|
On October 13 2014 13:53 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 13:23 Amarok wrote:On October 13 2014 12:30 chalice wrote:
gogoing's rumble ults were still lightyears ahead of wickd's. If ever there was an example of damming with faint praise... Gogoings equalizers were so frustrating. So many of them were cast through the team rather than across them. Royal just stepped aside and moved forward or back as appropriate. He used them on single targets pretty regularly as well. They key one for me was this dive against him him in the top lane in probably Game 2, where he "split" the team, but did 0 damage. It was exactly as bad as Soaz (#1 EU overrated player) terrible rumble ult during the backdoor: if your enemies are Bronze, you crush them, if they are Plat, they laugh at you and kill you. I just disagree that GoGoing was good on anything besides Ryze and Irelia. He was average (for the entire 16 team tournament) on Nidalee and Maokai, and a bad Rumble. Obviously his Alistar could be good (and we never got to see it, or anyones). Basically, 2013 Dade, except people didn't ban him out.
My favorite was when he cast it on the isolated Lucian (?) in the baron pit while the 4 other members were in the opposite end of the pit clumped up with the baron debuff and no way to get out.
|
United States12679 Posts
On October 13 2014 14:48 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 13:05 onlywonderboy wrote:
Finally got caught up on semis, not pleased with the results :/
SHRC are gonna get stomped. inb4 3-0 finals two years in a row. It's not like OMG would have done any better. I'm fairly sure OMG would have gotten 3-0'd as well. I predicted White to be champions even with predicting royal club would make it to finals(I had them beating Shield instead of OMG though, but I stick with my prediction of Uzi carrying Royal). I think their 2nd place curse is real especially with Insec there. I mean come on, even Blue got stomped by White. What makes you think OMG would have had any chance after the Blue stomp? I'm excited that Royal club got to finals because I think they are the more interesting team. They have a unique play style, and Uzi is seriously really really really good. People talk about his mechanics, but I believe his in-game decisions are really strong and underestimated. Of course, he can be baited in by his team on occasion.
SHRC's early game and mid game decision making is pretty bad if they don't have a significant lead. Their plan is literally to pray Uzi will carry them while Insec attempts to make plays to cover for their weak solo laners. Looper and Pawn + Dandy will absolutely crush Royal's solo lanes and the game won't ever get to the point where Uzi can carry.
At least OMG has Gogoing, who I'm pretty sure can at least hold his own against Looper in most scenarios. Cola has no chance. He'll get wrecked before he even gets level 6 every game guaranteed. Corn and cool are both weaker than Pawn, but Corn has been playing mediocre to bad in virtually every single game at World's except game 5 of semis. cool has shown some brilliance on Jayce. As for the bot lane, Imp+Mata aren't amazing laners so I'm pretty sure both OMG bot lane can at least break even.
TLDR, OMG can at least make it to mid/late game. SHRC won't even make it past 30 minutes. Their solo lanes are that bad.
|
On October 13 2014 15:06 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 15:04 ketchup wrote:On October 13 2014 14:57 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 13 2014 14:43 wei2coolman wrote:On October 13 2014 13:56 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 13 2014 10:32 wei2coolman wrote:On October 13 2014 08:22 Sufficiency wrote:
Sigh. Yet again OMG did all the work then lose to Royal lol.
