EPTRanduins/Mercurial Yes
I could see Mercs/BT/BC/Randuins/Mercurial/GA
not in that order necessarily
[Champion] Riven - Page 41
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
Randuins/Mercurial Yes I could see Mercs/BT/BC/Randuins/Mercurial/GA not in that order necessarily | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
I only wish there was an Armor/AD item :\ | ||
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ninjakingcola
United States405 Posts
On December 04 2012 11:01 Requizen wrote: I only wish there was an Armor/AD item :\ Atmas, but it sucks now. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Does it? Isn't it going to be built out of Avarice Blade now? It could be the DFG for bruisers a few months ago. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
GA is really not cost effective anymore, you're paying most of the money for the passive. I'm not sure it's a good part of the core. Sunfire spends too much on health, honestly, and the AoE is really better for tanky people that can sit around and keep it ticking, which you're more go in and burst a squishy to death, unlike Malph or Shen. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
BT will still be core. It's got the most AD, and you want as much as possible. While I'm not sure about BotRK yet, I'm pretty sure that even with the passive it'd have a hard time making up for having 60 less AD. And the active passive both got switched to physical damage in the latest changes, so no free magic damage from it either. GA is really not cost effective anymore, you're paying most of the money for the passive. I'm not sure it's a good part of the core. Sunfire spends too much on health, honestly, and the AoE is really better for tanky people that can sit around and keep it ticking, which you're more go in and burst a squishy to death, unlike Malph or Shen. Fair points all. I agree that the BT is still gonna be core, just not sure if it's going to be a rush. Sunfire is valuable on riven because of the magic damage it does. I know it's not much, but every little bit helps when a couple of the enemy team have randuins or thornmail. The really big thing the new items do is more early game potential, you don't really have to wait till 1650 to get that damage spike. Not only is the BF cheaper, but brutaliser is more viable, as is a straight up vamp scepter since it now includes AD. Even avarice blade might be a thing, though I'm not sure how much of one... | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35163 Posts
I think it's still a tossup between Scimitar and Maw depending on what you need. They give similar hard stats so it all comes down to Maw:"Am I getting bursted?" or Scimitar:"Am I dieing because of CC like dark binding." Maw is also a chunk cheaper and matches Scimitar's AD at 87.5% health. Wardens...wasn't 2 games enough? For early armor, Warden's Mail would probably be the right way to go. Whether or not FH or RO is the way to go, it builds into both, costs less, and a lot of Riven's more difficult matchups get their jollies off of autos. I'm looking at you, Irelier. Which you decide to build into will be a decision that, going Warden's, can be delayed. On the topic of FH or Randuins assuming lvl 18, standard ad/ad/armor/mr(of some sort), and 21/9/0 masteries Effective HP Values vs Physical Damage. FH: 5,869.29 RO: 6,746.74 Difference: 877.45 Our Riven can't repel fire of that magnitude! Granted this doesn't account for the shield, which will perform(as EHP) 20% worse with RO. Lets say we have a fight that lasts 20 seconds. We're also going to include the 10% cooldown from Brutaliser/BC for both. Shield CDs > Shields in Fight FH: 4.2 > 4 RO: 5.4 > 3 FH picks up 1.6(1 because lower cooldown, .6 because +20% per shield from higher armor.) shields, assuming they all break before expiring. The base shield gain from this is 288, reducing the gap to 589.45. To make up that gap though AD scaling, Riven would need(pre ult and requiring dashing directly after ulting to get all 4 shields) a tad over 307. This requires BT(fully stacked), BC and 23ish AD from another source. Assuming a build of Mercs, BT, BC, RO/FH, Pickaxe: an 11,175 gold cost. Until then, from a purely tanky perspective, RO gives Riven better physical protection while also making her more burst resistant against magic damage. Disclamer: I don't do much math anymore and I have an annoying habit of missing something. Feel free to check my math or inquire about what I did where if you feel I done goofed. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
However, I'll probably still end up going FH over Omen. ~590 EHP is a very noticeable difference, but CDR also grants extra abilities (and therefore passive procs). Tankiness and survivability are necessary for someone who's going to be in melee, but Riven's job isn't necessarily to be the tank. She's primarily a damage dealer, and I guess it comes down to whether a) Being able to hop around, stun, proc your passive, and have ult up more often or b) surviving ~1-2 more spells/~2-4 more AD autos is going to allow you to do more damage. Of course, that also depends on your team. If you have like, Shaco jungle, Soraka support, and a standard mage mid (so not like Galio or Diana), you may want to take Randuin's instead since your team lacks significant bulk. It's also more helpful if your team lacks slows, or if the slow synergizes with your team (i.e. AoE comp). I do like that both are viable and you have an option of which to take depending on the game. I don't think we'll have a standard "build path" on her anymore, which is cool. BT will still be core, just for the AD, but early items and second "core" item will probably change on a game by game basis. A note on Maw v Mercurial. I think I like Mercurial more as a pure item (higher stats, cleanse is very strong), but one of the things to note is that Maw has a much nicer build path, in my opinion. Mercurial is nice because you can sit on just QSS or BFS if you need MR and not AD (or vice versa), but Hex is a strong midgame item that gives both and is rather affordable. Rushing Mercurial is probably better if you're getting fed, but I think Maw will be kind of the thing to get in a standard game, especially if you need midgame power that won't wane. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35163 Posts
