[Champion] Jarman the Fourth (aka Jarvan ok) - Page 13

On May 25 2011 00:24 Senx wrote:
Uhm.. you write in your original guide that you get mana regen yellows, is that really worth it over flat armor when you open 2 philos?

On May 25 2011 00:36 Senx wrote:
Also I just gotta comment on ultin in team fights, holy shit this feel so akward.

Standard situations for me:

* I ult a carry and block out my teammate from helping to kill it
* I ult a xin/ww, i trap my teammate to his death
* I ult in the jungle, i block my entire team out of the fight like a massive anivia wall.

I guess i'm just awful, but I often find his ult to do more dmg than good in team fights.

Like as soon as I use it in a teamfight i'm like "ehh that didnt really help, i'll toogle it off so my olaf can reach this ashe".

It it just me? lol

Maybe using it more as a nuke rather than an actual CC spell is the better and safer application, for team fights atleast.

On May 25 2011 00:14 Mogwai wrote:

I just don't think you can play the same sort of lane dominance game with 21 utility that you can play with 21 defense.


1. Flat pen is more effective the lower your opponent's armor is. It can be "late" to miss the point when it is most effective.

Sidenote: can you cut the crap with talking about game mechanics like you know something I don't? I know all the reasons brutalizer is good on him, I know why flat pen has positive synergy with Jarman and % pen has negative synergy with Jarman. I've been building brutalizer on Jarman since before you even knew he was worth playing.

2. You're just so adorable, everyone must fucking love you.

I buy 2 because the extra sustainability allows me to be more aggressive in lane by constantly spamming my nukes at people and I'm typically looking to spend bare minimum 8K gold before looking to sell philos which mean they have plenty of time to pay for themselves. This also means that when surprise teamfights show up, I'm never out of mana considering that I don't spec jack-shit in the way of other mana/mana regen and Jarman can chug through mana like a boss when he wants to. I've played this character so fucking much, I've been through no-warmog's phases, cloth -> boots -> straight warmog's phases, 1 philo stone -> boots -> warmog's phases, 2 philo stone -> boots -> brutalizer -> warmog's phases, and pretty much everything in between. Here's the thing, delaying your warmog's isn't the end of the world because the fact of the matter is that in a typical game 75+% of your warmog's charging is going to come from kills/assists in teamfights and not from sitting there farming 100 more CS in lane. Even in a passive game, you can pretty easily hit double philo @ 8:00 and warmogs before 20:00. Builds should be malleable and change from game to game and if you don't need to use your skills that much, go right ahead and build only one, I'm just saying that my typical build consists of double Philostone.

3. The only "wasted" stat on Triforce is the AP. Literally every other stat on it is very very good on Jarman. He has relatively low CDs to proc sheen, he likes movespeed and slow procs, he needs mana when he starts selling off his philosopher's stones, HP is always good, AS, AD, Crit, all always good. Does it do less sustained DPS when Ghostblade has it's active up? Yes. Does it perform significantly better all the rest of the time? Yes. There are pros and cons to both items, but the simple fact of the matter is that if I skipped over Brutalizer and went straight Warmog's -> Atma's -> FoN and can afford Triforce, I'm going to get triforce over ghostblade every time.


Loco, I don't wanna dislike you bro, but don't be a condescending asshole about a character that you've probably played in 5 games to someone who's play several hundred at roughly the same level of play. People don't ban Jarman when they see you on the other team, they do with me. Whether or not you're willing to accept it, I know a fuckton about this character and I would really appreciate it if you'd just give me a little respect. I'm willing to take your word on shit about ranged carries, the least you can do is the same for me when it comes to Jarman.

On May 25 2011 07:35 locodoco wrote:

zzz im not even trying to be an asshole ur just being overly defensive,how am i not giving u respect?by stating a build that's diffrent than urs?i don't ask for any1 to take my word on stuff about ranged carrys or anything,i almost always say something like "builds are guidelines" this is whats "most cost effective but feel free to try other shit"

anyways
1.its never late to get brut,since as u stated flatpen is most effective on lower armored targets,but even later in the game when squishes start getting 80~100 armor no other item is gonna give more damage per gold than brutalizer->ghostblade