I am pretty sure Royal would have had tons of trouble vs Shield. What evidence is there to suggest that? On October 13 2014 10:31 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On October 13 2014 09:49 chalice wrote:
insec is the wildcard that that gives SHRC that 10% chance of getting lucky and pulling off the upset that they didn't have last year. overall he's not that great of a jungler, but if things go well for him he can make a difference in a way that few others can. inSec always played like that, people who say that "inSec was way better when he was jungler in KT B" are just hypocrites. On October 13 2014 10:07 ketchup wrote:On October 13 2014 09:49 chalice wrote:
insec is the wildcard that that gives SHRC that 10% chance of getting lucky and pulling off the upset that they didn't have last year. overall he's not that great of a jungler, but if things go well for him he can make a difference in a way that few others can. I actually think Zero is a much better player, and is basically the biggest reason uzi can play as he does. He also gives them the control they need after they get the early game lead game 5 of omg vs royal club was just a slaughter. None of OMG played well. All of the team made simple mistakes. They were basically full on tilt as soon as the game went slightly out of their hands. Zero is just salvaging all shit Uzi and inSec do, if somehow Starhorn is going to win 1 game against White, it will be completely on his shoulders. I geniunely hope that if Zero goes back to OGN, he's going to find legit powerhouse team. 2nd place at worlds. "find a powerhouse team". let's fucking face it. He already did. No one fucking gives Royal any fucking credit because they always think "oh that's not how you're supposed to play LoL", which is fucking bullshit. Pure raw mechanical abilities with insane unchecked aggression is a perfectly valid way to play LoL, deal with it. personally, I don't give Royal any credit because they only have 1 playstyle (unless they get retardedly ahead early game by some stroke of luck; ie. Insec playing stupidly aggressive and it actually working out). That playstyle is bend over and take it and hope the other team throws so Uzi can carry us. Corn and Cola are godawful and were getting completely outplayed by literally every other non-Wildcard top laner in the tournament. Insec is pretty good, but is super aggressive, probably so Royal has a chance of making it through the early game. Uzi is a god. Zero is ok. lol, "ok" yeah, kobe bryant is just ok. too. Yea no. Zero is no Kobe, not even close. Mata is definitely better than Zero. GorillA, LemonNation, and Lustboy are all as good if not better than Zero and that's just the supports from bracket stage at World's.I don't find Zero amazing. He's solid, but nothing spectacular. Royal's vision control is abysmal and while it's a team effort, the support also holds the brunt of the responsibility for vision. Zero also facechecks one too many times for me to consider him top tier. His skillshot accuracy is good, but not Madlife-level either. You could argue that his skill level is being obfuscated due to the overall skill level of SHRC, but he was nothing special when he was on KT Rolster iirc. Yea, that's why we see lemonnation(lol) and lustboy(lollol) playing in the Finals right? Please, we saw Zero win games for Royal in both the EDG and OMG series. I do think GorillA is better than Zero, but GorillA definitely didn't show up for their games against OMG in the quarters. The OMG swap of cloud vs dada777 should be proof enough that you don't get to quarters without a solid mid-game support. Zero has won games for Royal due to his vision and map control. That's a terrible argument. C9 and TSM got knocked out by arguably the two strongest teams at Worlds. You can't deny that SSB, TSM, and C9 all got the shitty side of the bracket. If SHRC and TSM swapped bracket spots, SHRC wouldn't have even made it to semis. I'm not saying C9 or TSM>SHRC. I'm saying Zero probably isn't heads and shoulders above LemonNation and Lustboy the way Kobe is heads and shoulders above [insert random NBA point guard here].
Do you really think lomonation and lustboy are better or were just trying to make a point? I don't mind the GorillA commentary, but the other two are a huge step down from Zero. I sincerely believe he is a huge reason Uzi can play the way he does. He enables Uzi to carry them. He is also no slouch in individual mechanical play.
|
United States12679 Posts
On October 13 2014 15:09 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 15:06 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 13 2014 15:04 ketchup wrote:On October 13 2014 14:57 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 13 2014 14:43 wei2coolman wrote:On October 13 2014 13:56 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 13 2014 10:32 wei2coolman wrote:On October 13 2014 08:22 Sufficiency wrote:
Sigh. Yet again OMG did all the work then lose to Royal lol.
I am pretty sure Royal would have had tons of trouble vs Shield. What evidence is there to suggest that? On October 13 2014 10:31 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On October 13 2014 09:49 chalice wrote:
insec is the wildcard that that gives SHRC that 10% chance of getting lucky and pulling off the upset that they didn't have last year. overall he's not that great of a jungler, but if things go well for him he can make a difference in a way that few others can. inSec always played like that, people who say that "inSec was way better when he was jungler in KT B" are just hypocrites. On October 13 2014 10:07 ketchup wrote:On October 13 2014 09:49 chalice wrote:
