chezinu's craziness!
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
not in a game of Mafia
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Original Message:
Faith > logic
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Original Message:
no logic > emotion
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Original Message:
Emotion > logic?
To: Ace [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: About mikey
Date: 1/10/10 08:06
Well, he told me he doesn't want me to message him anymore. So can you tell him about tip #5?
To: Ace [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Save Yourself!!!
Date: 1/11/10 08:43
You can save yourself!! All you have to do is go like, "vigi kill nemY instead of me!"
Don't worry nemY is not the vigi!
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On January 11 2010 14:30 L wrote:
Yo, bro, you gotta be more active if you're mafia. Your zero content made it obv you were mafs. Shoulda jumped on the 'rape mikey' train.
That's what I told Ace to do! But mikey didn't forward the message!
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On January 11 2010 14:30 L wrote:
Yo, bro, you gotta be more active if you're mafia. Your zero content made it obv you were mafs. Shoulda jumped on the 'rape mikey' train.
I wasnt here, was working :/
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So do you guys want to guess my role?
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On January 11 2010 14:44 Chezinu wrote:
So do you guys want to guess my role?
Village Idiot?
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On January 11 2010 14:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 14:44 Chezinu wrote:
So do you guys want to guess my role? Village Idiot?
Your nemY close!
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Town victory!
Mafia resigns. Role list and actions post coming up shortly.
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that was ridiculously fast
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Detective: Chezinu
Medic: RebirthOfLeGend
Vigilante: Zato-1
Godfather: Ace
Mafia: mikeymoo
Mafia: nemY
Townies:
L
Scamp
Vivi57
Malongo
HeavOnEarth
vx70GTOJudgexv
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re re i love remixes!
and dont kill me first bitches!
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Jeez, that was fast and furious.
I thought after day one things were going to get difficult.
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Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win.
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On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win.
fucker i helped the town a lot by not voting.
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Actions:
Day 1:
Town lynches Malongo.
Night 1:
DT: Chezinu checks mikeymoo, gets back mafia.
Medic: RebirthOfLeGend protects self
Vigi: No action
Mafia: Elect Ace as Godfather, Hits HeavOnEarth
Day 2:
Town lynches mikeymoo
Night 2:
DT: Chezinu checks nemY, gets back mafia.
Medic: RebirthOfLeGend protects self
Vigi: Zato-1 hits Ace
Mafia: Hits vx70GTOJudgexv
Day 3: Town victory
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Well, that does indeed explain everything. RoL I'm surprised you didn't realize we were going to kill him given that you knew he wasn't a medic because of your role.
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On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win.
Malongo is the town's MVP
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On January 11 2010 15:39 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win. Malongo is the town's MVP
Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you.
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RoL!!! After all our conversations, you protected yourself??? Well, I had bluff shields and I die you die tactics..So I guess I was good..
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This was a really weird game of mafia... i'll post more details later 
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On January 11 2010 15:39 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:39 Ace wrote:On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win. Malongo is the town's MVP Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you.
why would I kill RoL who amazingly was the only other person to call Judge's BS? Anyone claiming Day 1 should be scrutinized because...we've been through this like 5 games already. Especially MEDIC of all roles.
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Imo this was a little underbalanced against mafia. Well they didnt play that good either.
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On January 11 2010 15:38 L wrote:
Well, that does indeed explain everything. RoL I'm surprised you didn't realize we were going to kill him given that you knew he wasn't a medic because of your role.
I figured you would aim for Chezinu until he found NemY then it seemed less of a priority. He still could of been GF although I was leaving towards Ace. I knew he wasn't medic and I generally associate lying to mafia. His plan also seemed stupid with a GF role.
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On January 11 2010 15:42 Malongo wrote:
Imo this was a little underbalanced against mafia. Well they didnt play that good either.
we played fine. We just had some weird bad luck moments, and a few good ones. You not killing Judge actually saved the town from a serious situation.
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L kept saying that the town should keep checking HeavOnEarth's post, someone (Scamp?) compiled a list but it was ignored. nemY kept questioning the mafia's choice to kill HeavOnEarth day 1, but the town didnt' catch on. Too bad since HeavOnEarth picked out Ace + nemY as mafia. I was really sad about that, but I guess it doesnt matter too much ja?
Next game no medic self protects.
Question for everyone about DT checks: should checks be returned when they are asked for or after the day post comes up? Usually I think this hasn't been much of an issue, but this game DT got two mafia in a row and DID decide to claim so I don't know what you guys think about that.
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On January 11 2010 15:47 Incognito wrote:
L kept saying that the town should keep checking HeavOnEarth's post, someone (Scamp?) compiled a list but it was ignored. nemY kept questioning the mafia's choice to kill HeavOnEarth day 1, but the town didnt' catch on. Too bad since HeavOnEarth picked out Ace + nemY as mafia. I was really sad about that, but I guess it doesnt matter too much ja?
Next game no medic self protects.
Question for everyone about DT checks: should checks be returned when they are asked for or after the day post comes up? Usually I think this hasn't been much of an issue, but this game DT got two mafia in a row and DID decide to claim so I don't know what you guys think about that.
LOL i always thought dts get the info after day post. That way they cant post his findings before the post. Absolutely imba.
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On January 11 2010 15:42 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:39 L wrote:On January 11 2010 15:39 Ace wrote:On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win. Malongo is the town's MVP Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you. why would I kill RoL who amazingly was the only other person to call Judge's BS? Anyone claiming Day 1 should be scrutinized because...we've been through this like 5 games already. Especially MEDIC of all roles.
Because it was pretty obvious that the only people who would be willing to go so far as to campaign to kill the guy would either:
1) Know he IS lying.
or
2) Be fearful mafia.
Scrutinizing is fine; I pretty much vomited the fact that he wasn't the medic into the open during day 1. Killing the guy, however, prior to him taking a single anti-town action is way off into crazyland. There's no incentive for a green townie to rail for his lynch unless you were heavily trying to metagame, which wasn't an explanation anyone brought up. People simply talked about prior metagaming regarding early claims. nemY also hung himself this way.
Judge and I talked about you either being a vanilla townie trying to trap people with your push against judge, or being a mafia. When you were unrepentant, you kinda sealed your own fate.
I'll be honest though, between you and RoL, I was certain one was mafia. I wasn't 100% certain of which, though, which I remarked to Zato when he asked me for comments regarding hitting you. In the end, I think I made a rather large error in my analysis by ignoring the reaction of the legit medic to judge's claim, but it all worked out because chez and zato fucking raped this shit.
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On January 11 2010 15:52 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:47 Incognito wrote:
L kept saying that the town should keep checking HeavOnEarth's post, someone (Scamp?) compiled a list but it was ignored. nemY kept questioning the mafia's choice to kill HeavOnEarth day 1, but the town didnt' catch on. Too bad since HeavOnEarth picked out Ace + nemY as mafia. I was really sad about that, but I guess it doesnt matter too much ja?
Next game no medic self protects.
Question for everyone about DT checks: should checks be returned when they are asked for or after the day post comes up? Usually I think this hasn't been much of an issue, but this game DT got two mafia in a row and DID decide to claim so I don't know what you guys think about that.
LOL i always thought dts get the info after day post. That way they cant post his findings before the post. Absolutely imba.
I know Qatol gives the results immediately. Don't know about other hosts though.
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Yeah, normally DT checks are given the moment they're asked. I haven't seen it happen differently :o.
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On January 11 2010 15:58 L wrote:
Yeah, normally DT checks are given the moment they're asked. I haven't seen it happen differently :o.
wow..All the abuse previous players missed out on...The I die, you die tactic...
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On January 11 2010 15:55 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:52 Malongo wrote:On January 11 2010 15:47 Incognito wrote:
L kept saying that the town should keep checking HeavOnEarth's post, someone (Scamp?) compiled a list but it was ignored. nemY kept questioning the mafia's choice to kill HeavOnEarth day 1, but the town didnt' catch on. Too bad since HeavOnEarth picked out Ace + nemY as mafia. I was really sad about that, but I guess it doesnt matter too much ja?
Next game no medic self protects.
Question for everyone about DT checks: should checks be returned when they are asked for or after the day post comes up? Usually I think this hasn't been much of an issue, but this game DT got two mafia in a row and DID decide to claim so I don't know what you guys think about that.
LOL i always thought dts get the info after day post. That way they cant post his findings before the post. Absolutely imba. I know Qatol gives the results immediately. Don't know about other hosts though.
The problem with giving results before the post is that allows a time window for the dt to hint his findings in case he is dead that day. Never knew about how that works never been dt ~_~
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On January 11 2010 15:58 L wrote:
Yeah, normally DT checks are given the moment they're asked. I haven't seen it happen differently :o.
I always thought that too until Chez asked if he could publish his info. Then I thought back to RL mafia and remembered that DT's can't speak until the next day begins so I was somewhat confused...it hasn't been too much of an issue before since I don't think anyone has successfully discovered a mafia AND roleclaimed all at once. Is it a problem? Or should this be allowed?
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Also I was laughing after Ace asked to flip Medic if he was rolechecked. 3 "medics" lol.
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On January 11 2010 16:01 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:58 L wrote:
Yeah, normally DT checks are given the moment they're asked. I haven't seen it happen differently :o. I always thought that too until Chez asked if he could publish his info. Then I thought back to RL mafia and remembered that DT's can't speak until the next day begins so I was somewhat confused...it hasn't been too much of an issue before since I don't think anyone has successfully discovered a mafia AND roleclaimed all at once. Is it a problem? Or should this be allowed?
Plenty of people have discovered a medic and told a mouth in the same night, then been hit prior to day starting. Happens quite often.
