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On March 30 2012 03:08 Sabin010 wrote:
Did you open dblade? If you have potions you should be able to run him OOM by shielding his harass, and harassing back.
If you have dblade you need to play the lane very aggressively, auto attacking the creeps to hit two faster and then unload on him with w's, q's, and autos. After auto attacking you should cancel that animation and shit so you can stick on him and keep hitting with q's and autos.
No, I opened cloth/poth and shield as suggested by goldfather8's guide (it seemed sensible).
He didn't run OOM because he was very passive; he didn't harrass unless I did, and while my harrass did more damage, his shield+regrowth meant that I never got him low even while I was chugging away my potions.
I had particular trouble with implementing the guide's "Don't fight when his AS debuff is on you" advice. After E->W he'd apply the debuff; if I wanted to get away without taking damage I had to use Q to dash away, and he'd keep CSing.
He wasn't denying me anything, but I wasn't able to kill him, deny CS, or even get him low without running low myself (he ran exhaust/ignite, so I didn't want to fight when low). The guide suggested that I should be able to kill him if I play it right.
Once he had more items he was able to start zoning me because his pokes got too annoying and I still didn't do enough damage (and didn't have the sustain he did).
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I wouldn't be using the shield as a gap closer in this lane. You basically want to save that for getting out when the debuff is on you or when he uses his ad active. I would have been auto attacking the lane to try to get level 2 first and moving into range to get an auto attack before using any abilities, trusting reaction times will be good enough to shield and back out the first sign of danger or shield in for a more comited harass.
If you prefer passive play you could have opted to let him push the lane, and get the jungler up there for a gank, he's running exhaust and ignite so his only real escape is the ms buff, and ultimate. I've only played that match up a few times though, so I wouldn't consider my self an expert on the subject.
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On March 30 2012 04:39 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 03:08 Sabin010 wrote:
Did you open dblade? If you have potions you should be able to run him OOM by shielding his harass, and harassing back.
If you have dblade you need to play the lane very aggressively, auto attacking the creeps to hit two faster and then unload on him with w's, q's, and autos. After auto attacking you should cancel that animation and shit so you can stick on him and keep hitting with q's and autos. No, I opened cloth/poth and shield as suggested by goldfather8's guide (it seemed sensible). He didn't run OOM because he was very passive; he didn't harrass unless I did, and while my harrass did more damage, his shield+regrowth meant that I never got him low even while I was chugging away my potions. I had particular trouble with implementing the guide's "Don't fight when his AS debuff is on you" advice. After E->W he'd apply the debuff; if I wanted to get away without taking damage I had to use Q to dash away, and he'd keep CSing. He wasn't denying me anything, but I wasn't able to kill him, deny CS, or even get him low without running low myself (he ran exhaust/ignite, so I didn't want to fight when low). The guide suggested that I should be able to kill him if I play it right. Once he had more items he was able to start zoning me because his pokes got too annoying and I still didn't do enough damage (and didn't have the sustain he did).
First of all I would rather go boots+3 pots vs someone that has as little harras as Malphite.
second, you should do a ton of damage to anyone once your q-spell is lvl two. It is important to get close, q - hit q - hit q - hit this way you get a ton more damage dealt because of your passive, afterwards you can stun and get another hit in.
Against way weaker opponents I start the damage trades earlier, I skill all three skills at lvl 3 to get a gap closer (shield) do a ton of damage (q-hit) and stun for two extra hits.
If you do this and have a few more creeps on your side than he does you should force him back relatively early, then you push the lane into the tower asap and go b as well.
You return with a dblade and pots/cloth armor and should be half a lvl ahead+more gold.
Do that a couple of times and he doesn't stand a chance.+
Top lane is about outfarming him using the creeps to your advantage, once he gets impatiant because you outplay him like that you will find openings to kill him.
I hope this will help you a little.
Oh, if he runs exhaust+ignite ask for ganks and kill him three times in a row. He should not be allowed to be on top lane without flash or ghost. Period.
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Wait, are you actually recommending to get more than 1 point of Q early game as riven? Since when is that not a retarded idea?
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On March 30 2012 07:17 sylverfyre wrote:
Wait, are you actually recommending to get more than 1 point of Q early game as riven? Since when is that not a retarded idea?
Ive heard wickd and the europeans prefer q maxing over w maxing.
more damage but it pushes the lane really hard
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W max used to give more dps at all levels i believe? but after the nerf Q does instead without massive AD to make full use of the CDR on levelling w
Q max is strong for the damage in lane if nothing else, but as mentioned it pushes very hard
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You have to note that people that max Q first like Wickd builds Riven doing stuff like phage first because he's not making much use out of Riven's W and E which gives her a lot of survivability. Since they're maxing Q for the early damage that comes from the base damage, they build survivability through their items instead, it seems.
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Ive been kicking ass as Riven top lane, both in normal and ranked
ive been doing R>Q>E>W
Seems to work out really well for me.