insec is the wildcard that that gives SHRC that 10% chance of getting lucky and pulling off the upset that they didn't have last year. overall he's not that great of a jungler, but if things go well for him he can make a difference in a way that few others can. I actually think Zero is a much better player, and is basically the biggest reason uzi can play as he does. He also gives them the control they need after they get the early game lead game 5 of omg vs royal club was just a slaughter. None of OMG played well. All of the team made simple mistakes. They were basically full on tilt as soon as the game went slightly out of their hands. Zero is just salvaging all shit Uzi and inSec do, if somehow Starhorn is going to win 1 game against White, it will be completely on his shoulders. I geniunely hope that if Zero goes back to OGN, he's going to find legit powerhouse team. 2nd place at worlds. "find a powerhouse team". let's fucking face it. He already did. No one fucking gives Royal any fucking credit because they always think "oh that's not how you're supposed to play LoL", which is fucking bullshit. Pure raw mechanical abilities with insane unchecked aggression is a perfectly valid way to play LoL, deal with it. personally, I don't give Royal any credit because they only have 1 playstyle (unless they get retardedly ahead early game by some stroke of luck; ie. Insec playing stupidly aggressive and it actually working out). That playstyle is bend over and take it and hope the other team throws so Uzi can carry us. Corn and Cola are godawful and were getting completely outplayed by literally every other non-Wildcard top laner in the tournament. Insec is pretty good, but is super aggressive, probably so Royal has a chance of making it through the early game. Uzi is a god. Zero is ok. lol, "ok" yeah, kobe bryant is just ok. too. Yea no. Zero is no Kobe, not even close. Mata is definitely better than Zero. GorillA, LemonNation, and Lustboy are all as good if not better than Zero and that's just the supports from bracket stage at World's.I don't find Zero amazing. He's solid, but nothing spectacular. Royal's vision control is abysmal and while it's a team effort, the support also holds the brunt of the responsibility for vision. Zero also facechecks one too many times for me to consider him top tier. His skillshot accuracy is good, but not Madlife-level either. You could argue that his skill level is being obfuscated due to the overall skill level of SHRC, but he was nothing special when he was on KT Rolster iirc. Yea, that's why we see lemonnation(lol) and lustboy(lollol) playing in the Finals right? Please, we saw Zero win games for Royal in both the EDG and OMG series. I do think GorillA is better than Zero, but GorillA definitely didn't show up for their games against OMG in the quarters. The OMG swap of cloud vs dada777 should be proof enough that you don't get to quarters without a solid mid-game support. Zero has won games for Royal due to his vision and map control. That's a terrible argument. C9 and TSM got knocked out by arguably the two strongest teams at Worlds. You can't deny that SSB, TSM, and C9 all got the shitty side of the bracket. If SHRC and TSM swapped bracket spots, SHRC wouldn't have even made it to semis. I'm not saying C9 or TSM>SHRC. I'm saying Zero probably isn't heads and shoulders above LemonNation and Lustboy the way Kobe is heads and shoulders above [insert random NBA point guard here]. Do you really think lomonation and lustboy are better or were just trying to make a point? I don't mind the GorillA commentary, but the other two are a huge step down from Zero. I sincerely believe he is a huge reason Uzi can play the way he does. He enables Uzi to carry them. He is also no slouch in individual mechanical play.
i never said they were better. I said they were as good as Zero or at least not so much worse than Zero that wei's Kobe comparison makes sense.
Just look at matchups. TSM went 1-1 against SHRC and C9 managed to force tiebreakers against NJWS in groups.
readin comprehension yo
|
On October 13 2014 14:57 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 14:43 wei2coolman wrote:On October 13 2014 13:56 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 13 2014 10:32 wei2coolman wrote:On October 13 2014 08:22 Sufficiency wrote:
Sigh. Yet again OMG did all the work then lose to Royal lol.
I am pretty sure Royal would have had tons of trouble vs Shield. What evidence is there to suggest that? On October 13 2014 10:31 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On October 13 2014 09:49 chalice wrote:
insec is the wildcard that that gives SHRC that 10% chance of getting lucky and pulling off the upset that they didn't have last year. overall he's not that great of a jungler, but if things go well for him he can make a difference in a way that few others can. inSec always played like that, people who say that "inSec was way better when he was jungler in KT B" are just hypocrites. On October 13 2014 10:07 ketchup wrote:On October 13 2014 09:49 chalice wrote:
insec is the wildcard that that gives SHRC that 10% chance of getting lucky and pulling off the upset that they didn't have last year. overall he's not that great of a jungler, but if things go well for him he can make a difference in a way that few others can. I actually think Zero is a much better player, and is basically the biggest reason uzi can play as he does. He also gives them the control they need after they get the early game lead game 5 of omg vs royal club was just a slaughter. None of OMG played well. All of the team made simple mistakes. They were basically full on tilt as soon as the game went slightly out of their hands. Zero is just salvaging all shit Uzi and inSec do, if somehow Starhorn is going to win 1 game against White, it will be completely on his shoulders. I geniunely hope that if Zero goes back to OGN, he's going to find legit powerhouse team. 2nd place at worlds. "find a powerhouse team". let's fucking face it. He already did. No one fucking gives Royal any fucking credit because they always think "oh that's not how you're supposed to play LoL", which is fucking bullshit. Pure raw mechanical abilities with insane unchecked aggression is a perfectly valid way to play LoL, deal with it. personally, I don't give Royal any credit because they only have 1 playstyle (unless they get retardedly ahead early game by some stroke of luck; ie. Insec playing stupidly aggressive and it actually working out). That playstyle is bend over and take it and hope the other team throws so Uzi can carry us. Corn and Cola are godawful and were getting completely outplayed by literally every other non-Wildcard top laner in the tournament. Insec is pretty good, but is super aggressive, probably so Royal has a chance of making it through the early game. Uzi is a god. Zero is ok. lol, "ok" yeah, kobe bryant is just ok. too. Yea no. Zero is no Kobe, not even close. Mata is definitely better than Zero. GorillA, LemonNation, and Lustboy are all as good if not better than Zero and that's just the supports from bracket stage at World's.
