EPTHonestly, I've been experimenting quite a bit with her because something just feels off about current standards to me.
[Champion] Riven - Page 22
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
Honestly, I've been experimenting quite a bit with her because something just feels off about current standards to me. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
-riven does NOT feel pressured to "win" or "dominate" her lane. she outscales every single champ in the game so as long as she does the MINIMUM of last hitting, she is doing fine. it just so happens that she has a fantastic lane phase too -riven should always pure as pure of an AD build that she can afford. the way her shield works, she gets *more* hp out of building AD than she does out of building HP -resists are powerful on riven, moreso than HP -there are 15 creeps in the jungle, meaning if you can pick up a creep from lanes every pass, you'll fill your bloodthirster in 2 jungle runs -that being said, riven jungle doesn't bring much to the table compared to trundle, skarner, udyr, shyvana, ww, maokai, etc. she's far better in lane because (a) she needs lane levels of farm, and (b) she doesn't function well with shurelia/aegis/starks style builds -riven is a CARRY | ||
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requiem
United States268 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
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FuzzyLord
253 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 08 2012 09:29 FuzzyLord wrote: It's probably because her Q now out damages her W. Just get 1 point in W for the stun, then just Q AA Q AA Q AA your way to victory. You max W because having 2/3 the CD on W scales way better, both on damage and on utility. Q gives you a flat boost to damage early, but W's CD scaling means that the more AD you have, the more W's damage output catches up. W-max beats Q-max in terms of damage output at ~150ish bonus AD, which is basically Wriggles + BT + some other incidental AD. That's also not considering how having stuns every 7 seconds rather than every 11 is hugely different. | ||
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FuzzyLord
253 Posts
On February 08 2012 09:37 TheYango wrote: You max W because having 2/3 the CD on W scales way better, both on damage and on utility. Q gives you a flat boost to damage early, but W's CD scaling means that the more AD you have, the more W's damage output catches up. W-max beats Q-max in terms of damage output at ~150ish bonus AD, which is basically Wriggles + BT + some other incidental AD. That's also not considering how having stuns every 7 seconds rather than every 11 is hugely different. Though scaling on her W IS better, thats for late game. Laning phase, you want to max Q since the flat damage you get from it vastly outscales any bonus damage you get from bonus AD on your W. Theres about a 40~ damage difference between lvl 1 Q and lvl 1 W. Leveling her Q, however, increases your damage output exponentially. At level 2, you do about 100+ more damage than your W, level 3 is even more, etc. you would have to have a LOT of bonus AD to be able to make your W outdamage your Q. You also have to take into account that that bonus 150 AD adds to Q damage as well, so you would actually have to have 300+ more damage to actually outdamage your Q. On the point about the 11 to 7 second stun. Early game, i don't think it is really that important. It just makes you actually have to think before blindly hitting W. IMO, i think that the early damage potential is more important than consistent CC. Champions like Udyr, Irelia, etc. will just scoff at the .75 second stun and just heal everything back up. Her Q, however, has the potential to push these kinds of champions out of lane purely because of the immense damage output. | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On February 09 2012 01:03 Zhiroo wrote: How do you deal with Nasus as Riven? I had a game where I no matter what I did he just traded me back and kept farming and even killed me twice easy. That shouldn't happen at early levels. You need to bully the crap out of him with your superior early game damage and deny those last hits. Riven also doesn't care about Wither, as your dashes should get you away 100% of the time. Trade with him, don't attack when his ult's up, and just try to get ahead and deny his Q farming. He's as strong as you late game (though in different ways), so you have to just keep your lead on him as long as you can. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On February 09 2012 01:31 Requizen wrote: That shouldn't happen at early levels. You need to bully the crap out of him with your superior early game damage and deny those last hits. Riven also doesn't care about Wither, as your dashes should get you away 100% of the time. Trade with him, don't attack when his ult's up, and just try to get ahead and deny his Q farming. He's as strong as you late game (though in different ways), so you have to just keep your lead on him as long as you can. You forgot one very important thing: stay out of his E at all costs. If he hits you with a Q while you're in the fire, you'll lose the trade in all likelihood. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
i'd say that it is better at pushing advantages at early levels and in very close matchups that can be won with a slight number gains (vs olaf run ignite , dblade stack, and Q > W > E to fight) in lanes where you will have an advantage anyway or is hard to force kills against i am still comfortable getting W>E>Q for teamfight power and stronger midgame with BT | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
aka if you're not doing TP vs TP toplane it'll probably be fine | ||
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petered
United States1817 Posts
I don't own Riven but when i lane against one i find that she pushes lane really hard when trying to bully me. Just played vs a riven as nasus and she had the advantage but all that AOE pushed my right into my comfort zone next to the tower. Don't see how this won't happen every time, opening you up to ganks. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
but when i started playing riven i also realized my tendency for riven (and all toplaners, in general) was to push. pushing gives you an innate advantage in lane (more levels / skills / less creep aggro when stand and fight) but also obvious disadvantages (easier to gank, lets passive weak laners farm at tower). by the nature of her harassment she will push most waves against enemies who play passively and don't attempt to take the creep advantage; against these, you can simply push the wave to tower at around the 3rd or 4th wave (you should be near 3) and back if you deem it fit (need ward asap against say Lee sin etc.). if the creepwave is large enough (i.e. the enemy is extremely passive) then the creepwave should hold the enemy's creepwave and then let it push out, i.e. the next creepwave that pushes out from the enemy contains half of their 4th or 5th wave and their 6th, which will push towards your tower. at this point you can zone the enemy laner from EXP if they are so passive and unable to fight with you. this kind of basic creep manipulation is extremely easy to do against, say, a very passive nasus. yus i am navitar aka navitard | ||
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NSANE.hydra
United States644 Posts
But since AD/lvl reds pass flat AD reds by level 7 rather than 9 (where AD/lvl quints catch up), would it be worth it to switch your quints to ArPen and make your reds to AD/lvl and then get an early Brutalizer? Seems like would make your midgame pretty damn strong when teamfights start breaking out, which is where Riven really rapes. Of course this would be situational, but still might be worth trying out. Opinions? edit: The general idea is that if you know you won't be able to do much early, then you purposely gimp your earlygame and just focus on a stronger mid/lategame. In retrospect a Brutalizer might not be the item to build for this, but I do think the runes could work. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
ArP reds / AD quint is the better mix split though. EDIT: Just ran into this in the official forums. X is AD Y is armor. Colorcoded by which is the best for the situation. http://i.imgur.com/WKwAv.png | ||
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