[Champion] Anivia

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Amui

Canada10567 Posts

January 02 2012 00:09 GMT

Anivia, the Cryophoenix

+ Show Spoiler [patch notes] +

She hasn't been changed since I started playing. And that was quite a while ago.

+ Show Spoiler [base stats] +


Health:        350+70
Health Regen:  4.65+.55
Mana:          257+53
Mana Regen:    7.0+.6
AD:            48+3.2
Range:         600
Armor:         10.5+4
Magic Resist   30
Movespeed      325

Introduction

Anivia the Cryophoenix is a area control utility mage. She brings extremely high scaling, the best waveclear in the game and excellent teamfight control. With the combination of the best waveclear in the game, one of the best initiating/disengage tools in her wall, and low cooldowns, she is one of the strongest lategame mages. With her slow movement speed, high mana costs and long cooldowns early on though, she is also one of the most vulnerable midlaners early game before she gets items and blue buff.

Skills

Rebirth

+ Show Spoiler [details] +

Upon dying, Anivia will revert into an egg and will get an armor and magic resistance modifier of -40 / -25 / -10 / +5 / +20. If the egg can survive for six seconds, she is reborn with the same percentage of health that her egg had left. This can only happen once every four minutes.

A revive passive, however this one does not grant you invulnerability. At lower levels, egg form has negative resists, being extremely vulnerable. It can be used to bait, however be certain that you will get to revive.

Flash Frost

+ Show Spoiler [details] +

Anivia brings her wings together and summons a single piercing shard of ice that flies on a line, chilling, slowing movement by 20% and damaging anyone in its path. When the shard explodes or is detonated by Anivia it deals magic damage in a radius, stunning anyone in the area for 1 second. The magic damage done by both the shard and the detonation is the same.

Cost: 80/100/120/140/160 Mana
Cooldown: 12/11/10/9/8 seconds
Magic Damage: 60/90/120/150/180 (+0.5 per ability power)
Range: 1100 (detonation radius 150)

First activation launches a slow projectile. On second activation, the projectile explodes, Use with caution because it is both your defensive and offensive skill early on, with an extremely long cooldown. Aim to land the projectile when your opponent is going for CS. In more passive matchups, or when you are getting pushed in early, use this skill to push back by double proccing it on large groups of minions, or using it to last hit under turret.

Crystallize

+ Show Spoiler [details] +

Anivia condenses the moisture in the air into an impenetrable wall of ice to block the movement of her enemies. The wall only lasts a short duration before it melts.
Anivia summons an impenetrable wall of ice 400/500/600/700/800 units wide, blocking all movement. The wall lasts for 5 seconds before it melts.

Cost: 70/90/110/130/150 Mana
Range: 1000

This skill is your all-in-one initiation, disengage, bush check, control, skill. Generally put point into it at 8 or 10, and max it last. Usage will be detailed in a later section.

Frostbite

+ Show Spoiler [details] +

Anivia blasts her target with a freezing wind, dealing magic damage. If the target has been chilled by Anivia's other abilities, they will take double damage.

Cost: 50/60/70/80/90 Mana
Cooldown: 5 seconds(all levels)
Magic Damage: 55/85/115/145/175 (+0.5 per ability power)
Range: 650

The nuke spell. It does double damage if the target has been chilled. The chill effect only needs to be applied before the projectile lands, so you can E and tag people with R for the bonus damage. At level 1, it deals slightly higher damage than an auto attack(assuming AP quints), as well as having a reasonable mana cost. You can use it to get last hits you'd otherwise miss as a pseudo auto reset. At higher skill levels, it can be used to last hit cannon creeps easily for a fairly low cost. With a low cooldown, and only minimally lower damage than Q, it should be maxed first.

Glacial Storm

+ Show Spoiler [details] +

Anivia summons a driving rain of ice and hail to damage her enemies, slowing their movement and attack speed by 20% for 1 second, and chilling them.
Cost: 75+50/70/90 Mana Per Second
Cooldown: 6 seconds upon toggle off
Range: 625 (radius 300)
Leash Range: 1000(estimated)

Anivia's signature spell, this gives her massive waveclear and a huge power spike. It is a channeled spell so stuns, silences, suppresses and knockups will cancel it, but roots will not. It also is one of the most costly spells in the game, with both a high activation cost and upkeep. It provides massive area of effect CC and damage. Place with care in a teamfight as you not only want to tag as many people as possible, you want to make it so that they need to stay in it to continue fighting. It can also be used to zone, by placing it down preemptively, you can make enemy initiation a dicey prospect. Even when far behind, by placing it several seconds before creeps arrive, you can be safely near maximum leash range while still killing the creeps before they reach the tower.

Skill Order

QEQ or QEE, R>E>Q>W

Whether you want to take a second point in Q or E depends on the matchup. If you are getting heavily pushed in, it can be useful to take a second point in Q at 3 to push back and clear faster, especially if creep waves are meeting. I generally put a point into W at 8 or 10 in matchups where the opponent is more short ranged.

Items

Flask openings

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x3 or 1+

Ward opening is safer against aggressive junglers like Zac or Jarvan IV. If you expect it to be a lane where you will be pushed in for much of it pre-6, I would recommend the 3 pot opening as anivia is one of the hardest champions to dive early on.

Faerie Charm openings

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x5+

x3
If you want to get a faster tear or chalice, these are the openings. Double faerie charm opening can be good against certain lanes where you want a chalice very quickly.

First base

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Barring extenuating circumstances(ganks, kills etc), you want to save about 250-300 mana right before dinging 6 so you can clear the wave quickly, base, buy and be back in time for blue buff with shiny new items. Pick up sustain if you need it, and at least one ward, because you probably won’t be able to follow somebody who’s roaming. Catalyst first is generally reserved for dealing with strong AD mids with 100-0 potential. Chain vest into RoA into FH can work against heavy physical team comps(4 or 5 physical damage).

Midgame Goals

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After picking up tear/chalice, you want to try and finish a Rod of Ages ASAP along with sorc shoes. Then finish the other mana item, and head towards a void staff. At this point, you’ll have enough AP, and high enough base values that void will be more cost effective than deathcap.

Offensive items

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Deathcap is an obvious choice. It will find its place in all builds. Liandry’s torment is an excellent choice against more tanky teams as R will deal insane damage over time. Abyssal can be situationally good if there are many sources of magic damage. DFG gives massive AP and CDR, and the active can absolutely wreck somebody in combination with the other skills in anivia’s kit.

Defensive items

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Hourglass is very good if there are heavy assassination threats. Keep in mind Hourglass activation will cancel ult as it is a channeled spell. Seraph’s is there for tear builds. Frozen heart and Spirit visage for high physical and magic damage teams, while also allowing you to cap CDR. Banshees is still really good, but I can’t recommend it over spirit visage unless you are up against a heavy poke team. QSS and GA are highly situational.

General item timings – 10 minutes – tear/chalice + catalyst. RoA+sorcs by 20. Other mana item and void by about 30-35 minutes, and from then on finish whatever you can.

Runes and Masteries

http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#7aK7zllUvdmq3vE
I like this mastery setup, other people may have differing opinions. I prefer the AD&spellsword over AP&1% CDR to take advantage of anivia’s long auto attack range. AD is better than butcher because you don’t need to take butcher to get deeper into the tree. AP is better if you land a lot of spells, but AD is the more consistent lane winning option. If you expect to build an early athene’s, you could take a couple points from CDR and put it into butcher to maximize efficiency, assuming you can get blue buffs.

Red – Mpen - no other choice here really. I guess you could take an AD mark or two to make last hitting easier, or a crit mark.

Yellow - HP/lvl, Flat armor, AP/lvl. – HP/lvl for safe matchups without a lot of physical damage(autos included), armor otherwise. AP/lvl if you really want to play with fire.

Blue - Flat MR, Flat AP, Scaling AP

Quints - Flat AP, MS – AP is the better laning option, MS is the better mid-lategame option.

