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On August 24 2012 11:54 Arisen wrote:
It's pretty hard to find any relevant information on shaco because most of the info out there is old and noone really plays shaco that much. Im training in normals to see if I can bring shaco to ranked play, and I'm having some success, but have a few questions.
1) If mid/bot (or top depending on the side) is pushed at level 2 right after you've finished red buff, do you attempt a gank? I know shaco has some of the best pre 6 ganks and most of the good shacos I've seen have lvl 2 ganked, but I can almost never do so effectively. The best I can do usually is use exhaust on a mid gank and force a flash and a back, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to use exhaust for my mid lane to get up 15 or so CS.
2) What to build after wriggles? I've seen some people say you need to build a bruatalizer ASAP, while some say you need to rush to either a bloodrazor, triforce, or Black Cleaver. I've been going bloodrazor for super fast barons usually followed up by a GA, but that's just because I picked something, I don't really know what's best.
when i do play shaco i like the phage into triforce build.
if you arent tanky you'll just die when shit gets going down
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That's what the GA is for. Gib something, die, pick something off.
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What is Shaco's gank combo. Every Shaco I've played against was just terrible so I have no idea how he is played well.
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On September 11 2012 06:17 cLutZ wrote:
What is Shaco's gank combo. Every Shaco I've played against was just terrible so I have no idea how he is played well.
Q in, drop a box box behind them, begin autoattacking them, use E only once they have a lead or you need to execute them.
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On September 11 2012 07:07 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 06:17 cLutZ wrote:
What is Shaco's gank combo. Every Shaco I've played against was just terrible so I have no idea how he is played well. Q in, drop a box box behind them, begin autoattacking them, use E only once they have a lead or you need to execute them.
it should also be noted later on if you go sheen/trinity force that you would obviously E a lot quicker for the second sheen proc allowing you to roughly 3 shot the enemy AD
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I picked up Shaco a couple weeks ago and have been having some good times with him since then. Does anybody know of a really good guide out there? What kind of runes are generally best?
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On February 06 2013 17:23 GolemMadness wrote:
I picked up Shaco a couple weeks ago and have been having some good times with him since then. Does anybody know of a really good guide out there? What kind of runes are generally best?
I generally go something like this for runes:
Flat AD Red
Armor Yellow
Scaling MR Blues
Apen Quints
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On February 08 2013 08:22 CarlMikael wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 17:23 GolemMadness wrote:
I picked up Shaco a couple weeks ago and have been having some good times with him since then. Does anybody know of a really good guide out there? What kind of runes are generally best? I generally go something like this for runes: Flat AD Red Armor Yellow Scaling MR Blues Apen Quints
AD quints, arpen reds if you want to do that. AD is more efficient than both AS and Arpen in that slot.
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What do you guys think about trinity force on Shaco? Spellblade just makes Q even more powerful, icy works with his E passive and overall the stats are very useful on him.
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Hi, very very nooby LoL player here. Is Shaco viable at pro play? i have seen some games, but hes never used, but he seems really cool.
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I like to Jungle Shaco sometimes. I copy the YoungMini Build from S2.
Machete5 start
Item Build Core: Wriggles/Hexdrinker/Zerker Greaves or Tabi/Mercs if I can afford/need. Core 3 items.
-I don't like phage or triforce as I get a slow from 2 shiv and Id rather have the MR +shield for when I dive into fights. Also you don't get nearly enough money from the Jungle to afford to complete triforce in a timely manner as you lack any durability from items/abilities.
Runes: AD Red, AR yellows, AS Blues (Flat or Scaling MR if scary burst mid) MS Quints. I like MS quints as it makes catching up to fleeing laners much easier and makes landing 2-shiv much easier. Personal preference.
Masteries: 21/9/0.
Summoners: Smite Ghost since deceive is better than flash
-With new aggro mechanic in the jungle boxes take aggro much more reliably in S3 than in S2. I like this build as it provides solid dmg throughout the midgame while allowing excellent drag control with razor or wriggles once you hit lvl 6. Usually grab some HP via giants belt or kindlegem OR my preference in the heavier resists in the form of GA.
Jungle Start:
-I like to start wraiths-->Red->Blue in gank every lane. 2 boxes at wraiths, 1st box at wraiths at 0:45. After those 2 the next 2-3 boxes into red. Save smite and go get Blue. Easy level 3 before some laners can get lvl 2. Time to Gank!
-Cant be stressed enough that you must take adv of his passive and backstab as much as possible. It will significantly increase your clear times for buffs. It makes a HUGE difference in HP lost as well as creating earlier lvl 3 timings to gank a lane when they have not hit lvl 2-3.
