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On November 20 2012 08:04 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 07:31 koreasilver wrote:
Okay guys, Renekton is no longer an AD caster because he has to auto attack to charge up his passive. ...but BotRK would be great on Renekton too. Renekton and Riven rely on staying with you and auto attacking to do most of their damage. They want to be constantly hitting you. On the other hand heroes like Talon, Jayce, Kha'Zix, Pantheon are true AD casters. They rely almost purely on their abilities to do damage and don't actually want to get in your face fighting you for a long time. EDIT: In any case it's semantics of what you want to classify as an AD caster. But Riven is definitely huge on auto attacking and would do it much more than for example the four heroes I mentioned above. Thus BotRK isn't bad on her. It isn't ideal, I agree with you, but it's not as horrible as building it on say Talon. I could see it being a great situational buy if you're against something like a Shen or Cho'gath.
Actually it's optimal for pantheon to auto attack the shit out of you whenever he has the chance
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On November 08 2012 16:13 Deltablazy wrote:
Is Riven even worth playing these days?
I used to main her but started to play her less and less. High elo players also seem to play her less and less. Darius and Jayce are both very difficult to deal with, and those two make me not want to play Riven top, especially since Darius is now a very popular pick.
nobody plays riven because currently fotm jax/irelia completely shit on her, yes u can bully them for abit at early lvl but when they get tabis its all over, on top of that they both scale better late game
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On November 20 2012 08:14 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 08:04 Curu wrote:On November 20 2012 07:31 koreasilver wrote:
Okay guys, Renekton is no longer an AD caster because he has to auto attack to charge up his passive. ...but BotRK would be great on Renekton too. Renekton and Riven rely on staying with you and auto attacking to do most of their damage. They want to be constantly hitting you. On the other hand heroes like Talon, Jayce, Kha'Zix, Pantheon are true AD casters. They rely almost purely on their abilities to do damage and don't actually want to get in your face fighting you for a long time. EDIT: In any case it's semantics of what you want to classify as an AD caster. But Riven is definitely huge on auto attacking and would do it much more than for example the four heroes I mentioned above. Thus BotRK isn't bad on her. It isn't ideal, I agree with you, but it's not as horrible as building it on say Talon. I could see it being a great situational buy if you're against something like a Shen or Cho'gath. Actually it's optimal for pantheon to auto attack the shit out of you whenever he has the chance
Not really, his shield is nice for blocking 2 hits (with his W) but he's still going to get his shit pushed in by almost anyone top in an auto attack fight. Darius, Irelia, Jax, etc would all destroy him if he stood there and fought them even with his passive.
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On November 20 2012 08:43 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 08:14 Perplex wrote:On November 20 2012 08:04 Curu wrote:On November 20 2012 07:31 koreasilver wrote:
Okay guys, Renekton is no longer an AD caster because he has to auto attack to charge up his passive. ...but BotRK would be great on Renekton too. Renekton and Riven rely on staying with you and auto attacking to do most of their damage. They want to be constantly hitting you. On the other hand heroes like Talon, Jayce, Kha'Zix, Pantheon are true AD casters. They rely almost purely on their abilities to do damage and don't actually want to get in your face fighting you for a long time. EDIT: In any case it's semantics of what you want to classify as an AD caster. But Riven is definitely huge on auto attacking and would do it much more than for example the four heroes I mentioned above. Thus BotRK isn't bad on her. It isn't ideal, I agree with you, but it's not as horrible as building it on say Talon. I could see it being a great situational buy if you're against something like a Shen or Cho'gath. Actually it's optimal for pantheon to auto attack the shit out of you whenever he has the chance Not really, his shield is nice for blocking 2 hits (with his W) but he's still going to get his shit pushed in by almost anyone top in an auto attack fight. Darius, Irelia, Jax, etc would all destroy him if he stood there and fought them even with his passive.
