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So looking at the break even point, it looks like early game, just grabbing an early brutalizer and then some tankiness seems best early (stacking AD early doesn't do as much, but the armor pen is still very good)
Later, IE and more tankiness and ghostblade?
For tankiness items, Aegis, Randiun, FON, GA all seem particularly effective. CDR would be convienent but doesn't come in very many useful forms outside of bruta/ghostblade and Randuin's. The cdr from those two should be alright though - hit the ghostblade active after your stuff is on cooldown and wail away until it's back up.
No funfire garen anymore. Once you commit to a huge item like an IE, the synergy IE has with other AD / Crit items is just too good to be dicking around with magic damage. Triforce could find a place if you're filthy rich and aren't looking at tank items, but the AP and mana are completely wasted, and the sheen proc is mediocre at best on Garen. On PD, the AS isn't as good as it could be - ghostblade does it better (you only need AS for a short period of time while your QE are on cooldown. Ghostblade still gives crit, gives this "short period of AS", and gives other stats that the PD doesn't.)
LW can work late game, but you've committed so much to flat armor pen and LW makes that investment shitty.
2 big offensive items and 3 big defensive items is probably where you want to find yourself in a "final build" situation anyway.
I'm going to be trying out:
boots
[dorans to taste]
Brutalizer
Some combination of Aegis / Chainmail / Negatron / GA parts / Warden's Mail / Hexdunker
Infinity Edge
Some combination (choose 2) of Randuins / FON / GA / Maw (if hexdunker)
Ghostblade
Lifesteal has never been something Garen has been particularly desperate for - his passive should top him off when roaming around / stalling / dancing about later in the game. During a fight, raw resists to synergize with his new W seem awesome (as opposed to the flat health he preferred before)
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On August 16 2012 05:33 sylverfyre wrote:
So looking at the break even point, it looks like early game, just grabbing an early brutalizer and then some tankiness seems best early (stacking AD early doesn't do as much, but the armor pen is still very good)
Later, IE and more tankiness and ghostblade?
For tankiness items, Aegis, Randiun, FON, GA all seem particularly effective. CDR would be convienent but doesn't come in very many useful forms outside of bruta/ghostblade and Randuin's. The cdr from those two should be alright though - hit the ghostblade active after your stuff is on cooldown and wail away until it's back up.
No funfire garen anymore. Once you commit to a huge item like an IE, the synergy IE has with other AD / Crit items is just too good to be dicking around with magic damage. Triforce could find a place if you're filthy rich and aren't looking at tank items, but the AP and mana are completely wasted, and the sheen proc is mediocre at best on Garen. On PD, the AS isn't as good as it could be - ghostblade does it better (you only need AS for a short period of time while your QE are on cooldown. Ghostblade still gives crit, gives this "short period of AS", and gives other stats that the PD doesn't.)
LW can work late game, but you've committed so much to flat armor pen and LW makes that investment shitty.
2 big offensive items and 3 big defensive items is probably where you want to find yourself in a "final build" situation anyway.
I'm going to be trying out:
boots
[dorans to taste]
Brutalizer
Some combination of Aegis / Chainmail / Negatron / GA parts / Warden's Mail / Hexdunker
Infinity Edge
Some combination (choose 2) of Randuins / FON / GA / Maw (if hexdunker)
Ghostblade
Lifesteal has never been something Garen has been particularly desperate for - his passive should top him off when roaming around / stalling / dancing about later in the game. During a fight, raw resists to synergize with his new W seem awesome (as opposed to the flat health he preferred before)
Pretty much how I played Garen after they nerfed Atma's + Warmog's combo.
Boots + 3x Pot -> 1-2 Doran's blade -> Brutalizer is always core for me. From then on, I decide on how the game is going.
For defensive items, Randuin's Omen is the very best choice against AD from my experience. Many people forget about its passive slow chance that applies to the attacker. A random slow proc let's you keep up even without flash ready which is even stronger on Garen since he has no gap closing mechanic but only "hurr durr lemme run to ya I wanna beat ya up lol".
Against MR, I found Force of Nature only to be really useful when I had like 3kish HP; the regen passive was not really noticeable otherwise. However, with the new W giving a % based armor / magic resist bonus, this could be the choice to go now.
