EPT[Champion] Nasus - Page 22
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4773 Posts
I've tried a new build on him though which I'd like to possibly discuss. Frozen mallet, warmog's, atma's impaler, last whisper, randuin's/spirit visage/ depending on the enemy comp. Your HP is insane, your crit is insane, you hit for a million and you're decently tanky. | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Cloth+5 potions start Warden's Mail Phage(extra tankiness and MS modifiers) Boots level 1 Convert WM into Frozen Heart if I'm behind, or go into Trinity Force if I'm ahead and comfortable in lane and then get the other After here varies vs. their comp but it is often Merc Treads or Swiftness boots, Spirit Visage, and then some other EHP items and LW So the questions I have are these: When I go back for first buy and I have just over 1000 gold, should I prefer to get the chain vest(to work toward Glacial Shroud), a ward and some pots or the WM and some pots? Should I be going for TF at all, even? I'm considering just ditching it to get IceBorn Gauntlet and Randuin's instead, which combined with something like SV would give me great EHP, a spammable slow and 30% CDR. Which boots are best? So far Swiftness if possible and Merc Tread's if forced to by CC seems to have worked well, but maybe this is wrong. Lastly, at what point should I be grabbing my LW? My guess is once I hit around 350 stacks on Q and I have enough CDR/EHP(so for my 4th non-boots item). My main reason for grabbing the Phage is to help me escape/chase and because it gives me better protection vs. allins. However, it may be a bad choice. | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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GhoSt[shield]
Canada2131 Posts
Rush your resist itemization against enemey laner, making sure to get 20%+ cdr asap for Q stacking. You gain a lot of eHP from passive and Ult, so Resists + CDR to stack your Q and to continously apply wither should u need to peel/chase. You can delay boots 2 upgrade for a while as Nasus due to free farming your q + innate sustain + tp. vs AD: Dshield + pot ->glacial --> kindlegem--boots> if behind finish FH or Wardens, if ahead Trinity> wardens>SV>Dmg item or LW if 3+ opponents stacking armor. 20%+ CDR makes it much easier to have Q available every minion in lane + small minions from the jungle. 40% is really nice vs AP : dshield+ pots--> Kindle OR Cowl depending on opponent's kill potential-> boots->trinity/finish SV/boots-> 2 Glacial-> MR or Dmg items situationally. Mercs for heavy hard cc, Tabi for heavy AD, Swiftness if purely slows. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 12 2013 02:38 Complete wrote: Idk, sometimes you just can't trade with nasus early, so your best bet is to get more LS and stay in lane longer to get more farm/Q farm. That being said I prefer AD quints to help last hit under tower. Also I'd imagine LS quints are much better the later the game goes on. You never want to trade with nasus early, but that doesn't mean you want lifesteal quints. Passive lifesteal and regen and potions mean that resists are just usually better and are good all game long. On November 12 2013 07:31 krndandaman wrote: I pretty much always use runes for early game rather than mid-late game (unless it's MS quints). I'm not a pro, but I've heard most pros recommend runing for early game because runes become almost a nonfactor once items come into play- this is especially so for those champs that have early game trouble and scale well into lategame. AD runes are just so good in s3. its efficient, helps last hitting, and actually gives you somewhat damage during ganks rather than having absolutely 0 kill potential. Optimally, yes, you don't want to be in situations when you are both low, but you can't control that all the time. So I do think fizz having repositioning skills is better than not having them. Also helps in ganks. Spirit fire can do AoE damage of 150+ at level 1 which isn't bad. It'll significantly help with clearing if there is a huge buildup of creep after getting zoned. I would probably max spirit fire against really hard lane counters such as teemo and riven. These guys have really good potential for diving with junglers (and even alone). There is no point maxing Q if you're not going to be able to last hit anyways. But for most matchups I get spirit fire level 4 or so and leave it at level 1. I do agree that generally you go Q>W>E though. I don't know what you're arguing here. Yes you rune mostly for early game, MR quints are the best for early game and later on. Getting AD quints to last hit better doesn't make your early game stronger, it means you last hit better which