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TheLastRaven
26 Posts
On May 05 2013 05:25 LazyFailKid wrote: I'm not sure how the matchup goes, but you should probably ask in the Jayce thread for counterplay/picks against him. Oh no, I was referring to Elise as the insane champion. | ||
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BreakfastBurrito
United States893 Posts
On May 05 2013 07:23 TheLastRaven wrote: Oh no, I was referring to Elise as the insane champion. People seem to think that Jayce can autokill elise, and I agree that he can win lane but I think it would come down to skill more than most people give it credit for, skill meaning when to trade and how much mana you can afford to use etc... yorick would also be good i guess, the classic top lane prick. Ghouls run interference on the jihad spiders pretty well. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I feel like I can go even with Elise as Jayce maybe during laning due to the fact they are both transformers, but not as Jax. I'd feel bad if someone picked Elise after I picked Jax. If I jump on her I get stunned and lose the trade pre 6. And I'm not sure about the outcome post 6 either. I imagine it'd go, her Q, my Q, my auto, her stun, her explosive spider, and her getting away from me. From there she's won the trade due to minions and more damage than me. If I used E, then Q, E for the stun immediately, she could still win with her human rotation followed by the spider form rotation due to her doing more damage with my E down. And as soon as I've lost lane control she can just spam Q and W on me while I'm under tower with her low mana costs. I imagine I'd just have to get TP to deal with harass, assert some good lane/brush control so I don't get harassed to shit at low levels, and then hope for the best mid game with ganks and teamfights or Elise misplays or that I get carried by my team. | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
I'm kind of thinking she'd be really good at roaming due to her amazing ganking potential with 2 gapclosers (Q a minor one, E a big one), and a stun. She's also exceptional at bursting squishies, and as mid she still allows the top lane to build quite tanky if the team comp requires. | ||
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skunk_works
United States109 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On May 26 2013 16:57 Sajaki wrote: Why isn't elise seen mid anymore? Is it because she's just better against most top lane champs then mid, or is mid elise simply less explored then top/support? I think it's mostly due to the fact you want to max q first for trades, but she needs to level volatile spider if she wants to clear quickly. So you have to sacrifice wave clear for trading, thus people will just shove the lane all day long and roam, because it is mid. Also volatile spider is somewhat unreliable and tends to not go exactly where you want it to at times. I really love playing Elise jungle. I hate playing her as a top, but she's a lot of fun when you can roam around and land her full combo on some unsuspecting sap. She's absurd when she's part of a poke team (provided you can land stuns). | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On May 29 2013 22:20 zer0das wrote: I think it's mostly due to the fact you want to max q first for trades, but she needs to level volatile spider if she wants to clear quickly. So you have to sacrifice wave clear for trading, thus people will just shove the lane all day long and roam, because it is mid. Also volatile spider is somewhat unreliable and tends to not go exactly where you want it to at times. I really love playing Elise jungle. I hate playing her as a top, but she's a lot of fun when you can roam around and land her full combo on some unsuspecting sap. She's absurd when she's part of a poke team (provided you can land stuns). I'm not the biggest fan of her in the jungle. Don't get me wrong, her jungle clearing (and safety while doing so), objective control, and ganks are all really good, but she isn't all that tanky going into the lategame, especially after the nerfs. She falls off quite badly without items (even with items her lategame isn't great) and if you have to invest in aura items/locket your damage will be lower still... That's why I'm trying to combine her roaming potential with a solo lane. If you max W first, the spiderling will jump to the target of Spider's Q if close enough... perhaps i can make this a good trading combo, I need to test this. I REALLY want to play this champion mid. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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GhoSt[shield]
Canada2131 Posts
