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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
I get the feeling you're just really good against pantheon playing udyrs not so good. I guess if you manage to tower dive super early that's a good idea especially if you get your jungler in on it. Udyr's definitely weakest before he gets his first item ~1.2-1.6k item and around level 6 or 7. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On May 18 2012 03:06 Slayer91 wrote: I don't see why pantheon should be particularly good against udyr although the passive can be annoying as fuck udyrs shield is great versus spears. I get the feeling you're just really good against pantheon playing udyrs not so good. I guess if you manage to tower dive super early that's a good idea especially if you get your jungler in on it. Udyr's definitely weakest before he gets his first item ~1.2-1.6k item and around level 6 or 7. Pantheon just has the right tools to dictate burst trades. He wins level 1 by attacking + spearing vs. turtle or spearing the balls off him vs. tiger. With the early advantage, you can actually zone Udyr for the initial push, which is something that most characters can't say. By the time Udyr's turtle shield can completely negate your spears, you can start to punish him trying to replenish his mana on creeps with your HSS from far enough away to avoid his burst or at least force him to fight amongst your creeps. I dunno, everyone seems to think udyr counters Pantheon, but when left to my own devices I always seem to be able to win the lane, even if it's just staying ahead on CS the whole time. | ||
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ishboh
United States954 Posts
On May 18 2012 01:17 Slayer91 wrote: This is kinda wrong wtf. Jax does mostly magic damage especially after early levels. I'd get: -->flat armour and mr blues yellows -->armour quints or mr quints if you have either Start boots+3 Rush hexdrinker, wits end, possibly a vamp sceptre if you really feel like it. I have a question regarding when people say stuff like this. Do you guys have like, a MILLION rune pages already set up? or is there some way to change your runes from the champ select that I don't know of? I just would think that he would only have one maybe two rune setups for his udyr. I know I only have one set per character, and if i want to change it up I have to use another characters runes which doesn't always work out well. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On May 18 2012 04:35 ishboh wrote: I have a question regarding when people say stuff like this. Do you guys have like, a MILLION rune pages already set up? or is there some way to change your runes from the champ select that I don't know of. I have 18 rune pages and have been considering buying up to 20. Rune Pages are very stronk. No one would buy rune pages if you could change them in champ select. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On May 18 2012 04:35 ishboh wrote: I have a question regarding when people say stuff like this. Do you guys have like, a MILLION rune pages already set up? or is there some way to change your runes from the champ select that I don't know of? I just would think that he would only have one maybe two rune setups for his udyr. I know I only have one set per character, and if i want to change it up I have to use another characters runes which doesn't always work out well. When I was around 1500 ranked I set up two rune pages for top one with AD/Armour/MR/lvl/Armour and one with AD/Armour/MR flat/MR quints and they've served me well all this time. It was actually arpen instead of AD because I played a lot of nasus at the time but it's AD now I've got more now but they are my most commonly used rune pages along with the almighty UDYR PHEONIX page with as/ms/armour/mr/lvl. Obviously I play stuff like irelia/udyr/nasus/warwick/shen who can build resists to win lane. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Logrus
United States228 Posts
My pages are even already very multi-purpose despite me labeling them with names of champs i most often use them on, but I could easily use another 10x pages before I'd feel like I have all my bases covered. I'm crap elo so take my input with a grain of salt but feel free to check out my rune pages on NA Spikard to see what I mean. | ||
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greggy
United Kingdom1483 Posts
I guess this is pretty game-specific but any help would still be appreciated. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
-Udyr lacks any form of burst his longest possible cd is 6 seconds meaning you want the fight to go long to make up for your lack of high cd abilities ultis especially. -This means stopping anyone from your team insta dying is generally your highest priority unless you can support another team member kill one of theirs. (4v4 is better than 5v5 for udyr - the less people in the teamfight the longer a teamfight lasts and the better you become) -Udyr is quite weak against burst damage because normally, if you burst a malph or amumu he gets his full combo off and focusing him is generally a bad idea. Udyrs survivability comes frmo W spamming which means you can get bursted like anyone else with the same items. If you get bursted you did nothing in the teamfight except soak damage for a few seconds but generally that's not too viable. Which follows into basic guidelines: -Attack the highest DPS target whenever possible (reducing the amount of damage that is available to kill you) -Avoid any situations where you will can take lots of damage without your team being able to immeditaley take advantage because you can't do much damage in 2 seconds which is enough time to take away half your hp. -Don't put yourself in a situation where you can be kited around because it means you're arent being effective and taking free damage. In teamfights it normally works like this: -Their team engages: If they catch one of your squishies the natural reaction should be to run over to their carries and stun them to prevent them getting in range and start putting the hurt on so they can't follow up. This is typical against a tank engage say malphite ult. Hitting