On April 17 2012 11:44 MugenXBanksy wrote: just rush boots-> phantomdance-> infinity edge -> madreds blood -> bloodthirster then your choice of sitiautional items or luxury items max w>q>r>e prio
zzzzz
Standard Kog build is basically standard AD carry build: Dblade or Boots 3 start. Then get 1-2 more Dblades. Then BF sword+Vamp scepter. Then IE->Zeal/PD->BT for more damage OR LW if they've started to stack a lot of armor. To finish get BT/LW, whichever you didn't get and/or a defensive item, usually QSS or GA. Banshee's can be good in some scenarios and some players have started to build Frozen Mallet on AD carries for more tank and utility. You generally only want 1 defensive item; maybe 2 in extreme situations.
You can also do a more early-mid game dominating build. Dblade or Boots 3 start. Then get 1-2 more Dblades, Then Wriggles ->Zeal. From there transition to IE or finish your PD. After that get whatever you didn't get earlier. Then transition to standard AD carry stuff.
Madreds Bloodrazor is a bad item on AD carries in 90% of games. The vast majority of the times IE/BT/LW/PD will increase your dps far far more than Bloodrazor.
Skillbuild on Kog is R>W>Q>E, but you want 1 in everything by lvl 4. It's usually something like WEWQ or WEQW to start.
I've seen quite a few Kogs go PD before BF and defiantly before IE. I have certainly never seen Madreds (responding to your nested).
So is IE > PD for Kog as well?
I know a lot of pros have build Kog with Dblade spam and wriggles into Zeal/PD rush because of the laning power and dragon control it offers. If you do that you absolutely have to make it count though because getting Wriggles/lots of extra Dblades means that you will be set 1.6k~2k gold behind the enemy AD.
Which is why I don't like the combination of dblade spam and wriggles. I see people do this and they end up doing no damage in teamfights while the other AD finished their IE and is killing crap. Even worse is when they do it and then build PD first afterwards...
On April 17 2012 15:23 wussleeQ wrote: 2 dblades into pd is pretty fucking strong. it actually gives me a lot of kiting power and the crits with W = a lot of damage. i think it's stronger than going IE first mostly because PD is such a good item on kog
The crits do not benefit from the presence of W and with no major AD item are not really significant.
PD before your major AD item is a similar sacrifice in terms of DPS except it gives you positioning power rather than raw survivability. That's basically it. It's damage is pretty pathetic next to a lone BC/BT/IE even on Kog Maw but unlike wriggles/dblades combo you'll be exactly where you left off as soon as you finish your AD item since going PD/X is the same gold as X/PD. Once you get PD + BF sword you're losing a lot less potential DPS, before that you can be doing 25% less.
Also build to match your team. PD first is a lot stronger with Lulu and sorta Janna (lulu doesn't suffer from shield breaks, Janna does). If you have Nunu on your team you really should be getting AD first since you've got movespeed + attack speed anyway.
Thing with kog is, the mobility you get from pdancer is really good on him and W deals tons of damage by itself. So even if you dont go IE first, you'll still do tons of damage because of that W compared to other ADs.
If you don't have abilities that scale off of AD and build some Doran Blades for laning anyway PD is minimally worse for dps than a BF sword based start. And thats without having an ability that purely scales of AS like Kog. Plus between the range during active W and the movement speed you get from a PD you can put serious hurt on your opponent if laning phase persists, while working for that fast IE won't get you anything until you complete it and then you still need to hit an early crit. That said don't go for a Wriggles in solo qeue, its only a useful idea if you have a comp build arround early Baron control in 5v5 arranged imho.
Wait what. You can be a complete dick in lane post-6 (and even more so post-11). I mean kills shouldn't be your priority, but by all means you can definitely harass and even zone/force b's.
(From last page) I might just suck, but grabbing Rylai's makes my long-range Rs a lot easier to hit. I'm almost to the point of rushing it after Tear. Does anyone else build Rylai's, and when do they fit it into the build?
On April 17 2012 22:34 ManyCookies wrote: Wait what. You can be a complete dick in lane post-6 (and even more so post-11). I mean kills shouldn't be your priority, but by all means you can definitely harass and even zone/force b's.
(From last page) I might just suck, but grabbing Rylai's makes my long-range Rs a lot easier to hit. I'm almost to the point of rushing it after Tear. Does anyone else build Rylai's, and when do they fit it into the build?
