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On February 19 2014 17:42 RouaF wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 10:21 Sufficiency wrote:On February 19 2014 01:07 DrunkenOne wrote:On February 18 2014 05:51 Sufficiency wrote:On February 18 2014 02:48 Kingsky wrote:
lanewick is INSANE you guys should try it. always heal never die His mana problem is really problematic though. That's like his only problem. He is one mana cost reduction on Q away from being fotm. I am not too sure what to do about his mana. Maybe starting Doran Ring and go for 5-22-3? Get Feast from Offensive tree and 3 points in mana regeneration from Utility. His Q is a really strong spell, but the 110 mana cost at rank 5 is absolutely retarded. His only problem? How about no pushing power, arguably the worst last hitting in the game due to a terrible animation, and no way to escape ganks except hoping someone gets low enough for his E to activate. His positives outweigh a lot of this, but saying that his only problem is mana is pretty disingenuous imo. WW gets absolutely shat on early on by pretty much every viable top except Mundo, since Mundo's early game is also terrible. Even if you play passive and survive early on, you likely are behind in CS due to getting pushed to tower and his terrible last hitting. Your opponent can go and buy and return to lane and not miss any CS since WW can't shove at all.And even if you somehow keep even with CS, by mid and late game you fall increasingly behind due to being unable to quickly kill a wave or blow up a jungle camp. As far as start and masteries, I like going D-ring and 1/22/7. Feast barely gives back any mana at all to be worth dumping 5 points in offensive, and the health you regain is pointless thanks to all your free sustain. I like 7 in utility so you can get 3 points in summoner cdr, since WW has no escape, flash ult is so powerful, and ignite is an important part of his single target burst. On February 19 2014 00:08 YouGotNothin wrote:
Didn't Darien build an early chalice on Lanewick in an LCS game? I can't recall which game, but it was against an AP top like Mundo so stats really weren't wasted. You would probably sit on it until late game and then sell/upgrade to Mikhaels maybe. Early chalice helps somewhat with mana problems, but he can still run out spamming Q since its cost is so ridiculous. And even then, chalice gives you no defense against an AD top, and spending 880 gold on mana regen leaves you even farther away from his core items. Against AP its fine, but against AD its not the best buy imo. As long as you don't really try to trade with Q until you are level 5+, and make sure you have enough mana for a Q->ult->ignite->Q combo at 6, you should be ok. I feel his lack of pushing power is not THAT bad. Note the emphasis. I recognize that the lack of waveclear is a problem, but I argue that it's not as bad as, say, Trundle. Why? 1. His last hitting is decent. Even without AD runes his passive provides a little bit of damage to allow you to stay ahead of the curve. 2. You can't pressure WW at the tower or dive him post 6. As soon as you draw tower aggro he will press R and you are screwed. Very different from Trundle. 3. He has amazing roam himself and his R has relatively low cooldown, which counterbalances his lack of waveclear. Very different from Trundle again. Yeah the problem being that if you want to roam you need to shove the lane first, ww has amazing roaming potential but can't shove so roaming is a huge gamble because if it doesn't work you will lose tons of cs/xp + your tower. Add to this the fact that Renekton is probably the most frustrating champ in the game to lane against (+is picked a lot and never banned) and you have a sad wolf again.
You don't really roam on WW until their tower is gone. But you can stay in lane way longer than most champs which gives you a bit of a lead. Also sunfire first helps this but I like rushing BORK if im doing good.
also his last hitting is fine, he is one of the few champs in the game that actually has an aa animation that takes a while to get used to. but once you're used to it hes fine at csing; he has pretty decent AA damage.
Using W is probably better for waveclear than Q lol.
EDIT: actually you can roam if you can push the other laner out of lane. i.e. if its not renek or they are bad.
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I feel Warwick is very strong right now and he should be played more often as a jungler.
Runes: 9 AS red, 4 flat armor yellow, 5 scaling health yellow, 9 scaling MR blue, 3 MS quints or a mix of MS and AS quints.