Gameplay

Laning
Level 1 save your Q unless you see an opportunity open. Your damage output doubles at level 2, for under double the mana, which is quite a bit better than what a lot of other mids can say. Often times it’s a good idea to test your opponent with a stun at the early levels to try and get a sense for how they juke. Auto attack whenever possible, but don’t chase. If you retreat after launching the projectile, often times you will not draw aggro due to how creep AI works. Try to hit as much CS as possible early on because that’s the weakest point of Anivia.

To clear a wave, until I get a lot of mana items/AP built up, I prefer to wait for the creeps to line up before using ultimate to clear. By double proccing Q on the melee’s once they get low, it guarantees that you will get all 3 melees, and the ranged creeps will die before your wave reaches them. You can take wraiths or wolves, but keep in mind that unless you went a chalice build, you are mana neutral at best with blue buff just farming lane. Be mindful of how much mana you have left.

Ward one or both sides to protect your side lanes and jungler and yourself. You are one of the most vulnerable mids to getting caught out, and a poor roamer/duelist, especially when unprepared. Your goal is to farm as much as possible, wraiths wolves are fair game if the jungler isn’t nearby.

Defending

Place ultimate down in the path of creeps several seconds before hand so if an initiation comes, they will be diving from the start. If the ADC still walks up to shoot the tower, wall them in and fire off a Q towards their escape path. They should learn fairly quickly.

Sieging

You’ll want to walk up with the creep wave to lay down ultimate on the open side of turrets to zone people off, and if they have a lot of wave clear, maybe even wall them off to protect the creeps so your ADC can get a few shots off on turret with a wall and Anivia ult between them and the enemy. On the side inner and inhib turrets especially, if you place down anivia ultimate and a wall, it becomes exceedingly difficult for the enemy to initiate on you while still retaining followup from his teammates with that much separation.

Combos

This is probably the hardest part about playing Anivia, and also the most rewarding. Autos aren’t listed, but you should be using them as filler.
QE – Basic combo. To have a higher chance of landing Q, fire it from FoW, or when they are going for lasthits
ER – Once 6, use this to harass without committing a stun.
WQER – The easy version of the Anivia combo, but less effective. Wall off behind somebody who’s retreating, fire Q in the direction they are headed, E and lay down ult.
QWER – The hard version of the Anivia combo, but extremely effective. Fire Q towards somebody. Wall off the direction they are headed such that the AI will bring them back towards the projectile. R as far away from you as you can, and keep chasing because most likely they will still have the chilled debuff when you can fire E again.

Matchups

Easy

Annie, Brand, Heimer, Karthus, Lux, Morg, Ori, Ryze, Swain, TF, Veigar
All of these matchups you should at minimum go even in, and generally cannot punish your weak early levels too hard. Dodge skillshots, play safe and none of these are losing matchups. TF can be very scary for your side lanes because you won’t be able to follow, but it’s not a hard matchup. Ward well, and 1v1 these mids have fairly low kill potential if you don’t screw up. For some of these you might just need to resort to pushing the lane repeatedly at post-6 to win the matchup(swain, ryze, annie most notably)

Medium

Cass, Diana, Fiddle, Katarina, Kassadin, Kennen, Khazix, Leblanc, Lissandra, Malzahar, Syndra, ADC mids, Ziggs

Be wary of picking Anivia into these mids, as they enter the danger zone in terms of matchups. While some of them are winning matchups early on, they present very high danger whether it be through burst, Crowd control, roaming, mobility or even just making life hell early on by pushing ridiculously hard. I generally wouldn’t pick Anivia into these matchups by choice, although they are playable.

Hard

Ahri, Fizz, Lee Sin, J4, Pantheon, Zed, Gragas

These champions all have something in common. Strong early game, excellent dueling, and mobility(can be either to outplay/juke your skills, or just kill everybody else on your team while you’re still ramping up). Don’t pick into these matchups, they’re difficult to say the least. In conjunction with a decent jungler they will pretty much always win 2v2 unless you get a 2 person stun, and are legitimate kill threats on you at almost any point during laning phase.

Junglers

In general you don’t want to pick Anivia when the other team has strong ganking junglers. You’re a slow, squishy and very inviting target, especially if the laner can follow up. You don’t really want to see an opposing Elise, Zac, J4 or LS because they can all very easily initiate from very long range and almost certainly force a flash. Some junglers can also be pretty rough due to the strength of their ganks(naut, sejuani, Rammus), although a well placed stun can be quite good at deterrence.

Waiting for S4 changes.

Last Update 8/21/2013

arthur

United Kingdom488 Posts

January 02 2012 19:24 GMT

Okay...

1. Always start boots + 3 pots. Always.

2. Never pick anivia vs cassi or karthus, your slow move speed and your slow animations make it really easy for them to land there Q on you. Never pick anivia vs Kassadin for obvious reasons. Pick Anivia vs everyone else.

3. Archangels... Real? That items garbage. You will have blue buff for 75% of the game, and if you can't manage your mana that other 25%, well practice.

The item build you should use:

boots > catalyst > roa > hextech > sorc shoes > rabadons > voidstaff > wota > most suitable defensive item > merc treads.

Obviously some tweaks can be made, you have ap top get wota faster, they stack magic resist get void faster etc... But avoid archangels, and stick to these items.

I'd also use flat ap quints and ap/level blues. You have 1.0 ratio Q+E and 0.25 per sec on your R, you cant afford not to get flat ap quints.

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

January 02 2012 21:20 GMT

On January 03 2012 04:24 arthur wrote:
Okay...

1. Always start boots + 3 pots. Always.

2. Never pick anivia vs cassi or karthus, your slow move speed and your slow animations make it really easy for them to land there Q on you. Never pick anivia vs Kassadin for obvious reasons. Pick Anivia vs everyone else.

3. Archangels... Real? That items garbage. You will have blue buff for 75% of the game, and if you can't manage your mana that other 25%, well practice.

The item build you should use:

boots > catalyst > roa > hextech > sorc shoes > rabadons > voidstaff > wota > most suitable defensive item > merc treads.

Obviously some tweaks can be made, you have ap top get wota faster, they stack magic resist get void faster etc... But avoid archangels, and stick to these items.

I'd also use flat ap quints and ap/level blues. You have 1.0 ratio Q+E and 0.25 per sec on your R, you cant afford not to get flat ap quints.

Archangel isn't bad on anivia. Rushing Archangels is bad, but getting it isn't. Archangels provides the largest single source of AP in the game and Anvia can really use the mana pool. She also charges it up extremely fast. If you're going to get archangels it's best as a 5th or 6th item.

InvaderUK

225 Posts

January 02 2012 21:49 GMT

Archangels is like the last item I make as I've still got a tear in my inventory. But I'd prioritise any other AP items before that as tear usually is enough manapool once its stacked anyway.

Alzadar

Canada5009 Posts

January 02 2012 22:30 GMT

How do you figure Anivia charges a Tear quickly? You only use one spell to clear an entire wave, and your other spells have significant cooldowns and they're not spells you want to throw away either.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

January 02 2012 22:42 GMT

On January 03 2012 07:30 Alzadar wrote:
How do you figure Anivia charges a Tear quickly? You only use one spell to clear an entire wave, and your other spells have significant cooldowns and they're not spells you want to throw away either.

her ult counts x2, her q counts x2 if manually detonated, and if you r+q to insta kill a wave, you have easily enough time to go kill wraiths or wolves or both for more stacks + gold&exp. Even getting tear after deathcap, it'll charge up to +5-600 with ease because lategame you use q for poking a lot, and r just for positional control. Getting it before deathcap can be dicey because it does delay big damage by a lot, but usually it'll be +1000 by endgame easily.

Navi

5286 Posts

January 02 2012 22:44 GMT

Long post incoming.

