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On May 26 2012 07:45 hellsan631 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 07:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 07:34 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:58 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:48 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:13 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:08 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:06 hellsan631 wrote:On May 24 2012 06:47 iCanada wrote:
I dunno...
I just dont feel weak at all with Pantheon late game. I'm not saying he rolls over everyone, or that is late game is broken, or anything like that, more saying that I don't understand the stigma people have that Panth's late game is useless... because it really isn't. He just is really bad in team fights if he isn't fed like a beast. He can jump and flash to attack a target, but if you Q the wrong target, or use your jump on the wrong target, it won't be up again for the entire teamfight. From then on, he is just a lousy auto attacker, and a so-so tank. After his jump, you can pretty much ignore him because he does 0 damage to anyone he can get close to. That said, if he is somewhat fed, his damage is enough where you are forced to focus him, and he is really tanky as well as being able to get out of a tight jam by jump stun/flash. So if you can get him farmed to hell, then he is very useful. ...what game are you playing where pantheon's cds are high and he does 0 damage? Didn't say his cd's are high, just in a normal time of a team fight, you can usually only get off 2 stuns, and 2-3 Q's, along with an E. The original stun and Q are on the engage, then you go after a target. If your not fed, your auto attacks won't do much damage, because you will be at around 4 items, 2 of which are tank. Most of his damage is on burst, and his strengths are survivability and mobility in a fight. If there is any CC, then his mobility goes down, and he is just a stun. The time-span of a team fight doesn't allow panth to shine like in laning phase. if u only have 4 items and half of them are tank items you're building him wrong. bruit - dps FM - tank Atmas - semi-tank and either warmogs - tank hexdrinker - semi-tank (not really that good of a dmg item) and depending on stuff, you rarely get non-tank boots. Usually i like to get merc treds because the cc reduction helps a ton. but if they don't have cc, usually Ninja tabi. You build him any other way he is just going to be instagibbed and worthless in the late game. Sure it goes off of each game, but these items allow him to fulfill his top-lane tanky role, while also allowing him to do good dps, and catch someone off guard. or you can build him the way outlined in the OP and do damage. come lategame you're not worthless if you position properly. that means not diving their squishies unless they're out of position. you can melt bruisers and zone/peel for your carries pretty darn well. but i mean sure go ahead and keep building him as a standard bruiser and only win games if you're fed. Considering I win my lane and are fed around 90% of my panth games (it happens because panth is so great at ganking other lanes), and that the build i'm using is what a lot of top players use (dyrus and wings come to mind). Also, the average standard bruiser build is usually wits, atmogs (or atmit), hog, and an X counter item here. Maw is really good with panth because of his passive shield. (also, LS is usually my 5-6th item depending). The build listed in the thread is your standard low elo lets go carry build that only works at the lower elo's because people don't know how to teamfight, and think that the laning phase ends at 15 minuets when the enemy tower is dead. lolol smash is low elo. very funny joke Dunno who smash is. And elo doesn't really mean much at the higher elo's. Any champ can carry, and any one can get carried. A lot of people are still bad at 2k. I can play every role well, and usually only play panth as a joke champ for top, when in normal draft. Panth is never played in competitive games, and if he was, no one would use that build. The most work i've seen panth do is by dyrus, which is where that build comes from, when he was using him to get to top 5 eu. Also, consider that the build in the OP is most likely 3-4 mo old.
It's cool. Smash doesn't know who you are either. GLHF coming into this thread on this forum and arguing with the OP. You won't find anyone agreeing with you. There is a reason for that.
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On May 26 2012 07:45 hellsan631 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 07:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 07:34 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:58 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:48 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:13 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:08 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:06 hellsan631 wrote:On May 24 2012 06:47 iCanada wrote:
I dunno...
