EPTchoose between sunfire and warmogs. Get LW over cleaver
[Champion] Garen - Page 15
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
choose between sunfire and warmogs. Get LW over cleaver | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On December 13 2012 04:23 xes wrote: Is Sunfire worth it? It gives really nice stats for the midgame, and the passive is OK along with something like brutalizer -> sunfire, but if the game goes long then both sunfire and bruta end up taking up space and gold that couldn't been Warmogs or Whisperer. Or is the whole point of Garen now to just kill stuff before it gets to lategame and I'm bad at directing my team to take objectives? I just played a game where I built Bruta -> Sunfire -> Mercs -> Cleaver and felt really strong for the first Baron at around 25 mins. + Show Spoiler + But then our mid DC and so we couldn't push into their base. I ended up finishing Warmogs and Visage off of our ADC getting caught but then Spin2Win to salvage the fight. Basically I got really fed so they could never fight us in open space but our ADC was really behind and kept getting picked off before fights started so we couldn't push. TL;DR I ended up on Cleaver, Mercs, Sunfire, Warmogs, Visage, and then Randuins but at this point I really wish I didn't buy the bruta at all got my Sunfire/etc earlier and then picked up LW instead of bruta. But at the same time having the flat armor pen apply after Whisperer makes bruta much better (though the cleaver upgrade not worth as much). There are 7 items I feel are really good for lategame Garen and only 6 item slots what to do. Randuin's now builds out of giant's belt, so now Sunfire & Randuin's are both health + armor items that build from Giant's belt. I feel that randuin's is far superior to sunfire, and I like the armor build path of cloth -> cloth -> warden's -> randuin's way better than chain mail -> sunfire. Also the recipe for sunfire doesn't add any additional armor. Sunfire is a bit cheaper but the recipe cost only adds like +30 health or something. Randuin's has more health, more armor, and better abilities than sunfire, so if you want armor + health, go for randuin's. You could get both I guess, but that's too much armor. Also I don't like warmog's on garen, he prefers resists due to the bonus he gets from W. I think one giant's belt item + black cleaver is enough health for garen. | ||
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McFly_terran
United States15 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 13 2012 05:11 McFly_terran wrote: I've played Garen support to some degree of success. Just build tank and play with ranged AP carry and win always You support by "if you touch my AD carry, I WILL MURDER YOU"? I think the problems occur here when say... Nunu Caitlyn wards the crap out of bushes and kites you all over the place while (optionally) killing you or your carry. You probably can handle Melee supports better than ranged ones, except for alistar headbutting you off into lalaland. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On December 13 2012 05:19 sylverfyre wrote: You support by "if you touch my AD carry, I WILL MURDER YOU"? I think the problems occur here when say... Nunu Caitlyn wards the crap out of bushes and kites you all over the place while (optionally) killing you or your carry. You probably can handle Melee supports better than ranged ones, except for alistar headbutting you off into lalaland. Have you seen supportekaiser? Maxes shield, and if you get a ghost you've won the game edit: for massive lulz buy sword of the divine and get 100% crit on a full spin | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
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101toss
3232 Posts
 good night, sweet prince (on a side note, time to brainstorm new builds) | ||
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Franthier
China64 Posts
His kit is just very poor to be a support. | ||
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NoiSolpX
Netherlands20 Posts
Mid/lategame items that go well together imo are Atma's and IE. The HP from BC and Randuin's will boost the bonus damage you get from Atma's to around 50 and IE for the boost in crit dmg. For an MR item I'd go for Aegis/Bulwark if no one else on your team has it, Hexdrinker/MoM, Spirit Visage or a Mercurial Scimitar if they have ridiculous amounts of CC. I'm sure there are more options than Atma's and IE but it's been working just fine for me. You get massive damage and become super beefy when you use W at the right moments when all the burst and AOE get's thrown around in teamfights. The build is pretty adaptable imo since you have a wide variety of middle tier items you can buy and upgrade later. | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
Anyone try furor enchantment for boots yet on Garen? I'm beginning to think you can get away with not buying any items which are straight defense items (i.e. warmogs, GA, randuins) and instead get items which are a combo of offense and defense (and also happen to be great for garen), mainly thinking of phage into FM (HP), avarice into atmas (armor), and hexdrinker into MoM (MR). Other 3 items of a full build would be boots, brutalizer into BC (would get the brutalizer asap), IE as a last item. FM and MoM are both expensive but build out of items which are already very good for garen, so the build order can be very flexible depending on how the game is progressing. If I really thought I needed more tankiness after the FM, MoM and atmas combo, would consider switching out (or not getting at all) the atmas with a sunfire. Will let you guys know when I hit 2k elo with these theories... ;o One last question - is it better to upgrade your brutalizer to BC as soon as you can, or keep bruatlizer in inventory and instead start working on another item (I'd normally be thinking of adding a phage around this point)? Edit: anyone try jungle garen yet for s3? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
