|
Elise, the Spider Queen
Its time. people may have played this champs a bit after her release, and she was solid if pretty wierd. She's cool because she can play mid top or jungle. However, now with the itemization changes and the change to how magic pen works, Elise is a fucking monster. Let me show you:
Abilities:
![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121018200156/leagueoflegends/images/e/ef/Spider_Swarm.jpg)
Passive - Spider Swarm When Elise's Human Form spells hit an enemy, she readies a Spiderling. When Elise transforms, she summons Spiderlings to attack nearby foes. The maximum number of spiderlings increases with Spider Form's level.
This is a bit of a strange passive, seems like it should be part of her R, but hey its ok. Basically you get little minions in spider form. they do solid damage, help you sustain, and very importantly block the shit out of single target skillshots.
![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121018200222/leagueoflegends/images/5/52/Neurotoxin.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121018200241/leagueoflegends/images/7/70/Venomous_Bite.jpg)
Q - Neurotoxin/ Venomous Bite: Deals magic damage equal to a base amount plus a percentage of the target's current health. In Spider form Elise lunges to a target with a poisonous bite that deals magic damage equal to a base amount plus a percentage of the target's missing health.
Percent health damage is pretty strong.This is your bread and butter skill. In Human form its a great low CD midrange targeted harass. In spider form its a savage execution move and gap closer. The cost in human form is 60 at all levels, so its very cheap, and the cost of all her spider spells is ZERO. Many people do not realize this. spam spam spam. Remember human Q is better when they have alot of health, spider Q when they are low. Her spider Q will cause ALL spider minions to jump with you and focus your target. Despite making he jump forward, she cannot cross terrain with her bite, although you can "bite" people through walls and do damage.
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121018200306/leagueoflegends/images/3/30/Volatile_Spiderling.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121018200327/leagueoflegends/images/e/e4/Skittering_Frenzy.jpg)
W - Volatile Spiderling/Skittering Frenzy: Summons an explosive spider to chase down an enemy and then explode.In Spider form gives fatttt attack speed to you and your spiderlings, plus a bit of life on hit
The explosive spiderling is a bit wierd too, it does solid AOE damage but it explodes on the first enemy it touches, which makes it kind of hard to use. Its good for poke later in the game and has a very solid ratio. It will prioritize champions so you can shoot it past the side of creeps and it will then lock onto and chase the champion. Since it gets blocked by creeps its often beneficial to fire it away from an enemy with creeps in between you, then spider form Q them to cause it to jump onto them for guaranteed damage. The spiderling also gives vision, so you can use it to scout. The Spider form W gives you and your spiderlings the largest AS steroid in the game, that's correct, the largest in the game. It also makes your spiderlings attacks heal you for a bit. Use it when you allin, or just activate it in lane. Your spiderlings will hit creeps and give you a nice little free heal. Maxed out you and your spiderlings do about .8 AP per hit plus 300AD,not even joking, nobody can stand toe to toe with that at 140% AS.
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121018200402/leagueoflegends/images/6/6c/Cocoon.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121018200419/leagueoflegends/images/e/ed/Rappel.jpg)
E - Cocoon/Rappel:Elise fires a web that stuns and reveals the first enemy hit for 1.5 seconds. Elise reveals nearby enemy targets while she and her Spiderlings lift up into the air, becoming untargetable for 2 seconds. During that time she can cast Rappel again to descend upon a nearby enemy.
Cocoon is a simple skillshot stun. It reveals, so its also great for brush checking.
Rappel is not actually a very complicated spell. You use it and essentially leave the map, then you can click on any enemy in the radius to drop on them. If you just target an enemy flat out you will just immediately go to them. This is your escape and your long range gap closer and your wait for Cd's and dodge stuff spell. The CD is very long so you are only gonna get one, dont waste it. If you are going to need an escape, plan out an escape route with an enemy to rappel to. This spell is also commonly used to finish off low health targets from huge distances (EQ). Also great for if you get tower dived to make them sit around and wait for you to come down. If using Rappel to try to gap close on a fleeing enemy make sure to target them specifically, if you just activate the skill and it turns our they were a tiny bit too far you will be up in the air and ruin your chances of catching them. Whereas if you target them elise will not Rappel until she can drop on them,
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121018200555/leagueoflegends/images/4/4c/Spider_Form.jpg)
R - Human/ Spider Form: Elise can change into a spider, switching her skillset, gaining magic damage on auto, summoning her spiderlings, and giving her bonus armor and MR, and bonus movespeed. She is melee in this form.
You have this at level 1. The movespeed is great, always be in spider form for long distance travel and running away. There is a CD on this, so you will need to preswitch into the form you need for a situation in order to execute your combos. Remember this skill is also free.
BASIC PLAY AND COMBOS:
Elise is all about combos, this is really important.
Your max damage full combo is this:
Start in human form with the cd off and ready to switch again.
1. E: Stun them
2. QW: percent current health and explosive spiderling while they cant run. If creeps are in between you and them, fire the spiderling away from them.
3. Switch to spider form
4. QW: jump to them and do percent missing health damage, activate AS buff to follow up. If you fired the explosive spiderling away it will jump to them when you Q.
5. E Rappel to chase or escape.
EQWRQWE
This combo should take like a second once you have it down and do absurd damage. they have no choice but to run like a little bitch, because its not like you are on Cd either and they can retaliate, you are whaling on them at 140% AS. sustained damage champs who would normally stick around and try to trade back after a combo will get destroyed. YOU MUST KNOW THIS COMBO WELL IF YOU PLAN ON SUCCEEDING WITH ELISE.
Your finish off a low enemy combo:
Start in spider form
optional: Flash
1. E Rappel, target them specifically
2. QW
3. if they are escaping, switch to human and toss an EQW after them.
EQWREQW
Human form Q will do alot less damage if they are really low but it will still do a nice hit of damage, dont forget to use it.
Your disable/hold a target down so a gank can come in or your team can catch up.
Start in spider
1. E Rappel
2. Q
3. Switch human
4. immediately stun E them from point blank where you cant miss
5. QW
EQREQW
ITEMIZATION:
OK, so since Elise has all this low CD percent health damage, magic pen is extremely strong on her. With the new items she has a core item base I would stick to 95% of the time:
boots3>haunting guise>Sorcs>rylais>Liandrys (later)
Since pen is so good on Elise, she built Guise even before Liandry's existed. Rylais is also a completely core item on her, you absolutely need it in order to be able to stick on people and use the absurd damage from your AS boost and spiderlings, and you need the health from both of those items in order to not get blown up when you are in melee range executing your combos. So if both of those items are already there then Liandry's is the obvious choice. After this there are several great items that I honestly wouldn't fault anyone for buying. Lately I have changed my mind, Liandrys is actually pretty crap, guise is still a must buy, but if getting liandrys can wait until realllly late if you choose to use it at all.
Dcap: Great, more damage if you have a nice tanky team and can just build more damage. I don't build this as much because you do plenty without it and defense is good.
Abyssal: Really strong, basically adds more pen and great MR if you are dealing with magic damage threats.
Void Staff: Magic pen, more damage and neccesary lategame.
Guardian Angel: If you are getting focused.
DFG: Yeah, you can play her like Evelynn, you do absurd burst, just hide in bushes and destroy people.
Hourglass Very strong teamfighting item, this plus Rappel makes you very hard to focus down.
Malady and Rageblade These are more jungle/top Elise items, but quite good for the midgame especially, and if you are investing more into W over Q.
For Jungle Elise I open machete 5pot, You want to get Spirit of the Spectral Wraith over wriggles unless you are very behind.
SKILL ORDER:
For Mid and Top:
R>Q>W>E
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/G4RTx.png)
I get a point in E at lvl 2, as its incredibly important utility, and you cant use W properly until a bit later.
For Jungle you are going to use the same general idea, but get W at level 1 for the AOE spider and AS. For jungle you must choose between leveling more W for faster clears, or more Q for more ganking and fighting power. Unless the game is absurdly passive I highly recommend leveling Q over W, as you clears will still be stupidly fast with this priority and the killing power increase is VERY significant.
I would go Ignite Flash on Elise nearly all the time, she needs the escape from flash, and ignite is always good on bursty champs. I wouldn't be too averse to running Ghost instead of ignite though, as being able to chase better will result in more damage just like ignite, as well as helping you escape. People don't often escape from Elise with low health with her execution Q and ability to Rappel at the end of her combo to catch anyone.
RUNES & MASTERIES
I run standard 21/0/9 for the buff duration, but you could run 21/9/0 if you were a bit more conservative with mana or weren't planning on holding blue. Elises mana cost are incredibly low.
For jungle you will want 21/9/0 with all the minion damage reduction you can get. I also go for the AD (brute force) over the AP (mental force). First clear will be a bit ouchy but with a decent leash you should be smooth sailing after that.
For Mid I run Mpen Reds/MR Yellows/MR Blues/ AP quints (I don't have Mpen)
For Top and jungle I run Mpen Reds/Armor Yellows/MR Blues/AP Quints.
TIPS
1. Plan your escape route. Engage near their or your wraiths or with a minion wave in the correct position to escape to with a Rappel. You can combo someone under their tower without taking a shot if you time it well.
2. Never ever walk into a bush blind. Both explosive spiderling and your stun give vision, use them.
3. Rappel does no damage, you can use it to escape over the wall into baron or dragon pit without aggroing them.
4. Switch to Spider form if you see or predict incoming single target skillshots. spiderlings have a good chance of blocking them.
5. If you are ahead in lane but they are ranged and keep backing up when you try to Neurotoxin harass, try CSing in spider form, then rapidly switching to human form and firing it. The MS will help you get into range and people dont expect ranged spells out of the spider.
