• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:24
CEST 18:24
KST 01:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2312Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder Syncronization issues and can't find games an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot NaDa's Body BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27!
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7460 users

[NA LCS] Summer 2014 Week 2 - Page 78

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 76 77 78 79 80 81 Next
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 06:49 GMT
#1541
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 06:51 GMT
#1542
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-02 06:54:26
June 02 2014 06:53 GMT
#1543
On June 02 2014 15:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.

Except the fact that he keeps picking lee sin/elise this split over that other stuff, cuz they're clearly contested picks in the current meta.
On June 02 2014 15:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv


Except every single team disagrees with this, cuz jax eating far more bans than shyv.
liftlift > tsm
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 06:54 GMT
#1544
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 06:55 GMT
#1545
On June 02 2014 15:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.

Except the fact that he keeps picking lee sin/elise this split over that other stuff, cuz they're clearly contested picks in the current meta.
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv


Except every single team disagrees with this, cuz jax eating far more bans than shyv.


they're wrong, and what does it matter if dyrus doesn't play jax
O-ops
Profile Joined February 2009
United States4236 Posts
June 02 2014 06:57 GMT
#1546
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.


wat.
Fan of the Jangbanger
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-02 06:58:45
June 02 2014 06:57 GMT
#1547
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.

Crumbz on lee sin = really comfortable + lee sin is strong vs amazing: uncomfortable and on 2nd tier jungler

vs

Crumbz on (x jungler you think he's comfortable + 2nd tier jungler) on vs amazing : uncomfortable 2nd tier jungler.

the "lee sin is strong compared to 2nd tier jungler" component is a big enough reason to warrant the ban.
On June 02 2014 15:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:53 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.

Except the fact that he keeps picking lee sin/elise this split over that other stuff, cuz they're clearly contested picks in the current meta.
On June 02 2014 15:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv


Except every single team disagrees with this, cuz jax eating far more bans than shyv.


they're wrong, and what does it matter if dyrus doesn't play jax

yeah, the top 8 teams in NA are wrong. Cuz you know so much better bly. Jax is way shittier than Shyv, that's why Jax has eaten like a 90% ban rate. lol.
liftlift > tsm
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 06:58 GMT
#1548
On June 02 2014 15:57 O-ops wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.


wat.


what I meant was, if khazix, elise, evelyn, and lee sin are all banned, then crumbz would still have the advantage because he has a wider jungler pool than amazing. Next time you need clarification feel free to ask.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 07:00 GMT
#1549
On June 02 2014 15:57 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.

Crumbz on lee sin = really comfortable + lee sin is strong vs amazing: uncomfortable and on 2nd tier jungler

vs

Crumbz on (x jungler you think he's comfortable + 2nd tier jungler) on vs amazing : uncomfortable 2nd tier jungler.

the "lee sin is strong compared to 2nd tier jungler" component is a big enough reason to warrant the ban.
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:53 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.

Except the fact that he keeps picking lee sin/elise this split over that other stuff, cuz they're clearly contested picks in the current meta.
On June 02 2014 15:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv


Except every single team disagrees with this, cuz jax eating far more bans than shyv.


they're wrong, and what does it matter if dyrus doesn't play jax

yeah, the top 8 teams in NA are wrong. Cuz you know so much better bly. Jax is way shittier than Shyv, that's why Jax has eaten like a 90% ban rate. lol.


not as the cost of giving up shyv, with or without jax being banned. the jax bans are either target bans vs. zion, or when teams are first picking shyvanna, I just looked it up. Why do you make me do this shit.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 07:02 GMT
#1550
are you guys still arguing because you believe in what you're saying or you just don't want me being right, I can't tell.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-02 07:05:29
June 02 2014 07:04 GMT
#1551
On June 02 2014 16:00 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:57 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.

Crumbz on lee sin = really comfortable + lee sin is strong vs amazing: uncomfortable and on 2nd tier jungler

vs

Crumbz on (x jungler you think he's comfortable + 2nd tier jungler) on vs amazing : uncomfortable 2nd tier jungler.

the "lee sin is strong compared to 2nd tier jungler" component is a big enough reason to warrant the ban.
On June 02 2014 15:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:53 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.

Except the fact that he keeps picking lee sin/elise this split over that other stuff, cuz they're clearly contested picks in the current meta.
On June 02 2014 15:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv


Except every single team disagrees with this, cuz jax eating far more bans than shyv.


they're wrong, and what does it matter if dyrus doesn't play jax

yeah, the top 8 teams in NA are wrong. Cuz you know so much better bly. Jax is way shittier than Shyv, that's why Jax has eaten like a 90% ban rate. lol.


not as the cost of giving up shyv, with or without jax being banned. the jax bans are either target bans vs. zion, or when teams are first picking shyvanna, I just looked it up. Why do you make me do this shit.

Are you mentally ill? rofl, all the jax bans this split have been targeted fucking every toplaner.

