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Ban bets!!Ban bets will continue for the duration of Worlds. You can place bet at any phase of Worlds; on individual games, series, whatever your heart desires. Bans will be enacted the day after Worlds ends, to ensure everyone can still post on LL while Worlds is ongoing. glhf~ - Winners in bold- better, better's win condition, bettee [ban duration for loser]- Yorbon, EDG fails to make it out of groups, vs DarkCore [1 week] - Sleight, Fnatic doesn't make it out of groups, vs AlterKot [2:1 weeks] - Apex, Gigabyte getting out of groups as a 1st place seed + TSM will finish 1st in their groups + Samsung will fail to qualify from their group + C9 will get out of their groups, vs JimmiC [1 week] - geript, Korean teams will win a combined 17 or more games in Groups, vs Gahlo [1 month] - geript, NA teams will win a combined 7 or less games in Groups, vs Torchise [1 month] - zer0das, SKT doesn't win Worlds, vs no one [1 year] - Zato-1, NA teams combined wins will be greater than or equal to EU teams combined wins, vs Yorbon [1 month] |
On November 05 2017 15:50 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2017 15:21 cLutZ wrote:On November 05 2017 13:02 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 05 2017 12:27 cLutZ wrote:
I agree with neo's massive post, except for two parts:
1) Pray has always been massively overrated except for around S3-4 when people were meming Prayven and how he should retire.
2) There was a short time period when Bang was the best ADC, which wasn't some great thing, it was just that Deft, Imp, etc had gone to China and become trash, and new guys had not come up, and he was peaking. Even in spring of this year he wasn't ever winning lane (not wolf's strength really either) and SKT was just the only team that seemed to work together well. 1. How was PraY not the best ADC in KR this year? Summer split, the competition was PraY, Deft, Bang, Ruler, and maybe Teddy and Kramer. Bang and Deft were shells of their former selves this year. Anyone who says Ruler, I'd call them out for some revisionist history. PraY played incredibly well during LZ's playoff run. I don't think you're giving PraY enough credit here. 2. I never said Bang didn't peak as KR's best ADC at any point. He was certainly on fire during 2015/2016 and his wins and titles would make him a contender in the best KR ADC discussion but I'm stressing how bad he did in 2017. That really tarnishes his legacy as a player. 1. Pray may have been the best ADC in KR, he was certainly the best in playoffs and of the top 4 teams. I didn't have time to watch the lower tier teams. That said, IF Pray was the best ADC in KR, that is simply indicative of a rot in KR at that position, because he is mechanically poor, and generally bad at optimizing DPS. This is simply clear by the champions we consider "Pray champions": Ashe, Varus, Jihn, all the CC/poke types, not the hardcarry monster types. I'v considered Gorilla the better player at every point of their partnership, and this year didn't change that. 2. Then I agree almost entirely. 3. Pray & Bang are actually a worrying trend.I'm not a big Ruler fan, but he is the kind of player I'd expect on a team with Faker or Rookie and you just say, "this guy is good enough that our tophalf will always be able to carry, because he's not gonna get smashed", but who is the up and coming KR ADC that does smash people? Honestly, who is the young KR Jungler and Support that we should be expecting to usurp these old guys like Score/Ambition? 2014 OGN would have laughed if you told them those guys would be in the league in 2017, let alone as junglers. I would argue that in terms of intelligence, no player in his position has ever matched PraY. It is a major factor into the reason why no player of his position has been able to match PraY's longevity at the highest level. It is one thing to say that PraY's mechanical ability to churn out maximum DPS is massively overrated, but an entirely different matter to claim that PraY has always been massively overrated. There's more to the game than being able to produce highlight reel material plays that stick to the mind. As an overall package, I believe that if you apply the critical nature of assessment of PraY to the entire spectrum of top tier AD carries, there's literally nobody without severe flaws or faults. There's no Faker of AD carries, but that standard shouldn't be applied in the first place, in my opinion. Faker is a freak of nature. How would you rate the top AD carries in the world throughout all the seasons? I personally would like to see the disconnect between how PraY has been rated, and where your actual perception of his standings to be.