Jungle is 9/21/0 due to lack of mr/ar scaling overall and on R. magic pen reds armor yellows scaling mr blues Attk speed or MS Quints W-Q-E then prioritize Q. Go gank. W cd is just wayy too long you don't end up using more than once per camp. Let her spiderlings tank as much as possible by kiting back after a Spiderform Q, the spiderlings will jump forward and immediately draw aggro from camp. After being frustrated with being fed but unable to carry from the Jungle with junglers like Lee, J4 or Noc I went with Elise and am grinding her in games hard. If u get your items you are monsterous till late late game. Jungle AP item + sorc boots + rylais really does nice dmg. When you are forced to go tanky with Locket, Bulwark, and other items you really feel ineffective dmg wise and you kind of bait yourself into thinking you can still kill ppl but just get baited yourself. Elise does kinda bad against heavy ap teams. Since you don't get mr/ar scaling even with bulwark and scaling mr blues I barely crack 120 MR with Bulwark + Negatron mid-late game. Since she has short range for both her Q's long range ap dmg or silences really, really hurts and also messes up your combos. Elise really shines with a team that already has a tanky hard initation. She really does not want to be the first in the fight, although as a jungler that will often happen. Elise kind of does best peeling for an adc while poking and looking for an assasination of a low hp target in spider form (EQ). Elise cleans up teamfights absurdly well with rappel and venomous bite if you are patient about when you go in. Top Elise is fun too, you need to build tankier to trade but you do very consistent burst dmg and benefit hugely from lvls. Her human form auto attack though  such an awkward animation to get used to.Elise is so much fun.  | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
I've tried the following the last 5-6 games with good success: machete + 5pot -> spirit stone + boots -> SotSW + tabi/sorc -> wit's end -> aegis/bulwark Really want to add in haunting guise, but I feel it delays aegis too much. The new wit's end is really good on her, gives her tank stats, on-hit damage, and more flat MR reduction. late-game items are abyssal/frozen heart/rylai's/liandry's depending on what your team needs | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11952 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
Machete ->Boots -> Spirit of Spectral Wraith -> Locket/Bulwark/Whatever | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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scFoX
France454 Posts
Then again, I am a lowly KR silver player, so maybe I'm not playing optimally. I do know this kind of build is very popular in Korea, though. | ||
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Silentenigma
Turkey2037 Posts
On June 26 2013 10:41 Scip wrote: Im not that big of a fan of Zhonyas, it seems most useful for champions who need to wait a few seconds for cooldowns and someone who dives deep into the enemy lines, I don't think Elise is either. Her autoattack is pretty beast because of spinderling but they don't do anything when you zhonyas IIRC. Same for Rylais, doesn't seem that useful because you really shouldn't be diving onto people due to lack of good CC while in spider form and no innate survivability skills apart from spider E. I approve of Spectral Wrath and Haunting Guise though, best items to stack up your dmg probably. You need to dive in spider form if you want to play elise effectively.If you are only using human form in fights you are wasting her potential spider form damage.Remember she is tanky ap carry. I think rylais and liandras are core for elise because of tankyness they gave you and good damage boost.I also enjoy rushing spirit of spectral wraiths if I am toplane nowadays.It gives you cheap mana regeneration and spell vamp for complete lane domination. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
As Simberto said, mostly skirt around the edge throwing spells and once I have cooldowns I can jump in on a bruiser who should be moderately exposed. Elise got some sick deeps but it's next to impossible to apply them to the enemy carry. I mean if there's an opportunity to seriously apply those deeps to enemy AD carry in a way that wouldnt get you killed super fast then go for it, but it's not very likely to happen. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On June 26 2013 20:40 Scip wrote: I don't want to comment on solo lane Elise, but for jungle Elise, you are nowhere near tanky enough to dive people unless you have a massive Wombo Combo to go with; in which case you would probably be better served by a different jungler. As Simberto said, mostly skirt around the edge throwing spells and once I have cooldowns I can jump in on a bruiser who should be moderately exposed. Elise got some sick deeps but it's next to impossible to apply them to the enemy carry. I mean if there's an opportunity to seriously apply those deeps to enemy AD carry in a way that wouldnt get you killed super fast then go for it, but it's not very likely to happen. Tbh even after you get items you dont feel tanky enough to do much imo. I mean hoodie gives good sustain via the spell vamp, but even building straight tank after it doesnt seem like you can really take many hits. and diving an adc is suicide if they arent massively behind | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
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