6. If you get jumped and are going to die, its always worth switching to spider and popping Rappel. Maybe some minion will wander in and allow you to escape, at the worse it takes them 2 more seconds to kill you.
|
Thanks for the guide. Any tips for team fights? Even with the health items I feel squishy, and just don't really know what I should be doing. She cleans up great, but in the beginning I feel like I'm just poking in human form and wasting all that spider damage - though if I turn into spider form I just get blown away.
|
On December 15 2012 21:01 Tal wrote:
Thanks for the guide. Any tips for team fights? Even with the health items I feel squishy, and just don't really know what I should be doing. She cleans up great, but in the beginning I feel like I'm just poking in human form and wasting all that spider damage - though if I turn into spider form I just get blown away.
Just standard assassin stuff, you shouldn't be going in until the fight has already begun and people have picked targets unless someone is out of position and you can jump them without retribution. Elises poke is very solid so you aren't wasting anything. Whats nice about her is you have no long CD's to blow except Rappel, and you have great sustained damage, so its no problem to go full combo on a tank or initiator on the edge of the fight, do an assload of damage and then find a squishy later or back off and reingage. With the percent damage and the AS buff you can do obscene damage to tanky people, so there is usually no need to dive too far in.
GA or Hourglass are key if you are getting focused but you team is doing ok. If you just get destroyed then you or your team probably fed and you're fucked.
Never use Rappel to engage unless its an absurdly high value target, a lot of times you can rappel to a creep camp if you start taking heavy damage if you are fighting in the jungle, or to baron or dragon. You don't have to make it all the way out of the fight, just make people pick new targets or put distance on whoever is killing you.
|
When playing top Elise I think you're much more useful building tanky.
Elise has two percentage health based abilities. With guise, abyssal and sorc shoes you're doing a lot of damage and you can afford to get into fights. Depending on how the game is going I'll pick up Iceborn Gauntlet after my Guise/Sorcs. Then look at Abyssal into Warmogs or GA. Finish off with void staff or death cap and your damage is solid.
Of course this varies depending on match ups and how the game plays out. Elise has good damage with just the % health.
*edit - If their AD is scary, going frozen heart/iceborn to max cdr with auras and armor makes elise really scary with her percent dmg.
|
On December 16 2012 06:14 JonnyLaw wrote:
When playing top Elise I think you're much more useful building tanky.
Elise has two percentage health based abilities. With guise, abyssal and sorc shoes you're doing a lot of damage and you can afford to get into fights. Depending on how the game is going I'll pick up Iceborn Gauntlet after my Guise/Sorcs. Then look at Abyssal into Warmogs or GA. Finish off with void staff or death cap and your damage is solid.
Of course this varies depending on match ups and how the game plays out. Elise has good damage with just the % health.
*edit - If their AD is scary, going frozen heart/iceborn to max cdr with auras and armor makes elise really scary with her percent dmg.
I haven't played much top at all, I've stuck 90% of the time to jungle and mid, so I'm totally open to any top suggestions.
On a side note I have tried out the Spirit of the Spectral Wraith and I think its definitely the way to go for jungle Elise. Its build up is annoyingly long, but it seems to work much better and is a much more useful item in general than wriggles or madreds. You can clear camps absurdly fast if you get ahead a bit, like faster than any jungle I've tried before.
Remember your combo for clearing Red/Blue is starting human, QW Smite, spider form, WQ. Using smite before your spider Q and waiting for a few hits of AS buff before using it Q for execution will speed up the process a lot.
Also I played support Elise for a game and was really surprised at her damage even with no CS.
|
I love Elise, played her since launch. I play her exclusively since I can support with her. I think this champion is very underrated and wish there was more discussion here about her!
|
Elise is brutal as well as super fun and it's a good thing not many people know about it! Though when played top it's kind of hard to cs well without pushing the lane since the spiderlings own creeps even when you don't want them to and her caster auto is very weak.
Although this may seem wrong on paper I personally found Liandry to be hugely overrated in practice and way too expensive for what it does after having built it with modest success for quite a number of games. I also don't think she needs any specific sustain in jungle apart from a bunch of pots early on - once you get Rylai the spiders will sustain you quite well and the spirit thingy feels like a huge money sink compared to something as beastly as gauntlet or frozen heart.
I rush sorc boots into Rylai every game and then take abyssal instead of visage/liandry to finish the core damage set at which point the champs wrecks face and you just walk around owning people and hoarding uber tanky loot ^__^
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
Another method for solo top is a full mpen runepage, sorcs, trifoce, full tank. vs bruisers like olaf/irelia it is magnificently strong. you're nidalee 2.0 with hella %hp-based damage.
this build lets you stay in teamfights much longer, and is a pretty even split between phys and magic damage, making her hard to itemize against defensively.
aspd onhit builds with some light ap seem quite effective in terms of dps but they severely lack the utility other builds have.
|
Been playing her as my main top champ since her release (don't like her on mid at all).
She just crushes 95% of bruisers so brutally, you actually feel sorry for them.
Have likely tired out all viable of builds for her and must say, I really don't like the glass-cannon assassin idea at all.
What I've been recently doing is Ryals->Sorc->Warmogs-> Liandry's with 9-21 masteries.
Get on their ad and suck up that 4k dmg for your team.
Not quite sure what is the best way to cap it off yet. Abyssal and Zonyas are nice ofc but so are Hextech, Lich Bane and Dcap.
|
The Spider form W gives you and your spiderlings the largest AS steroid in the game, that's correct, the largest in the game.
then spider form Q them to cause it to jump onto them for guaranteed damage.
Jayce gets more but only for three attacks. I know this is a hype guide but... eh.
I think you mean E. Didn't know the volatile spiderling followed you. I don't think it does.
|
No, the spiderling follows if you spider Q on somebody.
|
I prefer to play Elise top lane and tanky. I've had the best success building her with TriForce + Tanky. But situationally I've done really well with magic pen builds (Sorcs+HG+Abyssal+Tanky).
Other items I find work really well with her are Iceborn Gauntlet and Wits End.
However with the changes to the Gunblade and Rageblade, both of those look really good on Elise. Has anyone played her as a hybrid champ using these items? I haven't yet but I'm going to bring her back into my play this weekend.
She's a very versatile hybrid damage champ that can play at least on par any role (except adc). There are so many items that she can utilize. How is everyone on TL building Elise and in what lane/matchup?
|
I'd like to add that near the end of season 2, Shy was wreaking face with Elise in tournament play with only Sorcs, Shurelyas, and 3 Dorans Shield!
|
I feel like new Rageblade makes sense on Elise since she can keep up stacks with her ult all game. Also spiderform W can sorta be spammed.
|
|
|
How do you deal with people who repeatedly shove the wave under the tower? Lasthitting in spider form leaves you open to harass and you can't effectively instaclear until a fair bit of ap and max w - even then the spider is pretty annoying to land onto the ranged creeps.
|
On January 05 2013 03:26 greggy wrote:
How do you deal with people who repeatedly shove the wave under the tower? Lasthitting in spider form leaves you open to harass and you can't effectively instaclear until a fair bit of ap and max w - even then the spider is pretty annoying to land onto the ranged creeps.
I had this issue just last night, though I shouldn't have since it was Ryze. He just got every blue (including our first, thanks to our Trundle) and spammed until I was under tower.
I think you deal with it how you do on any other champion that suffers that issue. Farming with Q and autos isn't too bad with practice, and you just ward his routes and call mia, following if necessary. It's a bit more annoying than most, but nothing too terrible.
|
Usually I end up pushing the lane since I'm constantly harassing with my Q. When I can't force my opponent out of lane and they start to push my way I try to last hit in spider form and allow my spiderlings to nibble on the creeps (healing myself). That's usually enough to sustain myself through any of their harrassment and last hitting under tower is pretty easy when in spider form.
|
You didnt make it clear in the guide, but the spiderling from volatile spiderling will jump with you when you q in spiderform.
|
I played her a bit in solo Q, shes easy to dominate lane with but really really hard to carry with
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
In jungle, you can play with 21/0/9 just fine, you shouldn't have any problems with HP after the first clear and if you start Machete+5 like you probably should, even the first clear you should be able to stay full hp. I'd reccomend getting more than 1 level in W for jungle Elise though, it really helps clearing small camps and it's also better for clearing creep waves, and in a straight up fight it's honestly not that much worse than max Q.
Also, I don't reeeally like Mres blues on jungle Elise, I like flat AP a bit better, it helps you jungle faster, which allows you take less damage in the jungle. For magic resist later Abyssal isn't actually half bad on Elise, as long as you have an AP middle (which is think you should for teamcomp reasons)
|
On January 05 2013 12:05 Scip wrote:
In jungle, you can play with 21/0/9 just fine, you shouldn't have any problems with HP after the first clear and if you start Machete+5 like you probably should, even the first clear you should be able to stay full hp. I'd reccomend getting more than 1 level in W for jungle Elise though, it really helps clearing small camps and it's also better for clearing creep waves, and in a straight up fight it's honestly not that much worse than max Q.
Also, I don't reeeally like Mres blues on jungle Elise, I like flat AP a bit better, it helps you jungle faster, which allows you take less damage in the jungle. For magic resist later Abyssal isn't actually half bad on Elise, as long as you have an AP middle (which is think you should for teamcomp reasons)
21/0/9 isn't too great on elise tbh. She doesn't scale that well from ability power. She scales better with magic penetration. I'd recommend going 9/21/0 if u need to be tanky or go 9/0/21 for the mobility. Also for runes, you are better off using armor seals and flat magic pen for the rest, movement speed quints if you 9/21/0. Another Option is flat armor seals, flat cdr blues and the rest flat magic pen with 9/0/21. This will give you 15% starting cdr which gives you faster clears and pretty much always assures that you can finish people off with the additional cdr inbetween forms.
|
would just like to say that this champion is broken
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
In the early game and depending on the circumstances flat AP quints are going to be better than flat magic pen quints usually up to about level 11 by my estimates, it is also strictly better for clearing jungle and better for killing creep waves which is something you might or might not want to do. Movement speed quints do probably rival or slightly outdo flat AP quints as far as jungle clear goes, I don't think they are anywhere near as good for the first few skirmishes though.
flat AP blues vs. magic pen blues is a bit closer, but flat AP blues are still going to be a bit better early game for both fights and jungling, which I value more.
