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http://imgur.com/4JcXa
Regen garen bros.
Full page of garen victories, 0 losses. The ranked games are ranked 5's though. The first on the list was a 4v5 for the first 35 minutes of the game until our volibear support reconnected and farmed bot lane super creeps because graves kept backdooring LOL.
I have replays I think if anyone wants to see them.
Also atmas is a pile of crap it feels like might be worth just going IE. IE is pretty good at garen probably better than BT now. Having some auto attack DPS is great for when you don't want to waste QE on some bruiser when their carries are too pussy to go in.
EDIT: courtesy of invaderUK http://pasteboard.co/1345326671404930.png
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Think it would work against Darius? I really, really want to bodyslam Darius with Garen... :>
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I dunno darius passive is really annoying so you have to give up even more cs than usual to heal up with passive but the plus side is darius is easily ganked and he has no sustain so if you can trade once regen to full then you can possibly force him out of lane.
Garen needs a fast level 9 more than anything in the early laning phase so losing some cs is better than having to base often.
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atmogs are not good anymore. better get mix of tanky and dps stuff.
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So, Slayer91, you're just relying on his base values for damage and just always regen, never die?
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Holy fuck, this build is stupidly strong. Hey there, it's me, 400 HP/5 Garen. Try killing me.
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On August 19 2012 09:46 zodde wrote:
So, Slayer91, you're just relying on his base values for damage and just always regen, never die?
Yep
Too many people have better AD scaling now anyway. Renek, Wukong, heck even lee has better scaling and look at his lategame. Gotta abuse what garen has. 6 second 30% damage reduce? Yes please! Good luck killing 200/200 armour 4.5k hp garen with randuins slow and 30% reduced damage who can run away and come back 20 seconds later at full hp. (go farm a lane instead of coming back to base np)
According to some math your ult actually does more damage than your combo of QE at level 16 with targets missing 1500 hp or so. (with small amounts of bonus AD) Pretty ridiculous.
I get LW and IE for damage but I only get IE as last item and only if I don't need more tank stats. I guess the more tanky they get the more damage you want, but in general they have at least 2 squishies.
Pretty key point here is that regen is really significant in lane but later on when it's not always amazingly good at the very least it's basically a free stat on warmogs randunis and dorans shield anyway so the only time you pay for regen really is on FoN. So that means in situations where regen isn't useful (you somehow get focused down and can't regen and come back in) you still were as tanky or more tanky than someone who stacked pure tank stats and where regen is useful (long teamfights, they tend to go long because you're so tanky, and any poke situations) you're completely unkillable.
BTW You can't beat jayce in lane as garen, you can just about lane because of your regen but holy shit I wouldn't pick him into jayce again, Jayce OP.
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What do you run for reds? I've been sticking to flat armor pen right now. It's ok for early damage and I'd rather take 15 ArPen than shitty tertiary defensive runes (armor reds give like only 8 armor or so...).
I tried your build two games now but couldn't really say anything about it because the rest of my team stomped my lane like I did and it were silly 20 minutes surrender (Boots 2, Double D-Shield, Warmog's). It's true so far that no one can really kill you, but I want a game with full item build first so I can see if my lategame damage is at least relevant to have the AD carry run from me.
After 21 in defense, what do you use the other 9 points for?
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AD reds 9 points for mpen cdr and the ad in the offensive tree.
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Thank you very much. Except for reds I did it just like you.
10% armor pen is nice but I feel like the 4 points in attack speed before are useless on Garen and I'd rather use CDR to increase the damage output via my abilities.
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Your ult actually can do more damage than your combo against targets at low hp.
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On August 19 2012 21:31 Slayer91 wrote:
Your ult actually can do more damage than your combo against targets at low hp.
While this is true, does that warrant spending 5 points on an ability you're going to use once a teamfight? I genuinely don't know, that's why I'm asking.
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CDR isn't a bad stat though. Attack speed is pretty useless until late late game.
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What order do you skill nu-Garen in lane, Teut? Not sure I've ever played a single Garen game before in my life, but REGEN GAREN might be just what I need to spice up my top lane play.