People need to be more open minded in this forum, I see too many people being like "THIS IS HOW YOU DO X EVERY SINGLE TIME" as of late

Anivia has extreme flexibility in item choice. Archangel's seems to be looked down upon extremely for whatever reason - there are scenarios where it is viable to get before deathcap. Anivia's base mana regen at level 18 is 17.8, and her base mana is 1211. Tear of the goddess gives 7 mana regen: archangels gives 25. If you are able to consistently get blues and keep them, then deathcap after RoA is indeed optimal because deathcap is so strong as an item. However, not every game plays out that smoothly, and having to play without blue buff or any significant source of additional mana and mana regen is suboptimal and indeed gamebreaking in matchups against another dominant AP with wave clearing potential (gragas etc.) who have less issues managing mana or have a team with better blue control. In these scenarios, getting a tear or even finishing archangels before deathcap is viable, as having a completed archangels is superior to having deathcap components in midgame fights. Anivia has a gamechanging skill in her w, so comebacks are always possible with its appropriate use.

RoA and deathcap are core on her, as an AP mana hog who scales doubly from HP with her passive up. Aside from that, she has a large number of viable choices. WotA, Archangels, Void Staff, DFG and banshees and other various defensive items are all strong on her. She also has a lot of flexibility in boots choice - Anivia benefits even more than other APs from mercs in that she is likely to survive beyond the initial CC that it reduces and she benefits from the mres in both forms, and in general aims for a lategame with void staff (fairly easy with good csing). Sorcerer's boots offers one of the strongest damage increases for a low price along with increased movement, as it does for all APs. She is also one of the APs who can get swifties without getting flamed. The additional 20 movement speed that swifties offers over other boots2 options you puts your movement speed higher than that of most enemies (notably other ADs and APs). This additional movement speed allows Anivia to catch up and wall fleeing or distant enemies as well as to kite incredibly hard with the slows from her ult and her q.

The swifties option was prevalent in season 1 when some of the best Anivia players played her frequently (jiji, manyreason and co). With some of the new champions and the increased numbers of dashes in the game, it has become less popular, but is still viable, especially versus teamcomps with less escapes.

Runes are also very flexible. mpen for reds is fairly straightforward, but everything else can vary. The older mass mpen page with flat mpen blues and quints allowed for increased damage over AP pages for early levels against opponents who did not rune mass MR while allowing for strong damage against squishies while getting swifties, and is the runepage I would run if I planned on getting swifties / mercs. Anivia benefits from hp/lvl on yellows doubly because of its interaction with her egg. She benefits from ap and ap/level as do all APs. Movespeed quints are an interesting option, but if I wanted that movespeed I would probably get it from the utility tree's 2nd tier (while depending on playstyle, I believe that Anivia playing optimally shouldn't be running out of mana at early levels, and past level 6 3 mp5 is usually not gamebreaking). Besides, you rune and itemize to go beyond a certain movespeed threshold (moving faster than your opponents lol), and the only way to really guarantee this as Anivia is to get swifties anyway.

Something that you should probably expand on is playstyle. Pre 6 I have seen some players play extremely aggressive with q + e, flash, and ignite to secure early first bloods, and more passive gameplay using q e as counter-harass. I personally feel that playing very aggressive is only good if you really outclass your opponent in the mindgames and mechanics of landing skillshots. Given a strong opponent who doesn't get creep blocked and can dodge well, this playstyle often screws yourself over if their champion can take advantage of you when your mana pool is low or has extremely fast cast animations.
Playing defensive on the other hand is more flexible as well as a way to secure some baseline of farm for yourself before you get to instaclear status. When an opponent goes for harass with spells or autoattacks, their animation is usually enough to land a q if you can launch it when they begin the animation as the hitbox is fairly large as mentioned in the OP. In trades of q-e, anivia is hard to match in damage given her double damage mechanic, especially at levels 3 and 5 (in a similar vein to the way how zilean is one of the only others who essentially uses two level 2 / 3 spells at those levels, it does a LOT of damage). Anivia's autoattack (600 range) is one of the longest, so if you can get csing with her down, she becomes a very potent and consistent laner with a passive playstyle.

And although it may be very obvious, for newer Anivia players, you can use e and then activate r immediately over an opponent as the e's double damage will activate even if it is cast while they are not frosted as long as the ult reaches the opponent while the e particle is in the air. This is good harass with blue buff and a potent finisher.

barbsq

United States5348 Posts

January 03 2012 07:25 GMT

Not an anivia player, or hell, even an AP mid player (easily my worst matchup) but i'll just poke in and say that a rule of thumb that kinda stuck with me (dun remember where i got it from) was that as long as you got AA after roa, it was well worth it in terms of cost efficiency. You also have to want the mana. Those were the conditions i remember.

InvaderUK

225 Posts

January 04 2012 01:27 GMT

Navi makes alot of really good points above, I'd never really thought of going AA staff first if I can't secure blue earlygame but I think its something I might try out a bit in the future.

I think the aggressive playstyle pre-6 isn't very good against decent players as your damage is entirely dependent on hitting a very slow skillshot in lane. Against most decent players they will manage to avoid your Q and counter harass early which leads me to play passively in lane with anivia.

Not much has been said on Wall so far this post, which is probably one of the greatest CC spells in the game, in any forced positioning such as when a team is posturing for dragon or baron, you can cut off 1 or 2 approaching enemies at the chokepoint entrances to jungle and split their team entirely.

Frolossus

United States4779 Posts

January 04 2012 01:34 GMT

#10

you get two charges for your ult and your Q

Akinokaze

Australia326 Posts

January 04 2012 02:15 GMT

#11

What are your thoughts on Rylai's vs RoA? 35% slow (since Rylai reduces aoe slow to 15%) on R seems like a pretty good trade for the mana you lose out on.

edit: always forget that q will have a 35% slow as well with pretty decent range

Frolossus

United States4779 Posts

January 04 2012 02:21 GMT

#12

rylais is terrible on anivia imho
you already have enough slows/CCs at your disposal to to your job and anivia probably benefits more from the mana on rod than a 15% slow

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

January 04 2012 07:14 GMT

#13

On January 04 2012 11:15 midnight.tokyo wrote:
What are your thoughts on Rylai's vs RoA? 35% slow (since Rylai reduces aoe slow to 15%) on R seems like a pretty good trade for the mana you lose out on.

edit: always forget that q will have a 35% slow as well with pretty decent range

Rylai's is worse in basically every way than RoA. Without RoA you'll run oom pretty fast even with blue buff, and without it you'll be completely ineffectual without other mana items. You also don't get any sustain when laning from the catalyst proc.
The slows don't stack as much as you think. it's going to be a grand total of 28% slow for AoE and 40% slow from frostbite applications of rylai's slow. While rylai's proc on frostbite is nice, there are other items I'd much rather have even in my 5th and 6th slots.

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

January 04 2012 08:13 GMT

#14

Don't quote me on this but I'm prettyyyy sure that Ryalis slow doesn't stack with Anvia's own slows...even if it does it's not going to increase the slow amount by much.

Navi

5286 Posts

January 04 2012 08:31 GMT

#15

slows do stack, but the strongest slow is applied first and then further slows are applied at a weakened percentage (i think by a flat percentage, 65% came up in a thread when i typed in slow stacking league of legends http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1487578)

while anivia does benefit doubly from HP, that also means amount of HP at which getting further HP is less efficient than armor / mres is reached much quicker than every other hero when her passive is up. many other damage items are more useful overall for her (wota for team and self in sustained fights, void and dcap for pure damage, rod and AA for efficiency when fully charged) and individual MR/armor survivability items provide more survivability overall (banshee and hourglass), and she doesn't benefit from the cc greatly, so she doesn't want it.

NEOtheONE

United States2233 Posts

January 22 2012 19:52 GMT

#16

I also always start boots + 3 health pots, unless I am confident that i can land some early harass, and I'll switch out one health pot for a mana one so I can get an extra Flash Frost. I play Anivia a lot differently than most people, mainly because I refuse to use flash on the principle of the matter. For non-ranked games I substitute teleport, while in ranked I'll either grab ghost or stick with teleport if the enemy jungler doesn't have a fear or stun. I also play Anivia very differently in pubs than I do in ranked. In pubs, I am a huge fan of boots of mobility. In pubs you generally do not need much in the way of magic pen, and as I have runes for magic pen, I'd rather have the ability to chase and dodge. I play Anivia in pubs as a do not get hit champ. I will stun, wall, and ult you so that you never hit me, and the speed advantage of boots of mobility means I will get away.