means your mid game very marginally stronger. On November 12 2013 10:51 Uldridge wrote: I feel like Nasus is super strong now, but I don't know exactly why. He's like the perfect pushing monster in today's poke comp with EXCELLENT peel. I've tried a new build on him though which I'd like to possibly discuss. Frozen mallet, warmog's, atma's impaler, last whisper, randuin's/spirit visage/ depending on the enemy comp. Your HP is insane, your crit is insane, you hit for a million and you're decently tanky. Why would you ever get frozen mallet on nasus when basically iceborn gauntlet is always better. You build has basically no cdr so its actually worse for peeling/catching people, you damage is probably a lot less because no cdr (until last item spirit visage maybe), and hp isn't an optimal stat because your R gives you hp and in lane you want resists anyway so you want to stack resists terrible build On November 12 2013 14:03 WarSame wrote: I'd like to get feedback on this build vs an AD top(i.e. Riven which is happening a lot in the normals I've played with Nasus): + Show Spoiler + Cloth+5 potions start Warden's Mail Phage(extra tankiness and MS modifiers) Boots level 1 Convert WM into Frozen Heart if I'm behind, or go into Trinity Force if I'm ahead and comfortable in lane and then get the other After here varies vs. their comp but it is often Merc Treads or Swiftness boots, Spirit Visage, and then some other EHP items and LW So the questions I have are these: When I go back for first buy and I have just over 1000 gold, should I prefer to get the chain vest(to work toward Glacial Shroud), a ward and some pots or the WM and some pots? Should I be going for TF at all, even? I'm considering just ditching it to get IceBorn Gauntlet and Randuin's instead, which combined with something like SV would give me great EHP, a spammable slow and 30% CDR. Which boots are best? So far Swiftness if possible and Merc Tread's if forced to by CC seems to have worked well, but maybe this is wrong. Lastly, at what point should I be grabbing my LW? My guess is once I hit around 350 stacks on Q and I have enough CDR/EHP(so for my 4th non-boots item). My main reason for grabbing the Phage is to help me escape/chase and because it gives me better protection vs. allins. However, it may be a bad choice. Read the guide. Phage is a kinda dumb idea. Trinity isn't that amazing and you already win all in's against basically every champ in the game with nasus because his 1v1 is retarded. It doesn't really help you trade or regen from harass at all which are your main worries. You don't want to rush wardens mail vs something like riven when you already have AS slows and most AD tops rely more on spells than auto attacks. You want to rush glacial shroud first item. It gives you armour, mana so you can trade more than once without running oom, and more cdr for qing more often. Build it into frozen heart or gauntlet depending. Against riven probably gauntlet Is better however you might want to consider getting wardens+glacial and then finish gauntlet or getting ninja tabi if you feel like you need more armour. Tabi/swiftness/mercs depending on situation. Normally mercs>swiftness but it depends on enemy cc. Ninja tabi vs heavy auto attackres or if you want to make laning phase easier. | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On November 13 2013 06:44 krndandaman wrote: @slayer91 I'm arguing AD is better in most cases than armor/mr quints. points: 1) yes, AD leads to more last hits and overall better mid game. however, isn't that the whole point of runes on weak early champs? to have enough money and survive lane. I think going MR/armor quints is overkill on early resists and not that cost effective compared to ad. i'd imagine you'd have a lot less cs as well. 2)i've never seen a high elo/pro player go armor or mr quints as nasus. 3) absolutely 0 threat with your rune set up. as someone like riven I won't even be afraid of ganks pre 6. Could 1v2 easily. 1) Not getting behind on xp also helps weak early champs, and it's easier to do if you don't have to back as often. Resists will help more than ad for that. It's a tradeoff but I would take the xp over the more garanteed cs in the early levels. 2) The thing is, it's hard for them to select said rune page when they don't have it in their rune pages, which is probably quite commun (I checked for dyrus, wickd, xasus, kerp and samux, only of of them had them if I didn't miss anything). 3) ad quints make zero difference for gank threats. The extra ~30 damage you can hope to get during the gank won't be the difference between riven 1v2ing ezpz and riven dying. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
