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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
With Volley scaling with AD (not Bonus AD) and only a 4 sec CD at rank 5 > How viable is 40% CDR Ashe? Brutalizer, Stinger, SotEL, CDR boots and/or runes/masteries. Also how viable is Spirit of the Elder Lizard on Ashe? Volley should proc it on every hit correct? Does the damage from Statikk Shiv proc the SotEL DoT?> | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
On June 04 2013 02:33 Ghost-z wrote: Non-standard items I'd like to discuss about Ashe: With Volley scaling with AD (not Bonus AD) and only a 4 sec CD at rank 5 > How viable is 40% CDR Ashe? Brutalizer, Stinger, SotEL, CDR boots and/or runes/masteries. Also how viable is Spirit of the Elder Lizard on Ashe? Volley should proc it on every hit correct? Does the damage from Statikk Shiv proc the SotEL DoT?> You'd need some kind of mana regen item tho. You already run oom by spamming volley with 0% cdr | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
But if the only CDR item you get is SotEL you'll be able to spam volley much longer. Edit: This probably is another case of it just being better suited for an ARAM game. | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On June 04 2013 02:47 Ghost-z wrote: Well if you get +3 regen from masteries and +7 from SS you should have slightly more than double ashe's natural mana regen for most of the game. However I do see your point that this is the major defect in CDR ashe and will probably not be viable on SR. But if the only CDR item you get is SotEL you'll be able to spam volley much longer. Edit: This probably is another case of it just being better suited for an ARAM game. Somewhat related I suppose, but I've tried running the blue ezreal build on ashe following similar logic and haven't found much success with it personally. Ezreal's Q and E is really just what makes the whole build tie so nicely, which unfortunately isn't something that a lot of champs can do (asides from Gangplank with his Q, and perhaps MF?). Ashe unfortunately just seems to be one of THE most orthodox AD carries and unfortunately benefits most from playing the ADC arms race like everyone else. The lizzard elder item is good and gives her a lot of useful stats, but she just can't "abuse" them (probably the wrong word) the way Ezreal can due to the simplicity of her kit. Lizzard elder + Volley spam alone just feels really wonky without having some sort of positioning tool like Ezreal's E and often just leads to a lot of unnecessary pushing | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
The only item that looks attractive to Ashe is the SotEL because it does proc with Volley, is very cost-efficient, and provides Ashe with extra sustain. I need to test if the damage from Statikk Shiv procs the Dot from SotEL. If it does then this item becomes more viable. If not it's back to the old IE>PD>LW standard build. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Maybe on support ashe as an affordable way to do reasonable damage... | ||
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
Context: I'm thinking that if you want to take advantage of the unlimited mana from muramana, you need a team that can force stand offs and disengage at will. Perhaps something like lux mid, trundle jungle, sona/soraka support and maybe jayce top. That would also offer some potential to secure quick kills if you catch somebody with an arrow. And ofcourse kite and poke. Items: I think maxing cdr and getting lots of mana fast is necessary when sacrificing damage. I mean, either you get all 40% cdr or you get nothing. There is no point getting anything between considering how cdr scales. The problem is that with SotEL, brut and cdr boots, that is a lot of gold invested into AD when you also want manamune. Perhaps skip the brut and get 15 cdr from runes/masteries, so you can cap cdr with boots and SotEL. Then you can go for an early core of SotEL, manamune and cdr boots for max utility in the mid game, and start transitioning into DPS with a statikk shiv into PD/IE/LW/whatever. | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
The reason is, Volley still has too long cooldown even with maxed CDR, you can't attack-volley-attack infinitely, so the time it takes to cast volley is CRUCIAL for Ashe, seeing as she doesn't have a blink mechanic and needs to kite. Edit: With an extremely controlling/disruptive frontline/mid, maybe. If she does get to stand around and spam volley, she deals a lot of damage. But so does every other ADC... | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
I'm not even sure you can get enough AD with maxed CDR to make Volley all that damaging anyway. And the cooldown is in this weird place where you don't notice 40% CDR as much as on other champions that require it (Lux ult, for example), but it's still too long for Volley to be your primary source of damage. I dunno, I just don't really like it. Could be fun on the Abyss though! | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Also this seems to be a build achievable for support Ashe I will give it a try and post back. | ||
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