So yea, you said this. I'm not really trying to argue with you too much, which is why I'm asking if you exaggerated to prove a point or not.
|
Zero is 10 times better then Lustboy/Lemonnation. There is nothing to compare.
|
Ryuu's just ass mad that Royal could literally play rock paper scissors with just rock and still beat a fuck ton of teams.
|
United States12679 Posts
lol, you guys are just completely ignoring the fact that Royal split 1-1 with TSM of all teams in groups, plus the fact that in virtually every game except game 5 of the OMG v. Royal series, Royal got their ass spanked up until OMG did something amazingly stupid.
Zero is good, but he's not that good. Uzi, however, is that good.
I mean, let's look at Royal's road to finals. They went 5-1 in a group with SK w/out Svenskeren and TPA, who were basically free wins and went 1-1 with TSM.
They then got gifted the EDG series cause Namei decided he wanted to be a silver tier AD carry and literally got caught out multiple times in every single game of that series. I mean ffs Namei did this shit+ Show Spoiler + literally every single game of the series. It's a miracle EDG even won 2 games.
Then they win the OMG series because OMG can't restrain themselves and made multiple awful baron calls/over-extensions.
If Royal got seeded in group C or D, I'm not even sure they would've made it out of groups.
|
On October 13 2014 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
lol, you guys are just completely ignoring the fact that Royal split 1-1 with TSM of all teams in groups, plus the fact that in virtually every game except game 5 of the OMG v. Royal series, Royal got their ass spanked up until OMG did something amazingly stupid.
Zero is good, but he's not that good. Uzi, however, is that good.
and? TSM lost to SK and bo1 doesn't mean shit.
|
United States12679 Posts
On October 13 2014 15:50 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
lol, you guys are just completely ignoring the fact that Royal split 1-1 with TSM of all teams in groups, plus the fact that in virtually every game except game 5 of the OMG v. Royal series, Royal got their ass spanked up until OMG did something amazingly stupid.
Zero is good, but he's not that good. Uzi, however, is that good. and? TSM lost to SK and bo1 doesn't mean shit.
that's my point. TSM isn't near top tier and yet Royal went 1-1. At least White's excuse for losing to TSM was arrogance and they proved that in the Blue v. White series. (Also worth noting that TSM's loss to SK was SK with Svenskeren. If Sven didn't get himself banned, I'm pretty sure SK would've made it out of groups or at least force tiebreakers) Royal barely scraped through in both their matches against their Chinese compatriots and only because EDG played uncharacteristically bad, while OMG couldn't help but throw twice.
The Royal Club kool-aid is too strong.
|
On October 13 2014 15:56 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 15:50 orzeu wrote:On October 13 2014 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
lol, you guys are just completely ignoring the fact that Royal split 1-1 with TSM of all teams in groups, plus the fact that in virtually every game except game 5 of the OMG v. Royal series, Royal got their ass spanked up until OMG did something amazingly stupid.
Zero is good, but he's not that good. Uzi, however, is that good. and? TSM lost to SK and bo1 doesn't mean shit. that's my point. TSM isn't near top tier and yet Royal went 1-1. At least White's excuse for losing to TSM was arrogance and they proved that in the Blue v. White series. (Also worth noting that TSM's loss to SK was SK with Svenskeren. If Sven didn't get himself banned, I'm pretty sure SK would've made it out of groups or at least force tiebreakers) Royal barely scraped through in both their matches against their Chinese compatriots and only because EDG played uncharacteristically bad, while OMG couldn't help but throw twice. The Royal Club kool-aid is too strong.
