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I just played a game as Gragas 1v1.5 bot (Jarvan and semi-roam Soraka).
He rushed Philo and I bossed him around with just giant belt and d-ring.
Things sorta stabilized when he returned to lane after a failed gank with 4 hogs boots1 and philo, but I had warmogs and ionians and I could outfarm him cos he was bad.
On the mogs vs hogs debate:
Both are investments in flat hp that leave you vulnerable for a while.
HoGs are obviously weaker late game, since you're gonna sell them.
Warmogs is a much bigger investment though.
Hogs function as a temporary patch to your hp that eventually pay for themselves.
Mogs is a more expensive and longer term investment.
3 hogs cost as much as mogs and give less hp than a mogs, as well as no hp regen.
If you're gonna buy hogs you should probably stop at one.
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Personally, I despise the gold5 trend on jarvan. At most i'd recommend one philo stone if you're laning, and that's max. Jarvan really doesn't need the mp5, and hp5 comes from mogs.
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I think there's a decent line of thinking that says you should say fuck mana regen in your spec and run a double philo opening. philo is so OP that I'm gonna make a thread about how OP it is right now.
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I don't even own Jarman, but he's free this week so I've been using your build opening cloth armor then boots then double philo. Then this game happened:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zv9oT.jpg)
I think I'm gonna buy him.
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yea, i mostly run double philo openings on him now. double philo is really crazy.
i still maintain that going straight to warmog's > any form of HoG stacking though.
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I went regen pendant into two philos on jungle jarvan, skipping razor, worked out well but you have to b early before your first philo.
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Okay, now I understand how OP jarman is. I'm usually bad with tanky dps characters because the expectation is that I can just run in and do whatever the fuck I want without dying. Usually that's not really how it works.
But with Jarman it is. Seriously, I just played him for the first time (my build being w/e the fuck I could afford when I went b) and I had no idea what I was doing and I didn't go 0-10. OP OP OP OP OP OP
also this is my 250 post, do i become a marine now?
edit: i did not become a marine, jarman let me down
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solo lane jarvan
super-duper-gold-efficent way
9/21/0
armor pen quints and reds
armor yellows or mana regen
mr/level blues or mana regen
regrowth->boot->philo->warmog->brut->ghostblade->atmas
ignite+flash
probably the most efficent way to build jarvan in a solo lane enviroment
tri-force BAD
hogs BAD
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brutalizer is too late to give you the surprise-buttsehks-100%-combo factor after warmog's usually. if you want to get it, you should do so before finishing warmog's IMO. I also advocate double philo since you can really chug through mana if you're spamming your shit and they're godly efficient. I also think there's no rush to finish ghostblade before atma's. Atma's is stupid efficient once you have a warmog's, so I typically just leave my brutalizer as a brutalizer until after FoN (since post Atma's I usually feel the need for more MRes), though it is of course situational.
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On May 24 2011 00:19 Mogwai wrote:
brutalizer is too late to give you the surprise-buttsehks-100%-combo factor after warmog's usually. if you want to get it, you should do so before finishing warmog's IMO. I also advocate double philo since you can really chug through mana if you're spamming your shit and they're godly efficient. I also think there's no rush to finish ghostblade before atma's. Atma's is stupid efficient once you have a warmog's, so I typically just leave my brutalizer as a brutalizer until after FoN (since post Atma's I usually feel the need for more MRes), though it is of course situational.
Whether jungling and getting a wriggles before warmogs or laning and getting a brutalizer before warmogs, I've never felt like I wasn't doing enough damage with just the wriggles/brutalizer before finishing my warmogs => atmas. Quite frankly, I generally do more damage over the course of a game with Jarvan than with Jax, which just doesn't seem right.
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yep, you don't need a big ticket offensive item before atma's. 1 midrange offensive item -> Force of Atmog's -> Triforce is just stupid strong.
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What's your current build Smash?
