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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Of the six games I've played, three were against talon's, two were akali's, and the other one was GP. I like fping Panth and watching my opponent counterpick themselves. Best spree of six games ever, 77/8/49 over the course of them... damn it nice to get really big. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On May 19 2012 07:31 Alaric wrote: I don't see that much. And all I saw (hovering between 1200 et 1300 ranked, ~1450 stable normals) where pretty terrible, esp. more so in top lane than in the jungle, except for maybe two. Chalice first still common... Also, do you sometimes have problems casting HSS? There are times where I just can't do anything about it. Last game I pressed E, clicked within the cone, three times in a row, and it didn't cast at all (cost me a death instead of a kill, and probably a free feed lane as well). It happens quite often actually, and I just can't get why. Were you diving? I think if you angle is wrong against the turret or some terrain you will get a grayed out or red cone since he doesnt have room to cast it Also I never see any other Pantheons, I am the only person I ever see pick him. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It has happened several times even with no obstacles whatsoever too, but if I recall well every time the enemy champ I was aiming for (and generally clicking on) was very close to me (as it generally occurs when I try to W->E). | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Why have I not played Panth this whole time? zzzz | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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HughMyron
297 Posts
That doesn't mean he wins though. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Its not too unreasonable to ult into an already commited teamfight and instastun the AD carry killing them before your W's stun even finished. Even if you can't do that, you able to use your E two or three times in a teamfight chances are your team won the team fight. Am I missing something, or does Panth not scale just as good if not better than any AP carry in the game? | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On May 23 2012 04:58 iCanada wrote: Why do people think Pantheon falls off? I think thats the biggest thing I've really noticed since I started playing him a lot. Everyone thinks when the 20 minute mark hits you gonna be useless or something. He no AD carry or anything, but with 2xdorans, LW, and BT Panths E does like 894 AoE damage in three quarters of a second.... his Q hit for 454. He also has reasonable cooldowns, a passive that scales really well, AND he is always a global presence because of his ult. Its not too unreasonable to ult into an already commited teamfight and instastun the AD carry killing them before your W's stun even finished. Even if you can't do that, you able to use your E two or three times in a teamfight chances are your team won the team fight. Am I missing something, or does Panth not scale just as good if not better than any AP carry in the game? It's not the fact he deals no damage, it's that he has to come really close to do so. There's a point where you just get gibbed and there's little you can do about it. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On May 23 2012 04:58 iCanada wrote: Why do people think Pantheon falls off? I think thats the biggest thing I've really noticed since I started playing him a lot. Everyone thinks when the 20 minute mark hits you gonna be useless or something. He no AD carry or anything, but with 2xdorans, LW, and BT Panths E does like 894 AoE damage in three quarters of a second.... his Q hit for 454. He also has reasonable cooldowns, a passive that scales really well, AND he is always a global presence because of his ult. Its not too unreasonable to ult into an already commited teamfight and instastun the AD carry killing them before your W's stun even finished. Even if you can't do that, you able to use your E two or three times in a teamfight chances are your team won the team fight. Am I missing something, or does Panth not scale just as good if not better than any AP carry in the game? AP burst tends to be more reliable in terms of initiating and doing it's damage (since you can CC Pantheon out of his E). I agree with you though, I think Pantheon's late game is very strong, but you have to be smart about positioning to abuse his E correctly in teamfights, whereas a lot of APs have much more obvious uses for their offensive skills. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On May 23 2012 05:20 Shiv. wrote: It's not the fact he deals no damage, it's that he has to come really close to do so. There's a point where you just get gibbed and there's little you can do about it. That goes for like every melee champion though. Everyone says panth falls off really hard, but no one says it about say a Gangplank. Realistically, GP and Pantheon do the same damage, have the same range, and both have the global ultimate. Hell, I'd say Panth's passive is a significant'y better defensive steroid than GPs in an offensive steroid, panth has a gap closer/stun that GP doesn't, and Pantheon has more ranged abilities and can stay further away from the action than GP can for the majority of the fight. If I'm 5-0-0 on GP everyone in the game talks about how I'm gonna carry them hard. If I am 5-0-0 on Pantheon, everyone talks about how it doesn't mean shit because I'm going to fall off. Do you see what I mean? | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On May 23 2012 05:49 iCanada wrote: That goes for like every melee champion though. Everyone says panth falls off really hard, but no one says it about say a Gangplank. Realistically, GP and Pantheon do the same damage, have the same range, and both have the global ultimate. Hell, I'd say Panth's passive is a significant'y better defensive steroid than GPs in an offensive steroid, panth has a gap closer/stun that GP doesn't, and Pantheon has more ranged abilities and can stay further away from the action than GP can for the majority of the fight. If I'm 5-0-0 on GP everyone in the game talks about how I'm gonna carry them hard. If I am 5-0-0 on Pantheon, everyone talks about how it doesn't mean shit because I'm going to fall off. Do you see what