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On October 13 2014 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 16:45 JSH wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with SHRC being in finals
They got there by beating teams, even if the other team threw and/or they had easier opponents
You can say they got lucky, but all in all, they made it to the end
Saying they don't deserve to be in the spot seems silly
You can't just hope for that dream finals all the time
Too many variables
Even Flash dropped games! They got lucky by beating a team that 3-0'd the 3rd best korean team. People are fucking stupid, Royal deserves to be in the fucking final. No matter what happened the final was set up to be a 3-0 anyways, SSW just that much better than everyone else.
they got lucky because Group B was a free pass (thanks Svenskeren!) and EDG played uncharacteristically bad (specifically Namei).
OMG probably could've won the series if they didn't Dignitas baron so many times, but there's a reason why they're third seed so that series wasn't really luck.
I just don't get the Zero hype. He's a solid support, sure, but his vision control is not good and the other aspects of his play aren't anything mindblowing.
I think a lot of how good he seems is actually just Uzi being a god. I mean, last year you had Uzi pulling the same shit with Tabe, who is arguably worse than Zero.
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On October 13 2014 16:52 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 16:49 wei2coolman wrote:On October 13 2014 16:45 JSH wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with SHRC being in finals
They got there by beating teams, even if the other team threw and/or they had easier opponents
You can say they got lucky, but all in all, they made it to the end
Saying they don't deserve to be in the spot seems silly
You can't just hope for that dream finals all the time
Too many variables
Even Flash dropped games! They got lucky by beating a team that 3-0'd the 3rd best korean team. People are fucking stupid, Royal deserves to be in the fucking final. No matter what happened the final was set up to be a 3-0 anyways, SSW just that much better than everyone else. they got lucky because Group B was a free pass (thanks Svenskeren!) and EDG played uncharacteristically bad (specifically Namei). OMG probably could've won the series if they didn't Dignitas baron so many times, but there's a reason why they're third seed so that series wasn't really luck.
Your literally complaining about the 3rd most skilled team at world's making it to the final. Rofl.
Like what do you want from royal? No one is fucking drinking the shrc koolaid, no one is even saying they'll take a game of white. Their superstar players are good because they can force teams into their style of play.
Lol. Zero's vision control is completely marred by his team. There's a fucking 4 ward limit, do you seriously expect zero to provide full map vision for his entire team? Rofl. It's like judging a guy's ability to run a marathon while dragging around a dead carcass.
This is literally how you sound 'top 2 botane combo in the world, arguably the best in the world. Yeah that zero support guy. He's just 'ok''
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TSM took a game off SHRC on a Catelyn/Fizz/Ryze comp and people are bragging all day....lol. I understand people want to downgrade SHRC since they are not playing the orthodox LoL games which Koean write the Bible on. But TSM is not a good bait at all. At least SHRC did manage to win SK w/ Sven to get that luck trip to Final, which TSM fails to do that.
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Y'all are silly. They got lucky because njws was a patch team and not third best in Korea. KTA and SKTT1K are both better 90%of the time, and are both better teams for stomping internationals. I was qqing about this in the ogn summer thread. Plus Skt truly has fallen apart.
The problem is that the Najin that qualified was an enigma that could not be sustained, because they were mostly never a top 5 team in kr, except for a week.
Edit. It has nothing to do with them not being good. They are a #1lcs team. Easily
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On October 13 2014 17:09 cLutZ wrote:
Y'all are silly. They got lucky because njws was a patch team and not third best in Korea. KTA and SKTT1K are both better 90%of the time, and are both better teams for stomping internationals. I was qqing about this in the ogn summer thread. Plus Skt truly has fallen apart.
The problem is that the Najin that qualified was an enigma that could not be sustained, because they were mostly never a top 5 team in kr, except for a week.
They played series for it... they earned their spot.
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On October 13 2014 17:09 cLutZ wrote:
Y'all are silly. They got lucky because njws was a patch team and not third best in Korea. KTA and SKTT1K are both better 90%of the time, and are both better teams for stomping internationals. I was qqing about this in the ogn summer thread. Plus Skt truly has fallen apart.
So what's the difference between the patch on Korean regionals and the patch on Worlds?
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Being first vs being the best. This is how blue beat white so often. Just knowing how to exploit patches with less than 5 or at most 10 competitive games played on them.
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If anything the turn of events makes me wish so much more that there were more meaningful international events. (WCG stopped being meaningful by the time League got big, IEM is all over the place, and BotA is a joke -- it's just like a more spruced up version of LNL in terms of international-ness)
Royal has nothing to their name apart from making it to 2 finals off the back of not-meeting-any-KR-teams on route
OMG has nothing to their name apart from losing to Royal twice in WCs and getting stomped by SKT in All-Stars
EDG has nothing to their name apart from being a disappointment in S4WCs
WE has nothing to their name apart from IPL5, and many western fans are even like "what's an IPL"
TPA has nothing to their name apart from winning S2WC, and respectable placing at IPL (again, what's an IPL)
Fnatic has nothing to their name apart S1WC
NA as a region has nothing.
