EPTI've been going Lizard -> mobility -> tiamat -> zephyr but someone recommended me Lizard -> mobility -> BotRK with tiamat later so I'll have to try that out some.
[Champion] Shaco - Page 18
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
I've been going Lizard -> mobility -> tiamat -> zephyr but someone recommended me Lizard -> mobility -> BotRK with tiamat later so I'll have to try that out some. | ||
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xPulsAr
Japan107 Posts
Shaco main here! Masteries: 21 points or more into offense is standard. I usually go with 26/1/3 (with 4% CDR, APpen, improved smite and the extra MS) - R (lv3) = 600 base AP dmg, E = 400+ AP dmg lategame, W = ~100 AP dmg/hit and shiv also deals AP dmg (100 x 1-4, depending on how many people are in range + double shiv dmg due to the guaranteed crit of Shaco's Q) - or 21/9/0 (save option), 21/0/9 (when I don't have any mp-dependend champ in my team / can take blue buff everytime or I go for heavy counter-jungling) Runes: Damage-oriented rune setups preferred: AD > AS > ADpen (AD preferred due to the guaranteed crits in early game) - I usually go for AD Quints / AD Marks / AR Yellows / 8x Flat CDR Blues 1x AD Blue (so you get 15 -> 16 AD) - But Shaco doesn't require AR Yellows (AS instead), you can go for MS Qunits or maybe MR/18 Blues, AS Blues, maybe even 1 crit rune if you pray to the RNG-gods etc. Items: I never, never, never in any possible scenario waste money on Elder Lizard / Spirit Stone (+ it will get nerfed anyway). I usually leave Machete unupgraded or go for Madreds (+1 vision ward) when I went with lategame-focused rune/masterie-setups or want to solo drake @lv6, which is always a good option when you fall behind early for whatever reason. BotRK is basically the alpha and omega of Shaco (AD, AS, LS and the item active is awesome on Shaco for so many reasons), so I basically rush it most of the times after t2 boots. My 2nd item usually is Shiv or Tiamat/Hydra for splitpushing - obviously Shaco is a single target dmgdealer so you need at least one of the 2 options for splitpushing. Lategame you want to itemize around getting 40% CDR so you have the luxury to Q in and Q out of a TF. If you play enough games with Shaco you will know how to itemize vs which champs depending on how far behind/ahead you are. Some fancy item combos: Infinity+SotD = cheap build to 4 shot carries if thats your style, BotRK+Hydra = 10% HP -> 100% HP with one by killing 1 creep wave, can't think of anything else funny right now. The most simple starting route with Shaco: Wraith -> Red -> Blue -> gank (if you are gold elo or below, invade enemy Red -> First Blood) I'll just leave it at that for the time being since I don't feel like writing a giant wall of text that no one cares about. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
I've been toying around with BotRK which I love on a lot of champs but it just feels so lackluster on Shaco for me. For the price, you could get a Tiamat+Stinger which if we compare, is 25 attack damage vs 40 attack damage 5% hp on hit vs faster pushing/farming 15% life steal vs 10% cdr 40% attack speed vs 40% attack speed +15 hp regen The active portion definitely favors BotRK but the damage is similar since tiamat scales with a 1:1 ratio and you rarely focus tanky people. The slow is nice but again, I find it redundant as rarely do I feel a little bit more slow would be the make or break point in my engagements. Also, the 10% cdr helps me hit max cdr pretty fast and cdr is a hard stat for shaco to itemize for. It just seems to me that the damage BotRK provides is pretty similar to tiamat/stinger while losing aoe clear and cdr. Also, stinger builds into Zephyr which is great addition later on due to the tenacity and 10% movement speed (both invaluable in split pushing). How do you itemize for max cdr in your builds? Especially since you omit lizard/stinger. How do you manage your mana? I find that since I have very high cdr and pretty much nonstop spam boxes as I'm moving, the mana regen from elder lizard is invaluable. And to reiterate, while life steal is nice, I personally find that the hp regen from tiamat/lizard is enough to keep me going through the jungle. (not to mention both of those items increases your jungle speed by huge amounts). Good point about SotD, I haven't really looked into that item yet, I'll do so soon! | ||
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xPulsAr
Japan107 Posts
Some random mana calculation stuff regarding box spam on high CDR: + Show Spoiler + Mid- to lategame Shaco has 700-1000 mp, 10-14 mp/5, W cost = 50-70 mp (since W is maxed last it will be a bit lower) with ~11 secs CD (assuming ~30% CDR reduction here), EL gives +7 mp/5. Also assuming that you want a keep a puffer of ~ 300 mp to cast skills in case of fights etc. and that you don't use Q and E often to run around / farm. -> Ergo, the mana regen is quite nice to have When you compare BotRK to Tiamat+Stinger keep in mind that when you go SS + t1 boots -> EL, I go madreds + mobility boots -> parts of BotRK so I get an earlier power spike. Theoretically I even get the vamp scepter for that little amount of sustain that Shaco needs as a minimum before your EL is finished. Also, based on my experience having the item active (slow and heal bait etc.) secured me a lot of kills / saved me a lot of times. It helps during ganks, when you want to stick to targets (which is basically any meele champs biggest weakness) etc. Keep in mind that Shaco's clone also gets all those fancy stats like 5% max health dmg. Depending on the game / length of laning phase you sometimes don't even need the pushing power that early. If you don't fall behind early on you should rather abuse