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Resists become exactly as good the more you get them. The first 10 armour gives you 10% of your hp in raw damage needed to kill you and so does the last 10 armour you get.
The %'s might seem misleading if you don't really understand how they work.
Resists get worse RELATIVE to health (meaning they can still be better if you have lots of hp) so the best choice is normally to balance health and resists. However in laning phase effectively you have a lot more health because of pots/regen/lifesteal that's why everyone runs resists in lane and not hp, and also nasus has a health boost in R and 20% passive lifesteal so even later on resists are slightly more favoured.
600 Q on 35 minutes is pretty good. Normally you lose opportunities to farm Q after lane but if you don't 600 is a great benchmark
Being able to 1 last hit AA mininons and back to resist is great, but the AD quints are giving you only a slight boost in AD so maybe 90%+ of those minions you would have lasthit anyway (more or less depending on how good you are at judging tower damage and minion hp - easiest way is to look at the numbers directly and quick mental calc)
and then maybe the last 5% you wouldn't have last hit anyway or having resists would have let you soak the harass.
I mean the figures are just pulled out at a guess but there is definitely incentive for both choices
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This pretty much sums up my opinion of what's going on here:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mFP1k7U.png)
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On November 16 2013 08:37 JimmiC wrote:
I think it's a crazy argument because both LS quints and MS quints are better on him. I suggest 2 of 1 1 of the other. OR armpen. Every diamond nasus I've seen, so ones that have written guides, and my own experience all tell me that it is better. Mainly because it impacts the entire game, And you can survive with dorans, and u don't need the ad to last hit once u just used to hit, just know when to double tap under tower. Or use Q which is the thing anyhow.
Nasus has 14/17/20% life steal as his passive. Adding ls with quints is far from as impactful as it is on an ADC especially since he is melee. I would advice you to use MS or ArPen quints. ArPen reds if you are good AD reds if you are bad.
Build wise I recommend aiming for resists and 40% CDR. Add last wisper and or one sheen based item if you like to do violent things ;-)
Ps. Don't tell anyone but his brother is also OP ^^
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On November 16 2013 08:37 JimmiC wrote:
I think it's a crazy argument because both LS quints and MS quints are better on him. I suggest 2 of 1 1 of the other. OR armpen. Every diamond nasus I've seen, so ones that have written guides, and my own experience all tell me that it is better. Mainly because it impacts the entire game, And you can survive with dorans, and u don't need the ad to last hit once u just used to hit, just know when to double tap under tower. Or use Q which is the thing anyhow.
LS quints aren't bad but I don't think you really want to rely on lifesteal later on and early game I think they're not the best because in a lane you get to lifesteal a lot you are already fine because of your passive and when you are being harassed a lot then they are useless because you're taking more damage than you gain hp from lifesteal trying to abuse it.
Meanwhile resists make your passive lifesteal more effective, make your base hp more effective, and make all sources of regen more effective (hp/d shield/base/leveling hp)
MS quints are only 1.5% ms. It's a very small amount if you already have ghost and a huge movement slow so I can't see it making a big difference compared to having a stronger laning phase.
For example if you have 2 lifesteal quints, thats 4% lifesteal. So ~4 hp a hit if you count Q lifestealing more and autos less.
with a passive 20% 10 more aromur from quints (think they only give 8 and lifesteal is 14-17% early but w/e) is giving you 10% more raw damage needed to kill you so its effectively additional 2% bonus lifesteal. If you count the fact that the armour is better everywhere else it makes sense that lifesteal probably isn't worth getting.
If you're an ADC and you're constantly autoing creeps its different, but for someone who gets to last hit only and if he's freehitting he already has won the lane whats the point of getting more lifesteal?
