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On August 27 2012 11:45 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:41 gtrsrs wrote:
here's my take on the whole thing
curse/dig doing aram was shameful, honestly. on such a big stage, that's like a fuck you to MLG. so they should have expected retaliation
pot splitting is silly, but not "wrong," imo. it's something i would never do myself, i'm far too competitive, i'd rather lose than have a split victory. i do, however, realize that at higher stakes, you're more likely to want an assured prize. maybe i'd change my tune if i was competing for 10-20x more money than SG usually plays for. but if it is against MLG rules, then curse/dig was stupid to try it
MATCH FIXING, however, is a serious problem. fucking with brackets and fucking over other teams is just downright shameful. you can't call a game competitive if there's match fixing, especially at such a high level. if THIS part is true, i've lost a ton of respect for curse/dig. dignitas has been my favorite team for a time, i would really hate for this to be true. if this turns up true, i doubt i'll be watching any dig/curse streams or supporting them. but i've got my fingers crossed that it's not true, for now
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as for what it means for other teams... TD, mme, lgn, orb, nick allen is handsome, SG (hue), KSG, JTU, unR, CLG.B, etc etc etc, all the teams that have potential but have never made it big, should be FOAMING AT THE MOUTH for this to be true. pending possible punishment, this could crack the NA scene wide open. considering how bad TSM.evo is playing, punishment could leave NA to basically be a 2-team scene with only TSM and CLG being competitors. I would think these teams would be praying to karma gods and jumping on a strict practice regimen, because if curse and dignitas go down, season 3 could be anyone's game (at least in NA... i think we kind of have a way to go to catch up to azubu, M5, and some of the other top-tier non-NA teams). s3 gonna be wide open and fun imo I agree with all your points except the first. For me their actions had nothing to do with MLG. The tournament is about showcasing entertaining games FOR THE FANS. The teams wanted to add some excitement and a twist. Well it seems a lot of people enjoyed it so mission accomplished. As long as both teams were still trying to win, thats the thing that really only matters in my eyes.
If it was about entertainment this would have a script. It's about competition. The entertainment comes from the competition.
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On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Show nested quote +Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156
I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened.
If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally.
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On August 27 2012 11:43 Jaksiel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:27 Phrost wrote:
I don't know why people have such a huge hate for prize splitting. I play Magic regularly and people at my store frequently split the prize for top 8 because the risk/reward usually isn't worth it (and at that point a lot of people are sick of playing). I can't fault them for splitting the prize as long as they tried their hardest and played 2-3 solid games. Ah, I got beat to this. Prize-splitting happens frequently at the top tier of competitive MtG. The difference between first and second at a Pro Tour is enormous (currently $40,000 and $20,000) and it often gets split without incident. Of course, there is also the Pro Point system which gives incentive to finish higher, so it's not exactly the same scenario as we had here (where the only extra incentive was pride). EDIT: I'm now reading there may have been talk of actual throwing. I have no problem with prize splitting, but throwing is definitely a big deal.
It is also a timing issue. If the winning team decided to split the money after the match is over, great, more power to them. But talking about splitting the money before hands just opens up a whole can of worms that no one wants to deal with. Also, if they decided who was going to win, that is garbage and they should be banned for a while if that is true.
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Assumnig there was actual collusion, these two teams should be banned from the regionals. But I am afraid this is more like a retaliation from MLG due to the ARAM.
Anyway, like scarra's Twit says, dumbest team NA
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On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I 'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened.If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally.
Doubt that will happen. Dig goes into quiet mode (remember the whole WCG issue?) Crs made a terrible mistake by releasing that apology video.
It is better for everyone involved to chill out and have their management write up and release a statement.
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On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally.
Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing.
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This is just...
Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion.
This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with?
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On August 27 2012 11:43 Jaksiel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:27 Phrost wrote:
I don't know why people have such a huge hate for prize splitting. I play Magic regularly and people at my store frequently split the prize for top 8 because the risk/reward usually isn't worth it (and at that point a lot of people are sick of playing). I can't fault them for splitting the prize as long as they tried their hardest and played 2-3 solid games. Ah, I got beat to this. Prize-splitting happens frequently at the top tier of competitive MtG. The difference between first and second at a Pro Tour is enormous (currently $40,000 and $20,000) and it often gets split without incident. Of course, there is also the Pro Point system which gives incentive to finish higher, so it's not exactly the same scenario as we had here (where the only extra incentive was pride). EDIT: I'm now reading there may have been talk of actual throwing. I have no problem with prize splitting, but throwing is definitely a big deal.