I have to see how far I can push it when I first try champs, sure you can harass. I was vs Ahri first game, and clearly I was doing it wrong.
On April 17 2012 21:17 JackDino wrote: Thing with kog is, the mobility you get from pdancer is really good on him and W deals tons of damage by itself. So even if you dont go IE first, you'll still do tons of damage because of that W compared to other ADs.
Just get a tri-force instead. Almost the same mobility+you deal damage. Really got upload some replays, it's so stupidly good.
Triforce has much worse synergy for your late game damage. And typically thats what you should mostly be concerned about as the AD carry: scaling into the late game. So unless you have a definite plan to get a large advantage at 5k gold into the game and winning it based on that you should stick to the late game beast combo of PD+IE+LW.
On April 17 2012 21:17 JackDino wrote: Thing with kog is, the mobility you get from pdancer is really good on him and W deals tons of damage by itself. So even if you dont go IE first, you'll still do tons of damage because of that W compared to other ADs.
Just get a tri-force instead. Almost the same mobility+you deal damage. Really got upload some replays, it's so stupidly good.
Tri-force is so expensive for such little gains. I'd Rather have the PD + $1225 which is almost a BF, could get you a pickaxe, etc.
On April 17 2012 23:11 Nafaltar wrote: Triforce has much worse synergy for your late game damage. And typically thats what you should mostly be concerned about as the AD carry: scaling into the late game. So unless you have a definite plan to get a large advantage at 5k gold into the game and winning it based on that you should stick to the late game beast combo of PD+IE+LW.
So tri-force is worse than a straight PD rush? I just dont like PD i guess, much better off with Tri+IE+LW or Tri+BT+LW or whatever. Phage and sheen proc OP
On April 17 2012 11:44 MugenXBanksy wrote: just rush boots-> phantomdance-> infinity edge -> madreds blood -> bloodthirster then your choice of sitiautional items or luxury items max w>q>r>e prio
zzzzz
Standard Kog build is basically standard AD carry build: Dblade or Boots 3 start. Then get 1-2 more Dblades. Then BF sword+Vamp scepter. Then IE->Zeal/PD->BT for more damage OR LW if they've started to stack a lot of armor. To finish get BT/LW, whichever you didn't get and/or a defensive item, usually QSS or GA. Banshee's can be good in some scenarios and some players have started to build Frozen Mallet on AD carries for more tank and utility. You generally only want 1 defensive item; maybe 2 in extreme situations.
You can also do a more early-mid game dominating build. Dblade or Boots 3 start. Then get 1-2 more Dblades, Then Wriggles ->Zeal. From there transition to IE or finish your PD. After that get whatever you didn't get earlier. Then transition to standard AD carry stuff.
Madreds Bloodrazor is a bad item on AD carries in 90% of games. The vast majority of the times IE/BT/LW/PD will increase your dps far far more than Bloodrazor.
Skillbuild on Kog is R>W>Q>E, but you want 1 in everything by lvl 4. It's usually something like WEWQ or WEQW to start.
I've seen quite a few Kogs go PD before BF and defiantly before IE. I have certainly never seen Madreds (responding to your nested).
So is IE > PD for Kog as well?
I know a lot of pros have build Kog with Dblade spam and wriggles into Zeal/PD rush because of the laning power and dragon control it offers. If you do that you absolutely have to make it count though because getting Wriggles/lots of extra Dblades means that you will be set 1.6k~2k gold behind the enemy AD.
Which is why I don't like the combination of dblade spam and wriggles. I see people do this and they end up doing no damage in teamfights while the other AD finished their IE and is killing crap. Even worse is when they do it and then build PD first afterwards...
On April 17 2012 15:23 wussleeQ wrote: 2 dblades into pd is pretty fucking strong. it actually gives me a lot of kiting power and the crits with W = a lot of damage. i think it's stronger than going IE first mostly because PD is such a good item on kog
The crits do not benefit from the presence of W and with no major AD item are not really significant.
PD before your major AD item is a similar sacrifice in terms of DPS except it gives you positioning power rather than raw survivability. That's basically it. It's damage is pretty pathetic next to a lone BC/BT/IE even on Kog Maw but unlike wriggles/dblades combo you'll be exactly where you left off as soon as you finish your AD item since going PD/X is the same gold as X/PD. Once you get PD + BF sword you're losing a lot less potential DPS, before that you can be doing 25% less.
