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[Champion] Riven - Page 22

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-05 03:01:29
February 05 2012 02:56 GMT
#421
I dunno, lately I've been playing a ton of jungle and barely any top. Outside of RE(whatever) I don't think there is a BAD way to build her, and even that could have it's uses.

Honestly, I've been experimenting quite a bit with her because something just feels off about current standards to me.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
February 05 2012 03:18 GMT
#422
Yeah, after trying it a bit, I think RWEQ is still best. The base number changes aren't huge when you have dat AD scaling, and the CDR on E levels is just to good to pass up.
It's your boy Guzma!
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
February 07 2012 18:43 GMT
#423
since all the chatter in the GD thread about riven, i wanted to clear some things up about her

-riven does NOT feel pressured to "win" or "dominate" her lane. she outscales every single champ in the game so as long as she does the MINIMUM of last hitting, she is doing fine. it just so happens that she has a fantastic lane phase too
-riven should always pure as pure of an AD build that she can afford. the way her shield works, she gets *more* hp out of building AD than she does out of building HP
-resists are powerful on riven, moreso than HP
-there are 15 creeps in the jungle, meaning if you can pick up a creep from lanes every pass, you'll fill your bloodthirster in 2 jungle runs
-that being said, riven jungle doesn't bring much to the table compared to trundle, skarner, udyr, shyvana, ww, maokai, etc. she's far better in lane because (a) she needs lane levels of farm, and (b) she doesn't function well with shurelia/aegis/starks style builds
-riven is a CARRY
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
requiem
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
United States268 Posts
February 07 2012 20:48 GMT
#424
just saw wickd max Q first, not sure if he followed that up with W or E but it was doing sick damage to creep waves. thoughts on this? i think he was going for more sustained damage going wriggles mallet atma's and maxing Q, having maokai and anivia to lock down targets
...
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35128 Posts
February 08 2012 00:18 GMT
#425
Yeah, from what little I've seen of the Euro pros playing Riven, they seem to like the tanky dps Q first approach.
FuzzyLord
Profile Joined September 2010
253 Posts
February 08 2012 00:29 GMT
#426
It's probably because her Q now out damages her W. Just get 1 point in W for the stun, then just Q AA Q AA Q AA your way to victory.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 08 2012 00:37 GMT
#427
On February 08 2012 09:29 FuzzyLord wrote:
It's probably because her Q now out damages her W. Just get 1 point in W for the stun, then just Q AA Q AA Q AA your way to victory.

You max W because having 2/3 the CD on W scales way better, both on damage and on utility. Q gives you a flat boost to damage early, but W's CD scaling means that the more AD you have, the more W's damage output catches up.

W-max beats Q-max in terms of damage output at ~150ish bonus AD, which is basically Wriggles + BT + some other incidental AD. That's also not considering how having stuns every 7 seconds rather than every 11 is hugely different.
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FuzzyLord
Profile Joined September 2010
253 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 00:49:23
February 08 2012 00:47 GMT
#428
On February 08 2012 09:37 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 09:29 FuzzyLord wrote:
It's probably because her Q now out damages her W. Just get 1 point in W for the stun, then just Q AA Q AA Q AA your way to victory.

You max W because having 2/3 the CD on W scales way better, both on damage and on utility. Q gives you a flat boost to damage early, but W's CD scaling means that the more AD you have, the more W's damage output catches up.

W-max beats Q-max in terms of damage output at ~150ish bonus AD, which is basically Wriggles + BT + some other incidental AD. That's also not considering how having stuns every 7 seconds rather than every 11 is hugely different.


Though scaling on her W IS better, thats for late game. Laning phase, you want to max Q since the flat damage you get from it vastly outscales any bonus damage you get from bonus AD on your W. Theres about a 40~ damage difference between lvl 1 Q and lvl 1 W. Leveling her Q, however, increases your damage output exponentially. At level 2, you do about 100+ more damage than your W, level 3 is even more, etc. you would have to have a LOT of bonus AD to be able to make your W outdamage your Q. You also have to take into account that that bonus 150 AD adds to Q damage as well, so you would actually have to have 300+ more damage to actually outdamage your Q.
On the point about the 11 to 7 second stun. Early game, i don't think it is really that important. It just makes you actually have to think before blindly hitting W. IMO, i think that the early damage potential is more important than consistent CC. Champions like Udyr, Irelia, etc. will just scoff at the .75 second stun and just heal everything back up. Her Q, however, has the potential to push these kinds of champions out of lane purely because of the immense damage output.
Zhiroo
Profile Joined February 2011
Kosovo2724 Posts
February 08 2012 16:03 GMT
#429
How do you deal with Nasus as Riven? I had a game where I no matter what I did he just traded me back and kept farming and even killed me twice easy.
LoL EuW: Zhiroo - By starting this squabble you've proven nothing but how vast your stupidity is.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
February 08 2012 16:31 GMT
#430
On February 09 2012 01:03 Zhiroo wrote:
How do you deal with Nasus as Riven? I had a game where I no matter what I did he just traded me back and kept farming and even killed me twice easy.