malphite just gets your attack speed slowed and it's not malphite that the threat is If they engage on you or another tank you want to just stun and shield and run away, let your ranged guys counter the damage to their tanks and continue the poke war from there. If they have bruisers like irelia etc who are engaging you probably want to just stun them and back off, make them take free damage. If 1 bruiser engages and you run in 1v4 you'll just get bursted. This happens in the first situation but thereyour squishy is caught meaning youhave to risk something to save him and you have to remember if situation 1 you just want to stop their carry following up the cc and then get out of there. Once the engage is completed and nobody is immeditely going to die (maybe they'll die in a chase or during a more prolonged fight) you go back to the basics and try to hit their highest DPS targets. The way to know when you want to go on them or not is: If they're not attacking anyone but you, you should back off and stun some bruisers on the way. If they're a threat to the rest of your team, that's when you go on them and start killing them. It also means your team is more in range to help you and you're not too far out to get away should they all turn against you. If your team engages generally you want to follow up on whatever they engaged on but if they start aoe's like morgana ult you need to AVOID that damage. You won't do anything useful in 2 seconds but losing half your hp under morg ult will lose you teamfights. If you can't follow up just stun tanks to set up your ap and ad to damage them and go in later when the time is right. If you tower dive them this is a really bad situation for you because you can't chase down an ad carry becuase of all the towers meaning you want to minimize commiment and only stun the front lines and dive only if you are sure of the kill. If they dive you at most want to stun their divers but the main priority is dpsing the squishies who are trying to follow up the dive and chase them off thereby splitting their team. Sorry I couldn't make this more concise but udyr teamfighting is just really hard because he has no direct role in the teamfight. Also I wouldn't get aegis and chain mail before at least a recurve bow if not wits. Udyr is primarily a bruiser that means your DPS is your main threat and your tankiness is merely a tool to get in range. Your 1 secnod cc is useable but there are people who do way more in terms of peeling and can also initiate to use those tank stats. If your damage becomes irrelevant against their squishiest targets your usefullness drops drastically compared to any other jungler so you need to get a wits end at least and then later on if you're tanky enough a stinger or a trinity force. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
- jungle phoenix: boots start into HoG/wit's, and then follow with tank items (randuin's is very good, aegis not bad, I guess GA and FoN are 0K then), phage goes well with your lack of hard gap closer, either trinity for damage or mallet for tankiness/opponents like Nidalee. - lane tiger: boots start into HoG/phage, you probably want AD to make the best out of your tiger proc. Triforce more interesting than mallet if you're getting really fat/fed, otherwise just stick to items like aegis/randuin's. Wit's far less interesting with tiger, would you go something like hexdrinker or just rely on a negatron/aegis for your eventual MR needs/against stuff like Rumble? In any case, finish mercs asap, in the jungle before HoG even if you have to make a choice. What am I missing here? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Wits end is basically always good. Mercs you want to rush pretty fast also. I've experimented a lot recently and if my mid doesn't need blue I've been rushing mercs+dorans shield into wits into chain/cloth into trinity + frozen heart//ga or something. Don't rush hog on lane udyr either. You want basically wriggles//hexdrinker and tabi rush into trinity or wits end into frozenheart or ga. HoG is good if you want randuins or you can't win/lose lane so the gp/10 is nice. Never get mallet on udyr. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
CDR is slightly better on tiger udyr because it directly increases damage output on Q while pheonix udyr only benefits from W and E uptime until he levels tiger. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 09 2012 00:22 Slayer91 wrote: HoG isn't that good and philo is something you should almost always get if you're mid needs blue. If you get philo get hog or if you need randuins but consider mercs and or recurve bow first. You simply need some extra hp on udyr before your levels and turtle shield build it up. Wits end is basically always good. Mercs you want to rush pretty fast also. I've experimented a lot recently and if my mid doesn't need blue I've been rushing mercs+dorans shield into wits into chain/cloth into trinity + frozen heart//ga or something. Don't rush hog on lane udyr either. You want basically wriggles//hexdrinker and tabi rush into trinity or wits end into frozenheart or ga. HoG is good if you want randuins or you can't win/lose lane so the gp/10 is nice. Never get mallet on udyr. I really don't see the point of wriggles on Lane Udyr. You don't need THAT much lifesteal because turtle gives you a ton anyway. I've been going with either 2 dorans or phage rush depending on what I'm against and how the lane is going. I don't see when you ever need wriggles as tiger lane udyr. It was better when it was stupid efficient on all the stats it gave, but it's just not as ridiculously overbudget of an item anymore. Rather just buy the wards and be at my core items sooner, with no dead-end items. Hexdrinker is also really nice for tigerstance, especially as a first or second item. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Wriggles helps you win lane. You get lifesteal from turtle, you get lifesteal from wriggles. Both good. Armour, AD, a ward, lifesteal, all the stats you need to trade against physical damage laners. The only stat that is wasted on wriggles is lifesteal and even that isn't really bad at all. | ||
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