I just dont feel weak at all with Pantheon late game. I'm not saying he rolls over everyone, or that is late game is broken, or anything like that, more saying that I don't understand the stigma people have that Panth's late game is useless... because it really isn't. He just is really bad in team fights if he isn't fed like a beast. He can jump and flash to attack a target, but if you Q the wrong target, or use your jump on the wrong target, it won't be up again for the entire teamfight. From then on, he is just a lousy auto attacker, and a so-so tank. After his jump, you can pretty much ignore him because he does 0 damage to anyone he can get close to. That said, if he is somewhat fed, his damage is enough where you are forced to focus him, and he is really tanky as well as being able to get out of a tight jam by jump stun/flash. So if you can get him farmed to hell, then he is very useful. ...what game are you playing where pantheon's cds are high and he does 0 damage? Didn't say his cd's are high, just in a normal time of a team fight, you can usually only get off 2 stuns, and 2-3 Q's, along with an E. The original stun and Q are on the engage, then you go after a target. If your not fed, your auto attacks won't do much damage, because you will be at around 4 items, 2 of which are tank. Most of his damage is on burst, and his strengths are survivability and mobility in a fight. If there is any CC, then his mobility goes down, and he is just a stun. The time-span of a team fight doesn't allow panth to shine like in laning phase. if u only have 4 items and half of them are tank items you're building him wrong. bruit - dps FM - tank Atmas - semi-tank and either warmogs - tank hexdrinker - semi-tank (not really that good of a dmg item) and depending on stuff, you rarely get non-tank boots. Usually i like to get merc treds because the cc reduction helps a ton. but if they don't have cc, usually Ninja tabi. You build him any other way he is just going to be instagibbed and worthless in the late game. Sure it goes off of each game, but these items allow him to fulfill his top-lane tanky role, while also allowing him to do good dps, and catch someone off guard. or you can build him the way outlined in the OP and do damage. come lategame you're not worthless if you position properly. that means not diving their squishies unless they're out of position. you can melt bruisers and zone/peel for your carries pretty darn well. but i mean sure go ahead and keep building him as a standard bruiser and only win games if you're fed. Considering I win my lane and are fed around 90% of my panth games (it happens because panth is so great at ganking other lanes), and that the build i'm using is what a lot of top players use (dyrus and wings come to mind). Also, the average standard bruiser build is usually wits, atmogs (or atmit), hog, and an X counter item here. Maw is really good with panth because of his passive shield. (also, LS is usually my 5-6th item depending). The build listed in the thread is your standard low elo lets go carry build that only works at the lower elo's because people don't know how to teamfight, and think that the laning phase ends at 15 minuets when the enemy tower is dead. lolol smash is low elo. very funny joke Dunno who smash is. And elo doesn't really mean much at the higher elo's. Any champ can carry, and any one can get carried. A lot of people are still bad at 2k. I can play every role well, and usually only play panth as a joke champ for top, when in normal draft. Panth is never played in competitive games, and if he was, no one would use that build. The most work i've seen panth do is by dyrus, which is where that build comes from, when he was using him to get to top 5 eu. Also, consider that the build in the OP is most likely 3-4 mo old.
first you say the build is low elo shit, then when we tell you that this build is used by high elo people you say elo doesn't matter.
Dyrus did use to go mallet+atmas, but that was before the atmas nerf. No one goes atmas anymore. Lots of champs aren't used in competitive play, but that's not necessarily indicative that they're bad. Champs like Xerath, Wukong rarely see competitive play but they're definitely not bad/unviable champs. What you see played in tourneys is limited by what champs the pros are comfortable with.
Also, while the OP wrote the guide 3-4 months ago, the poster updates his stuff very frequently when needed.
Why don't you tell us your summoner name/server/elo so we can decide the validity of your statements for ourselves since you clearly don't think much of what any of us say.
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Thats chill. Apparently if you have conflicting opinions, they don't matter. I can only draw from my experience, and whenever I see a panth that tries to build like that in the mid game, he doesn't do that well in the late game, because his team is squish so there is nothing to tank damage. You can just cc him and nuke him quickly, to where he can't get a combo off.