Maybe
Boots 2
Ghostblade
Aegis
Randuin's
Force of Nature
Infinity Edge
?
You have all around defensive stats and since your job is to skill the squishies, 50ish flat armor pen should be sufficient.
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Elaborate?
As far as FON, I've always found it to be a pretty niche item, since most games you just don't need to stack MR to those levels (by that late in the game, it's USUALLY the AD carry that's your biggest fear.)
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On August 16 2012 06:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Jungle Garen so broken
My god I hope you aren't trolling
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On August 16 2012 09:37 schmutttt wrote:My god I hope you aren't trolling
He is probably just watching saint jungle Garen on stream. I think he won the past two jungle Garen games.
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On August 16 2012 10:06 warscythes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 09:37 schmutttt wrote:On August 16 2012 06:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Jungle Garen so broken My god I hope you aren't trolling He is probably just watching saint jungle Garen on stream. I think he won the past two jungle Garen games.
No I actually had to play against one. It was a nightmare for me.
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The New garen is so strong.
Becuase of his new W which now lasts 6 seconds at rank 5, you can build DPS/Tank items and be a really strong anti carry and main tank.
I generally open, boots 3.
Into heart of gold, followed by Hex/Phage.
Later on chain vest-- Atmas, Mallet, Maw Guardian Angel.
This build with armor runes provides an immense 250+ arm 200+ mr with close to 300 ad.
The new garen has makes defensive items 20% stronger which is absolutely so powerful.
Snowballing your lane is no longer needed in order to be a team fight threat. If you do, a proper build to counter their carries is basically one of the strongest tanky dps i've played.
I was skeptical about the changes but after reviewing it. I would not be surprised to see him picked up or banned alot of future LoL Tournaments.
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After getting owned by a jungle Garen once and watching StV playing him a couple of times, I think Garen jungle is *really* good.
Speed: jungle Garen's speed is decent. at rank 3 his E can clear wraiths and wolves with ease; the bigger monsters can be taken down with Q.
Gank: chase with Q. You are immune to slow and you have tenacity through W. Once you are in melee range, E's damage is ridiculous (not to mention a follow up with R)
Sustain: crazy. While a lot of junglers need to go back and heal after a full clear, Garen can just walk around finding gank opportunities while he regenerates like a madman.
I have yet to seen his late game so I am not sure how well he transitions, but right now I think Garen is a good pick for the jungle role.
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Only tried jungle garen vs bots (aka no leach) so i might be way off, but boots + 3 start was really rough. What is saint using?
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On August 16 2012 22:18 zodde wrote:
Only tried jungle garen vs bots (aka no leach) so i might be way off, but boots + 3 start was really rough. What is saint using?
Tried it yesterday, I used cloth armor 5pot then went back and got boots and long sword and gankgankgank for me lol. I skilled EWEQ then R>E>Q>W (but got a leash so that might be your problem)
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On August 17 2012 00:22 LazyFailKid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 22:18 zodde wrote:
Only tried jungle garen vs bots (aka no leach) so i might be way off, but boots + 3 start was really rough. What is saint using? Tried it yesterday, I used cloth armor 5pot then went back and got boots and long sword and gankgankgank for me lol. I skilled EWEQ then R>E>Q>W (but got a leash so that might be your problem)
I tried it again in a normal game against pretty bad people. Starting boots was okayish with a good leash. As soon as E is rank 3, wraith and wolves just melt. Other than that I just ganked a lot. Spin to win is fun, gotta try it out against some better opponents.
Build was something like Boots + 3, 2 dorans, brutalizer + tabi (not quite sure what boots to get though) -> Aegis -> GA. Was really fed so I was pretty much invicible with that build, damage was too low though, gotta build more damage i guess ^^
You're definitely really tanky with just an Aegis and two dorans + your W. Fun to play, now i'll spam some games with him to see if he really has some potential 
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On August 16 2012 22:18 zodde wrote:
Only tried jungle garen vs bots (aka no leach) so i might be way off, but boots + 3 start was really rough. What is saint using?
The game I watched of Saint it looked like he opened brawlers+pot into super early avarice blade. Don't know if that's his standard, but it looked like it worked.