Even if you start 9/0/21 on jungle Elise I don't think you can afford to start machete+flask, which is usually the main selling point of this mastery setup, although maaaybe you could do it with some really really sick spiderling micro. Hard to tell. If you can then I suppose it is a viable way to spec.
I don't really see the point of going 9/21/0 on jungle Elise, you aren't going to build tanky and you shouldn't really tank things at all. Picking Elise really should be only if you for some weird reason want a heavy AP damage poke-y jungle. Given how well Elise can lane, you shouldn't have problems fitting her into either top or mid even if you firstpick her.
|
On January 05 2013 20:51 Scip wrote:
In the early game and depending on the circumstances flat AP quints are going to be better than flat magic pen quints usually up to about level 11 by my estimates, it is also strictly better for clearing jungle and better for killing creep waves which is something you might or might not want to do. Movement speed quints do probably rival or slightly outdo flat AP quints as far as jungle clear goes, I don't think they are anywhere near as good for the first few skirmishes though.
flat AP blues vs. magic pen blues is a bit closer, but flat AP blues are still going to be a bit better early game for both fights and jungling, which I value more.
Even if you start 9/0/21 on jungle Elise I don't think you can afford to start machete+flask, which is usually the main selling point of this mastery setup, although maaaybe you could do it with some really really sick spiderling micro. Hard to tell. If you can then I suppose it is a viable way to spec.
I don't really see the point of going 9/21/0 on jungle Elise, you aren't going to build tanky and you shouldn't really tank things at all. Picking Elise really should be only if you for some weird reason want a heavy AP damage poke-y jungle. Given how well Elise can lane, you shouldn't have problems fitting her into either top or mid even if you firstpick her.
At all stages of the game Mpen is better on Elise. Her q in both forms (main damage source) ONLY scales off magicpen. By running flat AP blues you are only adding 8 damage on your W. Running ap quints only adds 12-13. It does not benefit any of your other abilities while magic penetration benefits her whole kit as well as scales better into mid-late game. And as far as 9/21/0 for jungle elise, You do this when you want to start boots or if you are going to be building as one of the team's main tank after sorc shoes/guise.
I do agree that elise makes a better laner than jungler, but magic pen is the way to go on her. Here is a guide from Arthelon(a very high elo top laner who played for mMe/Orb currently on meat playground):http://www.lolpro.com/guides/elise/436-elise-guide-ap-top-mid-by-arthelon
This will help you out in understanding why magic pen is better on elise if you don't quite get what i'm talking about.
|
Elise is an unreal jungler, on top of being my favorite champion.
I can't remember my exact setup for her, in lane I run mpen reds/quints and armor/mr yellows and blues, jungle I think I use ap quints instead. 9 in offense, some mix of the other two trees. I don't even think I start machete. I'll have to check my games over when I get back on my good pc.
In OGN the trend seems to be to build her sorcs+warmogs+shurelyas
|
Elise tends to have to get up close often and has no MR scaling with levels outside her ult, so running MR blues is not at all a bad idea. Even in lanes where you don't really need MR its worth it for the later teamfights/jungle ganks against many a champion. For quints if you are jungling I would go with AP or movement speed. Sure magic pen is slightly stronger in fights but it does not speed up your jungle or make a huge difference in ganks unless you get counter ganked.
As for picking Elise as a jungler: you pick her because you want incredibly potent ganks that are hard to ward against.
|
Checked my Lolking...I actually run 21/9 on Elise jungle, with the ap quints setup from my previous post
open boots3 -> dorans ->guise
after watching recent ogn i'm considering doing a kindlegem or straight wmogs before guise though
|
On January 06 2013 02:13 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Checked my Lolking...I actually run 21/9 on Elise jungle, with the ap quints setup from my previous post
open boots3 -> dorans ->guise
after watching recent ogn i'm considering doing a kindlegem or straight wmogs before guise though
I feel this says a lot about Elise. Building HP and still having damage output so cray cray
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Wait, what do you mean that Elise doesn't scale with AP? She has several ratios:
Her Q has 0.03% scaling per 1 AP in both forms,
her human W has 0.8 AP scaling, her spider form healing has 0.02 AP ratio (insignificant, I know, but still)
and most importantly, her spider form autoattack has 0.3 AP ratio (!!) and her spiderlings have 0.1 AP ratio. Add 0.05 AP ratio to her autoattack if you have the spellsword mastery.
So no, magic pen is nowhere near "always superior to AP on Elise"
|
Depends on the skill usage then I guess. AP superior for clearing with W mid I guess, MPen vastly better top when they're more likely to have MR and you'll rely on more harass before you can try to get a kill. In teamfights, do you auto a lot compared to the poke in teamfights?
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
We're talking about jungle Elise right now.
|
Dis champ real dumb lol. Like Nid, but trades mobility for having a a stupid good stun and 2 %health scaling nukes that just obliterate everything.
|
Q first for jungle? I've been leveling W for the wolves/blue clear and it's like having an extra hp pot as well the aoe damage from spiders.
Really like her in the jungle. Her clear speed is incredible, she has a great toolkit for ganks and doesn't need an insane amount of items to do relevant damage. She feels powerful when she's ahead, and effective when she's behind which is something I like in junglers.
|
Q max first, but skill WQQE imo, her build path is flexible though
|
What are people doing with their Machete? Neither wriggles or spectral wraith seem any good. Upgrade to Ancient Golem or just sell your SS later.
|
I just leave it at SS. The regen is nice and not too expensive. I guess Spectral Wraith or Ancient Golem would be good later on, but not worth delaying Guise/Boots/etc over.
|
On January 08 2013 00:56 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Q max first, but skill WQQE imo, her build path is flexible though
WQEQ is fine if you are ganking at level 3 right?
|
Spectral Wraith makes her just annihilate the jungle, but it feels like a bit of overkill. SS is mandatory but Ancient Golem is the upgrade I'd consider so you can get tenacity and Sorcs.
|
I open W on jungle Elise, let's you get good damage off if you start wolves. Spirit of the Spectral Wraith is pointless on Elise IMO, she doesn't need spell vamp but you can skip Rylais because of Ancient Golem. I do max Q first for better ganks, but W first clears wolves + blue faster
|
honestly I open boots 3 on her, you really don't need machete
|
you don't need it but it's still nice, especially 1-5 and if you decide to counterjungle. I don't upgrade it unless I'm behind because I haven't actually found a timing where it'd be useful. I'd rather have parts of guise, and then there isn't a big difference between spirit stone and sorc, so I'd rather save up for that, and after that the regen really fades off, especially if you pick up giant's belt next.
|
Is anybody building anything other than "Sorcs, Guise, Rylais, Liandrys" as core on lane Elise? Even when jungling I only toss in a SS with that build.
|
i go warmogs instead of rylais, korean style is warmog+shurelia (+ sunfire sometimes i think) if that interests you
|
Okay so i have 7000 IP to spend and i really want to buy elise however i don't really know... what defines her? What defines het from other (top) lane bullies like for example jayce, nida, shen? Because she looks so cool but i almost exclusively play bullies on top lane so i think i should buy something else if she is just like the others i mentioned before. Thanks!
|
On January 09 2013 05:27 Immortall wrote:
Okay so i have 7000 IP to spend and i really want to buy elise however i don't really know... what defines her? What defines het from other (top) lane bullies like for example jayce, nida, shen? Because she looks so cool but i almost exclusively play bullies on top lane so i think i should buy something else if she is just like the others i mentioned before. Thanks!
She's similar to Jayce or Nid, not so much Shen at all.
She has strong ranged harass, but low clearing/pushing power. She has some sustain, but needs to switch to melee form to use it. She lacks really any escape aside from Stun and a minor speed boost in Spider form. Her strength lies in high damage consistently through all game, strong gank support with 2 gap closers and a stun, safe farming, and relatively low mana costs that allow her to stay in lane for a long time.
|
On January 09 2013 05:32 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 05:27 Immortall wrote:
Okay so i have 7000 IP to spend and i really want to buy elise however i don't really know... what defines her? What defines het from other (top) lane bullies like for example jayce, nida, shen? Because she looks so cool but i almost exclusively play bullies on top lane so i think i should buy something else if she is just like the others i mentioned before. Thanks! She's similar to Jayce or Nid, not so much Shen at all. She has strong ranged harass, but low clearing/pushing power. She has some sustain, but needs to switch to melee form to use it. She lacks really any escape aside from Stun and a minor speed boost in Spider form. Her strength lies in high damage consistently through all game, strong gank support with 2 gap closers and a stun, safe farming, and relatively low mana costs that allow her to stay in lane for a long time.
So her late-game scaling is ok? I assumed her lategame would be pretty lacking because of her lack of CC and a real escape. And how do you build her, AP-bruiser with tank items mixed like FH, Mogs or just full AP? I saw some Korean top laner in OGN go with something that seemed like a full tank build (Sorc boots, Mogs, Shurelias and some dorans shields i think). Is there one outstanding build, or is it all situational?
|
On January 09 2013 05:39 Immortall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 05:32 Requizen wrote:On January 09 2013 05:27 Immortall wrote:
Okay so i have 7000 IP to spend and i really want to buy elise however i don't really know... what defines her? What defines het from other (top) lane bullies like for example jayce, nida, shen? Because she looks so cool but i almost exclusively play bullies on top lane so i think i should buy something else if she is just like the others i mentioned before. Thanks! She's similar to Jayce or Nid, not so much Shen at all. She has strong ranged harass, but low clearing/pushing power. She has some sustain, but needs to switch to melee form to use it. She lacks really any escape aside from Stun and a minor speed boost in Spider form. Her strength lies in high damage consistently through all game, strong gank support with 2 gap closers and a stun, safe farming, and relatively low mana costs that allow her to stay in lane for a long time. So her late-game scaling is ok? I assumed her lategame would be pretty lacking because of her lack of CC and a real escape. And how do you build her, AP-bruiser with tank items mixed like FH, Mogs or just full AP? I saw some Korean top laner in OGN go with something that seemed like a full tank build (Sorc boots, Mogs, Shurelias and some dorans shields i think). Is there one outstanding build, or is it all situational?
