EPTYeah some of Bang's plays were very questionable. Actually, the whole team played in this tournament below of what we're used to see from SKT. Their vision game was atrocious.
Samsung win the 2017 World Championship! - Page 93
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Join the LiquidLegends 2017 Worlds Pick'em Group! Ban bets!! Ban bets will continue for the duration of Worlds. You can place bet at any phase of Worlds; on individual games, series, whatever your heart desires. Bans will be enacted the day after Worlds ends, to ensure everyone can still post on LL while Worlds is ongoing. glhf~ - Winners in bold - better, better's win condition, bettee [ban duration for loser] - Yorbon, EDG fails to make it out of groups, vs DarkCore [1 week] - Sleight, Fnatic doesn't make it out of groups, vs AlterKot [2:1 weeks] - Apex, Gigabyte getting out of groups as a 1st place seed + TSM will finish 1st in their groups + Samsung will fail to qualify from their group + C9 will get out of their groups, vs JimmiC [1 week] - geript, Korean teams will win a combined 17 or more games in Groups, vs Gahlo [1 month] - geript, NA teams will win a combined 7 or less games in Groups, vs Torchise [1 month] - zer0das, SKT doesn't win Worlds, vs no one [1 year] - Zato-1, NA teams combined wins will be greater than or equal to EU teams combined wins, vs Yorbon [1 month] | ||
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Sent.
Poland9198 Posts
Yeah some of Bang's plays were very questionable. Actually, the whole team played in this tournament below of what we're used to see from SKT. Their vision game was atrocious. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Poor Faker. I turned off the stream at 3 AM, seconds before the nexus exploded but I heard he cried in his chair (Rekkles?), with people saying this was the most emotion we've seen from Faker ever. Somehow, even after 4 years of competitive play, months in and months out, Faker shows no signs of slowly down. So I guess the real question is, where does he go from here? With some interviews shining some light on his personality and thought process, I'm sure he blames himself the most for getting caught out by Ruler's Flash/ulti. Huni is a mistake. I was surprised SKT didn't pick up ssumday at the start of 2017 but I wanted to trust in kkoma. But with the season over and now looking back, Huni's glaring weaknesses always outweighed his strengths. Ultimately, Huni was just super one faceted: split pushing. I thought CuVee was amazing back during LCK summer and he continued to perform, all the way to World Finals, culminating with taking the mantle from Smeb this year. CuVee's a sound 60/40 split push/team fighting, compared to Huni's 90/10. Huni's 90/10 would be ok if SKT played around it more smoothly but too often it looked way too forced, resulting in Huni getting picked off in a side lane, leading to SKT losing all momentum. I hope SKT builds more on Untara. I'm sure there will be carry Top metas in 2018 but I feel like it's easier to teach Untara how to play carry Tops more than it is to refine Huni's stubborn playstyle. Peanut is a lesser mistake. Listening to Papa talk on The Dive about how Peanut functioned on ROX, it's undoubtedly a huge change in playstyle to go from ROX to SKT, where he was once the primary proactive player on the team, to become a reactive one on SKT. He hasn't transitioned well and after a year, Peanut and SKT have the time to reassess how Peanut can fit into the roster in 2018. Download memes aside, I def think having your sub in the Jungler position is incredibly useful. But it's less useful if you consistently go 0-2 down with your first Jungler. If Blank is considered Bengi 2.0 and anchors as the second Jungler on the team, SKT doesn't need Peanut being Bengi Lite. I don't think SKT's jungle system is bad but it definitely needs refinement and it'll depend on if Peanut is willing to play "herbivore" again next year and he has to do it better than this year by far. Also, I want to say on a side note, why anyone is giving Peanut shit for joining SKT is beyond me. Everyone is chasing after championships. Somehow joining the reigning champions is an embarrassment but let's not talk about the super team that couldn't even make it to Worlds. Don't forget who was the first player to decide to leave ROX. The other four players had to find a new team, so why grieve Peanut for earning his spot on SKT. Lastly, I'll end with Bang. He's my favorite player on SKT so I can admit I was biased in his favor throughout the year. If people who touted PraY as the best ADC in the world then caught flak after LZ got 0-3, then worse should happen to Bang fans. I never thought