after some levels sure. but in the early lane, especially around levels 2-3, pantheon will win the exchange. Landing a couple Q's and then surprising the enemy with auto attack damage and W + ignite has gotten me first blood more times than I can count
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On November 20 2012 08:51 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 08:43 Curu wrote:On November 20 2012 08:14 Perplex wrote:On November 20 2012 08:04 Curu wrote:On November 20 2012 07:31 koreasilver wrote:
Okay guys, Renekton is no longer an AD caster because he has to auto attack to charge up his passive. ...but BotRK would be great on Renekton too. Renekton and Riven rely on staying with you and auto attacking to do most of their damage. They want to be constantly hitting you. On the other hand heroes like Talon, Jayce, Kha'Zix, Pantheon are true AD casters. They rely almost purely on their abilities to do damage and don't actually want to get in your face fighting you for a long time. EDIT: In any case it's semantics of what you want to classify as an AD caster. But Riven is definitely huge on auto attacking and would do it much more than for example the four heroes I mentioned above. Thus BotRK isn't bad on her. It isn't ideal, I agree with you, but it's not as horrible as building it on say Talon. I could see it being a great situational buy if you're against something like a Shen or Cho'gath. Actually it's optimal for pantheon to auto attack the shit out of you whenever he has the chance Not really, his shield is nice for blocking 2 hits (with his W) but he's still going to get his shit pushed in by almost anyone top in an auto attack fight. Darius, Irelia, Jax, etc would all destroy him if he stood there and fought them even with his passive. after some levels sure. but in the early lane, especially around levels 2-3, pantheon will win the exchange. Landing a couple Q's and then surprising the enemy with auto attack damage and W + ignite has gotten me first blood more times than I can count
Yeah he's a real bitch in those levels. He gets so powerless though if you don't get a huge advantage early, enemy just comes to lane with some armour and sustain, gets a few levels and then ignores you and outscales you. He feels like a super weak version of Jayce which sucks because I loved playing Pantheon.
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On November 20 2012 03:04 koreasilver wrote:
Why do you guys even want to build botrk on Riven when its passive is an auto attack modifier. I get that Cris builds cutlass on Riven all the time, but spending 1000 gold on cutlass to get an auto attack modifier?
IDK I'd be aiming to build the new BC.
edit: even on TT, why in the world would you wan to get botrk "as fast as possible" when there's the pillager.
You know what else is an AA modifier? Lifesteal and people buy that for the sustain. You know what it also added onto BotRK's passive, in addition to the lifesteal that is on it? A different kind of sustain. The main reason I was interested in getting BotRK on Riven was because it built easier and dealt magic damage so it wasn't "lulz I got tabi get out of my lane" mode.
I was really hoping there'd be something to make me not have to rush BT. I thought maybe pick up a vamp scepter and rush BC, but with the vamp scepter change it doesn't look much better.
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A lot of the time the reason you buy a vamp is because its a component of BT above anything else. Especially on TT why the hell would you rush a very suboptimal cutlass upgrade instead of building the pillager that you can use with 100% effectiveness because of your champion design? And some expensive aa modifier that doesn't scale with your champ design AT ALL is not going to help you against an armor stacking irelia.
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I'm talking purely from an SR viewpoint, Pillager is a nonissue. I was looking at vamp scepter similar to an adc mindset. They don't build BT till their 4th item, usually, but they buy a scepter early anyway because it is cheap and they want the sustain. The option of cheap sustain item > build BC is weakened heavily by the vamp scepter change.
But then again, silly me for wanting to try out a way to get magic damage on a physical-only champion that people rush to stack armor against. Silly me for wanting an item with an active that has its damage scale with AD, the champions prime stat.
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What on earth is BotRK ?
Is there a list somewhere with all the new items? I wouldn't mind seeing it.
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Thirster looks like, strictly better than that on Riven.
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Okay, lets change the topic instead of arguing about that.
So what do you guys build on Riven nowadays?
I've been using the build talked about on this thread:
Boots/Dorans -> Bloodthirster -> GA -> 2nd BT -> Last Whisper
But I've been really anxious to add in some health for her. Yes AD gives her bigger shield but because she's melee and needs to get in close to multiple enemies to multi-stun in teamfights, I feel like adding health is really needed.