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regrowth + 1 pot in lanes that are hard to harass
double faerie charm + 3 pots in lanes that are easier to harass
double philostone -> boots (upgrade to Mercs when needed, but don't rush it, I usually wait until after Atma's without a specifc need for it) -> optional brutalizer (only if you think you can kill them with the extra damage) -> warmogs -> atma's -> FoN -> Triforce + Ghostblade (ghostblade first if you opened bruta, otherwise Triforce first with an option to go for Bloodthirster or IE over ghostblade if you can farm it up)
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Awesome, I'll try this out later today. I'll probably giggle like a schoolgirl after finishing atmogs, such a guilty pleasure.
Thanks!
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loco what will you take in 9 offence.... doubt that will be more useful as compared to 9 in utility. Esp on Jarvan.
Would like to knnow
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On May 24 2011 04:44 SHr3DD3r wrote:
loco what will you take in 9 offence.... doubt that will be more useful as compared to 9 in utility. Esp on Jarvan.
Would like to knnow
Most likely 3 crit, 1 whatever, 4 CDR, 1 MPen
Jarv's Passive deals significant magic damage.
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3 crit, 1 AP, 4 AS, 1 ArPen.
Personally I prefer 0/21/9 (1 in Buff Duration) atm with dodge seals and ghost/exhaust, but w/e. I've also tried out 21/0/9, but I've come to the conclusion that you get more out of the Defensive Tree than the Offensive Tree.
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On May 24 2011 04:47 Mogwai wrote:
3 crit, 1 AP, 4 AS, 1 ArPen.
Personally I prefer 0/21/9 (1 in Buff Duration) atm with dodge seals and ghost/exhaust, but w/e. I've also tried out 21/0/9, but I've come to the conclusion that you get more out of the Defensive Tree than the Offensive Tree.
Why do you consider 2 7 21 bad on jarman? I usually feel like utility is just too good on 80% of champs to not use it.
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1.brut after warmogs
if u look at the stats brut gives and compare it to the stats that jarvan needs its pretty much a no brainer
for armor pen since most jarvans run both armor pen reds and quints and his Q gives flat armor pen its more efficient to get flat since his Q is % reduction not % penatration(diffrence?40% reduction and 60 flat pen on a 100 armor target = 100 armor penatration,40%pen and 60 flat = 72 armor penatration,basically % reduction applies before flat while % penetration doesnt)
u want cdr as jarvan since like many bruzers u have gud base damage with mediocre scaling,and more cdr means more Q to flag combo~
basically brut gives all the offensive stats that jarvan wants so its never "late" to get it,of course the item build isnt set in stone and u should feel free to skip it,get it early,buy ghostblade in one go
2.why get 1 philo instead of 2?
k so alittle girl talk inc
"so there's this totally cute jeans at the gap that are like 50% off!,OH-MY-GOD *squel*,but like there white and like summer is over in like a few days,and white jeans in fall is so not totally fablous so ur only gonna get to wear it for like a couple of days and its gonna go in the closet and next spring Micheal Kors is gonna come out with a EVEN CUTER jean that u HAFTA buy so like ur not sure what to do k?,but like ur girlpal Caller told u something really smart which is sorta uncharecteristic of her since she's like a total bimbo,well not really even a bimbo cuz she's not that pretty but anyways she said "a jean ur only gonna wear once is probably the most expensive thing u can buy" and i like didn't really get what she meant but like THATS WHY U ONLY BUY 1 PHILO
seriously though even though philo is insanely cost efficient there's no need to buy more than 1 if u only need 1 to stay in lane etc,delaying warmogs is bad!
3.why triforce is bad
it's not cost efficient compared to ghostblade,thats it~
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On May 24 2011 10:31 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 04:47 Mogwai wrote:
3 crit, 1 AP, 4 AS, 1 ArPen.
Personally I prefer 0/21/9 (1 in Buff Duration) atm with dodge seals and ghost/exhaust, but w/e. I've also tried out 21/0/9, but I've come to the conclusion that you get more out of the Defensive Tree than the Offensive Tree. Why do you consider 2 7 21 bad on jarman? I usually feel like utility is just too good on 80% of champs to not use it.
I just don't think you can play the same sort of lane dominance game with 21 utility that you can play with 21 defense.