M5/Gambit's glory days died along with non-riot international League tournaments
(I'm exaggerating, and the dominance of KR plays a big role but the whole feeling is so... urgh. The history of league ever since independent international tournaments got axed seems so one-dimensional, linear and uninteresting in hindsight lol
Kespa gimme KespaCup pls. Maybe I'll forgive you for indirectly axing Masters by scrapping sister teams then)
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I want 2 equally blessed team fight each other
It's season 3/2 finals over again where superior laning wins game. I want 2 equally blessed fight over in the finals but it will never happend due the format.
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On October 13 2014 15:59 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 15:59 wei2coolman wrote:On October 13 2014 15:56 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 13 2014 15:50 orzeu wrote:On October 13 2014 15:43 Ryuu314 wrote:
lol, you guys are just completely ignoring the fact that Royal split 1-1 with TSM of all teams in groups, plus the fact that in virtually every game except game 5 of the OMG v. Royal series, Royal got their ass spanked up until OMG did something amazingly stupid.
Zero is good, but he's not that good. Uzi, however, is that good. and? TSM lost to SK and bo1 doesn't mean shit. that's my point. TSM isn't near top tier and yet Royal went 1-1. At least White's excuse for losing to TSM was arrogance and they proved that in the Blue v. White series. (Also worth noting that TSM's loss to SK was SK with Svenskeren. If Sven didn't get himself banned, I'm pretty sure SK would've made it out of groups or at least force tiebreakers) Royal barely scraped through in both their matches against their Chinese compatriots and only because EDG played uncharacteristically bad, while OMG couldn't help but throw twice. The Royal Club kool-aid is too strong. SSW dropped a game in a bo5 format to TSM, your point? did you even read the quoted post? my point is Royal lucked their way into the finals and I'm gonna be surprised if White doesn't stomp them as hard as SKT did.
Your posts and arguments are so biased I cannot believe it.
And what does White potentially stomping them have to do with them lucking their way? Did Blue also luck their way to the semis then? They got stomped the hardest of any team at this turnament by White.
I don't ever get why people need to berate a team that in ANY sports made a finals in a "world cup" championship. It is by definition; one of the best teams in the world.
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My biggest problem is that if OMG beat RC, then we could make a case for them being the 3rd best team in the world. I think it's safe to say they'd beat anyone below KTA, and arguable whether they would beat Arrows and T1K. But as most people would probably agree, their loss to RC was more on them than on RC. And unless RC pull some crazy upset then I doubt many will call them one of the best in the world. If an LPL team gets invited to OGN in the end then I really hope it's OMG.
Also, Worlds' problem isn't the tournament's format. It's the fact that this is the only real international tournament we see. And it's because Riot's throwing money to have every league and every pro team under their control.
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United States37500 Posts
So much hubbub about nothing...
Those of you that think Royal luckbox'd their way into another finals, who would you rather face off against White? It's obv not Blue.
I think it's safe to say that every fan wants more international competitions but that's not going to happen in S5. (but hey, there's going to be IEM San Jose, npnpnp off season event).
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I think the idea is that some people see some hope of OMG going 1-3 against White wheras Royal will more likely than not go 0-3
But obviously all Royal going 0-3 will prove is that TSM is the second best team in the world
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SHRC, and Royal Club in Season 3 were not the only teams that managed to achieve more than their team strength indicated.
Azubu Frost was NOT the second best team in the world at the Season 2 World Championship.
Najin Sword was already the superior team, and when these two practiced against one another in LA Najin Sword came out on top more often than not. They also happened to piss all over them a couple of months later. Azubu Blaze was also the superior team that often came out on top during practice, but failed due to Ambition overlooking the power of Diana because he kept stomping Zz1tai's Diana during practice, and their over confidence bit them in the ass (Reapered said it was hard not to be overconfident due to their extremely high win rates against everybody during scrims), but they were clearly the superior team like Samsung Galaxy White was the superior of the two sister teams despite Dade discovering the might of Yasuo earlier on.
That's just two teams that was ahead of them in their domestic circuit, and a good case could be made for Moscow 5. I can go into the specifics a little more with Season 2, because Riot Gaming hadn't yet gotten across their agenda to format cross-regional competition EXACTLY the way they wish it to be.