The build I am settled on: 9/0/21 with max cdr and 5 cdr from runes. Otherwise normal ad runes. Items: SotEL, boots, lucidity boots, Statikk Shiv, IE, PD. Does it work?: It seems strong. I play defensively with mass volley spam in lane, and I am really hard to pin down with the 2,4 cd volley. 36 cd hawkshot is good. More arrows is... great! It's like it is up all the time. At this point, I think the build definitely has it's place in a comp that can make use of all the extra utility. Observations: Spirit of the Elder Lizard is amazing. As on everyone else SotEL gives such a huge boost to laning and the burn synergizes well with volley harass. Manamune sucks. You don't really need the mana enough to justify the damage loss in auto attacks that comes from investing so hard in ad/mana. And even if you finish muramana it is crap without attack speed. Going 21 in utility for the 6% cdr seems like quite a loss in dps, but I'm not sure on this one. More xp, mana and movespeed are valuable as well, but I can't figure out if it justifies scrapping offensive tree. More testing pending. Edit: Math on the loss of dps compared to standard build at level 18 with IE + PD. Assuming a 100 armor target, the loss of dps from offensive masteries ~ 20% dps Loss of 20% attack speed from berserkers = 8,5% dps Combined total loss of dps ~ 27%. My thoughts on the math results: The offensive mastery tree is stronger than I thought, and the loss of dps from not having it may be too large to ignore. The next step could be trying out CDR quints to enable offensive masteries without compromising the cdr rush. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
Just for the record, volley spam is strong for control and poke but completely insignificant in terms of dps. | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
On June 06 2013 05:47 Blyf wrote: Testing results for blue ashe: The build I am settled on: 9/0/21 with max cdr and 5 cdr from runes. Otherwise normal ad runes. Items: SotEL, boots, lucidity boots, Statikk Shiv, IE, PD. Does it work?: It seems strong. I play defensively with mass volley spam in lane, and I am really hard to pin down with the 2,4 cd volley. 36 cd hawkshot is good. More arrows is... great! It's like it is up all the time. At this point, I think the build definitely has it's place in a comp that can make use of all the extra utility. Observations: Spirit of the Elder Lizard is amazing. As on everyone else SotEL gives such a huge boost to laning and the burn synergizes well with volley harass. Manamune sucks. You don't really need the mana enough to justify the damage loss in auto attacks that comes from investing so hard in ad/mana. And even if you finish muramana it is crap without attack speed. Going 21 in utility for the 6% cdr seems like quite a loss in dps, but I'm not sure on this one. More xp, mana and movespeed are valuable as well, but I can't figure out if it justifies scrapping offensive tree. More testing pending. Edit: Math on the loss of dps compared to standard build at level 18 with IE + PD. Assuming a 100 armor target, the loss of dps from offensive masteries ~ 20% dps Loss of 20% attack speed from berserkers = 8,5% dps Combined total loss of dps ~ 27%. My thoughts on the math results: The offensive mastery tree is stronger than I thought, and the loss of dps from not having it may be too large to ignore. The next step could be trying out CDR quints to enable offensive masteries without compromising the cdr rush. I tried this out just for the lulz (mana regen blues and 21/4/5 masteries) with elder lizard> Brutalizer(might be unnecessary) > ionian boots > standard crit and damage wasnt too bad, I'd just stay out of their auto range and harass with volley and even in allins from varus + blitzcrank I won easily with thresh. I didnt get past static shiv thought, so cant say anything about lategame. I'll keep testing this just cause it's fun and report in here again | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
I had huge mana problems on just bruta, and the "early game damage" slot overlaps heavily with SotEL, so I think either dropping Bruta or getting it second is best. The tear was helpful early, but I didn't need the mana by level 18 (running utility spec and mp5 yellows). Between SotEL, Last Whisper, Brutalizer, and Manamune-boosted autos I felt like I was doing a significant amount of damage without autoattacking very much, but I think that's largely just cos the enemy team was chump tier. | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
In my opinion a tear isnt really necessary and just hampers your fighting ability in lane. I rarely run oom with mana regen runes and masteries. And lategame turning brutalizer into BC (after infinity edge) feels pretty good: you can stack it up extremely fast with 2 sec. cooldown volley, it's almost like mf ult level of fast | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
When is it a good idea to get Avarice Blade on Ashe? If you are ahead/even/behind? Should you rush it, build it after IE, or just fuck it because PD is better? | ||
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
On June 07 2013 23:49 clickrush wrote: i dont get why people so often want to either max cdr or get none at all. cdr is good on ashe not only for voley but also for arrow. SotEL, bruta/BC are all good items on her. You want to cap CDR because it gets better the more you have of it. Consider this extreme example for the purpose of illustrating the point: Imagine there was no cap on cdr. If you have a spell with a cool down of 100 secs and go from 0 to 1 % CDR, your cd goes from 100 to 99 secs. Now consider the same example, except you are already at 98% CDR and get one more point of CDR taking it to 99%. The cd of your spell is now reduced from 2 to 1 seconds. So the result of going from 0 to 1% is 1/100 = 1% more spell casts. In the mean time the result of going from 98% to 99% is 1/2 = 50% more spells casts. Going from 39% to 40% will give you 1/61 = 1,64% more spell casts. On June 08 2013 03:35 Ghost-z wrote: I asked this question earlier but never got an answer. When is it a good idea to get Avarice Blade on Ashe? If you are ahead/even/behind? Should you rush it, build it after IE, or just fuck it because PD is better? It is probably never a good idea to get avarice except when you have zeal and can't afford the full shiv. Otherwise you would have to know that you will be free farming for a while without any risk of action with opposing champs... But when does that happen really? | ||
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