2.i hate getting double philo's on jarvan,i always try to cut regen out of any champs i play,be it philos,util masterys,runes w/e.if u accurately guess the champ ur going against in lane and u can pick whether to take armor yellows or mr blues,u can use the other one for regen and be fine in lane.philos are cost efficient no doubt but there's no reason to buy more than u need just cuz their cost efficient

another example of regen talk
long before season 1,nyx used to get fucking clarity+chalice on janna.his explanation for it was that if he got both he could spam all his spells all day long and be pro.i told him it was a fucking waste of summoners and gold and that he should switch to 2~3 dorans with mana regen yellows instead,he didnt change his mind till he saw zirun play janna with the exact setup i mentioned.zirun played janna very very very streamlined,he only ever used spells when he needed to.
another big no regen ever player is mr.aggressive feedstyle himself
reginald
by some fucking miracle reginald plays ezreal and ashe(champs that most people would argue to get double sets of regen on,before the mana regen innate buff patch) w/o any mana regen runes. he does 2/7/21 and gets attackspeed blues and yellows for both.he doesn't even run mana regen on corki. before joining solo mid or playing with him in general, i always thought he was an idiot for having that setup and that he was in the wrong. but after joining solo mid and practicing solo laneing with reginald,he changed my mind. if u play aggressive at the right moments in lane and only use mana than and use that advantage u have to just farm,no mana regen was actually just enuff. i myself still run mana regen on most ranged carrys since im not as aggressive nor decisive as regi in lane,but i still think double philo on jarvan is overkill when u can do single philo + manaregen runes

3.none of the stats on triforce is "bad" on jarvan,but triforce it self is a very very very iffy item. the stats it gives for the gold it costs makes it inefficient.
ill write more later

On May 25 2011 10:06 Mogwai wrote:
if going into a little "girl talk" about jeans as an analogy for philostones on Jarman isn't trying to be a condescending asshole, I don't know what is.

3.none of the stats on triforce is "bad" on jarvan,but triforce it self is a very very very iffy item. the stats it gives for the gold it costs makes it inefficient.

On May 25 2011 16:32 R04R wrote:
Locodoco on stream right now playing Jarvan. Opened 2 philo boots. Respect.

On May 25 2011 23:10 Mogwai wrote:
Poppy is a stupid hero. I hate initiating with Jarman only to have to 1v4 while the rest of my team inexplicably is chasing around a poppy who's ult is on our support.

On May 25 2011 07:35 locodoco wrote:

zzz im not even trying to be an asshole ur just being overly defensive,how am i not giving u respect?by stating a build that's diffrent than urs?i don't ask for any1 to take my word on stuff about ranged carrys or anything,i almost always say something like "builds are guidelines" this is whats "most cost effective but feel free to try other shit"

anyways
1.its never late to get brut,since as u stated flatpen is most effective on lower armored targets,but even later in the game when squishes start getting 80~100 armor no other item is gonna give more damage per gold than brutalizer->ghostblade

2.i hate getting double philo's on jarvan,i always try to cut regen out of any champs i play,be it philos,util masterys,runes w/e.if u accurately guess the champ ur going against in lane and u can pick whether to take armor yellows or mr blues,u can use the other one for regen and be fine in lane.philos are cost efficient no doubt but there's no reason to buy more than u need just cuz their cost efficient

another example of regen talk
long before season 1,nyx used to get fucking clarity+chalice on janna.his explanation for it was that if he got both he could spam all his spells all day long and be pro.i told him it was a fucking waste of summoners and gold and that he should switch to 2~3 dorans with mana regen yellows instead,he didnt change his mind till he saw zirun play janna with the exact setup i mentioned.zirun played janna very very very streamlined,he only ever used spells when he needed to.
another big no regen ever player is mr.aggressive feedstyle himself
reginald
by some fucking miracle reginald plays ezreal and ashe(champs that most people would argue to get double sets of regen on,before the mana regen innate buff patch) w/o any mana regen runes. he does 2/7/21 and gets attackspeed blues and yellows for both.he doesn't even run mana regen on corki. before joining solo mid or playing with him in general, i always thought he was an idiot for having that setup and that he was in the wrong. but after joining solo mid and practicing solo laneing with reginald,he changed my mind. if u play aggressive at the right moments in lane and only use mana than and use that advantage u have to just farm,no mana regen was actually just enuff. i myself still run mana regen on most ranged carrys since im not as aggressive nor decisive as regi in lane,but i still think double philo on jarvan is overkill when u can do single philo + manaregen runes

3.none of the stats on triforce is "bad" on jarvan,but triforce it self is a very very very iffy item. the stats it gives for the gold it costs makes it inefficient.
ill write more later