I'd honestly have to be linked to the lists that people did going into worlds in S5-7 to remember. I recall, however, late S3/all of S4 people memeing Pray, and me saying to myself, "that is correct". Early S5 people were like, Ooo GE Tigers, one last hurrah for some aging vets and crap players" then they were magically good.
Yes Pray is a very smart player, same with score/ambition. But the signature of KR has been that being smart or being mechanical alone is not enough, you had to have both (particularly to be a top player). I am not against the existence of smart players, but I do think its weird how many players seem to be on KR teams seemingly based on that and veteran status. That was the NA problem going back till forever. There was no one to replace Dyrus, people still can't beat doublelift, hai has shit mechanics but still can outsmart 50% of teams on his own. I see the mechanics part being fairly prominent for KR. CN ADCs were way better than them mechanically this tournament, and lets be honest, ADC is the position you would most like to put an idiot-savant with 1000 real APM. There are other positions for cerebral players (jungler, even though IMO ambition's mechanics would embarrass the hypothetical OGN fan who was fast forwarded from right after the SSW win).
If the "Best ADC in Korea" plays Varus (a champion that was competing for the 4-6 slots as best at the position at this tournament) in 5/9 games, and the last 2 games of a losing 3-0, something is wrong. Its worse than Faker playing Galio (had they lost 0-3) because roaming is a core part of midlane and Galio is legit OP. Its like Faker playing Malzahar, or Khan playing all Maokai (even when cho is available).
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On November 05 2017 17:02 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2017 15:50 Letmelose wrote:On November 05 2017 15:21 cLutZ wrote:On November 05 2017 13:02 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 05 2017 12:27 cLutZ wrote:
I agree with neo's massive post, except for two parts:
1) Pray has always been massively overrated except for around S3-4 when people were meming Prayven and how he should retire.
2) There was a short time period when Bang was the best ADC, which wasn't some great thing, it was just that Deft, Imp, etc had gone to China and become trash, and new guys had not come up, and he was peaking. Even in spring of this year he wasn't ever winning lane (not wolf's strength really either) and SKT was just the only team that seemed to work together well. 1. How was PraY not the best ADC in KR this year? Summer split, the competition was PraY, Deft, Bang, Ruler, and maybe Teddy and Kramer. Bang and Deft were shells of their former selves this year. Anyone who says Ruler, I'd call them out for some revisionist history. PraY played incredibly well during LZ's playoff run. I don't think you're giving PraY enough credit here. 2. I never said Bang didn't peak as KR's best ADC at any point. He was certainly on fire during 2015/2016 and his wins and titles would make him a contender in the best KR ADC discussion but I'm stressing how bad he did in 2017. That really tarnishes his legacy as a player. 1. Pray may have been the best ADC in KR, he was certainly the best in playoffs and of the top 4 teams. I didn't have time to watch the lower tier teams. That said, IF Pray was the best ADC in KR, that is simply indicative of a rot in KR at that position, because he is mechanically poor, and generally bad at optimizing DPS. This is simply clear by the champions we consider "Pray champions": Ashe, Varus, Jihn, all the CC/poke types, not the hardcarry monster types. I'v considered Gorilla the better player at every point of their partnership, and this year didn't change that. 2. Then I agree almost entirely. 3. Pray & Bang are actually a worrying trend.I'm not a big Ruler fan, but he is the kind of player I'd expect on a team with Faker or Rookie and you just say, "this guy is good enough that our tophalf will always be able to carry, because he's not gonna get smashed", but who is the up and coming KR ADC that does smash people? Honestly, who is the young KR Jungler and Support that we should be expecting to usurp these old guys like Score/Ambition? 