You say my argument is crazy but you give no back up at all for why LS MS quints are good other than random claims you make. Like "MS is good all game" so is AD. So is resists. How good? My argument is that diminishng returns on MS when you're ghosting means MS is meh then and since your slow is so debilitating you can close gaps when thats up too, so the range of periods where you can't catch someone is when W and ghost are both on CD, (almost never cause W is nearly constantly up at max CDR), or when you're CC'd in which case 1.5% ms is useless anyway.
Feels like you are justifying LS/MS 2:1 combo very randomly because it aesthetically feels right to you rather than any solid reasoning. I don't think you'd even notice if you accidently changed to another runepage because the extra LS/MS is so small.
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I don't like your argument that lifesteal is useless because if u freely lasthitting well you are winning the lane. well not always
In certain matchups you can push the lane. Like my last matchup against a ryze top, i had lifesteal quints, i push the lane from the start of the laning phase and even thought he was harassing me i constanly applied pressure because he had mana and after a certain time he was oom. Now if i didnt had applied pressure he could have freely go back when he wanted to get his tear and/or catalyst but he was being kept at his tower and the harass became less and less stronger with no mana. He recalled when we had 1500 gold. It was very bad for him.
Coming back with lane instantly with teleport i had enough resistance to apply pressure again and again and won my lane
lifsteal quint is good against olaf also (warning :don't pick nasus vs olaf lol) cause of the true damage harass, against singed (push the lane + freefarming), against renek (play smart but u can push the lane), vs malphite/zac/elise ....
Everybody are acting scared as nasus. NO, if you know your matchup don't be at your tower all the time
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Junglers gg
nasus is fine vs olaf
good luck pushing vs singed or elise or renek lol
even if you succeed you will die to any gank
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well first you go for an opening with a ward (cloth 3 pot ward or Flask 2 pot ward) and then well its going to happen sometimes but ghost is a good escape tool when you have long distances to run. And yes when i say "pushing" it means hit the creep to try to push, vs renek normally u stay in the middle of the lane, vs singed you just don't care about him and do your own thing at the early lvl you can push him to tower then its a freefarm fest, vs elise u try to push early, go out of range with bushes, etc..
It depends also of the junglers, in the ryze game i was playing against amumu he tried to come i had my ward so he went mid, etc.. . Never went top again, well nobody went top anyway
And vs olaf its very hard cause he has true damage so you cant build resist vs him really, when you last hit he is going to stay at his minions and smack you down every time you go for a minions, it's painful and it hads up pretty quickly
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renek rapes you early levesl no way you can push against him
singed outpushes you easily at any level
elise can destroy you pretty early
olaf is fine, just play defnesively, you have enough lifesteal and pots and regen to heal some of the harass.
you just make sure he pushes, he can't E you under tower.
i see no reason to push if you can just play just as well by playing defensively with less risk and not needing to start something weird just to have a ward early
pushing against ryze might be a fringe example of it being successful but nobody plays ryze top anyway he is way too easy to gank
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renek doesnt really rape like riven, darius, lee sin, aatrox he is fine
And no lol singed doesnt outpush you at early level he can't afford to spend mana like that, he is going to fling you u gonna laugh and hit the creeps
well elise is scary i give you that it's a skill based matchup
He can E you under tower and a good olaf will do that everytime, he will stay just at his ranged minions and if you try to last hit them BOOM to your face, prepare to drink potions all days then be dived. And obviously his ult completely counteract wither.
those openings are not weird, if u go doran shield + pot u are comitted to stay at your tower, if you get a ward you have more room to breath. the difference beetween cloth + 5 pot and cloth + 3 pot + 1 ward is not this high in term of sustain.
It depends on the matchup
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singed pushes a hell of a lot faster with level 1 q even if he only uses a few ticks of mana
olaf uses hp to use E too, I think you can fight him at tower with your W, and if he backs off then you win the trade but he cant engage because you're too close to tower
you want to 1v1 renek v nasus until lvl 7?
or 1v1 push war singed v nasus?
or olaf vs nasus also iguess
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Olaf use hp but u cant really take advantage of that if you can't confront him. he is going to regenerate. With the rize of popularity he had on the korean scene this past like 2 days i hope he is not coming to NA.
well i test my limits
If u got a full wave u can trade damage if u Q him, if u have <2 minion you back off, you play it smart, i don't just stand at my tower.
