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On January 24 2012 12:11 wei2coolman wrote:
Any opinions on AD kennen?
I've thought a bit about AD Kennen, and I guess I'll put them down and see what other people think about this. Keep in mind I'm by no means an experienced or high-Elo player. Also, I've never played or played against AD Kennen before. This is all theorycraft.
To me, it seems like AD Kennen is a cross between Caitlyn (early game harass and poor late-game steroid) and AD Jaina (CC and peeling).
During the laning phase, Kennen has some good harass. Kennen has 575 range, which outranges the two popular AD carries Sivir (500) and Graves (525) noticeably. Obviously it's not as much as Caitlyn's range, but it's probably enough to harass with. Additionally, his W proc+active is probably be easier to hit than Caitlyn's Q (or you just deny them for a long time while farming with Q), and energy regenerates much faster than mana. Kennen's E and stuns makes him hard to gank, much like Caitlyn's E and W abilities. Kennen also brings some CC to the table, although slightly less reliable pre-6 than AD Jaina's CC while creeps are around to block Q. Post-6, Kennen's ultimate stun + QW re-stun is a huge threat that other AD carries will have to play around.
Late game, Kennen's steroid (+80% AD as magic damage every 5 attacks) is probably slightly worse than or roughly comparable to Caitlyn's steroid (+50% auto damage every 6 attacks), since it's magic instead of physical and since it doesn't work with critical hits. However, his peel is comparable to Jaina's. Enemy anti-carries have to deal with a guaranteed 1-second stun from the ultimate, followed by another 0.5 second stun from Q and W procs/active. Even without AP, this deals a decent amount of magic damage: 210*3+235+185 = 1050 magic damage before resists from rank 5 Q, rank 5 W's active, and 3 shots of rank 3 R. It'll probably only be around 300-400 damage after resists, but that's a free auto-attack against the anti-carry. After the stuns, Kennen can run away with E. Kennen can't stay as far away from the fight as Caitlyn and definitely can't do as much auto-attack damage as the other AD carries with real steroid abilities, but he seems pretty hard to kill.
M5 probably had some team comp reasons for picking AD Kennen as well. Since their gameplan was so focused around the early game, Kennen's lack of a late-game steroid doesn't affect their strategy too much. Also, their team comp was sometimes light on CC. For instance, in the third game, their only CC besides Kennen was Skarner's Q and R, and Sona's R. A traditional AD carry might get jumped and killed with so little peel on the team. Finally, AD Kennen gives them the flexibility to run him on the top lane to exploit a bad matchup.
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Not necessarily. AD kennen has a decent steroid with his W. Is really hard to catch 'cause of his passive and E. Even as an AD his ultimate is still really useful, you just don't dive the entire enemy team; you use it more as a self-peel and disruption.
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On January 24 2012 12:38 Bladeorade wrote:
It's worse than AP kennen.
Ive been stomping ranked while I can...I feel like he is going to get nerfed somehow but I have no idea.
He can go mid or top and dominate.
I don't think that's a fair comparison an ap mid/solo top another is an AD carry.
It's only fair to compare to other AD carries.
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Comparing AD Kennen to AP Kennen isn't a fair comparison?
Why run AD Kennen when you can run AP? He probably has certain niches or matchups he works as AD which m5 knows how to exploit, but I can't see how running him AD is ever superior per se and especially not in solo Q.
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On January 25 2012 06:32 Bladeorade wrote:
Comparing AD Kennen to AP Kennen isn't a fair comparison?
Why run AD Kennen when you can run AP? He probably has certain niches or matchups he works as AD which m5 knows how to exploit, but I can't see how running him AD is ever superior per se and especially not in solo Q.
'Cause AD Kennen shits on certain AD carries in lane. You run him when you want to crush a lane because the other team is running something like Vayne or Graves. It's like saying that Atmogs GP is bad because Critplank GP does more damage.
AD Kennen also less team dependent then a lot of other AD carries due to his E, R, and passive allowing him to escape divers easily. I would agree that I think AP Kennen is probably better but if you know how to do AD Kennen and if it makes sense to run him (as in, you have a favorable lane) then go for it.