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On January 11 2010 15:39 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:39 Ace wrote:On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win. Malongo is the town's MVP Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you.
haha that made me think you were mafia when you pulled that shit. Because I told Judge to see how he would respond then you started attacking me randomly and I figured that was you and Judge working together which seemed mafiaish.
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On January 11 2010 15:53 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:42 Ace wrote:On January 11 2010 15:39 L wrote:On January 11 2010 15:39 Ace wrote:On January 11 2010 15:37 Scamp wrote:Screw that Malongo. Killing you led to town cruising for the win. Malongo is the town's MVP Ace, I gave you the opportunity to wagon the medic. Don't say I don't love you. why would I kill RoL who amazingly was the only other person to call Judge's BS? Anyone claiming Day 1 should be scrutinized because...we've been through this like 5 games already. Especially MEDIC of all roles. Because it was pretty obvious that the only people who would be willing to go so far as to campaign to kill the guy would either: 1) Know he IS lying. or 2) Be fearful mafia. Scrutinizing is fine; I pretty much vomited the fact that he wasn't the medic into the open during day 1. Killing the guy, however, prior to him taking a single anti-town action is way off into crazyland. There's no incentive for a green townie to rail for his lynch unless you were heavily trying to metagame, which wasn't an explanation anyone brought up. People simply talked about prior metagaming regarding early claims. nemY also hung himself this way. Judge and I talked about you either being a vanilla townie trying to trap people with your push against judge, or being a mafia. When you were unrepentant, you kinda sealed your own fate. I'll be honest though, between you and RoL, I was certain one was mafia. I wasn't 100% certain of which, though, which I remarked to Zato when he asked me for comments regarding hitting you. In the end, I think I made a rather large error in my analysis by ignoring the reaction of the legit medic to judge's claim, but it all worked out because chez and zato fucking raped this shit.
I guess I'll have to show you why I thought this was just a bad play by the town overall that just worked out very lucky.
The minute Judge claimed Medic I was expecting a town lynch. It was actually the perfect reaction no matter what role I had : any Day 1 claims especially something that can't be proven should be looked at as a Mafia ploy. We've been through this like almost every game but it's impossible to know when the town is thinking straight.
I immediately told Incognito to make me a Medic and I started accusing Judge. Even with Judge's bad play I was hoping I'd get DT checked. Amazingly I didn't, nor did Judge. This was my alibi for calling Judge out - I knew he was lying not only because it was a dumb move but because I was the real medic.
Next I had the Malongo situation because Zato came out of no where and blew Malongo up. This was a HUGE turning point of the game for a lot of reasons:
Zato looked like he was saving Judge. In all fairness in any reasonable game Judge looked like Mafia for his move.
L you yourself were batting for Judge blindly. There was no plan that could be implemented based on RCs when there's a GF in the game. None. I knew this and a few other people did too. Thats why when Judge was screaming about it I was thinking tough shit - no one cares. Especially when you say "wait and see" - that should have been the prime lynching point for Judge.
With all that we had a prime situation: 2 of you looked like Mafia and Zato at the least looked fishy. He called Malongo out literally based on nothing. My whole play was me acting like a Medic all game knowing that Judge was lying.
When the lynch came we also got another break. Chezinu said he was PMing around with Scamp. Scamp then last minute votes while Chez is playing around and taunting Malongo and Judge. Then Chez flip flops. I was actually sitting here thinking to myself how is possible no one would lynch Chez at this point?
Everything up to this point was great for us. No Mafia were in the crosshairs except myself, which was great. Several townies were looking really bad, and for some weird reason L wanted to go for RoL who honestly played like a perfect townie. He did nothing wrong yet.
Then the play that ended the game came. Malongo didn't off Judge. This was the major play of the game that saved the town. None of the Mafia had any incentive to switch off of Judge because it made 0 sense - Judge looked guilty. If he died and flipped whatever he was (I knew he wasn't a Medic) Zato was going to be fucked royally (well, probably not with the way the town was playing). L still had a decent alibi saying he wanted to see what the plan was. Malongo was surely going to live no matter what, and we would have went into the next night sailing smooth with some good targets to hit.
Chezinu role claims the next day, and then Zato does right after. This was SWEET for us because no matter what Chez said it wasn't going to stick. I went to bed knowing it was highly possible for chez to die.
Then I had to go to work and didn't come back for about 36 hours up to this point. In this time span MM as rallied on, and I didn't even have a chance to put in any posts because I was away. Zato also brings forth a mega post based on the last time I was Mafia (another game in which I missed the beginning of everything) and trumps me. If I was here I could have used my Medic defense and shown why I played the way I did. But Zato crucially pointed out that instead of trying to bury Judge I blamed people. This was a break in my defense because if I claimed Medic I should have kept hammering on Judge. He was the only person in the game to pick up on it while everyone else kept saying "ace is suspicious" which everyone says any game I play in.
So all in all I think we did well considering the town had 0 clue what was going on, and it was Malongo's play and Chez's Ids that got the game sealed away. The town was making mistake after mistake and before this time frame no one was doing anything.
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Ace, if my play was so bad, and I was for sure not the medic...
why kill me?
Let it set in.
GG.
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I don't know Judge. If someone had a plan and it's pretty a pretty ridiculous lie I'd be crazy to not attack it.
GG.
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Let's say I did get lynched instead of mikey. I did send this to Zato-1.
To: Zato-1 [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: If I get lynched
Date: 1/8/10 21:55
kill Ace tonight. Then the next day town will lynch mikeymoo.
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On January 11 2010 16:49 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Ace, if my play was so bad, and I was for sure not the medic...
why kill me?
Let it set in.
GG.
Exactly.
It isn't enough that you think judge is lying. You need to think he's mafia and stands to gain something from lying.
Additionally, how could I have been batting blind if my switch from criticism to support was admittedly when judge told me the content of his plan during day 1.
What godfather would volunteer himself for a CONFIRMATION lynch and call a huge amount of town attention to himself? If judge was mafia, he asked for a DT check and would be killed according to his plan. If he was godfather, my slight modification to his plan would have removed his trade for our DT and left him essentially self-raped for no benefit. If he was town, we got a confirmed townie pool to claim to.
So why would I want to have him killed day 1?
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On January 11 2010 16:53 Ace wrote:
I don't know Judge. If someone had a plan and it's pretty a pretty ridiculous lie I'd be crazy to not attack it.
GG.
You're an idiot. I stand by my statement that you're an incompetent mafia player, now I'm adding in you're just plain incompetent.
I'll ask again.
If I'm such a bad player, and I'm such a hinderance for the town.
Why the NIGHT KILL jackass?
Usually mafia only nightkill those who they feel are a threat to them in the town.
But funny, according to you, I seem to be useless and the reason town almost lost.
Hmmmm.... flawed logic much?
So again.
GG.
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On January 11 2010 16:49 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Ace, if my play was so bad, and I was for sure not the medic...
why kill me?
Let it set in.
GG.
Way to be cocky about it bud, I was the one who sent the hit in (Ace was afk) and I just blindly picked someone and it happened to be you 
My original plan was to lynch Chez, but after he up and outed me as mafia, I felt that would be a bit too blatant to kill him, so with time running out i resorted to a random hit. Your play had nothing to do with your death
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On January 11 2010 17:00 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 16:49 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Ace, if my play was so bad, and I was for sure not the medic...
why kill me?
Let it set in.
GG. Exactly. It isn't enough that you think judge is lying. You need to think he's mafia and stands to gain something from lying. Additionally, how could I have been batting blind if my switch from criticism to support was admittedly when judge told me the content of his plan during day 1. What godfather would volunteer himself for a CONFIRMATION lynch and call a huge amount of town attention to himself? If judge was mafia, he asked for a DT check and would be killed according to his plan. If he was godfather, my slight modification to his plan would have removed his trade for our DT and left him essentially self-raped for no benefit. If he was town, we got a confirmed townie pool to claim to. So why would I want to have him killed day 1?
He gains the fact that the town believes he's a legit Medic. It doesn't matter if I believe he has nothing else to gain from it. He's lying. This is fundamental action of the game: a person lying blatantly is anti-town. There is no extra layer of what ifs and whys.
It also doesn't matter that he asked for a confirmation lynch via DT check: How do you know once he's checked whatever he flips doesn't call for the DT to talk up? You don't. That's the entire point of Lynch All Liars play. You don't know as much information as he does so you can't know what his benefits are. Hence, you just lynch anyone lying to stop any Mafia from bullshit claims on Day 1.
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On January 11 2010 17:08 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 16:53 Ace wrote:
I don't know Judge. If someone had a plan and it's pretty a pretty ridiculous lie I'd be crazy to not attack it.
GG. You're an idiot. I stand by my statement that you're an incompetent mafia player, now I'm adding in you're just plain incompetent. I'll ask again. If I'm such a bad player, and I'm such a hinderance for the town. Why the NIGHT KILL jackass? Usually mafia only nightkill those who they feel are a threat to them in the town. But funny, according to you, I seem to be useless and the reason town almost lost. Hmmmm.... flawed logic much? So again. GG.
I DIDNT KILL YOU I WASNT HERE. How many times do I have to tell you that? Durrrr?
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He gains the fact that the town believes he's a legit Medic If the plan didn't involve him admitting he wasn't a medic post check, then subsequently KILLING HIMSELF you might be right.
Unless you think that having enough people believing he was medic to keep himself alive into day 2 was a good trade off for painting crosshairs on his head in the first place. I'd argue that it isn't.
How do you know once he's checked whatever he flips doesn't call for the DT to talk up? Oh, it obviously does call for the DT to talk up, but there's a way to prevent judge from being the person that gets talked to by the DT; Make someone else the mouth.
