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She's good as a counterpick, but otherwise she is too open to abuse by too many champs. She basically has 2 options:
-Max Q. If she does this against a competent player they will shove hard. Q-max elise has severe problems with wave-clear. Last-hitting with spider-Q under tower isn't that bad but this will allow the enemy top laner to roam hard. You also can't even begin to harass the opponent until level 3, since level 1 Q doesn't do nearly enough damage per mana and you will run oom extremely fast. Any time I see an enemy Elise use Q harass on me at level 1 I know it's going to be an easy lane.
-Max W. Now she can wave-clear but lacks burst. If the opponent is dumb enough to sit and trade with her while spider-W is active, then you'll win a trade. No good players are that dumb. Max-W elise will get out-traded by any decent aggressive top-laner. At the same time getting into a farm-war is usually not recommended as Elise scales pretty badly compared with a lot of common top-laners.
Also generally speaking, if Elise dies early against a bruiser they will come back with a Negatron and that's basically gg for Elise's laning phase. You won't be able to do shit against a 1/0 renekton who goes negatron -> hexdrinker (-> merc treads)
Still, when she has a good matchup she dumps 'em hard and so she is still a good counterpick.
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On October 17 2013 07:40 BlasiuS wrote:
She's good as a counterpick, but otherwise she is too open to abuse by too many champs. She basically has 2 options:
-Max Q. If she does this against a competent player they will shove hard. Q-max elise has severe problems with wave-clear. Last-hitting with spider-Q under tower isn't that bad but this will allow the enemy top laner to roam hard. You also can't even begin to harass the opponent until level 3, since level 1 Q doesn't do nearly enough damage per mana and you will run oom extremely fast. Any time I see an enemy Elise use Q harass on me at level 1 I know it's going to be an easy lane.
-Max W. Now she can wave-clear but lacks burst. If the opponent is dumb enough to sit and trade with her while spider-W is active, then you'll win a trade. No good players are that dumb. Max-W elise will get out-traded by any decent aggressive top-laner. At the same time getting into a farm-war is usually not recommended as Elise scales pretty badly compared with a lot of common top-laners.
Also generally speaking, if Elise dies early against a bruiser they will come back with a Negatron and that's basically gg for Elise's laning phase. You won't be able to do shit against a 1/0 renekton who goes negatron -> hexdrinker (-> merc treads)
Still, when she has a good matchup she dumps 'em hard and so she is still a good counterpick.
That makes a lot of sense to me.
I've never faced an Elise that maxed W before, but the one that max Q should have troubles with lane pressure. I could see flask + ward + pot being a decent opener against Elise where you just push the wave really hard and she won't be able to harass you once your minion wave is strong enough. Then your ward is there to watch for counterganks, and finally when you can go back, you get a negatron -> cowl or mercs or hexdrinker.
And of course W's attack speed is only useful if you get all of it off.
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This thread needs an update.
Elise jungle probably top jungler now since she maintains decent amounts damage while being the only top tier jungle with ranged hard CC.
To further abuse that, R>Q>E>W with a fast jungle item + CDR boots is now quite common in higher leagues + competitive play.
Sucks her runes are really expensive to buy tho, been playing around with dual pen reds + 1 quint, AP blues + 2 quints, mastery obviously mixed AD AP 21/9 page...along with an early dorans ring after boots maximizing her early game potential...
CDR boots and ancient golems mid game with a couple points into E allows it to be on a sub 10s CD, great for intiating mid game fights.
Her ridiculously versatile item pool also allows her to fill many roles for the team, something I love about strong junglers.