2014 OGN would have laughed if you told them those guys would be in the league in 2017, let alone as junglers. I would argue that in terms of intelligence, no player in his position has ever matched PraY. It is a major factor into the reason why no player of his position has been able to match PraY's longevity at the highest level. It is one thing to say that PraY's mechanical ability to churn out maximum DPS is massively overrated, but an entirely different matter to claim that PraY has always been massively overrated. There's more to the game than being able to produce highlight reel material plays that stick to the mind. As an overall package, I believe that if you apply the critical nature of assessment of PraY to the entire spectrum of top tier AD carries, there's literally nobody without severe flaws or faults. There's no Faker of AD carries, but that standard shouldn't be applied in the first place, in my opinion. Faker is a freak of nature. How would you rate the top AD carries in the world throughout all the seasons? I personally would like to see the disconnect between how PraY has been rated, and where your actual perception of his standings to be. I'd honestly have to be linked to the lists that people did going into worlds in S5-7 to remember. I recall, however, late S3/all of S4 people memeing Pray, and me saying to myself, "that is correct". Early S5 people were like, Ooo GE Tigers, one last hurrah for some aging vets and crap players" then they were magically good. Yes Pray is a very smart player, same with score/ambition. But the signature of KR has been that being smart or being mechanical alone is not enough, you had to have both (particularly to be a top player). I am not against the existence of smart players, but I do think its weird how many players seem to be on KR teams seemingly based on that and veteran status. That was the NA problem going back till forever. There was no one to replace Dyrus, people still can't beat doublelift, hai has shit mechanics but still can outsmart 50% of teams on his own. I see the mechanics part being fairly prominent for KR. CN ADCs were way better than them mechanically this tournament, and lets be honest, ADC is the position you would most like to put an idiot-savant with 1000 real APM. There are other positions for cerebral players (jungler, even though IMO ambition's mechanics would embarrass the hypothetical OGN fan who was fast forwarded from right after the SSW win). If the "Best ADC in Korea" plays Varus (a champion that was competing for the 4-6 slots as best at the position at this tournament) in 5/9 games, and the last 2 games of a losing 3-0, something is wrong. Its worse than Faker playing Galio (had they lost 0-3) because roaming is a core part of midlane and Galio is legit OP. Its like Faker playing Malzahar, or Khan playing all Maokai (even when cho is available).
I believe you are severely miscalculating either how smart PraY is, or how being cerebral is vital for this particular game. If you wish PraY to have the raw innate mechanics of tilt-free Deft coupled with his brilliant mind for the game in order for you to perceive him as a truly great player, I believe that there isn't a single AD carry on the planet right now who can be considered on that particular level.
Tell me, if you put any player of your choice in that Longzhu Gaming this year in place of PraY, do you think they'll even be competent enough team to qualify for the Season 7 World Championships? Finding of brilliant minds who aren't a severe liability in terms of mechanics is one of the hardest things to incorporate into a talented team, and I would argue that it was PraY that allowed Longzhu Gaming to win the domestic championship. Ambition may not be pleasing on the eyes, but I'll rather have him on Samsung Galaxy than almost any mechanically brilliant jungler you can name.
There is almost no shortage of mechanically talented players. Watching the very top end of Korean solo-queue may be more to your tastes if it is raw innate mechanical ability that you are in thirst for. I personally rate players who are focal to bringing success to their teams in a professional setting. PraY is not without his flaws, but he has less of them than almost any AD carry in history, and his strengths have served him well throughout his career.
Again, I'd like to see your list of top AD carries in history throughout all the seasons if you would like to stand by the comment that PraY was always vastly overrated. Otherwise, you are just listing out your perception of his limitations without providing any context. Either you have impossibly high standards for the perfect AD carry literally nobody in history has ever touched, or you are tunnel visioning on mechanical ability when literally no AD carry in history has ever managed transform their teams into the best team in the world through sheer mechanical ability alone.
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On November 05 2017 06:44 Gahlo wrote:
My hot take: SKT wins Worlds if they brought Untara.
Didn't they 3-0 Samsung in their LCK Summer run with Untara?
Btw, Untara left SKT i think
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On November 05 2017 17:57 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2017 17:02 cLutZ wrote:On November 05 2017 15:50 Letmelose wrote:On November 05 2017 15:21 cLutZ wrote:On November 05 2017 13:02 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 05 2017 12:27 cLutZ wrote:
I agree with neo's massive post, except for two parts:
1) Pray has always been massively overrated except for around S3-4 when people were meming Prayven and how he should retire.