Bang was the best ADC in KR but I hoped he'd be at least top 3. But after this year, that idea has pretty much dissipated. Bang actually played worse this year than Ruler did last year, during Ruler's rookie season. That's fucking atrocious. I know Bang suffered from a lot of drama and issues from outside the game but it ultimately took a toll on him from LCK Summer playoffs on. He was the biggest liability in the end, considering how much SKT depends on him as a veteran, and doubly so in this Censer/ADC meta. I think in regards to future talks about best ADC in KR, 2017 has tainted Bang's legacy in an incredibly detrimental way. But for SKT's sake and his own, I hope he can still bounce back next year. Congrats to Samsung Galaxy, Ansi, and all SSG fans. I'll enact the ban bets some time this weekend. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
It’s also worthwhile to note that jungle doesn’t favor Peanut right now and hasn’t for a bit. Spring split he looked much better. I think Peanut can work for SKT, but it won’t be an always thing and will depend on how jungle-top favors his play style. SKT Huni has always been a mistake. I’m curious as to how much SKT will look to change in their bot lane because of Bang/wolf overall looking worse for worlds and most of the last split. I’m unsure how much of that is SKT focusing less on bot lane, meta discouraging engage supports (other than Rakan), and how much is in decreased skill or burnout for SKT botlane. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9198 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 05 2017 05:59 Sent. wrote: Ohh I almost forgot. Big thanks to whoever stopped changing the thread's name to a spoiler. I avoided the site whole day because I woke up late and expected spoilers here, but now I can at least have hope I won't have to do that during the next tournament. That's still the norm, at least by TL standards. It's more that xes is at a convention atm and Ads prob forgot. It should've been changed but I CBA'd about it either. Just fyi. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35150 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Swap in Untara, I don't think he could edge out CuVee in a way that'd counterbalance SKT's Bot lane struggles. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35150 Posts
On November 05 2017 06:52 NeoIllusions wrote: I disagree. CuVee won his matchups against Huni rather consistently but in the Finals alone, Huni wasn't the catalyst in SKT losing any of the three games. Bang was a bigger culprit. Swap in Untara, I don't think he could edge out CuVee in a way that'd counterbalance SKT's Bot lane struggles. It's not about Untara beating Cuvee. Both of them lose to Cuvee. Untara's playstyle is better for bailing out their botlane. Huni plays super forward and relies on being more selfish with his TP. You can't do both and stabalize the duo as a top laner unless you're playing something like Shen. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 05 2017 07:11 Gahlo wrote: It's not about Untara beating Cuvee. Both of them lose to Cuvee. Untara's playstyle is better for bailing out their botlane. Huni plays super forward and relies on being more selfish with his TP. You can't do both and stabalize the duo as a top laner unless you're playing something like Shen. And I'm saying, there's not much to stabilize if you looked at Bot lane's performance yesterday. Untara did as expected (supportive Top, even mostly on Shen) to prop up Bang/Wolf during LCK Finals against LZ and that didn't amount to anything. I doubt Untara's supportive Top would've fared better vs SSG on the biggest stage, when it failed miserably against LZ. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
untara makes no difference here botlane fucked up on their lonesome and untara would be pressured too hard to even do anything | ||
Poopi
France12884 Posts
I don't follow LoL (or bareeely) except a bit during MSI and the interesting matches at World, but I liked very much the idea of SKT winning over and over again with Faker somehow staying the "best player in the world" (in spite of being a team game). I found that SKT looked less dominant in their matches against Misfits and RNG than what they looked like in 2015 (I watched the whole fnatic run and the final that season, they looked super dominant) and 2016 (the win was closer but I found SSG that year stronger than 2015 ROX so SKT winning was still impressive!), but since they were able to clutch the ace games, I hoped for a switch back to SKT invincible form in the finals... Oh boy was I wrong. I slept during the first two games because of sc2 Blizzcon ro8 finishing late, so I was only