SSW dropped a game in a bo5 format to TSM, your point?
|
United States12679 Posts
On October 13 2014 15:59 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 15:56 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 13 2014 15:50 orzeu wrote:On October 13 2014 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
lol, you guys are just completely ignoring the fact that Royal split 1-1 with TSM of all teams in groups, plus the fact that in virtually every game except game 5 of the OMG v. Royal series, Royal got their ass spanked up until OMG did something amazingly stupid.
Zero is good, but he's not that good. Uzi, however, is that good. and? TSM lost to SK and bo1 doesn't mean shit. that's my point. TSM isn't near top tier and yet Royal went 1-1. At least White's excuse for losing to TSM was arrogance and they proved that in the Blue v. White series. (Also worth noting that TSM's loss to SK was SK with Svenskeren. If Sven didn't get himself banned, I'm pretty sure SK would've made it out of groups or at least force tiebreakers) Royal barely scraped through in both their matches against their Chinese compatriots and only because EDG played uncharacteristically bad, while OMG couldn't help but throw twice. The Royal Club kool-aid is too strong. SSW dropped a game in a bo5 format to TSM, your point?
did you even read the quoted post?
my point is Royal lucked their way into the finals and I'm gonna be surprised if White doesn't stomp them as hard as SKT did.
|
I do think Zero is good, but he is kind of like the Anti-GosuPepper style of good. As in, he is fairly mediocre going forward, but elite going backwards. A perfect example is he has great Nami Bubbles, Janna Nados, and Tidal Waves, but I doubt he would have good Flash-Tibbers/Crescendos based on how he plays. Plus, the classic Dora mode that all supports have, he has at like 15-30% more than the normal rate.
He is a lot like Lustboy, I think, with a slightly better Thresh, but a worse Nami and it seems he also cant play Zilean.
|
Weird to not give a team that is at least 2nd best in the turnament where only the best teams from all over the world is represented...
Give credit :D
|
On October 13 2014 16:17 Ota Solgryn wrote:
Weird to not give a team that is at least 2nd best in the turnament where only the best teams from all over the world is represented...
??? Weird to not give what?
|
United Kingdom50293 Posts
So who should be in the finals? Samsung blue who got rekt 0-3 anyway, najin shield who got steamrolled by gogoing, alliance who lost to BR or OMG who threw in the first place against starhorn? I'm seeing problems but no solution.
Or should we just bring in KTA last second :>
|
On October 13 2014 16:35 Fusilero wrote:
So who should be in the finals? Samsung blue who got rekt 0-3 anyway, najin shield who got steamrolled by gogoing, alliance who lost to BR or OMG who threw in the first place against starhorn? I'm seeing problems but no solution.
Or should we just bring in KTA last second :>
Yeah, I mean, pretty much SSW is just so fuckign dominant, I don't think much could really be pinned on Riot in regards to how this World's panned out.
|
I don't see anything wrong with SHRC being in finals
They got there by beating teams, even if the other team threw and/or they had easier opponents
You can say they got lucky, but all in all, they made it to the end
Saying they don't deserve to be in the spot seems silly
You can't just hope for that dream finals all the time
Too many variables
Even Flash dropped games!
|
United States12679 Posts
I'm not saying SHRC doesn't deserve to be in the finals or that there's something wrong with it. EDG and OMG played bad and don't deserve to move on.
Rather, I'm trying to deflate the SHRC kool aid, specifically the Zero = Kobe Bryant bullshit.
The only person on SHRC who's legitimately world class is Uzi. Insec and Zero are good, but not amazing.
|
On October 13 2014 16:45 JSH wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with SHRC being in finals
They got there by beating teams, even if the other team threw and/or they had easier opponents
You can say they got lucky, but all in all, they made it to the end
Saying they don't deserve to be in the spot seems silly
You can't just hope for that dream finals all the time
Too many variables
Even Flash dropped games!
They got lucky by beating a team that 3-0'd the 3rd best korean team.
People are fucking stupid, Royal deserves to be in the fucking final.
No matter what happened the final was set up to be a 3-0 anyways, SSW just that much better than everyone else.
On October 13 2014 16:48 Ryuu314 wrote:
I'm not saying SHRC doesn't deserve to be in the finals or that there's something wrong with it. EDG and OMG played bad and don't deserve to move on.
Rather, I'm trying to deflate the SHRC kool aid, specifically the Zero = Kobe Bryant bullshit.
The only person on SHRC who's legitimately world class is Uzi. Insec and Zero are good, but not amazing.
Zero is definitely world class, he's no mata, but he's still fucking amazing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
