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On October 08 2011 07:46 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2011 07:35 Navi wrote:
you combo in her autoattacks inbetween her spells....?
lol
her autoattack damage is amazing because of her passive
if she got to sit and whack and get the same damage output then itemizing for aspd would be more rationalized
but she has to build passive stacks for it
she has decent base aspd (she gains 3.5% per level, quite high) and with greenpot it makes chaining in autos inbetween spells perfectly reasonable
this is a build that i have had success with and feel is fairly optimized for my style at least. her numbers are fucking amazing and without a feeding team and farming up well i have never had a problem playing her this way. i feel playing her super tanky is just a crutch for bad positioning and being able to walk into 5 people and do no damage and just hop around. the fact that she scales with BONUS AD on all her skills makes this seem obvious to me.
please at least test the build out in a game before talking about its cons, and if you feel that you or your team misplayed significantly repeat until you feel confident that there weren't many of them. I have played it out and have had really really great success with it. Including a penta :D I tried a game with some aspd. It was considerably easier to spell-auto-spell-auto, etc... cause there's much less delay from animation. However, you do have to give up a considerable amount of AD so it's probably not worth it.
Well, you can try to make a Black Cleaver later in the game. The armor pen will not be that optimal because you already have a LW, but it give ASP and AD.
Or even use a Ghostblade, all the stats are good ( but lack ad a bit )and the active make your combo way easier to execute with the auto in beetwen.
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Ive been tryin out Jungle Riven. She needs to gank early and often. I believe my ability sequence is:
QWEEQRQWWQRWWQEREE
And usually i go
Cloth+5pot --> vamp sceptre --> wriggle's --> boots --> merc's --> warmogs --> atma's --> bloodthirster --> infinity edge
Riven is actually pretty tanky w/o warmogs, but I like the extra hp
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What's the rationale behind putting more than one point into Q? And uhh... explain that cracked out skill order.
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United States33802 Posts
I don't think she needs to gank, but she's one of the best early gankers, so I figure why not? But if you can't get one off, don't worry about it and just keep farming. She can counter jungle pretty good too if you know where they're at.
Edit: that skill order is wack. R > W > E > Q and start with QWEE is pretty much accepted as the best way to go.
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I carried with navis build !
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United States37500 Posts
Should be max'ing W first, lane or jungle.
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I can't get myself away from liking Brutalizer -> Youmuu's Ghostblade at some point in the game. During a team fight I find it best to just spam my way through Q to get to that disruption as quick as possible. The active on the Ghostblade let's me spit down my Runic Blade charges in an extremely quick fashion, pushing out burst no one seems to expect.
Thanks to your advice though, I've been trying out Infinity Edge. I like it a lot, but after the Bloodthister/Ghostblade combo that I can't get myself away from. I've tried going Bloodthirster -> Infinity Edge and I find myself missing the Ghostblade too much. It also seems like the Armor Penetration, CDR, and cheaper price make up for not having the Infinity Edge so early.
In a typical game, I've been doing Wriggles, Doran's Blade, Mercury Treads, Brutalizer, Bloodthirster, Ghostblade. At that point I'd go either Guardian Angel, Infinity Edge, or Last Whisper depending on how it goes. I think people underestimate Riven's auto attacks with Runic Blade charges. It's nearly every game I've played where someone is confused as to how I did so much damage. Not to mention Wriggles gives you insane Yorick levels of sustain.
Above all... Riven is just so much fun!
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brutalizer before BT is definetly a valid option as she benefits fully from all the stats on bruta (cdr AD and arpen) but imo benefits less from GB (aspd and movespeed not necessary lategame)
if i can ever farm it though I would almost always have a BF instead of a bruta, but one of its plusses is that its easy to farm up the components comparatively.
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United States33802 Posts
@Ayestes
As for your opening build, I don't think you need a DBlade if you opened Wriggle's. If you already got a Wriggle's, the lifesteal and from DBlade is negligible and you would be better off saving for your next big item. 100 health is nice, but by the time you have Wriggle's and boots, you'll be moving toward midgame, and DBlade is an early game item for Riven.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 09 2011 03:06 Navi wrote:
brutalizer before BT is definetly a valid option as she benefits fully from all the stats on bruta (cdr AD and arpen) but imo benefits less from GB (aspd and movespeed not necessary lategame)
if i can ever farm it though I would almost always have a BF instead of a bruta, but one of its plusses is that its easy to farm up the components comparatively.