On May 24 2011 15:23 locodoco wrote:
1.brut after warmogs
if u look at the stats brut gives and compare it to the stats that jarvan needs its pretty much a no brainer
for armor pen since most jarvans run both armor pen reds and quints and his Q gives flat armor pen its more efficient to get flat since his Q is % reduction not % penatration(diffrence?40% reduction and 60 flat pen on a 100 armor target = 100 armor penatration,40%pen and 60 flat = 72 armor penatration,basically % reduction applies before flat while % penetration doesnt)
u want cdr as jarvan since like many bruzers u have gud base damage with mediocre scaling,and more cdr means more Q to flag combo~
basically brut gives all the offensive stats that jarvan wants so its never "late" to get it,of course the item build isnt set in stone and u should feel free to skip it,get it early,buy ghostblade in one go
2.why get 1 philo instead of 2?
k so alittle girl talk inc
"so there's this totally cute jeans at the gap that are like 50% off!,OH-MY-GOD *squel*,but like there white and like summer is over in like a few days,and white jeans in fall is so not totally fablous so ur only gonna get to wear it for like a couple of days and its gonna go in the closet and next spring Micheal Kors is gonna come out with a EVEN CUTER jean that u HAFTA buy so like ur not sure what to do k?,but like ur girlpal Caller told u something really smart which is sorta uncharecteristic of her since she's like a total bimbo,well not really even a bimbo cuz she's not that pretty but anyways she said "a jean ur only gonna wear once is probably the most expensive thing u can buy" and i like didn't really get what she meant but like THATS WHY U ONLY BUY 1 PHILO
seriously though even though philo is insanely cost efficient there's no need to buy more than 1 if u only need 1 to stay in lane etc,delaying warmogs is bad!
3.why triforce is bad
it's not cost efficient compared to ghostblade,thats it~
1. Flat pen is more effective the lower your opponent's armor is. It can be "late" to miss the point when it is most effective.
Sidenote: can you cut the crap with talking about game mechanics like you know something I don't? I know all the reasons brutalizer is good on him, I know why flat pen has positive synergy with Jarman and % pen has negative synergy with Jarman. I've been building brutalizer on Jarman since before you even knew he was worth playing.
2. You're just so adorable, everyone must fucking love you.
I buy 2 because the extra sustainability allows me to be more aggressive in lane by constantly spamming my nukes at people and I'm typically looking to spend bare minimum 8K gold before looking to sell philos which mean they have plenty of time to pay for themselves. This also means that when surprise teamfights show up, I'm never out of mana considering that I don't spec jack-shit in the way of other mana/mana regen and Jarman can chug through mana like a boss when he wants to. I've played this character so fucking much, I've been through no-warmog's phases, cloth -> boots -> straight warmog's phases, 1 philo stone -> boots -> warmog's phases, 2 philo stone -> boots -> brutalizer -> warmog's phases, and pretty much everything in between. Here's the thing, delaying your warmog's isn't the end of the world because the fact of the matter is that in a typical game 75+% of your warmog's charging is going to come from kills/assists in teamfights and not from sitting there farming 100 more CS in lane. Even in a passive game, you can pretty easily hit double philo @ 8:00 and warmogs before 20:00. Builds should be malleable and change from game to game and if you don't need to use your skills that much, go right ahead and build only one, I'm just saying that my typical build consists of double Philostone.
3. The only "wasted" stat on Triforce is the AP. Literally every other stat on it is very very good on Jarman. He has relatively low CDs to proc sheen, he likes movespeed and slow procs, he needs mana when he starts selling off his philosopher's stones, HP is always good, AS, AD, Crit, all always good. Does it do less sustained DPS when Ghostblade has it's active up? Yes. Does it perform significantly better all the rest of the time? Yes. There are pros and cons to both items, but the simple fact of the matter is that if I skipped over Brutalizer and went straight Warmog's -> Atma's -> FoN and can afford Triforce, I'm going to get triforce over ghostblade every time.
Loco, I don't wanna dislike you bro, but don't be a condescending asshole about a character that you've probably played in 5 games to someone who's play several hundred at roughly the same level of play. People don't ban Jarman when they see you on the other team, they do with me. Whether or not you're willing to accept it, I know a fuckton about this character and I would really appreciate it if you'd just give me a little respect. I'm willing to take your word on shit about ranged carries, the least you can do is the same for me when it comes to Jarman.
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EPT
