EPTIsn't nasus still "do whatever you need to survive early/midgame" in choosing items/runes/masteries? Hence why you look who you think you'll go against, get the appropriate armor/mr runes, defensive masteries. Though I've been told that new shield is really cost efficient but what about going for some regen/pot/wards? I usually prefer the safety provided by the ward.
[Champion] Nasus - Page 26
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
Isn't nasus still "do whatever you need to survive early/midgame" in choosing items/runes/masteries? Hence why you look who you think you'll go against, get the appropriate armor/mr runes, defensive masteries. Though I've been told that new shield is really cost efficient but what about going for some regen/pot/wards? I usually prefer the safety provided by the ward. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 18 2013 02:49 JimmiC wrote: I named dropped because basically every TOP ADC and Support I looked at uses a mix of quints. whether its 2 LS and 1 AD on ADC or various other ones. All of which you say is bad. Not to mention anything I say you just ignore. I thought you might not Ignore Maknoon, Dyrus, Voyboy, Balls, and so on. I was wrong, they all are too dumb and inexperienced to think about putting armor on a weak early game top laner. Also, they took the time to make a top lane basically nasus specific rune page, Hence the Lifesteal, do you really think that they considered nothing else? probably ad armpen and hp regen were considered. dont hink ive seen anyone use resist quints except wickd. On November 17 2013 12:41 JimmiC wrote: Its pointless to argue with you because you won't listen to anything. If you still think mixing quints is bad when TONS and TONS of pros, even the best of the best do it I'm not sure what will possibly convince you. Sure armor gives you indirect sustain, so does health quints by your logic, sort of in the sense that you take less damage. How about GP gives you indirect armor cause you can buy more later... whatever lets make a bunch of silly indirect connections while were at it. But more life steal helps you heal more because it actually brings back health, DIRECTLY. To all those that you don't need LS because you have it. You have armor already too. And basically every item you buy is going to add to it. So over time that tiny amount of armor or mr is going to mean even less as the game goes on. (not as good scaling as LS) You completely ignored my points here. Mixing quints is not good without a good reason. (not sure about the 2 LS 1 AD, I think its standard for some reason, might be some cutoff point for LS. With 0% ls 4% more is a big difference, so its possible. If you already have 14-20% ls it makes it much less likely though. If you can give me some examples of pros who used pages with mixed quints in some game and I don't agree with them then you have a pretty big selling point in saying that I'm wrong but you just seem to misunderstand what I was trying to say. Health quints give you indirect sustain. The sustain is equal 80~hpxyour armour reduction so about ~160ish. 12 armour gives you 12% of the total hp you get which is a function of your base hp, ult hp, regen, pots, and lifesteal. If you have ~1.5k hp with ult, that's 180 health. If you use 5 potions to heal 750, and regen 250, that's another 120 health. If you are getting 6 auto hits for 70 each and 2 q's for 200 each lets say, (kinda low actually even for early game but w/e) thats about 1k per wave, at 17% lifesteal you're getting 170 extra hp per wave, if you stay in lane for 5 minutes (TP cd), thats 10 waves so 1700 extra hp per wave, the 12 armour gives bonus 204 hp. However in this case, lifesteal at 6% is giving 600 hp over 5 minutes. So they are pretty even here, if you are last hitting every creep and 2auto+q combos. Armour is slightly better in above scenario because it helps in 1v1, or anytime you want to go back earlier than the tp cooldown armour is better. Of course, later in lane lifesteal gets better, but in teamfights they are probably closer to even at best (depending on how hard you get kited, lifesteal quints become either nearly useless or better depending on if you're trying to kill squishies in 3 q's or beating down bruisers all day). I guess maybe in a situation where you let yourself get harassed constantly but still are last hitting every creep but the harass is mostly a problem later (maybe vlad is the best example actually), lifesteal is better than flat magic resist. I find though if you're getting harassed super hard to the point its a problem it means you can't last hit all the ranged creeps so you're only autoing about half as much and all-ining is something you want to do more and resists are a bit better for that. On November 17 2013 12:41 JimmiC wrote: If I bring up why I don't use them, or pros or other high diamonds don't use them you always say "they never thought of them" talk about arrogance, yeah no one though of taking extra armor or mr top lane as a weak early game character. Heres again why LS are better. • Greater Quintessence of Armor(4.26 Armor): These can be taken against hard AD lanes such as Riven and Darius. They don't scale as good as life-steal but can be used to keep from getting blown up early pre-6. And as I mentioned personally I have no problems not getting blown up and would rather scale better into the mid and late game. Also, this post is really for everyone but Slayer, who thinks he knows more then everyone including the top pros. But others should give LS quints a try. They are effective, and super fun to play with, I almost always start dorans shield and run 9/21 to compensate for early weakness. And learn the matchups and when you need to stay back. Armor quints/MR are not awful, they are just not optimal, and they just are as fun to use. I contest the point that lifesteal is better later. Unless you are vs a heavy bruiser comp most people in range are going to die quickly or kill you first, rarely do you get into a prolonged fight where lifesteal makes the difference. For example, against a 2k target, you need to do about 3k base damage to kill him, but probably 500 of that will be from ult and E so let's say 2.5k. Lifesteal heals you for 150. If you have 3k hp yourself armour increases your EHP by 360. So armour here is actually more than twice as good. Even if the target has LW it's better. You also must consider the fact that when you play nasus you're not the biggest dps'er on your team so you can't always expect to be killing targets from full to zero. You might assist the kill with W+Q+2 autos and then you're only lifestealing for like 50 more bonus hp while armour is still just as good because you still can't be ignored and you're that much harder to kill. Also you need to stop acting like I'm being arrogant and unreasonable when you don't provide anything but words insults and namedropping to support your argument. Following the pros is usually a good idea but it doesn't give you personally any authority at all on your argument at all. (It does highly increase the chance that the guy doing something different is wrong however) | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
