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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On January 23 2012 16:18 NEOtheONE wrote: Well as I have yet to see a jungle Alistar, I obviously have not seen this, but I shall make sure to try it with a friend now. Should watch Snoopeh, he does it all the time and he's pretty darn good at it | ||
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CruxCrownTrigger
United States4 Posts
I remember seeing a particularly helpful picture that showed obvious skillshot exits for Q and just thought it'd be really helpful to include for Anivia (or maybe just general skillshot theory? I haven't seen a thread like that yet. Or would this be more mentally-driven through understanding the logic behind player choices). I was also wondering if placing her Ult right on the opponent would be best and most efficient. Is there an amount of time that makes up for the mana cost versus damage of her ult rather than a Q or even E? I remember Q->E->Ult->Wall, or even Ult->Q->E->Wall and OP stated you could E->Ult and land after frostbite hits. Is there a reason you would launch E first before your ult? Just wondering if there was any other obvious reasons than for surprise damage. And finally another question (Sorry I have so much)-- I remember some comments I've gained from playing Anivia and that was it'd be better to be a "Mother hen" with her. Rather than grabbing kills, it's better to just farm because she can't carry as well. Just wondering if that's still encouraged. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On January 25 2012 02:56 CruxCrownTrigger wrote: Hello. Pretty new to the League forums on TeamLiquid and was wondering if you were going to include some general skillshot theory for Anivia. I played Anivia during Season 1 and just started (playing) again (still exploring newer characters). I remember seeing a particularly helpful picture that showed obvious skillshot exits for Q and just thought it'd be really helpful to include for Anivia (or maybe just general skillshot theory? I haven't seen a thread like that yet. Or would this be more mentally-driven through understanding the logic behind player choices). I was also wondering if placing her Ult right on the opponent would be best and most efficient. Is there an amount of time that makes up for the mana cost versus damage of her ult rather than a Q or even E? I remember Q->E->Ult->Wall, or even Ult->Q->E->Wall and OP stated you could E->Ult and land after frostbite hits. Is there a reason you would launch E first before your ult? Just wondering if there was any other obvious reasons than for surprise damage. And finally another question (Sorry I have so much)-- I remember some comments I've gained from playing Anivia and that was it'd be better to be a "Mother hen" with her. Rather than grabbing kills, it's better to just farm because she can't carry as well. Just wondering if that's still encouraged. Skillshot theory is more practice than anything else. I have a replay somewhere of me flashing to get range on 2 people who were low, shooting Q through a wall and stunning them both for a double kill after seeing them running about 2 seconds previously. In terms of landing Q, it's best to wait for the opponent to commit to something like lasthitting or casting before launching it. It's the slowest skillshot in the game, and while it has a large hitbox, it's still easily dodged. Ult isn't really mana efficient in terms of damage on a single target. It's used more for getting the chilled debuff than anything. E>ult is quick harass that doesn't commit everything. In about half a second you can deal 25-30% of an average mid's health just by being in range for E. By launching E before Ult, you only need to be in range for a moment, no need to chase down the enemy to deal the full damage of E. Ultimate has an effective range far beyond the 650 of E. Using full combo is only good for securing a kill IMO, because it is extremely mana heavy and leaves you vulnerable without any CD's up. She can absolutely carry. I don't know where people get the idea that she can't. You can get kills precisely because she farms so well. So long as you keep building damage throughout the game, you don't ever fall off. | ||
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CruxCrownTrigger
United States4 Posts
She can absolutely carry. I don't know where people get the idea that she can't. You can get kills precisely because she farms so well. So long as you keep building damage throughout the game, you don't ever fall off. Thanks for the replies! I was always a bit wary of not getting kills with Anivia, so that saves me a bit of worry. | ||