Edit:
On August 19 2012 04:23 Slayer91 wrote:
Full page of garen victories, 0 losses. The ranked games are ranked 5's though. The first on the list was a 4v5 for the first 35 minutes of the game until our volibear support reconnected and farmed bot lane super creeps because graves kept backdooring LOL.
I have replays I think if anyone wants to see them.
Yeah, sure, I'd be keen to see some replays.
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E>Q>W
QEEW
You can still w first for the lols though for more tankiness to scale up your regen powers.
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this build works on all top laners tbh
i think it's even better on champs with good lategame presence, like riven, jax, and warwick
it's just a really solid way to spec top lane, since you'll rarely be at a low enough health to gank, and it will render harass ineffectual
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Health/regen build on riven? :O
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I have no idea how, but it somehow works that Regen build. Although the damage is really lacking sometimes but that could be because I was missing my 6th item (IE).
However, I was never going to die and had at least enough damage to kill their carry and in most cases their support, too. After that you have 50% HP left and can join the remaining fights in the background.
But if this is so strong, I don't get why I don't see any Garen in competitive play  . Probably because there are just too many other "better" choices?
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Well the problem is garens always had a strong early game but he doesn't now and he's one of those heroes that needs to get fed to be useful because he relies on scaling off his ridiculous tank steriod on W to be effective because his damage scaling is actually really bad for a brusier. (his base damage is ok though)
"I have no idea how, but it somehow works that Regen build."
Exactly how I feel :D
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Hey guys, with Xypherous posting about garens buffs I went and did the math because I actually thought his damage was kinda nerfed.
Level 18 Garen:
Spin does 740 Damage.
At levels 1/3/5/7/9 E damage is (rounded):
640/516/400/285/228 dmg
OLD GAREN:
630/510/390/270/150
Break even points in bonus AD:
Level 1: 18.2 AD (AD reds+quints+mastery give you just this actually.. intended?)
Level 3--9 approximately the difference in total damage (taking into account the difference in scaling, and then multiplying it by 3 to get the total damage)
Level 18: ~120 AD
So you see old garen with any amount of AD from runes/masteries/dorans in early game DID do more damage but later on you need quite a bit of damage to break even with new garen. Since the scaling is hit armour pen is a lot better on new garen which is why you should probably use Armpen reds and also it explains why regen garen works so well with just a LW and last item IE: Your damage doesn't go up that much (1.1 AD scaling per second isn't even that much better than auto attack scaling..) but you can improve your trading by being tankier and regenning inbetween CDs, and later on you have ult for damage and the 30% steriod on W is one of the strongest tank steriods in the game if you are already really tanky.
The idea which I read from the riot poster was that you're supposed to build flat pen and crit and stuff so they want people to use fancy builds like ghostblade because "scaling" on crit went up and they give you the shiny tank steriod "so you don't blow up". What riot doesn't seem to realize is that a 30% scaling on tank stats is MUCH better if you're really tanky in a teamfight because it takes way more burst to kill you. In a 1v1 situation against sustained DPS well yeah it's gonig to be good to get some damage to balance your stats because no matter how tanky you get the W is only making you live 30% longer but in teamfights being "unkillable" and being able to burst an AD carry even if it's not his full HP pool means a lot while being able to 1v1 someone in a teamfight is pretty worthless which is why the ghostblade/brutalizer stuff isn't great. Why do you want a few hundred extra damage on 1 spin when you can double your EHP and still burst someone say 70% as much?
The better scaling with armpen might explain why I crushed in a taric garen lane even without going full damage.
Also Garen is really lane phase reliant right now the new guys like jayce and darius zone him and xin still crushes him. If you're losing lane as garen you're pretty screwed because you need to get high level fast to make use of your base stats and you want lots of farm to become unkillable to make up for initially doing less damage than the other bruiser.
I'm also not sure the whole regen garen is completely optimal that 3 regen you get in defensive tree is pretty tiny and I'm wondering if the 6 armpen and executioner (for your ult) and 10% armpen in offensive mean going 21 offensive is better. I'm also considering max CDR build with ludicity boots and kindlegem or brutalizer with the defensive tree/offensive tree CDR because of 50% uptime on max rank W, nearly 100% uptime on Q speed buff, and a boost to E DPS as well. CDR indirectly gives you CC reduction from uptime on W and the ability to use Q to break slows more often.
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EPT