Role:
-Your job is to punish any lane who over extends, especially the sidelanes.
Tools to do this:
-Deceive allows you to take avoid common warding spots such as bot/top tribrush, drag, and especially mid lane when ganking. Deceive over walls next to the river, surprise enemy laner, snowball lane for your laner.
-Deceive's range is longer than it looks, you can hop over many walls that Trist or Corki would fail miserably at (ex bot lane "ridge wall" near to the bottom right of the tribrush.
-Note: Please, please don't take every kill, your solo laners or adc could really use the gold and they will use it more efficiently as Shaco's early-midgame power curve tapers off hard late game. You are there to murder enemy laners, make them scared/paranoid to extend or trade in lane for fear of surprise deceive crit+ box fear+ shiv slow. Proceed to snowball the lane. Deceive crit + shiv makes it really easy to steal kills from laners, dont take all kills.
-The thing with shaco is, you are melee, you are squishy, and you do not scale really well into the lategame. You are enormously powerful in the early to midgame with deceives broken stealth mechanic. Carrying a game usually means a >25 min game. If you go glass cannon melee, you melt after the initial deceive crit + few autos when enemy team turns on you. That is why a build much tankier into the late-midgame, using heavier resists as well as the Hexdrinker and GA proc to keep me alive through burst during teamfights.
-Your Ult: love it. use it to split push towers, use it to scout ahead, use it to dps, use it to duel, use it to tank objectives like drag/baron while you position yourself to backstab. The ult also has a tiny, tiny invulnerability frame right as you activate the clone. It is similar to fizz's E, except not nearly as long of invulnerability time. If you time it right you can avoid single target spells such as Olaf E, or my personal favaorite to try and dodge, Karthus Requiem :D
-If you fall behind (failed ganks, etc) you can become fairly useless as you need the levels/items to compete in damage and survivability.
-Im bad with boxes when ganking, but try to place them in the likely path laner is taking to get the fear off, but I rarely get the fear off tbh.
-A whole guide can be written about jack-in the box placement/use. Im not that great at it but heres something I use
-Sometimes I cheese the enemy jungler who I am almost certain will start blue (ex mummy, naut). Lay at box at your blue at 1:00ish. Then run to their wraiths and lay 2 or so boxes at 1:30/1:46 in wraith side brush. Use another box at your blue and get help from laners to take blue without smite. Run back to wraith brush with your boxes. Wait for enemy jungler to facecheck brush, if they do will take huge dmg at lvl 2 from box dps + fear, even without getting FB this can often force them to go back while I'm free to steal red.
-If the jungler doesnt appear through this brush then you know he is ganking that side's lane OR mid lane OR possibly invading your jungle (possible with nunu's, skarners etc). Let your team know and mess up their jungle by only taking the big creeps or ganking another lane.
Teamfights:
-Shaco has to wait for the initiate, wait for the big burst/cc to be blown by enemy and try to pick off low hp targets with deceive backstab crit and 2 shiv + Clone dps.
-Shaco can't go toe to toe duel with a tanky dps, but you can pick off that low support/adc/ap who has blow their big cooldowns. You can duel adcs to some extent with clone, but that relies on being tricky with deceiveclone to avoid skillshots/burst and dps them dowm
That is all I can think of at the moment. Hopefully this is coherent and helpful
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So are there any Dominion players that have an opinion on Shaco? Because, to be quite honest, I find him to be quite literally useless. His damage is incredibly sub-par and he brings little to nothing to team fights. Has anyone found him to be useful in Dominion aside from backdooring?
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New BotRK seems pretty damn sweet on Shaco so far.
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Does anyone else have a problem with Shaco where people will start whining when you pick him? I don't get it. I don't see this happen on any other champion except for like Heimerdinger.
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It's primarily because shaco singlehandedly wins or loses games. A good shaco terror's the other team into playing defensively while a bad shaco lets the other team run roughshod since shaco explodes if he's behind.
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Shaco also pretty much demands a different playstyle from your allies. It's not even a matter of what's good or not, it's just that people like to play in a set way. You are a squishy jungler, so that means someone else has to pick a tank or you have no frontline. This is actually the main reason I sometimes get annoyed at a shaco pick, because I usually play squishier top laners. You also are kinda bad at teamfights, so you need a team that can deal with you going off and split pushing most of the later game. Mind you, if you get enough ahead in the early game it would not matter, your team could a-move to victory, but why should your team think you're that good before the game?