This thread is pretty new and short, just read the last couple pages. MPen is best on her offensively, since %health stays relevant through the game and you just need to worry about them building MR against you. And if they're not building MR, she can build tanky and still do a lot of damage and have good utility through her stun for engages/stopping dives.
|
To me Elise just begs for some sort of banner of command rush pusher comp. Although her wave clear speed is not that remarkable (although once you get used to it you can split push with your creep wave never needing to slow down), she makes for a strong tower pusher (free spammable minions to take shots) and a deadly assassin. Spam your caster abilities, spider form jump, spam abilities, rappel to chase or pull out before the inevitable burst. Toughest part is her caster form feels sluggish and the range is on the shortish side.
|
On January 09 2013 05:45 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 05:39 Immortall wrote:On January 09 2013 05:32 Requizen wrote:On January 09 2013 05:27 Immortall wrote:
Okay so i have 7000 IP to spend and i really want to buy elise however i don't really know... what defines her? What defines het from other (top) lane bullies like for example jayce, nida, shen? Because she looks so cool but i almost exclusively play bullies on top lane so i think i should buy something else if she is just like the others i mentioned before. Thanks! She's similar to Jayce or Nid, not so much Shen at all. She has strong ranged harass, but low clearing/pushing power. She has some sustain, but needs to switch to melee form to use it. She lacks really any escape aside from Stun and a minor speed boost in Spider form. Her strength lies in high damage consistently through all game, strong gank support with 2 gap closers and a stun, safe farming, and relatively low mana costs that allow her to stay in lane for a long time. So her late-game scaling is ok? I assumed her lategame would be pretty lacking because of her lack of CC and a real escape. And how do you build her, AP-bruiser with tank items mixed like FH, Mogs or just full AP? I saw some Korean top laner in OGN go with something that seemed like a full tank build (Sorc boots, Mogs, Shurelias and some dorans shields i think). Is there one outstanding build, or is it all situational? This thread is pretty new and short, just read the last couple pages. MPen is best on her offensively, since %health stays relevant through the game and you just need to worry about them building MR against you. And if they're not building MR, she can build tanky and still do a lot of damage and have good utility through her stun for engages/stopping dives.
Okay, thanks a lot! I'll see if i buy her.
|
On January 09 2013 05:47 Sc2eleazar wrote:
To me Elise just begs for some sort of banner of command rush pusher comp. Although her wave clear speed is not that remarkable (although once you get used to it you can split push with your creep wave never needing to slow down), she makes for a strong tower pusher (free spammable minions to take shots) and a deadly assassin. Spam your caster abilities, spider form jump, spam abilities, rappel to chase or pull out before the inevitable burst. Toughest part is her caster form feels sluggish and the range is on the shortish side.
problem with this is that elise is still squishy and she doesn't have good escapes. she has good pursue but not good escapes, which makes a huge difference.
without tankiness you won't last long enough for the extra AD from spiderlings and the 30 armor from banner of command is not good enough. spiderlings + spider-form W clears towers pretty fast already, anything more seems like overkill.
if you want to split push you definitely need shurelya's.
|
I don't really see the love of Rylai's on Elise. I get that there's the synergy with Liandry's, but you can often rely on your stun for that. If you want to get tanky, why not get things like Glacial/FH (CDR is amazing with her utility and high base damages) and Abyssal (more mpen)? I often even find myself just going Liandry's -> Void if I'm not hardcore getting focused.
|
There's also a desire to be tanky (HP) and her Q (both forms) works extremely well with Rylais, even ignoring Liandry. In caster form it makes the Q poke that much scarier, makes it easy to follow up with E and have them be too slow to dodge it at a mid range
In spider form Rylai lets you stick to them better after you Q onto them because they're slowed, allowing you can get the full benefit of W and spiderling attacks, saving Rappel for if/when they flash away or to dodge enemy abilities.
|
does anyone know how koreans run support elise?
Im not sure if they go tanky or normal support runes and masteries and im also not sure of i should max the spider for bushcontrol or Q for harass.
|
On January 14 2013 22:02 LaNague wrote:
does anyone know how koreans run support elise?
Im not sure if they go tanky or normal support runes and masteries and im also not sure of i should max the spider for bushcontrol or Q for harass.
I'm like 95% sure they don't go tanky on their support elises, because they mostly play human form, so they don't need to get up close to do things.
|
I am tempted to pick up elise for supporting, too, and would be interested in how that works.
The most plausible thing without having played her would be max q, go for my offensive poking support masteries and runes, and build the more tanky support things like locket. Depending on mana needs i might get a chalice.
Maxing W does sound significantly worse then Q. W scales for 50 damage, Q for 45. I would be very surprised if you could hit W more often then Q, plus it has a 12 second CD compared to the 6 of Q.
However, all of this is purely theoretic, and i would be glad for any insight of people who have already played her on what they think works best.
|
On January 12 2013 03:53 Requizen wrote:
I don't really see the love of Rylai's on Elise. I get that there's the synergy with Liandry's, but you can often rely on your stun for that. If you want to get tanky, why not get things like Glacial/FH (CDR is amazing with her utility and high base damages) and Abyssal (more mpen)? I often even find myself just going Liandry's -> Void if I'm not hardcore getting focused.
The amount of damage you get out of being able to stick to someone for the entire duration of spiderW is immense. In a full combo at medium or long stun range your stun wears off at about the same time you get close enough to spider Q onto them. Its all about the slow, the tank stats and ap are just really delicious icing. Its also really really strong in shutting down retaliation from tops without good gap closers, and it serves as an escape method which elise really needs.
|
when i tried support elise i went ruby sightstone > phil stone > sorc shoes > locket > guise
even just with shoes and guise you still do a good chunk of damage in the mid-late game and when the ad carry has to worry about dying to the support you know they're in trouble... although ideally in teamfights you just sit back in human form and spam Qs, stun for your carry, and burst down any divers.
|
Disclaimer: I don't own Elise and I've only played her a few times when she was free.
Just a few questions to Elise players: With pen rush being the general optimal build, what is your opinion on getting Sunfire ala tanky Kat/Pen Malphite. I am seeing debate over Rylais and Warmogs as a GBelt item, but nothing about Sunfire.
And more for fun: If you pink someplace where the enemy has a ward, can you then rappel to that ward? Not entirely practical, but I'm curious.
Edit: Grammar
|
On January 15 2013 05:59 Lounge wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't own Elise and I've only played her a few times when she was free.
Just a few questions to Elise players: With pen rush being the general optimal build, what is your opinion on getting Sunfire ala tanky Kat/Pen Malphite. I am seeing debate over Rylais and Warmogs as a GBelt item, but nothing about Sunfire.
And more for fun: If you pink someplace where the enemy has a ward, can you then rappel to that ward? Not entirely practical, but I'm curious.
Edit: Grammar
You can rappel to enemy wards if visible.
I think tanky elise is dumb unless you are way far ahead so I can't comment on that. I just hate building tanky period in solo.
|
Rappel doesn't reveal stealth, but if you can already see the ward you can Rappel to it.
I build Elise (jungle) Guise -> Sorcs -> Warmogs/Sunfire first, starting boots3 (but considering starting ruby crystal or amp+pot to get guise faster, don't really need boots either)
Also for support elise rush sheen for Q+auto rape? huehehue
|
Surprised she isn't nerfed one bit with the second preseason patch. She is so damn strong right now.
|
On January 16 2013 20:30 ReachTheSky wrote:
Surprised she isn't nerfed one bit with the second preseason patch. She is so damn strong right now.
I don't know, maybe she's difficult? I bought her recently and I continue to do pretty awful after a dozen games or so. She's squishy and you don't have super awesome escapes like rengar or khazix.
Maybe she's not difficult and I'm just a moron, who knows.
|
She's not as difficult to play as some other champions, but compared to the other "form" champions (Jayce and Nid), she feels a lot more squishy prior to items and not nearly as mobile unless you have a good Rappel target.
She's likely not nerfed because she's only at a 50% win rate at about 9% picked, which isn't high enough to warrant the nerfbat in Riot's eyes. Once she hits ~12% pick and ~58% win ratio, we'll doubtless see a nerf or two.
|
On January 16 2013 22:25 mockturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 20:30 ReachTheSky wrote:
Surprised she isn't nerfed one bit with the second preseason patch. She is so damn strong right now. I don't know, maybe she's difficult? I bought her recently and I continue to do pretty awful after a dozen games or so. She's squishy and you don't have super awesome escapes like rengar or khazix. Maybe she's not difficult and I'm just a moron, who knows.
the damn problem is her neurotoxin.