2) There was a short time period when Bang was the best ADC, which wasn't some great thing, it was just that Deft, Imp, etc had gone to China and become trash, and new guys had not come up, and he was peaking. Even in spring of this year he wasn't ever winning lane (not wolf's strength really either) and SKT was just the only team that seemed to work together well. 1. How was PraY not the best ADC in KR this year? Summer split, the competition was PraY, Deft, Bang, Ruler, and maybe Teddy and Kramer. Bang and Deft were shells of their former selves this year. Anyone who says Ruler, I'd call them out for some revisionist history. PraY played incredibly well during LZ's playoff run. I don't think you're giving PraY enough credit here. 2. I never said Bang didn't peak as KR's best ADC at any point. He was certainly on fire during 2015/2016 and his wins and titles would make him a contender in the best KR ADC discussion but I'm stressing how bad he did in 2017. That really tarnishes his legacy as a player. 1. Pray may have been the best ADC in KR, he was certainly the best in playoffs and of the top 4 teams. I didn't have time to watch the lower tier teams. That said, IF Pray was the best ADC in KR, that is simply indicative of a rot in KR at that position, because he is mechanically poor, and generally bad at optimizing DPS. This is simply clear by the champions we consider "Pray champions": Ashe, Varus, Jihn, all the CC/poke types, not the hardcarry monster types. I'v considered Gorilla the better player at every point of their partnership, and this year didn't change that. 2. Then I agree almost entirely. 3. Pray & Bang are actually a worrying trend.I'm not a big Ruler fan, but he is the kind of player I'd expect on a team with Faker or Rookie and you just say, "this guy is good enough that our tophalf will always be able to carry, because he's not gonna get smashed", but who is the up and coming KR ADC that does smash people? Honestly, who is the young KR Jungler and Support that we should be expecting to usurp these old guys like Score/Ambition? 2014 OGN would have laughed if you told them those guys would be in the league in 2017, let alone as junglers. I would argue that in terms of intelligence, no player in his position has ever matched PraY. It is a major factor into the reason why no player of his position has been able to match PraY's longevity at the highest level. It is one thing to say that PraY's mechanical ability to churn out maximum DPS is massively overrated, but an entirely different matter to claim that PraY has always been massively overrated. There's more to the game than being able to produce highlight reel material plays that stick to the mind. As an overall package, I believe that if you apply the critical nature of assessment of PraY to the entire spectrum of top tier AD carries, there's literally nobody without severe flaws or faults. There's no Faker of AD carries, but that standard shouldn't be applied in the first place, in my opinion. Faker is a freak of nature. How would you rate the top AD carries in the world throughout all the seasons? I personally would like to see the disconnect between how PraY has been rated, and where your actual perception of his standings to be. I'd honestly have to be linked to the lists that people did going into worlds in S5-7 to remember. I recall, however, late S3/all of S4 people memeing Pray, and me saying to myself, "that is correct". Early S5 people were like, Ooo GE Tigers, one last hurrah for some aging vets and crap players" then they were magically good. Yes Pray is a very smart player, same with score/ambition. But the signature of KR has been that being smart or being mechanical alone is not enough, you had to have both (particularly to be a top player). I am not against the existence of smart players, but I do think its weird how many players seem to be on KR teams seemingly based on that and veteran status. That was the NA problem going back till forever. There was no one to replace Dyrus, people still can't beat doublelift, hai has shit mechanics but still can outsmart 50% of teams on his own. I see the mechanics part being fairly prominent for KR. CN ADCs were way better than them mechanically this tournament, and lets be honest, ADC is the position you would most like to put an idiot-savant with 1000 real APM. There are other positions for cerebral players (jungler, even though IMO ambition's mechanics would embarrass the hypothetical OGN fan who was fast forwarded from right after the SSW win). If the "Best ADC in Korea" plays Varus (a champion that was competing for the 4-6 slots as best at the position at this tournament) in 5/9 games, and the last 2 games of a losing 3-0, something is wrong. Its worse than Faker playing Galio (had they lost 0-3) because roaming is a core part of midlane and Galio is legit OP. Its like Faker playing Malzahar, or Khan playing all Maokai (even when cho is available). I believe you are severely miscalculating either how smart PraY