I personally think he works as a great tank, and yea his peel is ok. He is a champ that functions well with items. You can build him any way you like, and in some cases that build works well. But if they have a good jungler and a beefy top lane, they will just zone you in lane phase, and when ever you go to gank, it will be pretty obvious. Panth's ganks are amazing, but they are pretty easy to "sniff" out. He can tower dive, but if he is ever afk from lane after 6, the jungler should just be near bot lane waiting to counter gank a tower dive.
I've tried that build a while ago, and it can work. Usually I have to build tanky as a top laner, just in general. Panth at least needs FM + atmas, or Warmogs + Atmas to fulfill this role. Atams, even since the nerf, is an extremely good item, and worth more then its cost in AD.
Each game requires a different build, and very rarely does top lane get to build damage. With my ganks, I usually try and feed our mid, or ad carry, and help them win their lane. Building tanky helps fulfill this better then building dmg, because with tanky, you can dive and turn things around in mid-game, and while you won't get all the kills, thats not the goal.
Panths kit is built for early/mid game map control and dominance. He isn't a hyper carry, that's for sure. So as long as your team feeds, it won't matter how much you gank for them. If your strong with your positioning, you can help your team, but will never be able to engage against good players, because your back-line will be weak. Without you in the front, taking the damage, your team will be vulnerable to death.
If you pointed out something specific maybe, that is a little bit off with my reasoning, maybe we could discuss it.
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On May 26 2012 09:42 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 07:45 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 07:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 07:34 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:58 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:48 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:35 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:13 hellsan631 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:08 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 26 2012 06:06 hellsan631 wrote:
[quote]
He just is really bad in team fights if he isn't fed like a beast. He can jump and flash to attack a target, but if you Q the wrong target, or use your jump on the wrong target, it won't be up again for the entire teamfight. From then on, he is just a lousy auto attacker, and a so-so tank. After his jump, you can pretty much ignore him because he does 0 damage to anyone he can get close to.
That said, if he is somewhat fed, his damage is enough where you are forced to focus him, and he is really tanky as well as being able to get out of a tight jam by jump stun/flash. So if you can get him farmed to hell, then he is very useful. ...what game are you playing where pantheon's cds are high and he does 0 damage? Didn't say his cd's are high, just in a normal time of a team fight, you can usually only get off 2 stuns, and 2-3 Q's, along with an E. The original stun and Q are on the engage, then you go after a target. If your not fed, your auto attacks won't do much damage, because you will be at around 4 items, 2 of which are tank. Most of his damage is on burst, and his strengths are survivability and mobility in a fight. If there is any CC, then his mobility goes down, and he is just a stun. The time-span of a team fight doesn't allow panth to shine like in laning phase. if u only have 4 items and half of them are tank items you're building him wrong. bruit - dps FM - tank Atmas - semi-tank and either warmogs - tank hexdrinker - semi-tank (not really that good of a dmg item) and depending on stuff, you rarely get non-tank boots. Usually i like to get merc treds because the cc reduction helps a ton. but if they don't have cc, usually Ninja tabi. You build him any other way he is just going to be instagibbed and worthless in the late game. Sure it goes off of each game, but these items allow him to fulfill his top-lane tanky role, while also allowing him to do good dps, and catch someone off guard. or you can build him the way outlined in the OP and do damage. come lategame you're not worthless if you position properly. that means not diving their squishies unless they're out of position. you can melt bruisers and zone/peel for your carries pretty darn well. but i mean sure go ahead and keep building him as a standard bruiser and only win games if you're fed. Considering I win my lane and are fed around 90% of my panth games (it happens because panth is so great at ganking other lanes), and that the build i'm using is what a lot of top players use (dyrus and wings come to mind). Also, the average standard bruiser build is usually wits, atmogs (or atmit), hog, and an X counter item here. Maw is really good with panth because of his passive shield. (also, LS is usually my 5-6th item depending). The build listed in the thread is your standard low elo lets go carry build that only works at the lower elo's because people don't know how to teamfight, and think that the laning phase ends at 15 minuets when the enemy tower is dead. lolol smash is low elo. very funny joke Dunno who smash is. And elo doesn't really mean much at the higher elo's. Any champ can carry, and any one can get carried. A lot of people are still bad at 2k. I can play every role well, and usually only play panth as a joke champ for top, when in normal draft. Panth is never played in competitive games, and if he was, no one would use that build. The most work i've seen panth do is by dyrus, which is where that build comes from, when he was using him to get to top 5 eu. Also, consider that the build in the OP is most likely 3-4 mo old. first you say the build is low elo shit, then when we tell you that this build is used by high elo people you say elo doesn't matter. Dyrus did use to go mallet+atmas, but that was before the atmas nerf. No one goes atmas anymore. Lots of champs aren't used in competitive play, but that's not necessarily indicative that they're bad. Champs like Xerath, Wukong rarely see competitive play but they're definitely not bad/unviable champs. What you see played in tourneys is limited by what champs the pros are comfortable with. Also, while the OP wrote the guide 3-4 months ago, the poster updates his stuff very frequently when needed. Why don't you tell us your summoner name/server/elo so we can decide the validity of your statements for ourselves since you clearly don't think much of what any of us say.