I can get a giants belt or equivalent defense item and still do a fuck ton of dmg like a jackass. Hell its not even a skillshot which i was surprised when I found out...
she just has so much burst potential...who, again we have experienced and hate, can build really fucking tanky like pre-nerf nocturne
|
On January 17 2013 00:26 heroyi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 22:25 mockturtle wrote:On January 16 2013 20:30 ReachTheSky wrote:
Surprised she isn't nerfed one bit with the second preseason patch. She is so damn strong right now. I don't know, maybe she's difficult? I bought her recently and I continue to do pretty awful after a dozen games or so. She's squishy and you don't have super awesome escapes like rengar or khazix. Maybe she's not difficult and I'm just a moron, who knows. the damn problem is her neurotoxin. I can get a giants belt or equivalent defense item and still do a fuck ton of dmg like a jackass. Hell its not even a skillshot which i was surprised when I found out... she just has so much burst potential...who, again we have experienced and hate, can build really fucking tanky like pre-nerf nocturne
She wouldn't do so much damage if every top laner didn't think they needed to be like pros and only stack health. Just buy a negatron or something
|
On January 17 2013 15:40 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 00:26 heroyi wrote:On January 16 2013 22:25 mockturtle wrote:On January 16 2013 20:30 ReachTheSky wrote:
Surprised she isn't nerfed one bit with the second preseason patch. She is so damn strong right now. I don't know, maybe she's difficult? I bought her recently and I continue to do pretty awful after a dozen games or so. She's squishy and you don't have super awesome escapes like rengar or khazix. Maybe she's not difficult and I'm just a moron, who knows. the damn problem is her neurotoxin. I can get a giants belt or equivalent defense item and still do a fuck ton of dmg like a jackass. Hell its not even a skillshot which i was surprised when I found out... she just has so much burst potential...who, again we have experienced and hate, can build really fucking tanky like pre-nerf nocturne She wouldn't do so much damage if every top laner didn't think they needed to be like pros and only stack health. Just buy a negatron or something
Pretty much. I think mr is better when your opponent is stacking mpen which everyone does on Elise.
|
I always start Sorcs & Guise for the Mpen. Giants belt next and depending on how I'm doing I'll go for Rylais if I'm ahead or Warmogs if I'm behind. Elise must build tanky or her spider form becomes near useless in fights. Rylais Liandrys synergy is just too good on elise, especially on a Mpen build where you're not building any AP.
9-21-0 with all the health stacking masteries makes anyone fairly tanky with just a warmogs. Plus elise can rappel to break aggro and allow that massive regen to kick in. Warmogs also has good synergy with the extra HP from rylais and guise which just makes the entire build fit together nicely.
My standard elise build: Sorcs, Liandrys, Rylais, Warmogs.
Best way to counter elise was already mentioned, buy MR. Elise Q wreaks low MR champs. Nothing pains me more than killing darius only to have him come back into lane with a negatron because you cant kill him and forces you to play safe and farm.
|
Elise is my new favorite "FB the first time, every time" jungler. Her level 2/3 ganks are terrifying.
|
On January 18 2013 06:00 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 15:40 MattBarry wrote:On January 17 2013 00:26 heroyi wrote:On January 16 2013 22:25 mockturtle wrote:On January 16 2013 20:30 ReachTheSky wrote:
Surprised she isn't nerfed one bit with the second preseason patch. She is so damn strong right now. I don't know, maybe she's difficult? I bought her recently and I continue to do pretty awful after a dozen games or so. She's squishy and you don't have super awesome escapes like rengar or khazix. Maybe she's not difficult and I'm just a moron, who knows. the damn problem is her neurotoxin. I can get a giants belt or equivalent defense item and still do a fuck ton of dmg like a jackass. Hell its not even a skillshot which i was surprised when I found out... she just has so much burst potential...who, again we have experienced and hate, can build really fucking tanky like pre-nerf nocturne She wouldn't do so much damage if every top laner didn't think they needed to be like pros and only stack health. Just buy a negatron or something Pretty much. I think mr is better when your opponent is stacking mpen which everyone does on Elise.
MR isn't better against Elise specifically because Elise stacks mpen, it's better because Elise's primary ranged nuke scales with your HP (%hp damage) and her AP scaling on it is really bad.
True, unlike other APs she doesn't have much of a viable choice between mpen and straight AP if she wants to increase damage. But it's the %hp aspect of her low-cooldown point-and-click Q that makes it particularly inefficient for you to stack health.
|
does any1 has tips for elise sp? only won 1 game with her and shes damn paper during engage and i keep dying ni the end.
|
On February 10 2013 00:31 justiceknight wrote:
does any1 has tips for elise sp? only won 1 game with her and shes damn paper during engage and i keep dying ni the end.
Well other than basic teamfight positioning which really just comes from experience, you really can build as tanky as you need to be on elise.
If your team is doing alright on damage and you feel like you need to just tank it up then just pile on the warmogs and shit after sorcs and guise, you'll still do fine damage.
I often play elise as peel in many teamfights, just sit back near your AD, poke everyone from human, then stun and full combo anyone who tries to dive. This keeps you safe in the back lines, and combined with your AD and your %health+ burst you can level pretty much anyone. Then when they are dead and your combo is back you can rappel after their squishy.
If you need damage and survival and you are getting focused then grab zhonyas. You can dive in and combo while saving rappel, then zhonyas when they switch to you, then rappel and look for a good escape route or just hang out up there. you are untagetable for a combined 4.5 seconds, which is way too long for people to wait for you without your team ruining them.
|
Any advice on the Elise vs Vlad match up ? I had a game against him and the lane phase was a pain, he'll start pots + wards and outsustain you so hard, every time you Q he'll Q you too and win the trade, besides you'll run out of mana really fast.
Do you have to play agressive and all in him in spiderform ?
|
i'd say that for sure you can't beat him by trading, he's manaless and now Q costs so much on elise, so he'll just eventually out trade you, also he can farm better than you, my guess is all in him when he has no pool or it is on CD so you can try to burst him down maybe with the help of a gank, using all your 6 abilities starting with a stun.. When he gets some items if the lane has gone atleast even you can't expect to burst him you gotta aim to gank other lanes or create and early team fight and get kills on squishies, otherwise he becomes too big..
|
It should be a farm lane. Only done it once, I think, but the ideas are pretty simple. If you try to extended trade on him, he'll always win because of his sustain and your mana. You can't bully him out like you can with melee champs, but at the same time Vlad isn't really a big threat until he gets level ~9 (the approximate time he gets Revolver and enough QE levels to push with impunity), and even then he shouldn't be an issue as far as killing you.
On the upside, you have much better gank assist than he does. The best he can hope to do is slow you with Pool (which you really shouldn't get hit with), or with a Rylai Q (which takes time to get). On the other hand, your Stun is on a shorter CD than his Pool at all times (unless he has a lot of CDR and you have none), so if you can force him to use pool, he's easily gankable.
There's a couple ways to play it, I think. Early on, he can't push hard with E without tanking his health, so you can try to turn it into a shove lane with Spider Form Q and W (which is manaless and has pretty good sustain), and Human W (lots of mana, but pretty good pushing power). If he uses E a bunch to push, he'll be pretty low, so you can try to all-in him when he hits about half if he doesn't have pool.
Both of you should be able to farm under tower easily, and both of you are pretty good late game (different reasons, he works better as a pusher and in AoE comps, you have better poke and single target killing power), so just try to get what advantage you have without trying to trade. I personally think I'd try to push hard when I hit 4, then roam to mid or their jungle with your team while he's trying to defend his tower. If he follows, he'll be fairly low, and doesn't bring much to teamfighting until 6.
|
Bumping the thread because whiel I have played Elise top, I don't really understand how to play her properly and what she accomplishes from the support role. What should I try to be doing? What if I'm not stomping my lane? What if I am? Dafuq do I build? (I see people go like Sightstone -> Haunting Guise+sorc?)
On January 16 2013 15:12 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Rappel doesn't reveal stealth, but if you can already see the ward you can Rappel to it.
I build Elise (jungle) Guise -> Sorcs -> Warmogs/Sunfire first, starting boots3 (but considering starting ruby crystal or amp+pot to get guise faster, don't really need boots either)
Also for support elise rush sheen for Q+auto rape? huehehue
Doesn't have a ruby crystal in it. Haunting guise if you want an offensive item on support elise would make the most sense to me. It's clearly a support item because it builds out of a ruby crystal like all good support items.
Still not sure how to approach support elise as far as mindset goes. The allin where you rappel QW switch form pointblankEstun QW is quite strong from the support position though. But harassing against like a Sona or any other sustain feels like I just go OOM instantly.
|
Okay guys, can you give me some opinions on whether you should go vamp or flat ap for jungle Elise? I've seen both.
|
On May 04 2013 07:59 EquilasH wrote:
Okay guys, can you give me some opinions on whether you should go vamp or flat ap for jungle Elise? I've seen both.
Vamp seems unneccesary, especially if you plan on going APstone. I've always run AP. checking probuilds.net and they all go flat AP or movespeed.
|
Hey Elise players, is it true that you can't really do much against Jayce? I'm trying to figure out counterpicks to this insane champion.
|
On May 05 2013 04:23 TheLastRaven wrote:
Hey Elise players, is it true that you can't really do much against Jayce? I'm trying to figure out counterpicks to this insane champion.
I'm not sure how the matchup goes, but you should probably ask in the Jayce thread for counterplay/picks against him.
|
On May 05 2013 05:25 LazyFailKid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 04:23 TheLastRaven wrote:
Hey Elise players, is it true that you can't really do much against Jayce? I'm trying to figure out counterpicks to this insane champion. I'm not sure how the matchup goes, but you should probably ask in the Jayce thread for counterplay/picks against him.
Oh no, I was referring to Elise as the insane champion.
|
On May 05 2013 07:23 TheLastRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2013 05:25 LazyFailKid wrote:On May 05 2013 04:23 TheLastRaven wrote:
Hey Elise players, is it true that you can't really do much against Jayce? I'm trying to figure out counterpicks to this insane champion. I'm not sure how the matchup goes, but you should probably ask in the Jayce thread for counterplay/picks against him. Oh no, I was referring to Elise as the insane champion.
People seem to think that Jayce can autokill elise, and I agree that he can win lane but I think it would come down to skill more than most people give it credit for, skill meaning when to trade and how much mana you can afford to use etc...
yorick would also be good i guess, the classic top lane prick. Ghouls run interference on the jihad spiders pretty well.
|
So how are you supposed to play against Elise in top lane as say Jax.
I feel like I can go even with Elise as Jayce maybe during laning due to the fact they are both transformers, but not as Jax. I'd feel bad if someone picked Elise after I picked Jax.