Also, lets put this in perspective. TSM banned Kass/Leblanc/Lucian. You telling me they couldn't sac the lucian ban for a lee sin ban here?
liftlift > tsm
O-ops
Profile Joined February 2009
United States4236 Posts
June 02 2014 07:04 GMT
#1552
On June 02 2014 15:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:53 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.

Except the fact that he keeps picking lee sin/elise this split over that other stuff, cuz they're clearly contested picks in the current meta.
On June 02 2014 15:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv


Except every single team disagrees with this, cuz jax eating far more bans than shyv.


they're wrong, and what does it matter if dyrus doesn't play jax


It doesn't matter if dyrus play anything against these 3 teams since they know Dyrus would get shit on with any pick if his jungler gives him less pressure than theirs. All three games, Dyrus received a grand total of 0 target ban.

These three teams know their junglers are good. They're not gonna give a shit about shy's record lol.
Fan of the Jangbanger
O-ops
Profile Joined February 2009
United States4236 Posts
June 02 2014 07:05 GMT
#1553
On June 02 2014 15:58 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:57 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.


wat.


what I meant was, if khazix, elise, evelyn, and lee sin are all banned, then crumbz would still have the advantage because he has a wider jungler pool than amazing. Next time you need clarification feel free to ask.


wat
Fan of the Jangbanger
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 07:06 GMT
#1554
On June 02 2014 16:04 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 16:00 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:57 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.

Crumbz on lee sin = really comfortable + lee sin is strong vs amazing: uncomfortable and on 2nd tier jungler

vs

Crumbz on (x jungler you think he's comfortable + 2nd tier jungler) on vs amazing : uncomfortable 2nd tier jungler.

the "lee sin is strong compared to 2nd tier jungler" component is a big enough reason to warrant the ban.
On June 02 2014 15:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:53 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.

Except the fact that he keeps picking lee sin/elise this split over that other stuff, cuz they're clearly contested picks in the current meta.
On June 02 2014 15:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv


Except every single team disagrees with this, cuz jax eating far more bans than shyv.


they're wrong, and what does it matter if dyrus doesn't play jax

yeah, the top 8 teams in NA are wrong. Cuz you know so much better bly. Jax is way shittier than Shyv, that's why Jax has eaten like a 90% ban rate. lol.


not as the cost of giving up shyv, with or without jax being banned. the jax bans are either target bans vs. zion, or when teams are first picking shyvanna, I just looked it up. Why do you make me do this shit.

Are you mentally ill? rofl, all the jax bans this split have been targeted fucking every toplaner.


you see, when a top laner such as Dyrus doesn't play jax competitively, teams do not need to, and have not banned it against him; hence the difference between a targeted jax ban vs. someone who plays it very well like zion and a non target, general ban such as kassadin, shyvana, etc.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 07:07 GMT
#1555
On June 02 2014 16:05 O-ops wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:58 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:57 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.


wat.


what I meant was, if khazix, elise, evelyn, and lee sin are all banned, then crumbz would still have the advantage because he has a wider jungler pool than amazing. Next time you need clarification feel free to ask.


wat


Crumbz has a wide jungler pool, he plays a lot of junglers, Amazing doesn't play a lot of junglers and thus has a narrow jungler pool, as shown thus far in NA Summer split.
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
June 02 2014 07:09 GMT
#1556
Ust watched the vod, holy shit kiwikid with the fucking god bubble on turtle.

Classic na baron throw twice in a single game
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
June 02 2014 07:12 GMT
#1557
On June 02 2014 16:04 O-ops wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 15:55 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:53 wei2coolman wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:49 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
let's say kha/eve/elise are banned, jungler A aka Diginitas Crumbzz can play xin and lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing can only play lee.

If team Solomid bans lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz can still play xin, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know
If team Dignitas does not ban lee, jungler A aka Dignitas Crumbzz picks lee, jungler B aka TSM Amazing will have to play a champion he doesn't know

This is assuming team Dignitas bans lee instead of shyvana, which they would pick if team Solomid picks lee.

In which of these scenarios does banning lee make sense?

Shyv is ilke 27-3 both region's splits combined so far this season. Are you monte?


....so with this edited post, where is the assumption that crumbz can play xin is coming from? Haven't touched xin once last split either, out of the 8 junglers he played.

It's like, every jungler plays those 4 and pretty much only those 4. I don't even know why you are assuming that these other junglers had some secret tech outside those 4 that make them such bullies over amazing when he had to pick something other than kha/elise/lee/eve. They're all equally shitty lol, which make banning lee sin even more tempting since without jungle pressure there are no one that can cleanly beat dyrus top and bjerg mid. Bot's rather iffy but they're still nowhere near Wiz/Daydream.


crumbz is good at xin/kayle/vi/wu, I'm sure he wouldn'tve cared if he had to play any of those vs. something Amazing couldn't play.