Anyways, sleep for me.
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On January 11 2010 15:47 Incognito wrote:
L kept saying that the town should keep checking HeavOnEarth's post, someone (Scamp?) compiled a list but it was ignored. nemY kept questioning the mafia's choice to kill HeavOnEarth day 1, but the town didnt' catch on. Too bad since HeavOnEarth picked out Ace + nemY as mafia. I was really sad about that, but I guess it doesnt matter too much ja?
Next game no medic self protects.
Question for everyone about DT checks: should checks be returned when they are asked for or after the day post comes up? Usually I think this hasn't been much of an issue, but this game DT got two mafia in a row and DID decide to claim so I don't know what you guys think about that.
See this game had a weird/interesting scenario that will probably never happen again (unless Chez is DT again... ok it will probably happen again). Last night I wanted to hit Chezinu so bad. MM was dead and gone, Ace had been afk for awhile, so it was essentially team me. I wanted to hit Chez for a few reasons:
1.) He's the DT at best, a mouth at worst. If he's the DT, great we got him and we eliminate the possibility of role checks. If he's a mouth for somebody, then we've eliminated that channel for the DT to use and will be that much closer to drawing him out.
2.) He's annoying.
3.) He just busted MM on being mafia. Of course we'd want to kill him, unless we can convince the town he's not actually the DT (which i was trying rather unsuccessfully to do).
4.) He's annoying.
So anyways I log onto TL at or around half time of the Packers/Cardinals game to report my hit when I notice I have a new PM. I log into my msgs and guess who it's from? Sure enough after that I go look at the mafia thread and see some number of posts of Chez saying "NEMY'S MAFIA". Kinda puts a wrench in my plans to kill him doesn't it? I can kill him out of spite and i'd still be dead the next day or i can kill somebody else and try to defend myself against the useless onslaught of "HE'S MAFIA" posts and absurd logic of the town. At least I thought the town's logic was absurd... I thought I did a decent job of defending myself considering the situation, oh well probably too little too late.
However if I had gotten the hit in before he could receive DT check then this situation would have never happened. He'd be dead and the spotlight wouldn't have shone so brightly on me. It wouldn't have mattered in the end game of this game because Ace was vigi'd anyways, but it certainly could be a game changer in future games.
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You forgot to post the best part! The pm's!
+ Show Spoiler +
To: nemY [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: HI MAFIA!!!
Date: 1/11/10 07:15
You guys think you can hidez from me??? lololololololol!!!!!!!
DIE DIE DIE DIE !!!!
Are you going to try and kill me out of spite now??? eh???
Then..
+ Show Spoiler +From: nemY [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: INNER PERSONALITY!
Date: 1/11/10 08:43
You are full of so much shit I can't wait to bust you on this; have fun being lynched!
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
So wouldn't that be cool if I was like a mad detective and I could see inner personalities? Just saying...
Anyways! Why didn't you say hi to Scamp publicly??? Are you afraid people would notice you?? huh huh??
I would love to see your defense this time! MUHAHAHAHA
I IS ARE MAFIA!!!!! USE THIS PM AGAINST ME AND I WILL RELEASE FAR WORSE INFORMATION!!! *TAUNT! TAUNT! TAUNT!*
To: nemY [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Oh I forgot to thank you
Date: 1/11/10 08:50
THANK YOU FOR NOT KILLING ME TONIGHT!!!! Good luck trying to lynch me!!! NOT!!! I want you to fail for obvious reasons! You guys to kill Ace tonight while the Vigi kills you!!
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The minute Judge claimed Medic I was expecting a town lynch. It was actually the perfect reaction no matter what role I had : any Day 1 claims especially something that can't be proven should be looked at as a Mafia ploy. We've been through this like almost every game but it's impossible to know when the town is thinking straight.
wrong. there's very little to gain from lynching judge at that point
I immediately told Incognito to make me a Medic and I started accusing Judge. Even with Judge's bad play I was hoping I'd get DT checked. Amazingly I didn't, nor did Judge. This was my alibi for calling Judge out - I knew he was lying not only because it was a dumb move but because I was the real medic.
mistake 2. We agreed that judge would turn up blue whether he was gf medic or vet. We were wrong, but there was still a 100% chance he wouldn't turn up red. We also knew that if you were mafia, you'd be gf so checking you was stupid.
When the lynch came we also got another break. Chezinu said he was PMing around with Scamp. Scamp then last minute votes while Chez is playing around and taunting Malongo and Judge. Then Chez flip flops. I was actually sitting here thinking to myself how is possible no one would lynch Chez at this point?
timing. At this point, you said you'd lynch chez if others would too. At this point, I would have lynched chez for being a retard. Chez can now say he made a genius play by doing this after it was too late to swap votes
Then the play that ended the game came. Malongo didn't off Judge. This was the major play of the game that saved the town. None of the Mafia had any incentive to switch off of Judge because it made 0 sense - Judge looked guilty. If he died and flipped whatever he was (I knew he wasn't a Medic) Zato was going to be fucked royally (well, probably not with the way the town was playing). L still had a decent alibi saying he wanted to see what the plan was. Malongo was surely going to live no matter what, and we would have went into the next night sailing smooth with some good targets to hit.
yes, amazing play by malongo
Chezinu role claims the next day, and then Zato does right after. This was SWEET for us because no matter what Chez said it wasn't going to stick. I went to bed knowing it was highly possible for chez to die.
mistake 3. Going over all the possible scenarios, it was an extremely easy decision to hit mikey then vig chez if necessary. You keep playing under the assumption that killing all claimers is the best way to go about it and that's made you make many mistakes this game.
So all in all I think we did well considering the town had 0 clue what was going on, and it was Malongo's play and Chez's Ids that got the game sealed away. The town was making mistake after mistake and before this time frame no one was doing anything.
The best players will make you think they played like shit and just get lucky while in reality, they're so many levels ahead of you that you can't begin to comprehend what they're thinking. Your continual cries to lynch the claimer hurt you badly because everyone could ignore you instead of having to respond to constructive play.
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On January 11 2010 18:15 Vivi57 wrote:Show nested quote +The minute Judge claimed Medic I was expecting a town lynch. It was actually the perfect reaction no matter what role I had : any Day 1 claims especially something that can't be proven should be looked at as a Mafia ploy. We've been through this like almost every game but it's impossible to know when the town is thinking straight. No it's right. We know he's lying. Its no longer even a question of "oh gee why would Mafia do that?!". You don't know what the Mafia knows. You don't know if someone slipped up some info in PMs. It comes down to is this guy lying or not? And townies that lie aren't going to get you very far. This very game showed you that because for all the praise of Judge's plan it didn't even come through. Show nested quote +
I immediately told Incognito to make me a Medic and I started accusing Judge. Even with Judge's bad play I was hoping I'd get DT checked. Amazingly I didn't, nor did Judge. This was my alibi for calling Judge out - I knew he was lying not only because it was a dumb move but because I was the real medic.
Show nested quote +
mistake 2. We agreed that judge would turn up blue whether he was gf medic or vet. We were wrong, but there was still a 100% chance he wouldn't turn up red. We also knew that if you were mafia, you'd be gf so checking you was stupid.
Wrong again. You have NO idea about anything relating to Judge. Nothing. There was no one connected to Judge in any way. All you know is this: Judge claimed Medic on Day 1. Stop trying to make it sound like there was some hidden condition by which Judge had to be innocent. There isn't one. You also didn't know I was GF. This is the same logic that was used last game I was Mafia and look what happened then. Show nested quote +Chezinu role claims the next day, and then Zato does right after. This was SWEET for us because no matter what Chez said it wasn't going to stick. I went to bed knowing it was highly possible for chez to die. Show nested quote +mistake 3. Going over all the possible scenarios, it was an extremely easy decision to hit mikey then vig chez if necessary. You keep playing under the assumption that killing all claimers is the best way to go about it and that's made you make many mistakes this game. What is this bs? Can you list all the possible scenarios? The only claimer I wanted to kill was Judge. He lied, he had a plan, and it was on a role that couldn't be verified. Whether I'm town or Mafia why in the hell would I want him in a leadership role? Show nested quote +So all in all I think we did well considering the town had 0 clue what was going on, and it was Malongo's play and Chez's Ids that got the game sealed away. The town was making mistake after mistake and before this time frame no one was doing anything. Show nested quote +
The best players will make you think they played like shit and just get lucky while in reality, they're so many levels ahead of you that you can't begin to comprehend what they're thinking. Your continual cries to lynch the claimer hurt you badly because everyone could ignore you instead of having to respond to constructive play.
Amazing, because the best players this game were 2, possibly even a 3rd person no one would have expected. Don't even try to post drivel like this and make it sound like there was some major mind game going on here. There was no major comprehension that was missing at all this game - everyone was playing screwy and letting things that normally would lead to death, like lying, just go. The site Judge even plays on his this in plain sight.
Then again you can just ask other Mafia players on this forum that didn't play but watched this game what they think. Either way I had fun this game but in no way should anyone think Medic claims on Day 1 is some brilliant strategy that only Einstein could come up with - especially when it didn't even help you win.
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Well fun game guys :D Just a few post game thoughts.
Why did you guys hit HoE night one? That seemed like a really strange decision. You had plenty more good hits in you.
But Judge the main reason your plan didn't work was because of the GF. There is literally no reason to check you as the DT, whatever he gets back won't be mafia no matter what. It could be argued that you could hide a normal mafia by doing this plan (since he won't get checked anyway) which would be an epic move. I was not only against your plan because I was the medic, but it was because your plan hinged on the DT checking you which just wasn't going to happen. Even if he sees green it doesn't matter, you could still be the GF. But yes you could suicide and prove your true allegiance but what would that really accomplish?