His TL username happens to be either unranked, or below 1200 on NA. I dunno if that actually him, although he just played a game yesterday with same build he described earlier.
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On May 26 2012 09:44 hellsan631 wrote:
Thats chill. Apparently if you have conflicting opinions, they don't matter. I can only draw from my experience, and whenever I see a panth that tries to build like that in the mid game, he doesn't do that well in the late game, because his team is squish so there is nothing to tank damage. You can just cc him and nuke him quickly, to where he can't get a combo off.
I personally think he works as a great tank, and yea his peel is ok. He is a champ that functions well with items. You can build him any way you like, and in some cases that build works well. But if they have a good jungler and a beefy top lane, they will just zone you in lane phase, and when ever you go to gank, it will be pretty obvious. Panth's ganks are amazing, but they are pretty easy to "sniff" out. He can tower dive, but if he is ever afk from lane after 6, the jungler should just be near bot lane waiting to counter gank a tower dive.
I've tried that build a while ago, and it can work. Usually I have to build tanky as a top laner, just in general. Panth at least needs FM + atmas, or Warmogs + Atmas to fulfill this role. Atams, even since the nerf, is an extremely good item, and worth more then its cost in AD.
Each game requires a different build, and very rarely does top lane get to build damage. With my ganks, I usually try and feed our mid, or ad carry, and help them win their lane. Building tanky helps fulfill this better then building dmg, because with tanky, you can dive and turn things around in mid-game, and while you won't get all the kills, thats not the goal.
Panths kit is built for early/mid game map control and dominance. He isn't a hyper carry, that's for sure. So as long as your team feeds, it won't matter how much you gank for them. If your strong with your positioning, you can help your team, but will never be able to engage against good players, because your back-line will be weak. Without you in the front, taking the damage, your team will be vulnerable to death.
If you pointed out something specific maybe, that is a little bit off with my reasoning, maybe we could discuss it.
Having a conflicting opinion is not the problem we have with the way you've been posting in this thread.
Let me break it down for you:
1) What you are saying is flat out wrong. This is the biggest one.
2) You said you don't know who Smash is. SmashGizmo is a TL regular (he wrote the OP and uses the forum name Mogwai) that has contributed a bunch to this community. I personally have learned a whole lot from his posts, and stream. He's one of the most respected members of this subforum and he also happens to be known for his Pantheon. He is a better player than you, and routinely dunks on people better than you.
3) Your posts came across as smug "lessons" and not as discussion points. Instead of saying "this is the way you would build panth if you weren't a low ELO scrub" try something like "this is what I've been doing with Panth and I've been getting these kind of results, lets talk about it"
Personally, I haven't seen you around before, but you have a dragoon so I'll assume you're not new to TL. I would like to personally welcome you to the LoL section and I hope we can learn from each other in the future. That's not gonna happen by criticizing our most active and frequently updated champ thread.
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yo smash, them fan bois guards you fairly well.