Except the fact that he keeps picking lee sin/elise this split over that other stuff, cuz they're clearly contested picks in the current meta.
On June 02 2014 15:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:47 Ym1r wrote:
Definitely banning Lee Sin would have been the better choice for TSM.

The bans were obviously targeted towards Amazing to make him uncomfortable as possible, so removing all the great junglers from the pool makes both teams have stupid subpar junglers.

If they ban Lee Sin and dig took Shyvana first, there's still jax open. It's much better match than giving them a great jungler while your team is stuck with a useless jungler.


Dyrus can't jax and I don't think jax is nearly as good as shyv


Except every single team disagrees with this, cuz jax eating far more bans than shyv.


they're wrong, and what does it matter if dyrus doesn't play jax


It doesn't matter if dyrus play anything against these 3 teams since they know Dyrus would get shit on with any pick if his jungler gives him less pressure than theirs. All three games, Dyrus received a grand total of 0 target ban.

These three teams know their junglers are good. They're not gonna give a shit about shy's record lol.


so basically you're arguing lee sin is more op than shyvanna, good for you.
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
June 02 2014 07:15 GMT
#1558
i think the argument is:
monte and others think that there are 4 jungle champions that are clearly a tier above the rest, if the opponent bans 3 of those, you should ban the fourth so you dont end up playing one of the second tier jungle vs a tier 1 jungle.

bly thinks that there are other equivalently strong jungle champion and that each player's familiarity with each champions more than makes up for champion's inherent strengths disparity.


About monte attention whoring on twitter with his comment.. of course he is, that's what twitter is for, getting your name out there and all that stuff.
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
O-ops
Profile Joined February 2009
United States4236 Posts
June 02 2014 07:17 GMT
#1559
On June 02 2014 16:07 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2014 16:05 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:58 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:57 O-ops wrote:
On June 02 2014 15:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:
hey, i'm talking about if crumbz is better at non top 4 champs than amazing is, the answer is obviously yes, if the top 4 are banned, it is of my opinion that crumbz would feel more comfortable with whatever jungler he picks than amazing with w/e jungler he picks. That is the topic of my current argument.


wat.


what I meant was, if khazix, elise, evelyn, and lee sin are all banned, then crumbz would still have the advantage because he has a wider jungler pool than amazing. Next time you need clarification feel free to ask.


wat


Crumbz has a wide jungler pool, he plays a lot of junglers, Amazing doesn't play a lot of junglers and thus has a narrow jungler pool, as shown thus far in NA Summer split.


What?

Crumbz played those 4 all 6 games lol.

Where did he show that he can play something outside those 4?
Fan of the Jangbanger
Ym1r
Profile Joined May 2009
United States1164 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-02 07:19:01
June 02 2014 07:18 GMT
#1560
It was obvious from the bans that dig were going to first pick Lee Sin regardless of what TSM banned (Unless they banned Lee Sin). TSM should have read it and at least put the game on even ground with two useless junglers who don't exert as much pressure as the top 4.

If Shyv is stronger than Lee Sin, why didn't dig take her over Lee Sin? It's because they were not scared of either Dyrus Jax nor Dyrus Shyvana (or just Dyrus in general) cause he has terrible carry potential. They took Lee Sin to remove any sort of pressure Amazing could have put out.

Dig put a lot of faith in their solo laners, especially Zion to ban all three junglers, and it paid off.

I highly doubt Dig would do this to CLG. Dexter doesn't necessarily have a wide pool either, but they would leave up Shyv or Jax for Seraph.
im ji geum - ellin - eunji - spica - a pink - naeun - sojinyura - HAERYUNG<3 - Red Velvet
Prev 1 76 77 78 79 80 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
WardiTV 10 Playoffs
ByuN vs ClassicLIVE!
Clem vs RogueLIVE!
SHIN vs TBD
WardiTV1366
IntoTheiNu 783
TaKeTV 423
IndyStarCraft 215
Rex162
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 235
Rex 167
BRAT_OK 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 46403
Shuttle 1282
BeSt 900
Mini 570
actioN 429
ggaemo 182
Dewaltoss 71
Barracks 58
Hyun 46
sSak 44
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 40
910 33
NaDa 30
soO 28
zelot 28
Bale 23
Trap 20
Rock 19
Free 12
yabsab 12
Dota 2
Gorgc7080
Dendi696
BananaSlamJamma118
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor317
Other Games
singsing1579
B2W.Neo927
Beastyqt427
ArmadaUGS136
KnowMe129
Mew2King54
Trikslyr44
Chillindude8
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream17359
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 1632
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 279
Other Games
BasetradeTV83
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH256
• StrangeGG 29
• Airneanach14
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 24
• Michael_bg 12
• FirePhoenix10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV374
League of Legends
• Nemesis5048
• Jankos3077
Other Games
• Shiphtur269
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
36m
BSL: Ladder Tournament
2h 36m
GSL
15h 36m
Yamato Cup
22h 36m
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 2h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 17h
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
1d 18h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 23h
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Online Event
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.