is, or how being cerebral is vital for this particular game. If you wish PraY to have the raw innate mechanics of tilt-free Deft coupled with his brilliant mind for the game in order for you to perceive him as a truly great player, I believe that there isn't a single AD carry on the planet right now who can be considered on that particular level. Tell me, if you put any player of your choice in that Longzhu Gaming this year in place of PraY, do you think they'll even be competent enough team to qualify for the Season 7 World Championships? Finding of brilliant minds who aren't a severe liability in terms of mechanics is one of the hardest things to incorporate into a talented team, and I would argue that it was PraY that allowed Longzhu Gaming to win the domestic championship. Ambition may not be pleasing on the eyes, but I'll rather have him on Samsung Galaxy than almost any mechanically brilliant jungler you can name. There is almost no shortage of mechanically talented players. Watching the very top end of Korean solo-que may be more to your tastes if it is raw innate mechanical ability that you are in thirst for. I personally rate players who are focal to bringing success to their teams in a professional setting. PraY is not without his flaws, but he has less of them than almost any AD carry in history, and his strengths have served him well throughout his career. Again, I'd like to see your list of top AD carries in history throughout all the seasons if you would like to stand by the comment that PraY was always vastly overrated. Otherwise, you are just listing out your perception of his limitations without providing any context. Either you have impossibly high standards for the perfect AD carry literally nobody in history has ever touched, or you are tunnel visioning on mechanical ability when literally no AD carry in history has ever managed transform their teams into the best team in the world through sheer mechanical ability alone.
You also have to take into consideration the chemistry between Pray and Gorilla, they spent like what, 3 years together.
Any other ADC would be nowhere close to Pray and Gorilla's teamwork
Also, Faker needs (a new) Bengi, the only time the holy trinity is not together (kkoma, Faker and Bengi), SKT doesn't win Worlds when they qualify for it.
People call blank the new bengi, because he did what bengi did last year for peanut, but there really is no competition, Bengi and Faker are just pieces of artwork when put together
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After the semi-final I saw coming that SSG would win. Just the way that it happened was a surprise.
Seeing Faker cry like that after the games was heartbreaking. It hurt me more than I'd ever think.
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On November 05 2017 21:11 AzAlexZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2017 06:44 Gahlo wrote:
My hot take: SKT wins Worlds if they brought Untara. Didn't they 3-0 Samsung in their LCK Summer run with Untara? Btw, Untara left SKT i think
Makes sense, all of SKT's contracts expire on the 20th and since they weren't bringing him to Worlds there was no reason to keep him around.
When Samsung was asked what champs they like to get skins for:
Cuvee - Gnar
Ambition - hasn't decide yet
Crown - Taliyah
Ruler - Xayah
CoreJJ - Rakan
Haru - Rengar
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On November 05 2017 22:52 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2017 21:11 AzAlexZ wrote:On November 05 2017 06:44 Gahlo wrote:
My hot take: SKT wins Worlds if they brought Untara. Didn't they 3-0 Samsung in their LCK Summer run with Untara? Btw, Untara left SKT i think Makes sense, all of SKT's contracts expire on the 20th and since they weren't bringing him to Worlds there was no reason to keep him around. When Samsung was asked what champs they like to get skins for: Cuvee - Gnar Ambition - hasn't decide yet Crown - Taliyah Ruler - Xayah CoreJJ - Rakan Haru - Rengar
Rengar already got a Samsung White skin so idk why Haru wants another Samsung Rengar skin lol.
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On November 05 2017 23:13 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2017 22:52 Gahlo wrote:On November 05 2017 21:11 AzAlexZ wrote:On November 05 2017 06:44 Gahlo wrote:
My hot take: SKT wins Worlds if they brought Untara. Didn't they 3-0 Samsung in their LCK Summer run with Untara? Btw, Untara left SKT i think Makes sense, all of SKT's contracts expire on the 20th and since they weren't bringing him to Worlds there was no reason to keep him around. When Samsung was asked what champs they like to get skins for: Cuvee - Gnar Ambition - hasn't decide yet Crown - Taliyah Ruler - Xayah CoreJJ - Rakan Haru - Rengar Rengar already got a Samsung White skin so idk why Haru wants another Samsung Rengar skin lol.
Riot changed up the strategy for wchampion skins tho, now it reflects the player more rather than an 'esports' theme. Don't think he'll be allowed it tho.
