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On February 19 2015 02:42 General_Winter wrote:
As a support, what do you do if your ADC is terrible? Like they pick teemo and charge forward into danger going 0-5 in the first 8 to 10 minutes. I've had other not quite as bad ADCs, but it does seem to be pretty common to get really incompetent ADCs (maybe 1 out of 4-6 games).
In other roles, if someone on your team is bad, you can try to really play extra tight, build an advantage in your area, and carry late. But it seems like a support with a worthless ADC is nearly worthless no matter how well you do or by how much you outplay the other support.
Things I have tried:
- give up on bot lane and just go support mid or top and they can usually get some kills or knock down a tower with the 2v1 edge. Problem is my ADC can lose hard enough to make their ADC unstoppable late
- give up on the support role and just start taking CS and going for kills. With someone like Morgana this means that our team can get at least 1 decent fighter late game out of the bottom lane instead of zero. Problem is that this is only an option with some supports, Janna and Nami can't really become late game AP killing machines like Morgana does..
Option 1 is good, option 2 sucks. By stealing cs from the ADC you'll put them in a really bad frame of mind. They'll completely distrust you and you're literally causing conflicts. That's the one time I'll afk from a game is if my support tries contesting my farm. I'm playing 3v1 to farm? Fuck that shit.
Roaming is a good choice. As support, sometimes I'll just say, "They have a (insert advantage), lets just farm and play like pussies." I say this a lot when I'm laning with an Ezreal. Other than that? Ward properly, back ping, zone for them to farm, or heal them when they get poked.
I find it's easier to support a bad adc than be an adc to a bad support. At least as support you can make sure they have a decent laning phase and keep things relatively even. With a bad support, you're pretty fucked if the enemy is 2v1ing you while Taric afks watching top lane standing behind you.
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Check the minimap and ping for other lanes too. See a jungler nearby top? Danger ping. See their top laner swinging down to mid? Danger ping.
This is something you should be doing anyway, but as a support, you often have the luxury to do it more simply because you don't have to focus on CSing.
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How viable is it to build movespeed on Sona with the "recent" changes to her E's effectiveness? The games I've tried it in have went very well, though I can't really say for certain if that was being the stat is marginally better on her now or if my ADC was just doing very well those games. It's come up in discussion with the group that I play with that it might not be the best idea.
Example build: Swifties, Sightstone, Talisman, Zz'rot, Spirit Visage/Frozen Heart, Twin Shadows/Lichbane/Triforce, Red Trinket. The build comes to roughly 13200gp.
Generally I would start my coin/pots into a first back boots/sightstone. After that I would rush Zz'rot Portal and build the rest in whatever order I need for that particular match. The point of building like this has been to be more of a very mobile support that helps with Valor and Celerity rather than focusing on Perseverance and Flash Crescendos.
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On February 21 2015 06:07 AutumnStorm wrote:
How viable is it to build movespeed on Sona with the "recent" changes to her E's effectiveness? The games I've tried it in have went very well, though I can't really say for certain if that was being the stat is marginally better on her now or if my ADC was just doing very well those games. It's come up in discussion with the group that I play with that it might not be the best idea.
Example build: Swifties, Sightstone, Talisman, Zz'rot, Spirit Visage/Frozen Heart, Twin Shadows/Lichbane/Triforce, Red Trinket. The build comes to roughly 13200gp.
Generally I would start my coin/pots into a first back boots/sightstone. After that I would rush Zz'rot Portal and build the rest in whatever order I need for that particular match. The point of building like this has been to be more of a very mobile support that helps with Valor and Celerity rather than focusing on Perseverance and Flash Crescendos.
Being the master of move speed on a support is a good goal to have. A lot of supports get mobis because they can deep ward easier and engage easier. So I would suggest going with mobis over swifties, but that's up to you.
Sona was my first main and I had a super high winrate on her last season before they changed her. Yeah, she's "better" now, I just don't like the way she plays anymore. Overall, I think cd items and talisman are good on her, especially since she has no cc to escape outside of her ult. Spell thief is always better than Coin in lane. You only upgrade/sidegrade to coin after laning phase. Then you'd want to skip coin and go straight to medallion so you're not missing out on gold generation. There's too much cash money and stats to ignore spellthief in the laning phase. I'm not sold on building Zz'rot. You need a lot of raw HP to make Zz'rot somewhat efficient. The rest of the items make sense. I'd suggest considering Aegis items since aura MR is OP.