MtG is a lot closer to Poker though, once again random factors play a bigger part. Especially in a situation with a mirror match with two highly skilled players. The skill-cap in MtG is low enough that in such a case you could literally predetermine the winner just by who wins the die-roll to start and what order the cards end up in after the shuffle (small mistakes might happen and there are some situations that come down to judgement calls but mostly this is true). It makes it a completely different thing to splitting the prize money in LoL or another sport like Tennis where it puts a serious question mark over whether the players were giving it their best during the games.
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On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing.
It doesn't look good for either team. But like I said, I'd rather wait for more information.
On August 27 2012 11:54 Femari wrote:This is just... Show nested quote +Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion. This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with?
Why are you even here?
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On August 27 2012 11:50 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I 'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened.If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Doubt that will happen. Dig goes into quiet mode (remember the whole WCG issue?) Crs made a terrible mistake by releasing that apology video. It is better for everyone involved to chill out and have their management write up and release a statement.
Oh, does that mean that we're going to be treated to another round of Dan Dinh and Hotshot ganging up on MattMarcou and demolishing his arguments? I don't even know what those arguments would be in this situation, but can it please happen?
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On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing.
He was talking to Beck supposedly....
Additionally, I don't believe his "we did not rig the matches" claim.
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On August 27 2012 11:56 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing. It doesn't look good for either team. But like I said, I'd rather wait for more information. Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:54 Femari wrote:This is just... Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion. This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with? Why are you even here?
Sunday nights are slow, and not bashing all LoL fans obviously.
Wording could've been better.
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On August 27 2012 11:57 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:56 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing. It doesn't look good for either team. But like I said, I'd rather wait for more information. On August 27 2012 11:54 Femari wrote:This is just... Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion. This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with? Why are you even here? Sunday nights are slow, and not bashing all LoL fans obviously. Wording could've been better.
Kick us while we're down will you?
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On August 27 2012 11:50 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I 'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened.If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Doubt that will happen. Dig goes into quiet mode (remember the whole WCG issue?) Crs made a terrible mistake by releasing that apology video. It is better for everyone involved to chill out and have their management write up and release a statement.
It seems to me more like they don't even know exactly what is going on.
From what I've read - it seems like they agreed on the ARAM and are like
"hey cool the fans will love it then we can battle it out bo5! and then we can split the prize in the spirit of fairness and everyone happy"
Then MLG heard about it - and while they might not care about the ARAM they see the prize-splitting as collusion.
They go to the teams who are (at least Curse - haven't heard much from Dignitas) in the process of like "oh shit everyone's super mad about the ARAM - sorry guys! we were trying to make it MORE exciting! promise! really sorry!"
MLG "hey, angry!"
teams "omg yeah sorry about ARAM really sorry - thought it would be fun and cool really really sorry!"
MLG is like - "hey! prize-splitting! you! thats collusion!"
teams - "collusion? what really omg" (aside) "(hey what does that mean? whats collusion? REAL- *ahem* really? That but whaa--?)"
"No of course not! We really meant the games we swear : (("
MLG "cheaters don't deserve medals!" *strips titles*
teams - "uhhhhhsshhgghhg what just happened" : [[ *feels terrible*
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On August 27 2012 12:01 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:57 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 11:56 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing. It doesn't look good for either team. But like I said, I'd rather wait for more information. On August 27 2012 11:54 Femari wrote:This is just... Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion. This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with? Why are you even here? Sunday nights are slow, and not bashing all LoL fans obviously. Wording could've been better. Kick us while we're down will you?
I'm gonna be one of you soon anyway, well when I finally have wired internet on my desktop.
And I'm not kicking you, I'm sorta laughing at the delusional people who think prize splitting is absolutely okay and that MLG and Riot are in the wrong.
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On August 27 2012 12:03 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:01 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 11:57 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 11:56 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing. It doesn't look good for either team. But like I said, I'd rather wait for more information. On August 27 2012 11:54 Femari wrote:This is just... Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion. This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with? Why are you even here? Sunday nights are slow, and not bashing all LoL fans obviously. Wording could've been better. Kick us while we're down will you? I'm gonna be one of you soon anyway, well when I finally have wired internet on my desktop. And I'm not kicking you, I'm sorta laughing at the delusional people who think prize splitting is absolutely okay and that MLG and Riot are in the wrong.
