EPT[IEM] Season 8 World Championship - Page 249
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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lefty
United States1896 Posts
On March 17 2014 06:30 Swagasaurus wrote: That's pretty insulting to LCS players (he was talking about LCS players, not just NA players) to assume that they stopped trying at the end of season 2. I don't think it's fair to apply your sensibilities to people who have actually experienced pro gaming success at a high level, those guys are EXTREMLY competitive, thats why they're good at the game and why they are on pro teams. If they truly didn't think they had any realistic shot at ever beating koreans they would probably just retire/become full time streamers. Also, KTB is one of the best teams in Korea, i'm tired of people saying theyre "not even the best team in korea" they are one of the top 3 or 4 teams from KR, a region where the skill gap between teams is MUCH smaller compared to a region like NA where the top teams are WAY way better than the bottom teams. After watching this IEM and comparing it to the matches at World's, even though Fnatic lost 3-0 to KTB, it seems like the LCS teams are closing the gap to the Koreans, very slowly but surely. The LCS teams have likely surpassed the chinese/SEA teams (for the time being) and the gap between the top EU and NA teams is almost negligible at this point. On what evidence? If anything, the gap has widened. In 2012, teams like CLG were able to beat top 8 teams like MVP Blue and IM, now I think any top 8 Korean team could've come to IEM instead of KT B and still won the tournament. The best chance of LCS teams beating Korean teams will come when there is a huge patch leading to a huge change in the meta right before a tournament, like the one before S3 Worlds. Generally NA/EU gets patched weeks in advance, and would have extra time to find out what to abuse. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On March 17 2014 06:30 Swagasaurus wrote: That's pretty insulting to LCS players (he was talking about LCS players, not just NA players) to assume that they stopped trying at the end of season 2. I don't think it's fair to apply your sensibilities to people who have actually experienced pro gaming success at a high level, those guys are EXTREMLY competitive, thats why they're good at the game and why they are on pro teams. If they truly didn't think they had any realistic shot at ever beating koreans they would probably just retire/become full time streamers. Also, KTB is one of the best teams in Korea, i'm tired of people saying theyre "not even the best team in korea" they are one of the top 3 or 4 teams from KR, a region where the skill gap between teams is MUCH smaller compared to a region like NA where the top teams are WAY way better than the bottom teams. After watching this IEM and comparing it to the matches at World's, even though Fnatic lost 3-0 to KTB, it seems like the LCS teams are closing the gap to the Koreans, very slowly but surely. The LCS teams have likely surpassed the chinese/SEA teams (for the time being) and the gap between the top EU and NA teams is almost negligible at this point. KT B 7-0 after 2 weeks with their new roster and Insec touching the jungle competitively for the first time in 8 months. | ||
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skykh
3006 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On March 17 2014 06:28 ZCive2 wrote: so what's the prizepool on allstars/ World championship? World prize pool was $2.05million, broken down here: http://lol.gamepedia.com/Season_3_World_Championship On March 17 2014 06:25 Reggiegigas wrote: Haha no dude, have you ever checked TSM's record against korean teams? TSM's forte has always been winning in the NA region. c9 has a positive record against TSM and is still better even though c9 might be #2 on the ranking currently, imo. They have some weak spots definitely and bjergerking is prolly better than hai. I don't think TSM would've done as well as c9 did at the tournament. c9 got quite far, after all. C9's record agaist TSM this split is misleading. Their first win was the result of an oddball strat that nobody has played against in the NA scene and nobody has used since. Their second win was against TSM that had Regi, with only a week of play, subbing for the best player on the team. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
On March 17 2014 06:25 Reggiegigas wrote: Haha no dude, have you ever checked TSM's record against korean teams? Have you checked out TSM's roster this season? They're quite a bit better than when they played in Worlds last year, or against Blaze. TSM is most likely better than C9 at this point in time (C9's first win against them was a fluke, and the second was when Regi was subbing for Bjerg), so I honestly think that they could've put up a fight against KTB. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22352 Posts
On March 17 2014 07:18 Headshot wrote: Have you checked out TSM's roster this season? They're quite a bit better than when they played in Worlds last year, or against Blaze. TSM is most likely better than C9 at this point in time (C9's first win against them was a fluke, and the second was when Regi was subbing for Bjerg), so I honestly think that they could've put up a fight against KTB. The best team in the US might be able to compete with the 9th orso team in Korean. Yeah the gap sure isn't widening. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On the other hand though their early game gank execution looked really off. Not just messing up ganks, but dying under turret several times and trading evenly is not something you want to do against other Korean teams who know how to snowball games and counter jungle pressure. This is where Kakao was a much better jungler. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On March 17 2014 06:30 Swagasaurus wrote: That's pretty insulting to LCS players (he was talking about LCS players, not just NA players) to assume that they stopped trying at the end of season 2. I don't think it's fair to apply your sensibilities to people who have actually experienced pro gaming success at a high level, those guys are EXTREMLY competitive, thats why they're good at the game and why they are on pro teams. If they truly didn't think they had any realistic shot at ever beating koreans they would probably just retire/become full time streamers. Also, KTB is one of the best teams in Korea, i'm tired of people saying theyre "not even the best team in korea" they are one of the top 3 or 4 teams from KR, a region where the skill gap between teams is MUCH smaller compared to a region like NA where the top teams are WAY way better than the bottom teams. After watching this IEM and comparing it to the matches at World's, even though Fnatic lost 3-0 to KTB, it seems like the LCS teams are closing the gap to the Koreans, very slowly but surely. The LCS teams have likely surpassed the chinese/SEA teams (for the time being) and the gap between the top EU and NA teams is almost negligible at this point. iG went 1-1 with Fnatic. iG is the lowest ranked team in LPL. On March 17 2014 07:18 Headshot wrote: Have you checked out TSM's roster this season? They're quite a bit better than when they played in Worlds last year, or against Blaze. TSM is most likely better than C9 at this point in time (C9's first win against them was a fluke, and the second was when Regi was subbing for Bjerg), so I honestly think that they could've put up a fight against KTB. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that according to LMQ, they can beat TSM in scrims but not C9. They say C9 is much better than TSM. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On March 17 2014 07:33 onlywonderboy wrote: I know KT B has been faltering as of late, but I think people are being quick to say they are the "9th best team in KR." I think we need to wait for some OGN results and see if NJBS and MVP Blue really look that much better than them in groups. I think it's clear they still aren't their former selves, but if they pull it together they might be a semi-finals team again. Tbh many OGN teams seem mediocre if you compare them with the likes of SKT. When you look at the current matches that have been played in OGN (OGN matters more than Masters), none of the top tier teams have played eachother yet except SKT S vs K. We have to wait for Ozone v Frost, SKT teams vs Arrows, Sword v Bullets v Blue & Blaze vs Shield. Imo it's really hard at the moment to get a solid KR power ranking going, apart from the SKT K dominance. @Cheep: Fnatic also went 2-1 vs C9 who dismantled TPA and WE. On another note, I do think we have too few matches to seriously say something about the EU vs NA vs CN results. The sample size is just too small with too much room for upsets/team inconsistency. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
On March 17 2014 07:33 onlywonderboy wrote: I know KT B has been faltering as of late, but I think people are being quick to say they are the "9th best team in KR." I think we need to wait for some OGN results and see if NJBS and MVP Blue really look that much better than them in groups. I think it's clear they still aren't their former selves, but if they pull it together they might be a semi-finals team again. yeah anyone speaking with any kind of certainty about KT B's strength is talking out of their ass. no one has an idea what level of play to expect from insec and leopard. they could still be the second best team in the world or they could get laughed out of groups, neither would be incredibly surprising. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On March 17 2014 07:41 Doctorbeat wrote: Tbh many OGN teams seem mediocre if you compare them with the likes of SKT. When you look at the current matches that have been played in OGN (OGN matters more than Masters), none of the top tier teams have played eachother yet except SKT S vs K. We have to wait for Ozone v Frost, SKT teams vs Arrows, Sword v Bullets v Blue & Blaze vs Shield. Imo it's really hard at the moment to get a solid KR power ranking going, apart from the SKT K dominance. @Cheep: Fnatic also went 2-1 vs C9 who dismantled TPA and WE. On another note, I do think we have too few matches to seriously say something about the EU vs NA vs CN results. The sample size is just too small with too much room for upsets/team inconsistency. The thing with this season's OGN is that all the sister teams have stepped up. Previously teams like NJWS, Blue, Arrows were all jokes but that's not the case anymore, and I definitely don't think it's because other teams have gotten worse. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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Thinasy
2856 Posts
On March 17 2014 06:30 Swagasaurus wrote: That's pretty insulting to LCS players (he was talking about LCS players, not just NA players) to assume that they stopped trying at the end of season 2. I don't think it's fair to apply your sensibilities to people who have actually experienced pro gaming success at a high level, those guys are EXTREMLY competitive, thats why they're good at the game and why they are on pro teams. If they truly didn't think they had any realistic shot at ever beating koreans they would probably just retire/become full time streamers. Also, KTB is one of the best teams in Korea, i'm tired of people saying theyre "not even the best team in korea" they are one of the top 3 or 4 teams from KR, a region where the skill gap between teams is MUCH smaller compared to a region like NA where the top teams are WAY way better than the bottom teams. After watching this IEM and comparing it to the matches at World's, even though Fnatic lost 3-0 to KTB, it seems like the LCS teams are closing the gap to the Koreans, very slowly but surely. The LCS teams have likely surpassed the chinese/SEA teams (for the time being) and the gap between the top EU and NA teams is almost negligible at this point. Watch more OGN, then post. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On March 17 2014 07:45 Itsmedudeman wrote: The thing with this season's OGN is that all the sister teams have stepped up. Previously teams like NJWS, Blue, Arrows were all jokes but that's not the case anymore, and I definitely don't think it's because other teams have gotten worse. True. But we can't really base too much off games vs Jin Air, Prime, MIDAS or IM since they are the underdogs in the matchups that have been played. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 17 2014 07:38 Itsmedudeman wrote: The KT B at this tournament was significantly better than the one that lost to IM twice. For one, Insec was actually the star instead of a feeder. He was the main reason KT B lost to IM in both those games. Also, their late game execution was incredibly strong, even by Korean standards. One of the few teams that really know how to close out games, even when they only have a couple thousand gold lead and/or have a weaker late game team composition. That's because the way Insec plays involves making flashy, high-risk plays. Which consequently means he will always be the star vs. weaker teams and always be the feeder vs stronger teams. It's a poor quality to have as a jungler at the level of play amongst the top OGN teams because the best teams WILL punish you for playing that way. It can be somewhat desirable to have a player like that on other roles, but jungle definitely not. | ||
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orzeu
Poland5205 Posts
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