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On August 17 2012 00:41 Bevan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 22:18 zodde wrote:
Only tried jungle garen vs bots (aka no leach) so i might be way off, but boots + 3 start was really rough. What is saint using? The game I watched of Saint it looked like he opened brawlers+pot into super early avarice blade. Don't know if that's his standard, but it looked like it worked.
Really? Could he make a full clear with that start?
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On August 17 2012 00:50 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 00:41 Bevan wrote:On August 16 2012 22:18 zodde wrote:
Only tried jungle garen vs bots (aka no leach) so i might be way off, but boots + 3 start was really rough. What is saint using? The game I watched of Saint it looked like he opened brawlers+pot into super early avarice blade. Don't know if that's his standard, but it looked like it worked. Really? Could he make a full clear with that start?
I'd imagine he'd need a hard leash on blue and save smite for red. wolves blue wraiths wolves red might work, im pretty sure he'd get really low.
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On August 17 2012 00:54 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 00:50 zodde wrote:On August 17 2012 00:41 Bevan wrote:On August 16 2012 22:18 zodde wrote:
Only tried jungle garen vs bots (aka no leach) so i might be way off, but boots + 3 start was really rough. What is saint using? The game I watched of Saint it looked like he opened brawlers+pot into super early avarice blade. Don't know if that's his standard, but it looked like it worked. Really? Could he make a full clear with that start? I'd imagine he'd need a hard leash on blue and save smite for red. wolves blue wraiths wolves red might work, im pretty sure he'd get really low.
Gotta get a friend with me in a bot game and try that. Dunno if starting brawlers is really that good though, crit can be kinda meh
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On August 17 2012 02:16 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 00:54 Dgiese wrote:On August 17 2012 00:50 zodde wrote:On August 17 2012 00:41 Bevan wrote:On August 16 2012 22:18 zodde wrote:
Only tried jungle garen vs bots (aka no leach) so i might be way off, but boots + 3 start was really rough. What is saint using? The game I watched of Saint it looked like he opened brawlers+pot into super early avarice blade. Don't know if that's his standard, but it looked like it worked. Really? Could he make a full clear with that start? I'd imagine he'd need a hard leash on blue and save smite for red. wolves blue wraiths wolves red might work, im pretty sure he'd get really low. Gotta get a friend with me in a bot game and try that. Dunno if starting brawlers is really that good though, crit can be kinda meh
it sounds like something that might only work if you get a lucky crit or two, and you know you're not going to get counterjungled. So pretty much a build perfect for solo q.
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lvl 3 E makes small camps melt, granted (but the way up to champion level 5 is painful). But early buffs are a pain in the ass and I couldn't do a full clear even with a heavy leash at blue (had to use smite on it so it wasn't ready for red) and even then it felt pretty slow and I took a lot of pain.
However, I like him a little bit more on the lane than before, not only for his new passive. I just realized he gained the 20% resist increase passively with a single point in W. I thought you'd have to kill minions still but now gain % increase instead of flat (1 creep = 0.5 % or something, so 40 creeps = the full 20%), but hell yeah, not needing to farm creeps for the bonus is pretty strong.
Regarding defensive items: Randuin's is pretty much set for me vs AD. I struggle vs AP however. Aegies + Mercs doesn't seem to be enough when AP carries have 50+ flat spell pen (Runes + Abyssal + Sorc Boots and maybe even Haunting Guise).
And sometimes I feel too slow to really catch up in time. Anything you guys build for extra MS?
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Again I only watched one game, so I don't know if this is his standard approach to it, but when he started brawlers his team invaded enemy red, took it, then he went to his own blue and cleared from there. Having his team helping with one buff and then leashing a second makes it a lot easier and safer, obviously.
That said, he didn't have his smite for the blue, so it's probably safe regardless. Don't think you'd be able to gank on that first clear, though - go back, get avarice, gank if they're slow lanes and wait for boots otherwise. Avarice, HoG, Brutalizer, Phage looked like his early item goals.
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Garen seems like such a strong lane bully vs melee toplanes, you can freeze the lane with your passive so easily, and then you win trades really hard if they go melee with you, and you are super hard to gank because of your w and q.
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EPT