Shaco's strength / timing windows during mid game or group up, force towers. Especially when someone in your team is fed. I heavyly dislike the idea of downgrading Shaco primarily to a split pusher. How do I itemize for CDR? Hard to say considering that Shaco can control all 4 buffs, so you somtimes end up with 20 bonus CDR, sometimes not. Thus focusing on CDR can always end up being a waste of gold. Investing into blue pots is also an option later on. I usually for go 4% CDR masteries + 6-7% CDR from runes, 10% from bruta and then bank on getting blue buff. But I have the option to add another 10% CDR item like stinger or/and buy blue pots etc. - maybe CDR boots or scaling CDR runes to add some weird options here. The huge advantage of you build is that you end up with 30% CDR quite early, while I run around with 10% - 20%, but I don't know what to think about it considering that you can secure blues for yourself. Overall I think focusing on getting 40% CDR on Shaco is a matter of playstyle and team comps. EDIT: This might be interesting in terms of playing Shaco as a split pusher only. Madreds, Berserker Greaves, Avarice Blade -> Shiv -> BotRK -> Hydra. WE vs IM: http://www.gosugamers.net/lol/news/23888-400-cs-shaco-rips-world-elite-apart-in-today-s-lpl | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
But the argument for bork makes sense | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On June 11 2013 08:20 xPulsAr wrote: EDIT: This might be interesting in terms of playing Shaco as a split pusher only. Madreds, Berserker Greaves, Avarice Blade -> Shiv -> BotRK -> Hydra. WE vs IM: http://www.gosugamers.net/lol/news/23888-400-cs-shaco-rips-world-elite-apart-in-today-s-lpl That's basically how I always try to play shaco, although it's been awhile since I've gotten botrk. I like starting Madreds > boots 1 > Avarice > boots 2 > shiv > hydra Although, usually after shiv + hydra I feel the need to get a tanky item so I'm not completely squishy, usually sunfire, to split push even faster. Then at that point I'd rather get Last Whisper since everybody else can get be so tanky at that point. Maybe I'll have to give BotRK a try though, but it's hard to justify delaying shiv + hydra since they make shaco a pushing nightmare. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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commandchild
38 Posts
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BallOOnz
Canada23 Posts
First item might be a dorans blade or the machette/5 pot depending on the enemy jungle and if i think i can duel them early and win. Junglers that i start dorans blade against are Lee Sin, Nautilus, and nocturne so far. Against a nunu u need a machette. I may or may not upgrade my machette depending on how the game going and if there is a Nunu. Core items are madreds->zerker greaves->hydra->shiv->ghostblade for the best split push. usually i go with aclarity on boots but homeguards are taken as needed. I also try to keep a mana pot or two in my inventory as well, until lategame, as shaco's mana costs are pretty high and sometimes i have to pop a mana pot for a gank or escape. I really hope they fix that... | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On July 13 2013 02:31 BallOOnz wrote: The way im currently building shaco (work in progress as i buy my last few runes) is a straight up attk speed asassain. Currently with masteries and runes im sitting at about 30%+ at lvl 1, with about 9 ad. Yes i am not running armor or mres runes. Pure offense is the way to with shaco. First item might be a dorans blade or the machette/5 pot depending on the enemy jungle and if i think i can duel them early and win. Junglers that i start dorans blade against are Lee Sin, Nautilus, and nocturne so far. Against a nunu u need a machette. I may or may not upgrade my machette depending on how the game going and if there is a Nunu. Core items are madreds->zerker greaves->hydra->shiv->ghostblade for the best split push. usually i go with aclarity on boots but homeguards are taken as needed. I also try to keep a mana pot or two in my inventory as well, until lategame, as shaco's mana costs are pretty high and sometimes i have to pop a mana pot for a gank or escape. I really hope they fix that... This sounds really bad, you definitely need armor yellows in the jungle and starting dblade is horrible. Can you qualify this post with some kind of rating? I'm only plat 5 but I don't even think this would work in gold, you would get destroyed by any kind of counterjungle and you wouldn't be able to gank because they can just turn and kill you with no armor/MR from runes. Anyway I've been playing more Shaco lately and what's been working really well for me is machete + 5 pots into madreds/mobo then either finish lantern or go straight to shiv/hydra. I've been liking finishing lantern more, a little lifesteal before you get hydra is nice because tiamat is the bigger item and you want to build that component first, leaving you without lifesteal for a long time, and the wards are really nice because you're primarily going to be splitpushing and controlling dragon. Shiv is really strong and I personally feel like Hydra is better than BotRK when you have such good crit. After lantern/mobo/shiv/hydra you want situational defensive items like Randuin's/Wits/Sunfire/Banshee's/Warmogs/IBG/FH/GA. IBG is kinda overkill on the proc and FH is usually just strictly better but there are times when your only goal will be to be invisible burst CC on their ADC. 21/9/0 Smite/Ignite I've been debating whether or not MS quints are worth it and I'm pretty sure they are, still running my noc page with combination arp/as quints and reds, armor yellows and mr/lv blues. I'm gonna switch over to simple MS/AD/Armor/Scaling MR. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