For ranked I'll play a lot more like guides say to. So not much to add there.

I do want to comment on Anivia + Sejuani. I witnessed first hand early this morning how disgusting of a combo they make. Sejuani stuns them with Glacial Prison and applies the frost status which means Anivia gets a free Frostbite (at 2X damage) and Flash Frost. Add in the Glacial Storm for the DoT and a halfway decent wall, and you have a fairly easy double kill or better. Throw in an Ashe for overkill and the enemy team is going nowhere. Anivia and Sejuani probably have the best synergy I have ever seen between two champs.

gtrsrs

United States9109 Posts

January 22 2012 20:16 GMT

#17

anivia's E will not do double damage on frost effects applied by other champions, that was patched out over a year ago i think

NEOtheONE

United States2233 Posts

January 22 2012 20:31 GMT

#18

On January 23 2012 05:16 gtrsrs wrote:
anivia's E will not do double damage on frost effects applied by other champions, that was patched out over a year ago i think

Sure did not seem like it last night, regardless, having stationary champions and Anivia free to R+Q+E still means those champs are screwed.

dooraven

Australia2820 Posts

January 23 2012 00:05 GMT

#19

I do want to comment on Anivia + Sejuani. I witnessed first hand early this morning how disgusting of a combo they make. Sejuani stuns them with Glacial Prison and applies the frost status which means Anivia gets a free Frostbite (at 2X damage) and Flash Frost. Add in the Glacial Storm for the DoT and a halfway decent wall, and you have a fairly easy double kill or better. Throw in an Ashe for overkill and the enemy team is going nowhere. Anivia and Sejuani probably have the best synergy I have ever seen between two champs.

You haven't seen Anivia + Jungle Alistar then, it's beyond retarded. Alistar knocks back, anivia stuns + e, aliztar pulverizes, anvia ignites and e's again = guranteed kill. Froggen and Snoopeh do this so so much.

NEOtheONE

United States2233 Posts

January 23 2012 07:18 GMT

#20

On January 23 2012 09:05 dooraven wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well as I have yet to see a jungle Alistar, I obviously have not seen this, but I shall make sure to try it with a friend now.

Eishi_Ki

Korea (South)1667 Posts

January 23 2012 09:07 GMT

#21

On January 23 2012 16:18 NEOtheONE wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well as I have yet to see a jungle Alistar, I obviously have not seen this, but I shall make sure to try it with a friend now.

Should watch Snoopeh, he does it all the time and he's pretty darn good at it

CruxCrownTrigger

United States4 Posts

January 24 2012 17:56 GMT

#22

Hello. Pretty new to the League forums on TeamLiquid and was wondering if you were going to include some general skillshot theory for Anivia. I played Anivia during Season 1 and just started (playing) again (still exploring newer characters).

I remember seeing a particularly helpful picture that showed obvious skillshot exits for Q and just thought it'd be really helpful to include for Anivia (or maybe just general skillshot theory? I haven't seen a thread like that yet. Or would this be more mentally-driven through understanding the logic behind player choices).

I was also wondering if placing her Ult right on the opponent would be best and most efficient. Is there an amount of time that makes up for the mana cost versus damage of her ult rather than a Q or even E?

I remember Q->E->Ult->Wall, or even Ult->Q->E->Wall and OP stated you could E->Ult and land after frostbite hits. Is there a reason you would launch E first before your ult? Just wondering if there was any other obvious reasons than for surprise damage.

And finally another question (Sorry I have so much)-- I remember some comments I've gained from playing Anivia and that was it'd be better to be a "Mother hen" with her. Rather than grabbing kills, it's better to just farm because she can't carry as well. Just wondering if that's still encouraged.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

January 24 2012 20:19 GMT

#23

On January 25 2012 02:56 CruxCrownTrigger wrote:
Hello. Pretty new to the League forums on TeamLiquid and was wondering if you were going to include some general skillshot theory for Anivia. I played Anivia during Season 1 and just started (playing) again (still exploring newer characters).

I remember seeing a particularly helpful picture that showed obvious skillshot exits for Q and just thought it'd be really helpful to include for Anivia (or maybe just general skillshot theory? I haven't seen a thread like that yet. Or would this be more mentally-driven through understanding the logic behind player choices).

I was also wondering if placing her Ult right on the opponent would be best and most efficient. Is there an amount of time that makes up for the mana cost versus damage of her ult rather than a Q or even E?

I remember Q->E->Ult->Wall, or even Ult->Q->E->Wall and OP stated you could E->Ult and land after frostbite hits. Is there a reason you would launch E first before your ult? Just wondering if there was any other obvious reasons than for surprise damage.

And finally another question (Sorry I have so much)-- I remember some comments I've gained from playing Anivia and that was it'd be better to be a "Mother hen" with her. Rather than grabbing kills, it's better to just farm because she can't carry as well. Just wondering if that's still encouraged.

Skillshot theory is more practice than anything else. I have a replay somewhere of me flashing to get range on 2 people who were low, shooting Q through a wall and stunning them both for a double kill after seeing them running about 2 seconds previously. In terms of landing Q, it's best to wait for the opponent to commit to something like lasthitting or casting before launching it. It's the slowest skillshot in the game, and while it has a large hitbox, it's still easily dodged.

Ult isn't really mana efficient in terms of damage on a single target. It's used more for getting the chilled debuff than anything.

E>ult is quick harass that doesn't commit everything. In about half a second you can deal 25-30% of an average mid's health just by being in range for E. By launching E before Ult, you only need to be in range for a moment, no need to chase down the enemy to deal the full damage of E. Ultimate has an effective range far beyond the 650 of E. Using full combo is only good for securing a kill IMO, because it is extremely mana heavy and leaves you vulnerable without any CD's up.

She can absolutely carry. I don't know where people get the idea that she can't. You can get kills precisely because she farms so well. So long as you keep building damage throughout the game, you don't ever fall off.

CruxCrownTrigger

United States4 Posts

January 25 2012 17:11 GMT

#24

She can absolutely carry. I don't know where people get the idea that she can't. You can get kills precisely because she farms so well. So long as you keep building damage throughout the game, you don't ever fall off.

Thanks for the replies! I was always a bit wary of not getting kills with Anivia, so that saves me a bit of worry.

NEOtheONE

United States2233 Posts

January 25 2012 17:59 GMT

#25

On January 25 2012 05:19 Amui wrote:

Show nested quote +

I totally agree that she can carry. The main thing that stops her from carrying is an AD carry on your team gets a little fed first and then proceeds to repeatedly KS you. I've had a lot of 2 or 3-2-10+ matches lately simply for this reason. But, it's not a bad thing because it usually means your team is ahead.

If you want to get good at avoiding ganks, try playing some normals without using flash for awhile. This forces you to rely on her stun, slow, and wall to avoid being ganked. If you can generally avoid dying to ganks without flash, you will be in that much better shape when you have the option to flash because you will rarely burn it to dodge ganks and can stick to using it offensively.

Akinokaze

Australia326 Posts

February 17 2012 07:02 GMT

#26

This might be a noob question but is opening with chalice viable against an opponent who doesn't open dring? With good blue control and timing this obviously wouldn't be ideal but what about other times?

Edit: By opening Chalice I literally mean starting with Magic Mantle or Meki but I guess a standard opening into Chalice is fine

Lokrium

United States131 Posts

February 17 2012 07:22 GMT

#27

Never buy chalice on anivia. If you are having a lot of trouble getting blue, just buy a tear. Tear is better because it builds into archangels in the late game and gives you the same level of blue-buff independence. Catalyst + tear, along with intelligent use of your spells should give you enough mana.

Akinokaze

Australia326 Posts

February 17 2012 09:17 GMT

#28

True, the fact that tear builds into archangels is definitely important, but I disagree that it gives "the same level of blue-buff independence".

