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Noocta
France12578 Posts
I like jungling on her better than laning tho. On the other hand, i had a game where i was laning against a Xerath, and i find in general that laning against an AP with her is painfull. Cattching them is usualy hard because of their range and their hard cc ( stun ) and playing passively isn't really what Riven do. :/ Any thought ? | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
She can play passively just fine. Just stay out of skillshots as described, have pots/lifesteal, and if the ranged gets near you you can jump on them and out-damage them pretty easily at most levels. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On October 07 2011 21:58 Requizen wrote: While she's much better in lane than in jungle (and needs the farm for her build), I think it really speaks as a strength that she can pull off the same effectiveness in jungle as she can in lane. She's a character that, even with the same rune page and masteries, can just swap out Teleport for Smite and jungle for your team if no one else wants to do it. She's not my first jungle choice if I was picking the perfect comp, but if she's on a team and there is no jungler, it's npnp. You say in your guide that your only defensive item is GA. You get a lot of EHP from AD for sure, but is getting something like FMallet, Phage, or even just a Giant Belt something you consider? I feel too squishy with lower HP, but then again I never build GA so I'm not sure it's defensiveness. people underestimate exactly how much survivability she gets from AD the fact that you get a 1:1 AD shield that scales with your defensive stats on a 6 second pre cdr cd means that if you get 3 shields over the course of the fight you essentially have a 1 AD : 3 HP passive (like jax's) and any more than that and you've gone over that efficiency. If you get GA you get 180-200 armor depending on runes and 130-140 mres depending on runes yet again. Not bad for only 2 defensive items (3 if counting wriggles). Her baseline survivability is great, and positioning yourself correctly with your e usage is what determines how survivable you are. If you eat all the cc and damage at the very beginning of a fight of course you're going to die early, with minimal positioning effort you can solve many of these issues. Kind of like how some people liked to build vayne tanky and abuse her w (while she was strong enough at release that she could do this successfully, building squishy with good positioning was proven to be a lot more successful; while this analogy isn't perfect 'cause riven isn't even that squishy with GA, just dont go initiating 2v5s and you should be okay) try out the build and post replays of difficulties and i will watch i think my lolreplay just patched lol | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
they're not used to playing a role that isn't clearly pre-defined Especially if you're getting more than 1 bloodthirster you have to be really wary of dying ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X3QgZ.jpg) i generally don't die very much when i play riven time dead is time during which you can't be farming | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 08 2011 02:06 r.Evo wrote: What is your reasoning for TP > exhaust/ignite? Exhaust means you can 1n1 lategame, it also eliminates the possibility of being kited down really hard. Being exhausted by someone like Jax means he can eat you all day. If you go for "I'm the strongest lategame carry ever", I think TP is a weird choice. TP on Riven works the same way as TP on Jax. It creates incredibly punishing midgame situations where the enemy team has to choose between giving up objectives, and letting you farm (and in many cases, teams will be indecisive and posture in awkward situations neither taking objectives nor stopping your farm). At best they have someone with TP, but because Riven outscales anyone else, trading farm with someone else who has TP is better for you most of the time. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 08 2011 04:40 Navi wrote: i think that's the biggest problem people have with her they're not used to playing a role that isn't clearly pre-defined Especially if you're getting more than 1 bloodthirster you have to be really wary of dying i generally don't die very much when i play riven time dead is time during which you can't be farming Ah, if only it was as easy as "dying would suck right now, I choose not to die"  On October 08 2011 05:05 Liquid`Tyler wrote: do you ever take caster minion agro at lvl 1 in order to do your full combo? or is attacking at lvl 1 something that you do only if your opponent somehow gives you a chance? do you wait for them to come in for a last hit on one of your melee creeps and full combo them then? It kind of depends, but as long as you can dodge into a bush, taking aggro isn't the worst thing in the world. Early levels, it's very important to land all 3 hits of your Q to do as much damage as possible (until you get a respectable amount of AD), so I usually wait until they're in range. | ||
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NonY
8748 Posts
without exhaust, i can see how it'd be worth it to take caster agro as long as you're sure you're gonna land the full combo. 5 pots should let you control the lane after the exchange. but im still thinking it's not a great idea to just charge out there and do it. rather wait for them to go for a last hit (assuming they're a melee champ) | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
The better you know your and their limits with exhaust and ignite the less likely you are to die to it. If they dont have exhaust or ignite you can trololol and do whatever the heck you want lol | ||
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Diggity
United States806 Posts