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On May 26 2012 09:44 hellsan631 wrote:
Thats chill. Apparently if you have conflicting opinions, they don't matter. I can only draw from my experience, and whenever I see a panth that tries to build like that in the mid game, he doesn't do that well in the late game, because his team is squish so there is nothing to tank damage. You can just cc him and nuke him quickly, to where he can't get a combo off.
I personally think he works as a great tank, and yea his peel is ok. He is a champ that functions well with items. You can build him any way you like, and in some cases that build works well. But if they have a good jungler and a beefy top lane, they will just zone you in lane phase, and when ever you go to gank, it will be pretty obvious. Panth's ganks are amazing, but they are pretty easy to "sniff" out. He can tower dive, but if he is ever afk from lane after 6, the jungler should just be near bot lane waiting to counter gank a tower dive.
I've tried that build a while ago, and it can work. Usually I have to build tanky as a top laner, just in general. Panth at least needs FM + atmas, or Warmogs + Atmas to fulfill this role. Atams, even since the nerf, is an extremely good item, and worth more then its cost in AD.
Each game requires a different build, and very rarely does top lane get to build damage. With my ganks, I usually try and feed our mid, or ad carry, and help them win their lane. Building tanky helps fulfill this better then building dmg, because with tanky, you can dive and turn things around in mid-game, and while you won't get all the kills, thats not the goal.
Panths kit is built for early/mid game map control and dominance. He isn't a hyper carry, that's for sure. So as long as your team feeds, it won't matter how much you gank for them. If your strong with your positioning, you can help your team, but will never be able to engage against good players, because your back-line will be weak. Without you in the front, taking the damage, your team will be vulnerable to death.
If you pointed out something specific maybe, that is a little bit off with my reasoning, maybe we could discuss it.
If you need a bruiser, someone to soak up damage, then you're absolutely right. Panth is awful at that. You shouldn't pick Panth when your team needs someone to be a tank. You pick Panth when you want to blow stuff up.
In teamfights, if you're trying to play him the way you'd play say Malphite or Irelia, you're gonna blow up and you're probably doing it wrong. You should be playing Panth more like you'd play an AP carry or a support; you peel off and zone bruisers/assassins with your massive damage and dive onto their carries when they're out of position.
Junglers are Panths #1 counter. If the enemy jungler is camping you, then yea, you're gonna be worthless. But that's the case for teh vast majority of champs in the game.
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On May 26 2012 10:04 Terranasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:44 hellsan631 wrote:
Thats chill. Apparently if you have conflicting opinions, they don't matter. I can only draw from my experience, and whenever I see a panth that tries to build like that in the mid game, he doesn't do that well in the late game, because his team is squish so there is nothing to tank damage. You can just cc him and nuke him quickly, to where he can't get a combo off.
I personally think he works as a great tank, and yea his peel is ok. He is a champ that functions well with items. You can build him any way you like, and in some cases that build works well. But if they have a good jungler and a beefy top lane, they will just zone you in lane phase, and when ever you go to gank, it will be pretty obvious. Panth's ganks are amazing, but they are pretty easy to "sniff" out. He can tower dive, but if he is ever afk from lane after 6, the jungler should just be near bot lane waiting to counter gank a tower dive.
I've tried that build a while ago, and it can work. Usually I have to build tanky as a top laner, just in general. Panth at least needs FM + atmas, or Warmogs + Atmas to fulfill this role. Atams, even since the nerf, is an extremely good item, and worth more then its cost in AD.
Each game requires a different build, and very rarely does top lane get to build damage. With my ganks, I usually try and feed our mid, or ad carry, and help them win their lane. Building tanky helps fulfill this better then building dmg, because with tanky, you can dive and turn things around in mid-game, and while you won't get all the kills, thats not the goal.
Panths kit is built for early/mid game map control and dominance. He isn't a hyper carry, that's for sure. So as long as your team feeds, it won't matter how much you gank for them. If your strong with your positioning, you can help your team, but will never be able to engage against good players, because your back-line will be weak. Without you in the front, taking the damage, your team will be vulnerable to death.