Okay let's do some live math craft here:

+ Show Spoiler +

Say you get chalice/tear at lv6 (edit: I think a chalice opening could realistically be completed at 5min or the 10th wave)

Base mp5@lv4
Anivia: 7+(6*0.6) = 10.6
MP5/lv Seals: 9*(0.065*6) = 3.51
MP5 Mastery lv3: 3
Total base: 17.11

w/ Tear
Base + 7 = 24.11

w/ Chalice
Base + 7.5 + %mp missing = 24.61 (up to 49.22)

w/ Blue buff
Base + 25 + 1% max mana* = 17.11 + 25 + (0.01*647) = 48.58

*Max mana@lv6
Base: 257 + (53*6) = 575
Mana Mastery lv3: 12*6 = 72
Total: 575 + 72 = 647 (997 w/ Tear)

w/ Blue buff+Tear
w/Tear + 25 + 1% max mana*= 24.11 + 25 + (0.01*997) = 65.08

w/ Blue buff+Chalice
w/Chalice + 25 + 1% max mana* + %mp missing = 24.61 + 25 + (0.01*647) = 56.08 (up to 112.16)

We can see here that Tear alone is far inferior to just Blue. Catalyst would be a bit hard to factor in to these figures but keep in mind the gold cost (Chalice 890, Tear 995, Catalyst 1325). The question is: how much is too much? Would the increased mp5 allow you to be more aggressive, potentially netting you more gold in the long run?

Lokrium

United States131 Posts

February 17 2012 10:03 GMT

#29

You're right in that chalice does provide a certain level of blue-buff independence that tear doesn't, which is certainly valuable. The big reason that I, and most people for that matter, don't like chalice is because it delays your real damage by too much. When I play Anivia, I go catalyst-rod-deathcap. Getting either tear or chalice will a lot of the time make you fairly useless for the critical midgame dragonfights, as it delays your damage items. In the late game, if you are winning, then you will have blue almost all the time anyway. If you are losing, you'd much rather have a tear than a chalice because you can upgrade it to Archangels.

Basically, I don't like getting either of them, because it delays your damage too much. I feel like tear is better because it provides enough mana if you play smart, and it has the powerful option of archangels in the lategame. Chalice feels like an option that you get when you are losing that makes you lose more.

I used to run anivia with tear-cata-rod-deathcap, and it was just too slow compared to getting an earlier rod and earlier sorc shoes. I haven't personally used chalice on anyone except Galio, so if it works for you then keep at it. I just don't think it's worth it.

edit: as for it allowing you to be more aggressive in lane, tear lets you do the same thing until your mana buffer runs out, meaning that you have to be smarter with when you base. But if you can get your base timings right, tear provides just as much utility as chalice.

RouaF

France4120 Posts

February 17 2012 10:24 GMT

#30

So what about warmog/tears anivia ? Isn't it the way froggen plays her ? I've always found this build pretty funny as it scales well with the egg but i'm not an anivia expert in any way :D

Akinokaze

Australia326 Posts

February 17 2012 10:28 GMT

#31

Froggen goes mejai/warmog I believe. Egg gives you a bit of insurance against losing your mejai stacks so I guess it could work with a good team that can keep you alive.

dooraven

Australia2820 Posts

February 17 2012 12:03 GMT

#32

Froggen goes Tears-Warmongs-Mejias or Spirit Vessage - Wota - Tears on Anivia in proper tournament matches.

But that's just Froggen, I've seen him go sword of the occult, bloodthirster and manamune on anivia and still go legendary with her.

rightstuff

United States160 Posts

March 28 2012 15:12 GMT

#33

I was wondering what other Anivia players are doing to compensate for the blue buff nerf. I used to have no mana problems once I got a catalyst, but now I find myself hurting for mana a bit more. I've taken to not using Q to farm creeps at all and relying on my ult and autos. I've also started buying catalyst, boots 1, tear, rod where I used to go catalyst, boots 1, rod, parts of death cap. It feels like damage is pretty delayed this way, but it does offer a lot of buff independence provided you manage your mana.

I don't know that this is entirely a bad thing, but I feel like it prevents Anivia from roaming as easily when you can't clear the creep wave in an instant reliably without going OOM. Also, it makes fighting aggressive AP champs like Leblanc harder because you can't cut their CS as much by safely shoving the lane into their tower.

Has anyone tried going (shudder) chalice forR and mana regen? Or am I just playing incorrectly?

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

March 28 2012 15:53 GMT

#34

Skipping Q is something of a mistake. Q's damage is more mana efficient than R unless you have no AP whatsoever, so as long as you're hitting the melee creeps twice and the ranged creeps once you'll actually save mana (assuming you normally leave her ult up until all the minions are dead). The difference in efficiency only increases as you get AP or skill up Q.

rightstuff

United States160 Posts

March 28 2012 17:12 GMT

#35

How would I go about hitting melee creeps twice and the ranged creeps once? I feel pretty unsafe if I'm behind their minion wave, especially if I have Q on cd.

If you mean hit the melee units twice with Q and let R handle the ranged guys it certainly pushes the lane like I want, but I run into mana management trouble early-mid game with the new blue buff. I'm sure everyone knows how vulnerable Anivia is with low mana and a Q on cd.

Frolossus

United States4779 Posts

March 28 2012 17:34 GMT

#36

On March 29 2012 02:12 rightstuff wrote:
How would I go about hitting melee creeps twice and the ranged creeps once? I feel pretty unsafe if I'm behind their minion wave, especially if I have Q on cd.

If you mean hit the melee units twice with Q and let R handle the ranged guys it certainly pushes the lane like I want, but I run into mana management trouble early-mid game with the new blue buff. I'm sure everyone knows how vulnerable Anivia is with low mana and a Q on cd.

i would double hit Q the melee creeps and R the ranged ones, your mana is gonna run out even with blue buff and tear + cata thats just how it works if you try to aggressively farm by pushing like that

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

April 04 2012 06:56 GMT

#37

On March 29 2012 02:34 Frolossus wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is probably the best way to do it tbh. I usually ult once I can get the ranged minions all inside ultimate range, and then double proc Q all the melee's for a guaranteed 6 every time without fail. At most follow up with an E on the cannon creep and all set to go. After about 5-6 games with the blue nerf, I've just taken to clearing 3-4 waves while picking up wraiths/wolves as much as I can until I have ~300 mana left, and then just finishing off the wave as fast as possible before going back for more mana. Done correctly you won't miss more than 2-3 CS with boots, and out of 4 waves, that's not too significant.

I've experimented with going boots3->cata -> 2x dorans->RoA and it's okay. Quite a bit tankier and far stronger early to midgame and is about equal for laning without blue buff, but doesn't lend itself to building a charged archangels lategame very well. The games I used that build though I usually ended up with something like RoA boots Dcap Voidstaff banshees and would finish with hourglass if I could for a more tanky Anivia.

After seeing froggen/scarra play going tear first though, I wonder how they get away with it. Feels so incredibly squishy against a lot of mids without the HP buffer of catalyst or dorans.

heroyi

United States1064 Posts

April 05 2012 18:35 GMT

#38

anyone got tips on playing vs brand other than requesting help from the jungler?

I feel like even at my potential I can only defend myself to a certain point :/

also does anyone else feel like Anivia is starting to fall behind on the ranks as a ap carry(I feel like there are stronger picks than her)?

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

April 05 2012 19:30 GMT

#39

On April 06 2012 03:35 heroyi wrote:
anyone got tips on playing vs brand other than requesting help from the jungler?

I feel like even at my potential I can only defend myself to a certain point :/

also does anyone else feel like Anivia is starting to fall behind on the ranks as a ap carry(I feel like there are stronger picks than her)?

open boots+3, play passively if you can, and stay behind creeps so you don't get stunned if possible. Juke pillars as best you can. I personally use MR blues and just try to survive til 6. Brand's cooldowns are even longer than Anivia's though so if he spends them clearing creeps I walk up and try to Q(optional) E+auto him. It's not a lot of damage, but it's good trade in this matchup IMO. It's a hard lane to say the least though. Getting mercs isn't a horrible idea either. So long as Brand doesn't kill you early though you outscale him pretty hard unless he ults 5 people or something like that.