Oh and Ace, I think lynching Judge would of actually benefited the town more. A lot of people were still very skeptical about Judge and his plan could not take effect because the DT wouldn't do as he wanted because the GF mechanic made it seem pointless. If Judge died it would of made me suspect either you or L as the GF. The way you were posting was suspicious because I saw the same thing Zato did (I didn't research it nearly as well as he did. Amazing job.) and L was just being abrasive again and is hard to read because he always plays the same.
Judge being alive left too many possibilities and if he died instead of Malongo it would of cleared a lot up for me at least.
The plan ended up not working though, just as Ace said. We won because of Chez's checks and behavior analysis and Zato's amazing GF analysis. I don't think Malongo not killing himself was a big deal.
The only reason Malongo's play MAY have fucked you is simply because you all ended up on the same list which wasn't even that suspicious considering we thought that Judge might of been mafia which meant the people on the Malongo list were more suspect then those on the Judge list. Except obviously to Judge who knew who he was looking at.
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Oh and Ace am I still on your lovely Abyss list? That would be very hurtful
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On January 11 2010 18:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Oh and Ace am I still on your lovely Abyss list? That would be very hurtful
I don't think you need to ask that after protecting YOURSELF twice in a row :D
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lol @ rol <3
We hit HoE because he was posting quality stuff, and we didn't even need to touch the main townies. All of them were playing suspicious enough that leaving them alive was beneficial. I think nemy or MM also had Scamp as a possible target.
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On January 11 2010 18:59 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 18:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Oh and Ace am I still on your lovely Abyss list? That would be very hurtful I don't think you need to ask that after protecting YOURSELF twice in a row :D
Fuck that, self preservation. You gave me an immortal role. The fact I didn't role claim and laugh at everyone is impressive to myself.
But yeah, no more self protection I didn't even bother to think about who to protect. I figure if I keep posting they will think I am blue or catching on to them and hit me. I didn't feel like guessing at who was going to die.
I can also assure you I would of missed both protects both days. If I wasn't going to protect myself Night 1 I would of protected Ace maybe? Dunno. At that time he was being arguing to lynch Judge and wasn't attacking as many townies. Night two I would of protected Chezinu.
So I figure rather then guess where the mafia were, try to trick them into hitting me. I also thought Judge was a mafia so I told him my role and taunted him figuring it would fuck with his head on whether or not to hit me or not.
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Sorry I killed you, Malongo. I thought you were mafia, and I was wrong :p
As to DTs getting results instantly: I think it's fine, really.
As to medics protecting themselves: I think it's better if they were unable to do this.
Some thought that responding to role claims so favorably was uncharacteristic of the Town. The way I see it- the Town needs leadership and a plan if they want to win. Sitting back, chilling and waiting to see what happens is lazy / sloppy Town play, in my book. Worst case scenario for Town is when they're pointing the finger at each other while mafia lie back and don't commit to anything- which is exactly the situation Ace and Pyrr engineered on that other game I quoted, Mini Mafia 2.
For this reason, I was relatively sympathetic to bold moves like Judge and Chezinu's roleclaim. For me, the turning point happened shortly after Day 2 came- we were two Townies down and with no good leads for mafia, and the Town members had begun to get restless. Losing our temper promised to be bad, which is why I roleclaimed shortly thereafter- besides, the timing and my role made it relatively inexpensive to give myself away. I'd use my special ability before mafia could take it away from me.
Then there was Chezinu's DT checks. He screwed up Judge's plan, but was so ridiculously effective at uncovering mafia, he took care of pretty much everything but the godfather. On a side note, I'm glad I was right about Ace- after starting a misguided bandwagon on Malongo, getting a second innocent killed would've looked bad ^^;
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Oh and as to my relative absence for a couple of days? I was playing WoW ¬¬
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On January 11 2010 15:55 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 15:52 Malongo wrote:On January 11 2010 15:47 Incognito wrote:
L kept saying that the town should keep checking HeavOnEarth's post, someone (Scamp?) compiled a list but it was ignored. nemY kept questioning the mafia's choice to kill HeavOnEarth day 1, but the town didnt' catch on. Too bad since HeavOnEarth picked out Ace + nemY as mafia. I was really sad about that, but I guess it doesnt matter too much ja?
Next game no medic self protects.
Question for everyone about DT checks: should checks be returned when they are asked for or after the day post comes up? Usually I think this hasn't been much of an issue, but this game DT got two mafia in a row and DID decide to claim so I don't know what you guys think about that.
LOL i always thought dts get the info after day post. That way they cant post his findings before the post. Absolutely imba. I know Qatol gives the results immediately. Don't know about other hosts though.
I know for sure BC does it that way as well. I'm pretty sure Chuiu has also been doing that? Not 100% though.
As for medics, I believe they are way too strong with self-protect. The biggest problem I have with it is what incentive is there to use Veteran any more? A medic who just self-protects every night is stronger than a Veteran. And on top of that, the medic can change that prot to anyone else? I guess you can use Veteran as a "dumbed down" role, but really, I just don't like that much of an overlap. Also, if 3 life Veterans and the Rock Star were too strong, an infinite life Medic is highly unlikely to be balanced.
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On January 11 2010 18:29 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 18:15 Vivi57 wrote:The minute Judge claimed Medic I was expecting a town lynch. It was actually the perfect reaction no matter what role I had : any Day 1 claims especially something that can't be proven should be looked at as a Mafia ploy. We've been through this like almost every game but it's impossible to know when the town is thinking straight.
wrong. there's very little to gain from lynching judge at that point
No it's right. We know he's lying. Its no longer even a question of "oh gee why would Mafia do that?!". You don't know what the Mafia knows. You don't know if someone slipped up some info in PMs. It comes down to is this guy lying or not? And townies that lie aren't going to get you very far. This very game showed you that because for all the praise of Judge's plan it didn't even come through.
I immediately told Incognito to make me a Medic and I started accusing Judge. Even with Judge's bad play I was hoping I'd get DT checked. Amazingly I didn't, nor did Judge. This was my alibi for calling Judge out - I knew he was lying not only because it was a dumb move but because I was the real medic.
mistake 2. We agreed that judge would turn up blue whether he was gf medic or vet. We were wrong, but there was still a 100% chance he wouldn't turn up red. We also knew that if you were mafia, you'd be gf so checking you was stupid.
Wrong again. You have NO idea about anything relating to Judge. Nothing. There was no one connected to Judge in any way. All you know is this: Judge claimed Medic on Day 1. Stop trying to make it sound like there was some hidden condition by which Judge had to be innocent. There isn't one. You also didn't know I was GF. This is the same logic that was used last game I was Mafia and look what happened then. Chezinu role claims the next day, and then Zato does right after. This was SWEET for us because no matter what Chez said it wasn't going to stick. I went to bed knowing it was highly possible for chez to die. mistake 3. Going over all the possible scenarios, it was an extremely easy decision to hit mikey then vig chez if necessary. You keep playing under the assumption that killing all claimers is the best way to go about it and that's made you make many mistakes this game. What is this bs? Can you list all the possible scenarios? The only claimer I wanted to kill was Judge. He lied, he had a plan, and it was on a role that couldn't be verified. Whether I'm town or Mafia why in the hell would I want him in a leadership role? So all in all I think we did well considering the town had 0 clue what was going on, and it was Malongo's play and Chez's Ids that got the game sealed away. The town was making mistake after mistake and before this time frame no one was doing anything.
The best players will make you think they played like shit and just get lucky while in reality, they're so many levels ahead of you that you can't begin to comprehend what they're thinking. Your continual cries to lynch the claimer hurt you badly because everyone could ignore you instead of having to respond to constructive play.
Amazing, because the best players this game were 2, possibly even a 3rd person no one would have expected. Don't even try to post drivel like this and make it sound like there was some major mind game going on here. There was no major comprehension that was missing at all this game - everyone was playing screwy and letting things that normally would lead to death, like lying, just go. The site Judge even plays on his this in plain sight. Then again you can just ask other Mafia players on this forum that didn't play but watched this game what they think. Either way I had fun this game but in no way should anyone think Medic claims on Day 1 is some brilliant strategy that only Einstein could come up with - especially when it didn't even help you win.
I followed the game relatively closely from the outside (so I can only give analysis on the thread itself) and can write up my thoughts about the game if anyone is interested. Let me know if anyone cares.
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Yeah, I think it has always been instantly get your info, although I guess just like mafia hits you could argue that the DT's start their investigation and get their results by morning, but I am cool either way. I think it would make DT's weaker and make the DT and the Vigi not able to act at the exact same time like we saw earlier even though these didn't directly effect each other because Zato didn't use any of Chezinu's info.
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On January 12 2010 02:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Yeah, I think it has always been instantly get your info, although I guess just like mafia hits you could argue that the DT's start their investigation and get their results by morning, but I am cool either way. I think it would make DT's weaker and make the DT and the Vigi not able to act at the exact same time like we saw earlier even though these didn't directly effect each other because Zato didn't use any of Chezinu's info.
However, that ability has made a difference in the past. In particular, it mattered when DTs could rolecheck during the day and we got roleclaims right away (usually resulting in Ace dying). When you throw in Vigis or any other way to make night kills, the principle still holds. It's just a gameplay choice.