If I jump on her I get stunned and lose the trade pre 6. And I'm not sure about the outcome post 6 either.
I imagine it'd go, her Q, my Q, my auto, her stun, her explosive spider, and her getting away from me. From there she's won the trade due to minions and more damage than me.
If I used E, then Q, E for the stun immediately, she could still win with her human rotation followed by the spider form rotation due to her doing more damage with my E down. And as soon as I've lost lane control she can just spam Q and W on me while I'm under tower with her low mana costs.
I imagine I'd just have to get TP to deal with harass, assert some good lane/brush control so I don't get harassed to shit at low levels, and then hope for the best mid game with ganks and teamfights or Elise misplays or that I get carried by my team.
|
Why isn't elise seen mid anymore? Is it because she's just better against most top lane champs then mid, or is mid elise simply less explored then top/support?
I'm kind of thinking she'd be really good at roaming due to her amazing ganking potential with 2 gapclosers (Q a minor one, E a big one), and a stun. She's also exceptional at bursting squishies, and as mid she still allows the top lane to build quite tanky if the team comp requires.
|
i think its because most mid laners try to shove then take wraiths or roam where as top laners dont like to push them to turret, and elise seems like she cant push back very well.
|
On May 26 2013 16:57 Sajaki wrote:
Why isn't elise seen mid anymore? Is it because she's just better against most top lane champs then mid, or is mid elise simply less explored then top/support?
I think it's mostly due to the fact you want to max q first for trades, but she needs to level volatile spider if she wants to clear quickly. So you have to sacrifice wave clear for trading, thus people will just shove the lane all day long and roam, because it is mid. Also volatile spider is somewhat unreliable and tends to not go exactly where you want it to at times.
I really love playing Elise jungle. I hate playing her as a top, but she's a lot of fun when you can roam around and land her full combo on some unsuspecting sap. She's absurd when she's part of a poke team (provided you can land stuns).
|
On May 29 2013 22:20 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2013 16:57 Sajaki wrote:
Why isn't elise seen mid anymore? Is it because she's just better against most top lane champs then mid, or is mid elise simply less explored then top/support? I think it's mostly due to the fact you want to max q first for trades, but she needs to level volatile spider if she wants to clear quickly. So you have to sacrifice wave clear for trading, thus people will just shove the lane all day long and roam, because it is mid. Also volatile spider is somewhat unreliable and tends to not go exactly where you want it to at times. I really love playing Elise jungle. I hate playing her as a top, but she's a lot of fun when you can roam around and land her full combo on some unsuspecting sap. She's absurd when she's part of a poke team (provided you can land stuns).
I'm not the biggest fan of her in the jungle. Don't get me wrong, her jungle clearing (and safety while doing so), objective control, and ganks are all really good, but she isn't all that tanky going into the lategame, especially after the nerfs. She falls off quite badly without items (even with items her lategame isn't great) and if you have to invest in aura items/locket your damage will be lower still...
That's why I'm trying to combine her roaming potential with a solo lane. If you max W first, the spiderling will jump to the target of Spider's Q if close enough... perhaps i can make this a good trading combo, I need to test this. I REALLY want to play this champion mid.
|
I suspect that even when she maxes w first, her wave clear will be quite poor. The problem is volatile spider's cooldown is relatively long, so if you don't instaclear the wave you're not that much better off. I suppose that's the real issue- it's really difficult to clear anything in human form and you have to use spider form to clear. Clearing with spider form is never going to be that fast.
|
I play Elise as Jungler and Top laner (when i see a melee top who likes to stack hp, Jax is a particularly favourite counter to play against). I prefer to jungle her as I feel I can carry games pretty hard as well as excellent buff/objective control with spiderlings tanking dmg. Elise can also duel any jungler in their or her own jungle if about even in levels.
Jungle is 9/21/0 due to lack of mr/ar scaling overall and on R.
magic pen reds
armor yellows
scaling mr blues
Attk speed or MS Quints
W-Q-E then prioritize Q. Go gank.
W cd is just wayy too long you don't end up using more than once per camp.
Let her spiderlings tank as much as possible by kiting back after a Spiderform Q, the spiderlings will jump forward and immediately draw aggro from camp.
After being frustrated with being fed but unable to carry from the Jungle with junglers like Lee, J4 or Noc I went with Elise and am grinding her in games hard. If u get your items you are monsterous till late late game.
Jungle AP item + sorc boots + rylais really does nice dmg. When you are forced to go tanky with Locket, Bulwark, and other items you really feel ineffective dmg wise and you kind of bait yourself into thinking you can still kill ppl but just get baited yourself.
Elise does kinda bad against heavy ap teams. Since you don't get mr/ar scaling even with bulwark and scaling mr blues I barely crack 120 MR with Bulwark + Negatron mid-late game. Since she has short range for both her Q's long range ap dmg or silences really, really hurts and also messes up your combos.
Elise really shines with a team that already has a tanky hard initation. She really does not want to be the first in the fight, although as a jungler that will often happen. Elise kind of does best peeling for an adc while poking and looking for an assasination of a low hp target in spider form (EQ). Elise cleans up teamfights absurdly well with rappel and venomous bite if you are patient about when you go in.
Top Elise is fun too, you need to build tankier to trade but you do very consistent burst dmg and benefit hugely from lvls. Her human form auto attack though  such an awkward animation to get used to.
Elise is so much fun. 
|
I'm wondering what items people are building on jungle elise.
I've tried the following the last 5-6 games with good success:
machete + 5pot ->
spirit stone + boots ->
SotSW + tabi/sorc ->
wit's end ->
aegis/bulwark
Really want to add in haunting guise, but I feel it delays aegis too much. The new wit's end is really good on her, gives her tank stats, on-hit damage, and more flat MR reduction.
late-game items are abyssal/frozen heart/rylai's/liandry's depending on what your team needs
|
I generally go spirit of the spectral wraith, haunting guise, seeker's armguard, Liandry's, Zhonya's. After that it depends a lot, bulwark, sometimes Abyssal's or Rylai's. I don't think the game ever gets to a point where I can get a full 6 items. :>
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Im not that big of a fan of Zhonyas, it seems most useful for champions who need to wait a few seconds for cooldowns and someone who dives deep into the enemy lines, I don't think Elise is either. Her autoattack is pretty beast because of spinderling but they don't do anything when you zhonyas IIRC. Same for Rylais, doesn't seem that useful because you really shouldn't be diving onto people due to lack of good CC while in spider form and no innate survivability skills apart from spider E. I approve of Spectral Wrath and Haunting Guise though, best items to stack up your dmg probably.
|
So you are basically skirting at the edge of the fight throwing w's around, and then finish singled out people once the chaos starts?
|
Usually go
Machete ->Boots -> Spirit of Spectral Wraith -> Locket/Bulwark/Whatever
|
Zhonya's is mostly because Seeker's is so cost effective and you need to get a least one armor heavy item. I feel like once you get spectral wraith, haunting guise, and armguard you're quite strong. I agree the active isn't too terribly useful (though there are exceptions).
|
I've been building tanky Elise in the jungle and getting dps items (guise) only if I get a few early kills. I feel I contribute more to the team that way by being a durable magnet in team fights. Spirit of the Ancient Golem is also a very nice item all around.
Then again, I am a lowly KR silver player, so maybe I'm not playing optimally. I do know this kind of build is very popular in Korea, though.
|
On June 26 2013 10:41 Scip wrote:
Im not that big of a fan of Zhonyas, it seems most useful for champions who need to wait a few seconds for cooldowns and someone who dives deep into the enemy lines, I don't think Elise is either. Her autoattack is pretty beast because of spinderling but they don't do anything when you zhonyas IIRC. Same for Rylais, doesn't seem that useful because you really shouldn't be diving onto people due to lack of good CC while in spider form and no innate survivability skills apart from spider E. I approve of Spectral Wrath and Haunting Guise though, best items to stack up your dmg probably.
You need to dive in spider form if you want to play elise effectively.If you are only using human form in fights you are wasting her potential spider form damage.Remember she is tanky ap carry.
I think rylais and liandras are core for elise because of tankyness they gave you and good damage boost.I also enjoy rushing spirit of spectral wraiths if I am toplane nowadays.It gives you cheap mana regeneration and spell vamp for complete lane domination.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
I don't want to comment on solo lane Elise, but for jungle Elise, you are nowhere near tanky enough to dive people unless you have a massive Wombo Combo to go with; in which case you would probably be better served by a different jungler.
As Simberto said, mostly skirt around the edge throwing spells and once I have cooldowns I can jump in on a bruiser who should be moderately exposed. Elise got some sick deeps but it's next to impossible to apply them to the enemy carry. I mean if there's an opportunity to seriously apply those deeps to enemy AD carry in a way that wouldnt get you killed super fast then go for it, but it's not very likely to happen.
|
On June 26 2013 20:40 Scip wrote:
I don't want to comment on solo lane Elise, but for jungle Elise, you are nowhere near tanky enough to dive people unless you have a massive Wombo Combo to go with; in which case you would probably be better served by a different jungler.
As Simberto said, mostly skirt around the edge throwing spells and once I have cooldowns I can jump in on a bruiser who should be moderately exposed. Elise got some sick deeps but it's next to impossible to apply them to the enemy carry. I mean if there's an opportunity to seriously apply those deeps to enemy AD carry in a way that wouldnt get you killed super fast then go for it, but it's not very likely to happen.
Tbh even after you get items you dont feel tanky enough to do much imo.