That shouldn't happen at early levels. You need to bully the crap out of him with your superior early game damage and deny those last hits. Riven also doesn't care about Wither, as your dashes should get you away 100% of the time. Trade with him, don't attack when his ult's up, and just try to get ahead and deny his Q farming. He's as strong as you late game (though in different ways), so you have to just keep your lead on him as long as you can.
It's your boy Guzma!
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
February 08 2012 17:45 GMT
#431
On February 09 2012 01:31 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 01:03 Zhiroo wrote:
How do you deal with Nasus as Riven? I had a game where I no matter what I did he just traded me back and kept farming and even killed me twice easy.

That shouldn't happen at early levels. You need to bully the crap out of him with your superior early game damage and deny those last hits. Riven also doesn't care about Wither, as your dashes should get you away 100% of the time. Trade with him, don't attack when his ult's up, and just try to get ahead and deny his Q farming. He's as strong as you late game (though in different ways), so you have to just keep your lead on him as long as you can.


You forgot one very important thing: stay out of his E at all costs. If he hits you with a Q while you're in the fire, you'll lose the trade in all likelihood.
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
February 09 2012 05:52 GMT
#432
Q max first riven is strong

i'd say that it is better at pushing advantages at early levels and in very close matchups that can be won with a slight number gains (vs olaf run ignite , dblade stack, and Q > W > E to fight)

in lanes where you will have an advantage anyway or is hard to force kills against i am still comfortable getting W>E>Q for teamfight power and stronger midgame with BT
Hey! Listen!
Zhiroo
Profile Joined February 2011
Kosovo2724 Posts
February 09 2012 18:38 GMT
#433
First few games I was beginning to be disappointed that i bought her but after I got the hang of it, fuck she's beastly so glad I got her.
LoL EuW: Zhiroo - By starting this squabble you've proven nothing but how vast your stupidity is.
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
February 11 2012 03:41 GMT
#434
updated on solomid: just wrote a little more on skilling flexibility, mostly written on TL beforehand
Hey! Listen!
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35128 Posts
February 11 2012 04:56 GMT
#435
Are you still using those masteries?
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
February 11 2012 04:59 GMT
#436
21-9-0 probably better in most cases unless you can really make use of the reduced timer on flash / teleport if those are the masteries you are running
aka if you're not doing TP vs TP toplane it'll probably be fine
Hey! Listen!
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
February 11 2012 05:35 GMT
#437
Does the Navi from this thread = Navitar the summoner? If so your riven stats are obscene.
I don't own Riven but when i lane against one i find that she pushes lane really hard when trying to bully me.
Just played vs a riven as nasus and she had the advantage but all that AOE pushed my right into my comfort zone next to the tower. Don't see how this won't happen every time, opening you up to ganks.
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 06:07:41
February 11 2012 06:06 GMT
#438
Q doesn't draw creep aggro, depending on how willing they are to react to / initiate harassment it varies from game to game.
but when i started playing riven i also realized my tendency for riven (and all toplaners, in general) was to push.

pushing gives you an innate advantage in lane (more levels / skills / less creep aggro when stand and fight) but also obvious disadvantages (easier to gank, lets passive weak laners farm at tower).

by the nature of her harassment she will push most waves against enemies who play passively and don't attempt to take the creep advantage; against these, you can simply push the wave to tower at around the 3rd or 4th wave (you should be near 3) and back if you deem it fit (need ward asap against say Lee sin etc.).

if the creepwave is large enough (i.e. the enemy is extremely passive) then the creepwave should hold the enemy's creepwave and then let it push out, i.e. the next creepwave that pushes out from the enemy contains half of their 4th or 5th wave and their 6th, which will push towards your tower. at this point you can zone the enemy laner from EXP if they are so passive and unable to fight with you.

this kind of basic creep manipulation is extremely easy to do against, say, a very passive nasus.

yus i am navitar aka navitard
Hey! Listen!
NSANE.hydra
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States644 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 19:59:11
February 22 2012 19:44 GMT
#439
Thoughts on scaling AD runes for Riven? I tried them out a few times, but giving up earlygame power that doesn't pay off until lategame doesn't seem worth it except for in cases in which you are like 100% sure you're gonna be playing passively early. Since she's super strong early and then kinda falls off midgame until you get a big AD item, weakening her earlygame and leaving her midgame still mediocre leaves you weaker overall for the first like 15ish minutes of the game.

But since AD/lvl reds pass flat AD reds by level 7 rather than 9 (where AD/lvl quints catch up), would it be worth it to switch your quints to ArPen and make your reds to AD/lvl and then get an early Brutalizer? Seems like would make your midgame pretty damn strong when teamfights start breaking out, which is where Riven really rapes. Of course this would be situational, but still might be worth trying out. Opinions?

edit: The general idea is that if you know you won't be able to do much early, then you purposely gimp your earlygame and just focus on a stronger mid/lategame. In retrospect a Brutalizer might not be the item to build for this, but I do think the runes could work.
"fuck mech...I could 4pool and as long as he's simply PLANNING on going mech, I'll lose"
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-22 23:26:21
February 22 2012 21:26 GMT
#440
AD reds can work. However I get the feeling they are lackluster against a wriggles(haven't done the math though). Lategame the dropoff isn't that bad. I did a bunch of napkin math when I saw Chaox was using ad marks on all his ad carries, sans MF, and I think the largest split I got was around a 9-15 damage difference lategame. The more armor they had, the smaller the margin got.

ArP reds / AD quint is the better mix split though.

EDIT: Just ran into this in the official forums. X is AD Y is armor. Colorcoded by which is the best for the situation.
http://i.imgur.com/WKwAv.png
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