I mean? because GP carries hard and panth doesn't... everyone says those things because they're true. gp and panth do NOT do the same damage; GP crits more often than he gets standard auto attacks by lategame, his parrrleys crit even when the enemy is above 15% health, GP has a huge MS/AD buff and a built in frozen mallet which means if you're caught straggling against GP, it's over, GP has a free QSS that also heals him, GP can do meaningful damage even while building pure tank, GPs ult is better in 80% of situations, and pantheon doesn't have more ranged abilities wtf they both have 1 panth's passive is bad during teamfights because anyone's auto can pop it. janna can throw an auto at you while you're chasing her carry and boom you just lost the only defensive skill you had, now you're all in bro. and if you get kited it's over as pantheon. at least GP will 100% be faster than the enemy carry and has a ranged slow to catch up. you make a good point that melee champs all have a tendency to get blowed the fk up lategame, but GP was the worst example you could have given. pantheon is closer to yi, fiora, renekton than GP lategame - if those guys build tank they do no damage, but if they build damage then they get 1 shot to get in and get a kill or it's over. panth is the same way lategame. unless you're insanely far ahead, you have to play really cautiously in teamfights because once you're in, you're in. if you commit at the wrong time it's over. that's the reason i stopped playing panth. win lane lose game is the worst feeling in the world. it's even worse when you shut down your enemy laner but they have actual relevance lategame and your team can't close the game out and the guy you shut down ends up carrying the enemy. most embarassing/frustrating thing | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I dunno, if Pantheon falls off crazy late game then so does Warwick, Udyr, Shen, Olaf, Shyvana, Renekton, Wukong... and almost every bruiser in the game. All of these champs have the exact same limitations. Either build damage or tanky, need to be in close, etc. I dunno, I just dont feel Pantheon becomes useless or irrelevent late game. Worst comes to worst he is still one of the best split pushers in the game. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On May 24 2012 03:02 iCanada wrote: Dont get me wrong, I do think GP is better late game than Pantheon. That would be absurd. Gangplank does have those same limitations that pantheon does, he just scales harder in general. I dunno, if Pantheon falls off crazy late game then so does Warwick, Udyr, Shen, Olaf, Shyvana, Renekton, Wukong... and almost every bruiser in the game. All of these champs have the exact same limitations. Either build damage or tanky, need to be in close, etc. I dunno, I just dont feel Pantheon becomes useless or irrelevent late game. Worst comes to worst he is still one of the best split pushers in the game. The difference is that all the guys you named except Renekton can do tons of damage by building tanky. Pantheon, Renekton, and other champs like him aren't bruisers in that if they build tanky their damage is completely ignorable. They have to build damage to be relevant. In that sense, they can't dive into the enemy team the way bruisers can. These champs have to pick their fights smarter. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
On May 24 2012 03:02 iCanada wrote: Dont get me wrong, I do think GP is better late game than Pantheon. That would be absurd. Gangplank does have those same limitations that pantheon does, he just scales harder in general. I dunno, if Pantheon falls off crazy late game then so does Warwick, Udyr, Shen, Olaf, Shyvana, Renekton, Wukong... and almost every bruiser in the game. All of these champs have the exact same limitations. Either build damage or tanky, need to be in close, etc. I dunno, I just dont feel Pantheon becomes useless or irrelevent late game. Worst comes to worst he is still one of the best split pushers in the game. warwick and shyvana have their ultimates and their respective gap closing / movement utility shen can body ppl similar to pantheon with more safety bc his escape wukong has unconditional cc olaf true damage udyr great natural tankiness. Best comparison is renek but panth has greater range and defensive passive early idk nuances in champs hard to emphasize | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 23 2012 05:49 iCanada wrote: That goes for like every melee champion though. Everyone says panth falls off really hard, but no one says it about say a Gangplank. Realistically, GP and Pantheon do the same damage, have the same range, and both have the global ultimate. Hell, I'd say Panth's passive is a significant'y better defensive steroid than GPs in an offensive steroid, panth has a gap closer/stun that GP doesn't, and Pantheon has more ranged abilities and can stay further away from the action than GP can for the majority of the fight. If I'm 5-0-0 on GP everyone in the game talks about how I'm gonna carry them hard. If I am 5-0-0 on Pantheon, everyone talks about how it doesn't mean shit because I'm going to fall off. Do you see what I mean? Pantheon falls off because he scales incredibly hard off bonus AD as opposed to base damages. Champs like Irelia and Udyr can build super tanky and have their skills do the damage instead of their items. Riven can build AD but has asinine mobility and an ability that gives her tankiness scaling off her AD items. Pantheon's passive is one of the best early game damage mitigators, but one of the worst lategame ones when attack speeds are higher and you're dealing with multiple people attacking you instead of your lane opponent. His only CC involves literally jumping into the enemies which gets him blown up, unlike lots of other bruisers like Jax who has an AOE stun and invincibility to autoattacks and massive aoe damage reduction etc etc. Think of any good lategame bruiser and they either can build tanky and still do damage, have insane mobility to help overcome their melee-ness, or are like GP who can avoid CCs has other utility. Also Panth's ult is garbage for anything but a hopeful initiate and split pushing lategame. But he does scale harder off AD than I think anyone besides maybe wukong. It's purely a matter of kit, not damage scaling. | ||
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