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On June 08 2013 06:21 Blyf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 03:35 Ghost-z wrote:
I asked this question earlier but never got an answer.
When is it a good idea to get Avarice Blade on Ashe? If you are ahead/even/behind? Should you rush it, build it after IE, or just fuck it because PD is better? It is probably never a good idea to get avarice except when you have zeal and can't afford the full shiv. Otherwise you would have to know that you will be free farming for a while without any risk of action with opposing champs... But when does that happen really?
My general rule of thumb has been to grab Avarice Blade as soon as the tower in my lane goes down. In lane you are constantly trading/poking and on the lookout for ganks but after the tower goes down its more or less push your lane and then hang around mid. Your team fighting doesn't really spike until you finish your 2nd item anyway so this is how I get it slightly sooner without losing power in lane.
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So anyone else try Muramana Ashe after watching Genja? It feels really strong to me. Though I've been going something like bf (or 2 dorans)/tear/IE/manamune/phantom dancer. Doesn't really leave room for a defensive item, but the constant slows with the crit is really oppressive. A lot of fights where the enemy would get away from a normal Ashe, you just reapply the q slow until they die.
Most importantly, it is really fun. Knocking blue build Ezreal's head off with an enchanted arrow while watching him try to pitifully escape Ashe's permaslow is pretty satisfying.
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Where did Genja use it?
I tried Manamune, but it feels too weak in hard engages.
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I've tried it. I think the key is to note carefully what he did. He bought a tear early, but then built normal AD heavy ashe- bloodthirster, last whisper etc- and didn't complete the manamune.
He just toggled ashe's frost shot- which now triggers the tear- on and off, meaning he could charge it almost as quickly as a singed. He only built it into a manamune when it would immediately turn into a muramana.
It's pretty strong top, where with that much mana you can really bully a lot of the toplaners so long as you don't try it vs jayce. Because of the style of build you can synergise nicely with a more conventional ADC bot and provide support damage and initiation plus very strong push pressure.
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On June 25 2013 21:57 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
I've tried it. I think the key is to note carefully what he did. He bought a tear early, but then built normal AD heavy ashe- bloodthirster, last whisper etc- and didn't complete the manamune.
He just toggled ashe's frost shot- which now triggers the tear- on and off, meaning he could charge it almost as quickly as a singed. He only built it into a manamune when it would immediately turn into a muramana.
It's pretty strong top, where with that much mana you can really bully a lot of the toplaners so long as you don't try it vs jayce. Because of the style of build you can synergise nicely with a more conventional ADC bot and provide support damage and initiation plus very strong push pressure.
to expand on this, the tear basically meant he could leave frost shot on indefinitly (with 1 point in it) to stack it, while volley spamming.
He never had to back for mana, but as a tradeoff he was basically one dorans blade weaker for trades at that point, it adds a short window of strength to Ashe (basically levels 5-9 where most of the big items still aren't done) because he can spam his volley hard, but the true payoff point only happens later when he buys the muramana and it instantly transforms.
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Belgium9952 Posts
On June 25 2013 22:23 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 21:57 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
I've tried it. I think the key is to note carefully what he did. He bought a tear early, but then built normal AD heavy ashe- bloodthirster, last whisper etc- and didn't complete the manamune.
He just toggled ashe's frost shot- which now triggers the tear- on and off, meaning he could charge it almost as quickly as a singed. He only built it into a manamune when it would immediately turn into a muramana.
It's pretty strong top, where with that much mana you can really bully a lot of the toplaners so long as you don't try it vs jayce. Because of the style of build you can synergise nicely with a more conventional ADC bot and provide support damage and initiation plus very strong push pressure. to expand on this, the tear basically meant he could leave frost shot on indefinitly (with 1 point in it) to stack it, while volley spamming. He never had to back for mana, but as a tradeoff he was basically one dorans blade weaker for trades at that point, it adds a short window of strength to Ashe (basically levels 5-9 where most of the big items still aren't done) because he can spam his volley hard, but the true payoff point only happens later when he buys the muramana and it instantly transforms.
I think he meant the tear procs on toggling q, so you dont even have to fire autos with it for it to stack.