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:19 Amui wrote: Skillshot theory is more practice than anything else. I have a replay somewhere of me flashing to get range on 2 people who were low, shooting Q through a wall and stunning them both for a double kill after seeing them running about 2 seconds previously. In terms of landing Q, it's best to wait for the opponent to commit to something like lasthitting or casting before launching it. It's the slowest skillshot in the game, and while it has a large hitbox, it's still easily dodged. Ult isn't really mana efficient in terms of damage on a single target. It's used more for getting the chilled debuff than anything. E>ult is quick harass that doesn't commit everything. In about half a second you can deal 25-30% of an average mid's health just by being in range for E. By launching E before Ult, you only need to be in range for a moment, no need to chase down the enemy to deal the full damage of E. Ultimate has an effective range far beyond the 650 of E. Using full combo is only good for securing a kill IMO, because it is extremely mana heavy and leaves you vulnerable without any CD's up. She can absolutely carry. I don't know where people get the idea that she can't. You can get kills precisely because she farms so well. So long as you keep building damage throughout the game, you don't ever fall off. I totally agree that she can carry. The main thing that stops her from carrying is an AD carry on your team gets a little fed first and then proceeds to repeatedly KS you. I've had a lot of 2 or 3-2-10+ matches lately simply for this reason. But, it's not a bad thing because it usually means your team is ahead. If you want to get good at avoiding ganks, try playing some normals without using flash for awhile. This forces you to rely on her stun, slow, and wall to avoid being ganked. If you can generally avoid dying to ganks without flash, you will be in that much better shape when you have the option to flash because you will rarely burn it to dodge ganks and can stick to using it offensively. | ||
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Akinokaze
Australia326 Posts
Edit: By opening Chalice I literally mean starting with Magic Mantle or Meki but I guess a standard opening into Chalice is fine | ||
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Lokrium
United States131 Posts
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Akinokaze
Australia326 Posts
Okay let's do some live math craft here: + Show Spoiler + Say you get chalice/tear at lv6 (edit: I think a chalice opening could realistically be completed at 5min or the 10th wave) Base mp5@lv4 Anivia: 7+(6*0.6) = 10.6 MP5/lv Seals: 9*(0.065*6) = 3.51 MP5 Mastery lv3: 3 Total base: 17.11 w/ Tear Base + 7 = 24.11 w/ Chalice Base + 7.5 + %mp missing = 24.61 (up to 49.22) w/ Blue buff Base + 25 + 1% max mana* = 17.11 + 25 + (0.01*647) = 48.58 *Max mana@lv6 Base: 257 + (53*6) = 575 Mana Mastery lv3: 12*6 = 72 Total: 575 + 72 = 647 (997 w/ Tear) w/ Blue buff+Tear w/Tear + 25 + 1% max mana*= 24.11 + 25 + (0.01*997) = 65.08 w/ Blue buff+Chalice w/Chalice + 25 + 1% max mana* + %mp missing = 24.61 + 25 + (0.01*647) = 56.08 (up to 112.16) We can see here that Tear alone is far inferior to just Blue. Catalyst would be a bit hard to factor in to these figures but keep in mind the gold cost (Chalice 890, Tear 995, Catalyst 1325). The question is: how much is too much? Would the increased mp5 allow you to be more aggressive, potentially netting you more gold in the long run? | ||
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Lokrium
United States131 Posts
Basically, I don't like getting either of them, because it delays your damage too much. I feel like tear is better because it provides enough mana if you play smart, and it has the powerful option of archangels in the lategame. Chalice feels like an option that you get when you are losing that makes you lose more. I used to run anivia with tear-cata-rod-deathcap, and it was just too slow compared to getting an earlier rod and earlier sorc shoes. I haven't personally used chalice on anyone except Galio, so if it works for you then keep at it. I just don't think it's worth it. edit: as for it allowing you to be more aggressive in lane, tear lets you do the same thing until your mana buffer runs out, meaning that you have to be smarter with when you base. But if you can get your base timings right, tear provides just as much utility as chalice. | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
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Akinokaze
Australia326 Posts
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
But that's just Froggen, I've seen him go sword of the occult, bloodthirster and manamune on anivia and still go legendary with her. | ||
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rightstuff
United States160 Posts
I don't know that this is entirely a bad thing, but I feel like it prevents Anivia from roaming as easily when you can't clear the creep wave in an instant reliably without going OOM. Also, it makes fighting aggressive AP champs like Leblanc harder because you can't cut their CS as much by safely shoving the lane into their tower. Has anyone tried going (shudder) chalice forR and mana regen? Or am I just playing incorrectly? | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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rightstuff