Mastery: 2-25-3. Grab Double-edge swords and Butcher from offensive, 1.5% MS from utility, and dump the rest in defense in any way you like.
Item build:
Standard build: Wriggle -> BotRK -> Randuin's -> any two defensive items you want
More damage build: Wriggle -> BotRK -> Wit's End -> Randuin's -> any defensive items you want
Boots: Tabi and Merc are the obvious choices, but CDR boot isn't too bad either if you think you want to gank as much as possible.
Go for Damage?: If you go for Wit's End in conjunction with Feral Flare and BotRK, your ult will do a LOT of damage. And I mean a *LOT* of damage. When you use your ult, you hit your target 5 times and each time applies on-hit effect, so you do 5% current health damage per hit, plus +X magic damage from Feral Flare and Wit's End, plus your passive damage, and finally your Wit's End's MR shred which you can follow up with your Q. With 3 damage items, you can devastate a squishy with your R following by a Q and BotRK active - all by yourself. This can be very effective if your team somehow lacks damage (but does NOT lack in tankiness).
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Is the wriggles needed to be rushed?
Can't you go like madreds->cutlass->wriggles ?
And what do you think of Cdr blues?
The downside of going cutlass before wriggles is that you do not benefit from your increased ganking potential stack wise. But otherwise it feels good for dueling/ganking purposes. Especially with all the movement speed you can actually make ganks happen without your ult if necessary
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On June 02 2014 19:56 Bam Lee wrote:
Is the wriggles needed to be rushed?
Can't you go like madreds->cutlass->wriggles ?
And what do you think of Cdr blues?
The downside of going cutlass before wriggles is that you do not benefit from your increased ganking potential stack wise. But otherwise it feels good for dueling/ganking purposes. Especially with all the movement speed you can actually make ganks happen without your ult if necessary
If you are going to get Wit's 3rd item and merc treads as your boots, then the CDR is probably a good choice. If you don't get Wit's, I'd keep mr runes. I always hate the influx of mr with no armor that building Wit's gives you.
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I still play a lot of ww jungle in D1 (my most played champ this season) but I don't build feral flare any more. The timing just kicks in too late, warwick isn't a quick clearer. I still go for the "old" build of ancient golem, mobi boots, sunfire with good warding and mana pots it works very well.
I've tried pretty hard to make feral work in the current patch but failed, my winrate went down a lot despite being D2 at the time. But maybe it's just my playstyle !
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Getting Wit's End will definitely make you squishy. It is the price to pay for going for more damage.
However, depends on your team, this may be effective because a fully channeled R on a squishy while you have Wit's End will hurt a lot. Not only do you get the 42 magic damage per hit, you also reduce your target's MR by 5 per hit to a max of 25. Then you follow up with a Q after your target has 25 less MR..... and congrats, you just removed 50%-75% of a squishy's health by yourself.
It is a risky build, but quite fun. Don't do it against Janna, by the way.
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On June 03 2014 03:41 RouaF wrote:
I still play a lot of ww jungle in D1 (my most played champ this season) but I don't build feral flare any more. The timing just kicks in too late, warwick isn't a quick clearer. I still go for the "old" build of ancient golem, mobi boots, sunfire with good warding and mana pots it works very well.
I've tried pretty hard to make feral work in the current patch but failed, my winrate went down a lot despite being D2 at the time. But maybe it's just my playstyle !
Doesnt your clear time feels a little bit lackluster without any damage item? Or do you just gank a lot?
I really dont like feral flare but i thought atleast on warwick and yi it can have some use, although on warwick i feel like i dont get a whole lot of farming done after level 6 due to the gank.
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On June 03 2014 06:13 Bam Lee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 03:41 RouaF wrote:
I still play a lot of ww jungle in D1 (my most played champ this season) but I don't build feral flare any more. The timing just kicks in too late, warwick isn't a quick clearer. I still go for the "old" build of ancient golem, mobi boots, sunfire with good warding and mana pots it works very well.