There's a difference between thinking prize splitting is okay and thinking that MLG and Riot are wrong. MLG and Riot are making the right decision given the precedent MLG has set on prize splitting(see TSM vs Blaze game crash at MLG Arena and earlier Halo precedent). Prize splitting, however, is not undoubtedly evil.
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On August 27 2012 12:03 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:01 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 11:57 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 11:56 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing. It doesn't look good for either team. But like I said, I'd rather wait for more information. On August 27 2012 11:54 Femari wrote:This is just... Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion. This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with? Why are you even here? Sunday nights are slow, and not bashing all LoL fans obviously. Wording could've been better. Kick us while we're down will you? I'm gonna be one of you soon anyway, well when I finally have wired internet on my desktop. And I'm not kicking you, I'm sorta laughing at the delusional people who think prize splitting is absolutely okay and that MLG and Riot are in the wrong.
Quoting some idiot and then acting like that's a trait of being a LoL fan is extremely insulting. It would take me less than 10 seconds to head to an Sc2 thread and do the same exact thing.
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On August 27 2012 12:06 HPoirot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:03 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 12:01 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 11:57 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 11:56 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing. It doesn't look good for either team. But like I said, I'd rather wait for more information. On August 27 2012 11:54 Femari wrote:This is just... Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion. This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with? Why are you even here? Sunday nights are slow, and not bashing all LoL fans obviously. Wording could've been better. Kick us while we're down will you? I'm gonna be one of you soon anyway, well when I finally have wired internet on my desktop. And I'm not kicking you, I'm sorta laughing at the delusional people who think prize splitting is absolutely okay and that MLG and Riot are in the wrong. There's a difference between thinking prize splitting is okay and thinking that MLG and Riot are wrong. MLG and Riot are making the right decision given the precedent MLG has set on prize splitting(see TSM vs Blaze game crash at MLG Arena and earlier Halo precedent). Prize splitting, however, is not an unassailable evil.
Oh it's not an evil, MtG has gotten along fine with it. But it is breaking the rules and MLG has their stance on it. But the problem with this is it arguably effected the competition. They're free to split it after the tournament but when it possibly effected the amount of effort in the games it becomes a huge problem. All of a sudden it puts an asterisk on that champion because we don't know if they actually were doing their best sans not revealing strategies.
It's only a move to protect MLG in the long run.
On August 27 2012 12:07 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:03 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 12:01 HazMat wrote:On August 27 2012 11:57 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 11:56 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:52 Celestial wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened. If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Hubert did have his stream up for awhile and was on a call with someone and muted his stream before he made an announcement besides saying "We did not rig the matches". However, after the call ended he immediately had to turn off his stream with no further statements, so it'll probably be awhile before you'll hear from him while he does his thing. It doesn't look good for either team. But like I said, I'd rather wait for more information. On August 27 2012 11:54 Femari wrote:This is just... Actually, I don't see "collusion" as one of the violations of their rules, from my reading. Secondly, collusion is a secret agreement, and MLG went on twitter saying they discussed it openly in a public, crowded event, and that the, I quote here, "whole venue knew". So even if collusion WAS breaking a rule, that would almost certainly not meet the definition of collusion. This is the type of arguments LoL fans come up with? Why are you even here? Sunday nights are slow, and not bashing all LoL fans obviously. Wording could've been better. Kick us while we're down will you? I'm gonna be one of you soon anyway, well when I finally have wired internet on my desktop. And I'm not kicking you, I'm sorta laughing at the delusional people who think prize splitting is absolutely okay and that MLG and Riot are in the wrong. Quoting some idiot and then acting like that's a trait of being a LoL fan is extremely insulting. It would take me less than 10 seconds to head to an Sc2 thread and do the same exact thing.
Sorry for the wording. Again, I didn't mean it as all LoL fans.
You're dealing with an exhausted person, we sometimes skip words when we type.