Also build to match your team. PD first is a lot stronger with Lulu and sorta Janna (lulu doesn't suffer from shield breaks, Janna does). If you have Nunu on your team you really should be getting AD first since you've got movespeed + attack speed anyway.
Generally you want to go EITHER Doran's or Wriggles. It's actually rather easy to decide which to go too.
If you're in a lane that has high kill potential(You're vs a Graves/Sona or Graves/Taric or Tristana/Taric), it's better to go with Dorans because it gives you more HP thus you have more survivability versus the burst.
If it's a lane that's going to be long & dragged out with very little action between the players, then Wriggles is the better option because it gives you free wards so there won't be much, if any, jungle intervention, easier last hits, and also the ability to control your lane better.
On April 17 2012 15:23 wussleeQ wrote: 2 dblades into pd is pretty fucking strong. it actually gives me a lot of kiting power and the crits with W = a lot of damage. i think it's stronger than going IE first mostly because PD is such a good item on kog
Generally I suggest to all players Sub-1400 Elo to go Boots->3x Dorans->PD->I.E.
I know this build may sound bad because it's such a huge investment in Dorans, but you have to understand that Sub-1400 players generally have horrific situational awareness in when they should run or engage and the PD's give you that survivability. I only suggest wriggles on Caitlyn because of her extreme range and maneuverability.
Another thing to keep in mind is that in Sub -1800ish Elo pretty much the entire game is decided by the 20-30 minute mark. By then you'll have your Dorans/PD so you'll be a powerhouse during teamfights. Building for 35+ minutes isn't going to win you as many games as trying to cheese early game builds would.
Start Boots + 3 or Dorans depending on your support. Get 2 (3 at most) dorans > Zeal > Berserkers > PD > IE
Trust me, once you get your PD you can boss around your lane so much. With your W active you have so much range. You've got tons of attack speed with your Q passive plus the PD that you get so many extra shots from your W. You can chase the champions easy and you can usually always grab a kill if they get too close and you are able to E them to slow them down.
Remember, E at them, Press W, Auto > Auto > R > Auto > Auto > R >Auto > Auto > R.
Kog + Tier 2 boots + PD, you can't really outrun him either if he starts doing that combo on you, especially if he leads his R behind you so if you keep running straight back you'll get hit by his ult. If you turn to the side he'll be able to hit you with more autos.
Once he gets a BF sword, followed by the IE, Good luck....
So, there's a lot more AP Kog'maw being played (or maybe it's due to Froggen/Jiji playing a lot of him lately) - what's the current consensus on runes/masteries/builds/etc? Is he still a mid pick where you need a specific comp, or will he slot into a wider range of teams these days?
I think buildwise it's something like R>W>E>Q. I could be wrong tho. For items Tear, Rylais, Dcap are non-negotiable. RoA can be a good pickup sometimes. Void staff for late game. Either cdr or sorc boots.
He's mid pick with a relatively weak laning phase, but Kog wrecks after laning breaks down due to his retarded poke.
DCap completely negotiable lol. Tear/Cata/Roa farmfest, rylai archangel void. Usually gives you more of what you need than dcap since you do consistent sustained damage anyways the burst isn't that important, rather have more mana and hp to live.
Ofc Dcap good in some situations but it's definitely not set in stone like you suggest...
On May 27 2012 18:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: R > E > W > Q
DCap completely negotiable lol. Tear/Cata/Roa farmfest, rylai archangel void. Usually gives you more of what you need than dcap since you do consistent sustained damage anyways the burst isn't that important, rather have more mana and hp to live.
Ofc Dcap good in some situations but it's definitely not set in stone like you suggest...
Well dcap is definitely something you should be aiming for in a final build. maybe not as a second or third item, but fourth item and on there's no reason to not get it. as for RoA, i've seen many AP kogs, froggen included, just skip it. With Rylais/Tear you have sufficient hp/mana. RoA is a good item for AP kog tho.
On April 17 2012 21:17 JackDino wrote: Thing with kog is, the mobility you get from pdancer is really good on him and W deals tons of damage by itself. So even if you dont go IE first, you'll still do tons of damage because of that W compared to other ADs.
Just get a tri-force instead. Almost the same mobility+you deal damage. Really got upload some replays, it's so stupidly good.
Tri-force is so expensive for such little gains. I'd Rather have the PD + $1225 which is almost a BF, could get you a pickaxe, etc.
Triforce is efficient. With its stats AND its goodies. In fact its more efficient than PD if you use all its stats(like kog does)
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FIZtg.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qVsoh.png)