I use to always grab sunfire with the giants belt because the armor was nice and the extra pushing is nice as well, although the past couple games I've played with Shaco I actually grabbed Warmogs just because all that extra health + hp regen is really noticeable. Pretty sure I run standard ADC runes when I jungle with him. (AD Reds & Quints, armor yellows, mr blues) just because I like having the higher early game damage especially combied with your guaranteed crit when you Q in for ganks. Been a long time since I've played him with MS quints though, so can't really comment on them. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
On July 14 2013 23:27 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: This sounds really bad, you definitely need armor yellows in the jungle and starting dblade is horrible. Can you qualify this post with some kind of rating? I'm only plat 5 but I don't even think this would work in gold, you would get destroyed by any kind of counterjungle and you wouldn't be able to gank because they can just turn and kill you with no armor/MR from runes. Anyway I've been playing more Shaco lately and what's been working really well for me is machete + 5 pots into madreds/mobo then either finish lantern or go straight to shiv/hydra. I've been liking finishing lantern more, a little lifesteal before you get hydra is nice because tiamat is the bigger item and you want to build that component first, leaving you without lifesteal for a long time, and the wards are really nice because you're primarily going to be splitpushing and controlling dragon. Shiv is really strong and I personally feel like Hydra is better than BotRK when you have such good crit. After lantern/mobo/shiv/hydra you want situational defensive items like Randuin's/Wits/Sunfire/Banshee's/Warmogs/IBG/FH/GA. IBG is kinda overkill on the proc and FH is usually just strictly better but there are times when your only goal will be to be invisible burst CC on their ADC. 21/9/0 Smite/Ignite I've been debating whether or not MS quints are worth it and I'm pretty sure they are, still running my noc page with combination arp/as quints and reds, armor yellows and mr/lv blues. I'm gonna switch over to simple MS/AD/Armor/Scaling MR. Most high lvl koreans go dorans start full as/ms or red ad/as/ms. Qdolla (don't know actual name) diamond 1 na shaco main goes ad red/as/ms 21-9. His normal build is machete 5> as boots and madred on 1st back> botrk> shiv> hydra or tank item. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/qmoneyakaqdollas He streams often, but also has tons of vods to filter through. Its hard to find vods of the koreans. There was one insec game where he was vsing a shaco. Both started dorans and shaco killed him at blue. They do the lvl 3 cheese. Have your bot lane kill buff with 4 boxes and top help you at other buff. Lvl 3 @ 2ish mins and invade the other buff or gank a lvl 1 lane. | ||
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BallOOnz
Canada23 Posts
On July 14 2013 23:27 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: This sounds really bad, you definitely need armor yellows in the jungle and starting dblade is horrible. Can you qualify this post with some kind of rating? I'm only plat 5 but I don't even think this would work in gold, you would get destroyed by any kind of counterjungle and you wouldn't be able to gank because they can just turn and kill you with no armor/MR from runes. Anyway I've been playing more Shaco lately and what's been working really well for me is machete + 5 pots into madreds/mobo then either finish lantern or go straight to shiv/hydra. I've been liking finishing lantern more, a little lifesteal before you get hydra is nice because tiamat is the bigger item and you want to build that component first, leaving you without lifesteal for a long time, and the wards are really nice because you're primarily going to be splitpushing and controlling dragon. Shiv is really strong and I personally feel like Hydra is better than BotRK when you have such good crit. After lantern/mobo/shiv/hydra you want situational defensive items like Randuin's/Wits/Sunfire/Banshee's/Warmogs/IBG/FH/GA. IBG is kinda overkill on the proc and FH is usually just strictly better but there are times when your only goal will be to be invisible burst CC on their ADC. 21/9/0 Smite/Ignite I've been debating whether or not MS quints are worth it and I'm pretty sure they are, still running my noc page with combination arp/as quints and reds, armor yellows and mr/lv blues. I'm gonna switch over to simple MS/AD/Armor/Scaling MR. To be fair im bronze 3 as of this writing. I started a few months ago and after getting 5 afk's in a row with my placement games im a little sour with ranked right now. I wish the ladder was more like sc2 but anyways this isn't about that. I will start by saying that i run full attack speed on shaco because he is squishy as hell already, i play him like a full on assassain. You dont really need the armor for jungle as your box tanks most of the damage. The attk speed runes/masteries also help u clear faster. Early game that extra attack speed procs your slow so fast that people HAVE to flash to get away. Also i never really get counter jungled on shaco as I usually get the kill on them at their red and then i take ALL of their camps. Shaco can clear so fast if you know what you are doing. i'll add more later, just woke up and I cant get my thoughts straight. | ||
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
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nath
United States1788 Posts
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