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Yea Qatol I don't mind your input. Whether you agree with me or not I read your posts anyway ^_^
and for all those who think I'm in the wrong here's another take on the situation:
Lynch All Liars
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On January 12 2010 02:47 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 18:29 Ace wrote:On January 11 2010 18:15 Vivi57 wrote:The minute Judge claimed Medic I was expecting a town lynch. It was actually the perfect reaction no matter what role I had : any Day 1 claims especially something that can't be proven should be looked at as a Mafia ploy. We've been through this like almost every game but it's impossible to know when the town is thinking straight.
wrong. there's very little to gain from lynching judge at that point
No it's right. We know he's lying. Its no longer even a question of "oh gee why would Mafia do that?!". You don't know what the Mafia knows. You don't know if someone slipped up some info in PMs. It comes down to is this guy lying or not? And townies that lie aren't going to get you very far. This very game showed you that because for all the praise of Judge's plan it didn't even come through.
I immediately told Incognito to make me a Medic and I started accusing Judge. Even with Judge's bad play I was hoping I'd get DT checked. Amazingly I didn't, nor did Judge. This was my alibi for calling Judge out - I knew he was lying not only because it was a dumb move but because I was the real medic.
mistake 2. We agreed that judge would turn up blue whether he was gf medic or vet. We were wrong, but there was still a 100% chance he wouldn't turn up red. We also knew that if you were mafia, you'd be gf so checking you was stupid.
Wrong again. You have NO idea about anything relating to Judge. Nothing. There was no one connected to Judge in any way. All you know is this: Judge claimed Medic on Day 1. Stop trying to make it sound like there was some hidden condition by which Judge had to be innocent. There isn't one. You also didn't know I was GF. This is the same logic that was used last game I was Mafia and look what happened then. Chezinu role claims the next day, and then Zato does right after. This was SWEET for us because no matter what Chez said it wasn't going to stick. I went to bed knowing it was highly possible for chez to die. mistake 3. Going over all the possible scenarios, it was an extremely easy decision to hit mikey then vig chez if necessary. You keep playing under the assumption that killing all claimers is the best way to go about it and that's made you make many mistakes this game. What is this bs? Can you list all the possible scenarios? The only claimer I wanted to kill was Judge. He lied, he had a plan, and it was on a role that couldn't be verified. Whether I'm town or Mafia why in the hell would I want him in a leadership role? So all in all I think we did well considering the town had 0 clue what was going on, and it was Malongo's play and Chez's Ids that got the game sealed away. The town was making mistake after mistake and before this time frame no one was doing anything.
The best players will make you think they played like shit and just get lucky while in reality, they're so many levels ahead of you that you can't begin to comprehend what they're thinking. Your continual cries to lynch the claimer hurt you badly because everyone could ignore you instead of having to respond to constructive play.
Amazing, because the best players this game were 2, possibly even a 3rd person no one would have expected. Don't even try to post drivel like this and make it sound like there was some major mind game going on here. There was no major comprehension that was missing at all this game - everyone was playing screwy and letting things that normally would lead to death, like lying, just go. The site Judge even plays on his this in plain sight. Then again you can just ask other Mafia players on this forum that didn't play but watched this game what they think. Either way I had fun this game but in no way should anyone think Medic claims on Day 1 is some brilliant strategy that only Einstein could come up with - especially when it didn't even help you win. I followed the game relatively closely from the outside (so I can only give analysis on the thread itself) and can write up my thoughts about the game if anyone is interested. Let me know if anyone cares.
I'd love to hear your viewpoint on the game.
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Seconded on hearing Qatol's point of view.
In my opinion it wasn't too difficult to find Mikey, Ace, and Nemy this game.
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Yeah, that's typically why you don't want to have every mafia member agreeing with each other and voting similarly and producing no content and starting fights.
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We agreed with each other? when?
MM and nemy weren't even starting fights so I don't know where you got that from.
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When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that.
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You have to remember when I pushed for Chez's lynch MM was just being put into the limelight. It was a tie vote with no discussion going on and then I missed the rest of the game.
nemy played it solid. It made no sense to not push to lynch the claimer because it was the most pro-town play at the moment. Either way you never saw any of us going around agreeing with each other on everything all game. Remember from the outside looking in we all came off as pro-town so it doesn't even matter if you get a feeling we agreed.
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On January 12 2010 04:15 Ace wrote:Yea Qatol I don't mind your input. Whether you agree with me or not I read your posts anyway ^_^ and for all those who think I'm in the wrong here's another take on the situation: Lynch All Liars
Liar!
On May 01 2009 14:05 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2009 13:49 Qatol wrote:
I didn't want to post this right now because talking about me is unimportant to night actions. However, you just won't let the issue go. Ace, for the last time
1. VERSATILE CALLED YOU OUT
2. SHE FLIPPED BLUE
3. SHE KNOWS YOU BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THIS GAME
4. THEREFORE YOU ARE A SUSPECT
How hard is that to understand?
Um...Versatile has never been able to catch my playing style. How can you go off of that bs info like that guarantees I'm mafia? So someone says "hey I know how this guy plays, I think he's mafia", then dies flips innocent and then we all go OH SHIT THEY WERE RIGHT!? No. Mafia doesn't work like that. Versatile's death has no bearings on my status because ding - she can't possibly know my role because she wasn't a DT. This post right here just cements you as guilty. The town doesn't learn anything from Versatile's death - why? Because she is connected with no one. We actually learned more about you because you vote switched to try and appear siding with the town. Hi, Mr. Mafia want some pie? as for the rest - tl;dr. I'm also no longer responding to posts that try to make something out that isn't there. Ace's list of people who are invisible posters... Qatol (he's mafia, I don't talk to mafia people)
In all seriousness, I'll write something up in a few hours when I get home and have access to the logs of my conversations with Ver, just to make sure I don't forget anything.
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It made no sense to not push to lynch the claimer because it was the most pro-town play at the moment. Wrong. I don't even see how you can say this with a straight face. If Chez was a DT: free kill. If Chez was mafia, we vig hit him the same night. The only reason you'd hit chez first is because you want to kill the DT as mafia.
I mean, this was pretty transperant, check the vote list.
The reason we've used 'lynch the claimer' in the past was because we had large underground confirmed townie groups in certain games and we wanted to dissuade mafia from faking DT. That simply doesn't apply here; mafia can't trade 1 for 1 starting on day 2 and hope to succeed.
Remember from the outside looking in we all came off as pro-town so it doesn't even matter if you get a feeling we agreed. No, you didn't look pro town. Why do you think you three were chain killed? Magic? Clairvoyance?
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On January 12 2010 05:52 L wrote:Show nested quote + It made no sense to not push to lynch the claimer because it was the most pro-town play at the moment. Wrong. I don't even see how you can say this with a straight face. If Chez was a DT: free kill. If Chez was mafia, we vig hit him the same night. The only reason you'd hit chez first is because you want to kill the DT as mafia. I mean, this was pretty transperant, check the vote list. The reason we've used 'lynch the claimer' in the past was because we had large underground confirmed townie groups in certain games and we wanted to dissuade mafia from faking DT. That simply doesn't apply here; mafia can't trade 1 for 1 starting on day 2 and hope to succeed.
I thought we were talking about Judge here?
We use lynch the claimer all the time when the claimer can't be confirmed (almost always on Day 1) because it dissuades Mafia from claiming on Day 1. It's a general metagame strategy that you'll find everywhere.
Show nested quote +Remember from the outside looking in we all came off as pro-town so it doesn't even matter if you get a feeling we agreed. No, you didn't look pro town. Why do you think you three were chain killed? Magic? Clairvoyance?
We did look Pro-town. If we didn't how come none of you pinned us on Day 2 with the exception of Chez and Zato? Oh right, all those "this game is weird, the town seems lost, wtf is going on" references clearly made it obvious we were easily spotted. Right.
Amazing how after the game everyone seems to say they were right all along but during the game barely any of you could get anything going. How about you just give Chez, Zato and Malongo the credit for winning the game? If we were so easily Mafia looking you should have had us Vigi'd on Night 1 but instead you sitting there asking for RoL to be lynched. You were just as lost as the rest of the town.
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Ace babbling is hilarious.
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Judge trying to implement plans the very site he plays on says is bad is really hilarious.
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On January 12 2010 06:48 Ace wrote:
Judge trying to implement plans the very site he plays on says is bad is really hilarious.
Mmm.. where did you see that? Yes, some players disagreed with the plans. Of course I do more than read the threads there - I talk to a number of the better players there - this was one of my conversations as soon as I knew this game was going down.
BTW - that site doesn't have broken games with no way to keep PRs in check. So that's why someone disapproved of it there, it's not nearly as powerful. There's no open communication, so no funneling roles, and half the time they don't have medic/dt combos because it is such a broken setup (but it's ok, I understand how shitty you are and you need to rely on it to actually look competent.)
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On January 12 2010 06:17 Ace wrote:
How about you just give Chez, Zato and Malongo the credit for winning the game? If we were so easily Mafia looking you should have had us Vigi'd on Night 1 but instead you sitting there asking for RoL to be lynched. You were just as lost as the rest of the town.
From the perspective of another outsider (much more casual than Qatol, who has both too much and not enough time on his hands ), I think Heavonearth did pretty well too. That list of players he posted on Day One correctly identified 2 out of 3 Mafia, which is impressive. Granted, his reasoning was mostly circumstantial and I partially suspect he posted it just to goad activity and responses, 0cz3c/Ver-style, rather than out of sincere, well-founded convictions. Still, I imagine that list was what got him killed.
Apropos, I thought it was strange that not many people seemed to go back and read Heavonearth's posts after he died, considering how many people agreed that Heavonearth was an unusual target for the Mafia. I remember L did say (in all caps) that people should go back and study Heavonearth's posts, and Scamp actually compiled all of Heavonearth's posts together. But I guess no one noticed the list or took it seriously. Still, I think Heavonearth deserves credit for spotting 2 Mafia so early, however he did it.
