EPTedit: not to mention it's hard to land a shuriken with him in the way unless you're on top of her
someone should try it out. not me, because I suck.
[Champion] Kennen - Page 4
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
edit: not to mention it's hard to land a shuriken with him in the way unless you're on top of her someone should try it out. not me, because I suck. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
E onto her for extra MR, eat the burst, then kill her with ult + other stuff ;d You don't even need to Q until she's stunned, just have a W charged auto attack ready, ult ticks + w + autoattack stuns, then Q for sure hit... | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On December 21 2011 13:47 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Personal examples really aren't worth anything but for what it's worth I shat on every Annie with Kenne I've faced. E onto her for extra MR, eat the burst, then kill her with ult + other stuff ;d You don't even need to Q until she's stunned, just have a W charged auto attack ready, ult ticks + w + autoattack stuns, then Q for sure hit... Personal examples are better than secondhand experiences.  Your situation only works when you're ahead of Annie in items. Not that you're ahead in farm. But the simple fact that you based first and are back in lane with better stats. If you're on equal items with Annie at any time in lane after 6, I wouldn't support your advice from above. On equal ground, Annie is more likely to burst you down to 0 first, even if your total DPS is greater. She's faster. | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On December 21 2011 13:53 NeoIllusions wrote: Personal examples are better than secondhand experiences. Your situation only works when you're ahead of Annie in items. Not that you're ahead in farm. But the simple fact that you based first and are back in lane with better stats. If you're on equal items with Annie at any time in lane after 6, I wouldn't support your advice from above. On equal ground, Annie is more likely to burst you down to 0 first, even if your total DPS is greater. She's faster. I think it's unreasonable to think Annie will be even in items post-6 unless the Kennen faced massive jungle pressure for the first 6 levels. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
edit: It should be noted that, while I think Annie wins the matchup, I wouldn't really call her a counter to Kennen because, just as easily, if the Kennen is smart enough to avoid annie's burst it ends up where he can turn the tide. It's just easier to avoid Kennen's damage than Annie's. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
By the time you have money for MR/health after revolver Annie will have been able to full combo you twice. The only way Kennen actually wins that lane is if he punishes her super hard pre-6 which is tough because she can just hide behind minions and laugh at your Q, not to mention QW stun you if you try to auto + W exchange. edit: But I'd like to stress again, Kennen can at least draw the lane and if you get good jungle ganks can kill Annie. Without jungle Kennen should never ever kill Annie in lane lol. But if you at least go even you've basically won because Kennen > Annie for team fights and late game strength imo. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On December 21 2011 17:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: WTF kind of shit are you doing on Kennen that you're dying to Annie...? -_- Defensive masteries, revolver -> null magic mantle, MR runes. GG Annie. If the Kennen isn't topped off, throw on an ignite on top of the full combo and ken can easiliy die. It's just the way it is. Obviously if you play really defensive and get extra mr you'll survive, but you've also made it likely you can never gank annie. All you've done is made yourself worse lategame while Annie stays the course. That's not to say that is the wrong way to play Kennen against Annie; quite the contrary that is how I would/do. However, it simply goes back to the point that Annie has the advantage in the matchup and it's up to Kennen to adjust to not lose the lane, and win if the Annie plays poorly. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On December 21 2011 17:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: WTF kind of shit are you doing on Kennen that you're dying to Annie...? -_- Defensive masteries, revolver -> null magic mantle, MR runes. GG Annie. Annie will still win a trade assuming Kennen has all of that. She'll also just ignite you while stunned and the fact that you have spell vamp won't matter if you try to fight when her combo is done. Her Q is a pretty short cooldown, it'll just finish you off while you're mid-ult and Annie will live. Y'know, maybe if you went 21 defense and got Null Magic Mantle super early you could win trades as Kennen. I don't think you could though and the fact that Annie forces Kennen to not take 21 offense and build mercs or waste 400 gold to win his lane means she's probably a pretty good counter. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
What is this supposed to be evidence of again? | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
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-Kato-
Spain1146 Posts
I posted on the GD topic about the masteries, and it was general consensus that 21 offense was the way to go. But where would you guys put the remaining 9 points? Defensive: 30 health, 2 Armor/MR, 6 Armor/MR, 108 HP at lvl 18 Utility: 15 sec reduced Flash CD, Improved recall, 3% MS, 10 energy, buff duration. I think utility is better, Flash is huge on Kennen, 10 energy is good and even though you wont be the one getting buffs, when you get red or blue because of kills you are a beast. | ||