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Reading through the last few posts:
- Saying Pray doesn't have mechanics is flat out wrong. He's not a god like Uzi/Deft/Imp, but his mechanics are not holding him back. And his champion pool consists of less mechanically intensive champs because they are meta, and because LZ does not look like they are interested in running Kog. Pray plays a pretty good Ezreal, sadly that champ is not considered particularly viable in the bot lane.
- KR has tons of good ADC, only region comparable is CN, and that's because they have a bottomless player pool. The reason they don't look crazy mechanically is because the game does not revolve around individual skill anymore. The days of Uzi straight up carrying games by himself are over, he can carry but it's a team effort. And the scene has matured to the point where no KR teams have noticeably bad players anymore. Many of them are veterans, it's true, but that also has to do with the fact that teams still think they are good. Ambition just won worlds ffs.
Btw, Untara left SKT i think
Wasn't it T0m who left, not Untara?
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On November 06 2017 00:21 DarkCore wrote:Reading through the last few posts: - Saying Pray doesn't have mechanics is flat out wrong. He's not a god like Uzi/Deft/Imp, but his mechanics are not holding him back. And his champion pool consists of less mechanically intensive champs because they are meta, and because LZ does not look like they are interested in running Kog. Pray plays a pretty good Ezreal, sadly that champ is not considered particularly viable in the bot lane. - KR has tons of good ADC, only region comparable is CN, and that's because they have a bottomless player pool. The reason they don't look crazy mechanically is because the game does not revolve around individual skill anymore. The days of Uzi straight up carrying games by himself are over, he can carry but it's a team effort. And the scene has matured to the point where no KR teams have noticeably bad players anymore. Many of them are veterans, it's true, but that also has to do with the fact that teams still think they are good. Ambition just won worlds ffs. Wasn't it T0m who left, not Untara?
If I were to categorize what once was the holy trinity of Korean AD carries (PraY, Bang, and Deft).
Deft is in my opinion the most mechanically gifted AD carry to come out of Korea. It seems for Deft, almost everything is focused on maximum kiting potential and DPS output, from his rune settings, to his mouse speed. However, apart from this particular skill set, which he is outstanding at, he is quite lacking in numerous regards. He simply is not a well rounded player, especially once you factor out his raw mechanical ability, which can be easily nullified by any competent top tier team.
PraY does tend to focus more on utility, and just knows what kind of plays will result in a victory. In terms of pure kiting ability and maximizing damage during team fights, there are superior players, but it is extremely short sighted to rate him solely on that ability alone. PraY is without a single doubt the most intelligent AD carry to come out of Korea, and in my opinion, the most valuable. There aren't many AD carries that I would base a team around, but PraY would be one of them. Scratch that, PraY would be my go to choice out of literally everybody in the world, if I was forced to build around my AD carry.
I don't know what the bar is to qualify for not having poor mechanics, but I personally think PraY's mechanics are just fine. He doesn't rely on them to win, like Deft does, but it is not detrimental to his success, and that's more than enough, in my eyes, once you consider his numerous other assets.
Bang has a different vibe to the other two, but is somewhat more closer to PraY in my opinion, although during his absolute prime, Bang probably had superior positioning which allowed him to be a slightly more efficient team fighter. At the peak of his game, I would describe Bang as the most optimal AD carry to come out of Korea. Reliable in lane, good understanding of the game, self-sufficient, great damage output, and could be trusted in the very late game should the game go that far.
In conclusion, Deft is best suited for solo-queue, and perhaps more chaotic environments like scrims where raw mechanical ability pays off more than the strictly controlled environment of a professional match. Like I mentioned before, in terms of pure skill, Deft is probably the greatest to come out of Korea. From an aesthetic point of view, it sure is tempting to praise Deft, but from a pragmatic point of view, he is the type of player I personally would label as being always somewhat overrated, not PraY. We're watching a competitive gaming scene, not a performance art.