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But I guess no one noticed the list or took it seriously. That's not really true.
The game kinda didn't require us to do any forceful pinning work as town because the moment day 2 rolled around, all our lynches were set. I was going to push to have Ace and RoL killed, then Zato's like "lol i'll kill him for you", then chez ends the game.
It was more of an issue of no one needing to promote the list to get the kills we wanted.
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I guess the biggest question is: why did Chez pick Mikey and Nemy to check?
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On January 12 2010 11:02 Scamp wrote:
I guess the biggest question is: why did Chez pick Mikey and Nemy to check?
They must've looked the most suspicious from his research, which included their posts in the main thread plus his role fishing PMs.
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I had no sole reason, just a bunch of small reasons. nemY was a harder pick than mikey. I got lucky with him.
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Secretly I'm hoping he'll say: Scamp casually mentioned both of them in his posts, and that got me thinking along the same lines.
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hehe, I gave up waiting.
From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: I don't know..
Date: 1/12/10 11:58
Works for me. My secret desires are now revealed in the thread, too!
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Original Message:
I didn't check either of them for just one sole reason. I'm going to wait for Qatol's post to understand why Chezinu chose his suspects!
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On January 12 2010 11:58 Scamp wrote:
Secretly I'm hoping he'll say: Scamp casually mentioned both of them in his posts, and that got me thinking along the same lines.
Well, that depends...Are you going to play The Prism?
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Organization: I recommend you read this with another copy of the thread open in another window (so 2 windows open: this post and the thread). I went through the early part of the game post by post and posted my thought process. It will be easier for you to follow if you can just go back and forth.
I didn't really have enough time to actually play in this, so I treated it as a chance to work on my behavioral analysis abilities. You will notice that I stopped analyzing as hard about halfway through day 1, but by then I already had all of the mafia pinned, and Ver agreed with my analysis, so I was decently confident with my picks.
I will also note that Ver got a lot of his reads through different logic from me. He spends a lot more time looking at posting history. Either way, we felt darn good about our reads when we got the same results from different logic.
Many of my reads become redundant after a while, so I start skipping posts as I go along a bit. Please let me know if it is confusing which post I'm referring to. Also, I stop at the bottom of page 9 because around then I made a (correct) guess to Incognito about who the mafia were. Obviously, the stuff after that just served to give me more confidence about my picks, so I'm going to omit it. Also, this is just taking a long time.
+ Show Spoiler [Page 4] +
L: My first impressions are that he is accusing players and basically trying to take a leadership position in the town. This, in my experience, is a town-oriented move because it is ridiculously hard to keep up the illusion of innocence with the spotlight on you. In addition, L is going out on a limb and accusing people. Again, mafia are afraid of painting people because they tend to draw attention for starting bandwagons. I'm almost positive L is innocent at this point. However, I'll watch him a bit longer to see if he keeps it up, just to be sure.
Vivi: chiming-in post. I thought this was a bit suspicious because he doesn't really have much in the way of reasoning but the post tends to blend in.
Judge's roleclaim: Again, he's taking the spotlight. I honestly don't care if he is medic or not at this point. He's putting the spotlight on himself while not actually asking for any sort of power from the town. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that the mafia would risk their godfather on a move like this. Any other sort of mafia wouldn't pull a move like this. Basically, I would keep an eye on him moving forward (he's in the spotlight now and will slip up eventually if he's mafia), but for the most part, just ignore him. Instead, I'm watching who decides to bandwagon on him.
Judge's plan: I don't like his plan because I felt it wasted too much time. (At this point, I figured the town could only get away with 3 misses and the first day was almost certainly a miss. Missing another by getting Judge killed eliminates your leeway and I don't like that. The potential gain just isn't big enough.)
RoL/ scamp: Nothing posts. A bit suspicious.
Zato-1: Long posts defending Scamp/Vivi and attacking Chezinu. Probably town, but not enough to make a final conclusion. Mentally noting it for later.
+ Show Spoiler [Page 5] +Scamp: Folds after a light accusation - very suspicious. Ace: This post is totally out of character from what I expected from Ace. His last few games (not counting smurf which was weird, speed where he got a late start, or mafiya where he had a funky role), his posts have been things like: On October 21 2009 14:43 Ace wrote:
*yawn*
man it's that time again already?
<---running for mayor
<---going back to sleep [ On May 17 2009 02:25 Ace wrote:I was actually not doing anything because I was playing DOTA all night As for me, I'll announce my intention to be Mayor/Pardoner now. Besides the fact that I know I'm great at this game, know how to look at the big picture, and know how to read (^_^) let me just point out one more thing: I have the best SAVIOR sense out of anyone in the game. Easily. What this means is I can easily spot a bs bandwagon for an innocent player and follow the trail to mafia, or in other cases explain how a person is innocent or why they shouldn't die. In game 2 when the town wanted to lynch Ghar I professed he was most likely innocent - and he was. In the game where BC got the Village Idiot role and convinced people to lynch mikeymoo who was it that rose to his defense so strongly? me. Because I saw the true meaning behind the scenario. Remember last game? How I once again jumped to JeeJee's defense even though there was "evidence" and a big ass bandwagon against him? Yup, JeeJee was innocent too. How about that time in Tracil's game when I was a medic and saved NatsuTerran(the cop) on Day one with only 1 read of the game and no PMs? ^_^ See guys, I'm good at behavior analysis and seeing the game as one big puzzle. I don't jump to conclusions, I play with my head on straight, and I ALWAYS have a plan. Always. Oh yeah, and I'm usually persuasive. Right now the only candidate I think is right for the town is Mynock. Every game we've played we have been on the exact same page. He thinks just like I do and has an intuition for when there's bullshit afoot. However, Ver and BC would just as well get my vote if that were the only reason. So why then? Read his post: he is the only one that pointed out that the Mayor and Pardoner really are not that different.Whoever is running should be glad to get either so that once they are protected they can do some damage and not just sit around bulletproof. Both of those roles are powerful and the town needs them to win. With all that said, I'm hoping enough people vote for me. We all know how dangerous I can be in office to The Mafia. In this one, notice the difference in tone. He is angry at the people who got him lynched last game, but he doesn't have the "time to hunt mafia" attitude he had in the past few. When he's innocent, he knows that there is nothing the mafia can throw at him that will actually stick. He just doesn't have that confidence this game. Also notice that he isn't trying to take the spotlight. HIGHLY suspicious. Note for later that he calls out RoL, nemY, and vivi. Qatol: Blue like always L: continues to force discussion. He could let the thread stagnate, but he isn't letting it. Sure looks innocent to me. Ace: Gives an honest opinion. I think he would have posted like this regardless of role. He always jumps on roleclaimers. However, he still isn't trying to push into the spotlight. Scamp: FOrcing activity too. He also emphasizes that medics can protect themselves. This is a very major town read. Specifically, the mafia don't want to let the town know that this is a possibility just in case they aren't reading. Scamp looks pretty town to me at this point. Judge: Continues to sit in the spotlight, not actually asking the town to do anything. I like my read on him. L triple post: Continues to enjoy the limelight as well. I still like him for innocent. Mikeymoo: "confusion" post. Notice that this doesn't really contribute anything to the game. More on this later. Heavonearth: Seems confused by how the game started. However, his request that another medic cross-claim when there is at least a good possiblity that judge is not a medic (but is innocent) seems wrong to me. Generally, I expect the mafia to be more careful with their logic because you can get called on this kind of stuff and get in trouble. I'll look for how he reacts and assume he's innocent for now. nemY: Quickly jumps on the "lynch judge" bandwagon but again doesn't really add much in the way of content. His comment about rolechecks has been the case for several games now. I already had my eye on him and this post doesn't help him.
+ Show Spoiler [Page 6] +
L: obviously working with Judge by now. They both seem innocent to me.
Vivi: Another player I was looking at from Ace's post. This post is really a nothing post. He emphasizes inactivity just like Scamp and L have already done. I'm still looking hard at him.
Zato: He sticks his neck out to join the 2 that I think are innocent. I'm hoping this will put him into the spotlight so I can make a decision about him.
Mikeymoo: He's been pretty quiet this game so far. Again, this post doesn't contribute anything.
Malongo: Decides to step up and accuse RoL. He also makes claims about the alignment of L and Judge. I liked this move because it triggered a lot of posting, which I will talk about shortly.
+ Show Spoiler [Page 7] +
Ace: He continues on his "lynch all liars" movement. He will post like this regardless of role. (I see where he's coming from with it, though I believe he takes it a bit too far.) However, suspecting him based on this is a bad idea. The reason I mention this is because Ace works on undermining Zato's support of L and Judge, pushing him into the spotlight like I had hoped.
Zato: His post is entirely with the logic I have been using. This post cleared up a lot of doubt for me. Probably innocent. His conversation with RoL a bit later (again using logic just like mine) completely clears him for me.
RoL: Rant time, triggered by posts from Malongo and Ace. Amusingly, these rants basically clear him for me. Him raging at the town and not caring that he's in the spotlight pretty clearly tells me that he isn't afraid of looking like mafia. (He is quieter when mafia usually.) Additionally, I enjoyed his mouth plan.
+ Show Spoiler [Page 8] +
nemY: Continues to dig at Judge. Judge continues to stand strong. I'm still looking at nemY as suspicious.
Vivi: Finally takes a stand on something (Judge). Triggers a rant from Ace. I'm wondering if this is a ploy, but I still like nemY better than Vivi as mafia.