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Honestly the build is pretty bad.Talisman is good but start spellthief and go for the utility route with any of the crucible/locket/talisman/fh and you could sneak in some ap if you are feeling yolo like morelo/lichbane/mejai/rylai.
Mobos are much better than swifties.CDR boots can be good sometimes as well.Rushing a distortion on sona/annie after your base of spellthief/sighstone/mobos can work really well cuz it lets you have more flash initiates which are pretty good.
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Planning out your "full build" item selection is not the most important thing on a support. You shouldn't be getting that much gold unless the game goes 50 minutes or longer.
On Sona I prioritize sightstone, mobility boots, and your support item upgrade (either spellthief or talisman path,; I think spellthief is better on Sona but ymmv). Then as the game goes later, get Mikael's if you need the cleanse for your carries, or twin shadows or rylai's if you want to get more creative.
Basically: what nafta said.
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Anyone care to explain how lane swap works? I've seen it quite a lot in LCS but I don't get it.
Suppose bot (adc+sup) goes top: they will have a superiority against the top player, but isn't it the same in bot lane for the agonist team?
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Some champions are better at farming/assisting a gank 1v2 than others (better farming, or less reliance on exp/farm, etc.) Jax sucks 1v2 but Mundo can farm with cleavers for example (he's really easy to dive while Jax has Counterstrike though).
Some duos get shat on (Cait+Nami trashes Vayne+whoever) and will want to lane swap so they can farm and remove the horrendous match-up.
They can want to swap so they have more pressure on one side of the jungle, etc.
Sometimes the support uses the swap to go with the other guy and leave the AD carry as an off laner, some hold their own well versus typical off laners (like Ezreal) while others simply benefit a lot from the experience (Corki goes solo until level 6, then goes back in a duo, that's one of the best ways for him to shut down a Tristana for example).
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The most simple ideas for laneswaping are these two:
1) Some champions are doing okay in 1v2s and some are doing worse. In general ranged champions can sneak some cs even in 1v2 scenarios, and champions with an easy time to last hit under turret are also doing relative well. Others, especially many melee champs, cannot go anywhere near to the creeps in 1v2s, so they fall behind. Now if you have a champion that can 1v2 from range quite well and the opponent's have, say, Garen, laneswaping puts your toplaner less behind than theirs, so you win overall.
2) Sometimes you want to pick unfavorable lane matchups for a better late game/teamcomp (or you just get outpicked). Say you play a protect the carry comp and have a Vayne/Morgana botlane. Your opponents are Caitlyn/Janna and would just poke a bit early, then zone you away from creeps with their range advantage. The best way to get your Vayne to farm up here is to laneswap, thereby giving the adcs of both sides free farming opportunities. Caitlyn had freefarm against Vayne anyway, so she does not win anything from the new situation. Vayne, however, would have a terrible time against Caitlyn, but now she gets farmed up. Therefore you win out in the laneswap.
Edit: Alaric made pretty much the same points while I was writing this.
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So this new site Champion.GG is pretty useful for the people unknown to league. If we look at the stats for Junglers, most played is Lee Sin at a whopping 30% while he's at one of the lowest win rates. This is indicative of him just being hard to play/learn + very popular or is he just not that good anymore?
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On February 24 2015 05:53 Slardar wrote:
So this new site Champion.GG is pretty useful for the people unknown to league. If we look at the stats for Junglers, most played is Lee Sin at a whopping 30% while he's at one of the lowest win rates. This is indicative of him just being hard to play/learn + very popular or is he just not that good anymore?
A combination of the two. He's not the best jungler anymore and even when he was, he didn't have a high win rate in solo queue.
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in mid assuming your at similar cs in lane what's the best thing to do if you force your opponent to recall assuming their aren't any major objectives to take? should I push the wave into tower then immediately recall myself, try to damage tower, try to place deepwards, something else?
does it depend on what champion your on?
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On February 24 2015 05:53 Slardar wrote:
So this new site Champion.GG is pretty useful for the people unknown to league. If we look at the stats for Junglers, most played is Lee Sin at a whopping 30% while he's at one of the lowest win rates. This is indicative of him just being hard to play/learn + very popular or is he just not that good anymore?
We'll, he's extremely difficult to play, especially later in the game, and he still gets plenty of tournament and high ELO play, so I'd lean towards the former.