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It doesn't proc on toggling Q, but it does proc on all mana expenditures. You do have to fire autos for it to stack.
Honestly, I think Muramana is a strong item, but you need at least somethign besides auto attacks
There was a time (Week 3, NIP v Gambit) that Genja's Ashe was standing On the Fountain while Bjergsen's Ryze was standing still 1v1ing him while his teammates finished off the nexus turrets, and it took FOREVER for Genja to pop Bjergsen's GA. A six item carry should not be doing damage that unbelivably shitty DPS.
Muramana just doesn't take advantage of the multiplicative stats that AD carries need to scale late. It works on Ezreal because AD/CDR/MysticshotReset/Arpen is Ezreal's set of "multiplicative stats" and even then, blue ezreal is a lower DPS build. Also his Q procs muramana bonus damage, whereas Volley does not. (If volley did, it would probably be pretty good to go muramana/CDR)
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I've been doing Muramana, 25% CDR Ashe (+black cleaver, CDR boot) in ARAM since the beginning of S3. Haven't tried it on SR yet because you're more than likely to draw attention from the close minded sheeps in solo queue.
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I went against an ashe similar to this in ARAM the other day. Final build was something like SotEL, BC, CDR boots, Muramana. Since volley procs the true damage DoT I can't see any reason not to get that item on CDR ashe.
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I don't like Muramana because if you are going that build you are basically saying you are a low-damage-utility-Miss Fortune, and in that case you don't auto that much and dont even use the Proc. If you are that obsessed with Volley spam, just get a chalice and sit on it till you have Boots/BT/IE/LW. At least it gives you some MR.
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I'm going to try the CDR build the next time I roll Ashe in ARAM. I'm planning to rush SotEL and with that item proceed to spam volley on cooldown. My guess is at this point I would want some form of mana regen to sustain the volley spam. What's the best way to get this for Ashe on HA?
Tear is cheaper, stacks at medium pace, and builds into Muramana late game. Just sitting on a tear for 30 minutes seems like a better option because it is cheaper and will be useful in case the game goes very late.
Chalice provides MR against enemy poke. Better regen but much smaller mana pool. It's also a dead end item for ashe if the game goes late.
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Ashe is onehandedely the strongest passive marxwoman.All that gold and mana she can stack during laning phase.Simply dabes.That is if you can afford tear avarice and dorains on your first trip home.
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Here's a tip for new Ashe player: Hold on to your crit passive!
You win every early trade with them. If your opponent goes for a cs, it's worth giving up your own to chunk off half his health. If your opponent wants to wait out your crit, just zone him out of xp. Your E grants extra gold so you can make up those lost gold much faster. Don't be afraid to trade as Ashe. She is one of the strongest with her crit up.
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I'm now very interested in ashe support. one of my friends does dblade stacking and goes really hard on ad runes to make the most of the crit passives and volly. going for a marksman page and just picking up 4 dblades while buying wards really gives you a ton of threat in lane and those crits hit really hard. then you can just build basic support items after that.
I really like the control you get with crit auto attack volly auto attack walk back poke in lane with them slowed and damaged. then in larger fights you have a metric shitton of peel with a point blank long stun and constant slows on whoevers diving.
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I liked Ashe support a lot better in s2 when Zeke's was a good item 
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Support Ashe might work, but only if your positioning is impeccable. That will make or break your kiting/peeling ability
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I've done it a few times and I'm not sure there is a reason to go support ashe when lulu/zyra exist. They work better with low cash and glitterlance/vines are better overall.
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it's reduced to "for fun" at this point imo, but in season 2 Soul Shroud and Zeke's actually made it quite powerful, not like in the tier of actual supports but head and shoulders over garbage like Zilian support
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Support Ashe is a troll pick. Yes, she's not a complete deadweight, but there are many more worthy picks than her. Any ranged support can do the dblade stacking. I do it myself with Lulu and Zyra quite often when I picked up some early kills. Ashe's crit passive works just as well when she is ADC now that there is no chance of it being wasted on a minion before reaching 100%. You can just tell your support to pick up the cs while you zone with it.
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EPT
