EPT
and I figured gaining ~15 more AD for the cost of ~5 ArPen (+21.87 AD at lv 18 and +9.99 ArPen vs +14.94 ArPen and +6.75 AD) would be pretty worth it, especially after considering Riven's scaling with AD. I'm not sure though, I can't do the math atm.[Champion] Riven - Page 23
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NSANE.hydra
United States644 Posts
and I figured gaining ~15 more AD for the cost of ~5 ArPen (+21.87 AD at lv 18 and +9.99 ArPen vs +14.94 ArPen and +6.75 AD) would be pretty worth it, especially after considering Riven's scaling with AD. I'm not sure though, I can't do the math atm. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35164 Posts
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NSANE.hydra
United States644 Posts
Assuming you have an extra +6 ArPen and +10% ArPen from masteries, and that you are level 16 with a Wriggles, 2 DBlades, and a fully farmed BT: With AD/level reds and ArPen quints (~260 AD, 16 ArPen, 10% ArPen) - Against a 100 armor target you do ~148 damage Against a 150 armor target you do ~118 damage Against a 200 armor target you do ~98 damage Against a 250 armor target you do ~84 damage With ArPen reds and flat AD quints (~248 AD, 21 ArPen, 10% ArPen) - Against a 100 armor target you do ~145 damage Against a 150 armor target you do ~115 damage Against a 200 armor target you do ~95 damage Against a 250 armor target you do ~81 damage So yeah it looks like AD/level is better for a mid/endgame setup. If you go even more endgame and add a LW to all those items and that you're level 18, With AD/level reds and ArPen quints (~308 AD, 16 ArPen, 50% ArPen) - Against a 100 armor target you do ~217 damage Against a 150 armor target you do ~185 damage Against a 200 armor target you do ~161 damage Against a 250 armor target you do ~142 damage With ArPen reds and flat AD quints (~293 AD, 21 ArPen, 50% ArPen) - Against a 100 armor target you do ~210 damage Against a 150 armor target you do ~178 damage Against a 200 armor target you do ~155 damage Against a 250 armor target you do ~137 damage So the AD/level pulls more ahead. This also doesn't take into consideration the fact that Riven's abilities scale extremely well off of her AD, so in reality it's even better than the margin these numbers show. The ArPen red page catches up extremely slowly as the target gains more armor, but it won't actually pull ahead in any possible scenario in LoL (it hadn't caught up by 2,000 armor). I think it's a decent runepage to consider taking situationally. Edit: And just because I was curious, here's an earlygame scenario as well. Assuming you have an extra +6 ArPen and +10% ArPen from masteries, and that you are level 9 with a Wriggles and 2 DBlades: With AD/level reds and ArPen quints (~133 AD, 16 ArPen, 10% ArPen) - Against a 100 armor target you do ~76 damage Against a 150 armor target you do ~60 damage With ArPen reds and flat AD quints (~129 AD, 21 ArPen, 10% ArPen) - Against a 100 armor target you do ~75 damage Against a 150 armor target you do ~59 damage So basically AD/level reds and ArPen quints are worse super early and then pull ahead as the game progresses. And of course all of this has absolutely no bearing whatsoever if I math'ed wrong  | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
you should be thinking about levels 1-7 which is where the laning phase is decided like 99% of the time arpen is superior at that stage | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
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NSANE.hydra
United States644 Posts
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
Button press smash lololoolroflherpderp, shield, stun so annoying TT I have huge problems against him with shen | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
but it is also great for attrition flat MR / armor quints are two of the best for toplaners imo given how most toplaners play | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I dunno, I try to play her like a carry and wait for everyone else to engage, but it seems like people never engage unless it like 2v5 or I'm not there. I always have to initiate for anything to actually happen, but then I just get blown up. Am I approaching it wrong? Is their some magical formula to make your teams bruisers play like bruisers and initiate? -.- | ||
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
On February 27 2012 05:43 MindBreaker wrote: Hey so how viable is riven solo top? I usually get ragged on when I call that even though I always dominate. I will say though I don't know what to do I'n teamfights (I assume my teammates are retarded but who knows) so what do I do I'n teamfights? Pop ult/Shield dash and w the carry start qing for the bonus damage make sure your autos get off. if she isnt dead by the time the stun wears off shockwave her while shes running. if shes still alive your either a)targetting the super tanky carry that actually isnt doing shit b)Super behind. after that just walk around and try to stun 2+ people and clean. | ||
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On February 27 2012 14:27 MindBreaker wrote: SCREW SINGED. I mean seriously how do I win solo top vs. Him? Free farm. <3 Then you poop on things late game because you has many many mnay CS and golds. | ||
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snpnx
Germany454 Posts
I feel like I'm on a bad streak with her right now, and I'd like to see if I can do things better, especially in teamfights. Since s.o. just recently also asked about teamfights, it would be incredibly nice to see 1 or 2 replays which are teamfight centric. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
THERE'S NO ONE LEFT -> flash or E into their team -> W -> hit Q hit Q hit alternate vs their squishy -> ulti when you can kill him, try to hit others -> spam everything when it's off cd. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
On February 27 2012 05:39 iCanada wrote: I have trouble with Riven when it comes to teamfights. I usually dominate the early game, and mid game, coming out witht he most farm 9 times out of 10, but then I feel like I just... teamfight wrong. I dunno, I try to play her like a carry and wait for everyone else to engage, but it seems like people never engage unless it like 2v5 or I'm not there. I always have to initiate for anything to actually happen, but then I just get blown up. Am I approaching it wrong? Is their some magical formula to make your teams bruisers play like bruisers and initiate? -.- This is exactly my problem as well. Thing is, even if a fight starts I usually have to q at least twice to get to anything after which people either just run away or they start focusing me and I can't escape because q is on cd. Or what we get initiated on and before long support/ad is on half hp and it's either we engage and all die or don't engage and 2/3 of my team die and the opposing team takes a tower or something. I've even tried building riven a bit tankier asap, like merc->wriggle ->ga before BT (actually by mistake because I bought chain mail >_>) and you can actually hop in without dying but then you do no damage and farm really slow, so that's kinda shit. Meanwhile if I go BT -> ga that's a lot of time spent without much survivability and then somehow I still get my face smashed in (even though I could usually inflict some damage on them). Maybe I'm just playing with morons. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
I wonder if this is why you guys are having trouble playing carry-style Riven - people *expect* Riven to be tanky and be the one in the front line, and are silently cursing you for not initiating, while you're doing the same back to them. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On February 27 2012 21:26 greggy wrote: This is exactly my problem as well. Thing is, even if a fight starts I usually have to q at least twice to get to anything after which people either just run away or they start focusing me and I can't escape because q is on cd. Or what we get initiated on and before long support/ad is on half hp and it's either we engage and all die or don't engage and 2/3 of my team die and the opposing team takes a tower or something. I've even tried building riven a bit tankier asap, like merc->wriggle ->ga before BT (actually by mistake because I bought chain mail >_>) and you can actually hop in without dying but then you do no damage and farm really slow, so that's kinda shit. Meanwhile if I go BT -> ga that's a lot of time spent without much survivability and then somehow I still get my face smashed in (even though I could usually inflict some damage on them). Maybe I'm just playing with morons. I don't think it is morons. I was playing fives with a couples buddies and I literally had to explain why Riven worked as a carry and how it worked. Made my friend Jungle Malphite and I grabbed a Pentakill. It isn't morons, just ignorant players. Everyone think she supposed to be a bruiser for some reason. | ||
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