I've tried pretty hard to make feral work in the current patch but failed, my winrate went down a lot despite being D2 at the time. But maybe it's just my playstyle ! Doesnt your clear time feels a little bit lackluster without any damage item? Or do you just gank a lot? I really dont like feral flare but i thought atleast on warwick and yi it can have some use, although on warwick i feel like i dont get a whole lot of farming done after level 6 due to the gank.
I gank every time my ult is up, it's pretty straightforward. Do I have ult ? If yes gank if not farm or recall if you need to buy. You don't need to clear very fast when you get bonus gold from conservation, just make sure to spend your stacks between ult ganks. Since ww is so binary it's just about finding the right place/right time to ult.
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On June 03 2014 06:13 Bam Lee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 03:41 RouaF wrote:
I still play a lot of ww jungle in D1 (my most played champ this season) but I don't build feral flare any more. The timing just kicks in too late, warwick isn't a quick clearer. I still go for the "old" build of ancient golem, mobi boots, sunfire with good warding and mana pots it works very well.
I've tried pretty hard to make feral work in the current patch but failed, my winrate went down a lot despite being D2 at the time. But maybe it's just my playstyle ! Doesnt your clear time feels a little bit lackluster without any damage item? Or do you just gank a lot? I really dont like feral flare but i thought atleast on warwick and yi it can have some use, although on warwick i feel like i dont get a whole lot of farming done after level 6 due to the gank.
I think Warwick is basically the saviour of Feral Flare. This items is so bad right now that the only champion you should build it on is Warwick.
No I do not think it's good on Yi. No, it's definitely not good on Nocturne.
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On June 03 2014 13:58 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 06:13 Bam Lee wrote:On June 03 2014 03:41 RouaF wrote:
I still play a lot of ww jungle in D1 (my most played champ this season) but I don't build feral flare any more. The timing just kicks in too late, warwick isn't a quick clearer. I still go for the "old" build of ancient golem, mobi boots, sunfire with good warding and mana pots it works very well.
I've tried pretty hard to make feral work in the current patch but failed, my winrate went down a lot despite being D2 at the time. But maybe it's just my playstyle ! Doesnt your clear time feels a little bit lackluster without any damage item? Or do you just gank a lot? I really dont like feral flare but i thought atleast on warwick and yi it can have some use, although on warwick i feel like i dont get a whole lot of farming done after level 6 due to the gank. I think Warwick is basically the saviour of Feral Flare. This items is so bad right now that the only champion you should build it on is Warwick. No I do not think it's good on Yi. No, it's definitely not good on Nocturne.
After testing it on yi some more i definitely agree. And yea its terrible on noc.
The only reason i do lack it to some extent on warwick is that due to the change on wriggles you can get the stacks going pretty well. Warwick is able to gank pretty well by the time the wriggles is up. Also the nerf on the sustain doesnt bother him too much
What is your take on tiamat for clearing/farming purposes? Overkill? Do you prefer not to take that much farm from lanes/invest so much time into farming in the jungle?
Botrk does have the better dueling stats, but i was thinking about going spirit stone->Tiamat->Tank for a tanky warwick build.
Feral flare is probably slightly better for farming only the jungle, but with the tiamat you can get lanes shoved out pretty fast. I have not tested it yet and in theory it doesnt sound very promising, just wanted to know if you had some experience with tiamat ww outside of the top lane.
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Are you guys crazy it's amazing on nocturne
Like seriously you just build madreds -> bork -> finish flare and then go full tank and you're unstoppable
It's like the build that got me through plat 1...
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And wtf tiamat warwick is that a joke or is there some upside to it that i'm unaware of?
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Yeah don't go tiamat on warwick... you will clear faster but that's it. You need some tankyness, if you want some aoe clear get sunfire, it's great when chasing with E.
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On June 03 2014 20:36 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Are you guys crazy it's amazing on nocturne
Like seriously you just build madreds -> bork -> finish flare and then go full tank and you're unstoppable
It's like the build that got me through plat 1...
It is not worth it on Noc anymore.