I highly recommend her as a champ, not because I believe that she is incredibly viable, but simply because she is very satisfying to play. Speaking to her role in a match, I believe she was designed to punish solo top bruisers. In 1v1 lanes vs characters like Rumble Singed or Morde she really shines as her mobility allows her hop in and deal damage while her shield allows her to pull out without much pain. This is completely different from other melee dps champs whose primary role is to push out the AD/AP carry or engage and occupy the bruiser. Because her damage (outsider her W) tends to be more staggered she also tends to be less effective as a gap closer even though she has 3 escape abilities. Unfortunately her attack approach is somewhat linear and she does not have a large amount of health (or cloak) like a Xin, Shen or other dash champs. As a result I do not recommend chasing down burst AP or AD champs unless you have completely caught them out of position. Going back to my first comment, she excels most in melee bruiser battles where she can Q-E-W in, stun one or more of the melee champs, attack and then Q out in order to reset the approach. Navi is totally correct (Hi navi!) in stating that her survivability is based highly around her AD. She is an AD caster. Much like Lux, Blitz, Sion etc scaling a huge shield from AP, Riven scales a huge shield from flat AD. The huge difference being is she is not ranged and only semi-burst based (W/R). I do not recommend the dedicated lifesteal approach for several reasons. 1) She does not have a large base hit point pool. 2) She is not a solid stand and fight champion (unlike practically every other melee/dps champ) 3) She does not have a cloak or long distance dash in order to pull out of combat from AP burst champs. 4) With raw AD her shield provides a great deal of staggered survivability. The core flaw I see with Riven (which likely makes her less useful in competitive play) is that while she is strong 1v1 against a melee dps bruiser, durability is entirely dependent on whether or not her E is up. This makes her a prime/easy target for ganks, particularly for heros with strong CC/Stun. Additionally a little bit of early disruption really throws off her entire game. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Right now my biggest issue with OP's build is that riven has terribad attack speed and without itemizing for it it feels like you lose out on a lot of dps since her autoattacks hurt a shitton with her ulti+passive up. but i have no idea how to fit in aspd into her build tho so :\ | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
lol her autoattack damage is amazing because of her passive if she got to sit and whack and get the same damage output then itemizing for aspd would be more rationalized but she has to build passive stacks for it she has decent base aspd (she gains 3.5% per level, quite high) and with greenpot it makes chaining in autos inbetween spells perfectly reasonable this is a build that i have had success with and feel is fairly optimized for my style at least. her numbers are fucking amazing and without a feeding team and farming up well i have never had a problem playing her this way. i feel playing her super tanky is just a crutch for bad positioning and being able to walk into 5 people and do no damage and just hop around. the fact that she scales with BONUS AD on all her skills makes this seem obvious to me. please at least test the build out in a game before talking about its cons, and if you feel that you or your team misplayed significantly repeat until you feel confident that there weren't many of them. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On October 08 2011 07:35 Navi wrote: you combo in her autoattacks inbetween her spells....? lol her autoattack damage is amazing because of her passive if she got to sit and whack and get the same damage output then itemizing for aspd would be more rationalized but she has to build passive stacks for it she has decent base aspd (she gains 3.5% per level, quite high) and with greenpot it makes chaining in autos inbetween spells perfectly reasonable this is a build that i have had success with and feel is fairly optimized for my style at least. her numbers are fucking amazing and without a feeding team and farming up well i have never had a problem playing her this way. i feel playing her super tanky is just a crutch for bad positioning and being able to walk into 5 people and do no damage and just hop around. the fact that she scales with BONUS AD on all her skills makes this seem obvious to me. please at least test the build out in a game before talking about its cons, and if you feel that you or your team misplayed significantly repeat until you feel confident that there weren't many of them. I have played it out and have had really really great success with it. Including a penta :D I tried a game with some aspd. It was considerably easier to spell-auto-spell-auto, etc... cause there's much less delay from animation. However, you do have to give up a considerable amount of AD so it's probably not worth it. | ||
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Nachielous
Jamaica114 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 08 2011 07:15 RogerX wrote: I played straight super tanky DPS with Riven not too long ago (Atmas Impaler being my only source of AD) it was good, owned with a 14/2 score however, she isn't built to be played like this imo so she shouldn't, it just feels strange to play in this manner... Hm... I'm a decent advocate of tanky dps Riven from time to time... but it depends on your comp and your enemy's comp. For standard play and balanced sides, the OP here is probably your best bet. On the other hand, if you're in a situation where you're the only tanky dps type or you feel you need another one (the enemy has more bruisers than normal, wierd shit like that), AtMog's builds work. She works well with pretty much any build as long as there is a moderate amount of AD in there. If you feel that tanky dps fits your playstyle more or your regular friends' comp, go for it. Normally though, go with a high AD build to take advantage of her absurd scaling. | ||
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dignity
Canada908 Posts
I also found that riven can easily 2v1 the top and jungler both once you hit 6 (makes it easier when you have exhaust) since you only really have to bring one down to 1/3 hp and then one shot him with wind slash. Since you have so much aoe, you should have done enough damage to the other guy that you can net the second kill. Between wriggles and your e, you have so much sustainability-to-damage in a fight that it makes it really hard to take you out. Since you are so mobile, you can also opt out of fights extremely easily for when, say, they exhaust you. | ||
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