EPT[Champion] Ashe - Page 4
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1292 Posts
Bot lane is shifting towards aggression based over the past 6 months or so with lane phases ending faster (teams are more willing to push down bot tower) rather than passive poke-n-farm. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On April 12 2013 06:09 Ente wrote: I think I have a decent understanding about botlane... and no ashe cant fight lvl 1 that well.. Is Ashe relatively weaker or stronger at level 1 compared to other ADC's? If the other ADC has burned their CD is Ashe relatively better off or worse off as compared to other ADC's? I think that the answer to both is that Ashe is relatively stronger and relatively better off(with maybe the exception of cait). If you're playing Varus and I am playing Graves or Ezreal, i still have to work more in order to get onto you well. In fact this is the case for most ADC's Ashe has no such weakness. I cannot imagine Ashe losing a level 1 engage against any ADC who has no abilities. wait what you tell me that q is better for pushing while damaging? Sorry but you sir have no idea about how Varus works/never played against a good Varus. There is NO discussion about skilling E first and its by far his best ability for lvl 1/lvl 1 fighting No, q is better if you want to damage the enemy champion while also hitting the creeps. It also has a higher raw damage and so compares more favorably to Ashe's volley. Yes e is the better first skill. But neither matter if you blow your ability on the wave. And well, all you have to do, to not have this issue is not stand in your creeps at level 1, so varus can't e the wave and you at the same time. | ||
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
Anyway, thanks for sharing insight Ente. | ||
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On April 12 2013 18:43 Ente wrote: Well I give up with this discussion! Lol u challenger scrub, i teach u stuff! | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
A direct answer is that Ashe's level 1 is strong only until she uses her crit. Volley's cooldown and Ashe's base stats are so bad that other ADC will have their ability off cooldown before it matters. Besides, nobody is going to let a level 1 Ashe with volley off CD "just engage on them." Thing is, Ashe can't just save the crit because the other guy pushing the wave will grant a big Half the reason the level 2 advantage is so scary is that the level 2 team will also have a creep advantage, but if they manage the wave correctly, the wave isn't pushed that far to tower. You have the option of either fighting them with creep disadvantage, or letting them shove safely to your tower and being forced to play passively. You're also completely ignoring the support's impact on the lane, and support level 1 skills are pretty terrifying. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
even if you dont do that you should find a way to auto and voley at lvl 1. i often leave cs just for doing that. its kind of a laneing investment if you do 1-2 good pokes early on. then lvl 2-5 shoulnd be a huge problem. you just continue to poke and push while csing. as with every poke champ you dont force it too hard but rather punish their positioning and risky cs etc. alot of the problems with ashe after that depend on two things: 1. mana and 2. cooldowns. her strength comes from voley spam and the threat of an arrow allin or gank assist. there is some level of pressure you have to maintain. if you cannot do that then you have to back off. go to base, get assist from jungle or assisting somewhere with an arrow gank are all viable possibilities. so i like the shiv+IE+pd build because it amplyfies ashes strengths. Shiv IE PD is there to do the maximum damage on initiation with arrow, voley and auto. so from a teamfighting perspective this makes sense. The build up has some weaknesses though. Alot of botlaners get lifesteal early on which isnt ashes cup of tea. As ashe you rather want regen and manareg. Oh wait theres that lizard thing which has manareg, lifereg, damage and also cdr on top. This item basicly is made for ashes laneing phase lol. You know the awkward feeling when you are oom as ashe? after that i still go with the shiv etc buildup most of the time. yes it "delays your core" etc. but in the other hand it's just good. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On June 03 2013 00:00 clickrush wrote: so i like the shiv+IE+pd build because it amplyfies ashes strengths. Shiv IE PD is there to do the maximum damage on initiation with arrow, voley and auto. so from a teamfighting perspective this makes sense. ECA doesn't scale with stats you want, Shiv scales off of crit which your passive should give you, Volley and the first auto scale off of AD and ArPen. I don't get how a Shiv+IE+PD build helps your burst/teamfighting (it sure helps your kiting with tons of MS and AS, and higher crit can replace AD in some form I guess) but the way you word it suggests that you're talking about the initial bust when people just ate your ECA and can't answer to your aggression. In which case AD, IE passive and ArPen do more for you than crit chance and AS. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
