I really really don't like Spectral Wraith on Elise, after the nerfs it is hardly even cost effective let alone worth it. Getting Haunting Guise instead and/or other damage items is probably way better. Ancient Golem is the best choice once you decide you have enough damage (like Haunting Guise+Sorcs) and need to go pure tank now.

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

July 16 2013 06:51 GMT

#122

There was like one patch (12 days) where it had 50 ability power and the cost was reduced to what it is now. It's only lost 10 ability power and gained the reduced smite cooldown (and +5% damage vs monsters, but so did spirit of the ancient golem), so its cost effectiveness has not changed substantially since its inception. Unless you're referring to the nerfs to Elise making the spell vamp less valuable?

Both spectral wraith and ancient golem are very cost effective, so I think it is a little silly to say it is "hardly even worth the cost." If you don't think you can get the maximum benefit given the cost, that's a different story. Obviously if you're getting cced and explode instantly it's not worth a whole lot.

I do understand your perspective though, I often feel like I get away with a lot of crap with spectral wraith that I probably shouldn't be simply because teams at my level are terrible at dealing with threats like Elise appropriately. I've been incorporating ancient golem into my builds more often, and the results have been pretty positive. My gut feeling is that in general, spectral wraith is better against disorganized, lower level teams and ancient golem is better against more coordinated teams. Although that's completing ignoring team comps and a bunch of other stuff.

Also, I've been building Zhonya's a lot less after you said you disliked it, and I agree with you on that point now, although I still think there's a small niche for it.

ShaLLoW[baY]

Canada12499 Posts

July 19 2013 01:43 GMT

#123

I'm still running 14 mpen on elise jungle with armor and mr seals/glyphs, but someone told me that lifesteal quints would let me start with dblade

i started with dblade just running spen page and didnt really get low, but i can see the logic, is this common these days?

FinestHour

United States18466 Posts

July 19 2013 08:15 GMT

#124

there was some mathcraft done and mpen is way too good on her to get anything else i think

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

July 19 2013 12:03 GMT

#125

Are MPen Quints (which don't help your clear) really that much better than AP Quints? I know that Q benefits better from them, but W/spider autos/spiderlings have pretty good damage from AP...

Jek

Denmark2771 Posts

July 19 2013 16:31 GMT

#126

On July 19 2013 21:03 sylverfyre wrote:
Are MPen Quints (which don't help your clear) really that much better than AP Quints? I know that Q benefits better from them, but W/spider autos/spiderlings have pretty good damage from AP...

I've played a lot of jungle Elise over the last few days and I don't really think you need aggressive quints on her for a fast and safe jungle clear. I use hybrid reds and CDR quints (to gain a fairly high CDR fast for better chase and escape), by just let spiderlings tank creeps I can clear the jungle fairly fast and still have quite a few potions to spare.

I always go for Golem stone so I can use Sorc boots. :-)

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

July 21 2013 14:24 GMT

#127

Hey if you're up against Elise as Jax, do you get a more magic resist oriented build then get 3 null magic mantles into hexdrinker or do you just do a normal build?

A normal build gives more lifesteal for when Elise leaves lane and is stronger earlier due to better build paths but the MR build would help against all that free harass.

Also do you change summoners?

Scip

Czech Republic11293 Posts

July 21 2013 15:03 GMT

#128

I always get destroyed by elise as jax
what I've been doing is my standard double dorans blade and then into like double null magic for hexdrinker, but it's super difficult to allin her because she just rappels as soon as you use your stun... Don't think there is any build that will win you the lane, but this one allows you to stay in at least for a little bit.

RouaF

France4120 Posts

July 21 2013 19:30 GMT

#129

But honestly, what wins against Elise ? I don't know a single champ that does.

IamPryda

United States1186 Posts

July 21 2013 19:33 GMT

#130

I really don't think u can win lane with jax vs Elise without alot of early jungle help. I gave up first blood to a jax after the fourth or fifth pre6 gank from a jarvan finally got me and still finished 25 cs up with 3 kills. The jax went dorans 2 null mantle into hexdrinker and vamp scepter but I could poke more then he could sustain and was just a matter of time before I was able to stun and combo for a few easy kills

FinestHour

United States18466 Posts

July 21 2013 22:56 GMT

#131

the answer is yes mpen beats ap on her in like almost all situations
ill try to find the webpage that figured this out

TomatoShark

United States288 Posts

July 22 2013 00:46 GMT

#132

vlad beats elise. depending on how good of a elise player it is tryndamere to a extent as well.

zodde

Sweden1908 Posts

July 22 2013 02:19 GMT

#133

Isn't chalice Maphite pretty good versus Elise? Dont play much toplane nowadays but I remember that lane being kinda easy. Just smack her with Q every cd and outsustain her.

TomatoShark

United States288 Posts

July 22 2013 02:26 GMT

#134

huh malphite has mana problems he has zero sustain o.O;

ShaLLoW[baY]

Canada12499 Posts

July 22 2013 10:36 GMT

#135

hence the chalice?

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

July 22 2013 18:44 GMT

#136

Malphite does okay, but I don't feel like he really wins the lane without significant jungler help. My go to pick has always been Garen, and doing something obnoxious like triple null magic mantle into spirit visage, merc treads, bulwark and relying on Garen's stupid high base damage to win the day.

Problem is more people play jungle Elise these days than top Elise, so picking Garen as a counter can be dicey. Also building that much MR is problematic if their mid is AD unless you absolutely crush Elise.

IamPryda

United States1186 Posts

August 08 2013 02:24 GMT

#137

is it bad to switch out of spiderform in a team fight if your ability's are off cool down in human form?

dae

Canada1600 Posts

August 08 2013 02:51 GMT

#138

On August 08 2013 11:24 IamPryda wrote:
is it bad to switch out of spiderform in a team fight if your ability's are off cool down in human form?

When I play her in teamfights its usually Human use all 3 spider use Q/W auto, then as long as I'm on my target I just mash Q in spider form. If my w+q in human form can finish someone, or they get out of melee, or I'm forced to back off melee range I'll go back to human for for another round of abilities.

I save spider e to save my ass or finish off someone who got away at low hp, or to follow through a movement ability.

Sajaki

Canada1135 Posts

October 15 2013 06:14 GMT

#139

Hey guys, a lot of elise is played in the jungle now. But, is she still a good toplane champion? It's really fallen out of favor in competitive play, but now with the resurgence of jax due to the Trinity force buffs, it seems like she might see some more popularity in the near future?

Secondly, in top lane, is it best to go for Sorcs, guise, tank items like sunfire/FH, or to go sorc, guise, ap items like abyssal/zhonya, or is it situational?