Anivia's been going out for a lot of lower players because she's by far the most mana inefficient clearer in the game. Ever since blue nerf she oom's just clearing creeps until around 1500 mana and her early laning is pretty frustrating. It's just mid-lategame her 1.0 ratios make her so incredibly powerful in conjunction with her wall.

sob3k

United States7572 Posts

April 05 2012 20:04 GMT

#40

no way is Anivia falling behind as a pick, she is getting a huge amount of tournament play right now with Manyreason and Froggen just destroying with her.

Strykemard

168 Posts

April 12 2012 04:13 GMT

#41

Against brand you need to be able to outplay him. The majority of his damage depends on his W and you cannot let him hit you with it. However, if you are trying to make him stay in your R, you might be a sitting duck for him. Try to poke him down with your Q and then go for the kill with R. You might want to go for a situation where you wont directly die at his burst but his passive might be a risk. That way, he'll fight without running away and you have your egg.

Sufinsil

United States760 Posts

April 23 2012 18:09 GMT

#42

Having quite a bit of fun playing support Anivia. Stun, wall, decent harass dmg (early). The best is the egg bait. They come at you hard burning ignites and exhaust while your AD wails on them.

Eiii

United States2566 Posts

April 23 2012 19:56 GMT

#43

Ok, I just opened this thread out of boredom but support anivia sounds like something super fun that I'm definitely going to have to try as soon as possible.

Wall+AD carry is probably beastly, why have I not seen this before?!

InvaderUK

225 Posts

April 23 2012 19:57 GMT

#44

On April 24 2012 03:09 Sufinsil wrote:
Having quite a bit of fun playing support Anivia. Stun, wall, decent harass dmg (early). The best is the egg bait. They come at you hard burning ignites and exhaust while your AD wails on them.

fully endorse support anivia.

its actually pretty decent vs non sustain lanes like leona/nunu/janna. Wall also one of the best midgame support skills ever in that its so useful and you don't need any items. Q is the same and your ulti slows AD huehueheue

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

April 23 2012 19:59 GMT

#45

Mana issues make support anivia pretty impractical.

Frolossus

United States4779 Posts

April 23 2012 21:59 GMT

#46

On April 24 2012 04:59 Juicyfruit wrote:
Mana issues make support anivia pretty impractical.

this and also she offers virtually no incentive to pick her for support over alistar or leona
in terms of general utility, anivia is better suited mid because you can do both damage and have tons of utility at the same time

InvaderUK

225 Posts

April 23 2012 23:23 GMT

#47

You can build philo and chalice and you got no mana probs. Obviously mid anivia is better but she serves well as a support too, a bit troll but its effective.

I can think of at least one incentive over both alistar and leona, her stun doesnt require her to be right next to the enemy for one.

Vaporized

United States1471 Posts

April 23 2012 23:50 GMT

#48

i played against a support anivia the other night. they pushed us to our tower and then got ganked. anivia is so damn squishy. i started 6/0 that game as trist. i had soraka on my team vs corki anivia. it was a bit wierd at first, but ultimately i dont think its that great.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

April 24 2012 00:08 GMT

#49

- Anivia has both the lowest health and lowest health scaling in the game. This is very bad because in bot, you probably aren't going to be able to get under tower to egg safely.
- You can run oom very easily with RoA+blue on mid farm/levels. Support Anivia doesn't get any of this.
- You aren't taking advantage of her scaling. Other supports have generally crappy ratios. Anivia has 1.0 scaling on 2 skills. You could either play mid and be able to burst an AD for over 2k late game, or do less than 1/3 that as a support anivia.
- No sustainable zone control. Mid anivia should have the mana pool to ult siege a tower for 5-10 seconds at a time, and still have the mana to fight late game. Support anivia doesn't.

InvaderUK

225 Posts

April 24 2012 09:07 GMT

#50

I think people have misinterpreted me, I never said she was the best support, but she is pretty decent vs a non sustain support/ad lane. Also not sure why people are comparing to her playing mid, rather than the other supports lol.

Her mana problems are lessened by philo/chalice, and comparing it to mids usage of mana is weird because you won't be using ult to farm creeps constantly. Her zone control is still pretty good for a support with her wall and R, but again you shouldn't be constantly using it like Mid anivia.

I should have at least 1 or 2 replays of me playing support aniv vs janna lanes in 1700-1800 elo if people want to see them

Sufinsil

United States760 Posts

April 24 2012 10:22 GMT

#51

Mid Anivia you are casting a lot more than you would bot. I never have mana issues no more than any other support. I have a tear or cata mid game for mana issues for ulting.

You are playing much like if you played support/tanky mid. It is not your job to kill things late game. Its your job to disrupt, wall, slow.

xiaoW

Netherlands284 Posts

April 27 2012 11:29 GMT

#52

It happened to me several times where I get matchups where they camp mid and deny my blue

When it happens I would go 2 dorans ring/tear instead of the early cata/tear

I wonder if that is the best respone in terms of itembuild to this?

InvaderUK

225 Posts

April 27 2012 11:36 GMT

#53

I think chalice is better than 2doran as you'd rather have the increased mana reg over the ap and health in these lanes. chalice into tear is a pretty nice build for these situations where blue is denied.

Need to do that maths on chalice vs tear but im pretty sure chalice is quite advantageous. MR vs HP is also the difference in defence, MR better for high trade, HP better for high burst. I'll do the maths today if i get bored at work again

Skroach

United States85 Posts

April 30 2012 07:15 GMT

#54

I'm not high elo (1550), so I'm curious to know if anybody who knows more about Anivia could tell me if the way I build seems legit or if it only works because i'm playing against bad people:

I build the catalyst as usual, but instead of upgrading it to RoA I build my deathcap. I then turn my catalyst into BV instead of RoA, and get void staff. Sometimes I'll get void staff before banshee's veil, depending on how the game turns out. Deathcap, void staff, and BV are ALWAYS my first 3 items, but after that there is a lot of variance. My most common choice is building glacial shroud on her because the CDR and mana are so helpful on her. The frozen heart aura is not important because her ult does that job already, but the glacial shroud is super cost efficient and very noticable on teams that run ad bruiser top and jungle. I've really liked opting for BV instead of RoA because my midgame is much more beast, and I feel way harder to kill with a BV, and never seem to lack damage.

Example build progression :
[boots + pots]
[catalyst]
[merc treads/sorc shoes]
[deathcap]
[BV/glacial shroud depending on game]
[void staff]
After that solid core RoA/Wota/Hourglass/Guardian Angel (changes game to game)

Does this kind of build work only because I'm playing lower skilled opponents? Or do you think this would work at high ELO?

HazMat

United States17077 Posts

April 30 2012 07:24 GMT

#55

That's how casters used to be built. You'd get cata for laning phase and then rush Deathcap. Later on you'd get turn cata into bveil. I think your veil is too early... maybe if you're vs Kass or LB or something but I wouldn't rush it everygame. Have you tried WOTA? It's quite nice on Anivia.

InvaderUK

225 Posts

April 30 2012 09:24 GMT

#56

Your build is legit, one of the most standard builds has been tear>cat>deathcap for the longest time now.

Your mid to late game item decisions also pretty solid, I'd argue to try out Wota before defence if youre not having trouble as it's retarded strong for you and your entire team (you usually get it around when dragon fights start too so this timing is right), but if you taking alot of damage BV is smart.

Frolossus

United States4779 Posts

April 30 2012 16:52 GMT

#57

starting to enjoy rod>boots>shurelyas a lot on anivia right now

Sabin010

United States1892 Posts

May 15 2012 14:30 GMT

#58

I started playing LoL back around Christmas of 2010, and Anivia was the first champ I used. After her free week was up, I bought riot points and picked her up (6300 ip felt like so much), and exclusively played Anivia from 1-30. I got to the point where I would play her in any duo lane, jungle, mid, top it didn't matter the match up. I was going to hit my q's, and get fed. Some time around the Nocturne release, I stopped player her because of how OP his ganks were upon release (it was basically like playing against old eve as in any aggression after Noct hits 6 and you're dead, except you couldn't even ward against it) . Naturally if you can't beat them join them, and I started playing a ton of Noct. I consider Anivia to be my "ace in the hole", a go to champion I pull out when ever I'm looking for a win.