All we really need to see is his winrate in each skill level (bronze-challenger) to get a really good picture, but I can't seem to find a recent breakdown. It's no secret his power level has been reduced from its peak, but he still has a lot of potential in the hand of a good player.
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On February 24 2015 09:01 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
in the mid lane what's the best thing to do if you force your opponent to recall? should I push the wave into tower then immediately recall myself, try to damage tower, or something else?
depends.
If you have low hp/have gold you need to spend, then shove it in and back.
If you don't have reason to back, you can either stay in lane normally and collect a larger CS lead, or go for tower, or roam. This all depends on your judgement of if you will be able to handle him after he comes back and buys (if you don't), if you have great pushing power (or if he does), or if there is a gank opportunity, or if you know the location of the enemy jungle.
It's a very complicated decision. If you aren't sure what to do in a given situation , your safest bet is to shove and get as much of a cs lead as you can and then back. Take tower if possible. Neither is usually a bad decision, just potentially not the most you could get.
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On February 24 2015 09:11 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2015 09:01 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
in the mid lane what's the best thing to do if you force your opponent to recall? should I push the wave into tower then immediately recall myself, try to damage tower, or something else?
depends. If you have low hp/have gold you need to spend, then shove it in and back. If you don't have reason to back, you can either stay in lane normally and collect a larger CS lead, or go for tower, or roam. This all depends on your judgement of if you will be able to handle him after he comes back and buys (if you don't), if you have great pushing power (or if he does), or if there is a gank opportunity, or if you know the location of the enemy jungle. It's a very complicated decision. If you aren't sure what to do in a given situation , your safest bet is to shove and get as much of a cs lead as you can and then back. Take tower if possible. Neither is usually a bad decision, just potentially not the most you could get.
thanks that helps a bunch.
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What are some heroes with a high skill cap/very strong in the hands of a good player? I've been recommended Riven, Lee Sin, and Vayne more or less. Sounds fine?
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On February 24 2015 09:01 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
in mid assuming your at similar cs in lane what's the best thing to do if you force your opponent to recall assuming their aren't any major objectives to take? should I push the wave into tower then immediately recall myself, try to damage tower, try to place deepwards, something else?
does it depend on what champion your on?
if you aren't low enough to die to an enemy jungler or if you are but the jungler is currently somewhere else on the map then push it hard and back
On February 24 2015 09:18 Slardar wrote:
What are some heroes with a high skill cap/very strong in the hands of a good player? I've been recommended Riven, Lee Sin, and Vayne more or less. Sounds fine?
anivia, ori, tf, and cass if you are interested in mid lane options
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On January 23 2015 09:02 sDgotto wrote:
Hi everyone.
Im sure many people agree with me when I say I like to watch replays of myself to improve myself.
As we all know unfortunately, Riot STILL does not have a recording/replay system.
After doing tons of research I know there are 3 main ones:
-baronreplays
-lolreplay
-op.gg
Could someone tell me what is the most stable/reliable recording software for league of legends? It is so hard to find one -.- lolreplay has a reputation of being buggy. Baron , same as lolreplay, does not seem to work for the new SR map. OP.gg seems decent but does not always work when I click "record"
What do you use for recording your matches?
Tried using Open Broadcaster Software? You can record your own vision of a LoL game. During the game, you can see where your vision is and where your mouse cursor is. This can be useful to spot mechanical mistakes or tendencies you make while cs'ing such as left-click, right-click, cs (which can be used against you).
It is only from your point of view and your teams fog of war, but it may help you focus on things like your movement as you hit level advantages / disadvantages and the times that you ward.
*Just noticed how old that post was tt
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On February 24 2015 09:18 Slardar wrote:
What are some heroes with a high skill cap/very strong in the hands of a good player? I've been recommended Riven, Lee Sin, and Vayne more or less. Sounds fine?
My high skill cap list (not necessarily high or low skill floor)
Anivia
Ahri
Azir
Gnar
Fizz
Leblanc
Nidalee
Orianna
Riven
Shaco
Thresh
Yasuo
Zed
Ziggs
AP Kog
Jayce
Some like Vayne and Draven and Cass are mechanically difficult but not that interesting strategically. TF is very high skill cap in gamesense of where to go, and kind of mechanically hard in picking cards. But his actual combat is pretty rote.
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EPT