able to see SKT seemingly dominate the third game but losing their lead into a crushing defeat... SSG were definitely stronger these worlds so it's nice to see them win, but I'm sadder to see SKT being the shadow of themselves. Hopefully they can come back stronger next year, probably with another botlane / top ? | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On November 05 2017 06:44 Gahlo wrote: My hot take: SKT wins Worlds if they brought Untara. I don't think SKT would have won worlds with this roster, but I do feel like playing out the majority of the summer season with Untara/Blank and then taking Huni/Peanut to Worlds isn't a particularly good plan either. This was probably the worst I've seen Bang play though and it really wasn't excusable, I'm not sure what I think about Wolf this tournament. I'm so happy Samsung managed to win Worlds again, it's really crazy how SKT/Samsung are the only Korean orgs that have. Hopefully the team doesn't break up and have to rebuild for the next 2 years  | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
3 teams that were the best at some point in time. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On November 05 2017 10:46 dsyxelic wrote: honestly it is incredibly impressive that samsung was able to produce samsung white, samsung blue, and this samsung team in a span of 3-4 years 3 teams that were the best at some point in time. What’s amazing to me about it is how decimated Samsung was after what was it season 4 worlds? They lost what like all 10 starters and most of their subs? The only player that looked good the next season was wraith; plus CuVee legit looked like trash. Yet after having the equivalent of the death penalty, they escape relegations and come back to win worlds three years later. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
1) Pray has always been massively overrated except for around S3-4 when people were meming Prayven and how he should retire. 2) There was a short time period when Bang was the best ADC, which wasn't some great thing, it was just that Deft, Imp, etc had gone to China and become trash, and new guys had not come up, and he was peaking. Even in spring of this year he wasn't ever winning lane (not wolf's strength really either) and SKT was just the only team that seemed to work together well. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 05 2017 12:27 cLutZ wrote: I agree with neo's massive post, except for two parts: 1) Pray has always been massively overrated except for around S3-4 when people were meming Prayven and how he should retire. 2) There was a short time period when Bang was the best ADC, which wasn't some great thing, it was just that Deft, Imp, etc had gone to China and become trash, and new guys had not come up, and he was peaking. Even in spring of this year he wasn't ever winning lane (not wolf's strength really either) and SKT was just the only team that seemed to work together well. 1. How was PraY not the best ADC in KR this year? Summer split, the competition was PraY, Deft, Bang, Ruler, and maybe Teddy and Kramer. Bang and Deft were shells of their former selves this year. Anyone who says Ruler, I'd call them out for some revisionist history. PraY played incredibly well during LZ's playoff run. I don't think you're giving PraY enough credit here. 2. I never said Bang didn't peak as KR's best ADC at any point. He was certainly on fire during 2015/2016 and his wins and titles would make him a contender in the best KR ADC discussion but I'm stressing how bad he did in 2017. That really tarnishes his legacy as a player. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Top: CuVee, LetMe. The third position is pretty shaky. Can make an argument for 957, SoaZ and Alphari. All had some good showings and sometimes they had poor showings. Jungle: Ambition, MLXG, Condi. (Honorable mention: Clearlove. Fuck you, Scout!) Mid: Faker. Faker. Faker. (Fuck you, Bang) ADC: Uzi, Ruler, iBoy. (Sorry, Pray Fuck you, Bang. Again.)Support: This one is the hardest. Ardent means its hard to shine as a support. So, this is without much thought: Ming, CoreJJ, Ignar. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On November 05 2017 13:02 NeoIllusions wrote: 1. How was PraY not the best ADC in KR this year? Summer split, the competition was PraY, Deft, Bang, Ruler, and maybe Teddy and Kramer. Bang and Deft were shells of their former selves this year. Anyone who says Ruler, I'd call them out for some revisionist history. PraY played incredibly well during LZ's playoff run. I don't think you're giving PraY enough credit here. 2. I never said Bang didn't peak as KR's best ADC at any point. He was certainly on fire during 2015/2016 and his wins and titles would make him a contender in the best KR ADC discussion but I'm stressing how bad he did in 2017. That really tarnishes his legacy as a player. The thing that removes culpability for other best ADC candidates is that they had to deal with brand new environments in China, with multilingual teams and new supports. Bang was on basically the same team, with the best mid laner, and the same support. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 05 2017 13:02 NeoIllusions wrote: 1. How was PraY not the best ADC in KR this year? Summer split, the competition was PraY, Deft, Bang, Ruler, and maybe Teddy and Kramer. Bang and Deft were shells of their former selves this year. Anyone who says Ruler, I'd call them out for some revisionist history. PraY played incredibly well during LZ's playoff run. I don't think you're giving PraY enough credit here. 2. I never said Bang didn't peak as KR's best ADC at any point. He was certainly on fire during 2015/2016 and his wins and titles would make him a contender in the best KR ADC discussion but I'm stressing how bad he did in 2017. That really tarnishes his legacy as a player. 1. Pray may have been the best ADC in KR, he was certainly the best in playoffs and of the top 4 teams. I didn't have time to watch the lower tier teams. That said, IF Pray was the best ADC in KR, that is simply indicative of a rot in KR at that position, because he is mechanically poor, and generally bad at optimizing DPS. This is simply clear by the champions we consider "Pray champions": Ashe, Varus, Jihn, all the CC/poke types, not the hardcarry monster types. I'v considered Gorilla the better player at every point of their partnership, and this year didn't change that. 2. Then I agree almost entirely. 3. Pray & Bang are actually a worrying trend.I'm not a big Ruler fan, but he is the kind of player I'd expect on a team with Faker or Rookie and you just say, "this guy is good enough that our tophalf will always be able to carry, because he's not gonna get smashed", but who is the up and coming KR ADC that does smash people? Honestly, who is the young KR Jungler and Support that we should be expecting to usurp these old guys like Score/Ambition? 2014 OGN would have laughed if you told them those guys would be in the league in 2017, let alone as junglers. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On November 05 2017 15:21 cLutZ wrote: 1. Pray may have been the best ADC in KR, he was certainly the best in playoffs and of the top 4 teams. I didn't have time to watch the lower tier teams. That said, IF Pray was the best ADC in KR, that is simply indicative of a rot in KR at that position, because he is mechanically poor, and generally bad at optimizing DPS. This is simply clear by the champions we consider "Pray champions": Ashe, Varus, Jihn, all the CC/poke types, not the hardcarry monster types. I'v considered Gorilla the better player at every point of their partnership, and this year didn't change that. 2. Then I agree almost entirely. 3. Pray & Bang are actually a worrying trend.I'm not a big Ruler fan, but he is the kind of player I'd expect on a team with Faker or Rookie and you just say, "this guy is good enough that our tophalf will always be able to carry, because he's not gonna get smashed", but who is the up and coming KR ADC that does smash people? Honestly, who is the young KR Jungler and Support that we should be expecting to usurp these old guys like Score/Ambition? 2014 OGN would have laughed if you told them those guys would be in the league in 2017, let alone as junglers. I would argue that in terms of intelligence, no player in his position has ever matched PraY. It is a major factor into the reason why no player of his position has been able to match PraY's longevity at the highest level. It is one thing to say that PraY's mechanical ability to churn out maximum DPS is massively overrated, but an entirely different matter to claim that PraY has always been massively overrated. There's more to the game than being able to produce highlight reel material plays that stick to the mind. As an overall package, I believe that if you apply the critical nature of assessment of PraY to the entire spectrum of top tier AD carries, there's literally nobody without severe flaws or faults. There's no Faker of AD carries, but that standard shouldn't be applied in the first place, in my opinion. Faker is a freak of nature. How would you rate the top AD carries in the world throughout all the seasons? I personally would like to see the disconnect between how PraY has been rated, and where your actual perception of his standings to be. | ||
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