If you pointed out something specific maybe, that is a little bit off with my reasoning, maybe we could discuss it. Having a conflicting opinion is not the problem we have with the way you've been posting in this thread. Let me break it down for you: 1) What you are saying is flat out wrong. This is the biggest one. 2) You said you don't know who Smash is. SmashGizmo is a TL regular (he wrote the OP and uses the forum name Mogwai) that has contributed a bunch to this community. I personally have learned a whole lot from his posts, and stream. He's one of the most respected members of this subforum and he also happens to be known for his Pantheon. He is a better player than you, and routinely dunks on people better than you. 3) Your posts came across as smug "lessons" and not as discussion points. Instead of saying "this is the way you would build panth if you weren't a low ELO scrub" try something like "this is what I've been doing with Panth and I've been getting these kind of results, lets talk about it" Personally, I haven't seen you around before, but you have a dragoon so I'll assume you're not new to TL. I would like to personally welcome you to the LoL section and I hope we can learn from each other in the future. That's not gonna happen by criticizing our most active and frequently updated champ thread.
Pretty much this right here.
And yes, Smash fan boiz OP mang.
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I personally think he works as a great tank
This is pretty much all that needs to be read.
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On May 26 2012 09:44 hellsan631 wrote:Wall of text that doesn't tell us what ELO you are or what credentials you bring. + Show Spoiler +Thats chill. Apparently if you have conflicting opinions, they don't matter. I can only draw from my experience, and whenever I see a panth that tries to build like that in the mid game, he doesn't do that well in the late game, because his team is squish so there is nothing to tank damage. You can just cc him and nuke him quickly, to where he can't get a combo off.
I personally think he works as a great tank, and yea his peel is ok. He is a champ that functions well with items. You can build him any way you like, and in some cases that build works well. But if they have a good jungler and a beefy top lane, they will just zone you in lane phase, and when ever you go to gank, it will be pretty obvious. Panth's ganks are amazing, but they are pretty easy to "sniff" out. He can tower dive, but if he is ever afk from lane after 6, the jungler should just be near bot lane waiting to counter gank a tower dive.
I've tried that build a while ago, and it can work. Usually I have to build tanky as a top laner, just in general. Panth at least needs FM + atmas, or Warmogs + Atmas to fulfill this role. Atams, even since the nerf, is an extremely good item, and worth more then its cost in AD.
Each game requires a different build, and very rarely does top lane get to build damage. With my ganks, I usually try and feed our mid, or ad carry, and help them win their lane. Building tanky helps fulfill this better then building dmg, because with tanky, you can dive and turn things around in mid-game, and while you won't get all the kills, thats not the goal.
Panths kit is built for early/mid game map control and dominance. He isn't a hyper carry, that's for sure. So as long as your team feeds, it won't matter how much you gank for them. If your strong with your positioning, you can help your team, but will never be able to engage against good players, because your back-line will be weak. Without you in the front, taking the damage, your team will be vulnerable to death.
If you pointed out something specific maybe, that is a little bit off with my reasoning, maybe we could discuss it.
Just give us a number and we might actually consider you more than a joke
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On May 26 2012 10:04 Terranasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:44 hellsan631 wrote:
Thats chill. Apparently if you have conflicting opinions, they don't matter. I can only draw from my experience, and whenever I see a panth that tries to build like that in the mid game, he doesn't do that well in the late game, because his team is squish so there is nothing to tank damage. You can just cc him and nuke him quickly, to where he can't get a combo off.
I personally think he works as a great tank, and yea his peel is ok. He is a champ that functions well with items. You can build him any way you like, and in some cases that build works well. But if they have a good jungler and a beefy top lane, they will just zone you in lane phase, and when ever you go to gank, it will be pretty obvious. Panth's ganks are amazing, but they are pretty easy to "sniff" out. He can tower dive, but if he is ever afk from lane after 6, the jungler should just be near bot lane waiting to counter gank a tower dive.