Riven can push the lane depending on the enemies because she has a lot of escapes. Just gotta know when the right time is to do things and dont use your escapes all at once
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On March 30 2012 05:55 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:39 bmn wrote:On March 30 2012 03:08 Sabin010 wrote:
Did you open dblade? If you have potions you should be able to run him OOM by shielding his harass, and harassing back.
If you have dblade you need to play the lane very aggressively, auto attacking the creeps to hit two faster and then unload on him with w's, q's, and autos. After auto attacking you should cancel that animation and shit so you can stick on him and keep hitting with q's and autos. No, I opened cloth/poth and shield as suggested by goldfather8's guide (it seemed sensible). He didn't run OOM because he was very passive; he didn't harrass unless I did, and while my harrass did more damage, his shield+regrowth meant that I never got him low even while I was chugging away my potions. I had particular trouble with implementing the guide's "Don't fight when his AS debuff is on you" advice. After E->W he'd apply the debuff; if I wanted to get away without taking damage I had to use Q to dash away, and he'd keep CSing. He wasn't denying me anything, but I wasn't able to kill him, deny CS, or even get him low without running low myself (he ran exhaust/ignite, so I didn't want to fight when low). The guide suggested that I should be able to kill him if I play it right. Once he had more items he was able to start zoning me because his pokes got too annoying and I still didn't do enough damage (and didn't have the sustain he did). First of all I would rather go boots+3 pots vs someone that has as little harras as Malphite. second, you should do a ton of damage to anyone once your q-spell is lvl two. It is important to get close, q - hit q - hit q - hit this way you get a ton more damage dealt because of your passive, afterwards you can stun and get another hit in. Against way weaker opponents I start the damage trades earlier, I skill all three skills at lvl 3 to get a gap closer (shield) do a ton of damage (q-hit) and stun for two extra hits. If you do this and have a few more creeps on your side than he does you should force him back relatively early, then you push the lane into the tower asap and go b as well. You return with a dblade and pots/cloth armor and should be half a lvl ahead+more gold. Do that a couple of times and he doesn't stand a chance.+ Top lane is about outfarming him using the creeps to your advantage, once he gets impatiant because you outplay him like that you will find openings to kill him. I hope this will help you a little. Oh, if he runs exhaust+ignite ask for ganks and kill him three times in a row. He should not be allowed to be on top lane without flash or ghost. Period.
For Riven, I use heal and ignite. Heal is clutch and saved me a ton of times and no one remembers about it.
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Does riven's passive damage bonus apply to crits? base 54 ad, crit will do 108 + passive 5, or 54+5 = 118?
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On March 30 2012 12:50 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Does riven's passive damage bonus apply to crits? base 54 ad, crit will do 108 + passive 5, or 54+5 = 118?
YOu havent seen crazy crits till you drop a 1000 crit on people with your ult + passive up
sooo sick.
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On March 30 2012 12:50 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Does riven's passive damage bonus apply to crits? base 54 ad, crit will do 108 + passive 5, or 54+5 = 118?
Last I heard they were added on top of the crit after the fact. Not sure if that is correct though. Do feel crit would be weighted a bit more if they did.
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The tooltip says it adds damage to each auto though so shouldn't it be crit damage + passive damage? It's now like caita passive which actually gives her increased % damage in theory. Has anyone tested it? :o
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On March 30 2012 14:42 BlackPaladin wrote:
The tooltip says it adds damage to each auto though so shouldn't it be crit damage + passive damage? It's now like caita passive which actually gives her increased % damage in theory. Has anyone tested it? :o
I don't have time to test, but I'm pretty sure crit applied afterwards.
I've hit like 1.3-1.4k crits before, which after damage reduction only possible if the 250% crit happen on top of the passive damage increase. I mean unless I had like Jana Shield on me or something...
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No, Riven's passive is treated like a Sheen proc. It does not factor into Critical Strike chance. Although it's still very possible to hit 1000+ a swing with IE+Bloodthrister.
100% Positive. She'd be swinging for 1500 with IE+Bloodthrister if that was the case.
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On March 30 2012 14:49 ManyCookies wrote:
No, Riven's passive is treated like a Sheen proc. It does not factor into Critical Strike chance. Although it's still very possible to hit 1000+ a swing with IE+Bloodthrister.
You sure?
Maybe I crazy then...
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On March 30 2012 09:14 koreasilver wrote:
You have to note that people that max Q first like Wickd builds Riven doing stuff like phage first because he's not making much use out of Riven's W and E which gives her a lot of survivability. Since they're maxing Q for the early damage that comes from the base damage, they build survivability through their items instead, it seems.
Last probably 10 times that i have seen Wickd play Riven he has started with either BT, LW, or that new item. But prolly 8/10 it has been BT, zero times have i seen phage first.
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Maybe he's changed the way he played. I never watch his stream. But during that recent tournament when Riven saw a lot of use, phage was one of the most common early items picked up by these Q maxing Rivens along with dblades and wriggles.
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Ohm, i kinda did not finish my last message. I was supposed to add, that some time ago i remember him starting with Phage all the time, but it seems that he has seen the light. 
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EPT