It's mental also you know if you play agressive from the get go, he is going to be afraid of this nasus who is not the tower hugging type. And if you don't trade well you got the tower to fall back
and yeah against singed i go push war style, i'm really not afraid of him, he has no kill potential without the help of his jungler.
I sometimes blindpick nasus to test really hard against poor matchup. I don' t advertise doing that lol.
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On November 17 2013 02:55 trollbone wrote:
Olaf use hp but u cant really take advantage of that if you can't confront him. he is going to regenerate. With the rize of popularity he had on the korean scene this past like 2 days i hope he is not coming to NA.
well i test my limits
If u got a full wave u can trade damage if u Q him, if u have <2 minion you back off, you play it smart, i don't just stand at my tower.
It's mental also you know if you play agressive from the get go, he is going to be afraid of this nasus who is not the tower hugging type. And if you don't trade well you got the tower to fall back
and yeah against singed i go push war style, i'm really not afraid of him, he has no kill potential without the help of his jungler.
I sometimes blindpick nasus to test really hard against poor matchup. I don' t advertise doing that lol.
"it's mental". Either you win a fight, or lose a fight. You shouldn't base your play on bad players assuming you know what its doing
"vs olaf" I said you might need to trade at tower with W.
"push war vs singed" lol wat?
I thought you were on EU so i challenged for 1v1's. thought you were in france
I pick nasus into everything, haven't discovered any real hard matchups lately.
On November 17 2013 02:53 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2013 22:35 Slayer91 wrote:On November 16 2013 08:37 JimmiC wrote:
I think it's a crazy argument because both LS quints and MS quints are better on him. I suggest 2 of 1 1 of the other. OR armpen. Every diamond nasus I've seen, so ones that have written guides, and my own experience all tell me that it is better. Mainly because it impacts the entire game, And you can survive with dorans, and u don't need the ad to last hit once u just used to hit, just know when to double tap under tower. Or use Q which is the thing anyhow. LS quints aren't bad but I don't think you really want to rely on lifesteal later on and early game I think they're not the best because in a lane you get to lifesteal a lot you are already fine because of your passive and when you are being harassed a lot then they are useless because you're taking more damage than you gain hp from lifesteal trying to abuse it. Meanwhile resists make your passive lifesteal more effective, make your base hp more effective, and make all sources of regen more effective (hp/d shield/base/leveling hp) MS quints are only 1.5% ms. It's a very small amount if you already have ghost and a huge movement slow so I can't see it making a big difference compared to having a stronger laning phase. For example if you have 2 lifesteal quints, thats 4% lifesteal. So ~4 hp a hit if you count Q lifestealing more and autos less. with a passive 20% 10 more aromur from quints (think they only give 8 and lifesteal is 14-17% early but w/e) is giving you 10% more raw damage needed to kill you so its effectively additional 2% bonus lifesteal. If you count the fact that the armour is better everywhere else it makes sense that lifesteal probably isn't worth getting. If you're an ADC and you're constantly autoing creeps its different, but for someone who gets to last hit only and if he's freehitting he already has won the lane whats the point of getting more lifesteal? You say my argument is crazy but you give no back up at all for why LS MS quints are good other than random claims you make. Like "MS is good all game" so is AD. So is resists. How good? My argument is that diminishing returns on MS when you're ghosting means MS is meh then and since your slow is so debilitating you can close gaps when thats up too, so the range of periods where you can't catch someone is when W and ghost are both on CD, (almost never cause W is nearly constantly up at max CDR), or when you're CC'd in which case 1.5% ms is useless anyway. Feels like you are justifying LS/MS 2:1 combo very randomly because it aesthetically feels right to you rather than any solid reasoning. I don't think you'd even notice if you accidentally changed to another runepage because the extra LS/MS is so small. I think you really underestimate MS quints, they turn your tabis into boots of swiftness. Thats pretty impactful. especially compared to a couple armor. And your ghost arguement only applies for the 5% of the game u are using ghost. How about all the times its on CD or you are not using it. I mean you can use whatever you want. But if you look at diamond players they use LS and MS and some times armor pen. And when I play and try the different options 2 MS and 1 LS work best for me. I think it's crazy to simply say they are not good. And my point about all game is MS is 4.5% all game. AD is like 10% early and 2% late and Resist the same. I have never argued for AD. as for the pushing discussion. I never push I just farm Q and wait for ganks, if he is pushed he is wide open and wither (exhaust if u Krazy like me) is a amazing gank assister. Not to mention most people play hyper aggressive against nasus cause they know they have to punish him early or die to him late.