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R04R
United States1631 Posts
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deskscaress
United States399 Posts
On December 21 2011 09:33 overt wrote: In my experience Annie rapes Kennen in lane. Like, it's not even close. Kennen can't get close to her or she 100->0s him. no offense but i don't think you understand the lane matchup very well if you're viewing it as such kennen can't get close is such a wrong mentality... kennen doesn't need to get close. kennen can poke from 29000 range with his Q every 0.01 seconds for no mana cost. kennen v annie matchups aren't about running at each other full speed and seeing who does more damage. they're about kennen flinging his Q in her general direction every time it's off cooldown. yeah, she's gonna hide in creeps a lot, and yeah he's gonna miss a lot of Qs. but he's not restrained by mana or range, both of which are restrictions on annie. as soon as she makes a mistake, kennen can get a couple Qs on her or a Q and a charged W auto and then what can annie do? now she can't risk engaging so she has to back... while kennen regens HP with no mana costs and keeps farming. if annie engages at this point she'll lose for sure basically i just think you're seeing the lane wrong. kennen doesn't *want* to engage annie head to head from full health, that's not how you play kennen. he abuses superior range, cooldowns, and costs to wear her down, and as soon as he can engage, he wins. carnivorous sheep is also correct, simply building one of the many defensive items that are core on kennen (giant's belt for rylai's, wota, null mantle for mercs, negatron for abyssal) will put him further ahead in the matchup than an AP item by annie, AND not slow down his build or final goal. carnivorous sheep is ALSO correct in that regarding equal gank attempts from both junglers, kennen will likely edge out annie pre-6 and post-6. annie's got 0 escapes, kennen's got his OP E. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On December 21 2011 18:19 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: It's evidence that if you play right you shouldn't lose the lane? The argument is shifting from your original standpoint of: On December 21 2011 09:30 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Kassadin and Annie get shat on by Kennen -__- I agree with your most recent argument, not your initial one. I don't think Kennen or Annie should truly outright win the lane against eachother because they have to respect eachother's burst and high damage output. Kennen can't go clearing waves w/ an E/W combo and Annie can't go wandering out of her minions or too close to Kennen either. I think the advantage goes to Annie in lane, but as I stated earlier, I certainly wouldn't call her a counter. I don't think Kennen really has any counter in lane because of his excellent kit, except LB can obviously cause lots of issues for any squishier ap caster early game. I did struggle against Xerath, but I've only done the matchup maybe twice. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On December 21 2011 20:19 deskscaress wrote: no offense but i don't think you understand the lane matchup very well if you're viewing it as such kennen can't get close is such a wrong mentality... kennen doesn't need to get close. kennen can poke from 29000 range with his Q every 0.01 seconds for no mana cost. kennen v annie matchups aren't about running at each other full speed and seeing who does more damage. they're about kennen flinging his Q in her general direction every time it's off cooldown. yeah, she's gonna hide in creeps a lot, and yeah he's gonna miss a lot of Qs. but he's not restrained by mana or range, both of which are restrictions on annie. as soon as she makes a mistake, kennen can get a couple Qs on her or a Q and a charged W auto and then what can annie do? now she can't risk engaging so she has to back... while kennen regens HP with no mana costs and keeps farming. if annie engages at this point she'll lose for sure basically i just think you're seeing the lane wrong. kennen doesn't *want* to engage annie head to head from full health, that's not how you play kennen. he abuses superior range, cooldowns, and costs to wear her down, and as soon as he can engage, he wins. carnivorous sheep is also correct, simply building one of the many defensive items that are core on kennen (giant's belt for rylai's, wota, null mantle for mercs, negatron for abyssal) will put him further ahead in the matchup than an AP item by annie, AND not slow down his build or final goal. carnivorous sheep is ALSO correct in that regarding equal gank attempts from both junglers, kennen will likely edge out annie pre-6 and post-6. annie's got 0 escapes, kennen's got his OP E. this all sounds reasonable except for hitting her with the Q. If she is good I think you are literally never going to hit her with the Q unless you dive onto her. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Kennen getting a tanky item or two vs Annie is good all game anyway, it's NOT a waste, because later on you're going to be wanting to be in the middle of a teamfight with your ult running and if Annie can still blow you out of the water, you'll never be able to do that. Annie has good teamfight aoe, but Kennen's is better. | ||
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