I personally believe that the level of destruction Samsung Galaxy White laid on their sister teams is what should happen to an inferior team that runs out of tricks, and has their every move already mapped out in the minds of their opponents. I want perfection, and teams with obvious flaws to get stomped for having it, not a bunch of one trick ponies hoping that their lucky punch manages to catch the other off guard. Star Horn Royal Club has glimpses of what composes a good team, but in the overall picture are so bad that over the long haul, not a couple of series done over a hectic schedule in multiple locations, their weaknesses will be exploited inside out by any of the decent teams.
Let's say SHRC were to stay in Korea and scrim against all the top Korean teams for weeks on end, and all their pocket picks, tendencies, and map movements were analyzed to the last inch. I'll bet any amount of money that they'll never be able to replicate what they have accomplished in this tournament.
It's not to say what SHRC achieved this tournament was done in a fortuitous manner, it's just clear to everybody watching that how the tournament is set up (teams travelling from all over the place, little to no analysis, hectic scheduling/constant location switching and Riot patented last minute finalizations of the tournament details that basically ensures minimal specific preparation), some teams (especially if they are good at certain aspects of the game like SHRC is) benefit more from having HUGE gaping weaknesses.
We all know how an optimal World Championships from a Riot Gaming's point of view would look like, and to increase the number of international tournaments with better planned out brackets and scheduling would foster the exact opposite results of what Riot Gaming wishes to gain. Showing exactly how deep, or shallow, a team's overall strength in a strenuous, well thought manner is the last thing Riot Gaming wants. They want upsets. They want chaos. Some teams thrive within this type of situation (solo-que-esque teams like Najin Black Sword comes to mind), whereas some thrive in tournaments that require more meticulous planning. All we know is that Riot Gaming only wants one type of tournament (and wants the total number to a bare minimum, so any conclusions to sooth the viewers can be drawn with a little twist in logic), and they are not going to go in a direction where teams with really bad flaws get punished badly.
What's sad is, even with all this planning, the teams that all this elaborate formatting was created for never manage to do anything with it, and can console themselves with the delusion that things could have been different had certain things gone their way when the fact of the matter is that it is pretty much a lopsided deal in their favour. Back to streaming it is, and people wonder why they cannot beat truly dedicated professional players, when the notion of really talented Afreeca streamers being less competitive than elite professionals is so easy to understand.
Enough ranting, but seriously, SHRC would have been a wicked team back when everybody were basically glorified solo-que players, but it's a testament of how bad the truly professional teams are that they cannot take down such a flawed team, and also a statement of what kind of tournament Riot Gaming wishes to produce for their audience.
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what are these "truly professional teams" of which you speak?
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On October 13 2014 22:20 Kupon3ss wrote:
what are these "truly professional teams" of which you speak?
For example, I consider OMG to be a better team than SHRC regardless of the results of this tournament. I personally have huge problems taking SHRC as a legitimately elite team.
These are just my thoughts, but I don't consider any of the Western teams to be professional gamers. They're just streamers who compete professionally. They're kind of doing what ex-professionals like Bisu is doing right now. They don't practice as hard, and even when they do put in the effort, it's kind of like taking short cuts to getting good results under the circumstances Riot Gaming has laid out instead of being legitimately great.
Before I list the typical list of elite tier Korean teams that everybody will roll thei eyes over, I actually like SK Telecom T1 S. I like OMG better than SHRC, even thought I'm much more fond of the individual players from SHRC. I like Jin Air Stealths, and thought Fly was wonderful. These are teams I see a future, even if they have existing problems right now, whereas with SHRC, it's like they honed what they are good at right now in the short term, and I don't think they can hope to achieve much more with how they operate as a team. Their coach even said that he prefers to let them practice in solo-que instead of scrimming as a team because their obvious limitations during scrims get exploited, which leads them to rage against one another (that's the feeling I got anyways). That's not what constitues a good team in my mind, even if they managed to get good results in the biggest tournament of the year.
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Again, no one gives royal club any legitimacy because they keep picking rock in rock paper scissors and keep winning.
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United States37500 Posts
While I have no problem with people thinking OMG would be a better matchup against White in the finals, I do think that a lot of you are discrediting Royal by a large margin. Frankly, what good is OMG's ability to stand up to White if they can't even beat Royal in the first place. I feel like S4 finals is just going to be a repeat of S3, regardless of which CN team made it in.
Also, a T1 S fan? wtf is this. I think if T1 S wasn't under the SKT brand, they would stand out even more as a mediocre KR team. It's like fans put hope in T1 S just because they're a sister team. To me, they're like the quintessential "potential" team from KR. They've been together for multiple OGN seasons and they haven't really amounted to much.
Stealths on the other hand, I can easily see why fans cheer and have faith in them.
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EPT