You aren't taking both MS and LS quints. Obviously 6 quints is better than 3.
MS Doesn't "turn swiftness into Tabi". Swiftness is a flat boost affected by any other % multipliers and ms is a % boost. You also buy swiftness to reduce slow duration. It's true 4.5 % ms is about +15 ms though
You need MS in fights, in teamfights you have ghost for a good period of the time, when you aren't fighting you dont need the ms at all, thats why I mention ghost uptime.
1 LS quint is such an unnoticeable difference. Why would you bother with just 1? Might as well get 3 MS quints.
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`He can't really harass that well under tower if you are careful
his pool doesn't help vs your W so its not that bad
the trick is to not let him stack 4x E on you
when he loses his E stacks then you can cs again
i havent relaly encountered any real nasus counters atm but im sure there will be
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I am in france but i play on NA, i started just right when season 1 started and have all my friends there, my ping isnt so bad and it's clearly a better server. "trollbone" on NA
Come on slayer vlad is a very good counter to nasus if left unchecked. U think a tower is going to protect you ? he doesnt care about one tower shot with lifesteal.
Well first you have to play semi agressive at early levels, his cooldown are high so push the lane and lifesteal before his first back. After his first back you just have to try to survive, expect your tower to be dead.
sometimes when u back and u teleport asap u can go ham on him. when u start going for him just dont stop
Yes it's mental, how many nasus try to push agressively right of the start ? 0. Nobody expect it and sometimes they dont react accordingly, they assume a jungler is near or that its a bait.
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On November 17 2013 06:24 trollbone wrote:
I am in france but i play on NA, i started just right when season 1 started and have all my friends there, my ping isnt so bad and it's clearly a better server. "trollbone" on NA
Come on slayer vlad is a very good counter to nasus if left unchecked. U think a tower is going to protect you ? he doesnt care about one tower shot with lifesteal.
Well first you have to play semi agressive at early levels, his cooldown are high so push the lane and lifesteal before his first back. After his first back you just have to try to survive, expect your tower to be dead.
sometimes when u back and u teleport asap u can go ham on him. when u start going for him just dont stop
Yes it's mental, how many nasus try to push agressively right of the start ? 0. Nobody expect it and sometimes they dont react accordingly, they assume a jungler is near or that its a bait.
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1: I base my opinions about vlad based on my personal experiences which is that the better i got the less of a problem he was. His lifesteal isn't that high and your W is really strong if he gets overagressive.
2: Mental is a stupid word, if nasus pushes aggressively and I am stronger I just kill him, I don't see your point. Not reacting accordingly and assuming a jungler is baiting is just bad play (jungler won't come until 3 mins, nasus you have to push at level 1 because if they hit lvl 2 first you have to play safe again)
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Voyboy nasus guide just did a search to see what some pros have to say
Inside : debate trinity vs gauntlet
lifesteal quint vs others
counters to nasus --> vlad
etc...
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EPT