In the hundreds of games played with her, I have built her every way I could think of. Standard Death Cap rush: 2 doran's, sorcs, hat, and stack more ap/survivability from there. RoA first ap with or with out lichbanes. Ultimate Bravery with 3 snowball items. AD with Triforce first. AD with dorans blade stacking. Tanky DPS with manamune, frozen heart, B-veil, warmogs, atmas. I'm sure there is at least a few other troll builds that I've won games with. After doing all of this there are a few things that stick out.

Say you're facing a heavy/early burster squishy mid (Lelanc), buy a chalice, run mr/ level in your blues. Most players using these champs are using runes/masteries, and sorc shoes to hit that 30 magic pen mark. I recently had a game vs Leblanc mid, Riven, Mundo, Ashe, and I think it was Janna support. I decided to run mpen reds, hp/5 yellows, mr/lvl blues and flat ap quints. I farmed up a chalice, and HoG then got Merc's. I bought Mejai's around level 9 because Le Blanc was unable to kill me, while I could kill her just for trying to farm. I ended up getting a Randuin's because their Riven was getting pretty fed, and with it I was sitting at 100+ mr and armour. Randuin + Anivia ult = 48% attack speed reduction + a 48% slow, so if Riven/Mundo ever jumped on me I could pop randuins and ult e create some distance wall q stun and another e.

Mana / level or flat mana runes aren't required to get first blood against an idiot in lane. If you don't miss your moves Anivia will do enough damage with out them (unless you're up against some one like soraka with 50+ mr lvl one, another person stacking early mr, or another person with incredible sustain). Some games you can run the mana runes if you know you can be very aggressive because of the enemies slow jungle or poor ganks (maybe pick up first blood, and continue to harass the enemy off the cs after they return before your first buy). You can buy Chalice/ Tear/ Catalyst/ 2dorans/ Philostone (gold per 10 is underrated), and get blue buffs for mana regen for later in the game.

Skill order should be qeewereqewrqwqwrqw. This will give you much bigger walls faster. Level 1 wall is ok, but level 2 wall at level 10 is worth more in team fights than the extra 30 or 60 (depending on 2 hit or not) damage on your q. If the bigger wall allows a team mate to get one of their moves off, its going to be better for the team in general. The extra second of time it takes for an enemy to get into a team fight can potentially win the fight. The extra point will allow you to keep some one in the ult longer (cutting their auto attack dps more), the extra point will seal off more exits/entrances than level 1 wall. Utility from high level walls is under rated, and the added damage and cdr from leveling q is over rated.

You can disagree with me, these are just my opinions, but Anivia is my favorite champion. I'm going to continue to explore new builds, and possibly even hybrid set ups once I can afford to get some double penetration runes, just for funzies of course.

Sponkz

Denmark4564 Posts

May 15 2012 14:53 GMT

#59

So everyone's maxing Q over wall? Seems like i must be doing something wrong. I usually start lvl'ing W at 8 and max it second.

Sabin010

United States1892 Posts

May 15 2012 15:20 GMT

#60

I max them both out evenly. Wall is op in team fights man. If a tower goes down early, or for some other reason I think we're about to have a big team fight. I will get lvl two wall at 8 for the team fights.

Frolossus

United States4779 Posts

May 15 2012 15:20 GMT

#61

On May 15 2012 23:53 Sponkz wrote:
So everyone's maxing Q over wall? Seems like i must be doing something wrong. I usually start lvl'ing W at 8 and max it second.

i still prefer wall over Q cause i can make bigger plays off of walls than a higher ranked Q mid-game

NEOtheONE

United States2233 Posts

May 15 2012 15:23 GMT

#62

On May 16 2012 00:20 Frolossus wrote:

Show nested quote +

i still prefer wall over Q cause i can make bigger plays off of walls than a higher ranked Q mid-game

I go back and forth depending on whether i am playing arranged or solo queue. In arranged I favor Wall over Q. However, I will favor wall over Q in solo if we are getting chased.

NEOtheONE

United States2233 Posts

May 15 2012 15:29 GMT

#63

On April 24 2012 09:08 Amui wrote:
- Anivia has both the lowest health and lowest health scaling in the game. This is very bad because in bot, you probably aren't going to be able to get under tower to egg safely.
- You can run oom very easily with RoA+blue on mid farm/levels. Support Anivia doesn't get any of this.
- You aren't taking advantage of her scaling. Other supports have generally crappy ratios. Anivia has 1.0 scaling on 2 skills. You could either play mid and be able to burst an AD for over 2k late game, or do less than 1/3 that as a support anivia.
- No sustainable zone control. Mid anivia should have the mana pool to ult siege a tower for 5-10 seconds at a time, and still have the mana to fight late game. Support anivia doesn't.

I see your complaints and raise you a Alistar Anivia kill lane with AD carry going mid. It happened in ranked in solo queue cause our AD demanded mid, so I was like wtf, but we'll try it. I ended up getting 4 kills fairly early thanks to our Alistar. This was a couple months ago, so you won't see it in my match history.

Sponkz

Denmark4564 Posts

May 15 2012 16:03 GMT

#64

On May 16 2012 00:20 Sabin010 wrote:
I max them both out evenly. Wall is op in team fights man. If a tower goes down early, or for some other reason I think we're about to have a big team fight. I will get lvl two wall at 8 for the team fights.

Exactly wall is OP. So why lvl your Q, when it's only use in mid/late is the fact that it stuns and makes your E deal more damage? I'm kinda semi-ok with anivia, but i'm having trouble figuring out if Q is really worth it and also how many points in W is required to make it "op".

Sabin010

United States1892 Posts

May 15 2012 16:24 GMT

#65

Leveling up Q will reduce its cooldown, and in some lanes when Q is on cd you're a sitting duck. No pun intended.

Navi

5286 Posts

May 15 2012 20:16 GMT

#66

1 level of w is enough for most small skirmishes, in solo queue I would rarely level it over Q past level 1
however against people without gap closers etc a wider wall can often change the dynamic of the game greatly, people like singed, garen, rammus etc are often ruined by a wide wall whereas a small one would often do little to hinder their charges
likewise, if you are focusing on farming (instaclearing mid and taking wraiths etc) additional levels of Q help
wide walls are also nice if you find yourself often fighting in jungle (hard contesting of jungle control between junglers etc and would help against their jungler)
more often than not though it is usually the placement of the wall itself rather than its size that determines its efficacy

BlasiuS

United States2405 Posts

June 02 2012 00:35 GMT

#67

Anivia free week, so I tried her out.

I'm curious what the best item build currently is, now that Athene's Unholy Grail is out. I tried it in my game, and it worked very well (11/6/18), against a brand no less. I feel like it's core now, all the stats are amazing for Anivia, and chalice only costs 890, less than 2 doran's. Unholy grail + blue + masteries = 39% CDR, perfect.

I went:

boots 3 -> chalice -> catalyst -> sorc shoes -> RoA -> unholy grail -> deathcap -> void staff -> (defensive item) (the game ended before i could get 6th item)

I liked it a lot, but my AP sucked for almost the entire mid-game due to late deathcap. But I'm not sure how else to build it, if I delay RoA by too much it's not as useful, and I need the early chalice for mana. However it seemed to work out well.

I feel like RoA/deathcap/void staff/sorc boots are core. So for me it comes down to chalice -> unholy grail vs. tear -> AA staff. They both are very good. AA staff gives more mana, and more AP than unholy grail, but unholy grail gives MR, CDR, and more mana regen, especially if you're snowballing, and even moreso if you have blue buff, since the passive is %-based. But if you don't get blue buff, perhaps tear is better.

brolaf

291 Posts

June 02 2012 00:41 GMT

#68

I would delay the RoA, it is still good the thing is - in mid game the great trading power and power level in small skirmishes wtih the heavy AP of NL rod makes it superior IMO, so i would get it after chalice and leave catalyst&stuff for later

Bladeorade

United States1898 Posts

June 02 2012 02:47 GMT

#69

I was under the impression a ton of AP was nice on anivia but not necessary which is why the Cata/Tear build worked so well as it gave her the base mana she needed.