I just don't feel like having Brutalizer does that much for you midgame. Most of the guys that get Brutalizer do it to gank aggressively, or push their dominant early game control (Garen, Panth, etc.). With Riven, you want to be farming through that stage of the game. You don't really get to push ganks/fights out of Brutalizer, so it doesn't really seem worth it if you're just going to go back to lane and farm with it.
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What's the bread n' butter jungle route for Riven?
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United States33802 Posts
On October 09 2011 04:25 Node wrote:
What's the bread n' butter jungle route for Riven?
I do either Wolves > Wraiths > Double Golems for a safe starter before a bluepill or gank
Or I'll do Double Golems > Wolves > Blue. Probably not the best route, but it works for me.
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With 5 flat ad marks and 3 ad quints, 4 arpen reds, armor yellows, and blue of your choice, you can do any clear you want with cloth5pot. She can do a blue start full clear in about 4 minutes flat with 21-0-9. Not as fast as the speedy junglers like noc amumu and udyr, but probably a better gank than amumu's after the first clear. Because she can do a full clear, it implies that she can do more specialized starts; whether that is fast gank with 3 and red and no blue or fast levelling clear, that's up to user preference.
If nothing else reaching the required farm to do an AD build on riven is much harder from the jungle than from a solo lane.
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I've been playing Riven since she first came in, in Ranked games, and I've been loving it. Currently have 70% win rate on her and 6 to 1 KDA Ratio over 50 games.
Your skill build should always be W > Q > E... then max W first then Q. If you are forced to play passive in the lane, max E first.
There are two things I like doing on her: laneing bottom with a support player, and jungling. She is a terrible, terrible top solo and can only be good vs very passive solos. On bot lane, you will be forced to play aggressive. If you try to be too passive, you will get out harassed. However, when you hit level 3 on Riven, it's easy to get last hits. You must use your dash to get up to creeps and use that damage shield to soak harassment from ranged champs. But overall, you must try to be aggressive. If you can manage to do well on her in the lane, you will dominate the game. I generally prefer to lane as Riven if I am positive that my lane partner is very good. Otherwise, where Riven truly shines is the jungle.
Riven plays a lot like Yi in the jungle. She has extreme gank potential and can clear the camps very fast. She can also invade the enemy jungle easily and totally fuck someone's jungle path. I usually get a leash on the double golem when the game starts, and go immediately for a level 2 gank. Then I will go wraith, wolf, buy, get golem for mid or get red for myself, then I will mostly focus on ganks and invading the enemy jungle. Of course, this is all subject to change depending on the circumstances, but if you need a general outline, then that is what you should do. At level 6, you become a particularly potent ganker.
Riven is also an extremely powerful late game carry. She is a great melee carry in general because she can perform very well throughout the entire game (outside of the early laning phase, although she can be good there too).
For items in order,
Laneing: Doran shield, boots, brutalizer/phage (depending on if you need more hp or if you are doing well and need dmg), phage/brutalizer, merc treds (could get earlier if needed), bloodthirster, frozen mallet, infinity edge, atmas, then finish ghostblade.
Jungling: Cloth armor and 5 hp pots, wriggle lantern, boots, brutalizer/phage (depending on if you need more hp or if you are doing well and need dmg), phage/brutalizer, merc treds (could get earlier if needed), bloodthirster, frozen mallet, infinity edge, atmas, then finish ghostblade.
This build gives you very high damage as well as good survivability. Atmogs build is very terrible on Riven as it makes you AD suffer quite a bit throughout a large portion of the game and thus you will be very useless until super late game. My build is much better as it makes you strong throughout every portion of the game and has you hitting like a truck late game. Your base damage is around 430 if I recall correctly late game (im 1 week banned currently, so I can't check atm), not counting your ult... in which it gets up to over 500. That's not counting crits (atma's and infinity edge are made for eachother). That's also not counting her passive, which is where a large portion of her damage comes from. Late, it's your auto attack that is doing most of the damage, but you still need to stringing skills together with auto attack in order to maximize damage.
Overall, Riven is an awesome hero and is very underrated. I can't tell you how many games I go in to where people say "PLEASE DON'T PICK RIVEN" or "DON'T PICK RIVEN, DO IT FOR THE TEAM!", where I end up carrying my entire team. She takes more skill than a lot of other champions in this game, but overall is an excellent hero.