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On January 25 2012 06:32 Bladeorade wrote:
Comparing AD Kennen to AP Kennen isn't a fair comparison?
Why run AD Kennen when you can run AP? He probably has certain niches or matchups he works as AD which m5 knows how to exploit, but I can't see how running him AD is ever superior per se and especially not in solo Q.
Comparing AD kennen to AP kennen makes no sense at all. You either gonna pick AD kennen or another AD if you play AD. You wont pick AP kennen if you need an AD. So the discussion should be about AD kennen vs other ADs. AD kennen has good range, has some defense, a sick laneing phase, is highly mobile and has tons of CC, and on top of that you get some AoE to clear waves and do some additional damage in teamfights. In the other hand he doesn't scale as strong as the most played AD champs with a typical AD build.
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i just checked the values and it seems he has the best base attackspeed and per level attackspeed scaling in the game lol
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On January 25 2012 06:32 Bladeorade wrote:
Comparing AD Kennen to AP Kennen isn't a fair comparison?
Why run AD Kennen when you can run AP? He probably has certain niches or matchups he works as AD which m5 knows how to exploit, but I can't see how running him AD is ever superior per se and especially not in solo Q.
That's like trying to compare Annie to a Vayne, it don't work. Each are distinct roles.
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On January 25 2012 07:53 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 06:32 Bladeorade wrote:
Comparing AD Kennen to AP Kennen isn't a fair comparison?
Why run AD Kennen when you can run AP? He probably has certain niches or matchups he works as AD which m5 knows how to exploit, but I can't see how running him AD is ever superior per se and especially not in solo Q.
Comparing AD kennen to AP kennen makes no sense at all. You either gonna pick AD kennen or another AD if you play AD. You wont pick AP kennen if you need an AD. So the discussion should be about AD kennen vs other ADs. AD kennen has good range, has some defense, a sick laneing phase, is highly mobile and has tons of CC, and on top of that you get some AoE to clear waves and do some additional damage in teamfights. In the other hand he doesn't scale as strong as the most played AD champs with a typical AD build.
His big problem AD is that he doesn't have any sort of steroid unless W counts. His base AD is the same as Graves and it scales just as hard.
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On January 25 2012 09:37 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 07:53 clickrush wrote:On January 25 2012 06:32 Bladeorade wrote:
Comparing AD Kennen to AP Kennen isn't a fair comparison?
Why run AD Kennen when you can run AP? He probably has certain niches or matchups he works as AD which m5 knows how to exploit, but I can't see how running him AD is ever superior per se and especially not in solo Q.
Comparing AD kennen to AP kennen makes no sense at all. You either gonna pick AD kennen or another AD if you play AD. You wont pick AP kennen if you need an AD. So the discussion should be about AD kennen vs other ADs. AD kennen has good range, has some defense, a sick laneing phase, is highly mobile and has tons of CC, and on top of that you get some AoE to clear waves and do some additional damage in teamfights. In the other hand he doesn't scale as strong as the most played AD champs with a typical AD build. His big problem AD is that he doesn't have any sort of steroid unless W counts. His base AD is the same as Graves and it scales just as hard.
So in other words he's like Ashe, but instead of slows and an ulti as a stun he has an AoE stun in his ult and then some semi-stunlocks with a PD and his other skills. So basically he's an utility AD carry. I'd say he's an especially strong pick if the enemy team has like Akali or is based around diving the AD carry.
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So i've been fiddling around with AD kennen, I gotta say, he's pretty freaking stronk, and A LOT more fun than a lot of AD carries.
Since when I choose kennen, most people give me solo top, or mid. (usually top). I start longsword + 1 pot, into wriggles and boots.
From there I go IE, PD, BT (or LW). He's pretty strong, he does a lot of damage, and his utli and e makes him impossible to be ganked.
The one thing I was wondering was, if triforce would be any good on kennen?