Which leaves a few options: Warmogs, Frozen, Aegis/Randuin's. Aegis/Randuin's are good but they don't add enough health. Frozen seems good but you guys say that the permaslow is not needed since she has good CC. So does that I mean I should build Warmogs?
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Why are you tunneling flat health increases though? (especially late game) Resists are king when you have a spammable shield. What's wrong with Aegis/Randuins which add moderate health and great chunk of resists, if survivability is what you want?
I tend to go [sometimes brutalizer] -> BT -> GA -> LW/Randuins in no particular order -> Second BT. Randuins is pretty much THE item to get if you're struggling to stick to an AD carry with peelers on you without them kiting+murdering you.
I don't really think you need 2 BT's before considering last whisper, either.
It's also worth noting that the reworked Doran's blade provides more sustain early in the game, and only starts dropping off compared to its current incarnation when you have ~150+ AD.
On another note I think, Currently but especially after the ArPen change, LW is the item to deal with "lol I built armor" problems and if someone's really going to stack armor against you, building it early is the way to go. It's also worth noting that tabi is 150 more gold after the S3 boot changes. Much better than trying to build a source of magic damage which usually actually works badly against another bruiser, who probably has natural MR scaling and runes, since you aren't going to have ANY MPen, EVER.
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I usually find that getting a second BT isn't great. Disregarding some early game laning tools like dblade, after BT -> GA you're going to be at a point of the game where the enemy team will have usually have armor, and if you don't need more survivability at that point LW is the item to get. And at any point proceeding to this point, if you need more MR than what you're getting from your mercs + null mantle (GA) then hexdrinker is useful.
Randuin not only scales with your champion design but it also almost guarantees you to kill the AD carry if you have flash up and they don't. IDK, besides BT, GA, and LW, what you build after that really depends on your enemy team and who's the biggest threat at a given time. Hexdrinker (maw) and warden's mail (randuin's) are what I go for.
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I second the notion of not getting a 2nd BT before your LW and probably Randuins and or GA, too.
Nowadays, I usually go 1 Doran's->Bruta (occasionally, 2 Doran's if I don't)->BT. Up until here, the path is pretty much set, then it depends - sometimes I will rush LW because team compositions and flow of the game allows me to, sometimes I will rush GA, sometimes (especially against Graves/Ez/Trist/Corki) I will straight up get Randuins. Finish whatever you didn't build and end the game with Merc's / BT / BT / LW / GA (or QSS occasionally) / Randuins. I think building Riven is just a matter of reading the game properly and reacting accordingly.
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Core:
Boots/Dorans > BT > GA > LW
Late/situational:
Moar BTs, Maw, Randuins
Her itemization blows. I disagree with 2nd BT before LW. Armor shuts you down hard to why wait 9k before you start buying something to counter it?
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On November 25 2012 01:18 GhostOwl wrote:
what about health!?
her shield gives her free health, making Armor and MR give more effective hp than health
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The only health items I'd consider is a randuins, MAYBE phage because its broken but I'm sure it's getting nerfed soon. (425 gold for 8 AD and 45 hp cost effective without the slow l0l)
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So... new items on Riven. I'm trying to figure this one out.
New BC seems great, as she likes pretty much all the stats on it aside from health. However, it's not as much flat AD as BT, which means BT will probably be better for her insane ratios. However, maybe as a 2nd damage item? The armor shred looks pretty good, but she needs the AD unlike people with great base damage like Garen or something.
With GA no longer being the defensive powerhouse of S2 (losing 18 Armor and 8 MR), will it still be the defensive Core or do you think moving towards Glacial/Mercurial depending on enemy damage is the new thing to do? Mercurial in particular looks sick good on her (BT and Cleanse? Uh, yesplz).
Hydra probably not, Zephyr would be cool if it wasn't so heavy on AS. Spirit of the Elder Lizard looks pretty good (makes me want to try Jungle Riven more), but laning really doesn't use all the Hunter's Machete bits and the mp5 is kinda wasted.
So many changes -.-
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EPT