Ente: "Ashe not really that strong early" Random scrub: "Ashe's level 1 is so good wtf you guys don't know how to play" Other TL members: "Ente is #1 ranked adc in EU" Ente best credentials hider EU | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
Also, Ente, I'm of the opinion that Ashe is best picked when Arrow isn't your team's primary initiate - If someone else initiates the fight, and you still have Arrow up when you begin picking at/kiting their beefy guys, I find that people like Zed/Kha (that is people whose job is to dive on your ass and kill you) have a much harder time doing so against Ashe because they get an Arrow in the face. Your thoughts? | ||
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Zariel
Australia1292 Posts
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
"Oh Ashe's passive lets you crit once in a while, thats why IE/SS are great 1st/2nd items to build on her" Am I the only who thinks this is kinda dumb? IE and SS for sure are good items on most AD carries, but the crit passive that everyone seems so reliant on hardly seems to come up once you start laning, and it seems to make more sense building an early bloodthirster as your first item since it gives you more consistent damage on AA/Volley and lifesteal on top of that. Not to say that you wouldn't build IE/SS on ashe eventually, but crit emphasis seems overrated when talking about Ashe's early game. IE is a good item, but the components are too big to consider as a first/second buy unless you're winning already. | ||
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Blyf
Denmark408 Posts
On June 03 2013 15:30 Jojo131 wrote: I feel that too much emphasis/importance is placed on Ashe's passive when people build her and in most guides I've seen. "Oh Ashe's passive lets you crit once in a while, thats why IE/SV are great 1st/2nd items to build on her" Am I the only who thinks this is kinda dumb? IE and SV for sure are good items on most AD carries, but the crit passive that everyone seems so reliant on hardly seems to come up once you start laning, and it seems to make more sense building an early bloodthirster as your first item since it gives you more consistent damage on AA/Volley and lifesteal on top of that. Not to say that you wouldn't build IE/SV on ashe eventually, but crit emphasis seems overrated when talking about Ashe's early game. IE is a good item, but the components are too big to consider as a first/second buy unless you're winning already. SV = Spirit Visage? Anyways, I agree that the IE start can feel underwhelming and I have also been toying with the thought of going for an early core of BT/Shiv with non-sustain supports. It would probably be something along the lines of dorans, dorans, shiv, BT. Or maybe BF sword, shiv, BT. Statikk Shiv just feels amazing on her, not so much in lane, but rather in the mid/late game. It helps with fast waveclear, so your team mates don't steal farm in stand offs in solo queue, but more importantly it gives up front burst which is very useful both when catching people out and for getting the killing blow on enemy champions when roaming/dancing around objectives. | ||
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On June 03 2013 16:59 Blyf wrote: SV = Spirit Visage? Anyways, I agree that the IE start can feel underwhelming and I have also been toying with the thought of going for an early core of BT/Shiv with non-sustain supports. It would probably be something along the lines of dorans, dorans, shiv, BT. Or maybe BF sword, shiv, BT. Statikk Shiv just feels amazing on her, not so much in lane, but rather in the mid/late game. It helps with fast waveclear, so your team mates don't steal farm in stand offs in solo queue, but more importantly it gives up front burst which is very useful both when catching people out and for getting the killing blow on enemy champions when roaming/dancing around objectives. Derp. I did actually mean Statikk Shiv, dont know why I insisted that the acronym would be SV for some reason. Changed it. I think you're right about feeling the shiv working more towards the mid/late game for wavelcear + burst, but mostly because I also prefer having raw AD as a priority before getting AS/crit, so building Shiv seems more reserved for mid game. | ||
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GhostOwl
766 Posts
Anyway, I wouldnt play or want Ashe on my team unless we seriously lacked CC / initiation. They need to re-work her passive to be useful and give her some kind of mobility OR self-steroid skill. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On June 03 2013 22:36 Alaric wrote: They're working on her passive. It's basically the same as right now, except the buff is only consumed for a crit when it's at 100 stacks, auto-ing only resets the 3s delay until it starts stacking again. What it means is that everytime you don't auto for 3+ seconds during laning or a fight, you're getting stacks until you get a sure crit, instead of gaining crit% on your next attack Oh, that's a pretty popular mechanic in a lot of games (increases until a crit, as opposed to consumed even if no crit). I feel like Ashe is a little weak right now, I main MF/Graves/Varus and I haven't laned against an Ashe in ages... | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Is it ever a good idea to get Avarice Blade early (first back) in lane if you plan to build SS? | ||
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