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On May 13 2013 16:33 soverelgne wrote:
Shaco also pretty much demands a different playstyle from your allies. It's not even a matter of what's good or not, it's just that people like to play in a set way. You are a squishy jungler, so that means someone else has to pick a tank or you have no frontline. This is actually the main reason I sometimes get annoyed at a shaco pick, because I usually play squishier top laners. You also are kinda bad at teamfights, so you need a team that can deal with you going off and split pushing most of the later game. Mind you, if you get enough ahead in the early game it would not matter, your team could a-move to victory, but why should your team think you're that good before the game?
Ok, but lots of champions have trouble if they fall behind, and Fiddlesticks is a squishy jungler as well, and I've never once seen somebody complain about him. I'd maybe understand if I had bad stats with him or something, but I don't, so it's just really bizarre and annoying.
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On May 13 2013 15:25 Lmui wrote:
It's primarily because shaco singlehandedly wins or loses games. A good shaco terror's the other team into playing defensively while a bad shaco lets the other team run roughshod since shaco explodes if he's behind.
Yeah, pretty much this.
A bad shaco is like the most dead weight champion in the game.
A good Shaco gets all his lanes ahead, and has ridiculous map pressure all game long. Even good Shaco's sometimes get screwed in SoloQueue because people are too dumb to abuse his splitpush potential as Shaco. (and at lower levels, they dont take advantage of pressure the enemy team swings back to counter Shacos pushing)
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On May 14 2013 06:18 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 16:33 soverelgne wrote:
Shaco also pretty much demands a different playstyle from your allies. It's not even a matter of what's good or not, it's just that people like to play in a set way. You are a squishy jungler, so that means someone else has to pick a tank or you have no frontline. This is actually the main reason I sometimes get annoyed at a shaco pick, because I usually play squishier top laners. You also are kinda bad at teamfights, so you need a team that can deal with you going off and split pushing most of the later game. Mind you, if you get enough ahead in the early game it would not matter, your team could a-move to victory, but why should your team think you're that good before the game? Ok, but lots of champions have trouble if they fall behind, and Fiddlesticks is a squishy jungler as well, and I've never once seen somebody complain about him. I'd maybe understand if I had bad stats with him or something, but I don't, so it's just really bizarre and annoying.
Because those other champions can still do something if they fall behind and they're not as snowbally. Shaco is absolutely completely useless if he doesn't snowball. Heck, if he comes out even with the enemy jungler 9 times out of 10 the other guy will be more useful.
In your example, Fiddlesticks is also very squishy and calls for a different off lane pick, but he brings a TON more to the table than Shaco. Fiddle ult is deadly without items and he also has a 3 second fear and a 1+ second silence. Shaco has nothing but a mediocre slow and a very unreliable fear. His damage output is also not that good if he's not ahead.
Every single popular jungle brings a lot to the table without having to be fed.
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I'm currently spamming Shaco games and he seems a lot better than I thought previously. I haven't really touched him since S2 but he's feeling just as good if not better than I remember. Especially with the new Tiamat active, his pushing/farming ability seems to be greatly improved.
The current meta of faster towers, pushing, and aggressive junglers really seems to have helped shaco a lot. An early Tiamat gives him the wave clearing ability to keep up with other popular champs and less towers is just more room to do funny things. And now with most solo lanes starting ward+regen instead of the old boots+3, your initial ganks are absolute murder. I find that since Shaco is so good at bypassing wards, the ward start really only gives people the false confidence to extend just a bit too far. Especially top lane, decieving directly into the river bush from the blue side and ghosting at them pretty much guarantees that you'll be right next to them before they notice you.
Currently trying a lot of different builds/summoners/masteries but I'm really liking
Spirit Stone -> Mobility -> Lizard Elder ->Tiamat -> Whatever damage items. Usually Bruta/Zephyr. Smite/Ghost, 21-9-0
I like wriggles a lot but after playing around, I've decided that lifesteal is a luxury you can't afford and the regen from Lizard+Tiamat is a reasonable compromise. Lizard is too cost efficient in terms of raw damage per auto and the mana regen/cdr are integral to playing shaco properly, with boxes everywhere. The Tiamat helps your farming speed, wave clear, and most importantly, gives you more front loaded, scaling burst which is much needed since I don't get StaticShiv.
Need to try swapping Tiamat and Lizard on the item build, and taking Flash since I find it makes you basically uncatchable in late game split pushing. Any suggestions or ideas on items or otherwise? I find that tiamat/hydra and max cdr are basically required for late game as your primary role is wasting the enemy team's time. A 6.5 second invis, long range flash + 5 second, long range 30% slow + preemptive box breadcrumb trail is retardedly strong. Running cdr/level and flat cdr blue mixture to hit the last 10% cdr after lizard/bruta/zephyr. Ignite is good for jungle duels but I find most people tend to run from shaco 1v1 in the jungle anyway and in lane ganks, ignites are almost always used.
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EPT