I mean hoodie gives good sustain via the spell vamp, but even building straight tank after it doesnt seem like you can really take many hits. and diving an adc is suicide if they arent massively behind
|
Problem I have with jungle elise is that you never get tanky enough to go balls deep on a carry and survive, but on the other hand prioritising dps isn't really all that good on her either because her dps core items (rylai/liandry/zhonya/abyssal) all have "wasted" survivability stats, and there's the fact that you can't really achieve that level of farm from the jungle or by taxing the lane since you can't instaclear.
|
I'm still building Elise sorcs -> warmog -> liandry/sunfire/aegis depending (from the jungle)
|
On June 27 2013 10:07 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I'm still building Elise sorcs -> warmog -> liandry/sunfire/aegis depending (from the jungle)
I actually prefer this build to any spirit of the spectral item. It seems so weak -_-
|
Spirit of the spectral wraith gives you a lot of extra health from the spell vamp if you're not getting blown up instantly. And it helps maintain really strong dragon control with the damage bonus against monsters and the spell vamp.I think half of what makes Elise so strong as a jungler is her ability to take dragons extremely quickly, and there are many more situations you can do that with spirit of spectral wraith.
I don't really get Warmogs as a second item. Elise's strength as a jungler lies in her strong gank potential and dragon control, and Warmogs doesn't really help with either. If you get a guise before the mogs, that would make a lot more sense to me.
|
On June 27 2013 12:49 zer0das wrote:
Spirit of the spectral wraith gives you a lot of extra health from the spell vamp if you're not getting blown up instantly. And it helps maintain really strong dragon control with the damage bonus against monsters and the spell vamp.I think half of what makes Elise so strong as a jungler is her ability to take dragons extremely quickly, and there are many more situations you can do that with spirit of spectral wraith.
I don't really get Warmogs as a second item. Elise's strength as a jungler lies in her strong gank potential and dragon control, and Warmogs doesn't really help with either. If you get a guise before the mogs, that would make a lot more sense to me.
Yeah, I meant guise then sorcs, my bad 
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 27 2013 10:07 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I'm still building Elise sorcs -> warmog -> liandry/sunfire/aegis depending (from the jungle)
why?
|
On June 27 2013 13:38 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 10:07 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I'm still building Elise sorcs -> warmog -> liandry/sunfire/aegis depending (from the jungle) why?
Because I do well with it?
edit: for a bit more of a civil response, it's what I remember from OGN Winter and I hadn't played since January so I was just going with that It still seems to work
|
United States23745 Posts
So what's the general combo for clearing a camp as Elise? Do I just spam everything I have? Or clear primary in Spider form to conserve mana?
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Either come in human form, autoattack once+W, then spiderform, Q, W, autoattack creeps to death OR
Rappel into the creep camp, Q, W, autoattack them low enough to die to your human W, then switch to human form and W.
This is if you're maxing W in the jungle, which I think you should.
|
United States23745 Posts
I was maxing W but was getting pretty fed and switched over to Q for better gank damage. Is W just for clear speed then? I figure maxing your execute would be wise.
|
I like to put two points in W then max Q. Leaving Q at level 1 during the laning phase makes your ganks much less scary.
|
I don't think maxing w first in the jungle makes much sense. Q makes her clear much faster because of how much it shreds the the stronger monsters (blue and red in particular), and it also make her ganks much better, not to mention objective control. I was initially under the impression that you should max w first when I first tried jungle Elise, and I thought it was absolutely horrible and wondered why anyone would jungle her. Then I read some guides, tried maxing Q first, and never really looked back.
If I have blue buff, I generally, start in human form, launch her w a distance away, q the big monster (which should hit first due to the travel time of her w), then switch to spider form, w and attack for a bit, then q the big monster again for a fairly large execute. Then just stay in spider form and q/w until everything is cleared (shouldn't take long). I generally don't rappel onto camps, because you can never be entirely sure when you'll need it (although if stuff is well warded, I would do it more). If I don't have blue buff, I usually just skip the initial q in human form (not always- depends on how fast I want to clear).
|
I dont advise maxing W over Q.Both spider and human Q s are awesome in ganks and teamfight and decent against creeps.You can still jungle pretty good without maxing W.I dont think it is worth to sacrifice that much damage for clearing speed.
|
how is Elise support? Do you guys recommend/ not recommend? What to build?
|
On July 06 2013 14:01 GhostOwl wrote:
how is Elise support? Do you guys recommend/ not recommend? What to build?
She is a lane bully, but you'll probably be less usefull than most supports late game, as you only have one cc.
You'd build her like normal support, but throw in spell pen boots and haunting guise for some damage
|
Why even consider Warmog's when there's Spirit of the Ancient Golem?
|
On July 06 2013 19:13 OmegaKnetus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2013 14:01 GhostOwl wrote:
how is Elise support? Do you guys recommend/ not recommend? What to build? She is a lane bully, but you'll probably be less usefull than most supports late game, as you only have one cc. You'd build her like normal support, but throw in spell pen boots and haunting guise for some damage
You can also throw in a morellonomicon, I like to get it after locket. Its 75 relatively cheap AP, provides 20% cdr which lets you spam cocoon more, and just makes it so you feel like you fall off less. Lately I've swapped her out in favor of sona/thresh, but as long as you actually bully the lane, I think she's midlevel supportwise. If you dont get anything done in lane though, most other supports will just provide so much more than you can come late game.
|
Is ancient golem any good on Elise? I have been just going spirt stone-boots1-haunt guise- mpen boots- for the strong gank but I do notice my clear speed is slow compared to some of my other junglers
|
Ancient golem is standard on Elise (assuming you're not fed) and just about any non-wriggle jungler. It gives you some tankiness, and decide if you want sorc/haunting after or something like aegis. It's never a bad pickup, and her clear speed is fine.
|
I wouldn't say ancient golem is standard but it is pretty common. Personally I get way more mileage out of spirit of the spectral wraith, but there are certainly situations ancient golem is better. I probably go 80% spectral wraith/20% ancient golem. LCS junglers tend to favor spirit of the ancient golem, which makes a lot of sense in a competitive 5s game where the enemy team has very good coordination. From what I've seen, people split pretty evenly between the two in solo que.
|
Another cute thing about SOTSW is that smite heals you for 100-200 health (based on your level) I can really see how that can end up totaling up to get you 500 health even in a pretty short period of time with your 2 Q's also vamping really well.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
I really really don't like Spectral Wraith on Elise, after the nerfs it is hardly even cost effective let alone worth it. Getting Haunting Guise instead and/or other damage items is probably way better. Ancient Golem is the best choice once you decide you have enough damage (like Haunting Guise+Sorcs) and need to go pure tank now.
|
There was like one patch (12 days) where it had 50 ability power and the cost was reduced to what it is now. It's only lost 10 ability power and gained the reduced smite cooldown (and +5% damage vs monsters, but so did spirit of the ancient golem), so its cost effectiveness has not changed substantially since its inception. Unless you're referring to the nerfs to Elise making the spell vamp less valuable?
Both spectral wraith and ancient golem are very cost effective, so I think it is a little silly to say it is "hardly even worth the cost." If you don't think you can get the maximum benefit given the cost, that's a different story. Obviously if you're getting cced and explode instantly it's not worth a whole lot.
I do understand your perspective though, I often feel like I get away with a lot of crap with spectral wraith that I probably shouldn't be simply because teams at my level are terrible at dealing with threats like Elise appropriately. I've been incorporating ancient golem into my builds more often, and the results have been pretty positive. My gut feeling is that in general, spectral wraith is better against disorganized, lower level teams and ancient golem is better against more coordinated teams. Although that's completing ignoring team comps and a bunch of other stuff.
Also, I've been building Zhonya's a lot less after you said you disliked it, and I agree with you on that point now, although I still think there's a small niche for it.
|
I'm still running 14 mpen on elise jungle with armor and mr seals/glyphs, but someone told me that lifesteal quints would let me start with dblade
i started with dblade just running spen page and didnt really get low, but i can see the logic, is this common these days?
|
there was some mathcraft done and mpen is way too good on her to get anything else i think
|
Are MPen Quints (which don't help your clear) really that much better than AP Quints? I know that Q benefits better from them, but W/spider autos/spiderlings have pretty good damage from AP...
|
On July 19 2013 21:03 sylverfyre wrote:
Are MPen Quints (which don't help your clear) really that much better than AP Quints? I know that Q benefits better from them, but W/spider autos/spiderlings have pretty good damage from AP...
I've played a lot of jungle Elise over the last few days and I don't really think you need aggressive quints on her for a fast and safe jungle clear. I use hybrid reds and CDR quints (to gain a fairly high CDR fast for better chase and escape), by just let spiderlings tank creeps I can clear the jungle fairly fast and still have quite a few potions to spare.
I always go for Golem stone so I can use Sorc boots. :-)
|
Hey if you're up against Elise as Jax, do you get a more magic resist oriented build then get 3 null magic mantles into hexdrinker or do you just do a normal build?
A normal build gives more lifesteal for when Elise leaves lane and is stronger earlier due to better build paths but the MR build would help against all that free harass.
Also do you change summoners?
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
I always get destroyed by elise as jax
what I've been doing is my standard double dorans blade and then into like double null magic for hexdrinker, but it's super difficult to allin her because she just rappels as soon as you use your stun... Don't think there is any build that will win you the lane, but this one allows you to stay in at least for a little bit.
|
But honestly, what wins against Elise ? I don't know a single champ that does.
|
I really don't think u can win lane with jax vs Elise without alot of early jungle help. I gave up first blood to a jax after the fourth or fifth pre6 gank from a jarvan finally got me and still finished 25 cs up with 3 kills. The jax went dorans 2 null mantle into hexdrinker and vamp scepter but I could poke more then he could sustain and was just a matter of time before I was able to stun and combo for a few easy kills
|
On July 19 2013 21:03 sylverfyre wrote:
Are MPen Quints (which don't help your clear) really that much better than AP Quints? I know that Q benefits better from them, but W/spider autos/spiderlings have pretty good damage from AP...
the answer is yes mpen beats ap on her in like almost all situations
ill try to find the webpage that figured this out
|
vlad beats elise. depending on how good of a elise player it is tryndamere to a extent as well.
|
Isn't chalice Maphite pretty good versus Elise? Dont play much toplane nowadays but I remember that lane being kinda easy. Just smack her with Q every cd and outsustain her.
|
huh malphite has mana problems he has zero sustain o.O;
|
|
|
Malphite does okay, but I don't feel like he really wins the lane without significant jungler help. My go to pick has always been Garen, and doing something obnoxious like triple null magic mantle into spirit visage, merc treads, bulwark and relying on Garen's stupid high base damage to win the day.