PraY is unparalleled in terms of making a championship contender out of a rag tag team of players due to his incredibly high intelligence, and unmatched ability to combine both utility and DPS output from one position. Once PraY is allowed to orchestrate the game, his impact on the game itself from a play-making perspective is unmatched in my eyes. imp during his prime was somewhat similar in terms of sheer impact, but his stay at the very top was more short lived, and even though his style was incredibly memorable, I think his approach was ultimately somewhat flawed.
Bang at the height of his powers was probably the most suitable player to pick into the theoretical dream team. The frightening combination of two perfect damage dealers in Faker and Bang was what allowed the SK Telecom T1 dynasty to resurrect from the dead, and dominate the scene for the longest duration in the history of the competitive scene thus far. Sure Faker was far more talented and decisive of the two, but I can't think of a single AD carry that could have complemented Faker better than Bang during his prime. And since building around Faker is the most logical decision to make if you are trying to put together the perfect team, you obviously want the kind of player who'll complement him the best, not a resource hog like Deft, or another alpha like PraY whose role would somewhat overlap with Faker.
In terms of pure skill, Deft is probably the greatest to come out of Korea. Bang was the most optimal AD carry (all great things must come to an end), and since no other AD carry in history ever came close to even touching Faker in terms of sheer carrying potential, there's no shame in being perfect for the subservient role, especially if it results in the greatest dynasty the world has seen thus far. PraY was always unmatched because he was probably the only AD carry out of Korea that you could build a team around, and reap the rewards in terms of results.
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I can't believe Clutz is still trying to shit on Varus
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Varus is bad, and you should feel bad
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I stick with the Korean coaches thx
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And yet, my banbet went unaccepted until after the preferences were made clear.
Also, how can deft be part of any KR holy Trinity? Imp was better than him at all relevant points of their careers
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On November 06 2017 00:21 DarkCore wrote:Reading through the last few posts: - Saying Pray doesn't have mechanics is flat out wrong. He's not a god like Uzi/Deft/Imp, but his mechanics are not holding him back. And his champion pool consists of less mechanically intensive champs because they are meta, and because LZ does not look like they are interested in running Kog. Pray plays a pretty good Ezreal, sadly that champ is not considered particularly viable in the bot lane. - KR has tons of good ADC, only region comparable is CN, and that's because they have a bottomless player pool. The reason they don't look crazy mechanically is because the game does not revolve around individual skill anymore. The days of Uzi straight up carrying games by himself are over, he can carry but it's a team effort. And the scene has matured to the point where no KR teams have noticeably bad players anymore. Many of them are veterans, it's true, but that also has to do with the fact that teams still think they are good. Ambition just won worlds ffs. Wasn't it T0m who left, not Untara?
Untara is listed under SKT but doesn't have contract information anymore in the Riot Contract Database.
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On November 06 2017 03:41 cLutZ wrote:
And yet, my banbet went unaccepted until after the preferences were made clear.
Also, how can deft be part of any KR holy Trinity? Imp was better than him at all relevant points of their careers
Your ban bet was over champion skins, not actually relevant imo
The fact that Korean teams went Kalista>Trist>Varus in the semis and finals says more about Varus than the ssg skins will
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What would have saved you? We are talking about two teams that made the finals in spite of their ADC play. Varus went 1-2, and the game he won was the closest Samsung was to losing. Even there it was the 4th priority ADC
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On November 06 2017 04:04 cLutZ wrote:
What would have saved you? We are talking about two teams that made the finals in spite of their ADC play. Varus went 1-2, and the game he won was the closest Samsung was to losing. Even there it was the 4th priority ADC
Your ability to count is questionable, xayah only got picked 4th.
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Imp was better when he was in SSW, but it will always be hard to judge his skill because his support was Mata, the best player in the world at that point. Now Mata is supporting Deft, who I think is a lot better than his days in SSB, but again I'd say Mata enables him to play better.
Your holy trinity is pretty funny, because I have never considered there to be any ADC in KR that dominated long enough to be considered for such a position. I mean, off the top of my head, ADC that held the number 1 spot:
- Piglet
- Imp
- Pray
- Bang
- Deft
- Ruler
- Score
- Ohq
Remind me of anyone I've missed. Point is, every ADC in KR has had far shorter 'peaks' than other roles. It's a role where small mistakes cost you games because you get blown up since you're the main target.
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EPT