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On October 09 2011 10:41 -Trippin- wrote:
I've been playing Riven since she first came in, in Ranked games, and I've been loving it. Currently have 70% win rate on her and 6 to 1 KDA Ratio over 50 games.
Your skill build should always be Q > W > E... then max W first then Q. If you are forced to play passive in the lane, max E first.
There are two things I like doing on her: laneing bottom with a support player, and jungling. She is a terrible, terrible top solo and can only be good vs very passive solos. On bot lane, you will be forced to play aggressive. If you try to be too passive, you will get out harassed. However, when you hit level 3 on Riven, it's easy to get last hits. You must use your dash to get up to creeps and use that damage shield to soak harassment from ranged champs. But overall, you must try to be aggressive. If you can manage to do well on her in the lane, you will dominate the game. I generally prefer to lane as Riven if I am positive that my lane partner is very good. Otherwise, where Riven truly shines is the jungle.
Riven plays a lot like Yi in the jungle. She has extreme gank potential and can clear the camps very fast. She can also invade the enemy jungle easily and totally fuck someone's jungle path. I usually get a leash on the double golem when the game starts, and go immediately for a level 2 gank. Then I will go wraith, wolf, buy, get golem for mid or get red for myself, then I will mostly focus on ganks and invading the enemy jungle. Of course, this is all subject to change depending on the circumstances, but if you need a general outline, then that is what you should do. At level 6, you become a particularly potent ganker.
Riven is also an extremely powerful late game carry. She is a great melee carry in general because she can perform very well throughout the entire game (outside of the early laning phase, although she can be good there too).
For items in order,
Laneing: Doran shield, boots, brutalizer/phage (depending on if you need more hp or if you are doing well and need dmg), phage/brutalizer, merc treds (could get earlier if needed), bloodthirster, frozen mallet, infinity edge, atmas, then finish ghostblade.
Jungling: Cloth armor and 5 hp pots, wriggle lantern, boots, brutalizer/phage (depending on if you need more hp or if you are doing well and need dmg), phage/brutalizer, merc treds (could get earlier if needed), bloodthirster, frozen mallet, infinity edge, atmas, then finish ghostblade.
This build gives you very high damage as well as good survivability. Atmogs build is very terrible on Riven as it makes you AD suffer quite a bit throughout a large portion of the game and thus you will be very useless until super late game. My build is much better as it makes you strong throughout every portion of the game and has you hitting like a truck late game. Your base damage is around 430 if I recall correctly late game (im 1 week banned currently, so I can't check atm), not counting your ult... in which it gets up to over 500. That's not counting crits (atma's and infinity edge are made for eachother). That's also not counting her passive, which is where a large portion of her damage comes from. Late, it's your auto attack that is doing most of the damage, but you still need to stringing skills together with auto attack in order to maximize damage.
Overall, Riven is an awesome hero and is very underrated. I can't tell you how many games I go in to where people say "PLEASE DON'T PICK RIVEN" or "DON'T PICK RIVEN, DO IT FOR THE TEAM!", where I end up carrying my entire team. She takes more skill than a lot of other champions in this game, but overall is an excellent hero.
Would you mind adding your elo/server and actually adding/discussing things in the OP instead of posting your own miniguide? (which states things completely different from every decent riven player i saw)
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Ty for this guide. Before I would run warmogs or frozen mallet and just spin around in a teamfight and realize I wasn't doing anything. This build actually makes a lot more sense and changed my opinion of riven from UP to pretty viable.
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On October 09 2011 06:55 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 04:25 Node wrote:
What's the bread n' butter jungle route for Riven? I do either Wolves > Wraiths > Double Golems for a safe starter before a bluepill or gank Or I'll do Double Golems > Wolves > Blue. Probably not the best route, but it works for me.
I tried this last game... died to both Wolves and double golems... most embarrassing game of my life. Guess it serves me right for having AP runes -.-
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United States47024 Posts
Honestly, I feel that even if you wanted to build tanky DPS Riven, Warmogs->Atmas or Mallet->Atmas would still be the wrong way to go, because someone with a low-CD shield gets so much more out of resist stacking than HP. It's just like on Warwick (except instead of heal, you have a shield) or Udyr--you stack resists, because high-throughput healing/shielding effects means that your survivability scales asymptotically off resists, and only linearly off HP.