+ Show Spoiler [Page 9] +
Chezinu: Just like Foolishness and 0cz3c, people just don't read his posts because he has a bad reputation in some peoples' minds. I've noticed that he's quiet, but he doesn't seem to be connected to the mafia. As mafia, I would expect them to try and make him post more so they can use the "not posting" as ammunition because so many people are actively pushing that this game.
Ace: Minor quarrel with L.
Mikeymoo: This post basically sealed the deal for me with him. I already mentioned that he was posting, but not really putting any content into his posts. He just asked some questions. Well, he continued to do that. He isn't really committing to any sort of position with regards to.... anything. Also he is VERY emphatic about his confusion. This is classic mafia play.
Note where I am right now (bottom of page 9). I'm basically at the point where I have eliminated almost everyone from suspicion. Right now, I predict the mafia is Ace, Mikeymoo, and nemY with a possibility that Vivi is in there instead.
At this point, I'm convinced that RoL, scamp, Zato, Judge, and L are innocent.
Look at the players I haven't decided on yet (though I was leaning towards innocent on all of them): Malongo, Chezinu, and HeavOnEarth. Malongo dies pretty quickly after this and Chezinu flip flops a ton, actually making him less suspicious to me because he throws the spotlight upon himself and handles it. Also, he starts pushing for a lynch on a major suspect of mine: Mikeymoo. At the very least, I'll keep him alive based on that. When he DT claims, everything just fits. The best part about it is that if he ever gives the town someone who isn't mafia as "mafia," they kill him right away. If he's red, he is in a very tough position because he has become a town leader. HeavOnEarth didn't have to do much, but he cleared himself to me when he posted a list accusing the "less obvious" people I thought were mafia.
I would have finally secured nemY over Vivi during the lynch of Mikeymoo. Specifically, the vote was tied 3-3 between Chezinu and Mikeymoo and then Vivi comes in and casts another vote for Mikeymoo. Right after that, nemY casts a totally random vote for Judge.
I also loved Malongo's decision to just let himself die rather than trigger a no lynch day 1. The problem with the no lynch is that the town doesn't get any sort of direction with this. It triggers a day 1 all over again.
Other things to note: Dreamflower was totally right about HeavOnEarth's post. The mafia list jumped out at me because 2 of those people were on my personal list. When he died right after that, it lent even more weight to the idea that nemY was more suspicious than vivi.
I thought this game had too many blue roles. Additionally, there was WAY too much blue power. In particular, I think the Vigilante is the most powerful blue role when used properly. Yet it was placed with 2 other blue roles in the game? I was pretty shocked by that.
EDIT: added spoilers to improve readability
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There, post done. Hope it lived up to expectations.
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On January 12 2010 11:59 Chezinu wrote:
hehe, I gave up waiting.
From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: I don't know..
Date: 1/12/10 11:58
Works for me. My secret desires are now revealed in the thread, too!
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
I didn't check either of them for just one sole reason. I'm going to wait for Qatol's post to understand why Chezinu chose his suspects!
Mmmm I'm not so sure Chezinu's process was exactly the same as mine.
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On January 12 2010 13:03 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 11:59 Chezinu wrote:
hehe, I gave up waiting.
From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: I don't know..
Date: 1/12/10 11:58
Works for me. My secret desires are now revealed in the thread, too!
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
I didn't check either of them for just one sole reason. I'm going to wait for Qatol's post to understand why Chezinu chose his suspects! Mmmm I'm not so sure Chezinu's process was exactly the same as mine.
Yeah, I don't read the thread that much...I use pm's then glance over thread and look at the list of players. I don't think that much, hehe.
edit: I also look at voting - that's where I make most of my decisions.
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On January 12 2010 13:21 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 13:03 Qatol wrote:On January 12 2010 11:59 Chezinu wrote:
hehe, I gave up waiting.
From: Scamp [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: I don't know..
Date: 1/12/10 11:58
Works for me. My secret desires are now revealed in the thread, too!
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
I didn't check either of them for just one sole reason. I'm going to wait for Qatol's post to understand why Chezinu chose his suspects! Mmmm I'm not so sure Chezinu's process was exactly the same as mine. Yeah, I don't read the thread that much...I use pm's then glance over thread and look at the list of players. I don't think that much, hehe. edit: I also look at voting - that's where I make most of my decisions.
Okay we at least have voting in common. There isn't much of that in this analysis because I got to this point before the voting closed, but I usually like to use it to get reads later in the game.
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On January 12 2010 12:58 Qatol wrote:
There, post done. Hope it lived up to expectations.
it was nice ^^
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On January 12 2010 05:10 L wrote:
When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that.
You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC
Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future .
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Not picking me out was probably better for you Since hitting me would of wasted a hit. But I will say that I would of attacked Judge just as hard either way. His plan would create confusion and chaos in the town later on as his plan fell apart since no smart DT would check someone who claims to have a plan when there is a godfather who can fake the role. It seems like a waste of power.
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On January 12 2010 16:22 nemY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 05:10 L wrote:
When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that. You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future .
Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey.
You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move.
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L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting.
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On January 13 2010 01:10 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 16:22 nemY wrote:On January 12 2010 05:10 L wrote:
When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that. You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future . Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey. You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move.
Lynching Judge had nothing to do with not liking him, stop making that up. We know he was lying because Day 1 medic claims are almost always a lie or at the very least bad. From a town perspective it made sense to get rid of him. It's that simple.
*nods @ Qatol's analysis: I tried to play a laid back, nonforceful role because people bitch and moan when I yell at them. Looking at this game they still bitch and moan though. Guess I just have that effect on people ^_^
*nods @ Dreamflower: yea I forgot to include HoE. I don't think anyone would have believed his post (yay I guessed right) partially because the tone it was posted with wasn't a confirmation but more of a hunch.
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Dammit Qatol, your post makes me feel like a noob at this game
Very good analysis, I'll re-read it and pages 4-9 to see if I can learn a thing or two :p
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Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. No they aren't. If you aren't terrible, you'd have been able to figure out what judge was from his claim, which leads to reasons for not killing him. No one was confused besides you, because you were the medic. Again, go look at the vote list. Its you and the entire mafia team against pretty much every other voting townie. The ones that didn't vote for either option voted for mikey.
Lynching Judge had nothing to do with not liking him, stop making that up. We know he was lying because Day 1 medic claims are almost always a lie or at the very least bad. From a town perspective it made sense to get rid of him. No, it didn't. The concept behind lynching liars is that they create confusion and disrupt the town's progress. In the current instance, the lie pretty much solidified all of the town into a rather transperant group and let us get reads on the majority of players.
If we had something alternative, like a mayoral race to talk about day 1, sure you might be right. If we had someone claiming detective so that he could become mayor and therefore not be checkable (LIKE YOU DID) that would be fishy. If someone, however, is making a claim which doesn't benefit him to enact a plan wherein the claimee kills himself, its pretty fucking obvious that he's not mafia.
The timing of the claim came nearly immediately, far before mafia is typically able to organize onto IRC or msn, and the claim had no benefit for mafia if it was tweaked a bit.
So why would we kill him? You can say LaL all you want, but there's a GOAL to LaL. If that GOAL isn't satisfied, then it isn't useful. Frankly, I've found the rule far more useful as mafia to get you and like 3 other detectives killed on day 1 than to keep the town in working order.
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On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting.
You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed.
You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1.
That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1.
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On January 13 2010 01:10 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 16:22 nemY wrote:On January 12 2010 05:10 L wrote:
When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that. You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future . Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey. You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move.
Uhhh, where did I say he was someone I didn't like? I said his play (from a townie's perspective) was dumb. Everyone knew he wasn't medic. Trying to disregard that I was mafia and think like a townie (which is somewhat difficult when you have so much inside information obv) I put Judge from a Vet at best to GF at worst, hence why I pushed for his lynch.
Regardless of my role next game, if someone role claims Day 1, I'm going to push for their lynch again.
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On January 13 2010 04:49 nemY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 01:10 L wrote:On January 12 2010 16:22 nemY wrote:On January 12 2010 05:10 L wrote:
When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that. You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future . Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey. You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move. Uhhh, where did I say he was someone I didn't like? I said his play (from a townie's perspective) was dumb. Everyone knew he wasn't medic. Trying to disregard that I was mafia and think like a townie (which is somewhat difficult when you have so much inside information obv) I put Judge from a Vet at best to GF at worst, hence why I pushed for his lynch. Regardless of my role next game, if someone role claims Day 1, I'm going to push for their lynch again.
Generally when you paint someone like that, you probably want to just scrutinize that player. Push at them, but you don't actually want to get them killed, especially since there was literally no gain for Judge in making the claim that he made when he did it. All he wanted was a rolecheck thrown in his direction. I mean, I guess a godfather could be that blatant, but that is just about the riskiest move I could ever think of to try and pull as a godfather. Godfathers are far better served by detectives deciding of their own free will to rolecheck rather than vice versa.
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On January 13 2010 03:43 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 01:10 L wrote:On January 12 2010 16:22 nemY wrote:On January 12 2010 05:10 L wrote:
When did you try to accuse either mm or nemy, or when did they try to significantly play against you? nemY and you were united on the most important issue of the game as well; the issue of whether or lynch claimers. This should have been a huge portion of your strategy this game; there's no kp loss for sacrificing a member.