hypothetically say I am facing a ranged AD like Vayne top and getting no help from my jungler. If I know it's a ranged AD I start w/ Doran's shield. After I will likely be trying to get some more armour and a lot of HP pots so I will likely go Glacial Shroud. However, is there anything that I can pick up to help me survive lane better than just going for FH? How about if I'm facing Teemo? | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On November 13 2013 10:49 krndandaman wrote: 1) how will getting AD zone you any harder? the +12 MR from 3 quints will reduce minimal damage anyways. I shouldn't have said armor/mr because I don't mind armor quints as much as I do MR quints. I still prefer ad in nearly all matchups but I wouldn't think it's bad to go armor quints in some. as for MR quints I just think they are suboptimal lol. 2) There is a reason why it's not in their rune pages even when they are pros that only play top lane and have 20 rune pages. it's not that good. on a more practical level, I'd recommend ad runes just for the sole purpose of saving IP lol. 3) the extra ~30 dmg or whatever is pretty big actually. in just 3 autos that's a difference of like ~90 damage in early levels. whenever I see an opponent go armor quints (never seen MR quints in my life) I know I'll be safe in nearly all ganks. just cc the jungler and run. 1) I didn't say anything about getting zoned. I talked about being harrassed and having to recall because you're low. If +12 MR is reducing marginal damage anyways, why do you use flat MR glyphs? They give you the same amount of MR. 2) I guess there is a reason they don't have those rune pages. I won't jump to the conclusions that's it because it's not that good. 3) Please... | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 13 2013 06:44 krndandaman wrote: @warsame 100HP is huge at early levels, especially level 1. it's essentially a 20% HP boost. it dramatically decreases riven's kill potential on you when he is the greatest threat. armor is better at surviving through sustained harass/damage which riven doesn't have (she's burst). @slayer91 I'm arguing AD is better in most cases than armor/mr quints. points: 1) yes, AD leads to more last hits and overall better mid game. however, isn't that the whole point of runes on weak early champs? to have enough money and survive lane. I think going MR/armor quints is overkill on early resists and not that cost effective compared to ad. i'd imagine you'd have a lot less cs as well. 2)i've never seen a high elo/pro player go armor or mr quints as nasus. 3) absolutely 0 threat with your rune set up. as someone like riven I won't even be afraid of ganks pre 6. Could 1v2 easily. You just said pro players go early runes for a stronger early game. Then you suggest going AD quints for a stronger midgame. Why not just get GP10 quints? You don't need "enough money survive lane", by the time you go back once the hardest part of your laning phase is over, and if you managed to wait till glacial//cowl basically that's when you're freefarming. What you want is to be able to be as safe as possible during the early levels especially, and as I said what use is having 200 gold more (that's like 10 extra cs which is pretty big for just 8 more ad lol) if you just spend it on something you could have had from level 1? 2: I haven't seen any pro play nasus yet, so w/e. 3: LOL, having 8 AD makes that much of a difference? Riven can't even 1v1 past level 6 without a big advantage let alone 1v2. What are you talking about. Armour will outperform AD in a 1v1 against a physical damage dealer 100% anyway. Especially if you take into account a lot of your damage doesn't scale off AD. (just autos and your q auto reset, R is dps, e is dps, R also gives you bonus AD the longer you are alive and in range to damage the other guy) On November 13 2013 05:53 TheEmulator wrote: Challenger is top 50 right? I'm surprised we actually have TLers that have a chance of making it, seems pretty elite to obtain. FH is almost certainly the best agaist vayne, but you might want to rush wardens if you're so sure you won't get any help. Against teemo I'd lean toward spirit visage because you won't be trading at all and spirit visage is better if you don't need the mana. The trick against vayne is to never let her get that 3rd silver bolts proc unless you decide to all in for some reason. Every time she wants to last bolts reset. Teemo is just like vayne except much easier to gank and all in but does a lot of damage per auto because of the poison, but having less cs and buying more pots is okay because teemo is trash compared to vayne later and much easier to gank | ||
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