You want to abuse the efficiency of your base Q + E damage which means to get maximal armour pen for minimum cost and invest the rest into pure defense items because of how tanky your are with your W scaling and active it allows you to get away with a lot to kill squishy targets. LW is the best straight up damage item and brutalizer is very good in lane and after lane still nice. CDR and AD are both secondary stats but if you're doing really well it's better than nothing for damage if your team is basically useless. CDR boots don't scale well with E because the CD starts after you finish spinning, which gives a % of the CD which doesn't scale with cdr so the dps beneifts are very small then you need to consider that having a shorter CD isn't always gonig to be that useful. You start to think - why not just buy a sunfire? You get more DPS overall, and it's active all the time, helps you in lane, more than CDR boots for sure. Probably better than all the ideas you said. Hexdrinker i'd maybe consider, at least in lane, but generally bulwark and then ga are the best options for magic resist. | ||
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Djin)ftw(
Germany3357 Posts
On December 13 2012 05:41 101toss wrote: Have you seen supportekaiser? Maxes shield, and if you get a ghost you've won the game edit: for massive lulz buy sword of the divine and get 100% crit on a full spin Thats what I wanted to ask, is that a viable strat? Q the carry, then sotd and E R him to death? Cant imagine that will work on higher ELO levels, some sort of peel and sotd is useless. If garen only had a gap closer... | ||
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JeosAdn
Costa Rica432 Posts
Against ad tops, I start with dshield (which just got buffed yay) then work on brutalizer + swifties. After that, I get randuin's. Immediately after with a negatron before if I'm receiveing too much ap damage. After IE, I get warmogs and bc and finish with spirit visage. I tend to splitpush a lot, and come endgame, I feel like I'm completely immortal, and significant damage threat. I've had 4 people try to gank me to stop splitpushing, and just q away laughing. If one of them tried to defend the tower, I'll just dive them if they're squishy, or ignore them and hit the tower while spamming /l. It just feels like there's nothing the opponent can really do. In teamfights, I just e the frontline and peel for my adc. Any suggestions on how to optimize my build? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Swiftness boots don't matter that much, but I'd get them if they have a lot of slows or something, usually Q is fine. Aegis//bulwark is the best MR item. negatron sucks because spirit visage is kinda meh. GA is alright too but bulwark is more than enough with your W boosting it. Split pushing is okay if you can get away with it. Otherwise garens a teamfight monster if you are tanky enough which you should be. Replace brutalizer with sunfire against anyone who stacks armour. I know sunfire costs more but the combine cost is less than brutalizer. Your 5 final items should be something like randuins/bulwark/warmogs/BC/IE or LW get IE and LW if you don't need to be that tanky for whatever reason. (their team has to dive onto your team and focus your squihies. Cloth+5 is the only other option other htan dshield, maybe null magic+2 vs AP tops. More pots might be worth if it you don't want to play passive early but you do usually since your E is weak early ranks. Peeling isn't always the right option but it depends, it often is a safe bet though. Generally you want to support the majority of your team, if 1-2 guys are diving in you want to back them up, if most of your guys are staying back you stay back too. Garen can't really initiate so you have to go with the flow and react accordingly. | ||
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JeosAdn
Costa Rica432 Posts
Also, is lw just better, or can I get an ie if I'm getting fed? Edit: you covered my question pretty well in the first post duh. On the other hand, people aren't getting as much armor in league I warmogs this days... | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
I'm liking BC less and less with the nerfs except to support your AD carry lategame by stacking it with a single E. 20% on a little bit of health regen is so meh, compared to the stats AND the team aura you give with aegis. Heck the regen aegis gives is probably way more than the bit from spirit visage. CDR is OK on garen, but it's not as good as on other champs because your E starts cd AFTER the 3 seconds of spin so it's not really worth it it's only 100% effective on Q and W in teamfights and since CDR gets better every point from 1-40% I don't think it's that great an idea. It's good but I can't see it being optimal unless your team has bulwark already and even then a second one sounds better. | ||
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JeosAdn
Costa Rica432 Posts
Edit: looking back, maybe I'm getting too fed lately and my perspective is skewed. Blue pot on garen is a bit out there | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
E 9 second - 3 sec duration 40% cdr Q 4.8 s cd 66% increase in DPS E 5.4 s cd 3 s duration 42% increase in dps only 2/3 as good That's 50% less effective. And assuming you can always use your spells on cd of course which you cant. You're already paying for cdr when you only really benefit from it on 2 of your skills and then 1 of your skills only gets 2/3 benefits. Just be happy when you get the occasional blue buff from a kill and have your fun with ~34% cdr and don't worry about stacking it. | ||
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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