Your main mistake, however, was trying to push for chez's lynch prior to mikey when we had a vig hit up. There was no logical basis for that. You know something though L? Even if I had been townie, I still would have pushed for Judge's death from the start. You guys can say I was in alliance with Ace all you want, but I tbh I tried hard to play this game from a townie's perspective and whether or not I was a townie, allowing ppl to role claim right off the start is just plain dumb. Especially when I am 99% sure Judge WAS NOT THE MEDIC Regardless, it was still fun;This game was definitely a change up from the previous mafia games I've played (think of the previous big games with lots of ppl I've played in) and I feel like I learned some things (in hindsight not picking out RoL as the true medic was pretty FAIL on our part), that will help me be a better mafia in the future . Lynches aren't for killing people you don't like. They're for killing mafia. Unless you thought judge was mafia, there was no reason to hit him, much like there was no reason to hit chez prior to mikey. You guys are using a shorthand solution from arguments we've had in other formats to justify a very poor move. Lynching Judge had nothing to do with not liking him, stop making that up. We know he was lying because Day 1 medic claims are almost always a lie or at the very least bad. From a town perspective it made sense to get rid of him. It's that simple. *nods @ Qatol's analysis: I tried to play a laid back, nonforceful role because people bitch and moan when I yell at them. Looking at this game they still bitch and moan though. Guess I just have that effect on people ^_^ *nods @ Dreamflower: yea I forgot to include HoE. I don't think anyone would have believed his post (yay I guessed right) partially because the tone it was posted with wasn't a confirmation but more of a hunch.
I was wondering about that actually, if the new role was deliberate because it was SO out of character for you. Either way, it put you pretty squarely on my radar and you didn't really do anything to take yourself off.
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I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling).
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On January 13 2010 07:46 Malongo wrote:
I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling).
I don't think you did. From what I could tell, you were lynched because you were inactive in comparison to everyone else.
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On January 13 2010 08:02 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 07:46 Malongo wrote:
I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling). I don't think you did. From what I could tell, you were lynched because you were inactive in comparison to everyone else.
yeah but zato-1, lawl was so sure i was making good/bad sides (in fact: yeah bro i was giving you the "good side"). From an outsider perspective this is what i wrote to Ace in pm *brag*brag*:
To: Ace [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: lolololol
Date: 1/9/10 16:14
I had about 2/3 theories about mafia gaming plan. The most solid included a first player going full into my defense once some votes piled on me (i mean not defending me directly but making big notes about how stupid was to lynch me). So i had Ace/MM in that spot. The second guy was one of the flip floppers Chezinu/Scamp with Scamp being the most likely choice (related to a couple of posts on me). Last guy in my carpet was one of the quiet guys (i put nemy on that spot).
The other theories involved more inactive mafia but that was not really likely in a small game (but still possible) or a full crazy mafia with a sacrifice on the judge first move (but again too risky in a small game).
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On January 13 2010 07:46 Malongo wrote:
I still dont understand how i convinced people i was mafia lol.... *sigh* (martyr feeling).
You didn't at all. I was pretty sure you weren't blue, and I couldn't save judge by getting anyone else killed.
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On January 13 2010 04:23 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting. You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed. You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1. That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1.
We never knew his plan, thus we could never know he wanted death. Plus his death would be by like Day 3 or something anyway. In Judge's case, I wanted the confusion and doubt out of the way. As I say, I view lying as a mafia ploy 99% of the time, Judge was the 1% exception.
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On January 13 2010 23:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 04:23 L wrote:On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting. You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed. You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1. That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1. We never knew his plan, thus we could never know he wanted death. Plus his death would be by like Day 3 or something anyway. In Judge's case, I wanted the confusion and doubt out of the way. As I say, I view lying as a mafia ploy 99% of the time, Judge was the 1% exception.
I told you he could be confirmed 100% and also told you there was no way to confirm him using his medic protection or DTs. That would leave him vig hitting someone or being killed as the only methods of confirmation.
Why do you think I kept telling you to think about it?
Also, your 99%/1% scenario is interesting. So far, every day 1 claim has been 100% town BECAUSE of the risk to mafia garnered by our heavy metagaming of claims. While I understand the prophylactic effect on subsequent games, I rather wanted to win this one because I kinda gave up early on the last one and tried to blow myself up.
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On January 14 2010 04:15 L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2010 23:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On January 13 2010 04:23 L wrote:On January 13 2010 03:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
L lynches are also a means to verify information. The reason I wanted to lynch Judge was obviously because I knew he was lying and because it creates more confusion then leadership. I said Day 1 how if we don't kill him then he will be a nuisance later on. I like to think there are certain ways to do things that generally help the town and others that don't. I think lying is strait bad for the town, regardless of whether or not its for the greater good or not. When you lie you create distrust and chaos and cause the town to lose focus. This benefits mafia, no plan should involve lying.
Day 1 RC's are just really really fucking annoying. Especially with a GF. The plan Judge had was pretty simple, but he kept it a secret, used a role claim that was undoubtedly a lie and asked for a DT to check him. The DT had no reason to check him since GF was in the game, so it just kind of stalled the town for no reason at all.
The other thing is any plan should remain simple. Simple plans that are easily understood benefit the town. Overly complex plans that hinge on too many things happening leave more room for error and make it so the mafia is able to mess with a plan more than should be possible.
That's kind of about it. I think I need to do more behavioral analysis in games though when it comes to role claims and stuff and stop getting caught up so much on the move itself as how the person is acting. You don't gain any additional information by killing someone who's asking to be killed. You can be excused because you were the medic and obviously went a bit batshit insane early game, but Ace is a strong enough player to see why we wouldn't kill someone like that on day 1. That expectation of Ace is why a bunch of us were talking behind the scenes about killing him from midway through day 1. We never knew his plan, thus we could never know he wanted death. Plus his death would be by like Day 3 or something anyway. In Judge's case, I wanted the confusion and doubt out of the way. As I say, I view lying as a mafia ploy 99% of the time, Judge was the 1% exception. I told you he could be confirmed 100% and also told you there was no way to confirm him using his medic protection or DTs. That would leave him vig hitting someone or being killed as the only methods of confirmation. Why do you think I kept telling you to think about it? Also, your 99%/1% scenario is interesting. So far, every day 1 claim has been 100% town BECAUSE of the risk to mafia garnered by our heavy metagaming of claims. While I understand the prophylactic effect on subsequent games, I rather wanted to win this one because I kinda gave up early on the last one and tried to blow myself up.
Which, amusingly, didn't happen only because RoL blocked the bomb.
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That game was hilarious in retrospect.
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On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect.
I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol.
That game was just funny.
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lol yeah that game was hilarious. I remember someone saying that the mafia seemed so fucked that the only reason they would stay is if somehow they still had hope from having really good positions.
IE GF coverage on you and Pyrr having been elected.
lol@game
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On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny.
Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper.
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On January 15 2010 07:55 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect. I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny. Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper.
I messaged all of them on Day 1.
I got MSNs for L and Pyrry. Pyrry and I discussed random shit about nothing, except he was running for office. L and I decided he should be GF because Pyrry was getting the office.
Chez PMed me once saying he was alone. Then after someone had apparently claimed to him, I PMed him asking for info and he was like "I can't tell you, you might be mafia"
There was no communication going on at all that game.
Then I got bombed on my birthday. Fuckin' gay lol.
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On January 15 2010 08:24 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2010 07:55 Qatol wrote:On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect. I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny. Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper. I messaged all of them on Day 1. I got MSNs for L and Pyrry. Pyrry and I discussed random shit about nothing, except he was running for office. L and I decided he should be GF because Pyrry was getting the office. Chez PMed me once saying he was alone. Then after someone had apparently claimed to him, I PMed him asking for info and he was like "I can't tell you, you might be mafia" There was no communication going on at all that game. Then I got bombed on my birthday. Fuckin' gay lol.
Now you're making dreamflower feel guilty! She thought you said it was okay!
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On January 15 2010 09:00 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2010 08:24 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 15 2010 07:55 Qatol wrote:On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect. I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny. Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper. I messaged all of them on Day 1. I got MSNs for L and Pyrry. Pyrry and I discussed random shit about nothing, except he was running for office. L and I decided he should be GF because Pyrry was getting the office. Chez PMed me once saying he was alone. Then after someone had apparently claimed to him, I PMed him asking for info and he was like "I can't tell you, you might be mafia" There was no communication going on at all that game. Then I got bombed on my birthday. Fuckin' gay lol. Now you're making dreamflower feel guilty! She thought you said it was okay!
Haha she's not at fault. I blame Ace, actually, for R/Cing me and calling me out as a medic. It seems to be a common pattern:
If there is belief that I am a medic, I am not a medic. LOL.
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On January 15 2010 09:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2010 09:00 Qatol wrote:On January 15 2010 08:24 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 15 2010 07:55 Qatol wrote:On January 14 2010 12:15 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:On January 14 2010 10:20 L wrote:
That game was hilarious in retrospect. I remember Ver asking if we were serious about our disorganization lol. That game was just funny. Umm Chezinu asked me 1. who the godfather was and 2. who your hits were for night 1. We couldn't believe you guys weren't talking that kind of stuff out among yourselves. Especially #2 because Chezinu was supposed to be your bluesniper. I messaged all of them on Day 1. I got MSNs for L and Pyrry. Pyrry and I discussed random shit about nothing, except he was running for office. L and I decided he should be GF because Pyrry was getting the office. Chez PMed me once saying he was alone. Then after someone had apparently claimed to him, I PMed him asking for info and he was like "I can't tell you, you might be mafia" There was no communication going on at all that game. Then I got bombed on my birthday. Fuckin' gay lol. Now you're making dreamflower feel guilty! She thought you said it was okay! Haha she's not at fault. I blame Ace, actually, for R/Cing me and calling me out as a medic. It seems to be a common pattern: If there is belief that I am a medic, I am not a medic. LOL.
Dunno, it got you, a mafia, bombed day 2. Seems like a pretty good move for a pro-town player.
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