In terms of power, you won't get too much more from FF while sacrificing your early game almost entirely. You no longer get scaling health steal and the damage got nerfed.
You also won't get much more gold with Wriggle than with Elder Lizard. In fact lizard will net you more gold and you can have a more balanced playstyle.
Furthermore, Wriggle has no CDR. You need some CDR on Noc, particularly post level 16 - because the 100 seconds cooldown on R is very awkward and you can't use R in two consecutive fights. Lizard provides 10% , which is crucial. Even before 16 CDR is still important because you are practically useless with a damage oriented build and R on cooldown.
Also, don't take my words for it. Ninjaken is a (iirc) challenger Nocturne player and he no longer builds Wriggle on him.
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On June 03 2014 20:37 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
And wtf tiamat warwick is that a joke or is there some upside to it that i'm unaware of?
No need to be rude just wanted to have some discussion on it cause i have personally never tried it and was curious.
On the topic of feral flare:
It just feels slow and no longer gets that ridiculous in the late game which is why it doesnt feel very rewarding to sacrifice your early game for it imo
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Even if you think about it that way, the Spirit items are still really, really bad on WW.
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On June 04 2014 01:21 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 20:36 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Are you guys crazy it's amazing on nocturne
Like seriously you just build madreds -> bork -> finish flare and then go full tank and you're unstoppable
It's like the build that got me through plat 1... It is not worth it on Noc anymore. In terms of power, you won't get too much more from FF while sacrificing your early game almost entirely. You no longer get scaling health steal and the damage got nerfed. You also won't get much more gold with Wriggle than with Elder Lizard. In fact lizard will net you more gold and you can have a more balanced playstyle. Furthermore, Wriggle has no CDR. You need some CDR on Noc, particularly post level 16 - because the 100 seconds cooldown on R is very awkward and you can't use R in two consecutive fights. Lizard provides 10% , which is crucial. Even before 16 CDR is still important because you are practically useless with a damage oriented build and R on cooldown. Also, don't take my words for it. Ninjaken is a (iirc) challenger Nocturne player and he no longer builds Wriggle on him.
Flare is still a monster amount of damage late game and you absolutely do not sacrifice your early game. How? What is it about the other items which make them so much stronger on Nocturne? Your early game is stronger with madreds -> botrk -> flare because you get an early cutlass, which provides a LOT of benefits, and you only really sacrifice what, a 30 extra true damage (that doesn't stack) proc? Are you having a hard time clearing camps with nocturne or something? Does that 30 extra damage compare with a cutlass proc/slow?
Also I used to duo with Ninjaken back when HoG was in the game, he and I both played Noc...
But my main point is that Nocturne maybe sacrifices a SMALL amount of early game pressure by going madred's into cutlass compared to going SotEL, but you sacrifice a HUGE amount of late game potential by not going Flare. Madred's -> BotRK -> Flare -> Full tank.
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On June 04 2014 05:27 Bam Lee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 20:37 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
And wtf tiamat warwick is that a joke or is there some upside to it that i'm unaware of? No need to be rude just wanted to have some discussion on it cause i have personally never tried it and was curious. On the topic of feral flare: It just feels slow and no longer gets that ridiculous in the late game which is why it doesnt feel very rewarding to sacrifice your early game for it imo
I wasn't being rude, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and asking if you were joking because that's obviously, obviously terrible
And PS: Warwick doesn't have an early game
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Eh Tiamat still has that AD scaling on WW ult and it does what Fiora's ult does: the whole 5 autos for 20-60% damage in an area. Why is Fiora with Tiamat so good if Warwick isn't?
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Because Fiora is untargetable and uninterruptable and each of her ult hits splash AoE over multiple targets in a wide area as her primary source of damage while Tiamat/Hydra on Warwick only hits people in the radius of the single champion he targets while being interruptable and his job is to stick to a single target and chase down stragglers. It's basically the exact opposite. Splash adds damage to Fiora's ult on each target. Warwick's doesn't even affect his target outside of the AD.
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EPT