Problem is more people play jungle Elise these days than top Elise, so picking Garen as a counter can be dicey. Also building that much MR is problematic if their mid is AD unless you absolutely crush Elise.
|
is it bad to switch out of spiderform in a team fight if your ability's are off cool down in human form?
|
On August 08 2013 11:24 IamPryda wrote:
is it bad to switch out of spiderform in a team fight if your ability's are off cool down in human form?
When I play her in teamfights its usually Human use all 3 spider use Q/W auto, then as long as I'm on my target I just mash Q in spider form. If my w+q in human form can finish someone, or they get out of melee, or I'm forced to back off melee range I'll go back to human for for another round of abilities.
I save spider e to save my ass or finish off someone who got away at low hp, or to follow through a movement ability.
|
Hey guys, a lot of elise is played in the jungle now. But, is she still a good toplane champion? It's really fallen out of favor in competitive play, but now with the resurgence of jax due to the Trinity force buffs, it seems like she might see some more popularity in the near future?
Secondly, in top lane, is it best to go for Sorcs, guise, tank items like sunfire/FH, or to go sorc, guise, ap items like abyssal/zhonya, or is it situational?
|
Mana costs make it more difficult but I'm pretty sure she is still a strong top laner. Jax doesn't sound like a great matchup though.
|
She's good as a counterpick, but otherwise she is too open to abuse by too many champs. She basically has 2 options:
-Max Q. If she does this against a competent player they will shove hard. Q-max elise has severe problems with wave-clear. Last-hitting with spider-Q under tower isn't that bad but this will allow the enemy top laner to roam hard. You also can't even begin to harass the opponent until level 3, since level 1 Q doesn't do nearly enough damage per mana and you will run oom extremely fast. Any time I see an enemy Elise use Q harass on me at level 1 I know it's going to be an easy lane.
-Max W. Now she can wave-clear but lacks burst. If the opponent is dumb enough to sit and trade with her while spider-W is active, then you'll win a trade. No good players are that dumb. Max-W elise will get out-traded by any decent aggressive top-laner. At the same time getting into a farm-war is usually not recommended as Elise scales pretty badly compared with a lot of common top-laners.
Also generally speaking, if Elise dies early against a bruiser they will come back with a Negatron and that's basically gg for Elise's laning phase. You won't be able to do shit against a 1/0 renekton who goes negatron -> hexdrinker (-> merc treads)
Still, when she has a good matchup she dumps 'em hard and so she is still a good counterpick.
|
On October 17 2013 07:40 BlasiuS wrote:
She's good as a counterpick, but otherwise she is too open to abuse by too many champs. She basically has 2 options:
-Max Q. If she does this against a competent player they will shove hard. Q-max elise has severe problems with wave-clear. Last-hitting with spider-Q under tower isn't that bad but this will allow the enemy top laner to roam hard. You also can't even begin to harass the opponent until level 3, since level 1 Q doesn't do nearly enough damage per mana and you will run oom extremely fast. Any time I see an enemy Elise use Q harass on me at level 1 I know it's going to be an easy lane.
-Max W. Now she can wave-clear but lacks burst. If the opponent is dumb enough to sit and trade with her while spider-W is active, then you'll win a trade. No good players are that dumb. Max-W elise will get out-traded by any decent aggressive top-laner. At the same time getting into a farm-war is usually not recommended as Elise scales pretty badly compared with a lot of common top-laners.
Also generally speaking, if Elise dies early against a bruiser they will come back with a Negatron and that's basically gg for Elise's laning phase. You won't be able to do shit against a 1/0 renekton who goes negatron -> hexdrinker (-> merc treads)
Still, when she has a good matchup she dumps 'em hard and so she is still a good counterpick.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
I've never faced an Elise that maxed W before, but the one that max Q should have troubles with lane pressure. I could see flask + ward + pot being a decent opener against Elise where you just push the wave really hard and she won't be able to harass you once your minion wave is strong enough. Then your ward is there to watch for counterganks, and finally when you can go back, you get a negatron -> cowl or mercs or hexdrinker.
And of course W's attack speed is only useful if you get all of it off.
|
This thread needs an update.
Elise jungle probably top jungler now since she maintains decent amounts damage while being the only top tier jungle with ranged hard CC.
To further abuse that, R>Q>E>W with a fast jungle item + CDR boots is now quite common in higher leagues + competitive play.
Sucks her runes are really expensive to buy tho, been playing around with dual pen reds + 1 quint, AP blues + 2 quints, mastery obviously mixed AD AP 21/9 page...along with an early dorans ring after boots maximizing her early game potential...
CDR boots and ancient golems mid game with a couple points into E allows it to be on a sub 10s CD, great for intiating mid game fights.
Her ridiculously versatile item pool also allows her to fill many roles for the team, something I love about strong junglers.
|
I much prefer scaling mr or scaling ap over ap glyphs. I do like the single hybrid quint. I like to go ss>boots1>golem>giants belt>mpen/CD-R boots>Sunfire>haunting guise>omens>banshees sometimes I'll grab. Void staff or hourglass instead as 5th or sixth item.r>q>e>w I max e over w most games but if we are a more press r comp over pick comp I still max w sometimes
|
On June 12 2014 01:18 IamPryda wrote:
I much prefer scaling mr or scaling ap over ap glyphs. I do like the single hybrid quint. I like to go ss>boots1>golem>giants belt>mpen/CD-R boots>Sunfire>haunting guise>omens>banshees sometimes I'll grab. Void staff or hourglass instead as 5th or sixth item.r>q>e>w I max e over w most games but if we are a more press r comp over pick comp I still max w sometimes
I dont have an extra rune page for a scaling ap glyph I do realize a freaking bruiser-ish champion shouldnt be walking around with only 30 mr though. Sucks I cant buy rune pages with IP on Chinese server (company here is a money grabbing piece of shit)
|
On June 12 2014 02:20 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 01:18 IamPryda wrote:
I much prefer scaling mr or scaling ap over ap glyphs. I do like the single hybrid quint. I like to go ss>boots1>golem>giants belt>mpen/CD-R boots>Sunfire>haunting guise>omens>banshees sometimes I'll grab. Void staff or hourglass instead as 5th or sixth item.r>q>e>w I max e over w most games but if we are a more press r comp over pick comp I still max w sometimes I dont have an extra rune page for a scaling ap glyph I do realize a freaking bruiser-ish champion shouldnt be walking around with only 30 mr though. Sucks I cant buy rune pages with IP on Chinese server (company here is a money grabbing piece of shit)
any form of AP is pretty much wasted on elise because of how terrible her AP scaling is until you break the 100 AP point
some good players run elise with offensive masteries/runes but when you look at their actual builds its inefficient, they end up barely breaking 100 additional AP
if you want to do the most efficient build you can go
sotg, lucidity boots, randuins omen, banshees veil, void staff, war mogs or anything else
and get 4 AP through runes and run 15 or 21 in offense
this will help you break the 100 ap limit to get increased hp% without wasting any AP
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
What do you mean breaking 100 AP point
you know that your Q AP ratio counts even when it's below 100, right?
|
yeah but league rounds everything down, going the flat AP will only increase by .33%
but if you give yourself the minimum necessary you can still burst someone down reliably while staying tanky late game.
elise is one of the few champions where you can build her so many different ways, i feel like pro's are playing her more how they want to and not how she is most effective
could be wrong though, I just don't think making her stronger in her already strong early game only to make her late game suffer is worth it in solo queue
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
league doesn't round anything down, it just doesn't display a lot of shit
it actually keeps track of fractions of your hp, it just doesn't show it because 3652.37 doesn't look pretty
just to make it absolutely clear: having 15 AP on Elise will make your Q do 8.45% of the enemy HP in damage.
|
Yeah, Scip is right. A lot of people would parrot the "Elise doesn't get any benefit from AP below 100" nonsense when she came out, but it's wrong. I don't know why that persists to this day, it's been like a year and a half. If you play her enough games, it's really easy to notice your q does more damage to champions the more AP you have and it doesn't magically go up at 100. And he's right about the lack of rounding too.
|
damn i just noticed Elise Q is 3% per 100 instead of the usual 1%
not bad
|
That's because she works off of %current/missing HP and not %max HP (also single target).
On top of this,the vast majority of these abilities don't scale at all (whether the %HP damage is the full ability (Mundo's cleavers, Vayne's silver bolts... ) or an additional part slapped on top of it (Poppy's Q, Fizz's W... ).
There are a few exception, like Mordekaiser's ult, which is, well, an ult, also a DoT over a long duration and single-target, and Nasus's ult which is AoE but periodic damage in a small radius.
|
Wait, people usually Q-max?
o.o
I feel like W max just does more damage and keeps you so much healthier though. Makes your Human W poke huge, and your Q damage is huge against champions anyway because of that %-deeps being flat.
Am I the only who does this?
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
|
On September 03 2014 13:31 Scip wrote:
No, I W max as well
Ah, k.
I thought I was missing something.
I tested it and was like "Nope... W max definitely faster wtf".
Any tips Mr scip? I'm really bad at elise and want to pick her up. Just spammed probably 15 coop vs ai games as her so I stop giving up her skills. Lol.
|
Are people mainly going wraith on her now? I think golem first item sucks so I have been trying haunting guise into golem but it really sucks to delay your jungle item
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Haunting guise into golem is certainly terrible
People either go Spectral Wraith first or Sightstone into Ancient Golem or Sightstone into Spectral Wraith. I personally prefer the first of those options.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/97m7V.jpg)