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On August 27 2012 12:02 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 11:50 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I 'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened.If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Doubt that will happen. Dig goes into quiet mode (remember the whole WCG issue?) Crs made a terrible mistake by releasing that apology video. It is better for everyone involved to chill out and have their management write up and release a statement. It seems to me more like they don't even know exactly what is going on. From what I've read - it seems like they agreed on the ARAM and are like "hey cool the fans will love it then we can battle it out bo5! and then we can split the prize in the spirit of fairness and everyone happy" Then MLG heard about it - and while they might not care about the ARAM they see the prize-splitting as collusion. They go to the teams who are (at least Curse - haven't heard much from Dignitas) in the process of like "oh shit everyone's super mad about the ARAM - sorry guys! we were trying to make it MORE exciting! promise! really sorry!" MLG "hey, angry!" teams "omg yeah sorry about ARAM really sorry - thought it would be fun and cool really really sorry!" MLG is like - "hey! prize-splitting! you! thats collusion!" teams - "collusion? what really omg" (aside) "(hey what does that mean? whats collusion? REAL- *ahem* really? That but whaa--?)" "No of course not! We really meant the games we swear : ((" MLG "cheaters don't deserve medals!" *strips titles* teams - "uhhhhhsshhgghhg what just happened" : [[ *feels terrible*
This is what I thought too, but it seems that they decided beforehand who was going to win the match.
https://twitter.com/MrMLGAdam/status/239893678280306688
edit: additionally, MLG compares it directly to the super smash brawl incident a couple years back.
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On August 27 2012 12:10 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 12:02 Arghmyliver wrote:On August 27 2012 11:50 nojitosunrise wrote:On August 27 2012 11:48 overt wrote:On August 27 2012 11:41 Senx wrote:On August 27 2012 11:37 overt wrote:
I think you could make a compelling argument that first place at this tournament between Dig/Crs didn't matter. It'd change the seedings if Dig won but it's not like Legion or TD are going to be favored against Dig or CLG.
Making it super obvious that you were prize splitting was just stupid on their part but I don't have any moral objections to what they did. I also understand MLG's logic since it'd look bad if they just did nothing.
edit:
Although if they actually did plan on having Curse win for some reason it's a different story. But if all they did was conspire to split the prize money I don't see much of a problem. Especially since I don't think either team would do it at a tournament that actually mattered. RedBeard from Riot: Just to be crystal clear, MLG’s decision here has nothing to do with ARAM. Both Curse and Dignitas admitted to and apologized for colluding prior to the finals to throw the match.
Drakylon - they decided who would win prior to the match - it's not about their strategy during the game or what they are doing with the money afterwards, it's about respect for the game, the sport, the other teams, and the fans. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=28677156#28677156 I read that. I also read that Curse's CEO is claiming this is false. I 'd rather wait for the players to come out and say what happened.If they actually did intend for Curse to win the match then I think it'd be perfectly fair for Riot to do to them exactly what KeSPA did to match-fixers. But I'd rather wait until all the facts are out personally. Doubt that will happen. Dig goes into quiet mode (remember the whole WCG issue?) Crs made a terrible mistake by releasing that apology video. It is better for everyone involved to chill out and have their management write up and release a statement. It seems to me more like they don't even know exactly what is going on. From what I've read - it seems like they agreed on the ARAM and are like "hey cool the fans will love it then we can battle it out bo5! and then we can split the prize in the spirit of fairness and everyone happy" Then MLG heard about it - and while they might not care about the ARAM they see the prize-splitting as collusion. They go to the teams who are (at least Curse - haven't heard much from Dignitas) in the process of like "oh shit everyone's super mad about the ARAM - sorry guys! we were trying to make it MORE exciting! promise! really sorry!" MLG "hey, angry!" teams "omg yeah sorry about ARAM really sorry - thought it would be fun and cool really really sorry!" MLG is like - "hey! prize-splitting! you! thats collusion!" teams - "collusion? what really omg" (aside) "(hey what does that mean? whats collusion? REAL- *ahem* really? That but whaa--?)" "No of course not! We really meant the games we swear : ((" MLG "cheaters don't deserve medals!" *strips titles* teams - "uhhhhhsshhgghhg what just happened" : [[ *feels terrible* This is what I thought too, but it seems that they decided beforehand who was going to win the match. https://twitter.com/MrMLGAdam/status/239893678280306688edit: additionally, MLG compares it directly to the super smash brawl incident a couple years back.
"Planned it all out" as in decided the outcome of every game or as in planned the prize splitting. We still have no idea.
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EPT