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On January 25 2012 10:34 wei2coolman wrote:
So i've been fiddling around with AD kennen, I gotta say, he's pretty freaking stronk, and A LOT more fun than a lot of AD carries.
Since when I choose kennen, most people give me solo top, or mid. (usually top). I start longsword + 1 pot, into wriggles and boots.
From there I go IE, PD, BT (or LW). He's pretty strong, he does a lot of damage, and his utli and e makes him impossible to be ganked.
The one thing I was wondering was, if triforce would be any good on kennen?
starting longsword is pretty stupid tbh. if you want sustain start cloth5 or boots3. if you want damage take dblade. longsword + potion is one of the worst starts you can do.
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On January 25 2012 10:34 wei2coolman wrote:
So i've been fiddling around with AD kennen, I gotta say, he's pretty freaking stronk, and A LOT more fun than a lot of AD carries.
Since when I choose kennen, most people give me solo top, or mid. (usually top). I start longsword + 1 pot, into wriggles and boots.
From there I go IE, PD, BT (or LW). He's pretty strong, he does a lot of damage, and his utli and e makes him impossible to be ganked.
The one thing I was wondering was, if triforce would be any good on kennen?
I'm totally cool with mixing things up and sending your AD carry mid or top but honestly if you're gonna play Kennen and solo a lane you might as well play AP. Mostly cause AP Kennen compared to AD Kennen is a lot more damage and he can initiate extremely well.
You run AD Kennen to win your lane against enemy ADs. Unless you're running a weird like bruiser/support or AP carry/support bottom I don't see any reason to run AD Kennen in a solo lane.
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On January 25 2012 10:53 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 10:34 wei2coolman wrote:
So i've been fiddling around with AD kennen, I gotta say, he's pretty freaking stronk, and A LOT more fun than a lot of AD carries.
Since when I choose kennen, most people give me solo top, or mid. (usually top). I start longsword + 1 pot, into wriggles and boots.
From there I go IE, PD, BT (or LW). He's pretty strong, he does a lot of damage, and his utli and e makes him impossible to be ganked.
The one thing I was wondering was, if triforce would be any good on kennen? starting longsword is pretty stupid tbh. if you want sustain start cloth5 or boots3. if you want damage take dblade. longsword + potion is one of the worst starts you can do.
i go long sword because i can getaway from any ganks, and major damage, so i don't really die, and getting dblade slows down wriggles too much. I like boot3 in mid, but for top i feel safe with longsword pot.
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I'd just start with scepter if you want to rush wriggles, I feel longsword is silly.
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On January 25 2012 12:22 Shikyo wrote:
I'd just start with scepter if you want to rush wriggles, I feel longsword is silly.
Well I'm still trying out openings, I'll definitely try that.
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Is this jungle Kennen or something? Opening vamp scepter in lane is just asking to get crushed.
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On January 25 2012 12:37 starfries wrote:
Is this jungle Kennen or something? Opening vamp scepter in lane is just asking to get crushed.
hmm, why do you say this?
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On January 25 2012 06:41 overt wrote:
AD Kennen also less team dependent then a lot of other AD carries due to his E, R, and passive allowing him to escape divers easily.
This x1000. In solo queue, it's a real gamble as to whether your team will peel for you - it's burnt me out on Kog'maw and increased my Tristana play; if you're just looking to get to a lategame right-click-on-shit carry position while still having escapes/self-peels/utility, you can do a lot worse than Kennen (AD LeBlanc is particularly good for repositioning/escapes if your team let you get away with it, heh).
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AD kennen's been viable for such a long time. Nobody would listen to me thought, even when I play him in 1700 elo games. Huehuehue.
Original Message From NeoIllusions: You can play AD Kennen all you want but it's never seen the light of day in a tournament play. My comment was geared towards the lack of Corki players since the last patch since he got nerfed. You then editing my comment for laughs isn't exactly amusing. Show nested quote +Original Message From Soloside: Original Message From NeoIllusions:
Stop trolling. Consider this a courtesy warning. i honestly don't know why people are so against ad kennen, but w/e kays kay.
From a year ago.
 Told ya Neo.
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EPT