United States160 Posts
If you mean hit the melee units twice with Q and let R handle the ranged guys it certainly pushes the lane like I want, but I run into mana management trouble early-mid game with the new blue buff. I'm sure everyone knows how vulnerable Anivia is with low mana and a Q on cd. | ||
Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On March 29 2012 02:12 rightstuff wrote: How would I go about hitting melee creeps twice and the ranged creeps once? I feel pretty unsafe if I'm behind their minion wave, especially if I have Q on cd. If you mean hit the melee units twice with Q and let R handle the ranged guys it certainly pushes the lane like I want, but I run into mana management trouble early-mid game with the new blue buff. I'm sure everyone knows how vulnerable Anivia is with low mana and a Q on cd. i would double hit Q the melee creeps and R the ranged ones, your mana is gonna run out even with blue buff and tear + cata thats just how it works if you try to aggressively farm by pushing like that | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 29 2012 02:34 Frolossus wrote: i would double hit Q the melee creeps and R the ranged ones, your mana is gonna run out even with blue buff and tear + cata thats just how it works if you try to aggressively farm by pushing like that This is probably the best way to do it tbh. I usually ult once I can get the ranged minions all inside ultimate range, and then double proc Q all the melee's for a guaranteed 6 every time without fail. At most follow up with an E on the cannon creep and all set to go. After about 5-6 games with the blue nerf, I've just taken to clearing 3-4 waves while picking up wraiths/wolves as much as I can until I have ~300 mana left, and then just finishing off the wave as fast as possible before going back for more mana. Done correctly you won't miss more than 2-3 CS with boots, and out of 4 waves, that's not too significant. I've experimented with going boots3->cata -> 2x dorans->RoA and it's okay. Quite a bit tankier and far stronger early to midgame and is about equal for laning without blue buff, but doesn't lend itself to building a charged archangels lategame very well. The games I used that build though I usually ended up with something like RoA boots Dcap Voidstaff banshees and would finish with hourglass if I could for a more tanky Anivia. After seeing froggen/scarra play going tear first though, I wonder how they get away with it. Feels so incredibly squishy against a lot of mids without the HP buffer of catalyst or dorans. | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
I feel like even at my potential I can only defend myself to a certain point :/ also does anyone else feel like Anivia is starting to fall behind on the ranks as a ap carry(I feel like there are stronger picks than her)? | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On April 06 2012 03:35 heroyi wrote: anyone got tips on playing vs brand other than requesting help from the jungler? I feel like even at my potential I can only defend myself to a certain point :/ also does anyone else feel like Anivia is starting to fall behind on the ranks as a ap carry(I feel like there are stronger picks than her)? open boots+3, play passively if you can, and stay behind creeps so you don't get stunned if possible. Juke pillars as best you can. I personally use MR blues and just try to survive til 6. Brand's cooldowns are even longer than Anivia's though so if he spends them clearing creeps I walk up and try to Q(optional) E+auto him. It's not a lot of damage, but it's good trade in this matchup IMO. It's a hard lane to say the least though. Getting mercs isn't a horrible idea either. So long as Brand doesn't kill you early though you outscale him pretty hard unless he ults 5 people or something like that. Anivia's been going out for a lot of lower players because she's by far the most mana inefficient clearer in the game. Ever since blue nerf she oom's just clearing creeps until around 1500 mana and her early laning is pretty frustrating. It's just mid-lategame her 1.0 ratios make her so incredibly powerful in conjunction with her wall. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On April 06 2012 03:35 heroyi wrote: anyone got tips on playing vs brand other than requesting help from the jungler? I feel like even at my potential I can only defend myself to a certain point :/ also does anyone else feel like Anivia is starting to fall behind on the ranks as a ap carry(I feel like there are stronger picks than her)? no way is Anivia falling behind as a pick, she is getting a huge amount of tournament play right now with Manyreason and Froggen just destroying with her. | ||
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