I've tried that build a while ago, and it can work. Usually I have to build tanky as a top laner, just in general. Panth at least needs FM + atmas, or Warmogs + Atmas to fulfill this role. Atams, even since the nerf, is an extremely good item, and worth more then its cost in AD.
Each game requires a different build, and very rarely does top lane get to build damage. With my ganks, I usually try and feed our mid, or ad carry, and help them win their lane. Building tanky helps fulfill this better then building dmg, because with tanky, you can dive and turn things around in mid-game, and while you won't get all the kills, thats not the goal.
Panths kit is built for early/mid game map control and dominance. He isn't a hyper carry, that's for sure. So as long as your team feeds, it won't matter how much you gank for them. If your strong with your positioning, you can help your team, but will never be able to engage against good players, because your back-line will be weak. Without you in the front, taking the damage, your team will be vulnerable to death.
If you pointed out something specific maybe, that is a little bit off with my reasoning, maybe we could discuss it. Having a conflicting opinion is not the problem we have with the way you've been posting in this thread. Let me break it down for you: 1) What you are saying is flat out wrong. This is the biggest one. 2) You said you don't know who Smash is. SmashGizmo is a TL regular (he wrote the OP and uses the forum name Mogwai) that has contributed a bunch to this community. I personally have learned a whole lot from his posts, and stream. He's one of the most respected members of this subforum and he also happens to be known for his Pantheon. He is a better player than you, and routinely dunks on people better than you. 3) Your posts came across as smug "lessons" and not as discussion points. Instead of saying "this is the way you would build panth if you weren't a low ELO scrub" try something like "this is what I've been doing with Panth and I've been getting these kind of results, lets talk about it" Personally, I haven't seen you around before, but you have a dragoon so I'll assume you're not new to TL. I would like to personally welcome you to the LoL section and I hope we can learn from each other in the future. That's not gonna happen by criticizing our most active and frequently updated champ thread.
If I could give hugs through the internet, I would give you one.
On May 26 2012 10:37 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:44 hellsan631 wrote:
Thats chill. Apparently if you have conflicting opinions, they don't matter. I can only draw from my experience, and whenever I see a panth that tries to build like that in the mid game, he doesn't do that well in the late game, because his team is squish so there is nothing to tank damage. You can just cc him and nuke him quickly, to where he can't get a combo off.
I personally think he works as a great tank, and yea his peel is ok. He is a champ that functions well with items. You can build him any way you like, and in some cases that build works well. But if they have a good jungler and a beefy top lane, they will just zone you in lane phase, and when ever you go to gank, it will be pretty obvious. Panth's ganks are amazing, but they are pretty easy to "sniff" out. He can tower dive, but if he is ever afk from lane after 6, the jungler should just be near bot lane waiting to counter gank a tower dive.
I've tried that build a while ago, and it can work. Usually I have to build tanky as a top laner, just in general. Panth at least needs FM + atmas, or Warmogs + Atmas to fulfill this role. Atams, even since the nerf, is an extremely good item, and worth more then its cost in AD.
Each game requires a different build, and very rarely does top lane get to build damage. With my ganks, I usually try and feed our mid, or ad carry, and help them win their lane. Building tanky helps fulfill this better then building dmg, because with tanky, you can dive and turn things around in mid-game, and while you won't get all the kills, thats not the goal.
Panths kit is built for early/mid game map control and dominance. He isn't a hyper carry, that's for sure. So as long as your team feeds, it won't matter how much you gank for them. If your strong with your positioning, you can help your team, but will never be able to engage against good players, because your back-line will be weak. Without you in the front, taking the damage, your team will be vulnerable to death.
If you pointed out something specific maybe, that is a little bit off with my reasoning, maybe we could discuss it. If you need a bruiser, someone to soak up damage, then you're absolutely right. Panth is awful at that. You shouldn't pick Panth when your team needs someone to be a tank. You pick Panth when you want to blow stuff up. In teamfights, if you're trying to play him the way you'd play say Malphite or Irelia, you're gonna blow up and you're probably doing it wrong. You should be playing Panth more like you'd play an AP carry or a support; you peel off and zone bruisers/assassins with your massive damage and dive onto their carries when they're out of position. Junglers are Panths #1 counter. If the enemy jungler is camping you, then yea, you're gonna be worthless. But that's the case for teh vast majority of champs in the game.