On December 05 2012 00:34 arb wrote: So i'm clear are we talking about getting Frozen Heart on riven? Yes, Riot still hasn't realized it is one of the strongest items in the game. It's like old Gunblade where it was so strong Riven didn't care about buying the useless stats on it. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On December 05 2012 00:34 arb wrote: So i'm clear are we talking about getting Frozen Heart on riven? That's the way I'm leaning. The thing is, GA used to be all the armor you needed aside from maybe Tabi. Now, GA gives a lot less armor, and the cost is more tied into the passive than the defenses. So if you need Armor, you need to look elsewhere. Your choices are Atma, Sunfire, Randuin, and FH. Sunfire is kind of out, since it's mostly health and the AoE isn't that great on Riven imo. Atma isn't that great since you don't really care about Crit and you're not stacking health for the passive. So in my eyes, it's between Randuin's Omen and Frozen Heart, depending on the situation. I mean, you could probably still do just GA if you don't need a lot of defenses and save the extra couple hundred gold that goes into Omen or FH, but it's no longer really the single defense item that you get on her and nothing else, I think. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
I get playboy for the articles Edit: NVM, runic bulwark is a lot more MR-focused than I realized. Only 30 armor total. Reading is hard. Still, there's some significant utility in the Randuin's activation for riven which FH doesn't really have. | ||
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pfff
Belgium1352 Posts
Basically the idea is 1 13 16 or 0 13 17 (flash + ignite), and abuse dorans start + 1 potion from gold mastery + 1 biscuit + 1 free 60 sec ward. IMO dorans start already was very strong in a lot of matchups, it just left you extremely vulnerable to ganks as you basically have to be ready to all-in him all the time which is incredibly abusable. Basically pressure extremely hard (as you got some really strong lvl 1-2 fight masteries in defense and you are riven with a dorans), constantly going for FB, using ignite as early as possible (summoner cdr mastery + ignite mastery) and relying on your cookie + potion regen to stay in lane for a minute or two. After both of these are gone and your ward is about to expire, you should also almost have him pushed upto his tower, so basically you kill off the wave and go back to buy whatever it is you need in the lane, forcing him to either push back the wave real quickly so he can b (impossible for most champs) or to stay in lane with like no potions left and you just bought. IMO this can easily result in either FB or forcing him to b (allowing you to also push the wave), it also allows you to go dorans start (which makes it much easier to go b early before you have 475+ gold) and you are not gimping yourself superhard with the masteries. Not sure whether 17 or 16 would be optimal, really will depend on whether the 50 gold or so that the mastery gives you on your first B will be worth it or whether the 5 ad from ignite makes the difference (i.e. you need it to win trades) Btw, imo this should work on a lot of lvl 1-3 lane bullies, i.e. darius and xin, which used to be extremely vulnerable to ganks | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
I'm going to be going this to start: http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#7bUMSlqTvgl6Ld Switching points between Hardiness and Resistance based on who I'm laning against. Remember, you don't really value health all that much since you have your shield. Also, Tough Skin is good for trading in lane because you'll block a lot more damage from minions than you think. A single auto from each minion in a wave means you're taking 12 less damage, and you'll take a lot more from ranged minions if you're fighting anywhere near the wave. Riven is all about AD and killing. You're not a tanky champ, if you want to play her to her best. Dorans start is good, though, I'll probably either start DBlade or Longsword, unless I need a Cloth or DShield start against an annoying lane. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 05 2012 05:18 Requizen wrote: If you want to fight, why would you not get any Offensive Masteries? No Arpen, no CDR, no AD, no extra oomph. 5 less damage on autos isn't worth losing out on shields and hitting harder. Wanderer also sucks in lane, since it's only a MS boost when you're not in combat, which starts on getting hit or hitting a minon/champion. Safeguard is also really iffy, very situational and you shouldn't be the one tanking turrets for more than a shot or two anyway. I'm going to be going this to start: http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#7bUMSlqTvgl6Ld Switching points between Hardiness and Resistance based on who I'm laning against. Remember, you don't really value health all that much since you have your shield. Also, Tough Skin is good for trading in lane because you'll block a lot more damage from minions than you think. A single auto from each minion in a wave means you're taking 12 less damage, and you'll take a lot more from ranged minions if you're fighting anywhere near the wave. Riven is all about AD and killing. You're not a tanky champ, if you want to play her to her best. Dorans start is good, though, I'll probably either start DBlade or Longsword, unless I need a Cloth or DShield start against an annoying lane. Are you aware tough skin ONLY affects JUNGLE monsters? Not minions. And perseverence seems iffy. Put those 9 points into the health mastery - Vet scars is as good as it ever was (quite good) especially for early game lane fighting. If you want any flat damage reduction, pick up Unyielding/block (requires 13 points in defense) | ||
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pfff
Belgium1352 Posts
Without these you are completely unable to fight with a dorans blade start, not really an option to propose not getting these because well, then you are just playing standard 21 9 and I would never start dorans then. What I'm saying is that I think 21 9 might or 9 21 might not be optimal at all anymore, 60 second ward early in solo Q is just really really powerful with champs that have very strong early game trades/all-ins. Also, semi-deep offensive doesnt really offer much useful early compared to defensive (assuming 16 points in support) unyielding and block seem pretty strong. Perseverance vs durability and veteran's scars is debatable, but veteran's scars is just a really really strong point. Talking about wanderer and safeguard is a bit stupid as they are obvious placholders, and anyway, wanderer has some use because you only need to get close to him with riven, same as how boots of mobility are very good on junglers not only for getting around the map but also for getting next to heroes. Safeguard is just a good investment for 1 point, taking into account what riven does in a game, I dont really see anything else thats worth that | ||
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