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On October 10 2011 01:39 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2011 10:41 -Trippin- wrote:
I've been playing Riven since she first came in, in Ranked games, and I've been loving it. Currently have 70% win rate on her and 6 to 1 KDA Ratio over 50 games.
Your skill build should always be Q > W > E... then max W first then Q. If you are forced to play passive in the lane, max E first.
There are two things I like doing on her: laneing bottom with a support player, and jungling. She is a terrible, terrible top solo and can only be good vs very passive solos. On bot lane, you will be forced to play aggressive. If you try to be too passive, you will get out harassed. However, when you hit level 3 on Riven, it's easy to get last hits. You must use your dash to get up to creeps and use that damage shield to soak harassment from ranged champs. But overall, you must try to be aggressive. If you can manage to do well on her in the lane, you will dominate the game. I generally prefer to lane as Riven if I am positive that my lane partner is very good. Otherwise, where Riven truly shines is the jungle.
Riven plays a lot like Yi in the jungle. She has extreme gank potential and can clear the camps very fast. She can also invade the enemy jungle easily and totally fuck someone's jungle path. I usually get a leash on the double golem when the game starts, and go immediately for a level 2 gank. Then I will go wraith, wolf, buy, get golem for mid or get red for myself, then I will mostly focus on ganks and invading the enemy jungle. Of course, this is all subject to change depending on the circumstances, but if you need a general outline, then that is what you should do. At level 6, you become a particularly potent ganker.
Riven is also an extremely powerful late game carry. She is a great melee carry in general because she can perform very well throughout the entire game (outside of the early laning phase, although she can be good there too).
For items in order,
Laneing: Doran shield, boots, brutalizer/phage (depending on if you need more hp or if you are doing well and need dmg), phage/brutalizer, merc treds (could get earlier if needed), bloodthirster, frozen mallet, infinity edge, atmas, then finish ghostblade.
Jungling: Cloth armor and 5 hp pots, wriggle lantern, boots, brutalizer/phage (depending on if you need more hp or if you are doing well and need dmg), phage/brutalizer, merc treds (could get earlier if needed), bloodthirster, frozen mallet, infinity edge, atmas, then finish ghostblade.
This build gives you very high damage as well as good survivability. Atmogs build is very terrible on Riven as it makes you AD suffer quite a bit throughout a large portion of the game and thus you will be very useless until super late game. My build is much better as it makes you strong throughout every portion of the game and has you hitting like a truck late game. Your base damage is around 430 if I recall correctly late game (im 1 week banned currently, so I can't check atm), not counting your ult... in which it gets up to over 500. That's not counting crits (atma's and infinity edge are made for eachother). That's also not counting her passive, which is where a large portion of her damage comes from. Late, it's your auto attack that is doing most of the damage, but you still need to stringing skills together with auto attack in order to maximize damage.
Overall, Riven is an awesome hero and is very underrated. I can't tell you how many games I go in to where people say "PLEASE DON'T PICK RIVEN" or "DON'T PICK RIVEN, DO IT FOR THE TEAM!", where I end up carrying my entire team. She takes more skill than a lot of other champions in this game, but overall is an excellent hero. Would you mind adding your elo/server and actually adding/discussing things in the OP instead of posting your own miniguide? (which states things completely different from every decent riven player i saw)
I'm 1600 bouncing between 1550ish range and up to 1700 elo on the US server. I'll post a screenshot in two days when I am unbanned, but unless it is absolutely necessary I'd rather not given my full summoner name.
I also don't see the problem in posting how I play Riven in a thread dedicated to the champion. Especally considering I am adding to the discussion, as I am posting what I think is the correct way to play her.
Also, why not instead of questioning my credibility, you actually just try what I said yourself and see how effective it is? You are dismissing everything I said because you haven't personally seen someone decent saying or perhaps doing similar things without actually seeing or trying it in action. Kind of reminds me a lot of Starcraft and how most players will just copy builds from pros and claim all other builds are trash just because pros aren't doing them. Then a pro does one of these builds everyone claims to be "trash", and it is all of a sudden a pivotal part of the metagame.
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what makes you think she is a terrible top solo? i have beaten many garens and the like in lane with her.
the lack of early survivability in your builds perhaps lead to your bad solo top experiences.
maxing q, while having more potential max burst in one exchange, is worse in the midgame because your cds on w and e are relatively long. E and W's scaling is similar to q's (better if you only get two q's on the enemy in terms of damage mitigated / dealt) but their cds scale per rank whereas q's doesn't.
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EPT