On May 26 2012 07:32 Mogwai wrote:yea, I just had a game on stream where I went from 2/4/1 to 8/4/7 with Pantheon through sheer farming and positioning in fights. his late game is so potent. VOD here: http://www.twitch.tv/smashgizmo/b/319341538 Game starts @ 56:00ish
People, please, just watch this game. I get camped, go 2/4/1, then finish 8/4/7 using late game Panth, exact build in OP. I know 1 game doesn't prove anything, but Pantheon's quite capable of being strong late game and coming back from shitty early game.
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Frozen Mallet/Atma's or Warmog's/Atma's Panth is stupid. You can get a Warmog's for your one defensive item if you want (I think Ryden7 does this), but Atma's is pointless on Pantheon since the nerf.
If you look up Biotoxin (EUW Top Panth player) he also goes DBlade/Brutalizer/Bloodthirster/GA. There's a reason that's the textbook Assassin build on practically every champ.
@SmashGizmo: What is your opinion of a Pantheon who takes Zerker Greaves for better pushing/splitpushing?
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Thankfully Darius' E has a stupid long cd. Just on a theoretical level I think panth would be a perfect counter to this guy. As long as Darius maxes Q according to the standard of "9->5 s damage dealing spell cd is better than 22->12 s utility cd"
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I feel like a total boss, and kind of dirty at the same time.
I just laned as Pantheon against a Veigar. That was just.... Haha. Poor Veigar had 12 CS at the ten minute mark. Only way he could farm was with both meteor and stun, I dunno wtf their Nocturne was doing, he certainly never ganked top. I honestly think that that is likely the most one sided matchup in the game.
Normal blind pick games so fun.
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On May 28 2012 12:48 obesechicken13 wrote:
Thankfully Darius' E has a stupid long cd. Just on a theoretical level I think panth would be a perfect counter to this guy. As long as Darius maxes Q according to the standard of "9->5 s damage dealing spell cd is better than 22->12 s utility cd"
Yeah, it seems like it would be nice, but it's not. You always have to dance in and out throwing spears, which don't really chip him down for enough. And you ALWAYS have to be on your toes to avoid the hook, cause if you don't avoid it, you're pretty fucked.
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So I play on the KR server, checked out the Panth skins, saw this. I havent seen anyone talking about this so I assume its new?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eouFl.png)
It's called Anwaldo Pantheon which translated means..... nothing haha
edit: it's the type of Spear he uses called an Eonwaldo
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Yeah, it on the NA client too just called Glaive Warrior Pantheon.
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Hey I saw some people arguing about Pantheon a couple days ago, well
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/324951#stats
11 wins 1 loss with Pantheon all post 2k.
You guys argued about Bruiser and AD top. He is an AD Caster. Always played Pantheon mid.
Check my creepscore. 57 cs and 92% win rate? What? Pantheon = kill mid and roam. You can't CS boohoo neither can mid cos he's dead.
Arguing about Pantheons late game viability is just dumb when every game is won by 20 minutes.
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How the hell are you supposed to play Pant vs Darius? Just sit back and chuck spears?
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I build Pant this way.
Ad nuker in early-mid game, get a lot of kills/assists, destroy some turrets.
Tanky (physical armor) in mid game. Destroy towers, gank lanes, roam in the jungle (thanks to your ult you can go wherever you want, but not too far from your team). I consider his ult is very important for teamfights, you can split enemy team in half if you place it correctly. Works great with Amumu.
Late game, final build atmogs, mercuries, last whisper, brutalizer, and other optional stuff depending on enemy team. Main objective is to kill squishies, work in pair with your ad/ap carry. Don't stick around your team, go clear jungle. Get oracle and wards.
Darius op btw.
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EPT