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I much prefer scaling mr or scaling ap over ap glyphs. I do like the single hybrid quint. I like to go ss>boots1>golem>giants belt>mpen/CD-R boots>Sunfire>haunting guise>omens>banshees sometimes I'll grab. Void staff or hourglass instead as 5th or sixth item.r>q>e>w I max e over w most games but if we are a more press r comp over pick comp I still max w sometimes
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On June 12 2014 01:18 IamPryda wrote:
I much prefer scaling mr or scaling ap over ap glyphs. I do like the single hybrid quint. I like to go ss>boots1>golem>giants belt>mpen/CD-R boots>Sunfire>haunting guise>omens>banshees sometimes I'll grab. Void staff or hourglass instead as 5th or sixth item.r>q>e>w I max e over w most games but if we are a more press r comp over pick comp I still max w sometimes
I dont have an extra rune page for a scaling ap glyph  I do realize a freaking bruiser-ish champion shouldnt be walking around with only 30 mr though. Sucks I cant buy rune pages with IP on Chinese server (company here is a money grabbing piece of shit)
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On June 12 2014 02:20 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 01:18 IamPryda wrote:
I much prefer scaling mr or scaling ap over ap glyphs. I do like the single hybrid quint. I like to go ss>boots1>golem>giants belt>mpen/CD-R boots>Sunfire>haunting guise>omens>banshees sometimes I'll grab. Void staff or hourglass instead as 5th or sixth item.r>q>e>w I max e over w most games but if we are a more press r comp over pick comp I still max w sometimes I dont have an extra rune page for a scaling ap glyph I do realize a freaking bruiser-ish champion shouldnt be walking around with only 30 mr though. Sucks I cant buy rune pages with IP on Chinese server (company here is a money grabbing piece of shit)
any form of AP is pretty much wasted on elise because of how terrible her AP scaling is until you break the 100 AP point
some good players run elise with offensive masteries/runes but when you look at their actual builds its inefficient, they end up barely breaking 100 additional AP
if you want to do the most efficient build you can go
sotg, lucidity boots, randuins omen, banshees veil, void staff, war mogs or anything else
and get 4 AP through runes and run 15 or 21 in offense
this will help you break the 100 ap limit to get increased hp% without wasting any AP
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
What do you mean breaking 100 AP point
you know that your Q AP ratio counts even when it's below 100, right?
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yeah but league rounds everything down, going the flat AP will only increase by .33%
but if you give yourself the minimum necessary you can still burst someone down reliably while staying tanky late game.
elise is one of the few champions where you can build her so many different ways, i feel like pro's are playing her more how they want to and not how she is most effective
could be wrong though, I just don't think making her stronger in her already strong early game only to make her late game suffer is worth it in solo queue
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
league doesn't round anything down, it just doesn't display a lot of shit
it actually keeps track of fractions of your hp, it just doesn't show it because 3652.37 doesn't look pretty
just to make it absolutely clear: having 15 AP on Elise will make your Q do 8.45% of the enemy HP in damage.
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Yeah, Scip is right. A lot of people would parrot the "Elise doesn't get any benefit from AP below 100" nonsense when she came out, but it's wrong. I don't know why that persists to this day, it's been like a year and a half. If you play her enough games, it's really easy to notice your q does more damage to champions the more AP you have and it doesn't magically go up at 100. And he's right about the lack of rounding too.
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damn i just noticed Elise Q is 3% per 100 instead of the usual 1%
not bad
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That's because she works off of %current/missing HP and not %max HP (also single target).
On top of this,the vast majority of these abilities don't scale at all (whether the %HP damage is the full ability (Mundo's cleavers, Vayne's silver bolts... ) or an additional part slapped on top of it (Poppy's Q, Fizz's W... ).
There are a few exception, like Mordekaiser's ult, which is, well, an ult, also a DoT over a long duration and single-target, and Nasus's ult which is AoE but periodic damage in a small radius.
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Wait, people usually Q-max?
o.o
I feel like W max just does more damage and keeps you so much healthier though. Makes your Human W poke huge, and your Q damage is huge against champions anyway because of that %-deeps being flat.
Am I the only who does this?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
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On September 03 2014 13:31 Scip wrote:
No, I W max as well
Ah, k.
I thought I was missing something.
I tested it and was like "Nope... W max definitely faster wtf".
Any tips Mr scip? I'm really bad at elise and want to pick her up. Just spammed probably 15 coop vs ai games as her so I stop giving up her skills. Lol.
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Are people mainly going wraith on her now? I think golem first item sucks so I have been trying haunting guise into golem but it really sucks to delay your jungle item
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Haunting guise into golem is certainly terrible
People either go Spectral Wraith first or Sightstone into Ancient Golem or Sightstone into Spectral Wraith. I personally prefer the first of those options.
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EPT