Gaslo

Finland951 Posts

June 25 2012 22:36 GMT

#70

Tried anivia on some normals, and she seems super fun. Only problem is, that hitting Q is so super hard for me, that i think when i go to rankeds i wont hit it once in any match. Luckily my normal elo is so low (only used it for leveling and drunk playing with friends) that there they wont really even try to evade them.

Oh, and wall over Q? I have to give it a try. Q just seems to be so much damage if you can hit it, that it seems stupid not to take it second. If you hit both procs its 360 + 1AP ratio, that has to be one of the highest damage normal spells in the game? Well, ill play until i feel comfortable with that Q in normals, and then give her a try in rankeds...

Bladeorade

United States1898 Posts

June 26 2012 00:10 GMT

#71

On June 26 2012 07:36 Gaslo wrote:
Tried anivia on some normals, and she seems super fun. Only problem is, that hitting Q is so super hard for me, that i think when i go to rankeds i wont hit it once in any match. Luckily my normal elo is so low (only used it for leveling and drunk playing with friends) that there they wont really even try to evade them.

You need to lead them with Q in a certain direction and then wall them into that direction. So launch Q->WE. But in lane I pretty much harass with E->R for the second proc, if they seem retarded I'll then go for a QWE when they are still slowed but hitting Q is hard unless you are sitting on them. Which is another think you can do. Use E-> R, run to them while they are slowed for an easy Q -> E and if you want to be done with aggression use W etc. Theres so many ways to use her spells.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

June 26 2012 04:12 GMT

#72

On June 02 2012 09:35 BlasiuS wrote:
Anivia free week, so I tried her out.

I'm curious what the best item build currently is, now that Athene's Unholy Grail is out. I tried it in my game, and it worked very well (11/6/18), against a brand no less. I feel like it's core now, all the stats are amazing for Anivia, and chalice only costs 890, less than 2 doran's. Unholy grail + blue + masteries = 39% CDR, perfect.

I went:

boots 3 -> chalice -> catalyst -> sorc shoes -> RoA -> unholy grail -> deathcap -> void staff -> (defensive item) (the game ended before i could get 6th item)

I liked it a lot, but my AP sucked for almost the entire mid-game due to late deathcap. But I'm not sure how else to build it, if I delay RoA by too much it's not as useful, and I need the early chalice for mana. However it seemed to work out well.

I feel like RoA/deathcap/void staff/sorc boots are core. So for me it comes down to chalice -> unholy grail vs. tear -> AA staff. They both are very good. AA staff gives more mana, and more AP than unholy grail, but unholy grail gives MR, CDR, and more mana regen, especially if you're snowballing, and even moreso if you have blue buff, since the passive is %-based. But if you don't get blue buff, perhaps tear is better.

I like that path - AP really is optional with the great base damage that Anivia has. Mana means more than AP to her because you can just endlessly E-R harass and push all day. Might want the Catalyst first, though - for the Health sustain.

Well, not really optional. She has great AP scaling - but without constant mana to back it up, you aren't going to be able to get the most out of her. And her base damage is damn good anyway, and more importantly - her SUSTAINED damage is also way better than most APs - only Karthus and Cassi really can compete/surpass her there. Sustained damage means it's more important that you can keep throwing out spells / sustaining ulti than it is to make your burst combo the best possible - thus, delayed deathcap.

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

June 26 2012 07:20 GMT

#73

On May 16 2012 00:29 NEOtheONE wrote:

Show nested quote +

AMUI CALL YOUR HAND IS STRONGER

I was watching pobelter play anivia today (my pick for best anivia, only one to ever beat my cho mid pre-6) and he just rushed rod with basic boots which I agree with.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

July 14 2012 08:18 GMT

#74

Added a section with small notes on matchups. While Anivia doesn't get hard countered by mids, some matchups are harder than others, although aggressive junglers are more scary for her than the mids, because of how slow Anivia is. Generally blow flash first, ask questions later, because lowest base HP doesn't play well against junglers like Alistar or nautilus where you can get egged before being able to move again.

Also if OGN is anything to go by, Anivia nerfs are definitely a possibility. She's definitely one of the hardest AP's to get good with, but she is probably #1 in terms of common competitive AP's by single target burst, around 3-4th ranked AP by overall damage and #1 in terms of teamfight control(arguably most importantly).

dae

Canada1600 Posts

December 06 2012 01:49 GMT

#75

So with the new s3 items, anivia seems to be very very strong.

Both tear and cata are cheaper, meaning your core gets finished faster.

Flask is just amazing for sustain in lane.

Tear stacks amazingly fast, like when I went tear/sorc/cata/roa/aa, my tear was stacking before I finished aa, and i was pretty fed and farmed too.

Seraph + barrier makes you almost undivable, as its like 1200ish shiled (at full mana) later in the game.

She just seems so strong atm.

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

December 06 2012 02:07 GMT

#76

Liandry's Torment is also pretty stupid on her.

Navi

5286 Posts

December 06 2012 02:22 GMT

#77

liandrys pls

dae

Canada1600 Posts

December 06 2012 02:52 GMT

#78

Wait... does Liandry's deal the double damage to every1 standing in anivia ult.... That would be so completely broken..

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

December 06 2012 04:45 GMT

#79

I'll update the thread sometime after my finals.

And yes, I think liandry's applies on every tick of ult for pretty absurd damage. Sadly it doesn't really fit into her build path until later though. RoA/Tear is best gotten early,

You'd probably want to open bottle+2pots+faerie. Back for tear+ruby crystal+boots and then just farm til RoA. Dunno what to get from there, could go the Dcap void route or liandry's for huge siege/antisiege potential. Can't touch anivia ult without taking 3.3% magic damage per sec on top of the normal ult damage.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

December 08 2012 11:32 GMT

#80

Okay I updated items and masteries for season 3, and cleaned up some of the wording. Still needs some more work though.

NEOtheONE

United States2233 Posts

December 10 2012 08:21 GMT

#81

There are only two types of boots I have ever built on Anivia and they are Sorceror's and Boots of Mobility. If you are that concerned about surviving lane phase isn't it better to not get hit to begin with?

Also Homeguard upgrade on boots is pretty glorious. It allows you to defend turrets fast and gets you back out to lane quickly. Homeguard is the main reason why I would still consider the idea of Boots of Mobility on Anivia. Teleport + homeguard is borderline OP and making the slowest champ in the game into an insane ganker every 3 minutes will really surprise the enemy team.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

December 10 2012 10:43 GMT

#82

On December 10 2012 17:21 NEOtheONE wrote:
There are only two types of boots I have ever built on Anivia and they are Sorceror's and Boots of Mobility. If you are that concerned about surviving lane phase isn't it better to not get hit to begin with?

Also Homeguard upgrade on boots is pretty glorious. It allows you to defend turrets fast and gets you back out to lane quickly. Homeguard is the main reason why I would still consider the idea of Boots of Mobility on Anivia. Teleport + homeguard is borderline OP and making the slowest champ in the game into an insane ganker every 3 minutes will really surprise the enemy team.

There's almost no way to position yourself such that you will never take damage mid-lane if the other guy wants to trade. The people I build defensive boots on tend to already be extremely bursty. Merc's vs veigar for example gives you a huge window where he doesn't have enough points in stun to land meteor, and you can just chase him after every stun to trade back. If you opened cloth already vs a bruiser mid, I'd rather get tabi for cheap to move faster and so I can move on with my build without worrying about dying

Frolossus

United States4779 Posts

December 10 2012 12:59 GMT

#83

On December 10 2012 19:43 Amui wrote:

Show nested quote +

the trick is to play passively and wait for them to shove first then when the wave is just in front of your tower then clear it
its simple and you take no damage unless they super over extend

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

August 21 2013 07:48 GMT

#84

Updated OP. Should be the last update before S4 comes around. Rewrote and reformatted much of the OP with added knowledge from going up almost a full league, updated with new items, and made it all look a bit nicer. Thoughts/corrections are welcome.

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