I did mention the 1 guy who said resist quints were useable in a hard lane. Most lanes are hard when you first pick nasus however and even if you don't I'd recommend being generally safer. The reason I suggest they didnt consider quints is as I said above I've seen nobody use them ever except for wickd. It's similar to nobody using champions that turn out to be "op" and then get nerfed again. Nearly all the time the champions aren't good but you can't always tell because nobody plays them. I give what you say little value because you say little of value, you don't provide any math at all or good reasonig you just seem to misunderstand the maths of the game completely as shown by your attempts of mocking my argument (with the health quint for example) | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
The reason LS quints arent mentioned is because when I originally wrote the original guide they werent in the game, and when they were introduced, well nasus has passive lifesteal so who cares. The health quints thing was a terrible example because again its not about whether something is a effective its about how effective it is and health quints were obviously and demonstrably terrible, while at least lifesteal quints vs armour quints is pretty close | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Nasus has armour to start with but armour is a stat you want and buy while lifesteal isnt. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
If you auto-Q-auto you do 2x57 + (57+30) = which is 201 damage. With no lifesteal quints you get 28 HP back. With Lifesteal quints you get 40 HP off same damage. Now say you have armor Quints instead. that gives you an additional 13 armor. That is 13% more eHP than not having those quints against physical damage. That means your 28 HP is now 32 HP. Sure, LS quints win in this small interaction, but thge thing is that when you consider the other 600 HP you have at level 1 and the typical 3-5 HP pots you have at level 1 it tilts quite dramatically in the favor of armor pretty hard. You need to auto-Q-auto 20 times before the LS quints break even with only 3 pots. With five pots it is almost 30 auto-Q-autos. It is literally impossible to auto the 60-90 times it is required for LS to match Resists. The other thing is, after the 10 minute mark and you have 7-8 levels on you, the 90 HP you get every level is significantly more impactful than the +3 damage you get every level. 3 AD is another 0.18 HP per auto attack with LS quints compared to no LS quints. Yum. The armored nasus gets another 11.7 eHP every level. That makes a pretty big difference. At level 10 that is 117 HP. Thats huuge. The other thing is that armor scales much much better. The more HP you have the considerably better that 13% eHP will be. They also scale much much better with your ultimate and the passive. I'd say armor is better against anyone that does most of their damage through physical means. If they totally mixed like say Shyvana, then alright LS probably better, but against a Renekton, Riven, or Pantheon? GIve me Armor every day of the week. | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
-.- I just showed the maths. Point is, in a lot of applications resists are better. In a lot of applications LS is better. | ||
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barwick11
44 Posts
I see a lot of builds recommend Iceborn on Nas, but, unless I play him vastly different than everyone else on the planet, it seems like he shouldn't really have high base damage (most of his damage comes from his absurd stacks on Q). Now, if that's the case, and say by the time I get iceborn I might have 150 base AD and 500 stacks on Q, and I proc my Q, does it do 187 damage to enemies around, or does it do 812.5? Basically, I don't THINK the stacks on Q play into the damage the iceborn is doing, correct? That would just be absurd. Same question for Trinity. If that's the case, then why are people bothering with Sheen, Iceborn, or Trinity on Nas? Seems like it could be replaced with a better item, but maybe I'm just missing something (because I still get it anyhow). | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
EDIT: He actually has 116 AD at level 18. So he gets 348 AD total without his Q when he uses a skill. Then his Q comes in for another 400 or so damage. This is something like 778 AD pre-soak. So... a lot. And he's extremely tanky, and he has a good AD nerfer. | ||
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barwick11
44 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
IBG AoE is just 125% of your base damage not affected by what skill you use. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On November 18 2013 06:19 JimmiC wrote: Oh so while you were saying pro's never considered Armor, the real story is you never considered Lifesteal. And just so you know nasus has armor to start as well, so who cares, beauty logic my friend. Much like your pizza theory. At any rate I believe LS are the best. I like to run 2 with 1 MS to give me a slightly better escape and chase, I also like the speed from triforce and more single target damage. I get froheart to compensate for the missing armor. I don't think resist quints are bad I just don't think they are as good and do not fit my play style. Many people tend to agree with me, So I think it's valuable for people reading this guide to see the alternative. that being said do whatever u're little heart desires You're retarded JimmiC Slayer is better at this game than most NA "pros" and I say that as a real-life friend of Dyrus LISTEN TO SLAYER | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
FIX HIS E BUG RITO PLS | ||
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